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  1. #1
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    How wild is Mr. Toad's Wild Ride?

    I only recently started riding more technical terrain since I got my HD3. The bike is more than capable, but I am not so sure about my skills. Everyone seems to rave about how good this trail is but it seems like it might be pretty technical... I was thinking of giving it a go but I don't want to end up stuck on a trail I can't ride, especially if I've worked really hard to get up there. How is it in comparison to, say, the rocky bit at the beginning/end of Big Meadow to Dardanelles Lake, or the Sawtooth trail in Truckee? I have ridden both of these recently... did fine on Sawtooth, on Big Meadow I walked a lot of the rocks going up (uphill rocks are not my strong point), but managed to ride most of it on the way down.

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  2. #2
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    Give it a go, if you walk, you walk.

  3. #3
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    There are only a few short techy sections. Most of the rest is fast and swoopy.

    Hey, if I can ride it, so can you
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig View Post
    (uphill rocks are not my strong point)
    Uphill rocks won't be a problem on Toad's. They're all downhill rocks.

    Sawtooth & TRT Big Meadow aren't very technical. Most of the techy stuff on Toad's is on the first 1/3 of the trail. But like Axe wrote, you can always walk those sections. You can't improve unless you push your limits.
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  5. #5
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    Just send it


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  6. #6
    L1MEY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    There are only a few short techy sections. Most of the rest is fast and swoopy.

    Hey, if I can ride it, so can you
    Ok, cool. This is what I was hoping. I'm fine with walking sections that are clearly above my skill limit, and also fine with giving stuff a try if it looks doable, I just didn't want to walk down the entire 6 miles

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  7. #7
    fc
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    It's pretty gnarly near the top. It can eff you up and your bike if you are not used to rocks and sand.

    Walk iif you are unsure and know that there is swoopy fun stuff halfway down.
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  8. #8
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    I just rode it last Wednesday; the trail is in great shape at the top, the bottom is a little blown out. We climbed up from Big Meadow Campground; there are some uphill rocky sections there that require a lot of energy to climb. Now, for the descending...there are a few rocky sections that are legit. If you can't ride them, walk them. Lots of fun swoopy singletrack to make you smile

  9. #9
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    Maybe descend Armstrong / Corral first. If you feel good there then try Toads. Building confidence with experience helps.

    Also stay focused. There are great brewpubs after the trail ends and a couple of urgent cares available :-) Good MTB doc at the Stateline urgent care stitched my wife up after her wine bar accident in Downieville during the Classic a few weeks ago.

    Watch for altitude sickness. I got it last Monday on the TRT climbing from Spooner TH. It saps a lot of energy out of you that can make even nice descents exhausting. I need to acclimate to Tahoe more than two days before hitting 8,000+. Maybe I need to live there again in the summer...
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  10. #10
    aka dan51
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    Good chance you will walk the water fall section, and maybe a few others, mostly due to lack of familiarity with the trail.
    Overall you'll likely ride 98-99% of it.
    If you are in a group, spread out towards the bottom, it gets super dusty. Third+ person back will be having a less than stellar time...

  11. #11
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    They sanitized the only hard section of the trail this year. You should be good to go.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by prozach0215 View Post
    They sanitized the only hard section of the trail this year. You should be good to go.
    "Pro"zach must not be able to read...otherwise he would have noticed your tech level...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig View Post
    I only recently started riding more technical terrain since I got my HD3. The bike is more than capable, but I am not so sure about my skills. Everyone seems to rave about how good this trail is but it seems like it might be pretty technical... I was thinking of giving it a go but I don't want to end up stuck on a trail I can't ride, especially if I've worked really hard to get up there. How is it in comparison to, say, the rocky bit at the beginning/end of Big Meadow to Dardanelles Lake, or the Sawtooth trail in Truckee? I have ridden both of these recently... did fine on Sawtooth, on Big Meadow I walked a lot of the rocks going up (uphill rocks are not my strong point), but managed to ride most of it on the way down.

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    Wondering why nobody is mentioning what it takes to climb up from "the Meadows" just to get to head down Toads! Check out a recent vid on YouTube heading up same route from B1KER.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    there are some uphill rocky sections there that require a lot of energy to climb.
    Can I quote myself...I assumed the OP checked out the ride profile?

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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    "Pro"zach must not be able to read...otherwise he would have noticed your tech level...
    Why be an ass? I was just giving the guy my opinion based on what he said. There isn't anything on toads the guy can't easily see in advance and get off and walk. The one section that was actually pretty hard was filled in with rocks and concrete this spring.

  16. #16
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    Thanks for the tips everyone

    I might take a shot at it some time this weekend... it's definitely on my list to ride before the snow starts to fly in any case.

    Jmpreston, that climb up to the bench from Spooner is a workout for sure! Last time I did it I kept having people tell me I should have gone the other way from Kingsbury instead I took the Sierra Canyon Trail down to Genoa from the top... I've never ridden so many switchbacks! I'm ok with Tahoe altitudes so no worries there... above 12k ft I usually get a nasty headache but I'm fine below that

    JMAC47, I was planning on riding up Armstrong rather than going via the Big Meadow TH. That way I don't have to shuttle it... or do miles of hiking like the guys in the video. I'm guessing the road they were talking about in the video is the dirt road that leads to Horse Meadows on the back side of Armstrong Pass... anyone ever ridden it that way? You would have to get someone to shuttle you to the trailhead back there but that trail would be rideable (I've hiked it a few times).

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Wondering why nobody is mentioning what it takes to climb up from "the Meadows" just to get to head down Toads! Check out a recent vid on YouTube heading up same route from B1KER.
    Pffffttt...climbing from the meadows. A few days ago I fooled myself into a sufferfest. Started at 4:15 at bottom of Fountain Place. Rode up Cedar/Sidewinder, then up the pavement. Surprisingly, after a few consecutive days of riding, my legs are feeling ok. I can make it up Armstrong. But, hey, why stop there? I've done this ride before. It couldn't have taken me more than three hours, tops. On to Toads! Never mind I have no food, headlamp, extra layers, and it's getting late. Hmmm...I don't remember this much climbing...huh, now my legs are starting to feel pretty tired...damn it, these climbs I could usually make are killing me and now I'm pushing my bike...crap, I'm out of water now. Finally made it to Toads and I don't even want to be on my bike anymore, but it's well past 7, gotta get down this thing. Nothing like riding a burly trail that you're only vaguely familiar with, while you're bonking, and solo, in fading light, wanting to go as fast as possible, but knowing that's a recipe for disaster. But man, what a fun trail! (at least the parts I didn't walk)
    Morals - If you're gonna start late, be prepared, or turn around (it might have actually been fun if I had food, water, and a headlamp). When exhausted, food and beer are strangely unappetizing, but Gatorade is the nectar of the gods. And I'm pretty sure there is no way in hell I previously did that ride in under three hours.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtssogood View Post
    Pffffttt...climbing from the meadows. A few days ago I fooled myself into a sufferfest. Started at 4:15 at bottom of Fountain Place. Rode up Cedar/Sidewinder, then up the pavement. Surprisingly, after a few consecutive days of riding, my legs are feeling ok. I can make it up Armstrong. But, hey, why stop there? I've done this ride before. It couldn't have taken me more than three hours, tops. On to Toads! Never mind I have no food, headlamp, extra layers, and it's getting late. Hmmm...I don't remember this much climbing...huh, now my legs are starting to feel pretty tired...damn it, these climbs I could usually make are killing me and now I'm pushing my bike...crap, I'm out of water now. Finally made it to Toads and I don't even want to be on my bike anymore, but it's well past 7, gotta get down this thing. Nothing like riding a burly trail that you're only vaguely familiar with, while you're bonking, and solo, in fading light, wanting to go as fast as possible, but knowing that's a recipe for disaster. But man, what a fun trail! (at least the parts I didn't walk)
    Morals - If you're gonna start late, be prepared, or turn around (it might have actually been fun if I had food, water, and a headlamp). When exhausted, food and beer are strangely unappetizing, but Gatorade is the nectar of the gods. And I'm pretty sure there is no way in hell I previously did that ride in under three hours.
    "The best rides are the ones where you bite off much more than you can chew--and live through it"

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  19. #19
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    How wild is Mr. Toad's Wild Ride?

    Are you riding solo? And you just started riding tech a couple months ago?

    Solo means you have to ride more cautious. Can always walk the bike but obviously have to get off before trouble. Hard to know what you can handle though if you've never been in these situations. Slam that droppert all the way down at the top.
    Last edited by fc; 08-31-2017 at 08:17 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Hurtsogood, NOW you can ride with me, You are probably prepared for every ride going forward! I love a good sufferfest.

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    It's a pretty big difference in trail profile from Sawtooth to Toads. I always say " Ride what you can, walk what you have to". Be mindful that Once you're on Toads you're pretty far from help. Have fun out there


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  22. #22
    NedwannaB
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    Quote Originally Posted by railntrail View Post
    It's a pretty big difference in trail profile from Sawtooth to Toads. I always say " Ride what you can, walk what you have to". Be mindful that Once you're on Toads you're pretty far from help. Have fun out there


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    This^^^ Just remember, if you get in trouble, when you get towards the bottom stay right when you get to the fork intersection otherwise you'll end up stuck in the neighborhood not out in Forest Place/Oneidas where there's more chance to get a ride to the ER.
    Last edited by JMac47; 08-31-2017 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Typo
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    This^^^ Just remember, if you get in trouble, when you get towards the bottom stay right when you get to the fork intersection otherwise you'll end up stuck in the neighborhood not out in Forest Place where there's more chance to get a ride to the ER.
    Fountain Place, not Forest Place. Does anyone know how an FS road got that name??? Sounds like an AZ subdivision name. Forest Place is better.

    I haven't heard of many injuries on Toads. I suspect that most riders are cautious the first few times until they scope the lines.

    It is all downhill to help, more or less, but unlikely you'll need it. Ride what you enjoy and feel is safe and be frustrated like the rest of us that you could have done better :-) You can fix that next year...
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  24. #24
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    well there is the surprise stairway half way down.

    you might want to do something like armstrong + connector + corral first. there's a big quantum from that to toad's but it's a super fun trail on its own. heck, just shuttle corral.

    also i think fountain place is named after the someone named fountain .

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    also i think fountain place is named after the someone named fountain .
    OK, I'm changing my name to kegger... :-)
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  26. #26
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    At least I didn't say Forest Lawn.....
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    At least I didn't say Forest Lawn.....
    There have been times while climbing Fountain Place that I expected to be a resident of a Forest Lawn :-) Same with that climb from Spooner to the bench or up to the top of toads from Luther Pass.

    Anyway, Fountain Place seems to be the subdivision there. Not a lot to be said for it though.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founta...ce,_California
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig View Post
    Thanks for the tips everyone

    I might take a shot at it some time this weekend... it's definitely on my list to ride before the snow starts to fly in any case.

    Jmpreston, that climb up to the bench from Spooner is a workout for sure! Last time I did it I kept having people tell me I should have gone the other way from Kingsbury instead I took the Sierra Canyon Trail down to Genoa from the top... I've never ridden so many switchbacks! I'm ok with Tahoe altitudes so no worries there... above 12k ft I usually get a nasty headache but I'm fine below that

    JMAC47, I was planning on riding up Armstrong rather than going via the Big Meadow TH. That way I don't have to shuttle it... or do miles of hiking like the guys in the video. I'm guessing the road they were talking about in the video is the dirt road that leads to Horse Meadows on the back side of Armstrong Pass... anyone ever ridden it that way? You would have to get someone to shuttle you to the trailhead back there but that trail would be rideable (I've hiked it a few times).

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    Well, did you ride Toads yet? We're heading up there tomorrow am...riding up Armstrong and down Toads.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Well, did you ride Toads yet? We're heading up there tomorrow am...riding up Armstrong and down Toads.
    Not yet... I'm spray texturing my house this weekend, unfortunately, so no riding for me It rained up there today so you should have primo trail conditions tomorrow. Enjoy!

    - Jen.
    - Jen.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig View Post

    JMAC47, I was planning on riding up Armstrong rather than going via the Big Meadow TH. That way I don't have to shuttle it... or do miles of hiking like the guys in the video. I'm guessing the road they were talking about in the video is the dirt road that leads to Horse Meadows on the back side of Armstrong Pass... anyone ever ridden it that way? You would have to get someone to shuttle you to the trailhead back there but that trail would be rideable (I've hiked it a few times).

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    You mean Willow Creek Road that takes you to a short one mile trail to the top of Armstrong from the Hope Valley side. OTE Tahoe will shuttle you to the beginning of that road on Hwy 89 just over Luther Pass and you have to ride up about 5 miles. (They can't use the road without an FS permit.) We've done that. Not bad and rather scenic. A few steep spots on the road but they are short. Part of the trail up to the pass is rideable but there is some hike-a-bike.

    With OTE Tahoe you can leave your vehicle on Fountain Place at the bottom of Toads and they will shuttle you to the trail up to the TRT before Grass Lake on Luther Pass. No need to climb from Big Meadow. Or do the Willow Creek Road option. Or climb Armstrong of course to the TRT. Try Willow Creek and see if you like it.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtssogood View Post
    Pffffttt...climbing from the meadows. A few days ago I fooled myself into a sufferfest.

    Nothing like riding a burly trail that you're only vaguely familiar with, while you're bonking, and solo, in fading light, wanting to go as fast as possible, but knowing that's a recipe for disaster.
    A week ago I hit Toads right around mile 55 and almost 12 hours in.

    I hadn't ridden that trail for 10 years. I expected it to be a lot worse than it was. Rock gardens at the top I mostly walked the tougher ones and rode some of the rest (and went OTB on one, haha!) Fading light was the worst part, with full visibility anything after the first gnar is fast and fun. Except those damn stairs, again after 50+ miles those CRUSHED my quads.

    Like everyone else has said, just walk the gnar, the rest keep your weight back, check your speed if you're unsure and have fun!

  32. #32
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    I decided to go looking for Mr. Toad today... didn't find him as I was concentrating too hard on the trail!

    I rode up Fountain Place Rd and then up Armstrong (which is fast becoming one of my favourites). Fountain Place Rd sucks... I can see why people shuttle it. I thought it was going to start raining once I hit the TRT, but the storm never materialised (thank goodness as I didn't have a jacket). I hadn't been on that section of the TRT before, either on a bike or on foot, and found it hard work at the beginning but fun once I got up top.

    I took a break before descending Mr. Toad's and put my knee pads on. Rode the first section and thought that it wasn't so bad... then I hit the rock garden section. That was a whole load of nope! Any section where I can't figure out what the line should be on foot, I'm not gonna ride on a bike. I might have attempted a bit more of it had I not been on my own, but decided to err on the side of caution. I didn't fancy a repeat of last week's performance where I busted a helmet :/

    After the bulk of the rock garden section I was pretty much okay. Walked a few bits here and there where I either couldn't work out the best line or didn't have enough momentum. I made it halfway down the stairs before bailing and decided it was a stupid place to try and restart, so I just walked the rest of them. Below the stairs I was able to ride everything else. By the time I got to the flow section I had a splitting headache (yay, dehydration) and my legs were knackered, so I pretty much cruised the rest. I certainly didn't break any records for speed... maybe for the slowest though!

    Overall I'm glad I did it... if you're not in over your head sometimes then it's hard to improve. My mantra was seat down, heels down, arse over back wheel, pick a line and go slowly... it seemed to work alright. Next time I will take more water, wear some cooler knee pads (mine are really protective but are hot as hell), and get a shuttle up Fountain Place Rd to avoid the suck.

    - Jen.
    - Jen.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig View Post
    I decided to go looking for Mr. Toad today... didn't find him as I was concentrating too hard on the trail!

    I rode up Fountain Place Rd and then up Armstrong (which is fast becoming one of my favourites). Fountain Place Rd sucks... I can see why people shuttle it. I thought it was going to start raining once I hit the TRT, but the storm never materialised (thank goodness as I didn't have a jacket). I hadn't been on that section of the TRT before, either on a bike or on foot, and found it hard work at the beginning but fun once I got up top.

    I took a break before descending Mr. Toad's and put my knee pads on. Rode the first section and thought that it wasn't so bad... then I hit the rock garden section. That was a whole load of nope! Any section where I can't figure out what the line should be on foot, I'm not gonna ride on a bike. I might have attempted a bit more of it had I not been on my own, but decided to err on the side of caution. I didn't fancy a repeat of last week's performance where I busted a helmet :/

    After the bulk of the rock garden section I was pretty much okay. Walked a few bits here and there where I either couldn't work out the best line or didn't have enough momentum. I made it halfway down the stairs before bailing and decided it was a stupid place to try and restart, so I just walked the rest of them. Below the stairs I was able to ride everything else. By the time I got to the flow section I had a splitting headache (yay, dehydration) and my legs were knackered, so I pretty much cruised the rest. I certainly didn't break any records for speed... maybe for the slowest though!

    Overall I'm glad I did it... if you're not in over your head sometimes then it's hard to improve. My mantra was seat down, heels down, arse over back wheel, pick a line and go slowly... it seemed to work alright. Next time I will take more water, wear some cooler knee pads (mine are really protective but are hot as hell), and get a shuttle up Fountain Place Rd to avoid the suck.

    - Jen.
    Nice report agent Jen.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig View Post
    I decided to go looking for Mr. Toad today... didn't find him as I was concentrating too hard on the trail!

    I rode up Fountain Place Rd and then up Armstrong (which is fast becoming one of my favourites). Fountain Place Rd sucks... I can see why people shuttle it. I thought it was going to start raining once I hit the TRT, but the storm never materialised (thank goodness as I didn't have a jacket). I hadn't been on that section of the TRT before, either on a bike or on foot, and found it hard work at the beginning but fun once I got up top.

    I took a break before descending Mr. Toad's and put my knee pads on. Rode the first section and thought that it wasn't so bad... then I hit the rock garden section. That was a whole load of nope! Any section where I can't figure out what the line should be on foot, I'm not gonna ride on a bike. I might have attempted a bit more of it had I not been on my own, but decided to err on the side of caution. I didn't fancy a repeat of last week's performance where I busted a helmet :/

    After the bulk of the rock garden section I was pretty much okay. Walked a few bits here and there where I either couldn't work out the best line or didn't have enough momentum. I made it halfway down the stairs before bailing and decided it was a stupid place to try and restart, so I just walked the rest of them. Below the stairs I was able to ride everything else. By the time I got to the flow section I had a splitting headache (yay, dehydration) and my legs were knackered, so I pretty much cruised the rest. I certainly didn't break any records for speed... maybe for the slowest though!

    Overall I'm glad I did it... if you're not in over your head sometimes then it's hard to improve. My mantra was seat down, heels down, arse over back wheel, pick a line and go slowly... it seemed to work alright. Next time I will take more water, wear some cooler knee pads (mine are really protective but are hot as hell), and get a shuttle up Fountain Place Rd to avoid the suck.

    - Jen.
    I did the same ride on Saturday, with turfnsurf...except we skipped the pavement climb. I think I might climb it next time though.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How wild is Mr. Toad's Wild Ride?-img_1953.jpg  


  35. #35
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    Good report. Plenty of rain this evening in South Tahoe so good you missed it. It looks like the next weather window for the Tahoe high country is Thursday. I'm going to ride the lower trails until then.

    For slow bump rollover nothing beats the Fox Factory 2017+ forks. They nailed it with great engineering. Really helps with picking your way through rock gardens. Also tubeless tires with about 22 psi for normal width tires helps on the granite.

    Storm seems to be ending. Going outside to drink wine and watch campers bail out their tents at Fallen Leaf Campground :-). Probably ride Cold Creek tomorrow.
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  36. #36
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    Climbing Cedar/Sidewinder/Connector is better than riding Fountain Place, as long as it's not a weekend when lots of people are riding downhill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by prozach0215 View Post
    Why be an ass? I was just giving the guy my opinion based on what he said. There isn't anything on toads the guy can't easily see in advance and get off and walk. The one section that was actually pretty hard was filled in with rocks and concrete this spring.
    That's sad to hear. I rode Toads about 5 or 6 years ago, nothing that you can't stop and very easily walk down.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtssogood View Post
    Climbing Cedar/Sidewinder/Connector is better than riding Fountain Place, as long as it's not a weekend when lots of people are riding downhill.
    Ditto. But on the weekends I'll bail off at Connector and head up the pavement as I find the upper part of road easier.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Ditto. But on the weekends I'll bail off at Connector and head up the pavement as I find the upper part of road easier.
    Yeah, I should have done that... it would have been more enjoyable and probably less tiring. That road is no joke! I like the ride up Cedar, haven't tried riding up Sidewinder but I have a feeling the sandy switchbacks might make it a bit tough for me (I'm getting better at them but uphill right turn switchbacks are a problem for me, especially in sand). Connector also seems like it would be a hard ride going up. Armstrong was great going up though, I really enjoyed it

    Ditto on the tubeless tyres with low pressure. I'm running 2.6 Nobby Nics at 14f/16r and the grip on the rocks was insane! My 2018 Pike RCT3 performed like a champ too, and feels much less harsh at my weight than a Fox 36. I've no doubt that if someone who knew what they were doing was riding it, the bike would have made it through the whole thing!

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    Toads is probably my favorite ride I've done in Tahoe to date. Someone mentioned my video earlier. I'll put a link to mine, and the other YouTuber I was riding with that day below.

    I'd like to do it as a loop. My other buddy "Billygoat" we met up at the top rode from the bottom. The shortcut we were talking about in my video is basically driving up 89 some more to cut out a little more of the climb. If you look at this trail map: http://b1ker.com/trailmaps/MrToadsWildRide.pdf The little hiker icon on the bottom next to the TRT that is 0.6 miles long that links into the green route we followed is the aforementioned "short cut". I'll be honest with you though. From the point of where those trails meet is where the climb just gets really difficult, so you really aren't doing much but cutting out the more manageable part of the climb and saving about a 1.5 miles.

    I realize the OP already rode the trail but thought I'd throw this in for people reading this down the road.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B1KER View Post
    Someone mentioned my video earlier
    Are my stickers in the mail yet? 😳
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Are my stickers in the mail yet? 😳
    I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or I missed an order. If the latter I'm truly sorry. Either way, PM me your name and address and I'll drop ya some in the mail!

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    Quote Originally Posted by B1KER View Post
    I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or I missed an order. If the latter I'm truly sorry. Either way, PM me your name and address and I'll drop ya some in the mail!
    No sarcasm just a jovial jab. I catch your vids was just giving you a plug is all.👍
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    LOL, I thought so...but I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss someone. That's like my biggest fear about shipping them myself is that someone pays for them and I miss the email.
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    A little rock gardening on Toads today

    Go get that KOM "You Deserve" - http://www.digitalepo.com/index.php

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    Damn Tahoe. So cool!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    A little rock gardening on Toads today

    Dude, you are a stud!!! That was awesome. I know how much GoPro flattens stuff out and I've been through those sections. Nice work!!!
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    Nice! Love that alternate line at 1:12, reminiscent of a certain other place...

    (Raise that camera angle up a tad, my neck hurts now from involuntarily craning my neck back in a vain attempt to change the angle! )

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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    A little rock gardening on Toads today

    Did any of those rocks say they miss me?
    "I can almost smell the alcohol oozing from that post."

    mtnbkrmike

    A global map of winds. Pretty cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimw View Post
    Nice! Love that alternate line at 1:12, reminiscent of a certain other place...

    (Raise that camera angle up a tad, my neck hurts now from involuntarily craning my neck back in a vain attempt to change the angle! )
    Hey I changed it at the end In tech terrain with no rider in front of me I kinda like it pointed down.

    Finch I though you were gonna visit me towards the end of August? I'm off to the other side of the world in a few days if the weather holds out towards the end of October you should roll up for a couple days.
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    Nice riding! Funny on the 'overrated' thread some dude was saying toads was an XC trail, lol!

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    Quote Originally Posted by B1KER View Post
    Toads is probably my favorite ride I've done in Tahoe to date. Someone mentioned my video earlier. I'll put a link to mine, and the other YouTuber I was riding with that day below.

    I'd like to do it as a loop. My other buddy "Billygoat" we met up at the top rode from the bottom. The shortcut we were talking about in my video is basically driving up 89 some more to cut out a little more of the climb. If you look at this trail map: http://b1ker.com/trailmaps/MrToadsWildRide.pdf The little hiker icon on the bottom next to the TRT that is 0.6 miles long that links into the green route we followed is the aforementioned "short cut". I'll be honest with you though. From the point of where those trails meet is where the climb just gets really difficult, so you really aren't doing much but cutting out the more manageable part of the climb and saving about a 1.5 miles.

    I realize the OP already rode the trail but thought I'd throw this in for people reading this down the road.

    B1KER Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHmuuibUDpA
    MTB Savant Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBUmosL2V7k&t=258s
    In your youtube video, what brakes are you running ? Sounds like the guide's that my brother has and we can't figure out that noise....

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker View Post
    Nice riding! Funny on the 'overrated' thread some dude was saying toads was an XC trail, lol!
    Looks like an XC trail to me.
    Is there a chairlift ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Looks like an XC trail to me.
    Is there a chairlift ?
    Guess my local trails are XC cause no chairlift too, haha! Toads is tech AM top and flow trail bottom.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH24jptyUrg

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    Toads doesn't look any more technical than tons of what we call 'XC' in New England.
    If some of you guys gotta have a special label to make you feel extra-cool for riding over some rocks, then call it whatever you need to. It would be described as 'pretty bony XC' around here. Guess that obviously causes major butt-hurt in Cali.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Toads doesn't look any more technical than tons of what we call 'XC' in New England.
    If some of you guys gotta have a special label to make you feel extra-cool for riding over some rocks, then call it whatever you need to. It would be described as 'pretty bony XC' around here. Guess that obviously causes major butt-hurt in Cali.
    Uh oh, tough guy alert! You got any GoPro footage of your "XC" trails there in NE? - let's making this a good ol'-fashioned proper pissing contest!

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    How wild is Mr. Toad's Wild Ride?

    -delete-

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Toads doesn't look any more technical than tons of what we call 'XC' in New England.
    If some of you guys gotta have a special label to make you feel extra-cool for riding over some rocks, then call it whatever you need to. It would be described as 'pretty bony XC' around here. Guess that obviously causes major butt-hurt in Cali.
    God damn I love the internet.

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    This is considered XC in New England. (Jump ahead to ~8:00 or so if you're in a rush). Tons and tons of good glacial rock around here.



    I don't see anything in that Toad's video that makes it anything other than a good old fashioned cross country descent.

    Sorry if some people get so butthurt by a simple observation they immediately run to the neg-rep button. Fragile egos abound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSocko View Post
    In your youtube video, what brakes are you running ? Sounds like the guide's that my brother has and we can't figure out that noise....
    The SRAM Ultimate Guide brakes. I recently had the some of the parts replaced by warranty. Supposedly the levers would make the brakes drag. That possibly could be part of the issue. Never had that noise problem with my XT brakes. I haven't ridden the bike yet to report on whether or not that part swap has fixed it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B1KER View Post
    The SRAM Ultimate Guide brakes. I recently had the some of the parts replaced by warranty. Supposedly the levers would make the brakes drag. That possibly could be part of the issue. Never had that noise problem with my XT brakes. I haven't ridden the bike yet to report on whether or not that part swap has fixed it.
    He had the levers replaced under warranty also, and it still has the same issue. I have XT's and no issues at all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSocko View Post
    He had the levers replaced under warranty also, and it still has the same issue. I have XT's and no issues at all...
    I expected that to be the outcome I'd have. I've been planning on replacing them with Saints. I just need to save up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    This is considered XC in New England. (Jump ahead to ~8:00 or so if you're in a rush). Tons and tons of good glacial rock around here.



    I don't see anything in that Toad's video that makes it anything other than a good old fashioned cross country descent.

    Sorry if some people get so butthurt by a simple observation they immediately run to the neg-rep button. Fragile egos abound.
    Yes, I agree everything in that video is what I would consider ďsuper tech XCĒ.

    The biggest difference I see with Toads is itís about 2500í and maybe 5 miles of continuous descending.

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    I think this argument that is about to explode is purely semantics. The guy back east calls Toads and the stuff back east XC. To me, a XC trail has little in terms of features. For instance, take look at the Olympic courses. Primarily dirt with an occasional set of rocks. Having been to Toads, I can say my impression is that it isn't XC. Also looking at the video, I wouldn't have called that an XC trail. I'm not saying I'm right, or the other guy is right, or anyone can be right. I think it just comes down to people are going to label things differently. So be it. One way or another, both trails look fun as hell and NO MATTER WHAT, GoPro makes gnarly shit look flat and boring!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by B1KER View Post
    I think this argument that is about to explode is purely semantics. The guy back east calls Toads and the stuff back east XC. To me, a XC trail has little in terms of features. For instance, take look at the Olympic courses. Primarily dirt with an occasional set of rocks. Having been to Toads, I can say my impression is that it isn't XC. Also looking at the video, I wouldn't have called that an XC trail. I'm not saying I'm right, or the other guy is right, or anyone can be right. I think it just comes down to people are going to label things differently. So be it. One way or another, both trails look fun as hell and NO MATTER WHAT, GoPro makes gnarly shit look flat and boring!!!
    B1KER nailed it - it is just semantics and how the terms are used - going off that video, in NE, "good old-fashioned XC trails" are apparently extremely difficult trails where most riders cannot ride the lines cleanly and dismount quite a bit, and they eat bikes for lunch, so by that standard Toads is XC trail - we just use typically use different terms here

    BTW - those trails in the video look super fun / challenging and my favorite type of riding - would love to go out there and ride them!

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    This is considered XC in New England. (Jump ahead to ~8:00 or so if you're in a rush). Tons and tons of good glacial rock around here.

    I don't see anything in that Toad's video that makes it anything other than a good old fashioned cross country descent.

    Sorry if some people get so butthurt by a simple observation they immediately run to the neg-rep button. Fragile egos abound.
    When your riding 170mm bikes it's usually not a cross-country trail. Although I saw guys riding Northstar on hardtails and they where having a great time.

    We do tend to get caught up in the nomenclature of bikes and trails. Where you live has some bearing on this too. BC XC is something altogether different then Fort Ord XC. I tend to draw the line at 100mm of travel. Not can I, but would it be my first choice. If the majority of riders pick a bike under 100mm then it's probably an XC trail. I didn't see one rider in your group on a sub 100mm bike.

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    PSA: Please don't feed the troll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    B1KER nailed it - it is just semantics and how the terms are used - going off that video, in NE, "good old-fashioned XC trails" are apparently extremely difficult trails where most riders cannot ride the lines cleanly and dismount quite a bit, and they eat bikes for lunch, so by that standard Toads is XC trail - we just use typically use different terms here

    BTW - those trails in the video look super fun / challenging and my favorite type of riding - would love to go out there and ride them!

    The guys in the video don't seem very familiar with the lines/trails, hence all the getting off and going the wrong way and whatnot. But most all of the stuff in that video has been in play for almost 20 years and was all ridden "bitd" on old-school equipment. No videos from way back when, but yeah...there was no such thing as 170mm bike when those trails were cut.

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    I always thought that's what the best 'cross country' riding was all about - lots of rocks and roots, some drops and rollers, some blood and cursing. Never bought into the whole idea that it was only dirt sidewalks, since we really don't have much of that sort of thing around. Sorry some of you take 'XC' as some kind of insult; reflection on your local scene more than anything I'd guess. XC in other places doesn't exclude some tech fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    I didn't see one rider in your group on a sub 100mm bike.
    Not my group.
    When I ride there, I'm either on a HT or a 100/120 FS.
    So are most in my group.

    I see people riding 160mm bikes all over the place these days. Does that mean every trail is now an AM trail, just because some people choose to ride long travel bikes on them? That's kinda silly.

    I say if there's no lift and mainly natural terrain, it's XC. A bunch of built-up structures and heavily modified/manmade terrain like the Duthie stuff is obviously a different thing.
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    I agree that people ride big bikes in area's that don't need it. I'm definitely one of them. I have a Bronson that I do most of my rides on. Some of which don't need half of my suspension. However, that's the bike I bought for the other rides I do and unfortunately I can't have several mountain bikes right now. So it is what it is. I will say I think a lot of this is from the marketing specialists at the bike companies. When I first got back into riding I was surprised how many sub categories there were. When I was riding in the 90's anything not on the road was mountain biking. Now there is so many different options. Try explaining Cross bikes to someone that doesn't ride. Um...it's a road bike...with knobby tires like a mountain bike. First question is always, "Why?" LOL, just because we can.
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    [QUOTE=RBoardman;13361947
    The biggest difference I see with Toads is itís about 2500í and maybe 5 miles of continuous descending.[/QUOTE]

    Now that sounds like a good time.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    I tend to draw the line at 100mm of travel. Not can I, but would it be my first choice. If the majority of riders pick a bike under 100mm then it's probably an XC trail.
    I hate to contradict you, but I don't think it's bike choice, but rather a precise formula.

    It is XC if:
    You are wearing any visible lycra
    Your jersey has a zipper, or holds bottles, or has a sponsor logo on it within 25 miles of where you live
    Your shoes are stiffer than your helmet
    Your helmet is smaller in diameter than either your quads or your largest front ring
    You have Strava running
    You do not hold any safety meetings (or any f****ing breaks for gods sake!)
    You do not have the tools to fix your constant flats because your tires are too f***ing flimsy bro!

    It is no longer XC if:
    You can fit a potato in your shorts and nobody notices
    You are wearing flannel
    Your shifter cables are either not cut properly or fraying at the end
    Your drivetrain is filthy
    Your pads are stiffer than your shoes
    You are wearing goggles with a half shell
    You are wearing anything with a TLD logo (this automatically supersedes all other criteria)

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Not my group.
    When I ride there, I'm either on a HT or a 100/120 FS.
    So are most in my group.

    I see people riding 160mm bikes all over the place these days. Does that mean every trail is now an AM trail, just because some people choose to ride long travel bikes on them? That's kinda silly.

    I say if there's no lift and mainly natural terrain, it's XC. A bunch of built-up structures and heavily modified/manmade terrain like the Duthie stuff is obviously a different thing.
    I rode a blur xc 100/120 for 8 years and took it everywhere. The places that I wanted more travel most of the time I didn't consider XC.
    My point about travel is that we usually buy bikes that are suited to our trails. Guys up in Tahoe get long travel bikes and people riding buff single track get short or hard tails. Although the new trend is to buy a bike for the rider you want to be instead of the rider you are. That's why we see a lot of guys on 150MM+ bike riding buff single track 90% of their time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    I hate to contradict you, but I don't think it's bike choice, but rather a precise formula.

    It is XC if:
    You are wearing any visible lycra
    Your jersey has a zipper, or holds bottles, or has a sponsor logo on it within 25 miles of where you live
    Your shoes are stiffer than your helmet
    Your helmet is smaller in diameter than either your quads or your largest front ring
    You have Strava running
    You do not hold any safety meetings (or any f****ing breaks for gods sake!)
    You do not have the tools to fix your constant flats because your tires are too f***ing flimsy bro!

    It is no longer XC if:
    You can fit a potato in your shorts and nobody notices
    You are wearing flannel
    Your shifter cables are either not cut properly or fraying at the end
    Your drivetrain is filthy
    Your pads are stiffer than your shoes
    You are wearing goggles with a half shell
    You are wearing anything with a TLD logo (this automatically supersedes all other criteria)
    That is great!

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Sorry some of you take 'XC' as some kind of insult; reflection on your local scene more than anything I'd guess. XC in other places doesn't exclude some tech fun.
    This is actually quite true. Don't you dare call any of the local Endurobros in SC "XC riders". That's just one step away from being a roadie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    I hate to contradict you, but I don't think it's bike choice, but rather a precise formula.

    It is XC if:
    You are wearing any visible lycra
    Your jersey has a zipper, or holds bottles, or has a sponsor logo on it within 25 miles of where you live
    Your shoes are stiffer than your helmet
    Your helmet is smaller in diameter than either your quads or your largest front ring
    You have Strava running
    You do not hold any safety meetings (or any f****ing breaks for gods sake!)
    You do not have the tools to fix your constant flats because your tires are too f***ing flimsy bro!

    It is no longer XC if:
    You can fit a potato in your shorts and nobody notices
    You are wearing flannel
    Your shifter cables are either not cut properly or fraying at the end
    Your drivetrain is filthy
    Your pads are stiffer than your shoes
    You are wearing goggles with a half shell
    You are wearing anything with a TLD logo (this automatically supersedes all other criteria)
    Hilarious

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    This is actually quite true. Don't you dare call any of the local Endurobros in SC "XC riders". That's just one step away from being a roadie.


    Yeah, we really don't see a lot of that back east. People tend to not be so rigid in trying to pigeonhole everything based on what the marketing guys come up with.

    A group I used to ride with sometimes referred to their style as 'cross-stuntery'. Seems to fit a lot of the way I see folks ride around here. We like to session the ups as well as the downs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Not my group.
    When I ride there, I'm either on a HT or a 100/120 FS.
    So are most in my group.

    I see people riding 160mm bikes all over the place these days. Does that mean every trail is now an AM trail, just because some people choose to ride long travel bikes on them? That's kinda silly.

    I say if there's no lift and mainly natural terrain, it's XC. A bunch of built-up structures and heavily modified/manmade terrain like the Duthie stuff is obviously a different thing.
    Whether you call it bony XC, or DH, or AM it's not about trying to be extra-cool, it's about accuracy. As long as everyone speaks the same lingo it works.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker View Post
    Whether you call it bony XC, or DH, or AM it's not about trying to be extra-cool, it's about accuracy. As long as everyone speaks the same lingo it works.
    Great. Maybe you can put a "CA" prefix on everything so the rest of us know what's up.

    CA-XC = paved
    CA-AM=might have a bump
    CA-FR=somebody brought a 170mm bike there once

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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    I hate to contradict you, but I don't think it's bike choice, but rather a precise formula.

    It is XC if:
    You are wearing any visible lycra
    Your jersey has a zipper, or holds bottles, or has a sponsor logo on it within 25 miles of where you live
    Your shoes are stiffer than your helmet
    Your helmet is smaller in diameter than either your quads or your largest front ring
    You have Strava running
    You do not hold any safety meetings (or any f****ing breaks for gods sake!)
    You do not have the tools to fix your constant flats because your tires are too f***ing flimsy bro!

    It is no longer XC if:
    You can fit a potato in your shorts and nobody notices
    You are wearing flannel
    Your shifter cables are either not cut properly or fraying at the end
    Your drivetrain is filthy
    Your pads are stiffer than your shoes
    You are wearing goggles with a half shell
    You are wearing anything with a TLD logo (this automatically supersedes all other criteria)
    I consider Toadís to be tech XC...not only do I ride with a potato in my shorts, I actually have one in there right now.
    My shoes are stiffer than my pads...hopefully my pads work as advertised?
    I havent worn goggles since I raced moto.
    I always wear TLD logos...:

    I also consider the New England trails to be tech XC; the main difference is elevation loss and speed. Different areas have different terrain; itís nice to have variety

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    ...not only do I ride with a potato in my shorts, I actually have one in there right now.
    mashed potatoes don't count

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    I hate to contradict you, but I don't think it's bike choice, but rather a precise formula.

    It is XC if:
    You are wearing any visible lycra
    Your jersey has a zipper, or holds bottles, or has a sponsor logo on it within 25 miles of where you live
    Your shoes are stiffer than your helmet
    Your helmet is smaller in diameter than either your quads or your largest front ring
    You have Strava running
    You do not hold any safety meetings (or any f****ing breaks for gods sake!)
    You do not have the tools to fix your constant flats because your tires are too f***ing flimsy bro!

    It is no longer XC if:
    You can fit a potato in your shorts and nobody notices
    You are wearing flannel
    Your shifter cables are either not cut properly or fraying at the end
    Your drivetrain is filthy
    Your pads are stiffer than your shoes
    You are wearing goggles with a half shell
    You are wearing anything with a TLD logo (this automatically supersedes all other criteria)
    I'm going to wear lycra with TLD, flannel, goggles and a lid, and to top it off, gonna grow a mullet.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    mashed potatoes don't count
    I thought it was a french fry.
    So many trails... so little time...

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    I thought it was a french fry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_slacker View Post
    Guess my local trails are XC cause no chairlift too, haha! Toads is tech AM top and flow trail bottom.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH24jptyUrg
    I believe I'm the person you're citing from the other thread. Yeah, I'll stick by the XC definition. Vast majority of Moab is XC, as is Pisgah, too. Sorry, the truth hurts sometimes.
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  86. #86
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    There are only two kinds of trails XC and Enduro bro! If you have to ask then it's XC.

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    Seems the most important defining characteristic has been forgotten. If you're wearing goggles and a half-lid helmet (or even a regular bike helmet), it's an Enduro/AM trail. If you're wearing shades (of any kind), its XC, and if you have full face helmet and pads, it's full-on DH!

    But it's kind of funny that somebody who hasn't ridden a trail feels they are an expert in classifying it by viewing a vid about it... The internet is truly awesome place.

    And for the record, I think Toad's is an awesome mtn biking trail with techy bits. No other classifications needed.

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    I think we should go back to calling them mountain biking trails. Then we can classify them by saying things like, "The climb was awful and that technical stuff was really hard. Not like the easy flowy part at the bottom. I can't wait to go do it again."
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfmtber View Post
    feels they are an expert in classifying it
    Yeah, cuz 'looks like' totally says that.

    Looks like fun technical trail, don't see anything that stands out as not what many people would consider 'XC' terrain though. Assume people ride to the top?
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yeah, cuz 'looks like' totally says that.

    Looks like fun technical trail, don't see anything that stands out as not what many people would consider 'XC' terrain though. Assume people ride to the top?
    On the internet and on this forum, "looks like XC" is pretty much stating that it is "XC"... :-)

    I don't care either way actually, whether somebody classifies Toad's as a XC, Freeride, AM, etc. etc. trail. I just wouldn't offer up an opinion about it, if I haven't ridden it. To me, they're all mtn biking trails and the only classification that is important is, is it fun or is it not fun. And does it have mandatory airs...

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yeah, cuz 'looks like' totally says that.

    Looks like fun technical trail, don't see anything that stands out as not what many people would consider 'XC' terrain though. Assume people ride to the top?
    We took a shuttle most of the way to the top.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    We took a shuttle most of the way to the top.
    Sounds better all the time.
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfmtber View Post
    If you're wearing shades (of any kind), its XC,
    I rode Northstar 2 weeks ago with shades and a half shell.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    We took a shuttle most of the way to the top.
    We climbed to the top

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    We took a shuttle most of the way to the top.
    Which is still a 1400 foot climb


    Maybe just classify it as a fun trail
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    Rode toads for the first time this weekend. Me on a Santa Cruz Tallboy and my son on a Santa Cruz 5010. both are short-mid travel bikes and handled everything just fine. Only had to walk a couple of sections and that is due to my skill level (3 mos of riding) rather than the bikes limitations. Best trail ever!

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by infotekt View Post
    Rode toads for the first time this weekend. Me on a Santa Cruz Tallboy and my son on a Santa Cruz 5010. both are short-mid travel bikes and handled everything just fine. Only had to walk a couple of sections and that is due to my skill level (3 mos of riding) rather than the bikes limitations. Best trail ever!
    That's a hell of a trail to hit after 3 months of riding! Awesome job getting out and killing it!
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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by B1KER View Post
    That's a hell of a trail to hit after 3 months of riding! Awesome job getting out and killing it!
    Thanks! I've been riding 4 days a week in Santa Cruz plus a few other trips to Tahoe so I've packed a lot in those 3 months! I'm still verrrrry slow going uphill. Getting fit is so much harder than learning to how to go downhill over rocks and roots!

    Your channel is awesome btw!

  99. #99
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    Ditto to what B1 Robert said. That's quite an accomplishment just getting up and over to the trail let alone riding it after a short intro on the MtB. Even if you shuttled partway up either side to get to the Armstrong Saddle!
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by infotekt View Post
    Your channel is awesome btw!
    Thanks Dude!!! Glad you enjoy it.

    As to what infotekt said, AGREED. There is no easy way to get to the beginning of that trail.
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