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  1. #1
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    If you were to move out of the bay area, where would you go?

    I am so sick of the bs in Marin. When I first moved here 15 years ago, I got really involved in activism, and thought it would change. After a while, I just accepted that we would just poach everything, and not care. A handful of years ago, my in-laws moved to NW Arkansas. I told my wife no way in hell would I ever move there. We go down there every year or two, and holy crap! It has changed. They have built about 150 miles of high quality bike purpose singletrack, plus a couple bike parks. Stuff we in Marin can only dream of. Still not sure, it would be my first choice, but... I do think it is currently the most bike friendly town in the country. Where do you think are the best places to be a mountain biker, preferably in the US?
    If white is the "new black", then thanks but I'll stick with the old black...

  2. #2
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    You might want to check out this thread.
    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?

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    That thread has huge amounts of great information about great places to live other than here. My personal favorite is still the Reno area, but that's just me.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinrider View Post
    I am so sick of the bs in Marin. When I first moved here 15 years ago, I got really involved in activism, and thought it would change. After a while, I just accepted that we would just poach everything, and not care. A handful of years ago, my in-laws moved to NW Arkansas. I told my wife no way in hell would I ever move there. We go down there every year or two, and holy crap! It has changed. They have built about 150 miles of high quality bike purpose singletrack, plus a couple bike parks. Stuff we in Marin can only dream of. Still not sure, it would be my first choice, but... I do think it is currently the most bike friendly town in the country. Where do you think are the best places to be a mountain biker, preferably in the US?
    You're talking about the worst case and best case scenario in the US... Marin and NW Arkansas. The economic and political powers in the area could not be more different as far as the viewpoint towards mountain biking.

    NW Arkansas will get done in the next month what will take Marin 10 years to bicker about. The rest of the country falls somewhere in the middle in terms of mountain bike development.

    Other cool areas seeing growth are
    Bellingham, WA
    Bend, OR ... most of Oregon
    Tahoe, CA
    Durango, CO
    Asheville, NC

    The big question for us West Coast folk is how much can we deal with a real cold winter?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post

    The big question for us West Coast folk is how much can we deal with a real cold winter?
    Wurds.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  6. #6
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    A cold winter is for suckers.
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

    Nature is not a sidewalk (I'm looking at you, MidPen).

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    A cold winter is for suckers.
    A cold winter keeps the suckers out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Other cool areas seeing growth are
    Bellingham, WA
    Bend, OR ... most of Oregon
    Tahoe, CA
    Durango, CO
    Asheville, NC
    Out of curiosity, what kind of growth are you referring to here?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
    Out of curiosity, what kind of growth are you referring to here?
    Oh, trail growth and bike community growth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
    Out of curiosity, what kind of growth are you referring to here?
    True, here is the list of state growth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...on_growth_rate

    As far as new trails? I know Eagle, Colorado is building trail like mad - i.e. Fruita style building like what happened in the 1990's by Troy R. and company. Replacing sidewalks with singeltrack type of stuff. This is an up and coming spot which has desert sagebrush all the way to high country elevations from downtown. It's got a pretty cool vibe, and just 20 minutes from Beaver Creek and 30-ish from Vail. On the western side you have Glenwood/Aspen in under an hour and 90 minutes further is Grand Junction/ Fruita. And Moab is a super easy 3 hour, 30 minute drive. It's about as central to the most amazing riding I've ever been in anywhere in the country. So Eagle, CO should be on the list.

    https://www.outsideonline.com/193058...rack-sidewalks

    https://www.mtbproject.com/directory/8012337/eagle

    MOAB/Park City also have a ton of new trails being built, but you can't buy cold beer in the state run liquor store except for a local brewpub which is really inconvenient. Deal breaker for me. Priorities, right? Utah seems a bit backwards, but fun to visit.

    Idaho has a ton of spots with mentioning too.

    I guess it depends on you are looking weather-wise. In many parts of Colorado you can still buy a 3,500 sq/ft house with a 20,000 sq/ft lot and 3-car garage for under $500K and ride to killer trails. That same house might be $300K in Texas and Arizona (with a pool) and $1.2M+ in Marin/Norcal I would assume. Personally I like change of seasons and snow sports in the winter. Drive 3-4 hours in any direction from Eagle Colorado as an example and you can ride just about anything depending on the surrounding weather conditions.

  11. #11
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    I moved to Ashland from Marin after living in Marin my whole life. Ive been here for 3 months, and the quality of my life has skyrocketed. We originally were gonna rent our house in Marin for a year to make sure we liked it. We knew 6 weeks in we were never going back and sold the place in Marin. Wherever you decide on, pull the plug. Get out of Marin. The place is toxic, and getting worse. Life has improved on every front after leaving. Here, the rangers wave at you as you speed by at 30mph on a singletrack straightaway. Unreal whats going on in Marin right now. Especially when you experience the other side.

  12. #12
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    ^^ We felt like that after visiting for two weeks! It's like a real-life Mayberry, huh?

    (if Mayberry had ripping singletrack)

    The biggest problem in town seemed to be keeping the deer out of your garden.
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

    Nature is not a sidewalk (I'm looking at you, MidPen).

  13. #13
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    Orange County. Weather, food, major airports, mountain biking and golf.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by normarin View Post
    Get out of Marin. The place is toxic, and getting worse.
    Even beyond the MTB situation it's really changed. The overall vibe in Marin is not what is used to be, my wife is a teacher in "Me Valley", you should hear the stories she comes home with...
    People have major entitlement/affluenza issues here. I never thought I could/would even consider leaving, but have been seeing the light lately traveling to other places, etc.

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    Moved from Brentwood (Pleasant Hill/Walnut Creek before that) to Boise. Fantastic riding, and the road isn't bad either, but definitely not better than the East Bay, unfortunately. But the MTB here is leaps better than anything I ever rode in CA near the Bay Area.

    Oh, and it is CHEAP. I am a realtor up here, a huge percentage of new arrivals are either from CA or AZ, but people are coming from all around the country.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by garcia View Post
    Moved from Brentwood (Pleasant Hill/Walnut Creek before that) to Boise. Fantastic riding, and the road isn't bad either, but definitely not better than the East Bay, unfortunately. But the MTB here is leaps better than anything I ever rode in CA near the Bay Area.

    Oh, and it is CHEAP. I am a realtor up here, a huge percentage of new arrivals are either from CA or AZ, but people are coming from all around the country.
    Shhhhhhhh... Don't tell anyone.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho View Post
    Shhhhhhhh... Don't tell anyone.
    Haha, we pop up on the top or near the top of every "best place to live in the US" list that comes out it seems, unfortunately the secret is out...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by normarin View Post
    I moved to Ashland from Marin after living in Marin ...... Unreal whats going on in Marin right now. Especially when you experience the other side.
    ...especially when you experience the other side.


    That's the key statement right there. That's why I seem like I'm sooo anti-midpen. I don't want to be overly negative but once you've travelled around and seen trails around the country and the world, one just gets mad that we're treated like cockroaches here in the Bay Area.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    Orange County. Weather, food, major airports, mountain biking and golf.
    Da hell???
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by garcia View Post
    Haha, we pop up on the top or near the top of every "best place to live in the US" list that comes out it seems, unfortunately the secret is out...
    If you don't mind the winter, want to be able to ski, golf, mountain bike, rock climb and flyfish all on the same day within 1 hours drive, want a house that's paid for, have a trailhead in your backyard that leads to 200 miles of singletrack and unlimited gravel riding, you really can't go wrong with Boise. You gotta love climbing though

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Da hell???
    This ^^

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    ^^ We felt like that after visiting for two weeks! It's like a real-life Mayberry, huh?

    (if Mayberry had ripping singletrack)

    The biggest problem in town seemed to be keeping the deer out of your garden.
    Are you referring to Ashland?

    Then ya, pretty much thats what its like. There are 15 kids on our street between the ages of 2-8, and I have 2 girls 3,4. They just cruise around the neighborhood in a pack like when we used to grow up. Schools are great, downtown has cool shops, everyone is about keeping things local and healthy, but not in a pretentious way. More in a community way. Not to mention Shasta, Cascades, Coast, all within 2-3 hours at the most. i could go on and on. Obviously long term review will take a few years, but so far I feel like its paradise.

    Everyone keeps apologizing that the winter has been so bad here, but Novato has more rainfall than Ashland this year, AND Ashland trails drain the day-of so I've been on the bike more than I would have in Marin this year.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rglsr View Post
    Even beyond the MTB situation it's really changed. The overall vibe in Marin is not what is used to be, my wife is a teacher in "Me Valley", you should hear the stories she comes home with...
    People have major entitlement/affluenza issues here. I never thought I could/would even consider leaving, but have been seeing the light lately traveling to other places, etc.
    Yep. Its not just the biking stuff. We decided we wanted to raise our girls somewhere other than Marin for exactly what you are writing about. It will always be home, but I was able to make peace with leaving and don't miss it now. Now I just get to go visit my parents and in laws and not have to deal with the day to day living there

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    Thanks all for the replies, and I am working my way through the hundreds of replies on that other thread too. I wish I had figured this out years ago... Now I got roots I gotta dig up. In addition to great riding, I need to find a place where there are good engineering jobs, and good schools.
    If white is the "new black", then thanks but I'll stick with the old black...

  25. #25
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    From what I've read you could probably throw a dart on the map and find a better MTB vibe I've been to Asheville in the middle of winter and it was fantastic. Cool temps are much easier to deal with than heat. I live on Vancouver Island, but my Brother lives in WA, and yea it's wet, but the riding is life changing.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinrider View Post
    I need to find a place where there are good engineering jobs, and good schools.
    This is where the search starts to narrow considerably. We can all sit here and name the coolest mountain towns in the U.S. but when you have kids and need a job things get a bit more tricky. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it's more difficult.

    Ashland would be high on my list of places to live outside of CA, but you're pretty isolated in terms of access to an actual city with Portland 5 hours away. That's not a deal breaker for some people but for others it is.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    From what I've read you could probably throw a dart on the map and find a better MTB vibe I've been to Asheville in the middle of winter and it was fantastic. Cool temps are much easier to deal with than heat. I live on Vancouver Island, but my Brother lives in WA, and yea it's wet, but the riding is life changing.
    Really, I've heard Asheville, NC has way harsher winters than Oregon....
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Really, I've heard Asheville, NC has way harsher winters than Oregon....
    Probably depends on where you are in OR. I don't think Asheville's winters are all that bad.

  29. #29
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    Twice around Christmas and New Years, and it was great.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    This is where the search starts to narrow considerably. We can all sit here and name the coolest mountain towns in the U.S. but when you have kids and need a job things get a bit more tricky. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it's more difficult.

    Ashland would be high on my list of places to live outside of CA, but you're pretty isolated in terms of access to an actual city with Portland 5 hours away. That's not a deal breaker for some people but for others it is.
    Kids... spouse... extended family.... that's when it gets a big monkey wrench.

    The general rule with high salaries and these mountain bike towns is.... "better take your income/job with you."
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    Quote Originally Posted by rglsr View Post
    Even beyond the MTB situation it's really changed. The overall vibe in Marin is not what is used to be, my wife is a teacher in "Me Valley", you should hear the stories she comes home with...
    People have major entitlement/affluenza issues here. I never thought I could/would even consider leaving, but have been seeing the light lately traveling to other places, etc.
    Heh, I work for the school district as well and would likely have similar stories.

  32. #32
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    Ashville's a great little town. It's in a beautiful area with awesome forests and mild seasons. But if you drive 30 minutes in any direction you're in Redneckistan. I worked 3 summers at a camp in the Ashville area, then lived for 3 months in a nearby town. I once had a lady tell me "The reason y'all have so much trouble in California is cause you have to beat yer young'uns." And she had one of the few white collar jobs.
    Last edited by dirtvert; 03-21-2017 at 12:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by normarin View Post
    Yep. Its not just the biking stuff. We decided we wanted to raise our girls somewhere other than Marin for exactly what you are writing about. It will always be home, but I was able to make peace with leaving and don't miss it now. Now I just get to go visit my parents and in laws and not have to deal with the day to day living there
    Normarin, would you mind sharing what you do for work? I'm in Marin too (grew up in Novato, now live in Fairfax, which is awesome for the most part). While we are happy here, Oregon is such an appealing place to live for us (either Ashland or Hood River for me)

    Besides moving away from our family, the biggest obstacle to relocating to Oregon is the job options for my wife and I (she's a nurse so always better options for her), so just curious what field you work in that you were able to swing escaping to the north.

    Awesome you are loving it!

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    My brother in law lives in Asheville, NC and raves about the biking there. From how he describes the town, it sounds similar to OR or WA mentality, but there's definitely the redneck issue when you get out of town. I haven't gotten a chance to go visit and ride there yet, but it sounds fun. I want to get him to come visit here too, and show him a few of the prime areas here for comparison.

    I grew up in one of the Seattle suburbs, but didn't MTB back then (just f'd around in the woods with our BMXs). I'd love to ditch the rat race here and move back up to anywhere in the PNW, even though we live in a pretty amazing spot (HMB). I don't know how much of that is selective memory about what life was like up there, but it seems like a lot of others share my opinion. What's actually more plausible for us is ending up in Switzerland due to the company my wife works for... I'd be ok with that too, although I have no idea what I'd do for work!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho View Post
    Shhhhhhhh... Don't tell anyone.
    How's the redneck factor in Boise? Honestly? Given that you're a flip in i da ho.
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  36. #36
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    from the bay area anywhere else is an improvement.

    frisco is just an L.A. suburb, and marin is frisco's ghetto.
    So many trails... so little time...

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    211 days before we leave Marin and move back home to Colorado. 210 days too long...

    When we do get back out there, we'll live in a house that we own that is more than twice the size, three times nicer, and a third the monthly cost of our current 50's era cinderblock rental. There's also virtually no traffic, a lot more outdoor stuff to do within a 30 minute drive, we'll trade a partial view of Highway 101 traffic, a powerline and San Quentin for these ones from my deck, and can access more than 100 miles of excellent LEGAL singletrack (free of Lidar, SMS cameras, hateful old hikers, and pissy MMWD rangers) from a trailhead a mere 250 feet away from the front door.
    If you were to move out of the bay area, where would you go?-img_20150812_195029.jpg
    If you were to move out of the bay area, where would you go?-12494801_10153865226047838_8585501286067880259_n.jpg

    In no way does Marin —or the Bay Area— compare unless you're a diehard surfer or city-phile. But to each their own.

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    I'd go pretty much anywhere else. For mtb access, population density and pretentiousness, the Bay Area blows and Marin is pretty much at the top of that list.

    I'd try to find a job where you can work from home and go live anywhere in the mountains. You'll find a lot more genuine people that care about their community and land managers that encourage use of their land in all different manners. Just pick an elevation that meets your criteria for annual snowfall. I like the snow and enjoy weekday powder days but I don't really want to shovel it in my driveway just to take my kid to school.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    from the bay area anywhere else is an improvement.

    frisco is just an L.A. suburb, and marin is frisco's ghetto.
    I see what you did there to san frannnnn.
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    My wife and I have recently talked about Boise as well. My wife is slightly concerned because our kids are mixed (half Filipino/white) The thought of owning a home with no mortgage payment and escaping the rat race sounds really appealing. We really enjoy where we live (Livermore) but the thought of such financial freedom combined with all the outdoor activities seems almost too good to pass up.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDRN911 View Post
    My wife and I have recently talked about Boise as well. My wife is slightly concerned because our kids are mixed (half Filipino/white) The thought of owning a home with no mortgage payment and escaping the rat race sounds really appealing. We really enjoy where we live (Livermore) but the thought of such financial freedom combined with all the outdoor activities seems almost too good to pass up.
    Boise is worth visiting. Vibrant downtown that is less than 1 mile away from the trails. I live in the Northend and it is probably the best neighborhood in Boise to live in for a combination of trail access and downtown access. I can walk or ride to downtown just as fast as I can get to the trails.

  42. #42
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    Amazing how fast some people have gone from being condescending a-holes telling me I was way too negative about off road cycling access, to f-this noise I'm outta here.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Amazing how fast some people have gone from being condescending a-holes telling me I was way too negative about off road cycling access, to f-this noise I'm outta here.


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    Some people are slow to catch on. Some people still think there's hope for Marin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    How's the redneck factor in Boise? Honestly? Given that you're a flip in i da ho.
    In Boise itself, you'll be hard pressed to find the redneck factor. Boise itself has become more moderate to left with the influx of folks coming into town compared to the rest of the state (More Berkeley than Stockton but with less hippies and more yuppies and less homeless). Put it this way, I do not fear walking from my house to downtown and back at any time of the day or night. Well, I do fear the occasional elk, moose or mountain lion that roam downtown sometimes but that's why everyone has guns (just half kidding).

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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    Some people are slow to catch on. Some people still think there's hope for Marin.
    It's purely about ego. I see a lot of people step into the arena thinking they are smarter than everyone who has come before them. They think their approach is better. Lately it's been the idiots at MCBC. "Let's make friends with the MHC and the MCL." They think that somehow they can ignore the parable of the Scorpion and the Frog. They have made things 10x worse with almost nothing to show for it.


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    i think finding a kickass job is more important to finding kickass singletrack..at least for me. i screwed around too much in life and found myself below the bell-curve as to where i should be in life at that age.

    i moved from Bay area - east bay to---- bay area "fringe" in the form of santa rosa. for the first time in our lives my wife, myself and both of our jobs are in the same damn city. it wasnt cheap, but i plunked down good money and got our house payment small..i'm gonna coast into retirement in 10 years..and then beg my my wife to let us get the hell outta here. i think selling my CA home and buying a non-CA home will put me back on track
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho View Post
    In Boise itself, you'll be hard pressed to find the redneck factor. Boise itself has become more moderate to left with the influx of folks coming into town compared to the rest of the state (More Berkeley than Stockton but with less hippies and more yuppies and less homeless). Put it this way, I do not fear walking from my house to downtown and back at any time of the day or night. Well, I do fear the occasional elk, moose or mountain lion that roam downtown sometimes but that's why everyone has guns (just half kidding).
    Boise is just like Marin...people shooting dogs on the trails
    Reports of shots fired in Hulls Gulch hiking area in Boise | Idaho Statesman

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Amazing how fast some people have gone from being condescending a-holes telling me I was way too negative about off road cycling access, to f-this noise I'm outta here.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Did you just call your fellow mountain bikers condescending a-holes?
    A few individuals who damn well know who they are. Yes.


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    Quote Originally Posted by marinrider View Post
    Thanks all for the replies, and I am working my way through the hundreds of replies on that other thread too. I wish I had figured this out years ago... Now I got roots I gotta dig up. In addition to great riding, I need to find a place where there are good engineering jobs, and good schools.
    What kind of engineering? I'm sure that will matter in the choice of where to live.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinrider View Post
    I told my wife no way in hell would I ever move there..... They have built about 150 miles of high quality bike purpose singletrack, plus a couple bike parks. Stuff we in Marin can only dream of. Still not sure, it would be my first choice
    so, what youre saying is all it took was some single track trails to get you to consider Arkansas? you are easy to please!

    as already mentioned, they are two completely different places. the only thing they share in common is the fact that its in the US.

    with that said, there is no way I could live in the bay. best of luck on your endeavors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    A few individuals who damn well know who they are. Yes.


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    That's where I don't understand. This thread is not about you nor is anyone talking about you then you come right out and call a bunch of folks 'condescending a-holes'. Who are you talking about?? People on this thread???

    And why are you lashing out here all of a sudden?? What brings it on the you have to personally insult folks just unprovoked.

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    There is so much hate towards other "types" in this thread that all ya'll fit Davey's description. I swear when I hear the term "redneck" thrown around like these people are non-human or that you can't live near one then ya'll may as well stay in Marin where you're safe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee29 View Post
    There is so much hate towards other "types" in this thread that all ya'll fit Davey's description. I swear when I hear the term "redneck" thrown around like these people are non-human or that you can't live near one then ya'll may as well stay in Marin where you're safe
    Yeah, I have to concur with this. The amount of classist shade being thrown about in reference to the residents of the areas you'd like to move to is astonishing. Perhaps consider that it's these "rednecks" and their families, through their efforts over the years, that have made these communities you're considering moving too, attractive places to live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee29 View Post
    There is so much hate towards other "types" in this thread that all ya'll fit Davey's description. I swear when I hear the term "redneck" thrown around like these people are non-human or that you can't live near one then ya'll may as well stay in Marin where you're safe
    So much clarity here


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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee29 View Post
    There is so much hate towards other "types" in this thread that all ya'll fit Davey's description. I swear when I hear the term "redneck" thrown around like these people are non-human or that you can't live near one then ya'll may as well stay in Marin where you're safe
    I think by "redneck" he really meant "racist" and that's probably a pretty legitimate concern in Idaho once you leave Boise. Is it a stereotype? Sure, but some stereotypes are earned. I mean 90% of Idaho is white and the panhandle specifically has been known to harbor a bunch of white supremacist groups for years. So yeah, to cut to the chase here if you have brown skin Sandpoint is probably not a place I would recommend moving to. Sorry if that deeply offends any "rednecks" and I aint from Marin.

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    People from Marin are better than rednecks. They're better than everyone, yet apparently they can't stand each other. Shit, they even pronounce Marin all pretentious-like, instead of it rhyming with "Karen".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    A few individuals who damn well know who they are. Yes.


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    At least, Davey is clear about his opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtssogood View Post
    Shit, they even pronounce Marin all pretentious-like, instead of it rhyming with "Karen".
    lolwut

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
    Yeah, I have to concur with this. The amount of classist shade being thrown about in reference to the residents of the areas you'd like to move to is astonishing. Perhaps consider that it's these "rednecks" and their families, through their efforts over the years, that have made these communities you're considering moving too, attractive places to live.
    Not really sure I get this.

    What "efforts" do you imagine these people go to to make the Pisgah or Sawtooth National Forest more attractive to people in NorCal?

    I live adjacent to the Jefferson NF in western VA. I can throw a rock into it from my back porch. The rednecks around here zero their .30-06s 50ft from the road, into a refuse pile, with the SDZs overlapping a 4 lane highway. One of them hit me in the chest with bird shot while squirrel hunting, when walking up to my house for the first time ever, just after getting back from AFG. Another one started a fire on the USFS shooting range by shooting tracer rounds at metal targets; the bullets passed through the target into the forest beyond, setting it ablaze. Poaching? Common occurrence.

    Then we have the trash. Despite living 3 miles from a free county waste transfer station that they probably drive through to get to work or the grocery store, the two lane country road here sees bags of trash, old truck tires, etc. abandoned on it regularly. To the point that not one but two college clubs do community service picking it up a couple times a year.

    Tell me, how does that add value? How have these people made this place any more desirable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    ..Then we have the trash. Despite living 3 miles from a free county waste transfer station that they probably drive through to get to work or the grocery store, the two lane country road here sees bags of trash, old truck tires, etc. abandoned on it regularly....
    Any bay area back road is the same. Except here it's not blamed on "rednecks"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    What kind of engineering? I'm sure that will matter in the choice of where to live.
    I'm a mechanical engineer. Over the years I've worked with optics, medical devices and machine design.

    Quote Originally Posted by blindboxx2334 View Post
    so, what youre saying is all it took was some single track trails to get you to consider Arkansas? you are easy to please!

    as already mentioned, they are two completely different places. the only thing they share in common is the fact that its in the US.

    with that said, there is no way I could live in the bay. best of luck on your endeavors.
    The town as a whole has developed significantly over the last several years. It has really become a bike crazy town, but there have also been big developments in beer and food, as well as arts and music. All that said, I found it is actually 210 miles of bike legal singletrack, and another 100 miles planned. I don't think anyone involved in all that building would call that easy...
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    That's where I don't understand. This thread is not about you nor is anyone talking about you then you come right out and call a bunch of folks 'condescending a-holes'. Who are you talking about?? People on this thread???

    And why are you lashing out here all of a sudden?? What brings it on the you have to personally insult folks just unprovoked.

    fc
    Second this. Davey, you're way outta line here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    A few individuals who damn well know who they are. Yes.
    Says the guy that's been dropped from multiple advocacy email groups for insulting and attacking other advocates (including many that are experts in their fields of environment, policy, law, etc), spreading bizarre conspiracy theories, and taking energy and time away from actual advocacy work because people have to put out the fires you start...

    Also, you've know that my family and I have always planned to move away from Marin and back to my home state, ever since I made a friendly offer for your use of our house in Durango a few years ago so you could take a break from the Marin BS.

    Despite my residence in Marin being transitory, I became involved in efforts to improve MTB access and expectance in a place that I knew I would be leaving soon. You are one of the primary reasons that I've backed off significantly in those efforts, because what's the point of making things better when fellow mountain bikers continually attack, insult, and try to humiliate advocates when we are working for the same f**king goal!

    If you'd put 1/2 the energy you put into attacking me and other Marin advocates into attacking the system and public lands culture in Marin County (like your latest letter to the IJ), we'd be that much closer to successfully changing the public dialogue and opening more trails to bikes, which is happening despite you. But instead, you'd rather throw some passive-agressive shade at the abilities and/or motivations of other mountain bikers while also stating your desire and intention to move away from Marin yourself here on MTBR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    lolwut
    Try it out. Rhyme it with Karen next time you're speaking with someone from Mill Valley, and see the reaction you get.

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    Dang, not moving anywhere with humidity, too much rain, f'ed up winters with snow and sh**t, tons of mosquitos or lack of good tacos, pho noodles, indian food

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    Quote Originally Posted by huntermos View Post
    Says the guy that's been dropped from multiple advocacy email groups for insulting and attacking other advocates (including many that are experts in their fields of environment, policy, law, etc), spreading bizarre conspiracy theories, and taking energy and time away from actual advocacy work because people have to put out the fires you start...

    Also, you've know that my family and I have always planned to move away from Marin and back to my home state, ever since I made a friendly offer for your use of our house in Durango a few years ago so you could take a break from the Marin BS.

    Despite my residence in Marin being transitory, I became involved in efforts to improve MTB access and expectance in a place that I knew I would be leaving soon. You are one of the primary reasons that I've backed off significantly in those efforts, because what's the point of making things better when fellow mountain bikers continually attack, insult, and try to humiliate advocates when we are working for the same f**king goal!

    If you'd put 1/2 the energy you put into attacking me and other Marin advocates into attacking the system and public lands culture in Marin County (like your latest letter to the IJ), we'd be that much closer to successfully changing the public dialogue and opening more trails to bikes, which is happening despite you. But instead, you'd rather throw some passive-agressive shade at the abilities and/or motivations of other mountain bikers while also stating your desire and intention to move away from Marin yourself here on MTBR.
    I wont bother to address what you've said here because in 200 something days and counting you'll be gone. See ya.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtssogood View Post
    Try it out. Rhyme it with Karen next time you're speaking with someone from Mill Valley, and see the reaction you get.
    I'm confused. It's never rhymed with Karen.

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    Mods should probably move this whole thread to the Marin Drama forum at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carl hungus View Post
    mods should probably move this whole thread to the marin drama forum at this point.
    lol

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    Come on now...we can't let this thread end like this! Everybody have a few cold ones, and let us know what you really think

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    I was stationed in Alameda for 7 years. A lot of things I liked up there, but it wasn't even a match to San Diego. But mountain biking is pretty lacking in San Diego, but running, roadie and tri are off the charts.

    Then I moved to Norco (HorsetownUSA) in Riverside county because my wife became a horse person. While this town has a ton of flaws and I wouldn't recommend living here, unless you are in to horses, the mountain biking in the Inland Empire is great. Several XC racing series (Southridge, Over The Hump, Rim Nordic, Kenda Cup), downhill racing (Southridge again, where Aaron Gwin can be found), Enduro (SoCal Enduro) endurance XC (Socal Endurance, Kenda Cup), two US Cup races (Fontana and Bonelli with Sea Otter driving distance), bike park (Snow Summit, Mammoth is doable), trails everywhere, and year round riding weather without needing a fat bike (but you can do that too). And if you road ride, plenty of that too.

    Best in America? Doubt it. But it has worked out well for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garcia View Post
    Moved from Brentwood (Pleasant Hill/Walnut Creek before that) to Boise. Fantastic riding, and the road isn't bad either, but definitely not better than the East Bay, unfortunately. But the MTB here is leaps better than anything I ever rode in CA near the Bay Area.

    Oh, and it is CHEAP. I am a realtor up here, a huge percentage of new arrivals are either from CA or AZ, but people are coming from all around the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Da hell???
    Probably excellent riding. I have visited Pocatello, ID years ago. My dad went to college there. The winters are just too cold for me. I've snowboarded and skied my entire life, but now I am cold averse. Now it just seems like more hassle to drive 4 hours to Tahoe than it is worth.

    Orange County has a lot of very technical singletrack in the Saddleback Mountains near Silverado Peak. I haven't ridden much down there but what trails I did ride were much more steep and technical than anything in the Bay Area. I know I just scratched the surface. That is why a lot of mountain bike companies are in SoCal. Plus, seems like they are more mtb friendly down there than in NorCal.
    Last edited by aliikane; 03-23-2017 at 01:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    Probably excellent riding. I have visited Pocatello, ID years ago. My dad went to college there. The winters are just too cold for me. I've snowboarded and skied my entire life, but now I am cold averse. Now it just seems like more hassle to drive 4 hours to Tahoe than it is worth.

    Orange County has a lot of very technical singletrack in the Saddleback Mountains near Silverado Peak. I haven't ridden much down there but what trails I did ride were much more steep and technical than anything in the Bay Area. I know I just scratched the surface. That is why a lot of mountain bike companies are in SoCal. Plus, seems like they are more mtb friendly down there than in NorCal.
    Hmmm... sound like a lot of conjecture. I'm not sure very steep fire roads, Orange County housewives and Apocalyptic traffic is a good relief from Marin.
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    ^^ The Santa Ana's are okay if you don't mind climbing 15 miles of exposed fireroad to get to the s/t. The real tech stuff is in Laguna Canyon. Still, Socal bakes/burns now for much of the year and there's way too many rats stuffed into the cage. And the trails are not loamy all day--more like kitty litter on adobe. Pass.
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    Well apparently the peninsula and Marin are starting to lose residents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I wont bother to address what you've said here because in 200 something days and counting you'll be gone. See ya.


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    That's it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Well apparently the peninsula and Marin are starting to lose residents.

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    That's your news? Have a little more info than that Zorg?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    ^^ The Santa Ana's are okay if you don't mind climbing 15 miles of exposed fireroad to get to the s/t. The real tech stuff is in Laguna Canyon. Still, Socal bakes/burns now for much of the year and there's way too many rats stuffed into the cage. And the trails are not loamy all day--more like kitty litter on adobe. Pass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    That's your news? Have a little more info than that Zorg?

    fc
    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/amp/Ba...s-11021334.php

    There you go. Hot off the press.

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    I leave this thread for 1 day, 1 damn day, and I see its gone down the toilet....

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Bay Area population growth slows, some counties losing people

    There you go. Hot off the press.

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    That's great news, there are way too many people in the Bay Area. Now if I could pick and choose who leaves...that would be

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    I'm confused. It's never rhymed with Karen.
    George Bush Sr. did, remember his "misguided Marin hot tubber" comment about John Walker Lindh? He pronounced it more like "Karen", classic stuff...

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    Quote Originally Posted by rglsr View Post
    George Bush Sr. did, remember his "misguided Marin hot tubber" comment about John Walker Lindh? He pronounced it more like "Karen", classic stuff...
    Wow. Wasn't aware of the George Sr. dust up until just looking it up. That whole "American Taliban" thing seems like a lifetime ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blindboxx2334 View Post
    I leave this thread for 1 day, 1 damn day, and I see its gone down the toilet....
    In every cluster, there is a root cause. Nice going man. Don't be leavin again and going AWOL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blindboxx2334 View Post
    I leave this thread for 1 day, 1 damn day, and I see its gone down the toilet....
    It's all YOUR fault!!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by rglsr View Post
    George Bush Sr. did, remember his "misguided Marin hot tubber" comment about John Walker Lindh? He pronounced it more like "Karen", classic stuff...
    That's how they pronounce it in Southern Marin...Bush was just being respectful, being he's from the South...errr, Texas I mean

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Hmmm... sound like a lot of conjecture. I'm not sure very steep fire roads, Orange County housewives and Apocalyptic traffic is a good relief from Marin.
    Haha. I think you have been misinformed or been riding the wrong trails. You may watching too much of Orange County Housewives and think OC is like that? Lol. All the good downhill trails I have ridden there were all tight steep technical singletrack in the sparsely populated areas of OC. Traffic is mild in the east Irvine and Lake Forest areas. Also, Aaron Gwin honed his skills in Saddleback Mountains. Watch some of his videos in Saddleback mountains.

    SoCal does have more XC, Enduro, and DH races than in the Bay Area.

    Here is one of the singletrack trails down in OC.


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    There are no DH races in the Bay Area. The bar is set so low it isn't hard to do better.


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    It's official, it's called "Domestic migration"!

    Marin’s population takes a dip, census data show
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    Haha. I think you have been misinformed or been riding the wrong trails. Here is one of the singletrack trails down in OC.
    Have you ridden that trail? It's a'ight, but it involves a 14 mile fireroad climb to get to the trailhead, most of it isn't very tech or interesting (zero features), and you have a bunch of road miles (climbing) to get back to your car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    Have you ridden that trail? It's a'ight, but it involves a 14 mile fireroad climb to get to the trailhead, most of it isn't very tech or interesting (zero features), and you have a bunch of road miles (climbing) to get back to your car.
    He rode it on the internets.
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    ^^ Which with editing makes it look way better than it does in reality--and it makes your butt look big!
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

    Nature is not a sidewalk (I'm looking at you, MidPen).

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    Have you ridden that trail? It's a'ight, but it involves a 14 mile fireroad climb to get to the trailhead, most of it isn't very tech or interesting (zero features), and you have a bunch of road miles (climbing) to get back to your car.
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    He rode it on the internets.
    I haven't ridden Joplin. 14 mile climb to the trailhead is doable. The mountains are big there.

    However, I have ridden these a few others. These are steeper and more technical than most in the Bay Area. Similar to Braille trail in Demo and 7/11, Hitler in China Camp. Definitely not boring flow trails. Haha.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    It's all YOUR fault!!!


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    lol, I take full responsibilities for my actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marinrider View Post
    I am so sick of the bs in Marin. When I first moved here 15 years ago, I got really involved in activism, and thought it would change. After a while, I just accepted that we would just poach everything, and not care. A handful of years ago, my in-laws moved to NW Arkansas. I told my wife no way in hell would I ever move there. We go down there every year or two, and holy crap! It has changed. They have built about 150 miles of high quality bike purpose singletrack, plus a couple bike parks. Stuff we in Marin can only dream of. Still not sure, it would be my first choice, but... I do think it is currently the most bike friendly town in the country. Where do you think are the best places to be a mountain biker, preferably in the US?
    It's no coincidence that (1) many of the high level Wal-Mart execs are avid cyclists (and badass athletes of all sorts); and (2) said execs spend a good amount of time in Bentonville, even if it's not their true home. They've given a lot of money, publicly and behind the scenes, to spur the trail network out that way.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-un...e-ar-2017.html

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Not really sure I get this.

    What "efforts" do you imagine these people go to to make the Pisgah or Sawtooth National Forest more attractive to people in NorCal?
    Forgive me, I wasn't clear when I brought up communities and their perceived function. Interestingly, the way you wrote this, intentionally or not, kinda gets to the heart of what I'm getting at despite the fact that I wasn't referring to the parks or natural areas that often surround communities people like you and I often find attractive. It's not up to residents of a community to make their communities more attractive to outsiders like us. The way this question is written seems to indicate that you feel that it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I live adjacent to the Jefferson NF in western VA. I can throw a rock into it from my back porch. The rednecks around here zero their .30-06s 50ft from the road, into a refuse pile, with the SDZs overlapping a 4 lane highway. One of them hit me in the chest with bird shot while squirrel hunting, when walking up to my house for the first time ever, just after getting back from AFG. Another one started a fire on the USFS shooting range by shooting tracer rounds at metal targets; the bullets passed through the target into the forest beyond, setting it ablaze. Poaching? Common occurrence.
    And? Welcome to Appalachia. I grew up in, and recently moved from, the Upper Midwest, same thing. I've had birdshot rain down upon me while riding on a MUP through a state wildlife area on more than one occasion. It goes with the territory. Perhaps this isn't the area for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Then we have the trash. Despite living 3 miles from a free county waste transfer station that they probably drive through to get to work or the grocery store, the two lane country road here sees bags of trash, old truck tires, etc. abandoned on it regularly. To the point that not one but two college clubs do community service picking it up a couple times a year.
    Others in this thread have addressed this and I agree, this isn't necessarily a "redneck" issue. Litterbugs are litterbugs and I've seem entitled jackasses toss garbage out of a Maserati (christ those things are ugly) just as often as I have out of an F150.

    I guess my real point is this: people in this thread are considering relocating to new places. Communities where people have established ways of doing things and these things, combined with the local natural beauty, are attractive to people like us. Who are we to move into these places with our own prejudices and start bandying about terms like "redneck"? Really? They're just folk, and maybe these folk don't really appreciate it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
    And? Welcome to Appalachia. I grew up in, and recently moved from, the Upper Midwest, same thing. I've had birdshot rain down upon me while riding on a MUP through a state wildlife area on more than one occasion. It goes with the territory. Perhaps this isn't the area for you?
    I agree that it's important to be deeply thoughtful about whether you're going to be comfortable with the locals and the regional cultural norms before heading to a new location. Is this area right (enough) for me, in enough ways? Because when the fit is really off, the experience can be pretty bad. Trust me on this one.

    So, my recommendation would be to make sure you know what works for you--and perhaps more importantly, what doesn't--and don't try to convince yourself otherwise.

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