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  1. #1
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    Intro - eBike / eMTB Bike Shop Guy checking in

    Hey MTBR,

    I'm Mike in SC. We have a bike shop in Santa Cruz, CA - Current eBikes - offering primarily quality eBikes (sales, full-service, and rentals) from; Focus, Haibike, Kalkhoff, Pedego, and Tern. We are also a Brompton dealer.

    I've been an avid bicyclist (MTB) and motorcyclist (dirt) for a few decades now. Our shop has a team of smart bike people who've become very knowledge about quality eBikes.

    I'm not a frequent reader or poster on any forum, but I'll do my best to pop in and offer thoughts periodically. Or, PM for any specific questions about any of our brands, models, etc.


    PS. While we've done a fair bit of research on conversion kits, we don't presently offer them.


    Cheers,

    Mike
    Current eBikes
    Santa Cruz, CA
    www. currentebikes.com
    831-621-2309

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    socks

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    Quote Originally Posted by nilswalk View Post
    long white socks
    Fixed it for you.
    one by nine works just fine but single speed is all ya need

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    Welcome to the NorCal forum Mike, thanks for stopping in.

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    Let me know when you have a Focus SAM2 in for a demo in size large. My leg aint gettin any better and an ebike may be my only real option to keep riding.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  6. #6
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    What trails near Santa Cruz, which are designated open for e-bikes, do you recommend riding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Let me know when you have a Focus SAM2 in for a demo in size large. My leg aint gettin any better and an ebike may be my only real option to keep riding.
    Iím sorry, every SAM2 we can get will sell quick so we are only doing neighborhood test rides. The large units we have are pre-sold. We have 1 small and 1 medium now. Perhaps Focus will surprise us with more units later this year.

    We have some nicely set up 2018 Haibike Xduro Nduros just arriving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    What trails near Santa Cruz, which are designated open for e-bikes, do you recommend riding?
    CA State Parks in our area ( Wilder Ranch, Foest of Nisene Marks and others ), City and County of Santa Cruz, UCSC, all are good.

  9. #9
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    You are brave and earnest or a sacrificial canary in the mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    Iím sorry, every SAM2 we can get will sell quick so we are only doing neighborhood test rides. The large units we have are pre-sold. We have 1 small and 1 medium now. Perhaps Focus will surprise us with more units later this year.

    We have some nicely set up 2018 Haibike Xduro Nduros just arriving.
    I kinda figured any SAM2s were hard to come by right now. I have one more procedure to try on my leg/back soon. So, maybe by then there might be a few large beasts around SC.

    I will take a look at the Xduro and see if it's something I could go for
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    CA State Parks in our area ( Wilder Ranch, Foest of Nisene Marks and others ), City and County of Santa Cruz, UCSC, all are good.
    Don't know how strictly it is enforced but be aware that e-bikes have been explicitly banned at Soquel Demo Forest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nilswalk View Post
    Electric socks
    Fify
    Is my paycheck just a bribe to forget my dreams?

  13. #13
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    Do you know if there are any plans for charging stations to be installed on any of the area trails?

    I'm interested in doing longer rides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    Do you know if there are any plans for charging stations to be installed on any of the area trails?

    I'm interested in doing longer rides.
    What would you do while itís charging? Take a 2 hour nap?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    What would you do while itís charging? Take a 2 hour nap?
    I figured they would have quick-charge stations. Seems ridiculous that it would take two hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adagioca View Post
    Don't know how strictly it is enforced but be aware that e-bikes have been explicitly banned at Soquel Demo Forest.
    adagioca, Yep thanks, understood - which is why we wouldn't indicate Demo as a place to ride. As avid pedal bike riders and active members in our community - we are very active in supporting our local MTB and road bike advocacy groups - we want to provide accurate information and follow the program.
    Mike in Santa Cruz
    Current eBikes: Focus, Haibike, Kalkhoff, Pedego, Tern (and Brompton)
    www.currentebikes.com
    831-621-2309

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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    Do you know if there are any plans for charging stations to be installed on any of the area trails?

    I'm interested in doing longer rides.
    May I ask, like how long in terms of miles?

    1. Modern, quality eBikes have a range of up to 75+ mi using lower levels of assist. But, if used in aggressive riding, at higher levels, it may be more like 25-35 - which is a pretty long MTB ride.
    2. We now have some bikes (Focus JAM2) that can run two batteries for longer range.
    3. Some customers choose to pack an extra battery in their backpack - weight is about 6 lbs.
    4. As RB later notes, present eBike charge technology are not "fast charge".
    Mike in Santa Cruz
    Current eBikes: Focus, Haibike, Kalkhoff, Pedego, Tern (and Brompton)
    www.currentebikes.com
    831-621-2309

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    May I ask, like how long in terms of miles?

    1. Modern, quality eBikes have a range of up to 75+ mi using lower levels of assist. But, if used in aggressive riding, at higher levels, it may be more like 25-35 - which is a pretty long MTB ride.
    2. We now have some bikes (Focus JAM2) that can run two batteries for longer range.
    3. Some customers choose to pack an extra battery in their backpack - weight is about 6 lbs.
    4. As RB later notes, present eBike charge technology are not "fast charge".
    100+ mi.

    This is disappointing news, looks like I will have to pedal for now, and wait on the sidelines for technology to improve.

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    Bicycles by definition are human powered. "Ebike" is a euphemism for moped. Nothing wrong with Mopeds, why not call it what it is? Also, I seriously doubt that the state parks allow motorized vehicles on trails. Mike have you done your research?

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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    100+ mi.

    This is disappointing news, looks like I will have to pedal for now, and wait on the sidelines for technology to improve.
    Jeez. My normal bike definitely canít go that far...

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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    100+ mi.

    This is disappointing news, looks like I will have to pedal for now, and wait on the sidelines for technology to improve.
    Drive to the turnaround point and hide a spare battery?
    Is my paycheck just a bribe to forget my dreams?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpressnall View Post
    Bicycles by definition are human powered. "Ebike" is a euphemism for moped. Nothing wrong with Mopeds, why not call it what it is? Also, I seriously doubt that the state parks allow motorized vehicles on trails. Mike have you done your research?
    And here comes the e-bike hate, why not call it what it is?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpressnall View Post
    Bicycles by definition are human powered. "Ebike" is a euphemism for moped. Nothing wrong with Mopeds, why not call it what it is? Also, I seriously doubt that the state parks allow motorized vehicles on trails. Mike have you done your research?
    Given that Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz have dig days / ebike demos at Wilder ranch I am pretty sure Mike has "done his research"

    Dig Day at Wilder Ranch with Current eBikes! ‚Äď Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz

    Have you done your research to say they aren't allowed at the areas he mentioned? Because it looks like he is involved with the MTB community and isn't just saying "yeah, sure they are allowed."

    If you disagree that they should be allowed that's a much different position, but from a glance he is not just making it up....

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    Do you know if there are any plans for charging stations to be installed on any of the area trails?

    I'm interested in doing longer rides.
    You're kidding right?

    There's rarely an outhouse anywhere near trails. Once in a while there's one at the parking lot, but out on the trial?

    But hey, if you can get a deer to run on a treadmill out there to generate power, "I'd buy that for a dollar."
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Drive to the turnaround point and hide a spare battery?
    EPOC is supposed to have a hydro pack that can carry a spare battery.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    Iím sorry, every SAM2 we can get will sell quick so we are only doing neighborhood test rides. The large units we have are pre-sold. We have 1 small and 1 medium now. Perhaps Focus will surprise us with more units later this year.

    We have some nicely set up 2018 Haibike Xduro Nduros just arriving.
    Got any JAM2 demo bikes?
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpressnall View Post
    Bicycles by definition are human powered. "Ebike" is a euphemism for moped. Nothing wrong with Mopeds, why not call it what it is? Also, I seriously doubt that the state parks allow motorized vehicles on trails. Mike have you done your research?

    I was kind of waiting for this thread to go sideways from it's attended purpose - which we all knew it would!!

    Mike has been a member of MTOSC for some years now and he has put in several days digging and repairing the trails we all love to ride. My guess is that Mike has put in more time than many on the thread! His shop helps sponsors many events in the area.
    Mike and I started getting into MTBing several years ago together and both grew to love the sport. We have been racing Moto enduro's for years together as well as our sons. Mike and his son are avid MTBers.
    After 30 years of high tech Mike decided to be a part of something he loves and opened a bike shop in SC.
    This IS NOT an outsider to this community! He is out riding the SC trails weekly and he is contributing to the industry in many ways.
    If you don't want to ride an ebike, then don't.
    Everyone needs someone to hate these days I guess!
    Go ride your bike and have fun ............

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dp400 View Post
    I was kind of waiting for this thread to go sideways from it's attended purpose - which we all knew it would!!

    Mike has been a member of MTOSC for some years now and he has put in several days digging and repairing the trails we all love to ride. My guess is that Mike has put in more time than many on the thread! His shop helps sponsors many events in the area.
    Mike and I started getting into MTBing several years ago together and both grew to love the sport. We have been racing Moto enduro's for years together as well as our sons. Mike and his son are avid MTBers.
    After 30 years of high tech Mike decided to be a part of something he loves and opened a bike shop in SC.
    This IS NOT an outsider to this community! He is out riding the SC trails weekly and he is contributing to the industry in many ways.
    If you don't want to ride an ebike, then don't.
    Everyone needs someone to hate these days I guess!
    Go ride your bike and have fun ............
    Actually, it seems like there was a lot of restraint in this thread. There are a lot of riders, who, for whatever reason (youth, fitness, bitterness, resentment, etc.) just don't want to comment because they don't care about arguing about motorized vehicles on trails anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpressnall View Post
    Bicycles by definition are human powered. "Ebike" is a euphemism for moped. Nothing wrong with Mopeds, why not call it what it is? Also, I seriously doubt that the state parks allow motorized vehicles on trails. Mike have you done your research?
    Coe is a state park. E-bikes ARE allowed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregd72 View Post
    Coe is a state park. E-bikes ARE allowed...
    Are you sure?

    "Motorcylces and motorized bikes are not allowed anywhere within park boundaries." (Spelling error from the site)
    https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=25827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregd72 View Post
    Coe is a state park. E-bikes ARE allowed...
    Not according to this website. Is the website incorrect?

    Where You Can Ride

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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    Actually, it seems like there was a lot of restraint in this thread. There are a lot of riders, who, for whatever reason (youth, fitness, bitterness, resentment, etc.) just don't want to comment because they don't care about arguing about motorized vehicles on trails anymore.
    I agree.

    Also, my lawyer advised me to take the fifth.
    Nice e-bike! (sorry about your penis)

    The broken are the more evolved. Rejoice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    EPOC is supposed to have a hydro pack that can carry a spare battery.
    Yeah, that was a joke. Who's going to drive 100+ miles to stash a battery? And then do it again to pick up the spent battery? No one.

    I hope.
    Is my paycheck just a bribe to forget my dreams?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    Actually, it seems like there was a lot of restraint in this thread. There are a lot of riders, who, for whatever reason (youth, fitness, bitterness, resentment, etc.) just don't want to comment because they don't care about arguing about motorized vehicles on trails anymore.
    Guilty as charged.

    ...but here goes.

    I know there's a place for eBikes, but it is hard to see a dedicated cyclist succumb to the eBike allure. It feels like a sell out to the industry. I'd still prefer bikes on trails to be motor free regardless of the industry push to motorize (read: sell more bikes). To that end, I'd like to think that dedicated cyclists would push back on the industry and help establish clear boundaries where mountain bike trails are out of bounds.

    As retailers, I'm certain that bike shops must embrace eBike in order to keep the doors open, lights on and food on their tables. I'd just like to see clear delineation and have the shop owners/retailers help keep it from being blurred.

    But that's just me.
    One gear is all you need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Got any JAM2 demo bikes?
    Hey ziscwg, If you can make it, we will have a booth at the MBoSC Old Cabin Classic MTB Race & Festival this Sat May 19 at Wilder Ranch - going to be a great time.

    We'll have a booth with several bikes you can ride - both Haibike AllMtn's and Focus JAM2's (we expect to have one SAM2 medium). Candidly, the riding locations will be touch and go as the race progresses through the day, but you should be able to get some time on these.
    Mike in Santa Cruz
    Current eBikes: Focus, Haibike, Kalkhoff, Pedego, Tern (and Brompton)
    www.currentebikes.com
    831-621-2309

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    Quote Originally Posted by dp400 View Post
    I was kind of waiting for this thread to go sideways from it's attended purpose - which we all knew it would!!

    Mike has been a member of MTOSC for some years now and he has put in several days digging and repairing the trails we all love to ride. My guess is that Mike has put in more time than many on the thread! His shop helps sponsors many events in the area.
    Mike and I started getting into MTBing several years ago together and both grew to love the sport. We have been racing Moto enduro's for years together as well as our sons. Mike and his son are avid MTBers.
    After 30 years of high tech Mike decided to be a part of something he loves and opened a bike shop in SC.
    This IS NOT an outsider to this community! He is out riding the SC trails weekly and he is contributing to the industry in many ways.
    If you don't want to ride an ebike, then don't.
    Everyone needs someone to hate these days I guess!
    Go ride your bike and have fun ............
    dp400, Appreciate the back up!! ;-)
    Mike in Santa Cruz
    Current eBikes: Focus, Haibike, Kalkhoff, Pedego, Tern (and Brompton)
    www.currentebikes.com
    831-621-2309

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Guilty as charged.

    ...but here goes.

    I know there's a place for eBikes, but it is hard to see a dedicated cyclist succumb to the eBike allure. It feels like a sell out to the industry. I'd still prefer bikes on trails to be motor free regardless of the industry push to motorize (read: sell more bikes). To that end, I'd like to think that dedicated cyclists would push back on the industry and help establish clear boundaries where mountain bike trails are out of bounds.

    As retailers, I'm certain that bike shops must embrace eBike in order to keep the doors open, lights on and food on their tables. I'd just like to see clear delineation and have the shop owners/retailers help keep it from being blurred.

    But that's just me.
    I think you're in the minority on this one. "Dedicated cyclists" join and/or support organizations like MBOSC because they want increased access to trails, increased participation in events, more time on the bike, etc. Those organizations then support and also receive support from the bike industry which now includes the ebike industry. So if you want that bigger piece of the pie which MBOSC and other advocacy groups offer, as a dedicated cyclist you must support ebikes.

    See pages 14-16 for MBOSC's description of how it works: http://sccbusinesscouncil.com/wp-con...CBC-110917.pdf

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    I said, "Nothing wrong with mopeds" Where is the hate? I think mopeds are awesome!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    So if you want that bigger piece of the pie which MBOSC and other advocacy groups offer, as a dedicated cyclist you must support ebikes.
    [/url]

    I disagree with that. It's like saying that if I want a bigger piece of the pie, I need to support motorcycles on local trails (hey! multi-use trails!).

    That pdf doesn't seem to provide any rational description of how it works. You can easily swap out the word 'motorcycle' for 'e-bikes'.

    From that PDF:
    E-bikes / Motorcycles create more cycling opportunities through reduced fitness requirements.


    And I love motorcycles. They're fun. But I don't want to see them on my local mountain bike trails.
    Last edited by Brah; 1 Week Ago at 01:57 PM. Reason: strike not working
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    I think you're in the minority on this one. "Dedicated cyclists" join and/or support organizations like MBOSC because they want increased access to trails, increased participation in events, more time on the bike, etc. Those organizations then support and also receive support from the bike industry which now includes the ebike industry. So if you want that bigger piece of the pie which MBOSC and other advocacy groups offer, as a dedicated cyclist you must support ebikes.

    See pages 14-16 for MBOSC's description of how it works: http://sccbusinesscouncil.com/wp-con...CBC-110917.pdf
    Yeah, I get it. That's why I don't push back too hard on them. And guys like Mike in SC have probably done more for trails and advocacy than 99% of riders and readers here, so if anyone has earned their stripes, it's him. I still can't see myself jumping on that bandwagon. Mountain biking is hard. In my book, it's supposed to be hard. I sort of go out of the way to make it harder on myself (at least with regard to pedaling) and I like it that way.
    One gear is all you need.

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    I'm sure Mike is a great guy and appreciate you standing up for him. I was just questioning the regulations on "mopeds" on state park trails because many parks like Big Basin don't even allow bicycles on trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpressnall View Post
    I'm sure Mike is a great guy and appreciate you standing up for him. I was just questioning the regulations on "mopeds" on state park trails because many parks like Big Basin don't even allow bicycles on trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brah View Post
    I disagree with that. It's like saying that if I want a bigger piece of the pie, I need to support motorcycles on local trails (hey! multi-use trails!).

    That pdf doesn't seem to provide any rational description of how it works. You can easily swap out the word 'motorcycle' for 'e-bikes'.

    From that PDF:
    E-bikes / Motorcycles create more cycling opportunities through reduced fitness requirements.


    And I love motorcycles. They're fun. But I don't want to see them on my local mountain bike trails.
    I don't understand the subtle differences between ebikes and motorcycles well enough to comment on that.

    The one thing that MBOSC and other similar advocacy groups make clear is that they advocate for all bicycles, including ebikes. So if you want a bigger piece of the pie you support MBOSC, and if you support MBOSC you support ebikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    CA State Parks in our area ( Wilder Ranch, Foest of Nisene Marks and others ), City and County of Santa Cruz, UCSC, all are good.
    Uh, pretty sure motorized bicycles, mopeds, motorcycles are NOT allowed in state parks including Niesene, Wilder. and there are signs in UCSC saying motorized vehicles are not allowed.

    Dont spread untruths so you can sell things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    CA State Parks in our area ( Wilder Ranch, Foest of Nisene Marks and others ), City and County of Santa Cruz, UCSC, all are good.
    This is a bold faced lie! Not one of these places allows ebikes. They are expressly forbidden in all Santa Cruz County Parks, in Demo and in Wilder. UCSC is still grey mostly but they are banned on the single track there as well.

    I applaud your bravery for jumping into this forum, but these trail recommendations are way off base. They are self-serving and reckless.

    There is a spot for ebikes (commuting and errands they are as good as cars) but these trails are not them. And no, it doesnít matter how much trail work the proprietor has done.
    Last edited by AaGro; 1 Week Ago at 08:21 PM. Reason: Too harsh

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    I rode Wilder with a couple of buds this past Saturday and we saw a group of six e-bike riders on the Eucalyptus Loop trail. Were they breaking the law?

    According to the MTB Project website, they're allowed.
    https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/701...gletrack-loops

    I didn't see any signs that read "NO E-bikes allowed" and Wilder's website doesn't say anything. So who's right?

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    eBikes not allowed in state parks or JDSF Mendo area

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    CA State Parks in our area ( Wilder Ranch, Foest of Nisene Marks and others ), City and County of Santa Cruz, UCSC, all are good.
    Just to keep this forum up to date: eBikes are banned in all the Sonoma-Mendocino state parks units here on the coast as well as the Jackson (JDSF). Sorry...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    Hey ziscwg, If you can make it, we will have a booth at the MBoSC Old Cabin Classic MTB Race & Festival this Sat May 19 at Wilder Ranch - going to be a great time.

    We'll have a booth with several bikes you can ride - both Haibike AllMtn's and Focus JAM2's (we expect to have one SAM2 medium). Candidly, the riding locations will be touch and go as the race progresses through the day, but you should be able to get some time on these.
    Well, I think I will attend as my buddy and his wife are racing. I certainly know the area well enough to find a trail they are not racing on. i can't race anymore, but I scream at racers to go harder and suck it up on the Enchanted climb as it used to be so much harder.

    I can handle a size M Sam2. I'm kinda inbetween sizes, but usually opt for the large.

    I have yet to get on a Jam2 as I missed out at getting on one at Sea Otter. I hope you have one of those also
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Well, I think I will attend as my buddy and his wife are racing. I certainly know the area well enough to find a trail they are not racing on. i can't race anymore, but I scream at racers to go harder and suck it up on the Enchanted climb as it used to be so much harder.

    I can handle a size M Sam2. I'm kinda inbetween sizes, but usually opt for the large.

    I have yet to get on a Jam2 as I missed out at getting on one at Sea Otter. I hope you have one of those also
    Cool. We'll definitely have a few JAM2's. FWIW, while we are still tight on the JAM2, they are in better supply than the SAM2.
    Mike in Santa Cruz
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    Yep, eBikes are presently restricted in Soquel Demonstration State Forest.

    I've personally spoken to representatives of the City of Santa Cruz, County of Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz District of CA State Parks and UCSC. They all allow legal eBikes on their bike trails.
    Mike in Santa Cruz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    Yep, eBikes are presently restricted in Soquel Demonstration State Forest.

    I've personally spoken to representatives of the City of Santa Cruz, County of Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz District of CA State Parks and UCSC. They all allow legal eBikes on their bike trails.
    Mike, what is the definition of a legal eBike?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ubermustang View Post
    I rode Wilder with a couple of buds this past Saturday and we saw a group of six e-bike riders on the Eucalyptus Loop trail. Were they breaking the law?

    According to the MTB Project website, they're allowed.
    https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/701...gletrack-loops

    I didn't see any signs that read "NO E-bikes allowed" and Wilder's website doesn't say anything. So who's right?
    I'm right...................
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    If you poach on your acoustic bike and incessantly try to protect NorCal from electric-assist bikes poaching what were designated "non-motorized trails" 50 years ago, I invite you to go have sex with yourself. Good grief....

    If you follow all trail rules, God bless you and fight on against ebikes... but its kind of like rooting against the Golden State Warriors at this point.

    Whatever you pedal, be nice & say hi. Ding your bell when rounding blind turns. Slow and say hello. Yield to pedestrians and equestrians. Ride it, don't slide it. Show up for trailwork days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Mike, what is the definition of a legal eBike?
    Hey 5k bike, (short version) of a legal eBike in CA:

    Class 1. Under 750W mtr, assistance up to 20MPH. pedal-assist only (motor activates only when pedaled).
    Class 2. Under 750W mtr, assistance up to 20MPH. pedal-assist and a throttle.
    Class 3. Under 750W mtr, assistance up to 28MPH. pedal-assist only (motor activates only when pedaled).

    In CA:
    -Legal eBikes treated like bikes - no registration, insurance, or license required.
    -On pavement, the default is Class 1 and 2 may go anywhere a bicycle is allowed. A Class 3 is supposed to remain on the roadway or a bike lane (not multi-use pathways).
    -On dirt - it's left up to land manager

    For perspective, a 750W mtr equals about 1 HP. The vast majority of eBikes are Class 1 with motors that are 250-500W made by Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha, etc.
    Mike in Santa Cruz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    Yep, eBikes are presently restricted in Soquel Demonstration State Forest.

    I've personally spoken to representatives of the City of Santa Cruz, County of Santa Cruz, Santa Cruz District of CA State Parks and UCSC. They all allow legal eBikes on their bike trails.
    Hi Mike -

    Speaking to a representative doesnít necessarily represent policy and you can typically get the response you want by asking the question a specific way.

    For now, signage at EMT and Demo expressly forbid e-bikes. The policy at Wilder is fire road access is legal, single tracks are not - signage is inconsistent at best. In Santa Cruz county, policy is multi-use paved trails permitted, fire roads permitted, trails not.

    As an aside, Wilder also has a 15 mph speed limit. Not that any bike rider is truly paying attention to it.

    On the upside for eMTB, Santa Clara County has a policy that allows all class 1 and 2 eBikes on any county trail. That is nearly 400 miles of legal and approved access just over the hill.

    Seems fair to be transparent on both sides.

    A

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    If you poach on your acoustic bike and incessantly try to protect NorCal from electric-assist bikes poaching what were designated "non-motorized trails" 50 years ago, I invite you to go have sex with yourself. Good grief....

    If you follow all trail rules, God bless you and fight on against ebikes... but its kind of like rooting against the Golden State Warriors at this point.

    Whatever you pedal, be nice & say hi. Ding your bell when rounding blind turns. Slow and say hello. Yield to pedestrians and equestrians. Ride it, don't slide it. Show up for trailwork days.
    I heart you.

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    Mike - A bit of searching around the internet and it looks pretty easy to get around speed limiters from all the manufacturers.

    The line between dirt bikes and electric bicycles is getting more blurry with electric dirt bikes and higher powered ebikes... it's also hard to spot some ebikes unless they're whipping by you (batteries tucked nicely into the frames like the Focus Jam2, Specialized Levo).

    Mountain bikers (or anyone really) tend to adhere to the laws that they would like to listen to, and actual enforcement of ebike bans would be spotty at best (even over at midpen )

    The closest public legal dirt bike tracks are in San Jose and Hollister. If the State Park Santa Cruz District bans ebikes, that would bring the public legal e-mtb in the county to only the fireroads at UCSC (ha) and City of Santa Cruz. You mentioned County of Santa Cruz parks but there are no legal bike trail systems at any county park atm. San Vincente draft public access plan has a blanket ban on ebikes.


    With all these points in mind, what made you decide to open an e-bike shop selling e-mtb in Santa Cruz?
    I guess I'm looking for your overall philosophy of the intersection of trail use and human nature. Lol, nothing too hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaGro View Post
    Hi Mike -

    Speaking to a representative doesnít necessarily represent policy and you can typically get the response you want by asking the question a specific way.

    For now, signage at EMT and Demo expressly forbid e-bikes. The policy at Wilder is fire road access is legal, single tracks are not - signage is inconsistent at best. In Santa Cruz county, policy is multi-use paved trails permitted, fire roads permitted, trails not.

    As an aside, Wilder also has a 15 mph speed limit. Not that any bike rider is truly paying attention to it.

    On the upside for eMTB, Santa Clara County has a policy that allows all class 1 and 2 eBikes on any county trail. That is nearly 400 miles of legal and approved access just over the hill.

    Seems fair to be transparent on both sides.

    A
    Funny I was crafting a similar reply on legality of ebikes.

    Where is the sign at Pogonip on ebike use? There shouldn't be anything particular to EMT vs UConn, both are MUTs in the same city park.
    Is your Wilder legal access restricted to fireroad coming from signage or Ranger/Supervisor staff at Wilder?
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    I heard Tesla is coming out with a self driving e-bike. Any truth to that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Widgeontrail View Post
    I heard Tesla is coming out with a self driving e-bike. Any truth to that?
    Not Tesla... Google is.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    Whatever you pedal, be nice & say hi. Ding your bell when rounding blind turns. Slow and say hello. Yield to pedestrians and equestrians. Ride it, don't slide it. Show up for trailwork days.
    If everyone followed these mtb golden rules at all times then there would never be access restrictions based on user conflict... a dream worth working towards?
    "My opinions are often more offensive than my *******." - Twindaddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by kattrap View Post
    Funny I was crafting a similar reply on legality of ebikes.

    Where is the sign at Pogonip on ebike use? There shouldn't be anything particular to EMT vs UConn, both are MUTs in the same city park.
    Is your Wilder legal access restricted to fireroad coming from signage or Ranger/Supervisor staff at Wilder?
    Sign for EMT is at the entrance to the trail on golf-club drive.

    Wilder has been signed with temporary signage since 2013 - according to the head ranger there was no need prior to that - but now, people keep pulling down the temporary signs. And, again according to the head ranger, changing permanent signs requires state level ratification.

    Perhaps my information on Wilder is outdated as I haven't spoken to the ranger there in at least a year - the no e-bikes sign on EMT was there 2 weeks ago.

    Anyone want to volunteer to contact the regional state park authority?
    Santa Cruz District
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    ^^ Unfortunately, that probably won't be enough for us to regain access in wilderness areas. Ebikes are already being used as a reason to keep us out (the whole motorized thing).

    Go Warriors!
    Nice e-bike! (sorry about your penis)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    ...Ebikes are already being used as a reason to keep us out (the whole motorized thing).
    Is this actually true? I feel like it is, but I don't actually have any concrete examples...

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    those names are foreign to me. "sam2" etc.

    i googled a few. WHOA!!! the industry is moving along nicely!!

    honestly, yesterday, i wanted an E-bike as i was wheezing up a hill..but i am NOT there yet. i enjoy the suffering still, but maybe one day, i'll be shopping for the "SAM-8" or something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    Go Warriors!
    Exactly, big game 2 tonight! Go dubs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    If you poach on your acoustic bike and incessantly try to protect NorCal from electric-assist bikes poaching what were designated "non-motorized trails" 50 years ago, I invite you to go have sex with yourself. Good grief....

    If you follow all trail rules, God bless you and fight on against ebikes... but its kind of like rooting against the Golden State Warriors at this point.

    Whatever you pedal, be nice & say hi. Ding your bell when rounding blind turns. Slow and say hello. Yield to pedestrians and equestrians. Ride it, don't slide it. Show up for trailwork days.
    Seriously. How is this even a question anymore.

    If you poach illegal trails you need to change your ways and start building trails legally. If you want to do that the only way you can do it legally in most places is to show up for trailwork days which are put on by your local advocacy group. And since your local advocacy group advocates for ebikes, you advocate for ebikes too. That equates to more ebike sales and more revenue for good honest local businesses like Mike in SC. Simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    ^^ Unfortunately, that probably won't be enough for us to regain access in wilderness areas. Ebikes are already being used as a reason to keep us out (the whole motorized thing).
    Don't worry... while some anti-bike nut jobs do mention ebikes in the W discussion, we still wouldn't be any further along if ebikes never existed. Off road cycling remains a statistical minority and the non-cycling majority will jump at any opportunity to keep any type of wheeled contraption off "their" trails, Wilderness or not. It doesn't help that the International organization that is supposed to advocate for MTB bike access agrees with them regarding W.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    If you poach illegal trails you need to change your ways and start building trails legally.
    Ahahahhaha ahahah. Oh wait, you are serious.

    Good thing I have four lifetimes in which to engage with the byzantine Bay Area land management systems, fight the NIMBYs, acquire land, spend a literal generation with it sitting there (Bear Creek Redwoods, Sierra Azul), another decade doing environmental impact reports for a tiny ribbon of compacted dirt on a vegetated hillside, spend 600,000 dollars for said ribbon of dirt (Demo Flow Trail), then eventually see a single three mile trail open that is so packed with sight-seeing hikers that it is impossible to have a good time even riding up it (Mt Umhumnum).

    Good thing I will live to 320 years old, because after all that is done, I'll have a solid hundred years to enjoy my new network of trails on my hovering wheelchair!
    ye' old trailblog: www.most-excellent-adventures.com THE BAY AREA... WHERE IF IT'S FUN, IT'S ILLEGAL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Menso View Post
    Ahahahhaha ahahah. Oh wait, you are serious.

    Good thing I have four lifetimes in which to engage with the byzantine Bay Area land management systems, fight the NIMBYs, acquire land, spend a literal generation with it sitting there (Bear Creek Redwoods, Sierra Azul), another decade doing environmental impact reports for a tiny ribbon of compacted dirt on a vegetated hillside, spend 600,000 dollars for said ribbon of dirt (Demo Flow Trail), then eventually see a single three mile trail open that is so packed with sight-seeing hikers that it is impossible to have a good time even riding up it (Mt Umhumnum).

    Good thing I will live to 320 years old, because after all that is done, I'll have a solid hundred years to enjoy my new network of trails on my hovering wheelchair!
    Haha!

    Loving this thread so far. Mike, what's your top selling e-bike right now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Menso View Post
    Good thing I will live to 320 years old, because after all that is done, I'll have a solid hundred years to enjoy my new network of trails on my hovering wheelchair!
    Wait. Then what could a good honest local business like Mike in SC and a good advocacy group like MBOSC actually be promoting here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Menso View Post
    Ahahahhaha ahahah. Oh wait, you are serious.
    The issues you cite are real, but not what he's talking about.

    It's the people who say, "Don't ride your ebike in UCSC because it's against the rules," who sound very strange. Like the rules are the only thing relevant in making a decision.

    There's what, 200 yards of singletrack designated open to bikes in UCSC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    The issues you cite are real, but not what he's talking about.

    It's the people who say, "Don't ride your ebike in UCSC because it's against the rules," who sound very strange. Like the rules are the only thing relevant in making a decision.

    There's what, 200 yards of singletrack designated open to bikes in UCSC?
    Yeah, I pulled the trigger a little fast there. I agree, if you poach, you can't complain about ebikers breaking arbitrary rules like you are.
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    ^^ I don't think one precludes the other. That's like saying If I speed a little on the freeway I can't complain about sideshows (which was a really fun trail, RIP).

    Was it over when the Germans invaded Pearl Harbor?! #freesocks
    Nice e-bike! (sorry about your penis)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaGro View Post
    Sign for EMT is at the entrance to the trail on golf-club drive.
    Nope. No signs mentioning e-bike / pedal-assist / electronic-assist. Maybe something was taken down (Like you were mentioning with Wilder Ranch)?

    So Many Signs. I actually took pics of them all because I'm kind of pedantic...the signs at Golf Club Drive, the signs at the top of EMT/bottom of U-Conn, the signs at the top of U-Conn... There were almost as many signs as homeless encampments if you want to talk about enforcement problems.
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    You guys actually stop and read the signs?
    Never thought to do that.
    I don't like to read when having fun......

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    Quote Originally Posted by dp400 View Post
    You guys actually stop and read the signs?
    Never thought to do that.
    I don't like to read when having fun......
    I used it as an excuse to stop. I'm pretty sure I have never read all 10+ signs at the Golf Club Drive entrance.
    "My opinions are often more offensive than my *******." - Twindaddy

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    When you're on an eMTB, you have a lot of time to wait for your fellow riders. Might as well read signs. I kid - I'm just fat and need breaks on my regular bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    Hey 5k bike, (short version) of a legal eBike in CA:

    Class 1. Under 750W mtr, assistance up to 20MPH. pedal-assist only (motor activates only when pedaled).
    Class 2. Under 750W mtr, assistance up to 20MPH. pedal-assist and a throttle.
    Class 3. Under 750W mtr, assistance up to 28MPH. pedal-assist only (motor activates only when pedaled).

    In CA:
    -Legal eBikes treated like bikes - no registration, insurance, or license required.
    -On pavement, the default is Class 1 and 2 may go anywhere a bicycle is allowed. A Class 3 is supposed to remain on the roadway or a bike lane (not multi-use pathways).
    -On dirt - it's left up to land manager

    For perspective, a 750W mtr equals about 1 HP. The vast majority of eBikes are Class 1 with motors that are 250-500W made by Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha, etc.
    Class 3 for road riding sounds good from me. Although, I have only seen ebikes for rode that look like hybrids.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    100+ mi.

    This is disappointing news, looks like I will have to pedal for now, and wait on the sidelines for technology to improve.
    Whoa! Iím thinking at 100 mikes you got the regular bike thing down pat. I donít ride that far on the road! Good for you. Iím not worthy to carry your extra battery
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    Guys. Wait. The Chinese just announced they invented the world's first all carbon electric folding full suspension gravel fatbike. Loads of hot new customers in this segment. I'm importing them and reselling them here locally in Santa Cruz. Currently allowed in most wilderness and roads including illegals. MBOSC says they will advocate for new trails required to sustain the massive increase in ridership this will trigger. Volunteers for free trailwork are required immediately. All will receive free beer to maximize stokage. I will have demos available at the big race this weekend. Be there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    That's like saying If I speed a little on the freeway I can't complain about sideshows (which was a really fun trail, RIP).
    It's saying you can complain about sideshows for reasons like: they are disruptive. But you can't complain about them for the reason: they are against the rules. eBikes *will* cause problems. Let's talk about them instead of just whatever arbitrary rules happen to be there today.


    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    Guys. Wait. The Chinese just announced they invented the world's first all carbon electric folding full suspension gravel fatbike.
    I saw something like this the other day. It was on the road... but surely suspension isn't far behind:

    https://www.nycbicycleshop.com/786-l...g-fat-bike.jpg





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    You do realise women read this forum too, right? Getting sick of the casual misogyny on here... mods, why is this tolerated? I'm pretty sure if this was a disabled/racial 'joke' it wouldn't be permitted. Putting "ha" at the end of your sentence doesn't make it any less insulting.

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    Sorry you're so easily offended. Maybe I should have added haha at the end..... lighten up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig View Post
    You do realise women read this forum too, right? Getting sick of the casual misogyny on here... mods, why is this tolerated? I'm pretty sure if this was a disabled/racial 'joke' it wouldn't be permitted. Putting "ha" at the end of your sentence doesn't make it any less insulting.

    Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
    Amen sister!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kattrap View Post
    Mike - A bit of searching around the internet and it looks pretty easy to get around speed limiters from all the manufacturers.

    The line between dirt bikes and electric bicycles is getting more blurry with electric dirt bikes and higher powered ebikes... it's also hard to spot some ebikes unless they're whipping by you (batteries tucked nicely into the frames like the Focus Jam2, Specialized Levo).

    Mountain bikers (or anyone really) tend to adhere to the laws that they would like to listen to, and actual enforcement of ebike bans would be spotty at best (even over at midpen )

    The closest public legal dirt bike tracks are in San Jose and Hollister. If the State Park Santa Cruz District bans ebikes, that would bring the public legal e-mtb in the county to only the fireroads at UCSC (ha) and City of Santa Cruz. You mentioned County of Santa Cruz parks but there are no legal bike trail systems at any county park atm. San Vincente draft public access plan has a blanket ban on ebikes.


    With all these points in mind, what made you decide to open an e-bike shop selling e-mtb in Santa Cruz?
    I guess I'm looking for your overall philosophy of the intersection of trail use and human nature. Lol, nothing too hard.
    kattrap - thanks for the question. Yep, regardless of the regulation, there are always folks who choose to not abide - like exceeding posted speed limits or riding non-legal trails (we all have our decisions to make). We don't trade in de-restriction devices and take every opportunity to inform our customers about applicable regulations.

    A small point, County Park trails include DeLaveaga and legal eBikes are allowed there.

    In the future, perhaps there will be fewer trails on which legal eBikes are allowed, or more? If we look at Europe, which is 5-8 years ahead of the US in eBike usage (depending on country, 20-40% of all bikes purchased now are eBikes), the trend is greater acceptance as folks get to know what a legal eBike is all about.

    Our shop offers 6 brands and 100+ models, about 40 of which are eMTBs. The others are commuters, folding, cargo, cruisers, and various recreational eBikes - so while we are pretty deep in eMTB, the other categories are popular as well.
    Mike in Santa Cruz
    Current eBikes: Focus, Haibike, Kalkhoff, Pedego, Tern (and Brompton)
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    Amen and God bless the ebike. See you on the trailwork crew this weekend for free beers.

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    Don't feed the troll!
    Last edited by 5k bike 50cent legs; 1 Week Ago at 10:33 AM.

  89. #89
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    Mike, I'll be spreading the word about your shop. I have a good friend who cannot ride a traditional bike due to ill health, but staying indoors is driving her crazy and she wants to get out in the fresh air. She's going to to demo an e-bike soon to see if it's something she feels like she can do. IMO anything that helps a sick or disabled person continue to enjoy being outside is a worthy invention.

    Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
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  90. #90
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    Here is a great article / video in the article about eMTBs. The part that sticks with me the most is how great they are for disabled bikers who want keep biking.

    Commencal Meta VS Meta - The E-volution. Is the E-bike here to stay?

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecRider96 View Post
    Don't feed the troll!
    that joke is maybe 40 years old anyways.
    Santa Cruz 5010 C
    Surly Crosscheck.

  92. #92
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    i think an E-bike is a great solution for commuters. our roads are choked. look around and there are single passengers in each car. that makes no sense.

    i know a lady..she isnt in the best shape, and she hates to sweat...she is considering buying an E-bike just to get to work. her commute, is so short..i would walk it. but that is me, not her..she has to make her own life decisions.

    an e-bike takes a bike commute that is too long and could quite possibly get it within the range of "possible".
    Santa Cruz 5010 C
    Surly Crosscheck.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike in SC View Post
    kattrap - thanks for the question. Yep, regardless of the regulation, there are always folks who choose to not abide - like exceeding posted speed limits or riding non-legal trails (we all have our decisions to make). We don't trade in de-restriction devices and take every opportunity to inform our customers about applicable regulations.

    A small point, County Park trails include DeLaveaga and legal eBikes are allowed there.

    In the future, perhaps there will be fewer trails on which legal eBikes are allowed, or more? If we look at Europe, which is 5-8 years ahead of the US in eBike usage (depending on country, 20-40% of all bikes purchased now are eBikes), the trend is greater acceptance as folks get to know what a legal eBike is all about.

    Our shop offers 6 brands and 100+ models, about 40 of which are eMTBs. The others are commuters, folding, cargo, cruisers, and various recreational eBikes - so while we are pretty deep in eMTB, the other categories are popular as well.
    DeLa is City of Santa Cruz. The county park system has two bike pump/jump tracks right now (chanticleer & polo) but no bike-legal trails.

    With the limited weekend-crowded trail systems allowing mtb access at the moment I personally doubt that our local hiker and equestrian groups will have greater acceptance of e-mtb in the next few years. I'm ok with being proven wrong here.

    Any chance of carrying Blix? I'm a fan of having local parts/support for problems, direct to manufacturer. Do any of the brands you carry now have localish support or just go through the shop?
    "My opinions are often more offensive than my *******." - Twindaddy

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig View Post
    Mike, I'll be spreading the word about your shop. I have a good friend who cannot ride a traditional bike due to ill health, but staying indoors is driving her crazy and she wants to get out in the fresh air. She's going to to demo an e-bike soon to see if it's something she feels like she can do. IMO anything that helps a sick or disabled person continue to enjoy being outside is a worthy invention.

    Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
    Thanks Jen!
    Mike in Santa Cruz
    Current eBikes: Focus, Haibike, Kalkhoff, Pedego, Tern (and Brompton)
    www.currentebikes.com
    831-621-2309

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Here is a great article / video in the article about eMTBs. The part that sticks with me the most is how great they are for disabled bikers who want keep biking.

    Commencal Meta VS Meta - The E-volution. Is the E-bike here to stay?
    cassieno, Wow, that's a pretty awesome article from some "hardened" eMTB doubters! Thanks for sharing!
    Mike in Santa Cruz
    Current eBikes: Focus, Haibike, Kalkhoff, Pedego, Tern (and Brompton)
    www.currentebikes.com
    831-621-2309

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by kattrap View Post
    DeLa is City of Santa Cruz. The county park system has two bike pump/jump tracks right now (chanticleer & polo) but no bike-legal trails.

    With the limited weekend-crowded trail systems allowing mtb access at the moment I personally doubt that our local hiker and equestrian groups will have greater acceptance of e-mtb in the next few years. I'm ok with being proven wrong here.

    Any chance of carrying Blix? I'm a fan of having local parts/support for problems, direct to manufacturer. Do any of the brands you carry now have localish support or just go through the shop?
    Hey kattrap, shoot, I'm sorry, you're right, Dela is City. FWIW, I checked again with the City yesterday about their trails and specifically Emma McCrary Trail (EMT) - there are no restrictions on legal eBikes on City trails. Those who would like further confirmation can contact City of SC Parks (831) 420-5270.

    Blix is HQ'd here and they seem like a solid, if young, company. Like virtually every brand, they are getting their stuff made in Asia. Another local shop had already signed with Blix before we opened so we selected other brands. Two of the brands we carry - Focus and Kalkhoff are moving their US HQ's to Santa Cruz right now - they'll be there by the end of June. They are well established European brands, which are owned by the same company that owns Santa Cruz Bicycles - Pon (a large Dutch firm).
    Mike in Santa Cruz
    Current eBikes: Focus, Haibike, Kalkhoff, Pedego, Tern (and Brompton)
    www.currentebikes.com
    831-621-2309

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    Guys. Wait. The Chinese just announced they invented the world's first all carbon electric folding full suspension gravel fatbike. Loads of hot new customers in this segment. I'm importing them and reselling them here locally in Santa Cruz. Currently allowed in most wilderness and roads including illegals. MBOSC says they will advocate for new trails required to sustain the massive increase in ridership this will trigger. Volunteers for free trailwork are required immediately. All will receive free beer to maximize stokage. I will have demos available at the big race this weekend. Be there.
    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Here is a great article / video in the article about eMTBs. The part that sticks with me the most is how great they are for disabled bikers who want keep biking.

    Commencal Meta VS Meta - The E-volution. Is the E-bike here to stay?
    No one doubts they are great for people who for whatever reason cant ride a bicycle, but don't cloud that with the issue of motorized vehicles trying to go places where they are not allowed.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motosc View Post
    No one doubts they are great for people who for whatever reason cant ride a bicycle, but don't cloud that with the issue of motorized vehicles trying to go places where they are not allowed.
    But that's why the issue is clouded. Normal healthy people just to rip up the trails because they are too lazy to get in shape to be able to ride. Fully agree.

    Older / disabled riders is much more murky. If these bikes allow them to ride with their friends on the same trails I see that as a net benefit.

    Currently the legal definition of an eBike is different than that of a motorized vehicle. See above with the class 1-3. The law is currently treating them differently. If that's right or wrong.... Well that's still up in the air.


    I am stuck on the idea of my Dad at 80 stil being able to bike at non-lift assisted parks because of eMTBs. To me that's a pretty powerful image and warrants more thought then just eMTBs are dirt bikes and therefore not allowed. I am of course thinking about "best case" use and willfully ignoring the other real downsides to ebikes. It's like we need handicapped placards for eBike riders to be allowed on trails.

  99. #99
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    Make ebikes prescription only.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMachinist View Post
    Make ebikes prescription only.
    eBike dispensary?

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