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  1. #1
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    MIDPEN: "How do YOU imagine the future of Open Space?"

    The MROSD seeks public opinion on the future of Open Space management within their district.

    They have created a website where you may contribute your insight:

    Imagine the Future of Open Space by MindMixer

    Some information about this process; what the MROSD pursues; may be found here:

    Openspace.org - Plans and Projects - Imagine the Future of Open Space

  2. #2
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    I posted my vision of the open space. We will see if they even post it up. I put out a plea for more multi use trails particularly mountain biking trails as they are increasingly popular. Or so I am told. We will see if Open space people will even allow it to be posted. I noticed that there were only 8 or 9 things in there none of them biking related.
    "Chancho. When you are a man sometimes you wear stretchy pants... Its for fun..."

  3. #3
    middle ring single track
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    Vote early and often...

    Bump

    If nothing else shortcut to here and let them know you're a biker:

    How Do You Use Open Space? | Imagine the Future of Open Space by MindMixer

    And yes; so far there's a bias towards the walking stick crowd in what's been posted---but perhaps that's the reality of the demographic???
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  4. #4
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    Knowing MidPen, this will probably lead to nothing for mountain bike access. Or it will lead to them bulldozing trails to widen them for multi-use. However, I did create an account and voted for my favorite ideas, and replied to the survey. I still believe it's important to reiterate the fact that mtb'ers are a major user group, if not the largest user group, of the open space.

    I think the website is pretty cool, because you can 'like' other people's ideas as well as submit your own. People can quickly see the most popular ideas.

  5. #5
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    Done!
    Created my account.
    voted for
    * DougM idea of more multi-use single track for mtn bike bikers
    * Umunum to the Sea
    * More interesting trails, not roads...

    Go Vote!

  6. #6
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    mtb input

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcerer View Post
    The MROSD seeks public opinion on the future of Open Space management within their district.
    Thanks! Can't hurt to keep voicing our opinions, interests and preferences!

  7. #7
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    MIDPEN: "How do YOU imagine the future of Open Space?"

    Bump

  8. #8
    sftrydr
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    Thanx Sorcerer...
    We keep pushing on these trails doors, sometimes they open a bit:
    Here in SMCo we have glacial like progress happening w SMCo parks dept. in regards to bike access.
    Simple stuff like filling out these seemingly endless surveys can start moving the access curve into a more digestible form to us pedalers.

    From SMCo Survey results:

    "Recreational opportunities and environmental protection programs tied for first.
    Within recreational opportunities, the community’s top three priorities were, trails, picnic and camping facilities. Survey responses also indicated
    that these activities represent those of many of our users. In addition, respondents indicated that in the future, 50% would like to see more hiking trails, 47% would like more walking trails, and 40% would like more bicycling trails."

    Now staff has an iron clad directive to facilitate cyclists within existing parks trails.

    It's up to us to remind staff of these directives as lands use policies are implemented.

  9. #9
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    I added some comments about Sierra Azul and St. Joseph's Hill with regard to speed limits and the need for some single track and trails with lesser grades. Also added a new item about opening up Bear Creek Redwoods.

  10. #10
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    Keep pushing!

    Thanks sorcerer for the update at the romp meeting last night. Sounds like a group of influential folks.

    As a respected and prominent Mtb'er please make it known to the Board that your desires are a reflection of the community. Perhaps they are using this forum to ensure buyin from user groups to support upcoming parcel tax.

    Thanks again for being involved

  11. #11
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    DONE! I threw in some positive comments too.

    No question filling out these surveys in large numbers and with a positive tone can eventually make a difference. Even with the terrible bias toward hikers and horses that many Board members have professed. Indeed, geologic time may be the rate of change, but at least there will be change.

    Their community includes mountain bikers...their community is mountain bikers.....there should be increased mountain bike access. They need to be consistently reminded of this -- in a constructive way. Don't lose hope, our sons & daughters will ride on trails we never legally could, and that is worth something.

  12. #12
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    All of your responses are positive and sensible.

    But that doesn't mean other sorts of responses don't qualify either.

    Unleash your ideas.

    It's unlikely that you'll ever get an easier access to their processes than this folks.

    Work it baby!

    Give them a piece of you mind.

    Donate blood.

  13. #13
    More Torque
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    Great comments on the survey site so far, with about 95% coming from mountain bikers. Please keep them coming. MROSD lands have SO much unrealized potential.

    -D

  14. #14
    Axe
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    Had an account there since it opened, will keep voting up good ideas.

  15. #15
    middle ring single track
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    Curmudgeonly bump

    I guess I'm getting cantankerous in my old age but I'm not getting a "kumbaya" feeling with this Share Your Vision thing.

    They've got one hell of a blooper in their invitation:

    "In the last 40 years we have preserved over 60,000 acres of land and built more than 220 miles of hiking, bicycling and equestrian trails on the Peninsula and in the South Bay."

    "Built" 220 miles of of hiking, bicycling and equestrian trails??? Bull$hit!!! It's more like they "have" 220 miles of...

    Most of MROSD's "trails" are re-purposed fire and logging roads; but I don't have to tell you guys that!

    Yeah sure they've done a few miles of multi-use trail reroutes but (and please correct me if I'm wrong) they haven't built an inch of bike trail.

    I'll let somebody else politely "Share Your Vision" on this issue.

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  16. #16
    rho
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    Re: MIDPEN: "How do YOU imagine the future of Open Space?"

    Ive seen the future! It is wonderful and glorious and there is less horse poop.

    Sent by smoke signal.

  17. #17
    Paper or plastic?
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    Future is bleak, full of radar toting rangers and restrictions... Still voted.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  18. #18
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    Reality will Govern Mental System Open Space

    [What Happened to mtbr...this looks like a phone app.]

    About the cruel hoax that we all submit to in that we observe a matrix of codes and rules which constitute our fictitious governmental rule, to which we voluntarily donate, is really what I'd like to explore here in relation to local mountain bike access. However, that is Too Long To Read.

    Instead I am here making remarks about an invitational meeting that the MROSD held last night.

    This was a "Focus Group", about 16 people representing the most significant stake holders (ADA users notably absent) to help the MROSD identify "decision making criteria" through a scripted process, towards the codification of a vision for the theme of "Outdoor recreation and Healthy Living".

    [I lack time to develop this in greater detail.]

    The upshot IMHO was that the participants (significantly most of them being well steeped in the district lore) zeroed in on some common themes, despite their differences in mode.

    These were:

    • Access to preserve or areas that were previously closed or inaccessible, distributed regionally, and featuring a variety of environments, consistent with the available protected lands.
    • Increased trails designed and specialized for one type of preserve user.
    • Long distance trail connections that connect open spcaes and communties.








    Discuss...

    BTW...ot:

    Submitted by Shelly Lewis of the Midpeninsula Regional Open Space District.

    The Midpeninsula Regional Open Space District on Tuesday (July 23) opened a one-half mile trail connecting the Skyline Trail/Bay Area Ridge Trail on California Water Service land to El Corte de Madera Creek Open Space Preserve.

    The new trail connection provides a crossing over Highway 35 for hikers and equestrians who travel from San Mateo County's Wunderlich Park through Cal Water's land to El Corte de Madera Creek Open Space Preserve.

    Named the Molder Trail, it starts near the south end of the Sierra Morena Trail in El Corte de Madera Creek Open Space Preserve and connects to the Skyline Trail on Cal Water land at a point on Highway 35 between Skeggs Point and Wunderlich Park.

    A Coastal Conservancy/Bay Area Ridge Trail grant helped fund construction of the connecting trail. The section of trail on the Cal Water side of Highway 35 is for hikers and equestrians only due to limited-use restrictions on Cal Water land.

    Visit OPENSPACE | Midpeninsula Regional Open Space District for more information about the open space district.

  19. #19
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    For me, my vision of the future involves MidPen not having radar jockies out there writing people up for simply exceeding a speed limit. I'm way more ok w/ enforcing speed when mixed use is an immediate concern, but that is the exception rather than the norm.

  20. #20
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcerer View Post
    The section of trail on the Cal Water side of Highway 35 is for hikers and equestrians only due to limited-use restrictions on Cal Water land.
    Cal Water likes manure?

    ..and I guess there is absolutely no public way to pressure those bureaucrats to remove such a silly restriction on cycling.

  21. #21
    Dirty by Nature
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    My dream for the future of Open Space: Rainbows, unicorns, edible rangers, and lift-assisted singletrack. And the horse poop smells like roses.



    Seriously, thanks for representing--and entertaining--us (conspiracy theories aside). At least they're opening up some poachable trails...

    (and I did post up some suggestions for equitable trail use on their site, not that I expect much to change)
    Last edited by dirtvert; 07-29-2013 at 02:49 PM.
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    My dream for the future of Open Space: Rainbows, unicorns, and lift-assisted singletrack. And the horse poop smells like roses.



    Seriously, thanks for representing--and entertaining--us. At least they're opening up some poachable trails...

    Thanks for bumping the thread.

    Oh I despise the exclusion, the radar, and the litany of irrelevant regulations, the tyranny of safety, the obsolete dogmas, the religion of wilderness, the policy of divide and conquer, and the imagined consensual state which holds us captive in its prison without bars.

    We all have this Planet in common. It is a comedy.

    Whereas someone campaigned on "hope and change", for the rest of us its cope with strange. The cognitive dissonance is difficult to bear.

    The perplexity of trails which traverse the lands of different agencies and their disharmonious restrictions, as in the example of the Molder Trail, continually frustrates us. This was a point of discussion last night.

    If the law is wrong how will you behave?

    Speak out, and you might end up like Michael Hastings, Gallileo, JFK, and MLK, to name some well known whistle blowers.

  23. #23
    middle ring single track
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    Buy stock?

    "...largest investor-owned American water utility west of the Mississippi..." is how Cal Water is heralded.

    https://www.calwater.com/about/index.php

    So it's not the typical issue of dealing with bureaucracy managing public land, their lands are private and as such they can be quite fickle about who they grant access to. "What's in it for them?" is the question to be asked. Anybody here ever approach the management for bicycling access?

    If there's a majority shareholder who happens to dislike MTB's they'll never permit access.

    It really pisses me off how the supposedly "multi-use" BART bifurcates in so many places; bikes always get stuck on the pavement or some nasty section of fire road. (fodder for another thread)
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  24. #24
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    Thanks for relaying the happenings at the meeting.

    The Molder trail in particular is a thorn in my tire in regards to how Mid Pen acts, plans and treats mountain bikers. Rather than do anything to help with connectivity to other trails for bikes the board goes out of its way to create a new trail to make it easier for equestrians and hikers to access El Corte de Madera, one of the only local trails for mountain bikers living on the mid-peninsula. From what I have seen of the trail I don't think it will add a significant number of the users Mid Pen is catering to at ECDM but the fact that they are bending over backwards to create full, unobstructed access (even a big parking lot so they can snuggle their big trailers right up close to the trail) to every trail imaginable for an equestrian while continuing to ignore mountain bikers is despicable. Never mind the fact that the way the switchbacks on the Molder trail were constructed, the trail will be decimated by horses.

    How do I imagine the future of Open Space? Locked down, mediocre, exclusionary, elitist. I am insulted that Mid Pen tries to sell their survey as something that will drive policy. Clearly Mid Pen is ignoring the MTB comments and doing what they have always done; catering to equestrians and hikers.
    "It's just that nobody likes Cornfish." francois

  25. #25
    Let's ride
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornfish View Post
    Thanks for relaying the happenings at the meeting.

    The Molder trail in particular is a thorn in my tire in regards to how Mid Pen acts, plans and treats mountain bikers. Rather than do anything to help with connectivity to other trails for bikes the board goes out of its way to create a new trail to make it easier for equestrians and hikers to access El Corte de Madera, one of the only local trails for mountain bikers living on the mid-peninsula. From what I have seen of the trail I don't think it will add a significant number of the users Mid Pen is catering to at ECDM but the fact that they are bending over backwards to create full, unobstructed access (even a big parking lot so they can snuggle their big trailers right up close to the trail) to every trail imaginable for an equestrian while continuing to ignore mountain bikers is despicable. Never mind the fact that the way the switchbacks on the Molder trail were constructed, the trail will be decimated by horses.

    How do I imagine the future of Open Space? Locked down, mediocre, exclusionary, elitist. I am insulted that Mid Pen tries to sell their survey as something that will drive policy. Clearly Mid Pen is ignoring the MTB comments and doing what they have always done; catering to equestrians and hikers.

    Well said man. I was too fuming when I read the description of the trail and why/who it was for to write a reply post. It guts me that Midpen gets my money each year.

    I filled out their lame ass survey and gave it to them and their policy. I'm sure that isn't worth the toilet paper they wipe their asses with.

  26. #26
    he who goes without food
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    The Molder Trail was specifically created as part of the planning process with the new parking lot and staging area (now delayed due to drainage issues ). This is because the current acess to Wunderlich will be closed, as the gate into ECDM at that location has already been closed as part of the project. It also adresses a concern that was brought up about users crossing 35 at a safer more visible location. It was also mentioned that the the expected number of users is low. All this is from one of the planning meetings prior to approval of the new staging area

  27. #27
    It's about showing up.
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    Survey done.
    "It is time to re-evaluate the disposition which allows a herd animal in questionable control to dictate how humans use a public park. Hello!?"
    I don't rattle.

  28. #28
    Axe
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    MIDPEN: "How do YOU imagine the future of Open Space?"

    Quote Originally Posted by diskus View Post
    The Molder Trail was specifically created as part of the planning process with the new parking lot and staging area (now delayed due to drainage issues ). This is because the current acess to Wunderlich will be closed...

    It was also mentioned that the the expected number of users is low.
    Glad Midpen has their priorities straight. New botched parking lot and groomed access trails for the privileged few.

  29. #29
    I'm really diggin it!
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    MIDPEN: "How do YOU imagine the future of Open Space?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    Survey done.
    "It is time to re-evaluate the disposition which allows a herd animal in questionable control to dictate how humans use a public park. Hello!?"
    Thank you for the reality check Mike!

  30. #30
    It's about showing up.
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    This whole dammed site needs to learn to just keep sending the message.
    I don't rattle.

  31. #31
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    What about a sit in at a horsey park? If we get there early and take all their parking spots...where will they park their trailers? Let's just start blocking their access in an easy legal way. We can all become hikers for a day and take over! If we do this enough, maybe someone will notice.

  32. #32
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    organizing

    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    That's how they roll. Until we get organized as a user group, this crap will continue even as our numbers continue to grow.
    @A: Agreed, though I'd word it "organized as a large-scale local user group."

    ROMP gets a huge number of requests from land managers - meetings, grant letters of support, trail work, trail etiquette stations, and so on.

    We have a relatively small number of active advocates who are involved amid work, raising families, riding, etc. We've established productive relationships with organizations such as Santa Clara County Parks and the Open Space Authority. Other times we put in effort and it's hard to tell if there will ever be progress. Lots of words to describe that (beyond 'frustrating' and 'unfair') - but still worth effort.

    I attended the midpen meeting last week with Sorceror and a rep from Mere Mortals. Staff members now have a short list of three recreation-focused priorities - across user groups - to take to the board. Time will tell, but the past doesn't always predict the future. Our numbers are growing and as a user group we've gained a lot of useful experience over time.

    ROMP is continuing to evolve and adapt with our sport and with the challenges and opportunities in our area. We welcome all mtn bikers. I would've loved to have a dh/fr rep at last week's meeting (or have a chat beforehand) but it's taking me a while to contact riders.

    A work in progress.

    Please contact me if you have an interest in participating

    --Linda G.
    president @ romp.org
    Responsible Organized Mountain Pedalers
    Advocating for Mtn Bikers in San Mateo and Santa Clara Counties
    http://www.romp.org

  33. #33
    JHH
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    Some civil disobedience might be cool, but really take the survey and let your voice be heard. That's where we can really impact a change. They are looking to understand useage patterns and demographics. Let's show them the facts by the numbers.

  34. #34
    Snowjnky McDreamy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcerer View Post
    Thanks for bumping the thread.

    Oh I despise the exclusion, the radar, and the litany of irrelevant regulations, the tyranny of safety, the obsolete dogmas, the religion of wilderness, the policy of divide and conquer, and the imagined consensual state which holds us captive in its prison without bars.

    We all have this Planet in common. It is a comedy.

    Whereas someone campaigned on "hope and change", for the rest of us its cope with strange. The cognitive dissonance is difficult to bear.

    The perplexity of trails which traverse the lands of different agencies and their disharmonious restrictions, as in the example of the Molder Trail, continually frustrates us. This was a point of discussion last night.

    If the law is wrong how will you behave?

    Speak out, and you might end up like Michael Hastings, Gallileo, JFK, and MLK, to name some well known whistle blowers.
    Thank you, now I know who is Michael Hastings.
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  35. #35
    Snowjnky McDreamy
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    what about a sit in at a horsey park? If we get there early and take all their parking spots...where will they park their trailers? Let's just start blocking their access in an easy legal way. We can all become hikers for a day and take over! If we do this enough, maybe someone will notice.
    fuuuuuuuck yeah ...i am in.
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  36. #36
    I'm really diggin it!
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    MIDPEN: "How do YOU imagine the future of Open Space?"

    I filled out the survey yesterday.

  37. #37
    Axe
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    Here are the current top voted ideas on that site. I fully expect Midpen to just completely ignore this survey. For some reason, you can't even upvote them any further anymore.

    MIDPEN: "How do YOU imagine the future of Open Space?"-screen-shot-2013-07-31-11.29.52-pm.png

  38. #38
    middle ring single track
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    "Imagine the Future of Open Space: A Vision Planning Process"

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Here are the current top voted ideas on that site. I fully expect Midpen to just completely ignore this survey. For some reason, you can't even upvote them any further anymore.
    It appears that the "process" is still active but the first comment period is closed. It looks like it was set up to run for 90 days and the time has passed.

    A new Vision Plan Survey page is open for additional ideas; there's 60 days left on this one---lets keep hitting them with pro-MTB ideas!

    Take our Vision Plan Survey! | Imagine the Future of Open Space by MindMixer]

    (this is a screen-print; not an embed)

    I hit the "love it" button; BTW what alex D5 wrote for this idea was:

    "Flow trails. Pump tracks. Tabletops. Big berms. Whistler by the bay. Check out the trail system in Hood River County Oregon, built, with government sanction, by local volunteers from all sports. Horses, hikers, bikers and motos all living together happily. We have the numbers. We can do it!"
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  39. #39
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    Yea, while it's nice that we have this survey and the data clearly shows where most of their users that care about the future of the open spaces come from, I have a hard time believing that they will even continue the survey. Pretty sure they were more looking for "more nature centers because the one at Russian Ridge is always overcrowded"..."more cement parking lots"...

  40. #40
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    The people have spoken. Lets see what the Midpen does .

    I had a sort of unpleasant interaction with a ranger at the gap with a meet up group a couple of weeks ago, and I felt like we were being treated like criminals. No tickets were given.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Here are the current top voted ideas on that site. I fully expect Midpen to just completely ignore this survey. For some reason, you can't even upvote them any further anymore.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2013-07-31 at 11.29.52 PM.png 
Views:	127 
Size:	144.9 KB 
ID:	821050
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  41. #41
    middle ring single track
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    Finite Process...

    ...FWIW Vision Plan Project (February 2013 to April 2014) sez MidPen so it continues until next April.

    BTW the flesh and blood portion of this project; the Community Advisory Committee or CAC is made up of these fine members:

    Ann Waltonsmith; City of Saratoga
    Bern Smith; Bay Area Ridge Trail
    Alex Andrade; Silicon Valley Community Foundation
    Carlos Romero; Former Mayor, City of East Palo Alto
    Chris Cruz; West Valley College
    Chris Overington; Executive Director, Hidden Villa
    Debbie Mytels; Associate Director, Acterra
    Dianne McKenna; Sunnyvale Community Leader
    Don Horsley; San Mateo County Supervisor
    Don Weden; Santa Clara County
    Faye Brophy; Equestrian Trail Riders' Action Committee
    Henrietta Burroughs; East Palo Alto
    Jered Lawson; Operator, Pie Ranch
    Joe Simitian; Santa Clara County Supervisor
    John Bourgeois; Los Gatos Planning Commission
    Karen Holman; Palo Alto City Council, Palo Alto History Museum
    Kellyx Nelson; SMC Resource Conservation District
    Kristina Loquist; Policy Aide to Supervisor Simitian
    Larry Watson; South Skyline Association
    Lennie Roberts; Committee for Green Foothills
    Linda George; Responsible Organized Mountain Pedalers (ROMP)
    Paul Nam; Responsible Organized Mountain Pedalers (ROMP)
    Lynn Jackson; District Docent and Volunteer
    Marc Landgraf; Peninsula Open Space Trust
    Melissa Hippard; Program Director, Greenbelt Alliance
    Mike Bushue; Equestrian Trail Riders' Action Committee
    Paul Heiple; Botanist, Acterra
    Philippe Cohen; Director, Jasper Ridge Ecological Preserve
    Reed Holderman; Executive Director, Sempervirens Fund
    Robb Courtney; Director, County of Santa Clara Dept. of Parks & Recreation
    Ruth Waldhauer; Neighbor
    Sarah Rosendahl; Legislative Aide
    Steve Wood; REI Outdoor Education Programs Director
    Sue Garner; Saratoga/Monte Sereno Community Leader
    Valentin Lopez; Amah Mutsen Tribal Chairman
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    Yea, while it's nice that we have this survey and the data clearly shows where most of their users that care about the future of the open spaces come from, I have a hard time believing that they will even continue the survey. Pretty sure they were more looking for "more nature centers because the one at Russian Ridge is always overcrowded"..."more cement parking lots"...
    Agreed, but when the attorneys summon the facts, at least the data is there. I hope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho View Post
    Agreed, but when the attorneys summon the facts, at least the data is there. I hope.
    Are you alluding to a lawsuit on the horizon? Can we as mountain biking taxpayers hold Midpen accountable for not providing equal access? Technically we do have access pretty much everywhere...as hikers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    Are you alluding to a lawsuit on the horizon? Can we as mountain biking taxpayers hold Midpen accountable for not providing equal access? Technically we do have access pretty much everywhere...as hikers.
    Or horse riders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho View Post
    Agreed, but when the attorneys summon the facts, at least the data is there. I hope.
    I see where you are going with this and if you have the time, money and energy I applaud your efforts. Although I admit the idea of forcing MidPen to accommodate mountain bikers invokes visions of rangers, radar guns and 6 foot wide groomed "paths". Even if a lawsuit were to force more equal access MidPen is still tasked with managing the land in a way that balances the different user groups. Telling MidPen they must include mountain bikers is one thing, telling them to make cool singletrack trail for us to ride is another entirely. This seems like a be careful what you wish for scenario. I can't imagine a judge would tell the board they must allow bikes on all trails as they are without consideration for what the board considers to be policies that make a safe experience for everyone. Equal access is not appealing to me personally if that means riding a wide path instead of narrow trails.
    "It's just that nobody likes Cornfish." francois

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    Lots of threads on there about more singletrack trails for MTB's. I added one suggesting & touting the benefits of the IMBA trailbuilding guide, and one "Eliminate Radar Enforcement". Somehow I doubt the latter will get any traction.

    If equal access is a tough case, I wonder if there is a legitimate case regarding the exorbitant fines for going over the speed limit? It's not like bikes are equipped with speedometers, and it's very unsafe to be staring at your cyclocomputer while descending midpen's awful, steep loose gravel-topped fireroads.

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    MIDPEN: "How do YOU imagine the future of Open Space?"

    Quote Originally Posted by cornfish View Post
    I see where you are going with this and if you have the time, money and energy I applaud your efforts. Although I admit the idea of forcing MidPen to accommodate mountain bikers invokes visions of rangers, radar guns and 6 foot wide groomed "paths". Even if a lawsuit were to force more equal access MidPen is still tasked with managing the land in a way that balances the different user groups. Telling MidPen they must include mountain bikers is one thing, telling them to make cool singletrack trail for us to ride is another entirely. This seems like a be careful what you wish for scenario. I can't imagine a judge would tell the board they must allow bikes on all trails as they are without consideration for what the board considers to be policies that make a safe experience for everyone. Equal access is not appealing to me personally if that means riding a wide path instead of narrow trails.
    I understand where you are coming from. As a Marin local I had it dialed for ages. All winter long it was a free for all and the best part is that I would never see anyone. My friends opposed opening the trails for this reason. Well now because of ONE INCIDENT the cozy days of reasonable enforcement are going away. The same could happen in MidPen in fact I'd say it will happen soon as the equestrian groups are likely emboldened by the results of the "Novato incident".

    Keep in mind enforcement will on increase as the population does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I understand where you are coming from. As a Marin local I had it dialed for ages. All winter long it was a free for all and the best part is that I would never see anyone. My friends opposed opening the trails for this reason. Well now because of ONE INCIDENT the cozy days of reasonable enforcement are going away. The same could happen in MidPen in fact I'd say it will happen soon as the equestrian groups are likely emboldened by the results of the "Novato incident".

    Keep in mind enforcement will on increase as the population does.
    As for population increasing, down on the peninsula it is more or less maxed out. Sure the area is still growing but not by hundreds of thousands of people. Mid Pen already enforces the open space preserves in much the same way you describe in Marin. I don't think Mid Pen has the manpower or need/desire to put dozens more rangers out on the trails. There are a bunch of legal, decent trails on the peninsula so poaching from a rangers point of view is likely a small issue. At least when you review the violations given in the latest report from Mid Pen.

    I don't live in Marin so I can't speak to the buzz around town because of the "Novato Incident" but on the peninsula it is a complete non event. It might as well have happened out of state. The equestrians throughout the bay area have a major foot in the door with most of the land managers and they have history on their side. But the number of mountain bikers is growing and it spans all demographics while the number of equestrians is in steady decline and is restricted to a very narrow demographic. There is no doubt in my mind that Marin will feel the affects of the Novato thing in a negative way because it is Marin. I doubt there is a place in the country as anti bike as Marin that also has such a high percentage of extremely wealthy equestrians with time on their hands. Not too mention equestrians that more or less all despise mountain bikers.

    Your Chicken Little fears may come true in Marin but I don't see it changing things on the Peninsula too much. And it isn't like we have any say on "opening trails" anyway. If Mid Pen put the option on the table of course we would take it but currently we are not asked if we would like more trails open to bikes. My point about forcing Mid Pen to give mountain bikes more access is a be careful what you wish for scenario. I can't see getting more access and having it be on the type of trails mountain bikers really want to ride. And lastly, I have yet to see an equestrian on trail while riding on the peninsula over the last three years. I did run across an equestrian on the railroad tracks in Santa Cruz last year, but they were friendly!
    "It's just that nobody likes Cornfish." francois

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    MIDPEN: "How do YOU imagine the future of Open Space?"

    Quote Originally Posted by cornfish View Post
    As for population increasing, down on the peninsula it is more or less maxed out. Sure the area is still growing but not by hundreds of thousands of people. Mid Pen already enforces the open space preserves in much the same way you describe in Marin. I don't think Mid Pen has the manpower or need/desire to put dozens more rangers out on the trails. There are a bunch of legal, decent trails on the peninsula so poaching from a rangers point of view is likely a small issue. At least when you review the violations given in the latest report from Mid Pen.

    I don't live in Marin so I can't speak to the buzz around town because of the "Novato Incident" but on the peninsula it is a complete non event. It might as well have happened out of state. The equestrians throughout the bay area have a major foot in the door with most of the land managers and they have history on their side. But the number of mountain bikers is growing and it spans all demographics while the number of equestrians is in steady decline and is restricted to a very narrow demographic. There is no doubt in my mind that Marin will feel the affects of the Novato thing in a negative way because it is Marin. I doubt there is a place in the country as anti bike as Marin that also has such a high percentage of extremely wealthy equestrians with time on their hands. Not too mention equestrians that more or less all despise mountain bikers.

    Your Chicken Little fears may come true in Marin but I don't see it changing things on the Peninsula too much. And it isn't like we have any say on "opening trails" anyway. If Mid Pen put the option on the table of course we would take it but currently we are not asked if we would like more trails open to bikes. My point about forcing Mid Pen to give mountain bikes more access is a be careful what you wish for scenario. I can't see getting more access and having it be on the type of trails mountain bikers really want to ride. And lastly, I have yet to see an equestrian on trail while riding on the peninsula over the last three years. I did run across an equestrian on the railroad tracks in Santa Cruz last year, but they were friendly!
    Fair enough. I'll I'm trying to say is that it is good to be involved in the process and try and create more opportunities for MTB, rather than enjoying a situation that benefits a few mountain bikers but can change anytime.

    I've been saying increased enforcement and posting illegal rides on Strava is a bad idea for years and look where we are now. I'm not happy about having an "I told you so" moment but here we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Fair enough. I'll I'm trying to say is that it is good to be involved in the process and try and create more opportunities for MTB, rather than enjoying a situation that benefits a few mountain bikers but can change anytime.

    I've been saying increased enforcement and posting illegal rides on Strava is a bad idea for years and look where we are now. I'm not happy about having an "I told you so" moment but here we are.
    I am all in favor of fighting the good fight but based on population, history and demographics I know that changes will be extremely small and take a long time. I still do what I can but in the meantime (single, no kids) I am riding what I want, when I want. I have no "future generation" dog in the fight, I ride for me, now.

    Getting involved and creating more opportunities AND working the system in place to get the riding in I want do not have to be mutually exclusive.
    "It's just that nobody likes Cornfish." francois

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