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  1. #76
    roadie
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    Thanks plienberg for the links. Very nice summary.

    To be fair, the ECDM projects are not just about one trail, but also completing Ridge Trail gaps, trails to parking area, restoring damaged trails to improve water quality ,and preserve additional open space.

    The Sierra Azul breakdown is about what I'd expect.
    22: Cathedral Oaks. $6.7M
    23: Mt Umunhum peak. $28M
    24: Rancho de Guadalupe & trails. $10M
    25: Loma Prieta trails. $8M

    And like you said, this expense will be over a couple decades, hopefully less to get it sooner.
    this is what you'd expect?

    24 Sierra Azul: Rancho de Guadalupe Family Recreation
    Open Rancho de Guadalupe to public access. Develop accessible multi-use trails with amenities such as parking and family recreation. Restore habitat for rare species. Protect cultural and natural resources. $10,078,000

    Protect cultural and natural resources? am i confusing this with the supposed waste rock dump site? former future home of planned development that couldn't? myself, i want a better proposal when you're asking for $10,078,000. midpen has had time to prepare, i want a better picture of the proposals, a real timeline, and an actual breakdown the cost. this is lazy. midpen started at a big number and divided it across the domain.. pfft, $10,078,000..

  2. #77
    Slowest Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by modbog View Post
    this is what you'd expect?

    Protect cultural and natural resources? am i confusing this with the supposed waste rock dump site? former future home of planned development that couldn't? myself, i want a better proposal when you're asking for $10,078,000. midpen has had time to prepare, i want a better picture of the proposals, a real timeline, and an actual breakdown the cost. this is lazy. midpen started at a big number and divided it across the domain.. pfft, $10,078,000..
    Actually, yes, it's what I'd expect. Maybe I've lived in the Bay area too long, where even a little house cost $1M these days. Their numbers are on the high side. But that level of full funding will allow great progress to be made.

    I've seen numerous attempts to improve the Mt. Umunhum peak and the expenses are quite large. Just to demolish the buildings, repave the road, and built a small visitor center is $11M. Our representative Mike Honda tried to get us a few $M from the fed to help, but it was squeezed out of the federal budget at the last minute. (More here.)

    Many new trails and permits are going to be needed in the Loma Prieta region. It's almost like opening a new park.

    Same with Rancho de Guadalupe, which is in the middle of some endangered species (frogs?) that improvements need to work around, perhaps with bridges and other structures. Protecting cultural and natural resources is MidPen's main charter that is hard for us to understand sometimes. But the public that gives MidPen their money wants the green hills to be "all natural". And as I said, MidPen takes their stewardship seriously as their prime duty.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  3. #78
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    I'm with Modbog. If they want that kind of coin they should actually put a little bit of effort into the proposal. Something beyond the level of a 5th grade science project would go a long way. For all we know they're going to spend all the money on the parking lots and bathrooms and they're just going to unlock a couple gates to fireroads as "increasing access".

  4. #79
    roadie
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    Same with Rancho de Guadalupe, which is in the middle of some endangered species (frogs?) that improvements need to work around, perhaps with bridges and other structures. Protecting cultural and natural resources is MidPen's main charter that is hard for us to understand sometimes. But the public that gives MidPen their money wants the green hills to be "all natural". And as I said, MidPen takes their stewardship seriously as their prime duty.
    i'm all for the western pond turtle (from what i understood most of the frogs probably live in Guadalupe creek across Hicks?), but how is that money is going to help them exactly? bridge for what? what improvements exactly? a trail network already exists there. grade the lot, open the gate, plop down a crapper. right now it's just a dead end where teenagers go to screw in their cars and smoke pot. i'm not trying to be overly facetious, but come on. they might put in a deck to keep people from disturbing the edge of the small pond and an informational placard?

    give me real info, not fluff. acquired in 1995, soil tested in 2010. stewards? pfft. barely managing.. /rant

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by modbog View Post
    i'm all for the western pond turtle (from what i understood most of the frogs probably live in Guadalupe creek across Hicks?), but how is that money is going to help them exactly? bridge for what? what improvements exactly? a trail network already exists there. grade the lot, open the gate, plop down a crapper. right now it's just a dead end where teenagers go to screw in their cars and smoke pot. i'm not trying to be overly facetious, but come on. they might put in a deck to keep people from disturbing the edge of the small pond and an informational placard?

    give me real info, not fluff. acquired in 1995, soil tested in 2010. stewards? pfft. barely managing.. /rant
    Those level of details are best found on MidPen's site. Some have found such details buried in the meeting agendas. Or you can just send an email and ask MidPen how that cost estimate is broken down.

    You say a trail network already exists there. You know more than me. Where do these trails lead to? Around the mountain or up to Woods trail? They mention developing trails so I was thinking mostly new. Still, whatever is there will likely need restoration and improvements to current standards.

    The full description of the this project is as follows.

    Sierra Azul: Rancho de Guadalupe Family Recreation and Interpretive Projects
    Open RDG to public access. Develop accessible multi-use trails with amenities such as parking, family recreation, interpretive/educational services. Partner to develop family camping. Enhance habitat for rare species. Protect cultural and natural resources using traditional Native American stewardship practices.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  6. #81
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    CRLF's on Dogmeat???

    Quote Originally Posted by modbog View Post
    i'm all for the western pond turtle (from what i understood most of the frogs probably live in Guadalupe creek across Hicks?), but how is that money is going to help them exactly? bridge for what? what improvements exactly? a trail network already exists there. grade the lot, open the gate, plop down a crapper. right now it's just a dead end where teenagers go to screw in their cars and smoke pot. i'm not trying to be overly facetious, but come on. they might put in a deck to keep people from disturbing the edge of the small pond and an informational placard?

    give me real info, not fluff. acquired in 1995, soil tested in 2010. stewards? pfft. barely managing.. /rant
    Yes really, on a rainy day they could possibly be crossing over from one creek to the next. They're hard to see but the brown lines denoting the range of the California Red Legged Frog reaches nearly to the top of all the ridges in Sierra Azul and as such; combined with the Rainbow Trout and Steelhead habitats make nearly the entire Rancho de Guadalupe property an area of special concern. 2 Western Pond Turtle habitats also.



    Given how the Mindego thing went for MTBing I doubt that we'll see much access to Rancho de Guadalupe.

    Anybody notice on that last link I posted how much pot farm activity is continuing in Sierra Azul? Almost all of that is on the RdG portion.
    The views and opinions expressed here are those of the author and do not represent any policy of the CA Dept. of Parks & Rec.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    Those level of details are best found on MidPen's site. Some have found such details buried in the meeting agendas. Or you can just send an email and ask MidPen how that cost estimate is broken down.

    You say a trail network already exists there. You know more than me. Where do these trails lead to? Around the mountain or up to Woods trail? They mention developing trails so I was thinking mostly new. Still, whatever is there will likely need restoration and improvements to current standards.

    The full description of the this project is as follows.

    Sierra Azul: Rancho de Guadalupe Family Recreation and Interpretive Projects
    Open RDG to public access. Develop accessible multi-use trails with amenities such as parking, family recreation, interpretive/educational services. Partner to develop family camping. Enhance habitat for rare species. Protect cultural and natural resources using traditional Native American stewardship practices.
    There are a bunch of fireroads and small trails up and around reynolds and pheasant roads that lead to cherry springs pond. There aren't any "legally" built trails from that area up to el sombroso so hopefully that's what they're planning on. I can easily seem them 5 years down the road from now claiming victory with just building a parking lot down off hicks, opening a couple of the gates, and trimming brush back. All for a cool $10mil.

  8. #83
    It's about showing up.
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    Many biases rate based in a lack of understanding what is possible on a bike by sensible people. They cannot conceive how anyone could ride at night, climb a 20% grade......
    I don't rattle.

  9. #84
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    Midpen's Bond Issue - Can / Should We Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    Many biases rate based in a lack of understanding what is possible on a bike by sensible people. They cannot conceive how anyone could ride at night, climb a 20% grade......
    Board is a bunch of mostly white baby boomers in loose fit dockers. Doubt they could make it up a trail without a horse.

  10. #85
    roadie
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    Those level of details are best found on MidPen's site. Some have found such details buried in the meeting agendas. Or you can just send an email and ask MidPen how that cost estimate is broken down.
    option a is look for buried stuff in meeting agendas? (that's kinda of a warning sign, no?) option b is for the public to request a proposal from midpen via email? (also not really efficient) why isn't even basic information readily accessible? (i guess a few vague noncommittal sentences is not my definition of basic, and buried in pdfs inconsistently linked is not my definition of readily accessible)

    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Yes really, on a rainy day they could possibly be crossing over from one creek to the next. They're hard to see but the brown lines denoting the range of the California Red Legged Frog reaches nearly to the top of all the ridges in Sierra Azul and as such; combined with the Rainbow Trout and Steelhead habitats make nearly the entire Rancho de Guadalupe property an area of special concern. 2 Western Pond Turtle habitats also.

    moot. the trail is a distance away from those seasonal creeks and outside the boundaries on that map. the only portion that dips near is at the far (southern) end. (i'm referring to the loop around the pond and outcropping, not the dogleg back to the parcel on Pheasant.



    Pheasant Rd, public, goes right through that habitat on the northwestern edge. Hicks Rd, also public and with higher traffic, skirts the northeast side and goes right through the same boundaries - not through rather inside of and parallel with. how are anadromous fish swimming a Guadalupe bookended by dump and dam going to be affected by opening the gate? cultural / historical sensitive areas? (mine shafts? tailings?)


  11. #86
    middle ring single track
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    Quote Originally Posted by modbog View Post
    moot. the trail is a distance away from those seasonal creeks and outside the boundaries on that map. the only portion that dips near is at the far (southern) end. (i'm referring to the loop around the pond and outcropping, not the dogleg back to the parcel on Pheasant.
    Maybe not so moot; the Mindego Hill access road that was closed to bikes was well outside the normal range of the SFGS; it doesn't take much for MidPen to shutter access.

    BTW on that map those lines represent what were once roads; the may have disintegrated down to trails, it was like OMG 45 years ago I last traipsed across those specific lands.

    And those are not entirely "seasonal" streams; they have pools of water (enough to sustain trout) quite high up and is probably why this area is so popular with the dope growers.

    Very few mine shafts south of Hicks, most of the mines were on the north side of Guadalupe Creek. I'm really curious what the "Cultural Resources" at RdG are; Native American? Mining era??
    The views and opinions expressed here are those of the author and do not represent any policy of the CA Dept. of Parks & Rec.

  12. #87
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    I just have one word that MidPen doesn't - accountability. I didn't see them spending on what's matter for me. Shift in focus? I'll agree once I see it. The limitations they are imposing on bike trail users are artificial.
    With bond money not going for salaries, please. First overblown budget covers unchallanged/lobbied tenders. Sure house costs 1mil around here but half of it is land and public already paid for it.
    Second, MidPen always can purpose bond measures on the projects which are aldready part of the budget. Even proponents here saying it will helps getting old things faster, not more new things. So once money in, remainder of budget can be spent on rangers and trucks fleet.
    I used to run tubes like you are, but then I got thorn in my wheel.

  13. #88
    roadie
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    BTW on that map those lines represent what were once roads; the may have disintegrated down to trails, it was like OMG 45 years ago I last traipsed across those specific lands.
    those are still "roads" and some are somewhat recently graded -- more recently then your last visit

    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Very few mine shafts south of Hicks, most of the mines were on the north side of Guadalupe Creek. I'm really curious what the "Cultural Resources" at RdG are; Native American? Mining era??


    from pg 15:

    http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/sanfra...April_2012.pdf

  14. #89
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    ^^ Easy, bog.

    You're trying to apply logic to an insanity-based organization!
    Why?

    Because we like the taste of freedom; because we like the smell of danger. ~ E. Abbey

  15. #90
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    Half of the new money would be spent on that 'Roller Coaster' I keep talking about. The other half would be spent on sucking every stinking inch of fun out of it.

  16. #91
    We need more wax
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    Has anything changed over the past couple of months to warrant the SLMTB to endorse Measure AA?

    Silicon Valley Mountain Bikers Endorses Measure AA! | Silicon Valley Mountain Bikers
    "People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?" - Rodney King

  17. #92
    Let go lightly
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    Well I'm on the board of SVMTB so I'm biased.

    I came to the Vision process skeptical about what riders would get out of the process. I went to a number of meetings and found that MidPen staff and management listened to our input and although we didn't get everything we would like to see (who ever does?) riders will get more trails, more interconnecting trails and likely some bike specific trails at Skeggs.

    Even if MTB riders are skeptical about MidPen and our access to trails what is the benefit of not supporting the bond? By voting no you would be saying you don't want more trails or more protected areas above (and in) the Valley. What's to be gained by that?

    Thanks,

    Alex Anderson
    Support trails, support access. Join IMBA and your local advocates - SVMTB. www.svmtb.org

  18. #93
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    At least we (SVMTB) are not alone.

    post

  19. #94
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    Wow, what a list. Who's against the measure, other than some people in this thread?

  20. #95
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    Sean- And I wonder how many of them are: 1. mountain bikers or 2. bothered by the fact that is costs millions of dollars to maybe/possibly/eventually open up a trail ("Hey, it's not MY money!").

    I think I'm okay being in the minority on this one! Please cancel my subscription to the resurrection of Midpen.
    Last edited by dirtvert; 05-16-2014 at 11:04 AM.
    Why?

    Because we like the taste of freedom; because we like the smell of danger. ~ E. Abbey

  21. #96
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    Has midpen released a document signed by the board that says they are going to use this money to build trails and not just horde land? They keep saying they are but until I see it in writing I just don't believe them. I want to see a breakdown of how every dollar is spent.

  22. #97
    roadie
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    Quote Originally Posted by CruzSS View Post
    . . . By voting no you would be saying you don't want more trails or more protected areas above (and in) the Valley. What's to be gained by that?

    Thanks,

    Alex Anderson
    False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  23. #98
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    I do understand the past frustration with certain land managers :-) However, the SVMTB BOD believes it is better to be a part of the process, that's why we participated in the developed of the Open Space 25 priorities. If you read the first sentence of the measure, it says to provide more opportunities for hiking and biking. I think it's important for SVMTB to be involved and maintain a professional working relationship.

    For more information: post

    Sean

  24. #99
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    Midpen's Bond Issue - Can / Should We Help?

    Hope you like increased ranger enforcement, like we just got in Marin.

  25. #100
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    As a matter of fact, I DO like increased ranger enforcement. I get annoyed by scofflaws bombing down shared trails. Particular targets of my ire are scofflaws who bomb down shared trails, then blame their victims because the victims should have realized that scofflaws ride on that particular trail.

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