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  1. #101
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    Any you get some socks!

  2. #102
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    For those that put bottles on the frame, how do you keep them from getting all dirty?

  3. #103
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    Anyone ever worry about going over the bars and landing on a fanny pack?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinewmexico View Post
    Anyone ever worry about going over the bars and landing on a fanny pack?
    Nope, I'm more worried about landing on rocks. How does a fanny pack differ from jersey pockets stuffed with supplies?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjhiker View Post
    For those that put bottles on the frame, how do you keep them from getting all dirty?
    Attempting to keep them clean seems like a losing proposition so I just don't worry about it. I've known a few folks with an aversion to wrapping their lips around a dirty nipple and they've used bottles with a flip-top guard that keeps the nipple clean and fresh.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
    Attempting to keep them clean seems like a losing proposition so I just don't worry about it. I've known a few folks with an aversion to wrapping their lips around a dirty nipple and they've used bottles with a flip-top guard that keeps the nipple clean and fresh.
    Never touch the nozzle. Spray it like a hose. Pre-spray if dirty. Doesn't really get that dirty out here.

    Don't mount under the frame.
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Nope, I'm more worried about landing on rocks. How does a fanny pack differ from jersey pockets stuffed with supplies?
    The rapid pack has some padding in it, so probably more protection than just jersey pockets.

    I've thought about landing on the water bottle, but I really don't think it's easy to land flat on my back.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Never touch the nozzle. Spray it like a hose. Pre-spray if dirty. Doesn't really get that dirty out here.

    Don't mount under the frame.
    Why are you anti-nipple?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Never touch the nozzle. Spray it like a hose. Pre-spray if dirty. Doesn't really get that dirty out here.

    Don't mount under the frame.
    Last I checked, we are mountain bikers. We eat dirt for breakfast.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  10. #110
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
    I've known a few folks with an aversion to wrapping their lips around a dirty nipple...
    Define dirty.
    One gear for all, 'cus one is all you need.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by 69tr6r View Post
    The rapid pack has some padding in it, so probably more protection than just jersey pockets.

    I've thought about landing on the water bottle, but I really don't think it's easy to land flat on my back.
    You'd be surprised.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Yeah. Long-ass bottle. And put a bottle on the frame.

    The Bontrager can actually take two more little bottles on the side pockets.

    And put a bottle drink in your belly during the hour before.

    And put a hydration mix in the bottles during these hot days.

    Very little backpack this year so far. I have gotten thirsty when stupid bike can't take a bottle.

    Now if you're gonna pedal for more than 4 hours on a hot day, then bigass pack may be required.
    I must not be enough of a camel. I tried a bottle only ride, two podium bottles one in the evoc hip pack and one on my frame. 1 water, 1 scratch. I had to cut my ride short at 2hrs and 15mi (yeah I've been off bike for 6 weeks and lost a lot of my stamina) as I was out of water and it was a sub 82F day. Normally if I had even the 1L hyration pack in my evoc I could have done another fork and made it a 20mi ride np.

  14. #114
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    Specialized SWAT mountain bib liner holds 3 each 25 oz water bottles

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukas View Post
    I must not be enough of a camel. I tried a bottle only ride, two podium bottles one in the evoc hip pack and one on my frame. 1 water, 1 scratch. I had to cut my ride short at 2hrs and 15mi (yeah I've been off bike for 6 weeks and lost a lot of my stamina) as I was out of water and it was a sub 82F day. Normally if I had even the 1L hyration pack in my evoc I could have done another fork and made it a 20mi ride np.
    Conditioning and pre-hydrating...

    The other way to look at it is 'short weekday' rides. Sub 2-hour rides, (which is 90% of my riding) should be doable with two bottles.

    Of course, there is no 'water reserve' on bottle only rides. So getting lost, long mechanical or slow group rides affects the outcome.
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  16. #116
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    2 bottles is 50oz+. I drink a lot and top out at 25-30oz an hour at race pace in the heat.
    As far as dirty bottles I drink my top bottle and then transfer my lower dirty bottles water to my clean bottle. Briones is mostly cow poo so I avoid drinking from the lower bottle. Camelbak also has an integrated cover if you want to go that route.

  17. #117
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by piperpilot964 View Post
    owie... my eyes.
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  19. #119
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    I'll post pics up later but here's my setup that I run on both bikes.

    One Up Components EDC in the steerer tube with the stash compartment carrying tie wraps/zip ties, tyre boot and anything else I can in.

    70 or 100cc One Up Pump with co2 cartridge and Dynaplug Racer

    2 x Ti King Cages for water duties on the Waltworks and Lezyne Carbon sideload cage on Switchblade

    Back Country Research straps emit carry inner tube. Mutherload on the Switchblade and Gristlestrap on the Waltworks

    I also carry a Back Country Research Tulbag with elastiplasts, more tie wraps, patches, money, keys etc.

    I also carry my phone everywhere.

    I'm able to do reasonably large rides up to 20 or so miles with this setup so I'm covered most of the time. If I'm venturing out further afield for an all dayer, I'll take my Mission Workshop Hauser hydration pack or Camelbak packed full of everything I'd ever need including knife, lighter, fireworks (you know, the essentials!), food etc etc!

  20. #120
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    How do you like the murherload strap? Seems expensive for what it does

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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonlui View Post
    How do you like the murherload strap? Seems expensive for what it does

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    It just works. Really well, I know people might just think it's a bit of Velcro but it isn't, there's more to it than that, it doesn't move once it's fastened and neither do the bits you put in there. In the past I've had my dyna plug, Pedros tyre lever and co2 in there and it hasn't budged.


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  22. #122
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    Let's re-visit ditching the hydro-backpack

    Here are the pics I promised:









    If I'm riding my Waltworks I'll also carry a Reverb collar in there too. The only difference in my EDC would be the larger pump on the hardtail for the sole reason that I normally run 29 plus tyres on that bike and need the extra volume, I'll also take a Dynaplug Racer with me rather than the Pill shown in the picture above.



    And for those that haven't seen how the One Up EDC Works, here's a quick video of mine on my Pivot.

    https://instagram.com/p/BVUy19VjCmd/

    And a picture on my Waltworks.

    https://instagram.com/p/BWO_TKQjfFF/



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  23. #123
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    Think about it if you have something on your back you are keeping in probably 50% of your core body heat creating a never endless cycle of the need of continuos rehydration. Let your body breath and you will find it will not need as much hydration. Same as your helmet more ventilation adds up to less hydration needed....as it evaporates off your skin it will keep your core tempature lower and you will ride better. Let your bike carry the loads and as someone said earlier hang it anywhere except on the wheels.....

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnbonn View Post
    Think about it if you have something on your back you are keeping in probably 50% of your core body heat creating a never endless cycle of the need of continuos rehydration. Let your body breath and you will find it will not need as much hydration. Same as your helmet more ventilation adds up to less hydration needed....as it evaporates off your skin it will keep your core tempature lower and you will ride better. Let your bike carry the loads and as someone said earlier hang it anywhere except on the wheels.....
    Interesting!!
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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnbonn View Post
    Think about it if you have something on your back you are keeping in probably 50% of your core body heat creating a never endless cycle of the need of continuos rehydration. Let your body breath and you will find it will not need as much hydration. Same as your helmet more ventilation adds up to less hydration needed....as it evaporates off your skin it will keep your core tempature lower and you will ride better. Let your bike carry the loads and as someone said earlier hang it anywhere except on the wheels.....
    Except your back is not going to be the most effective place for you to evaporate sweat, that would be your hands, arms, legs, so the cooling effect isn't going to be dramatic. More efficient athletes can get by with less water, that appears to be a constant in my observations and experiences. I don't equate that due to not running a pack, has nothing to do with it in my experience.

    I do like running a minimalist camelback under a jersey or jacket in the winter to keep it from freezing, works like a charm as long as the hose routes under your shoulder.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  26. #126
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    i know this is the internet and all, and goddamit we need to be right..

    but there is seriously zero harm if we all chose a different option that works for us..no?

    we are talking, backpacks vs fanny packs vs bike storage vs jersey pockets..

    i can truly picture the battle royale in my head. i can honestly swear to telling the truth when i say, i have NEVER noticed what anyone is wearing for water/tools when i see them on the trail. never ever. (damnit,,maybe now i will )
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  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    i know this is the internet and all, and goddamit we need to be right..

    but there is seriously zero harm if we all chose a different option that works for us..no?

    we are talking, backpacks vs fanny packs vs bike storage vs jersey pockets..

    i can truly picture the battle royale in my head.
    Tell that to people in the 29ers suck thread (in the 29er forum). No sense of humor. Maybe it stems from riding a high horse all the time.... lol

  28. #128
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    Lol!! all that rarified air being a 1.5" taller.
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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    i know this is the internet and all, and goddamit we need to be right..

    but there is seriously zero harm if we all chose a different option that works for us..no?

    we are talking, backpacks vs fanny packs vs bike storage vs jersey pockets..

    i can truly picture the battle royale in my head. i can honestly swear to telling the truth when i say, i have NEVER noticed what anyone is wearing for water/tools when i see them on the trail. never ever. (damnit,,maybe now i will )
    that would go against everything internet forums are about... and so not enduro...

  30. #130
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    I have the Camelbak Palos. It is a excellent hip pack if hip packs are your thing. It just gets too unstable on me when I add in the water weight. Maybe if they put some silicone grippage on the hip pack, it would help the stability. Still like the good ole hydration backpack though. So used to it.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    I have the Camelbak Palos. It is a excellent hip pack if hip packs are your thing. It just gets too unstable on me when I add in the water weight. Maybe if they put some silicone grippage on the hip pack, it would help the stability; Still like the good ole hydration backpack though. So used to it.
    Yeah I have one of them too, I just can't get away with it. It just bounces around when it's filled and is so uncomfortable.


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  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    i know this is the internet and all, and goddamit we need to be right..

    but there is seriously zero harm if we all chose a different option that works for us..no?

    we are talking, backpacks vs fanny packs vs bike storage vs jersey pockets..

    i can truly picture the battle royale in my head. i can honestly swear to telling the truth when i say, i have NEVER noticed what anyone is wearing for water/tools when i see them on the trail. never ever. (damnit,,maybe now i will )
    Nothing wrong with understanding what the options are out there either. Getting insight and real-world experiences out there helps one make the best choice for oneself.

    I know people who ride 580mm bars and 150 stems and say, "It's ALL personal preference."

    fc
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  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    I have the Camelbak Palos. It is a excellent hip pack if hip packs are your thing. It just gets too unstable on me when I add in the water weight. Maybe if they put some silicone grippage on the hip pack, it would help the stability. Still like the good ole hydration backpack though. So used to it.
    Mine slips too. I thought about silicone or maybe sharpening the plastic gripper!

  34. #134
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    I bought the Bontrager Rapid pack, and really like it. Most of my rides now are less than 2 hours, and with a frame bottle and one in the pack I should have enough water.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilerz View Post
    I bought the Bontrager Rapid pack, and really like it. Most of my rides now are less than 2 hours, and with a frame bottle and one in the pack I should have enough water.
    When did you buy it? It was largely sold out but looks like it's back in stock again. Direct from Trek.
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  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    When did you buy it? It was largely sold out but looks like it's back in stock again. Direct from Trek.
    i got mine at the Trek store a few days ago..it was the last day of some 15% off sale..so i pounced. saved me a few bucks.
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  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    When did you buy it? It was largely sold out but looks like it's back in stock again. Direct from Trek.
    Summit Bikes in Santa Clara had a few in stock.

  38. #138
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    Update:

    Well 1st of all I'm glad I could inspire and change the world in such a meaningful way with this thread - as Squashyo would say, I am pretty great - and I'll be waiting by the mailbox (or mailboxes) for those socks

    Seriously though, I did my 1st big ride sans backback yesterday in Pacifica area. While it was a big one, I may have been cheating b/c the high was around 69 with lots of fog so not exactly sweating up a storm.

    Overall I loved not having the pack, but I did have an issue I didn't think about - because I was riding some big boy trails in Pacifica, I took my Bell Super detachable full face helmet - I started out the ride with a stout 5 mile climb and really didn't want to wear the helmet at all, but at a minimum definitely didn't want the chinstrap attached. Before I would always strap it to my pack, but I felt I had nowhere good to attach it - I attached it to the handlebars but it was not stable and would bounce around (both the entire helmet and the removable chinstrap) especially on technical climbs - maybe I just need to find a better way or place to attach it - how do ya'll deal with this?

  39. #139
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    Also, I was thinking that I would like to be able to use my water bottle mounts under the down tube, but didn't like the idea of having water under there b/c it's so dirty - has anybody used one of those storage pods on their under the down tube? How did it work? I wouldn't care if it gets dirty but would also be concerned about stability and smashing it against stuff. Something like this:

    https://www.amazon.com/Yopoon-Bike-R...QRC6A6BF0TM9VM

    https://www.amazon.com/Soma-Stash-Bo.../dp/B01GUF8X8E

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    Also, I was thinking that I would like to be able to use my water bottle mounts under the down tube, but didn't like the idea of having water under there b/c it's so dirty - has anybody used one of those storage pods on their under the down tube? How did it work? I wouldn't care if it gets dirty but would also be concerned about stability and smashing it against stuff. Something like this:

    https://www.amazon.com/Yopoon-Bike-R...QRC6A6BF0TM9VM

    https://www.amazon.com/Soma-Stash-Bo.../dp/B01GUF8X8E
    I reviewed that before. Loved it!

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  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Any you get some socks!
    I think the socks are a vicious rumor. A unicorn, a myth.
    One gear for all, 'cus one is all you need.

  42. #142
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    Riding packless is best but horses for courses.
    How else you gonna carry your Stache beer?

  43. #143
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    The mutherload is nice but they never have stock.

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  44. #144
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    I've been riding with bottle under dt for about 2 years now. No dysentery yet.


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  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonlui View Post
    The mutherload is nice but they never have stock.

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    Just go on the waiting list and they'll usually have them ready within a week or two.


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    Thx. I'll do that. Is the hypalon worth it? Not really sure what it is, probably just thicker material but seems to be a good default option.

    Ive been using the specialized non insulated bottles to have a little more capacity. Works well. Just squeeze into mouth rather than suckle it

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  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    I have the Camelbak Palos. It is a excellent hip pack if hip packs are your thing. It just gets too unstable on me when I add in the water weight. Maybe if they put some silicone grippage on the hip pack, it would help the stability. Still like the good ole hydration backpack though. So used to it.
    Just sold mine
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I know people who ride 580mm bars and 150 stems and say, "It's ALL personal preference."

    fc
    A lot of people don't have a lick of sense.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    Also, I was thinking that I would like to be able to use my water bottle mounts under the down tube, but didn't like the idea of having water under there b/c it's so dirty - has anybody used one of those storage pods on their under the down tube? How did it work? I wouldn't care if it gets dirty but would also be concerned about stability and smashing it against stuff. Something like this:

    https://www.amazon.com/Yopoon-Bike-R...QRC6A6BF0TM9VM

    https://www.amazon.com/Soma-Stash-Bo.../dp/B01GUF8X8E
    I have a Fabric tool keg that hold 500ml of water, with a screw on top. I carried water in it, and used it to replenish the bottle in my SWAT bibs. Doesn't matter how muddy or dusty it is because of the jar like lid. You can also carry tools in it, but not both.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    Also, I was thinking that I would like to be able to use my water bottle mounts under the down tube, but didn't like the idea of having water under there b/c it's so dirty - has anybody used one of those storage pods on their under the down tube? How did it work? I wouldn't care if it gets dirty but would also be concerned about stability and smashing it against stuff. Something like this:

    https://www.amazon.com/Yopoon-Bike-R...QRC6A6BF0TM9VM

    https://www.amazon.com/Soma-Stash-Bo.../dp/B01GUF8X8E
    I ran something like that for a while all throughout Moab and rocky AZ riding under my downtube. I never had a problem with clearance. The pod got pretty filthy after a while. In addition it was heavy, I had a tube, multitool, zip ties, CO2, inflator, and a patch kit in it. What started to happen was my water bottle holder would start to fall apart, I tried the Jenson steel cage and another generic aluminum one and both started to come apart after a few months of riding. I switched to an enduro pack for some of it and taped some parts to my bike.

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  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    A lot of people don't have a lick of sense.
    But they have a lot of 'personal preference'.
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  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonlui View Post
    Thx. I'll do that. Is the hypalon worth it? Not really sure what it is, probably just thicker material but seems to be a good default option.

    Ive been using the specialized non insulated bottles to have a little more capacity. Works well. Just squeeze into mouth rather than suckle it

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    I didn't bother with the Hypalon.


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  53. #153
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    Not just speaking of just sweat, the back and the head have the opportunity to release the most heat from ones body. That is why one wears a hat and jacket in the winter to try and keep the heat in and not let the areas get cold. Most amount area wise of blood that circulates not within the body as the heart is. As you stated on those cold rides the fluid doesn't freeze up as the back heat trying to escape keeps it from freezing. Try it some time, riding without, it will be like taking a winter vest off, in the summer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Except your back is not going to be the most effective place for you to evaporate sweat, that would be your hands, arms, legs, so the cooling effect isn't going to be dramatic. More efficient athletes can get by with less water, that appears to be a constant in my observations and experiences. I don't equate that due to not running a pack, has nothing to do with it in my experience.

    I do like running a minimalist camelback under a jersey or jacket in the winter to keep it from freezing, works like a charm as long as the hose routes under your shoulder.

  54. #154
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    I use both depending on a lot of factors.

    The hydration pack is wonderful because it is very accessible and I tend to drink more. It is essential in more demanding terrain where reaching for bottles is a hazard. The downsides: it is heavy, puts more pressure on the saddle area (ow), and (of course) gets hot.

    Riding with no pack is cooler, but I tend to drink less. On a 2 hour ride or less, this isn't a problem. But for bigger rides it can be a problem. I also have trouble getting bottles in and out on demanding terrain, and just have to wait for the less bumpy sections to hydrate. So many times I get caught with my bottle in my hand right when I need both hands on the bars, especially in unfamiliar places, and it gets annoying and disrupts my flow.

    I did a 100 mile race Saturday, so I decided to use a light 70 oz. pack on the first half when it was cooler out, and bottles the 2nd half. That worked out well. I drank a lot more on the first half, which was good because then I was hydrated for the 2nd half. On the 2nd half I did not drink as much even though it was hotter, but it was worth it to not have the heat and weight of the pack!
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  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    I have the Camelbak Palos. It is a excellent hip pack if hip packs are your thing. It just gets too unstable on me when I add in the water weight. Maybe if they put some silicone grippage on the hip pack, it would help the stability. Still like the good ole hydration backpack though. So used to it.
    I'd still like to try a hip/fanny pack but recently bought a CamelBak Skyline, water res is down low and it "feels" much lighter in both weight and airflow around the shoulders. I put gears on my SIR9 and now ride that 70-80% of the time(it holds 2 waterbottles). I pretty much only use this when I ride the Tallboy LTc.

    CamelBak Skyline 10 LR Hydration Pack


    Let's re-visit ditching the hydro-backpack-91cl30kji5l._sl1500_.jpg
    Last edited by patski; 08-10-2017 at 08:21 AM.

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnbonn View Post
    Not just speaking of just sweat, the back and the head have the opportunity to release the most heat from ones body. That is why one wears a hat and jacket in the winter to try and keep the heat in and not let the areas get cold. Most amount area wise of blood that circulates not within the body as the heart is. As you stated on those cold rides the fluid doesn't freeze up as the back heat trying to escape keeps it from freezing. Try it some time, riding without, it will be like taking a winter vest off, in the summer...
    Well, science has proven that it's our extremities with the most surface area that provide the most cooling, so ears, hands, arms, lower legs, etc. While your back has a decent amount of area, two legs and arms are far more, also moving more in "cleaner" air when running or riding. Protecting your core is important, but as an avid winter rider, it's much easier to do than your extremities. If you can keep the extremities warm, your feet, your hands, you are more than halfway to figuring it all out. If you look at the distribution of blood vessels and capillaries in something like your hands, vs. back, you can see how much more blood is flowing through there at any given time. There is an old myth around that you lose around 45% of your heat through your head, that's been disproven. Still, with a good deal of blood flow, hair and ears, and the surface area, it can be fairly effective still and you need to protect it when it's cold. Your back? Not the same. You might be surprised how little protection we give our core in the winter. Down to the single digits, usually a thin base layer and an XC ski jacket (soft shell plus front-side wind blocker). Down below zero, if it's a race, the same, if it's a slower ride, possibly a thicker layer or a puffy insulated jacket over, but even in the negatives it's easy to overheat your core and have to alternate back and forth. One stretch last winter, returning from a glacier in the -10F or so, I took off and put on my puffy outer layer about 4 times in an hour, because I was just on the edge. At -10 though, you gotta have the extremities figured out pretty well.

    I ride all the time without a pack, summer and winter, so I don't need to "try it". I also ride with a pack a significant amount too. I totally disagree that this makes a huge difference in terms of some sort self-feeding cycle that causes you to use a lot more water and overheat more. The difference is slight and on those muggy hot days, you'll be soaking and miserable with or without a pack (Texas a month ago). Obviously you can take things to the extreme and load up a huge HAWG pack with a ton of weight and extra crap and be dragging that all around, but for a decently sized pack, I don't think there's any self-feeding cycle going on to any real extent. In my experience, the fast guys are simply far more efficient with water usage and don't need as much, meaning they can go with a much more minimal pack, or entirely on water bottles. I noticed this myself when I dropped 60lbs one summer. My water usage went down drastically. Moving weight off your back is good IMO, but again, as long as it's not taken to the extreme, such 30lbs of additional crap on your bike will still feel like cement, sometimes moving things like tools, pump, tube, and so on, you can get a fairly optimal setup with a light water-only pack, on some rides in the summer, this might be preferred because you want to maximize water carriage.

    In any case, no, I do not believe the back releases "most of the heat" from the body. Your core is capable of generating heat and sending it to your extremities, but the extremities are what release most of the heat, not your back. This is well supported by science. Now, it may end up that on rides we are so concerned about not getting our extremities cold that we use pit-vents, lighter jackets and other features to regulate our body heat (a large part of it is done with the face though, balaclava on/off, thin beenie cap on/off), but that's not because the back is more effective at releasing heat, that's simply because our extremities are too effective at it and we need to keep them warm.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  57. #157
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    That's why I abosultely LOVE this jersey for hot summer riding. HUGE vented pits area and it's cheap.

    Royal Turbulence SS Jersey > Apparel > Jerseys > Men's Jerseys | Jenson USA

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  58. #158
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    Irt losing heat at the head..
    Seems to be true that if you wear a warm hat it'll keep you warm. Lots of older folks wear hats. My grandparents wore knitted hats to keep warm. Seems to support the myth that you lose more heat through the head.

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  59. #159
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    I've kicked the idea of a bum bag or saddle pack around because it's apparently all the rage these days, and of course I'm a compulsive buyer. But I've managed to avoid it for these reasons:
    1) I wear a Bell Super 2R on 80% of my rides, and hate pedaling with the chin bar on. I can hang the whole thing off my bars, but it looks dumb and scuffs my frame.
    2) I have a pair of SWAT-style bibs (Pearl Izumi), but hate the feeling of stuff in the pockets, especially anything in the one over my spine. The thought of putting a water bottle, phone, pump, or multi-tool there gives me visions of spine injury in an OTB crash.
    3) Since this is obviously part aesthetic (the whole enduro bro thing), I LIKE the look of the clean lines of my bike without a bunch of shit taped or hanging off it.

    My pack I normally ride with is the CB Skyline 10 LR. It sits low, and doesn't move around descending. The amount of back it covers is really not much more than that Source Hipster linked earlier. It has a nice hip belt pockets for gels, chap stick, and my phone. I can add/remove my chinbar and clip it to the back in probably 30s. It keeps my water nice and cool if I throw some ice in the reservoir, even after 2 hours. Better yet, I can forget about my tools and first aid kit in there, and just adjust the amount of water I carry depending on ride length... just because it CAN carry 3L doesn't mean I have to.

    I do occasionally ride with just a bottle in the frame and my phone in my pocket, but that's just when I'm doing quick laps on a local trail, so if something goes wrong I'll call my wife for a pickup.

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonlui View Post
    The mutherload is nice but they never have stock.

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    They are back in stock as of yesterday


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  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    Update:

    Well 1st of all I'm glad I could inspire and change the world in such a meaningful way with this thread - as Squashyo would say, I am pretty great - and I'll be waiting by the mailbox (or mailboxes) for those socks

    Seriously though, I did my 1st big ride sans backback yesterday in Pacifica area. While it was a big one, I may have been cheating b/c the high was around 69 with lots of fog so not exactly sweating up a storm.

    Overall I loved not having the pack, but I did have an issue I didn't think about - because I was riding some big boy trails in Pacifica, I took my Bell Super detachable full face helmet - I started out the ride with a stout 5 mile climb and really didn't want to wear the helmet at all, but at a minimum definitely didn't want the chinstrap attached. Before I would always strap it to my pack, but I felt I had nowhere good to attach it - I attached it to the handlebars but it was not stable and would bounce around (both the entire helmet and the removable chinstrap) especially on technical climbs - maybe I just need to find a better way or place to attach it - how do ya'll deal with this?
    Griz..if you had a waist pack you could loop it through the waist strap..camel back palos and dakine has a front flap ypu coild slide it through...

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  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonlui View Post
    Irt losing heat at the head..
    Seems to be true that if you wear a warm hat it'll keep you warm. Lots of older folks wear hats. My grandparents wore knitted hats to keep warm. Seems to support the myth that you lose more heat through the head.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    They are also usually wearing a jacket when it's 70 degrees

    All of your extremities are good at losing heat, your head is an extremity, but it's not way more effective than your hands, feet, arms, etc., however, if you cover the other ones up and leave your head uncovered, it may become the "weak point" where you do lose most of your heat, but it's not because it's your head, it's because you covered up the other areas already and that was what was just left. If it was 30F and you covered your head and everything but bare arms and hands, you'd probably lose most of your heat through your bare arms and hands
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andeh View Post
    My pack I normally ride with is the CB Skyline 10 LR. It sits low, and doesn't move around descending. The amount of back it covers is really not much more than that Source Hipster linked earlier. It has a nice hip belt pockets for gels, chap stick, and my phone. I can add/remove my chinbar and clip it to the back in probably 30s. It keeps my water nice and cool if I throw some ice in the reservoir, even after 2 hours. Better yet, I can forget about my tools and first aid kit in there, and just adjust the amount of water I carry depending on ride length... just because it CAN carry 3L doesn't mean I have to.
    Exactly.




    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    I'd still like to try a hip/fanny pack but recently bought a CamelBak Skyline, water res is down low and it "feels" much lighter in both weight and airflow around the shoulders.

    CamelBak Skyline 10 LR Hydration Pack


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  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I have a Fabric tool keg that hold 500ml of water, with a screw on top. I carried water in it, and used it to replenish the bottle in my SWAT bibs. Doesn't matter how muddy or dusty it is because of the jar like lid. You can also carry tools in it, but not both.
    That looks interesting, I'm assuming you've abused it enough to have faith in the mounting system?

    Fabric tool keg


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  65. #165
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    eek!

    Timely considering this discussion. Poor guy. I don't think I'll be carrying my tire pump in there anymore...

    injured student had severed spine

  66. #166
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    That's scary. That's why i didnt like the fanny pack which had the water bottle vertical and centered. The Delaney i own carries the bottle diagonally but its a very minimal pack. I strap my pump on my frame and dont carry a shock pump.

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  67. #167
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    Ugh, poor guy . This is another reason I like to wear a pack. I landed on mine a couple of weeks ago, ended up on my back with my bike tangled in my legs on top of me. Got up and walked away with just a few bruises and minor scrapes. I always wear the bladder directly against my spine with nothing in between.

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  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCWages View Post
    eek!

    Timely considering this discussion. Poor guy. I don't think I'll be carrying my tire pump in there anymore...

    injured student had severed spine
    I saw that too. He must have been out of water. I'd think the bladder would have been a nice cushion.

    I know the second to the last time I wore mine, I went OTB near the end of Porcupine Rim and the water (what little I had left) saved my ass, er... back.
    One gear for all, 'cus one is all you need.

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    I saw that too. He must have been out of water. I'd think the bladder would have been a nice cushion.

    I know the second to the last time I wore mine, I went OTB near the end of Porcupine Rim and the water (what little I had left) saved my ass, er... back.
    I feel the same. So many times I'd landed on my back and I'm sure the pack helped protect me. I even landed with my back against a log with a 3" long broken branch sticking out. Without a pack that would have definitely left a mark.

  70. #170
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    I finally got to try my new pack out on a couple rides up in Tahoe. The thing that bothered me most about Camelbak, and other packs I've tried is...they ride to low for me. I don't want the weight on my hips, it bothers my back (too many back injuries) My new pack has a different harness system, it has no waist strap. The pack needs to be snug, when wearing it...I'm still fine tuning the strap tension, for my sweet spot. I gotta say, the pack didn't move around at all I rode Toad's, Christmas Valley, Hawley Grade, Dardanelles Lake...lots of rocks, drops, and small jumps.
    The pack I'm using is the USWE Airborne 9; it has a 3L/100 oz bladder, water resistant phone pocket, storage, a helmet strap(if you're into that), a four point harness system with suspension straps.
    USWE startpage 2.0
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Let's re-visit ditching the hydro-backpack-img_1984.jpg  

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  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I finally got to try my new pack out on a couple rides up in Tahoe. The thing that bothered me most about Camelbak, and other packs I've tried is...they ride to low for me. I don't want the weight on my hips, it bothers my back (too many back injuries) My new pack has a different harness system, it has no waist strap. The pack needs to be snug, when wearing it...I'm still fine tuning the strap tension, for my sweet spot. I gotta say, the pack didn't move around at all I rode Toad's, Christmas Valley, Hawley Grade, Dardanelles Lake...lots of rocks, drops, and small jumps.
    The pack I'm using is the USWE Airborne 9; it has a 3L/100 oz bladder, water resistant phone pocket, storage, a helmet strap(if you're into that), a four point harness system with suspension straps.
    Hey this thread is about DITCHING the pack! Get yer' own thread!

  72. #172
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    Dude that link about the guy landing on his shit and paralyzingly his legs scared the crap out of me. Maybe I'll strap a pillow to my back from now on.

  73. #173
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    I ditched mine, expect for long expedition rides. Using the Backcountry Research Mutherload, Camel Back Podium water bottle, and Bontrager Rapid Pack.

    Let's re-visit ditching the hydro-backpack-img_6603.jpg
    Such a long long time to be gone
    and a short time to be there

  74. #174
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    Using the Camelbak and Bontrager hip packs a lot. Been very handy for this past heatwave.

    Having a frame bottle is good. Other tricks are: pre-hydrate a bit, energy or electrolyte mix in your drink.
    IPA will save America

  75. #175
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    I've been running my sweat and urine through a water filter straw. It's bitter but the weight saving is worth it I think.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    I'm not sure how this works.

  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    I've been running my sweat and urine through a water filter straw. It's bitter but the weight saving is worth it I think.
    "Its sterile and I like the taste"

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    I've been running my sweat and urine through a water filter straw. It's bitter but the weight saving is worth it I think.
    And with your diet, I'm assuming the urine just comes out in big, fatty chunks? I agree that it is totally worth it - just ordered one

  78. #178
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    Anyone try the evoc hip pack race and like it more than the bontrager and palos lr4? Ita pricey and waa rated with higher ventilation scores amd holds 1.5L by Enduro-Mtb.


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  79. #179
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    Tube and levers under the seat in a plastic bag.
    Everything else including a Dynaplug in the EDC pump.
    I do run a pack at northstar for the protection and extra water/food/pads.
    Let's re-visit ditching the hydro-backpack-20170828_190035.jpgLet's re-visit ditching the hydro-backpack-20170831_134139.jpg

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Tube and levers under the seat in a plastic bag.
    Everything else including a Dynaplug in the EDC pump.
    I do run a pack at northstar for the protection and extra water/food/pads.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I saw this (maybe it was you?) on Instagram, very impressive and I'd be surprised if we didn't see OneUp and Dynaplug getting together on this sometime soon.


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  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonlui View Post
    Anyone try the evoc hip pack race and like it more than the bontrager and palos lr4? Ita pricey and waa rated with higher ventilation scores amd holds 1.5L by Enduro-Mtb.


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    I got the evoc hip pack about a month ago and love it. Haven't gone back to my osprey pack since. Saturday did a 2.5 hr ride with over 3000' of climbing and 17 miles round trip. The 1.5 L of water and the ability to hold 1 summit beer was enough liquid for me during the ride. I like it so much better than all that sloshing around on your back and extra sweatiness of a regular pack.

  82. #182
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    Thanks Duffman! 3k ascent in 17 miles is beast!
    Does it move around a lot of jumps and rocky descents?
    Its not the lightest or the cheapest but ventilation and 1.5L of water is a key draw.

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  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonlui View Post
    Thanks Duffman! 3k ascent in 17 miles is beast!
    Does it move around a lot of jumps and rocky descents?
    Its not the lightest or the cheapest but ventilation and 1.5L of water is a key draw.

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    Most of my riding is a steady climb followed by a long descent. So I will typically drink most of the water on the way up making the pack nice and light for the DH. But honestly I forget it's there and stays in place pretty well on technical stuff and jumps.

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishTales View Post
    I have a camelbak mule that I actually really like for all day rides, but I've never missed it in the last year at UC. The only thing that Sticks on my mind is lack of spinal protection that I felt the bag helped with....
    I thought I saw a post recently about a guy that crashed and landed on his pack. Unfortunately it appears the shock pump severed his spine. Now I don't ride with a shock pump.

  85. #185
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    removed

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    I've been running my sweat and urine through a water filter straw. It's bitter but the weight saving is worth it I think.
    uh. 'thanks' for your extra water yesterday?!

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I finally got to try my new pack out on a couple rides up in Tahoe. The thing that bothered me most about Camelbak, and other packs I've tried is...they ride to low for me. I don't want the weight on my hips, it bothers my back (too many back injuries) My new pack has a different harness system, it has no waist strap. The pack needs to be snug, when wearing it...I'm still fine tuning the strap tension, for my sweet spot. I gotta say, the pack didn't move around at all I rode Toad's, Christmas Valley, Hawley Grade, Dardanelles Lake...lots of rocks, drops, and small jumps.
    The pack I'm using is the USWE Airborne 9; it has a 3L/100 oz bladder, water resistant phone pocket, storage, a helmet strap(if you're into that), a four point harness system with suspension straps.
    USWE startpage 2.0
    I was looking at these packs a while back. The harness system looks really interesting, but I'm curious as to how well it would fit those of us who have boobs. Any ladies have one and care to comment?

    - Jen
    - Jen.

  88. #188
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    Have one what? Boobs or the pack?

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  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig View Post
    I was looking at these packs a while back. The harness system looks really interesting, but I'm curious as to how well it would fit those of us who have boobs. Any ladies have one and care to comment?

    - Jen
    If you're stacked...you might not like this pack. The fit is different from any other pack I've tried. I'll have my GF try it on...I'll let you know what she thinks.

  90. #190
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    ^^^She said that you're not going to like it.

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    Science?

    Not sure what "science" you are talking about but I will surely remember when I get hot to take my shoes off and cold put them on oh and gloves yes that is much preferred to a jacket and hat from freezing. Must be the new science. Oh don't try it you know and hav done it all.......why even bother participating.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Well, science has proven that it's our extremities with the most surface area that provide the most cooling, so ears, hands, arms, lower legs, etc. While your back has a decent amount of area, two legs and arms are far more, also moving more in "cleaner" air when running or riding. Protecting your core is important, but as an avid winter rider, it's much easier to do than your extremities. If you can keep the extremities warm, your feet, your hands, you are more than halfway to figuring it all out. If you look at the distribution of blood vessels and capillaries in something like your hands, vs. back, you can see how much more blood is flowing through there at any given time. There is an old myth around that you lose around 45% of your heat through your head, that's been disproven. Still, with a good deal of blood flow, hair and ears, and the surface area, it can be fairly effective still and you need to protect it when it's cold. Your back? Not the same. You might be surprised how little protection we give our core in the winter. Down to the single digits, usually a thin base layer and an XC ski jacket (soft shell plus front-side wind blocker). Down below zero, if it's a race, the same, if it's a slower ride, possibly a thicker layer or a puffy insulated jacket over, but even in the negatives it's easy to overheat your core and have to alternate back and forth. One stretch last winter, returning from a glacier in the -10F or so, I took off and put on my puffy outer layer about 4 times in an hour, because I was just on the edge. At -10 though, you gotta have the extremities figured out pretty well.

    I ride all the time without a pack, summer and winter, so I don't need to "try it". I also ride with a pack a significant amount too. I totally disagree that this makes a huge difference in terms of some sort self-feeding cycle that causes you to use a lot more water and overheat more. The difference is slight and on those muggy hot days, you'll be soaking and miserable with or without a pack (Texas a month ago). Obviously you can take things to the extreme and load up a huge HAWG pack with a ton of weight and extra crap and be dragging that all around, but for a decently sized pack, I don't think there's any self-feeding cycle going on to any real extent. In my experience, the fast guys are simply far more efficient with water usage and don't need as much, meaning they can go with a much more minimal pack, or entirely on water bottles. I noticed this myself when I dropped 60lbs one summer. My water usage went down drastically. Moving weight off your back is good IMO, but again, as long as it's not taken to the extreme, such 30lbs of additional crap on your bike will still feel like cement, sometimes moving things like tools, pump, tube, and so on, you can get a fairly optimal setup with a light water-only pack, on some rides in the summer, this might be preferred because you want to maximize water carriage.

    In any case, no, I do not believe the back releases "most of the heat" from the body. Your core is capable of generating heat and sending it to your extremities, but the extremities are what release most of the heat, not your back. This is well supported by science. Now, it may end up that on rides we are so concerned about not getting our extremities cold that we use pit-vents, lighter jackets and other features to regulate our body heat (a large part of it is done with the face though, balaclava on/off, thin beenie cap on/off), but that's not because the back is more effective at releasing heat, that's simply because our extremities are too effective at it and we need to keep them warm.

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    ^^^She said that you're not going to like it.
    Lol! Thanks for the info... I'll go with the Osprey pack I was looking at

    - Jen
    - Jen.

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Tube and levers under the seat in a plastic bag.
    Everything else including a Dynaplug in the EDC pump.
    I do run a pack at northstar for the protection and extra water/food/pads.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    What IS that?
    IPA will save America

  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    What IS that?
    An EpiPen that you store in the head tube

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    What IS that?
    I used the CO2 port on the EDC to attach a Dynaplug. It's very secure and easy to install/remove. It doesn't interfere with any of the stuff in the container either. Should be super fast to pull out and plug a puncture.
    Let's re-visit ditching the hydro-backpack-20170828_184158.jpgLet's re-visit ditching the hydro-backpack-20170828_185851.jpg

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    I used the CO2 port on the EDC to attach a Dynaplug. It's very secure and easy to install/remove. It doesn't interfere with any of the stuff in the container either. Should be super fast to pull out and plug a puncture.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Niice. I'll get one. I have a few of those Dynaplug thingies and can do that mod.
    IPA will save America

  97. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnbonn View Post
    Not just speaking of just sweat, the back and the head have the opportunity to release the most heat from ones body. That is why one wears a hat and jacket in the winter to try and keep the heat in and not let the areas get cold. Most amount area wise of blood that circulates not within the body as the heart is. As you stated on those cold rides the fluid doesn't freeze up as the back heat trying to escape keeps it from freezing. Try it some time, riding without, it will be like taking a winter vest off, in the summer...
    The Army/DoD did a study a couple years ago re: heat injuries. They determine that, because the forearms have the greatest surface arterial density of any part of the body, the forearms have the ability to cool the body off fastest. They are like a radiator for the body.

    Anyone who has been through Army infantry (One Station Unit Training, IBOLC, Ranger School, SFAS) training in the last decade or so now is familiar with forearm ice baths. You literally take off your blouse, and dip your arms into a vessel filled with ice and water. Your core temperature will plummet more or less instantly. They've had a vast reduction in heat injuries at Ft. Benning due to this practice alone.
    Death from Below.

  98. #198
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    Anyone prefer the palos lr4 over the evoc race? Looking for
    a hip pack with 1.5L water thats stable and ventilates well.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  99. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The Army/DoD did a study a couple years ago re: heat injuries. They determine that, because the forearms have the greatest surface arterial density of any part of the body, the forearms have the ability to cool the body off fastest. They are like a radiator for the body.
    Fascinating, I more or less stumbled upon this technique, thanks for posting

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    Quote Originally Posted by smoothmoose View Post
    I thought I saw a post recently about a guy that crashed and landed on his pack. Unfortunately it appears the shock pump severed his spine. Now I don't ride with a shock pump.

    Yeah I read that too, super unfortunate. Immediately took the pump out of my pack after that too, also wondered why I even had it, seeing as the chance that adjusting my shock is nil to none! Funnily enough, going back to the pack has been really cool, my bike definitely behaves differently with no water and tubes hanging off it, more fun and flickable. Although I need to love some stuff around as I bumped a low tree at the top of empire and twisted the nozzle on a co2 canister, thought I had a rider behind me with an odd sounding hub for ages!

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