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  1. #101
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    Eloquent analysis...

    Quote Originally Posted by ElHombre View Post
    The myth of Sisyphus comes to mind... Zeus err DPR/CSP punishing a man/mountain biker for his perceived hubris by making him perform absurd labor, over and over. Camus wrote a great essay about it; looks like the fine folks at CSP have found some inspiration reading...
    ...perhaps 3000 years from now the "Saga of the Jim Donnelly Trail" (or the "Myth of the Two Paul's" ?) will be being discussed in philosophy classes.
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  2. #102
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    I have never ridden here but always wanted to. I just gave this a quick read through and it looks like the park service cut a huge branch off the beautiful old oak rather than put in a go around! It makes me sick to my stomach that they would do something like that.

  3. #103
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    Thanks...

    Quote Originally Posted by M3ichael View Post
    Thanks for the update Paul and all the blood, sweat and maybe a tear or two you've put into the JDT and Coe.

    IMHO the DPR to streamline "Change in Use Policy" is important enough to get some MTBers to come back to Coe and volunteer again.

    Michael
    ...Michael; we'll put you down on the "maybe" list!
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  4. #104
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    I secretly filmed a video of the DPR supervised trail work at Coe, with a staring role by Ranger Stuart Organo

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MLXIash5jAA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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  5. #105
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    You guys are impressive. I would have given up a while back, and just kept riding the trail as is.
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  6. #106
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    Most gratifying to see humor being applied as this is a really hilarious situation.

    Since the disappointments began in March staff are distant and uncommunicative. Perhaps they are afraid of something. That cannot can be the case. They are courageous law enforcement officers.

    Ostensibly all we are waiting for is rain to make the soil workable. The amount of work I'm anticipating we are expected to complete will need the best conditions, or it won't be possible without a number of seasons, or an army of brutes.

    You might conclude that we are digging our own grave by working the trail to death. That's because if the trail gets done how the CSP dictates, they will then hold it out as an example of how all the trails in Coe are supposed to be, and then seeing that the rest of the trails lack this "quality", close the rest of them down. Wouldn't that be nauseating?

    So why proceed?

    Here's a possibility: Change In Use Policy

    The JDT could be purposed to exhibit the qualities that the CSP aspires for a modern multi-use trail. The CSP's declared reliance upon pinch-points and out-slope and upon a monotonous trail topology could be imposed upon the trail and used as an example.

    One reason for the bland trail standards could be to discourage enthusiastic mountain bike use. On the other hand, easy climbing and low risk trails will enable a wider cross-section of society to successfully try and continue to mountain bike.

    At what point do pinch-points get called out as dangerous traps for cyclists? Perhaps when the first novice gets seriously hurt because of one. Wouldn't it be convenient for CSP if a volunteer could be made a scapegoat for such a feature?

  7. #107
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    ReBenching

    If the work involves redoing a perfectly good bench I will not be there.

    If the Trail Supervisor is there I will not be there.

    Let me know when you will actually be doing some viable work.

    EDIT:
    I think moving forward my policy will be every time The Super puts together a re-bench party I will go out and do non-DPR Trail work. The world needs balance.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by SallySalamander View Post
    I secretly filmed a video of the DPR supervised trail work at Coe, with a staring role by Ranger Stuart Organo

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MLXIash5jAA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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  9. #109
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    Tahoe BC and mudncrud, you both show good judgement of the situation.

    That said, all of the switchbacks and climbing turns below the picnic table still need finish work. At a minimum, I would like to get these turns drainage into a more functional state before bigger rains arrive. That and more could have been accomplished by now.

  10. #110
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    Paul's your work is not appreciated by the DPR, please put your energy elsewhere where it is.

    I'll even commit to a brushing day or two if don't work on it
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  11. #111
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    Just stupid, and bad management to boot

    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Yes, as far as the work the "2nd Saturday" gang does; we start at the bottom and build out to the CSP formerly known as the DPR Class One trails standard. (up to the picnic bench)

    Sorcerer and I expect that this work will consume most of this season given that it's projected that the majority of previous MTB volunteers will not wish to take part. (Prolly 80% of the work on the JDT has been done by MTBers) I don't blame you guys that hold off; I've conceded that we've lost this battle but I see this as enabling us to continue the war on other fronts (trails!) We might be wrong on this...

    ....

    As things now stand, until the JDT is completed to CSP formerly known as the DPR satisfaction there will be no other trail projects for us volunteers to work on at Coe. (especially new trails)
    As someone who had to manage volunteers and volunteer groups art of my last job, this isn't a good way to go. As you've noted, this decision by park management will cause them to lose a great many volunteers. I'm stating the obvious, but volunteers donate their time and labor to something they believe in and believe that their efforts make a difference.

    A key to maximizing volunteer projects and efforts is to have a menu of projects, and to be open to new project ideas if they fit in with overall needs and goals. With a backlog of needed work at coe as well as most state parks, it would be foolish to turn down volunteer help because one person has decided that a single project trumps all the rest.

    As to Sorcerer's comment about staff being "distant" since this situation developed, my guess is they got a royal chewing out from a higher up in state parks, likely the person who didn't like the work that had been done. Civil service jobs aren't as secure as partisan rhetoric might lead one to believe.

  12. #112
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    So, is there somebody that the community can complain to at State Parks?
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  13. #113
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    I rode Mission Peak yesterday. After the rain, the Mission Peak trails (actually, mostly fire roads there, as is true on most EBRPD properties) and the tiny bit of singletrack are in fine shape to be worked on (although the singletrack trail maintenance schedule in most of EBRPD seems to be about once every 30 years, as compared to weekly at the Santa Clara County Open Space Authority, so it's a moot point as far as Mission Peak goes). There is a legal half-mile singletrack section at MP and it would be in prime shape for fixing up. So Jim Donnelly may well be the same, especially after more rain this morning.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCallahan View Post
    As to Sorcerer's comment about staff being "distant" since this situation developed, my guess is they got a royal chewing out from a higher up in state parks, likely the person who didn't like the work that had been done. Civil service jobs aren't as secure as partisan rhetoric might lead one to believe.
    Not likely, the issues in Coe are local egos. I know most of the trail "higher ups" in State Parks in Sacramento and they would not be doing that.

    We were some of the conference attendees who took the course where they developed the program for the new Change of Use process at the CA Trails and Greenways Conference in 2010 to support the statewide Programmatic Environmental Impact Report. The pre-conference session was done again this year by Steve Musillami & Karl Knapp, they and others have stated that the long range goal of the Change of Use Program is to make as many trails as possible into multiuse trails. The PEIR is to thwart the logjam lawsuits that get filed to stop projects.

    Volunteer groups working with State Parks in SLO County, in the LA area (Santa Monica Mountains in particular), also in the Auburn area have an entirely different relationship with the Sector personnel in that area. I know this from friends who lead volunteer groups in those areas.

    We have a massive trail reroute project in Montana de Oro State Park that is the first trail project where the Change of Use was applied, and mountain bikes will have access to trails where they were banned 25 years ago, when the project is complete.
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  15. #115
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    Not totally local...

    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus View Post
    Not likely, the issues in Coe are local egos. I know most of the trail "higher ups" in State Parks in Sacramento and they would not be doing that.

    We were some of the conference attendees who took the course where they developed the program for the new Change of Use process at the CA Trails and Greenways Conference in 2010 to support the statewide Programmatic Environmental Impact Report. The pre-conference session was done again this year by Steve Musillami & Karl Knapp, they and others have stated that the long range goal of the Change of Use Program is to make as many trails as possible into multiuse trails. The PEIR is to thwart the logjam lawsuits that get filed to stop projects.

    Volunteer groups working with State Parks in SLO County, in the LA area (Santa Monica Mountains in particular), also in the Auburn area have an entirely different relationship with the Sector personnel in that area. I know this from friends who lead volunteer groups in those areas.

    We have a massive trail reroute project in Montana de Oro State Park that is the first trail project where the Change of Use was applied, and mountain bikes will have access to trails where they were banned 25 years ago, when the project is complete.
    Some points:
    The "no new trails" in the case of Coe was said to have come from beyond the Gavilan Sector or the Monterey District. That's what our Sector and District Staff has told us. In other words, Sacramento.

    Also; much of the Auburn area has to do with SRA's (not SP's); a whole different set of guidelines I've been told.

    I've marveled at what you guy's are accomplishing around SLO-town; I just hope the other foot doesn't drop and that what you've been "accomplishing" doesn't turn into "what we got away with". At Coe, it changed for us overnight.

    A major danger that I see to MTBing in the PEIR is the reliance on the out-dated CSP Trails Handbook; it can be widely interpreted---as we found out the hard way on Coe's JDT.

    As stated (and I'll use quotes since copying may be a no-no) in Chapter 16 section 16.2 "Specifications for multiple use trails including mountain bikes more closely match trail designs for equestrians and Class I hiking trails"

    Fine; I could live with that---Class I trail being "...minimum of 36 inches wide with a preferred width of 48 inches." (page 1-2) A wide single-track but OK...

    But; going back to Chapter 16 we've got this paragraph:
    "Tread Width - Trail tread widths of 60 inches allows for passing of two user groups on the trail surface. Such trail bed should be constructed to 8 feet to accommodate associated drainage structures. A full bench cut is required unless the fill slope material will support the bicycle wheel without sloughing or entrenching. Cross slope of trail bed shall provide proper sheet drainage. Narrower widths of trail may be appropriate, particularly if turnouts are provided, and/or types of uses restricted."

    We (I???) mostly did work on the JDT with the"Narrower widths of trail may be appropriate, particularly if turnouts are provided, and/or..." provision in mind. Local Staff has taken exception to this as they originally wanted the the JDT to be an impossible 6'~8' wide. The compromise in the approved PEF is a 48" wide full-bench which we are going to have to finish the trail to except in some very specific locations where the trail may be as narrow as 28".

    Why don't you give Karl a call a tell him the trouble we're having!?!?
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  16. #116
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus View Post
    Not likely, the issues in Coe are local egos. I know most of the trail "higher ups" in State Parks in Sacramento and they would not be doing that.
    ....
    .

    I wasn't thinking Sacramento - not that high. But Pliebenberg's post is interesting, and he's in a better place to know than I. I'm just drawing on my experience in working in another state agency, as well as having contacts in other gov't dept.s. It's amazing what a chill someone can put on you indirectly if you speak out of turn or inadvertently cross someone else's agenda

    I know you are doing good stuff there in SLO and that's a good thing. I'm thinking here that as the saying goes: "Sunlight is the best disinfectant."

  17. #117
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    Just read this epic and subscribed! Wow.
    I work with State Parks (Sierra District) on trails stuff often. Cool to see Karl K's name. We laid out some sections of the Donner Lake Rim Trail almost 15 years ago! He was also very helpful in keeping a local trail around in Truckee.

    Sorry to digress...

    PS that CSP trails manual needs an updating for sure!!!!

  18. #118
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    In some large proportion the lack of communication is due in great part to staff needing to take all of their leave, scheduling, and perhaps to a small degree the $54 million scandal. This in itself is another issue, but all of the local staff has had to burn up their accrued time off. In the regular world vacations are scheduled so that the work continues. But from what I've seen, when someone leaves, work just piles up or isn't done, at the CSP.

    We just had a park association meeting last night, of which the JDT was not really a focus. However, good communications happened. Our moods have cooled, and we are thinking about moving the main focus trail days to Sundays because our main staff oversight person, the backcountry ranger, is off on Saturdays.

    Rain has quickened our enthusiasm. The switchbacks are not properly finished, and need to be, in order to function properly this winter.

  19. #119
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    There is nothing that gets the notice of State Parks staff more than when you can rally 150-200 volunteers and GET TRAIL WORK DONE. That boosts your credibility tremendously, especially when they remember that a volunteer hour is valued at $24.18 (CA 2010 Value of Volunteer Time | Independent Sector), so 150 volunteers for four hours is $14,508. Give them that four times a year, and that it too much FREE work dollars to ignore.

    What you need more than anything is huge numbers of volunteers to show the State Parks staff that mountain bikers want something bad enough to work for it, to donate almost $100 of free work for half a day, once a month.

    You guys are dedicated and committed, good on ya. Here is hoping that it gets better and easier, and that so many who post here show up to help you. Our work here in SLO is much easier, due in part to the fact that CCCMB rallied 6,784 volunteer hours last season for our SLO County land managers, at a value of $164,037.
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcerer View Post
    In some large proportion the lack of communication is due in great part to staff needing to take all of their leave, scheduling, and perhaps to a small degree the $54 million scandal. This in itself is another issue, but all of the local staff has had to burn up their accrued time off. In the regular world vacations are scheduled so that the work continues. But from what I've seen, when someone leaves, work just piles up or isn't done, at the CSP.
    .
    In the regular world we either do not get vacations or we spend at least half our vacation working.
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  21. #121
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    I'm glad things are...

    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus View Post
    There is nothing that gets the notice of State Parks staff more than when you can rally 150-200 volunteers and GET TRAIL WORK DONE. That boosts your credibility tremendously, especially when they remember that a volunteer hour is valued at $24.18 (CA 2010 Value of Volunteer Time | Independent Sector), so 150 volunteers for four hours is $14,508. Give them that four times a year, and that it too much FREE work dollars to ignore.

    What you need more than anything is huge numbers of volunteers to show the State Parks staff that mountain bikers want something bad enough to work for it, to donate almost $100 of free work for half a day, once a month.

    You guys are dedicated and committed, good on ya. Here is hoping that it gets better and easier, and that so many who post here show up to help you. Our work here in SLO is much easier, due in part to the fact that CCCMB rallied 6,784 volunteer hours last season for our SLO County land managers, at a value of $164,037.
    ...so rosy in SLO!

    I'm not sure about the Monterey District in total but at H W Coe SP alone volunteers log around 20,000 hours yearly. I don't have access to the hard numbers but I'd say that the JDT project has received at least 3500 hours (hell I've put in 400 hours myself) of volunteer effort.

    The CSP is well aware of this and we receive frequent accolades from local Staff.

    There's another way that 20,000 (or whatever) hours needs to be considered, sure those hours represent nearly a half-million $$$ to the State's benefit, but they also represent displacing 20,000 hours of employment for CSP workers.

    Putting it bluntly; we're costing State workers their jobs.

    If actions speak louder than words; that's part of the story being told in our situation.

    Also; some of the local Staff flat out don't trust us doing trail work, I'm not very optimistic that we'll ever get that trust back. (What we build looks too much like a trail bicyclists would enjoy!)

    So, after half a year of no progress at all on the JDT, we finally (as of just yesterday) have a tentative date to resume volunteer work (in the presence of paid CSP Staff)---Saturday November 10th.

    We will start a fresh thread on MTBR when the time gets closer.
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  22. #122
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    Sounds like a job protection issue.

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  23. #123
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    evil chuckle

    Quote Originally Posted by mudncrud View Post
    I think moving forward my policy will be every time The Super puts together a re-bench party I will go out and do non-DPR Trail work. The world needs balance.
    My plan is working!

    And remember; it's the "CSP" now---the "R" in "DPR" stood for Recreation (and we can't have any of that!)
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  24. #124
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    That is a major difference here, In the CASP Coastal Sector, there are two full time and four part time people on the ground who maintain MdO and Morro Bay SP, doing basic repairs, mowing, cleaning bathrooms, etc. They have had no one doing trail work for at least five years, and summer temps used to brush the hiker only trails, but no temp hires now for over a year.

    The office staff works 12 hour days, trying to do 1 1/2 to 2 jobs, since they are understaffed, and the budget means no more employees.

    CCCMB provides work that would never get done vs displacing CASP workers. We are not competition to the CASP, but a free resource that they appreciate and use.
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  25. #125
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    Believe it or not...

    Quote Originally Posted by mudncrud View Post
    In the regular world we either do not get vacations or we spend at least half our vacation working.
    ...most of the Staff I've talked to would rather not be forced into taking their vacation time. I can only guess as to why this has been ordered; from an accounting perspective the hours represent dollars (that can't be spent by the CSP) that inflate the Budget. Getting rid of those dollars make the CSP look even more "broke". (Which is a good thing come election time; think Prop 30)

    Also; it conceptually "spreads work around"---unfortunately, a Maintenance Worker can't do the work of a Ranger or vise versa. Mutter, mutter...
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  26. #126
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    It's not just the CSP...

    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus View Post
    The office staff works 12 hour days, trying to do 1 1/2 to 2 jobs, since they are understaffed, and the budget means no more employees.
    Endemic of poor management practices in bureaucracies everywhere; they'll pay overtime (I'm assuming office staff is not donating their time) by deferring monies from elsewhere but they won't do the right thing and provide adequate staffing levels. (or proper office automation?)

    Are you listening Jerry? (our Governor)
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  27. #127
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    Frankly, the fact that public employees can accrue vacations for ever is a complete abuse of the system. None of us can do that in the private sector. Use it or lose it.
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  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Frankly, the fact that public employees can accrue vacations for ever is a complete abuse of the system. None of us can do that in the private sector. Use it or lose it.

    I think it varies by agency and organization. I used to work for the UC system. You could accrue up to 2 years vacation, and then you topped out, were forced to take vacation days as they accrued.

    The challenge is, you still have to get your vacation approved by supervision, and if your unit is short-staffed, either your vacation gets turned down or your work doesn't get done while you are out. I could see both these latter things happening in state parks.

  29. #129
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    In my public agency, we can accrue 400 hours of vacation time (10 weeks) but then it's the same thing: use it or don't accumulate any more. At least that's what I've been told.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Endemic of poor management practices in bureaucracies everywhere; they'll pay overtime (I'm assuming office staff is not donating their time) by deferring monies from elsewhere but they won't do the right thing and provide adequate staffing levels. (or proper office automation?)
    Those are some good observations. I would note that given the cost of benefits, someone can rack up quite a bit of OT, whether in the public or private sector, before it makes sense to hire another permanent employee. Also, some staff is not hourly. Even low leveled managers can be salaried, and your work day ends up being as long as it needs to be. I don't know if state parks operates like that, but UC does. I had colleagues who were quite cynical about the "raise" they got with a promotion.

    But enough of the thread hi-jack. The whole situation with the JDT really sucks. I'm wondering if it might take someone outside state parks to clean it up. It would be very interesting if slocaus and pliebenberg could both sit down with a state auditor or someone in the legislature who is on the right committee and pro parks and share their very different experiences.

  31. #131
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    I would think it better to get the trail built and let the state parks bureaucracy forget about it shortly afterward. Unless, of course, the park rangers sit there like the overseer in Cool Hand Luke and tell the volunteers they've got a failure to communicate . . . cool hand luke - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by imtnbke View Post
    I would think it better to get the trail built and let the state parks bureaucracy forget about it shortly afterward. Unless, of course, the park rangers sit there like the overseer in Cool Hand Luke and tell the volunteers they've got a failure to communicate . . . cool hand luke - YouTube
    That is basically what is happening. Last trail work day the Trail Supervisor basically stood there and said you will move that four foot bench four feet the side. Yes, I know there is a large granite boulder there but that does not matter, move the trail.

    That is when I decided I would never work for that kid again.

    That along with what they did to Ichabod Tree. That stuff is just nonsense. I will make it a point to do trail work. But will not work for the Trail Sup or the Parks Sup unless there are some significant changes. They lost my support and I can easily clean JDT how it sits.

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    With Photoshop...

    Quote Originally Posted by mudncrud View Post
    That is basically what is happening. Last trail work day the Trail Supervisor basically stood there and said you will move that four foot bench four feet the side. Yes, I know there is a large granite boulder there but that does not matter, move the trail.

    That is when I decided I would never work for that kid again.

    That along with what they did to Ichabod Tree. That stuff is just nonsense. I will make it a point to do trail work. But will not work for the Trail Sup or the Parks Sup unless there are some significant changes. They lost my support and I can easily clean JDT how it sits.

    Long Live the Underground.
    <a href="http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b426/pliebenberg/Henry%20W%20Coe/Jim%20Donnelly%20Trail/VOCal%20April%202012/VOCal%20MMXII/?action=view&amp;current=P4290032.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b426/pliebenberg/Henry%20W%20Coe/Jim%20Donnelly%20Trail/VOCal%20April%202012/VOCal%20MMXII/P4290032.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
    ...it would be too easy to paste a shotgun in place of the McLeod into this photo---I would do it but I have better things to be doing. Besides; the "kid" with his back to the camera (Jim or Tim I forget who) actually did move some dirt that day. For all we know they may have been under orders not to work with the inmates uh err volunteers.

    BTW; that's mudworm and mudncrud next up the trail.

    <a href="http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b426/pliebenberg/Henry%20W%20Coe/Jim%20Donnelly%20Trail/VOCal%20April%202012/VOCal%20MMXII/?action=view&amp;current=P4290033.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b426/pliebenberg/Henry%20W%20Coe/Jim%20Donnelly%20Trail/VOCal%20April%202012/VOCal%20MMXII/P4290033.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
    But most of the day(s) did look like this; that's Tim and Jim (or Jim and Tim) giving orders to the head "trustee" (VOCal's Craig F) while mudworm leans in to eavesdrop.

    Again, these guys may have had orders not to join in; they were there for oversight and the need for a CSP Staff member with EMT certification to be present. Ya don't see ambulance drivers doing much at events do you? (unless somebody gets hurt of course)

    AND; these guys probably don't work weekends on a regular basis (and they prolly would have loved to drink the beer we offered them later but had to turn down because they were still "on-duty")
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  34. #134
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    Perhaps I am being a bit harsh on Jim and Tim and I did see one of them work for about 15 minutes then go sit and talk with the other for about an hour or so.

    I realize he is taking orders. But, the way I look at it is, he carried out the orders so he can take ownership for his handi work. He may be a swell guy to have a beer with, doubt that I will ever know.
    Here's to sweat in your eye.

  35. #135
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    Off topic, but I rode at Coe today and discovered that the top of Cross Canyon Trail south of Coit Road and down to Cattle Duster and Grapevine has been rerouted. Who did that work and when? It's nice.

  36. #136
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    I haven't checked this thread before, but I knew the work was going on and thought that everything was going well. So, I was surprised last month when I happened to be out at the Dowdy Ranch center and heard otherwise. The volunteer (a very nice former ranger) told us that unauthorized trail structures had been installed on the JDT and it had been closed until the issued could be resolved. What?

    After seeing the pictures, I am rather upset. None of these features would be called structures in my opinion (I was thinking of double jumps, wood ladders, teeter-totters, etc.) Then, reading through the thread I can see the unmovable obstacle that bureaucracy has handed the hard working volunteers. Build it EXACTLY this way, or we will shut the trail and make an example of you lawless mountain bikers! This is not what anyone wants, but it is their policy. Not fun, not nice, but we all have to deal with it. I wish it were different, and that mountain bikers had as much of a voice as the hiking/equestrian crowd, but the tide has yet to turn...

    Hopefully this will all get sorted out when trail work begins again in November. I'd like to see the new trail when it is completed. Last time I was out there, I rode up Anza/Jackson and back down Domino Pond/Cattle Duster/Grapevine (with an unnecessary long detour to Kelly Lake). I don't get out that way often, but I am looking forward to the finished JDT product when it is completed. It looks like all of you have been doing a lot of great work out there. I'm really impressed with your dedication and willingness to see this project through, regardless of the bureaucratic hassles.

  37. #137
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    Re-routed!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by imtnbke View Post
    Off topic, but I rode at Coe today and discovered that the top of Cross Canyon Trail south of Coit Road and down to Cattle Duster and Grapevine has been rerouted. Who did that work and when? It's nice.
    Photos???

    When was the last time you rode it? A long time ago?

    I'm not aware of any recent work but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened---I'll go check it out.
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  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3r3r View Post
    I'm really impressed with your dedication and willingness to see this project through, regardless of the bureaucratic hassles.
    Every trail building group will tell you that IS what it takes to get new mtb trails built.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  39. #139
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    Trumped up charges...

    Quote Originally Posted by r3r3r View Post
    The volunteer (a very nice former ranger) told us that unauthorized trail structures had been installed on the JDT and it had been closed until the issued could be resolved. What?
    It rather burns my ass that this info is still circulating; the Ranger who shut us down embellished the situation on the JDT so he could justify his harsh actions.

    When the District Trails Spvr saw those "structures" he had a chuckle which made me feel a little better. ("..structures? I wouldn't call those structures---maybe features ...")

    Probably the "structure" that caused us the most grief was where we (perhaps "I" as it was my idea) split the trail so horses could avoid the low limbs of "Icabod's Oak". Boy oh boy what a lesson learned!
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  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Photos???

    When was the last time you rode it? A long time ago?

    I'm not aware of any recent work but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened---I'll go check it out.
    I thought I'd ridden it within the last few months, but maybe it's been between six months and a year. The work doesn't look recent. I have a feeling it's me.

    It used to be that you went south on Cross Canyon for 0.1 mile south of Coit Road, and then dropped straight down an old fire road (usually overgrown) to Coit Springs Trail (?) if I'm remembering the name correctly. Now there's a branch there to signal that it's closed. You turn left (east) and down a very narrow singletrack to the point where you get to the serpentine rock feature on Coit Springs (?). Maybe that trail was always there but I was missing it on each ride.

    Heading out the door now for a ride (already late) but will check back later on this thread!

  41. #141
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    Same trail, new (ish) sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by imtnbke View Post
    I thought I'd ridden it within the last few months, but maybe it's been between six months and a year. The work doesn't look recent. I have a feeling it's me.

    It used to be that you went south on Cross Canyon for 0.1 mile south of Coit Road, and then dropped straight down an old fire road (usually overgrown) to Coit Springs Trail (?) if I'm remembering the name correctly. Now there's a branch there to signal that it's closed. You turn left (east) and down a very narrow singletrack to the point where you get to the serpentine rock feature on Coit Springs (?). Maybe that trail was always there but I was missing it on each ride.

    Heading out the door now for a ride (already late) but will check back later on this thread!
    OK; that explains it; the re-route has been there for a fair bit (8 years?)---the signs are newer. (a year old?) I think there's even mention of their installation on that "Pliny's Missing Marker Contest" thread if you care to look it up.
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  42. #142
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    Trail work to resume

    PRA Event


    Title:
    Fall Trail Day -- Jim Donnelly Trail
    When:
    November 10, 2012 9:00AM - 3:00PM
    Where:
    Hunting Hollow Entrance and Parking Lot -
    Category:
    Lending a Hand
    Description

    We will work on the realignment of the Jim Donnelly Trail accessed from Hunting Hollow gate. This is a great new multi-use trail that is becoming popular with all users. It's a 3.5 mile trail that starts right across from the first Hunting Hollow creek crossing. It provides a sustainable 10% grade trail all the way up to Steer Ridge Road.

    We'll do trail work rain or shine. It's been dry for a long time, the ground is hard, and conditions will be dusty. We'll focus on widening the trail in the bottom one mile section up to the picnic table.

    We will be working with McLeods, Pick-mattocks, shovels, rakes, loppers, and hand saws. Instruction on safe tool use will be provided.

    We'll meet at the Hunting Hollow Parking Lot at 9AM to organize teams, hand out tools and walk to the work sites. We'll work until 3PM, with a noon time lunch break all together along the trail.

    You will be expected to sign a liability release to participate in this activity. Participants under age of 18 will be required to provide a Parental/Guardian Permission for Juveniles Consent Form.

    Plan on wearing sturdy boots, long trousers and bring work gloves if you have them. Bring a lunch and water.

    Thanks for being willing to help, we're looking forward to a great day in this beautiful park.

    Please contact Paul Nam (email vocinam@yahoo.com) to express your interest in volunteering for this trailwork activity.

    Venue

    Venue:
    Hunting Hollow Entrance and Parking Lot
    Description



    The Hunting Hollow entrance and parking lot is located on the south-west edge of the park on Gilroy Hot Springs Road north-east of Gilroy.

    The Hunting Hollow gate and parking area is open 24 hours a day, year round. You can arrive at the entrance and park any time of day or night. You can self-register for day use or backpacking. Be sure to take a park map with you when you head into the backcountry. You'll find free handout maps at the bulletin board in the parking area. You can also study a large park map stapled to the bulletin boards. Large maps are available for purchase on weekends when the parking area is staffed (in March through June).

    There are no car camping sites at the Hunting Hollow entrance.

    Dogs are not allowed beyond the Hunting Hollow entrance. See Dogs at Coe Park for more information.

    No drinking water is available at the Hunting Hollow entrance, so be sure to bring what you'll need.

    Getting There
    The Coe Park Hunting Hollow entrance is located on Gilroy Hot Springs Road, the same road you take to get to Coyote Reservoir.

    To get to the entrances, take Highway 101 to Gilroy (which is about 10 miles south of Morgan Hill and 25 miles south of San Jose). The distance from 101 to the Hunting Hollow entrance is about 9 miles.

    Take the Leavesley Road exit (County Road G9) and head east.

    After about 1.8 miles, turn left (north) on New Avenue; go a little over half a mile and then turn right (east) on Roop Road. About 3.3 miles up Roop Road, you'll pass the Coyote Reservoir Road on the left.

    The Hunting Hollow entrance is about 3.3 miles past the Coyote Reservoir Road turnoff.[

  43. #143
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    Just rode this trail again last weekend..I must say this is becoming one of my favorite trails really fast! It's a shame we're using volunteer hours to "fix" this trail rather than build more like it!

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    It rather burns my ass that this info is still circulating; the Ranger who shut us down embellished the situation on the JDT so he could justify his harsh actions.

    When the District Trails Spvr saw those "structures" he had a chuckle which made me feel a little better. ("..structures? I wouldn't call those structures---maybe features ...")

    Probably the "structure" that caused us the most grief was where we (perhaps "I" as it was my idea) split the trail so horses could avoid the low limbs of "Icabod's Oak". Boy oh boy what a lesson learned!
    If it helps any, I didn't really believe what he was saying. I think it is one of those things that he had heard from another member of the parks staff, and not directly experienced himself. That tends to amplify things that may already be misleading...

    I was glad to see the pictures and to get the true scoop here. I may need to re-read the thread, but is the IMBA or another local/regional advocacy group aware/involved with what is going on here? If this is coming from outside the district (Sacramento) it might be possible to get some help through lobbying the issue. Don't mean to shift the discussion topic, just wondering if anyone has tried to get help from the top down?

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3r3r View Post
    If it helps any, I didn't really believe what he was saying. I think it is one of those things that he had heard from another member of the parks staff, and not directly experienced himself. That tends to amplify things that may already be misleading...

    I was glad to see the pictures and to get the true scoop here. I may need to re-read the thread, but is the IMBA or another local/regional advocacy group aware/involved with what is going on here? If this is coming from outside the district (Sacramento) it might be possible to get some help through lobbying the issue. Don't mean to shift the discussion topic, just wondering if anyone has tried to get help from the top down?
    Speaking only for myself as someone on the fringes I think this would be good. The Paul's are doing what they can and are doing a very good job but it would be nice to have someone who can bring a bit more light to the subject, say some good words to someone that can create a positive influence.

    Ffive to ten years ago this would have been a non issue. Maybe it is the fact that a lot of work has been put in and Coe is starting to become a destination riding area and some folks a strugglng with the concept.
    Here's to sweat in your eye.

  46. #146
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Down and Dirty

    Hi,

    Here's an attempt to let some pressure out of this thread. Mountain biking is legit. I am a mountain biker. Trail building is simple, but not as simple as one might think. Codes, laws, policy, regulations, permissions, credentials, authorization, and the temerity to wade into all that, are not simple things.

    Here's me and a friend on the Cannell Trail up the hill from Kernville a couple of weekends ago demo-ing a bicycle:



    The photo above is taken in a National Forest. Notice that there are old and thick pine trunks or limbs the trail goes through. Notice, perhaps, that the trail is rocky and technical. Notice that this is a really good trail.

    Trails may seemingly appear like bacteria in a jam jar, or yeast in a wort. However, they develop from individuals who have made a choice to create them. People are like yeast. It is a concern that people might simply consume all the nutrition they can, and then turn tits up.

    We might not like it at all, or parts of it, but the regulations are there to the put brakes on development so as to reduce and discourage the chances of some misguided, even malevolent, or ignorantly damaging activity.

    The JDT and trails that might follow it in Coe are subject to CSP trail building code. At this time, not everything I, mudncrud or Pliebenberg would prefer in terms of trail, may be properly applied in State Park lands.

    Some of us have been described as an over-enthusiastic volunteers. Compliments like that are exceptional and are nice to hear about. But getting a trail built and officially blessed and open is another thing.

    This trail is going through.

  47. #147
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    Did a few laps on JD Sunday, it's clear it's one of the most popular trails in the park with all users. The welcome mat of horse crap to start with and the many horse shoe prints from the day before in both direction show's the Horse folks dig it, the half dozen bikers I saw Sunday were digging it, did not see any hikers but there foot prints were all over. Pretty sad you have to keep reworking a trail that's better than 99% of the other trails in Coe.

    Maybe I'll come out Saturday and see how many laps I can get in on JD while, just need to start working on a list of smart ass comments to direct towards Boss King each time I pass.

    In the spirit of Sally's video, here is another one that reminds me of the ongoing work going on JD.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oudNoKfNUfs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Go get that KOM "You Deserve" - http://www.digitalepo.com/index.php

  48. #148
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    The Hill

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GlWd_RvUzqw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  49. #149
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    Smells like...

    Quote Originally Posted by syslesoppenia View Post
    michaelkorspace com/ ]michael kors wallet

    uggsoldesonlineoutlet com/products_all html ]ugg pour homme

    uggoutletstoreuk com/ ]ugg outlet orlando
    ...spam being fried?
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  50. #150
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    Or if you want to work on a trail where mountain bikers make the decisions you can join us in Pogonip on Saturday. 9am at the bottom of U-Con. Paul N. you need to come visit sometime soon, my schedule is flexible, shoot me an email.

    Drew


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