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  1. #1
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    Just found out Demo is closed....

    I'm heading up to Santa Cruz this weekend with a couple friends. Bummed to find out Demo, ie Flow is closed... any suggestions? Skaggs came up as an option? Wilder?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Yup, closed for the last 2 months. I'll pm you about sc.
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  3. #3
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    Is there a projected date for it to re-open?

    Camping in SC for 3-4 days in May... was hoping Demo would be an option.

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    Planning to ride next month 9-11th one of those days in SC

  5. #5
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    Nobody knows for sure, but I wouldn't count on a May opening. First, they have to fix Highland Way, one of many roads in the county that got thrashed this winter, then they have to get in the park and clean up all the trees and slides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    Nobody knows for sure, but I wouldn't count on a May opening. First, they have to fix Highland Way, one of many roads in the county that got thrashed this winter, then they have to get in the park and clean up all the trees and slides.
    Alright, I'll just keep tabs until then. We're planning to use SC as a base and drive to rides, so if we have to do Skeggs instead of Demo I guess that'll work.

    We're fine riding into Demo from Aptos too, so really just need to keep tabs on whether they open the park or not.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    Nobody knows for sure, but I wouldn't count on a May opening. First, they have to fix Highland Way...
    Didn't that take a couple of YEARS last time?

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    Don't get me wrong, not that I want to encourage public disobedience but the closure does not seem to have stopped people from riding it. Just look at Strava. You'd think who ever goes in would be smart enough to not leave any traces! If I remember correctly, violating the closure can result in a misdemeanor...

    Now that the worst seems behind us, maybe CalFire could provide a timetable. May help some be more patient if they know when the re-opening might be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adagioca View Post
    Don't get me wrong, not that I want to encourage public disobedience but the closure does not seem to have stopped people from riding it. Just look at Strava. You'd think who ever goes in would be smart enough to not leave any traces! If I remember correctly, violating the closure can result in a misdemeanor...

    Now that the worst seems behind us, maybe CalFire could provide a timetable. May help some be more patient if they know when the re-opening might be.
    In some popular mountain bike destinations around the country they have volunteer Mobile Trail Crews (MTC). Those crews have had a lot of experience doing difficult cleanup projects. I know they have had a crew like that in the early days of the Downieville trail revolution. It's too bad such a crew is not yet formed for the Demo cleanup.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by adagioca View Post
    Don't get me wrong, not that I want to encourage public disobedience but the closure does not seem to have stopped people from riding it. Just look at Strava. You'd think who ever goes in would be smart enough to not leave any traces! If I remember correctly, violating the closure can result in a misdemeanor...

    Now that the worst seems behind us, maybe CalFire could provide a timetable. May help some be more patient if they know when the re-opening might be.
    Sadly, the land manager also looks at Strava.

    As far as patience - Have you seen the damage to the PAVED roads in Santa Cruz county? Soquel San-Jose? For a short time this winter, there were people who had no idea when the roads that access their homes were going to be available. SC county has worse damage than after the 89 earthquake and the 82 storms in which people died at Love Creek. I can guarantee that Demo forest and recreational opportunities there are not a priority for the state right now, for good reason.
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    Is the road from Watsonville side hosed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Sadly, the land manager also looks at Strava.

    As far as patience - Have you seen the damage to the PAVED roads in Santa Cruz county? Soquel San-Jose? For a short time this winter, there were people who had no idea when the roads that access their homes were going to be available. SC county has worse damage than after the 89 earthquake and the 82 storms in which people died at Love Creek. I can guarantee that Demo forest and recreational opportunities there are not a priority for the state right now, for good reason.
    I wonder if those Strava mountain bikers are able to access Demo easier than the land manager? Maybe they could form an MTC to clear the damage.

  13. #13
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    how does one really "close" a forest? Any Tesla fans...

    Signs signs
    Everywhere there's signs
    ***king up the scenery
    Breaking my mind
    Do this, don't do that
    Can't you read the sign

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    No one's mentioned it so far, at least not in this thread, but my understanding is the main reason for the closure is safety. The authorities that arrange for and provide emergency response and med-vacs for injured cyclists (and hikers if there were any) would not be as able to perform that service with roads out and trails blocked.

    I would imagine they will be none too pleased if they have to go in and provide those types of services for any MTB'er who sneaks in and then gets hurt...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregd72 View Post
    No one's mentioned it so far, at least not in this thread, but my understanding is the main reason for the closure is safety. The authorities that arrange for and provide emergency response and med-vacs for injured cyclists (and hikers if there were any) would not be as able to perform that service with roads out and trails blocked.

    I would imagine they will be none too pleased if they have to go in and provide those types of services for any MTB'er who sneaks in and then gets hurt...
    This.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregd72 View Post
    No one's mentioned it so far, at least not in this thread, but my understanding is the main reason for the closure is safety. The authorities that arrange for and provide emergency response and med-vacs for injured cyclists (and hikers if there were any) would not be as able to perform that service with roads out and trails blocked.

    I would imagine they will be none too pleased if they have to go in and provide those types of services for any MTB'er who sneaks in and then gets hurt...
    by that logic, all backcountry camping, backpacking should be banned. Sure some places require permits so that they know where you are/going but, they aren't driving to you, hiking may take days and their may not be a place to land a helicopter.

    lastly, I am none too pleased with their policies, works both ways. people play the safety card way too much. yes, i understand its their forest, their rules and we should just be happy that we get to visit it when its open. you can disregard me now, I am just overly annoyed with unnecessarily bureaucratic policies at the moment.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel Mot View Post
    by that logic, all backcountry camping, backpacking should be banned. Sure some places require permits so that they know where you are/going but, they aren't driving to you, hiking may take days and their may not be a place to land a helicopter.

    lastly, I am none too pleased with their policies, works both ways. people play the safety card way too much. yes, i understand its their forest, their rules and we should just be happy that we get to visit it when its open. you can disregard me now, I am just overly annoyed with unnecessarily bureaucratic policies at the moment.
    I'm not sure you DO understand that it's their forest.

    They own it. They make the rules. It is not public land. When you own a chunk of land that big, you can make the rules...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    I wonder if those Strava mountain bikers are able to access Demo easier than the land manager? Maybe they could form an MTC to clear the damage.
    Demo is a demonstration forest run by CalFire. So far they've been nice enough to let us play--and build trails--in their forest. A little patience will go a long way. Plus, it's not the only show in town!
    Last edited by dirtvert; 03-28-2017 at 04:59 PM.
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    The question you all are leading up to is: If there were an MTC that wanted to help, who would they contact?

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  20. #20
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    Let's put it this way. We're not just talking about a few trees down here folks. Massive washouts on Hihn's mill etc. We need road crews and bulldozers, not electric chainsaws in people's packs.
    Half the planet is deep into bloody tribal mayhem. We’re just riding bikes (and drinking beer) here.
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  21. #21
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    Find somewhere else to ride people! Demo is awesome, don't screw it up for the entire Bay Area...and for f*#ks sake turn your Strava off, permanently

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregd72 View Post
    I'm not sure you DO understand that it's their forest.

    They own it. They make the rules. It is not public land. When you own a chunk of land that big, you can make the rules...
    I've never been to Demo Forest and haven't ridden up there at all so I'm not trying to argue but was curious how Cal Fire, a government agency *owns* a forest that isn't public property?
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  23. #23
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    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    I've never been to Demo Forest and haven't ridden up there at all so I'm not trying to argue but was curious how Cal Fire, a government agency *owns* a forest that isn't public property?
    Check out the state public resources code for factual information. It includes provisions for recreation although I believe forestry practices are the priority. Don't believe me, read the code - facts are better.

    Don't confuse state property as public property and public access. For instance, CHP has property that isn't public access or a Caltrans service yard. Although those examples don't include recreation as part of the purpose.

  25. #25
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    So just to give you an idea s to priorities. Cal Fire in the Santa Cruz San Mateo unit has 5 staffed fire stations in Santa Cruz County and about the same in San Mateo County. In winter they run between two and three man crews and only one engine per station. So no they are not going to do anything but fire and medicals. The inmate hand crews. There are 5 15 man crews at camp Ben Lomond on Empire grade. The have the task of making fire roads passable, hillsides around stations stable, fire fuel reductions near communities and public spaces. hiking and biking trails back in the boonies are kind of low on the list given the storm damaged major infrastructure. there are three bulldozers, fire roads will be their priority. Just my .02 after working in the Fire unit for 10 years... it's going to be a while
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    Btw, don't mean to sound pissy. In case referencing an 80s hair band was enough of sarcasm alert, I'm not suggesting any type of civil disobedience or protest. I do think it is good to know how to find the codes and regulations that govt organizations run by that if you have comments or suggestions you can better speak their language and understand where they coming from. If you feel so inclined, contact the land operators or your elected officials in polite and mature manner.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Find somewhere else to ride people! Demo is awesome, don't screw it up for the entire Bay Area...and for f*#ks sake turn your Strava off, permanently
    This!

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    Also good to note is that a very large portion of Nisene Marks SP does not have emergency access and is officially closed.
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  29. #29
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    The problem is three-fold.

    The place is a mess with trees and mudslides. The road to access from Calfire and hospitals is broken.

    Calfire is not trail police. They did not take this job to issue $400 tickets to mountain bikers all day long.

    When someone breaks their neck or their femur and requires swift aid and extrication, it CANNOT be done safely. And this was an occurrence twice a month after the new trails were built. So it will happen with big rider numbers.


    Sooo, it is closed. Let us RESPECT their wishes and not try to sneak around and circle around the blockages. When the call goes out for the MASSIVE clean-up, we should be ready to help. It does look like they are not going to open by Sea Otter which brings hordes of enthusiastic riders out there.
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    From the Highway 17 commuters page on Facebook, posted yesterday.....

    "I tried out Highland to Eureka canyon to get from the summit near soquel San Jose rd to Watsonville this afternoon. I don't recommend it. I couldn't tell if it was closed from the direction I came, but it was single lane (or less), covered in packed dirt, squishy mud, and flowing water much of the way. By the time I got to the other end the closed signs were more imposing. It's going to take a while to get put back together."
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregd72 View Post
    I'm not sure you DO understand that it's their forest.

    They own it. They make the rules. It is not public land. When you own a chunk of land that big, you can make the rules...
    WRONG. This land was purchased by the State in 1988 -meaning its owned by the public.

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    You seem to confuse the concept of "ownership" and "access". Yes, we collectively own it. But it does not mean we have unconditional public access to it. Federal, state, county, municipal and other governmental entities have the ability to regulate if/who/when the public can use it.

    In this case, they i.e. Cal Fire under the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection have final say on what goes on.

  33. #33
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    no confusion here. Gregd72 stated that demo is not public land which is incorrect.

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