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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callender View Post
    ^ You're gonna hurt yourself if you keep trying to stretch your junk out on the ruler..
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantastic79 View Post
    I think I saw the ranger lady on Virginia Mill trail. She was waaaay deep in the park and I'm not sure how she got there. Didn't see a truck anywhere. It was odd that she was just standing there with an SLR. I don't think she had a radar gun.
    I've talked to ranger lady several times. She's a hardcore hiker and back country adventurer. She's a pretty cool person. Not hostile to mountain bikers at all.

  3. #103
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    I've seen Dora the Explorer on Southleaf and deep Lawrence Creek with radar in hand, no truck near by. Seems nice, probably polite and smile while she writes you up.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob-o View Post
    I've seen Dora the Explorer on Southleaf and deep Lawrence Creek with radar in hand, no truck near by. Seems nice, probably polite and smile while she writes you up.
    Most of these new rangers don't venture out more than 10 feet from their truck. That's good and bad. A lot just sit inside ze truck.

    I've met a few Santa Clara County parks foresters and they seem to be a different breed. Really active folks, understaffed and looking out for the entire forest. They said the Midpen rangers just range the trails and fire roads.

    I don't think Midpen ranger would ever touch a shovel. I've seen a couple clear a tree.
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  5. #105
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    But wouldn't it be awesome to be a mountain bike ranger with MidPen or other? Paid to ride 8 hours a day, while doing really useful patrol work. Maybe a retirement job for me in the future.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    But wouldn't it be awesome to be a mountain bike ranger with MidPen or other? Paid to ride 8 hours a day, while doing really useful patrol work. Maybe a retirement job for me in the future.
    Twust me bwo, no. First, you have to ride Midpen all the time. Then you have to work for people who hate mountain bikes and you have to issue $400 tickets to good folks.

    I knew about 4 of them rangers who really rode. They're all gone now it seems.
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  7. #107
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    Midpen on a ticketing rampage again

    Iíve spoken with LEOs who wear a trail patrol hat. They have a process to get away from the vehicle but it is involved.

    Edit to add: They have a radio and other electronics tie to the vehicle. Its a lifeline, for real threats (not MTB). They can get away from patrolling in the vehicle but itís a pain.


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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Twust me bwo, no. First, you have to ride Midpen all the time. Then you have to work for people who hate mountain bikes and you have to issue $400 tickets to good folks.

    I knew about 4 of them rangers who really rode. They're all gone now it seems.
    And I was really looking forward to all the training.

    Last edited by 5k bike 50cent legs; 10-27-2017 at 04:09 PM.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    For sure man. I travel the country and the world and Iíve come to realize that Midpen treats bikers like cockroaches here.
    Do not despair; it's been said that cockroaches will inherit the earth.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    I love these threads. Thank you MTBR for keeping all the fat grandpas on $5K bikes off the trails for fear of getting fined $400.
    how dare you suggest that I ride a $5k bicycle?! I'd sooner walk than ride that kind of crap.

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    If someone were to create a Strava hook to identify speed trap locations would it get utilized?

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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    If someone were to create a Strava hook to identify speed trap locations would it get utilized?

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    I suspect MidPen already uses Strava to figure out where to best locate their speed traps.
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Twust me bwo, no. First, you have to ride Midpen all the time. Then you have to work for people who hate mountain bikes and you have to issue $400 tickets to good folks.

    I knew about 4 of them rangers who really rode. They're all gone now it seems.
    So how fast over 15 mph did they say you were going?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by riderup View Post
    how dare you suggest that I ride a $5k bicycle?! I'd sooner walk than ride that kind of crap.
    That is their exact goal. Suckers voted for midpen funding so now they will answer to no one for the foreseeable future.

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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by R38 View Post
    So how fast over 15 mph did they say you were going?
    So I haven't had a ticket in about 12 years but I do feel like a criminal every time I ride Midpen.

    At 16-18 mph, you'll get stopped and get a lecture and attitude download. Beyond that, ticket city depending on how they feel.

    I've tested hundreds of bike lights and its very difficult with Fremont Older in my backyard. A lot of these new ranger are the type:

    "Sunset today is 6:32 pm so I'll cite you if you're not out of the park by 7:02.
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  16. #116
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    Remember these people are your elected representatives. Complaining here doesn't help much. Give em hell. And show up to the Sanborn meetings

    2 Important Meetings for Silicon Valley Mountain Bikers 11/1 & 11/7


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  17. #117
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    This thread really makes me not want to buy new full suspension bikes in the future because there are less and less places in bay area to really ride the bike how it was meant to be ridden.

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    Alright I need to clear a few things up about this. First I'm not advocating writing tickets is a good or bad thing but you all should know that they DO NOT generate revenue for the parks system as that would be illegal. The parks system gets maybe 2% of the fine from the ticket and that is true for all law enforcement agencies in the state.

    For anyone who has got a radar or lidar ticket. PM me and ill give you a detailed court testimony on how to beat it. I am POST trained on both and they are easy to fight if you know what to say and the questions to ask. Park rangers have no clue on how to "properly" use those units and the right steps you need to take before actually using the radar. Its not as simple as just pointing the gun and looking at the speed it says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    Your argument is pretty solid actually. For radar citations on public roads, the law enforcement agency is required to complete a "speed survey". A speed survey is when they go out and radar every vehicle coming down that road over a set period of time and then find the average speed that is driven in that area. If the average speed is 40 mph, they'd never win a court case written for 40 mph even if the speed limit is posted as 30 mph. Furthermore, California operates under trees "basic speed law" principle in which the officer/sheriff/ranger should have to prove that whatever speed you were riding was unsafe for the present conditions. Based on what you wrote here, I don't think that would be possible so the judge reducing the fine was improper as the case should have been dismissed.
    This in not 100% true. Most roads require a speed survey every 5 to 7 years there are several exemptions. My guess is since these roads are not "official" county roads not survey is needed.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post

    Does it go on the driving record??? Answer is NO for Midpen and most trail tickets. Public road tickets written by the sherrif... usually yes.
    No. This is simply not true.

    See CVC 1803 (b)

    ďThe following violations are not required to be reported Ö Violations for which a person was cited as a pedestrian or while operating a bicycle or a motorized scooter.Ē

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    This thread really makes me not want to buy new full suspension bikes in the future because there are less and less places in bay area to really ride the bike how it was meant to be ridden.
    This is truly one of the heartbreaking things. Our sport has advanced so much in the last 20 years. Bikes are better, skills and techniques have evolved now and we have a much higher awareness about other trail users, health benefits, mental health importance.

    We have progressed from a bunch of kids just looking to play in the woods to a bunch of dads and moms... lawyers, doctors, engineers, blue-collar folks, business owners and ceo's looking to improve our lives out there.

    YET MIDPEN CONTINUES TO IGNORE ALL THIS. They want to treat us like outcasts and criminals.

    I have 5 amazing bikes in the garage and shelves of insanely good bike lights and there's no Midpen trail available to use them. And they've bought up all the land around me in the South Bay. My road bike is the only thing entertaining on the legal trails and legal speed limits.

    I can cope, that's what we do. But t's ok to express outrage against Midpen Atrocities Against Mountain Bikers. It's a lot worse than 25 years ago when I started here. And it's about to get a whole lot worse.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustedone View Post
    No. This is simply not true.

    See CVC 1803 (b)

    ďThe following violations are not required to be reported Ö Violations for which a person was cited as a pedestrian or while operating a bicycle or a motorized scooter.Ē
    That's fine... and welcome news. I get mixed reports from friends. California only or nationwide?
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    Alright I need to clear a few things up about this. First I'm not advocating writing tickets is a good or bad thing but you all should know that they DO NOT generate revenue for the parks system as that would be illegal. The parks system gets maybe 2% of the fine from the ticket and that is true for all law enforcement agencies in the state.

    For anyone who has got a radar or lidar ticket. PM me and ill give you a detailed court testimony on how to beat it. I am POST trained on both and they are easy to fight if you know what to say and the questions to ask. Park rangers have no clue on how to "properly" use those units and the right steps you need to take before actually using the radar. Its not as simple as just pointing the gun and looking at the speed it says.
    FYI the Mid Pen Rangers are required to go to a Law Enforcement Academy at Santa Rosa: So your argument that they have no clue how to properly use them may not be true.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by R38 View Post
    FYI the Mid Pen Rangers are required to go to a Law Enforcement Academy at Santa Rosa: So your argument that they have no clue how to properly use them may not be true.
    You do not learn how to use radar in any of the POST academies. Its a 16 hour class that the CHP puts on. Yes they are LEO's and have all authority given to peace officers. When your job is not primarily traffic enforcement its very easy to fight a radar ticket. Again its not just pointing the radar gun and looking at the speed it gives you. You first have to to hear the pitch of the Doppler tones, look at the object moving, visually estimate the speed ( you have to be with in 5 mph on your estimation) for 3 to 5 seconds then at that point you can look at your radar gun.

    You can also ask for their POST training records for the RADAR class and proof of there 75 visual estimations to be certified by there department. To further fight the ticket you can ask for there pre and post use tuning fork inspection records to make sure the unit was calibrated.

    How do I know all this, well before I was a Sheriff, I worked as a city cop and a traffic cop. I have written 200 plus speeding tickets and can't tell you how many times I have testified in traffic court on them. If you can catch a cop/ranger who's just pointing the gun, not using correct verbiage or who's department is not keeping proper records on the unit or training its easy to get the ticket thrown out.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    That is their exact goal. Suckers voted for midpen funding so now they will answer to no one for the foreseeable future.

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    Yep. Remember when I said not to vote for measure AA?

    This thread is why...


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  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustedone View Post
    No. This is simply not true.

    See CVC 1803 (b)

    ďThe following violations are not required to be reported Ö Violations for which a person was cited as a pedestrian or while operating a bicycle or a motorized scooter.Ē
    The key word there is required. That doesn't preclude that they could be.

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  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    The key word there is required. That doesn't preclude that they could be.

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    If they are erroneously reported you can have them removed.

    Violations that are incurred while riding/walking will not stay on your driving record if for some reason they are mistakenly reported as violations that occurred while driving.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    Alright I need to clear a few things up about this. First I'm not advocating writing tickets is a good or bad thing but you all should know that they DO NOT generate revenue for the parks system as that would be illegal. The parks system gets maybe 2% of the fine from the ticket and that is true for all law enforcement agencies in the state.

    For anyone who has got a radar or lidar ticket. PM me and ill give you a detailed court testimony on how to beat it. I am POST trained on both and they are easy to fight if you know what to say and the questions to ask. Park rangers have no clue on how to "properly" use those units and the right steps you need to take before actually using the radar. Its not as simple as just pointing the gun and looking at the speed it says.
    Can you share all your information right here/now?

    The problem with fighting it in court is first you you have to show up in in criminal Traffic Court... with all them DUI folks. Then you have to go before the judge and plea NOT GUILTY. Then pay and get a later court appeance date to fight the charges. If you plead guilty right there, the charges will be dropped to about $100+.

    So to schedule a later date to fight it in court is simply not worth it for some folks where time is at a premium.


    Now here is ANOTHER angle:
    At the time the ranger is issuing the ticket, that seems like the best opportunity to staty one's case against the speeding ticket. Ask when the the radar gun was last calibrated. State that you will fight it in court, etc, etc.

    I heard they will drop it to a warning, sometimes.
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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Can you share all your information right here/now?

    The problem with fighting it in court is first you you have to show up in in criminal Traffic Court... with all them DUI folks. Then you have to go before the judge and plea NOT GUILTY. Then pay and get a later court appeance date to fight the charges. If you plead guilty right there, the charges will be dropped to about $100+.

    So to schedule a later date to fight it in court is simply not worth it for some folks where time is at a premium.


    Now here is ANOTHER angle:
    At the time the ranger is issuing the ticket, that seems like the best opportunity to staty one's case against the speeding ticket. Ask when the the radar gun was last calibrated. State that you will fight it in court, etc, etc.

    I heard they will drop it to a warning, sometimes.
    To be honest when someone askes me my name badge, number or to see the radar they just bought them selves a ticket in my eyes. My name is visible on my uniform, my badge is on with its number displayed and im not going to lie about getting then on radar so I have no reason to show them.For me I know I have my ducks in a row so ill tell them its on the ticket and I would be happy to see them in court as I get paid time and a half.

    I know the court thing sucks for you and you dont want to be associated with the worse half of whos in there. On the flip side to that, if they are doing something wrong, have not recieved proper training and so on its good to bring it up and can help us (the mt bike community) in the long run.

    I would suggest do a trail by declaration. It can extend your time to fight it, you dont have to make an appearance unless you are not happy with the rangers written testimony and wish to question him before a judge.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    To be honest when someone askes me my name badge, number or to see the radar they just bought them selves a ticket in my eyes. My name is visible on my uniform, my badge is on with its number displayed and im not going to lie about getting then on radar so I have no reason to show them.For me I know I have my ducks in a row so ill tell them its on the ticket and I would be happy to see them in court as I get paid time and a half.

    I know the court thing sucks for you and you dont want to be associated with the worse half of whos in there. On the flip side to that, if they are doing something wrong, have not recieved proper training and so on its good to bring it up and can help us (the mt bike community) in the long run.

    I would suggest do a trail by declaration. It can extend your time to fight it, you dont have to make an appearance unless you are not happy with the rangers written testimony and wish to question him before a judge.
    You do understand that there is a high likelihood you work for, ie are employed by, those people you are "selling" tickets to yes?

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  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    You do understand that there is a high likelihood you work for, ie are employed by, those people you are "selling" tickets to yes?

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    Im not selling anyone tickets if people want to be dicks and think they can demand something from me when in reality they are breaking the law and im doing my job then they earned it. I do not work for anyone I write a ticket too so I dont really know what you are getting at. You should look into how police agencies get there funding.

    I have simply given advice on how to fight a radar ticket as it is easy to fight when you ask the right questions in court. If you want to be a dick then cool, but I wish before I was a LEO I had someone tell me legitimate ways to get out of tickets with out having to hire an attorney

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    Im not selling anyone tickets and I do not work for anyone I write a ticket too so I dont really know what you are getting at.

    I have simply given advice on how to fight a radar ticket as it is easy to fight when you ask the right questions in court. If you want to be a dick then cool, but I wisj before I was a LEO I haf someone tell me legitimate ways to get out of tickets with out having to hire an attorney
    Someone "bought" a ticket from you so you are selling. And, yes, you work for the people you are writing tickets to, not too. They pay your salary and you, through chain of command are ultimately accountable to them for your actions. Having some more respect for your employers might behoove you greatly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Someone "bought" a ticket from you so you are selling. And, yes, you work for the people you are writing tickets to, not too. They pay your salary and you, through chain of command are ultimately accountable to them for your actions. Having some more respect for your employers might behoove you greatly.

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    You are clueless dude and have drank the liberal coolaid clearly. So here is some education for you. Law enforcement agsnecies are not funded by your income tax, they are funded from the businesses and industries that are in the city or county. Maybe .5% of the property tax people pay goes to a city for there general fund and maybe 1% of the sales tax from product bought with in the city or county goes to that fund.

    I do not work for you and you do not pay ny salery. Get off your high horse @$$ hat you dont know all. And go ahead and correct my grammer some more to make youraelf a bigger tool please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dustedone View Post
    Your responses prompt the following questions:

    1) How did you pass the required psych evaluation given the temperament that youíve revealed in this thread?

    2) Are the requirements for written English really that low?
    Thanks for your in put. According to the news a hairdresser can do my job so there is your answer. I dont need to know how to spell well to be good at my job. If you think I have a temperment feel free to look up who I work for and take it up with my chain of command.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    You are clueless dude and have drank the liberal coolaid clearly. So here is some education for you. Law enforcement agsnecies are not funded by your income tax, they are funded from the businesses and industries that are in the city or county. Maybe .5% of the property tax people pay goes to a city for there general fund and maybe 1% of the sales tax from product bought with in the city or county goes to that fund.

    I do not work for you and you do not pay ny salery. Get off your high horse @$$ hat you dont know all. And go ahead and correct my grammer some more to make youraelf a bigger tool please.
    Exactly, you are funded by the citizenry of that country, state, county, municipality and district. You in term work for the people that are funding you. Go ask anyone running a successful service industry business, you are employed by the people who are giving you money.

    It seems to me that due to your position of "power" you have an over inflated sense of how important you are. Perhaps that is why you perused the job in the first place? Saying someone "bought" themselves a ticket reeks of arrogance and self importance. As such, being reminded that things are not how you wish to perceive them results in you lashing out in an overly confrontational and aggressive manner laced with logical fallacies, again a tool utilized to prop up something that is not actually based in reality. In short, if anyone is a tool it would be you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Exactly, you are funded by the citizenry of that country, state, county, municipality and district. You in term work for the people that are funding you. Go ask anyone running a successful service industry business, you are employed by the people who are giving you money.

    It seems to me that due to your position of "power" you have an over inflated sense of how important you are. Perhaps that is why you perused the job in the first place? Saying someone "bought" themselves a ticket reeks of arrogance and self importance. As such, being reminded that things are not how you wish to perceive them results in you lashing out in an overly confrontational and aggressive manner laced with logical fallacies, again a tool utilized to prop up something that is not actually based in reality. In short, if anyone is a tool it would be you.

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    Ok dude you got me there. Thats why before that Inwas giving the op a step by step guide to winning a court case for his idiotic ticket.

    And by your logic and your great intellect into law enforcement. Since I work for the people, that means every person I pull ovet should receive a punishment or im doing them a disservice. Keep trolling douche.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    Ok dude you got me there. Thats why before that Inwas giving the op a step by step guide to winning a court case for his idiotic ticket.

    And by your logic and your great intellect into law enforcement. Since I work for the people, that means every person I pull ovet should receive a punishment or im doing them a disservice. Keep trolling douche.
    I'm not trolling you. I took issue with your arrogant portrayal of how you deal with the public. You compounded the issue by becoming abusive and aggressive. Furthermore, based off of how you are portraying yourself here I am not surprised you are helping the OP. You have no power over him and thus cannot "punish" him for asking simple questions or lord your power over him.

    You remind me of the LEO who threatened to ticket my wife because she asked him a question about why he wrote an accident up as her fault, even though he had just said he had no knowledge of what happened, courts cleared her of fault btw. In his mind she was "buying" herself a ticket because she had the impudence to question his "authority". When reminded that he had just claimed on audio he had no knowledge of the events and a judge would love to hear that he became even more arrogant, angry, abusive and louder. Funnily enough he quit threatening to "sell" tickets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    I'm not trolling you. I took issue with your arrogant portrayal of how you deal with the public. You compounded the issue by becoming abusive and aggressive. Furthermore, based off of how you are portraying yourself here I am not surprised you are helping the OP. You have no power over him and thus cannot "punish" him for asking simple questions or lord your power over him.

    You remind me of the LEO who threatened to ticket my wife because she asked him a question about why he wrote an accident up as her fault, even though he had just said he had no knowledge of what happened, courts cleared her of fault btw. In his mind she was "buying" herself a ticket because she had the impudence to question his "authority". When reminded that he had just claimed on audio he had no knowledge of the events and a judge would love to hear that he became even more arrogant, angry, abusive and louder. Funnily enough he quit threatening to "sell" tickets.

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    Well I guess its a good thing my job doesnt require me to write tickets anymore.

    Maybe I should become king since im on such a powertrip and im glad you are such a good judge of charter that you can see how im truely just power hungry. God I need more POWER. Maybe fc will let me take over the whole forum since I need power over you now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    Well I guess its a good thing my job doesnt require me to write tickets anymore.

    Maybe I should become king since im on such a powertrip and im glad you are such a good judge of charter that you can see how im truely just power hungry. God I need more POWER. Maybe fc will let me take over the whole forum since I need power over you now.
    Yet you told us mere hours ago that when someone asks... Which one is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Yet you told us mere hours ago that when someone asks... Which one is it?

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    You seem to have problems tracking. If you actually read the post where informed the op on how he could beat it, you would have seen that I used to be a traffic cop. Im now a deputy sheriff and If you really need to know what I do since you are my boss and all I am a SWAT operator now. So I dont have to deal with petty tickets and finding grandmas purse that she left on the roof of her Buick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    You seem yo have problems tracking. If you actually read the post where informed the op on how he could beat it, you would have seen that I used to be a traffic cop. Im now a deputy sheriff and I you really need to know what I do since you are my boss and all I am a SWAT operator now. So I dont have to deal with petty tickets and finding grandmas purse that she left on the roof of her Buick.
    No, you have problems using the English language. You used an incorrect verb tense which implied you were still currently writing tickets. Had you used the correct past tense there would have been no confusion.

    Before you get started again that is not nit-picking your grammar. It's an illustrative example of how poor grammar prevents one from effectively communicating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    No, you have problems using the English language. You used an incorrect verb tense which implied you were still currently writing tickets. Had you used the correct past tense there would have been no confusion.

    Before you get started again that is not nit-picking your grammar. It's an illustrative example of how poor grammar prevents one from effectively communicating.

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    Like it or not when you deal with Law Enforcement there is such thing as the "Attitude Test," that if you fail that the likelihood of you getting a ticket is much greater. I believe that is all the officer (Who is trying to help) was trying to convey.

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    With regard to Midpen ticketing, has anyone actually gotten a ticket on singletrack yet? Or have all the cases been on doubletrack/fireroads where rangers can get their trucks into the park?

    I'm thinking mainly of Skeggs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phogan22 View Post
    With regard to Midpen ticketing, has anyone actually gotten a ticket on singletrack yet? Or have all the cases been on doubletrack/fireroads where rangers can get their trucks into the park?

    I'm thinking mainly of Skeggs.

    Almost all these radar gun toting rangers are within 20 feet of their trucks. So mostly fire road. Once in a while they'll aim at a singletrack exiting into the fire road.

    These new crop of rangers in particular... rarely seem to leave their trucks.
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    Seeing as how a bike doesn't really have a surface conducive to sending back a reliable signal I wonder if some refractive clothing, reflective would actually help with accuracy, could prevent an accurate reading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Almost all these radar gun toting rangers are within 20 feet of their trucks. So mostly fire road. Once in a while they'll aim at a singletrack exiting into the fire road.

    These new crop of rangers in particular... rarely seem to leave their trucks.
    I saw one with a radar once on south leaf, and Sierra Morena is one of their favorite spots as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Seeing as how a bike doesn't really have a surface conducive to sending back a reliable signal I wonder if some refractive clothing, reflective would actually help with accuracy, could prevent an accurate reading.

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    Radar doesn't discriminate when it comes to surface. Modern day radar uses several different types of waves all with different frequency. There have been numerous court cases and case law that states it and you will not win a argument in court using that. The only way it could be possible to not get a reading is if the ranger is using Lidar, as they have to lock and hold on a target to get a reading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    Radar doesn't discriminate when it comes to surface. Modern day radar uses several different types of waves all with different frequency. There have been numerous court cases and case law that states it and you will not win a argument in court using that. The only way it could be possible to not get a reading is if the ranger is using Lidar, as they have to lock and hold on a target to get a reading.
    Radar does discrimate based on surfaces. That is simple physics no matter what a judge or jury who are likely lay people in terms of physics may think. Also, beating it in court is not what is being discussed it would never go to court. On an automobile it is quite easy to get a flat, non-absorbent surface to reflect off of, the basis on which radar, ie the Doppler effect works. On a bike, not so much. Head tubes are round and maybe the top tube has a spot flat enough, maybe not. That leaves the rider as the sole reliable surface to get a reflection off of. If that rider happened to be wearing clothing that was highly reflective, to radar, that intentionally continued hundreds of small square edges positioned at various angles there is a high probability that the return single would be so noisy that a speed couldn't be registered.

    Again, this is basic physics. Is it feasible, maybe? It would be much more likely to pull off on a bike than a car though due to cost and overall surface area. You would actually find it harder to intentionally defeat Lidar than radar on a bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Radar does discrimate based on surfaces. That is simple physics no matter what a judge or jury who are likely lay people in terms of physics may think. Also, beating it in court is not what is being discussed it would never go to court. On an automobile it is quite easy to get a flat, non-absorbent surface to reflect off of, the basis on which radar, ie the Doppler effect works. On a bike, not so much. Head tubes are round and maybe the top tube has a spot flat enough, maybe not. That leaves the rider as the sole reliable surface to get a reflection off of. If that rider happened to be wearing clothing that was highly reflective, to radar, that intentionally continued hundreds of small square edges positioned at various angles there is a high probability that the return single would be so noisy that a speed couldn't be registered.

    Again, this is basic physics. Is it feasible, maybe? It would be much more likely to pull off on a bike than a car though due to cost and overall surface area. You would actually find it harder to intentionally defeat Lidar than radar on a bike.

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    Ok Mr.Know it all. You are a 100% wrong but since you feel you need to be right about everything we will just leave it at that. I guess I will know when I see you on the trail because you will be the guy covered in reflective tape, a tin foil helmet and mirrors to "reflect" the radar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    Ok Mr.Know it all. You are a 100% wrong but since you feel you need to be right about everything we will just leave it at that. I guess I will know when I see you on the trail because you will be the guy covered in reflective tape, a tin foil helmet and mirrors to "reflect" the radar.
    Then please explain to the class how radar works?

    Also, think more along the lines of a carefully sculpted puffy vest. What you describe sounds absolutely ludicrous.

    P. S. Wait a minute, are you claiming radar doesn't work off of the Doppler Effect?

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    Hey, mzorich and tuckerjt07, throttle back the vitriol. It is clear the two of you reside on opposite sides of the Thin Blue Line and there is no way either of you will agree on anything or understand each other. Some of the stuff in your posts is informative to us others but for the most part they are just pushing the thread into more pages of nothing but your argument. Take it to PM if you have to still duke it out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Then please explain to the class how radar works?

    Also, think more along the lines of a carefully sculpted puffy vest. What you describe sounds absolutely ludicrous.

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    Im good dude, you are just here to argue and try and be right about everything even though you have no first hand experience with it. You are not here to help, which I actually was, you are here to try and make your self feel superior for some reason or another. If you want to actually learn go look up a radar class and go sit in it for 3 days where you learn everything from how radar and the doppler effect was created to the mathematic equation that the radar unit uses to calculate speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    You would actually find it harder to intentionally defeat Lidar than radar on a bike.
    It would be easier to mount a M27 Blinder on a bike to defeat Lidar than it would be to get all stealth fighter like to defeat radar.

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    Midpen on a ticketing rampage again-r44lt.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by dustedone View Post
    It would be easier to mount a M27 Blinder on a bike to defeat Lidar than it would be to get all stealth fighter like to defeat radar.
    Touche, if you are going active just risk the ire of the FCC and throw a jammer on there too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    Im good dude, you are just here to argue and try and be right about everything even though you have no first hand experience with it. You are not here to help, which I actually was, you are here to try and make your self feel superior for some reason or another. If you want to actually learn go look up a radar class and go sit in it for 3 days where you learn everything from how radar and the doppler effect was created to the mathematic equation that the radar unit uses to calculate speed.
    I have plenty of experience with radar. I have actually utilized it for a portion of my work at times. Furthermore, there is absolutely a zero percent chance you learned "everything" about radar in a three day class, zero.

    Your unit requires a reflection back to it to calculate speed. If the ability to get a clean reflection is removed it cannot calculate speed. Your three day training does not make you an expert, nor am I, but I do have functional experience in dealing with the concept and interpreting results, not just a three day class and then pull a trigger and read the display.

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    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum.

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    There may be a love connection happening, hard to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    I have plenty of experience with radar. I have actually utilized it for a portion of my work at times. Furthermore, there is absolutely a zero percent chance you learned "everything" about radar in a three day class, zero.

    Your unit requires a reflection back to it to calculate speed. If the ability to get a clean reflection is removed it cannot calculate speed. Your three day training does not make you an expert, nor am I, but I do have functional experience in dealing with the concept and interpreting results, not just a three day class and then pull a trigger and read the display.

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    There are multiple grammatical errors in this post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    There are multiple grammatical errors in this post.
    I would love for you to point them out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Almost all these radar gun toting rangers are within 20 feet of their trucks. So mostly fire road. Once in a while they'll aim at a singletrack exiting into the fire road.

    These new crop of rangers in particular... rarely seem to leave their trucks.
    I was stopped by a female ranger w/ radar part way up the single track at the bottom of Stevens Cyn. Rd. to inform me she clocked me at 8MPH while she estimated I was doing 9! What was the point of that?

    With 40mm tires and no suspension on my cross bike, I have to keep the speed down on the descents. But there are sections where just a second or two off the brakes and you can pop up over 15 w/o realizing it. Trying to focus on the GPS screen to read my speed can be dangerous if I miss seeing an obstacle coming up. I'm thinking of designing a small audible speed alarm I can turn on for descents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    We have progressed from a bunch of kids just looking to play in the woods to a bunch of dads and moms... lawyers, doctors, engineers, blue-collar folks, business owners and ceo's looking to improve our lives out there.

    YET MIDPEN CONTINUES TO IGNORE ALL THIS. They want to treat us like outcasts and criminals.

    I have 5 amazing bikes in the garage and shelves of insanely good bike lights and there's no Midpen trail available to use them. And they've bought up all the land around me in the South Bay. My road bike is the only thing entertaining on the legal trails and legal speed limits.
    It sounds like as a user group with a lot of disposable income we could stand to pay more expensive tickets.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Crawler View Post
    I was stopped by a female ranger w/ radar part way up the single track at the bottom of Stevens Cyn. Rd. to inform me she clocked me at 8MPH while she estimated I was doing 9! What was the point of that?

    With 40mm tires and no suspension on my cross bike, I have to keep the speed down on the descents. But there are sections where just a second or two off the brakes and you can pop up over 15 w/o realizing it. Trying to focus on the GPS screen to read my speed can be dangerous if I miss seeing an obstacle coming up. I'm thinking of designing a small audible speed alarm I can turn on for descents.

    The ranger who harrassed my high school group was one of the new lady hires too. She was in a bit of a power trip.

    I wasn't there but it pissed me off. It's like a new breed of 'trail police' they're hiring.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    I would love for you to point them out.

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    Here you go sir: https://www.grammarcheck.net/editor/

    You may want to try your other posts too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    Here you go sir: https://www.grammarcheck.net/editor/

    You may want to try your other posts too.
    Sorry, other than hyphen on three-day, which my phone hates by the way, none of those are actual errors. They are false positives due to that algorithm not understanding tone or intent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Sorry, other than hyphen on three-day, which my phone hates by the way, none of those are actual errors. They are false positives due to that algorithm not understanding tone or intent.

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    I figured you would care about your own grammar since you were pointing out mzorich's grammatical errors. Perhaps I was wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    It sounds like as a user group with a lot of disposable income we could stand to pay more expensive tickets.
    Oh, the bikes and the lights are mostly not mine. Loaners.

    With normal law enforcement, there has to be parity with fines among offenses and user groups. Not right to charge $50 for jaywalking and then $500 jaywalking with dog.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    I figured you would care about your own grammar since you were pointing out mzorich's grammatical errors. Perhaps I was wrong.
    I do, and I set up a number day hyphen rule in SwiftKey. However, the other two suggestions were not accurate. I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand about that.

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    We have #tomcat
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Oh, the bikes and the lights are mostly not mine. Loaners.
    Copy that.

    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    With normal law enforcement, there has to be parity with fines among offenses and user groups. Not right to charge $50 for jaywalking and then $500 jaywalking with dog.
    I think now I might finally be starting to understand the argument...

    So you're saying other user groups would not get fined the same amounts for similar crimes, correct? What are the other similar crimes they could commit and their associated fines?

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    Copy that.



    I think now I might finally be starting to understand the argument...

    So you're saying other user groups would not get fined the same amounts for similar crimes, correct? What are the other similar crimes they could commit and their associated fines?
    night hiking
    peeing within sight of a trail
    hiking beyond trails
    wearing earbuds but with both on
    hiking naked
    laughing
    having alcoholic beverage but without accompanying food

    I don't know... no hiker really gets a ticket in Midpen
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    Copy that.



    I think now I might finally be starting to understand the argument...

    So you're saying other user groups would not get fined the same amounts for similar crimes, correct? What are the other similar crimes they could commit and their associated fines?
    It not the law enforcement entity that creates the fine. I know with city codes and municipal codes it's a city council or the city planner that puts together a fine schedule and then its voted on by the city council. Now that may be different because it's a park but thats all stuff you will need to either bring up at a city council meeting or a parks commission meeting. How they come up with the fine amounts seems likes its just pulling numbers out of a hat. I know in the county I work for if you get caught with meth you are lucky if you pay over $500 in fines but if you cut down a tree on your own property without a permit they have been throwing the book at those "horrible people" and prosecuting them with the misdemeanor offense in the counties municipal code. Now how the came up with it being a misdemeanor for cutting down a tree on your own property baffles me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    Copy that.



    I think now I might finally be starting to understand the argument...

    So you're saying other user groups would not get fined the same amounts for similar crimes, correct? What are the other similar crimes they could commit and their associated fines?
    This presupposes that going faster than 15 mph is a crime. I think our point is that an arbitrary speed limit that's enforced on a wide fire road with zero hiker traffic and amazing sight lines is not law enforcement but a not-so-subtle message from Mid Pen that we should go elsewhere.

    That said, we need to find a way to do something about the assholes who do things like bomb blind downhill corners on a warm, sunny weekend day. The careless mountain bikers are the exception rather than the rule, but one bad reaction (not even an incident, but a perceived risk) by a hiker, when voiced to MidPen and/or by someone with influence, begets this kind of enforcement.

    (and yes, MidPen could solve all of this by creating one-way trails at Skeggs, keeping horses limited to the fire roads, and making parts of the park bike-priority so that hikers choose their route wisely).

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    peeing within sight of a trail
    hiking beyond trails

    I don't know... no hiker really gets a ticket in Midpen
    Sort of a Catch-22 there, how does one get far enough off the trail to be out of sight without hiking off the trail?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    night hiking
    peeing within sight of a trail
    hiking beyond trails
    wearing earbuds but with both on
    hiking naked
    laughing
    having alcoholic beverage but without accompanying food

    I don't know... no hiker really gets a ticket in Midpen
    Okay I hear you on this... bear with me.

    I guess I have never really seen anyone committing those crimes though. (Midpen would probably argue I'm going too fast to see them... HA!) Laughing maybe. Is that a noise violation? Hiking beyond trails maybe... that is probably the closest to a cyclo speeding ticket. Do we know what the fine is for that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKD View Post
    This presupposes that going faster than 15 mph is a crime. I think our point is that an arbitrary speed limit that's enforced on a wide fire road with zero hiker traffic and amazing sight lines is not law enforcement but a not-so-subtle message from Mid Pen that we should go elsewhere.

    That said, we need to find a way to do something about the assholes who do things like bomb blind downhill corners on a warm, sunny weekend day. The careless mountain bikers are the exception rather than the rule, but one bad reaction (not even an incident, but a perceived risk) by a hiker, when voiced to MidPen and/or by someone with influence, begets this kind of enforcement.

    (and yes, MidPen could solve all of this by creating one-way trails at Skeggs, keeping horses limited to the fire roads, and making parts of the park bike-priority so that hikers choose their route wisely).
    I hear you loud and clear on all of this.

    From my perspective there are so many cyclists behaving badly on the trails, including myself sometimes, that I've just gotten really apathetic about the whole thing. If I get lumped into the crowd that likes to bomb blind downhill corners and that means that every once in a while I get popped with a $400 ticket for an innocuous offense because that happens to be the easiest way to clear all the knuckleheads out of there, I am perfectly okay with that.

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    I think the number of truly dangerous cyclists is pretty low, but everyone's risk tolerance varies, and older hikers/families have a lot lower tolerance than the rider. As I've heard someone else relate, "it's like they don't know that we have brakes." But it takes one bad interaction to bring about a big change.

    The fix to this is multi-part, and I prefer the structural (better trail design) over the behavioral (enforcement). And I don't think $400 tickets will help unless they get you every time you go that fast. As is, I see a ranger maybe once every 10 weekend rides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post


    (Lame cover version is all that's deserved here.)
    OMG. Now I know why the children cried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    OMG. Now I know why the children cried.
    Lots of grammatical errors in that video.
    Collusion!

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    I haven't seen it in a while. Can someone find and post all their fines and rules and the number of citations they write per year?

    That would be something good to keep track of. And have disclosure on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    night hiking
    peeing within sight of a trail
    hiking beyond trails
    wearing earbuds but with both on
    hiking naked
    laughing
    having alcoholic beverage but without accompanying food

    I don't know... no hiker really gets a ticket in Midpen
    Actually I once saw a large group of hikers getting popped for being over 20 without a permit. I just hate Midpen

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  83. #183
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    Palate cleanse...

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  84. #184
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    PARKS & PRESERVES ‚Äď Monterey Peninsula Regional Park District

    Codes and ordinances are on a pdf link at the bottom.

    I cant find there FY 16 department overview but thats where they would have ticket/arrest stats. They do have one as its state law to produce it but I just cant find it. If you sent an email im sure they would send it to you.

  85. #185
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    Search "enforcement activities" on their records page. Bike violations are pointedly summarized at the front end. Here's 2014:

    http://www.openspace.org/CGI-BIN/age...11_R-15-22.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKD View Post
    Search "enforcement activities" on their records page. Bike violations are pointedly summarized at the front end. Here's 2014:

    http://www.openspace.org/CGI-BIN/age...11_R-15-22.pdf
    So according to there stats they enforce rules on dogs and hikers alot more then bikes besides helmet cites and the number of speeding tickets issued to bikers have been almost cut in half over the last 8 years.

  87. #187
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    (it's 2014).

    Reading the incident descriptions, it would seem that there are far more marijuana grow operations, fires, and even mountain lion attacks than safety-related bicycle incidents.

    Seems like a silly use of time to do radar trapping, IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKD View Post
    (it's 2014).

    Reading the incident descriptions, it would seem that there are far more marijuana grow operations, fires, and even mountain lion attacks than safety-related bicycle incidents.

    Seems like a silly use of time to do radar trapping, IMHO.
    That it does but if they are being told to do it then they have there hands tied.

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    So according to there stats they enforce rules on dogs and hikers alot more then bikes besides helmet cites and the number of speeding tickets issued to bikers have been almost cut in half over the last 8 years.
    I was surprised to see how high the dog violation numbers were. It also appears that "Closed area" violations do not include "Bike - closed area" violations, which means that those numbers are pretty high as well. Is this just one of those scenarios where we are harping on the bike violations because those are the only ones we as a user group get to see being enforced?

  90. #190
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    Literally zero bike safety incidents. One complaint called in by a dog walker about a cyclist, but no mention of collision, injury, or anything else suggesting that bike speed is an issue. Plenty of moto reports at Skeggs though.

    But then there is this gem:

    A naked runner was contacted by a District Ranger after the runner was seen running in view of Highway 35. He stated that he thought it was OK to be naked in open space. He was told to put on clothes, cited, and released.

  91. #191
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    A lot of the dog tickets are for off-leash and for presence of dogs.

    Most of the Midpen parks are off limits to dogs. Saratoga Gap, Russian Ridge, Windy Hill to Skeggs. Pretty much the whole expanse of the Highway 35 parks.

    Why? Don't know.
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  92. #192
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    So a naked guy on a bike going over 15mph with a dog running with him would be the holy grail for a ranger....

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilerz View Post
    So a naked guy on a bike going over 15mph with a dog running with him would be the holy grail for a ranger....
    Only if at night.

  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    A lot of the dog tickets are for off-leash and for presence of dogs.

    Most of the Midpen parks are off limits to dogs. Saratoga Gap, Russian Ridge, Windy Hill to Skeggs. Pretty much the whole expanse of the Highway 35 parks.

    Why? Don't know.
    It probably has to do with all those steamers they leave laying around that us bicyclists hate.

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    New surveillance techniques.


  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Only if at night.
    I knew I forgot something.

  97. #197
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    Tickets & fines do indeed suck, but has anyone here had their bike confiscated? I havenít, but Iíve often wondered if/how/when/where it could happen.

  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenj View Post
    Tickets & fines do indeed suck, but has anyone here had their bike confiscated? I havenít, but Iíve often wondered if/how/when/where it could happen.
    The only enforcement reports I've read that involve confiscation are where the cyclist tries to outrun the ranger and the santa clara county/san mateo county sheriff's offices are called in to assist.

    I think there was some confiscation going on in Marin in the late 90s/early 2000s when GGNRA switched trail use designations to ban bikes by default. This thread is funny and sad at the same time: Fines? in Marin Headlands

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    That threat comes up occasionally, most recently at UC/Cowell, but I've never heard it actually happening except at the Miramar military base in Socal. Even then they eventually got their bikes back.

  100. #200
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    I think they would have to take me to jail before I would let them take my bike from me. Of course it's my only way home too.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

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