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  1. #1
    aka dan51
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    Help make the 4-mile Flow Trail in Demo Forest happen

    Seems like a pretty sweet deal. I just bought quite a few, hopefully they get here soon.
    Ibis Ripley: $5
    Gotta scroll down to find the "Buy Now" button.

  2. #2
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    I bought a few as well. Don't bother buying any more tickets. I'm going to win
    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  3. #3
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    Here's a sticky-on-the-front-page-post which talks about the Ibis Ripley raffle: Own the Flow Fundraiser | Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz (MBOSC)

    (Easier to help us fund this awesome trailness)

    --m

  4. #4
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    Good job! Thanks!

    We are going to run this campaign during the Santa Cruz Mountain Bike Festival and the Sea Otter. Drew and I are probably going to promoting this trail and the raffle most of the time at the Ibis booth (#412!) at the Sea Otter. Drop by and say hi!

    BTW, you guys are awesome. Thanks for promoting this fundraiser. Your reward will be wicked sweet single track in 18-24 months (with some sections opened sooner!)

    Own the Flow | Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz (MBOSC)
    Last edited by mrtoadsc; 04-10-2013 at 11:06 AM. Reason: you call that english?

  5. #5
    aka dan51
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    Whoops! No idea where I got the link from. I was wondering why I didn't see any promotions for it.

  6. #6
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    I'll be donating...time and money...then I'll go ride it on my new Ibis. word
    I'm not sure how this works.

  7. #7
    fc
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    $5 dollah make you hollah
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Help  make the 4-mile Flow Trail in Demo Forest happen-p4020022.jpg  

    Help  make the 4-mile Flow Trail in Demo Forest happen-p4020038.jpg  

    Help  make the 4-mile Flow Trail in Demo Forest happen-p4020039.jpg  

    IPA will save America

  8. #8
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    Hmmm - such a big ask! You either win one of the sweetest bikes known to mankind, or get a sweet trail built. (no brainer!!!)
    Half the planet is deep into bloody tribal mayhem. We’re just riding bikes (and drinking beer) here.
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  9. #9
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    Wow, other than FC, the only people on this thread that thought this frame was worth a whole $5 raffle ticket already owns an Ibis. Sad times... ;-)

  10. #10
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    In like Flynn
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  11. #11
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    I just donated $100.00. I would probably have donated less were it not for the fact that I am two Rampage IPAs (22 ounce bottles) into the evening.
    QUOTE from MTBR.COM: You have given Brewtality too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

  12. #12
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    Well, even though the Bronson is now the best bike ever, and makes my TRc obsolete, I guess I will settle for a "free" Ibis.

  13. #13
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    Hell yeah!
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  14. #14
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    Is this a scam? New Ibis Ripley for $5!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    I just donated $100.00. I would probably have donated less were it not for the fact that I am two Rampage IPAs (22 ounce bottles) into the evening.
    We encourage drinking and donating.

  15. #15
    fc
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    We need to help raise $100k to help build what may be the greatest trail we've ever seen in the Bay Area.

    This is the replacement to Tractor Trail.

    Think Whoops Trail in Bend, Oregon but much longer.

    Own the Flow | Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz (MBOSC)

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/31485432?color=ff9933" width="510" height="320" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen="" mozallowfullscreen="" allowfullscreen=""></iframe> from remer on Vimeo.

    Whoops Trail in the video is only 1.7 miles long. Think of what a 4 mile trail will be like.
    IPA will save America

  16. #16
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    I'm in.

  17. #17
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    Why do we need to raise $100,000 dollars to build a trail??? This seems rediculous to me given the number of riders in the area would create an army of a volunteer workforce. Where do you think all the other trails in the area come from? We have an incredibly large and skilled group of trail builders lerking in the shaddows. Give me a shovel and i'll go build you some sweet berms and rollers right now. You don't need a 4 ft wide tractor build trail to have it be a "flow" trail or whatever word we're coining it now so it sounds mellow to land owners. (for the record, i did just donate money, just frustrated about government BS)

    Really though, when can I put my shovel in the ground? I'd love to help

  18. #18
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    Curious about where we are now with the donations...have we made a dent? I also agree that there will be LOTS of us willing to dig. Just say when...
    I'm not sure how this works.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Curious about where we are now with the donations...have we made a dent? I also agree that there will be LOTS of us willing to dig. Just say when...
    I WISH there were lots, but all my trail building experience proves otherwise. Hundreds of people ride demo, but when trailwork gets posted we only have 10-15 people.
    The Jim Donelly trail at Coe is about the same length, and crew of people spent many hours to only get it half done in a 2 year span.
    I will gladly let a 4' wide tractor in to do work. It will knock out the rough cut way quicker, and we can fine tune by hand.
    If we did it by hand with the current volunteer rate, my guess is 3+ years to completion.
    The first few work days will have 20+ volunteers, but interest fades quickly as people see how slow going trail building is.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug View Post
    I WISH there were lots, but all my trail building experience proves otherwise. Hundreds of people ride demo, but when trailwork gets posted we only have 10-15 people.
    The Jim Donelly trail at Coe is about the same length, and crew of people spent many hours to only get it half done in a 2 year span.
    I will gladly let a 4' wide tractor in to do work. It will knock out the rough cut way quicker, and we can fine tune by hand.
    If we did it by hand with the current volunteer rate, my guess is 3+ years to completion.
    The first few work days will have 20+ volunteers, but interest fades quickly as people see how slow going trail building is.
    I agree with you here though this trail has some mojo behind it as we don't want Marin to beat us. I think turn out will likely be quite a bit stronger than the yearly maintenance work. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

    Also you are dead on right about the need for machinery. I've walked some parts and scouted the areas and the dead fall is insane. No way we could accomplish with a bunch of fired up hand saws and shovels...not even close.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  21. #21
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    So in, and ready to dig
    Looking forward to riding my new Ibis, too
    "You are by far the most interesting single-serving friend I have ever met."

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWheels View Post
    Looking forward to riding my new Ibis, too
    Um, What?!!!
    Let's ride Saturday...Demo, as usual.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  23. #23
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    Great project. Thanks to all involved and to IBIS for stepping up to the plate to support this!!!

  24. #24
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    MBOSC are a great group of riders and advocates. I'm already in for $100 and I'll be throwing down some more at the STCP TrailHead Cyclery dirt demo this weekend...April 27-28.

    QUALITY trail building is a slow methodical process. Sure...can a 4 mile trail be built in a couple months...you betcha! BUT...can a quality 4 mile flow trail be built in/around the most badass trail network in CA in only a couple months...NO. This trail will take lots of time, $$$, manpower, support, and maintenance. The bay area is ready for this to happen...and happen RIGHT!
    "It's not about the bike"

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JefedelosJefes View Post
    Why do we need to raise $100,000 dollars to build a trail??? This seems rediculous to me given the number of riders in the area would create an army of a volunteer workforce. Where do you think all the other trails in the area come from? We have an incredibly large and skilled group of trail builders lerking in the shaddows. Give me a shovel and i'll go build you some sweet berms and rollers right now. You don't need a 4 ft wide tractor build trail to have it be a "flow" trail or whatever word we're coining it now so it sounds mellow to land owners. (for the record, i did just donate money, just frustrated about government BS)

    Really though, when can I put my shovel in the ground? I'd love to help
    Thank you for your donation to support this project and we would love for you to help us build this trail.

    The $100K pays for a full time trail designer/crew leader and a whole lot of machine time. We will probably bring in IMBA trail solutions to do some consultation. I don't think these costs are unreasonable for a properly designed 4 mile mountain bike trail. We used two methods for cost estimation and $100K is about $5/foot. This is a pretty long trail. One way to think of it is from the upper helipad to the bottom of Sawpit. It would take an army of volunteers a long time to hand build all that trail. We hope to have volunteers do shaping, tuning and finish work.

    We want this trail to be completed within 18-24 months and I don't think we can accomplish this with volunteer labor alone. I know a bit about organizing volunteers and it's never that easy. With volunteers, you are basically stealing their time from work, family and riding. I ran a mountain bike festival the other week and that required over 150 volunteers. Also, I've put about 200+ hours into the Emma McCrary trail through trail work, politics, fund raising and helped to recruit the trail crews. Emma's trail is a little over 2 miles long and is almost complete. It required about 3,500+ volunteer hours (plus staff time) over the course of 12 months. Most of the $32K that we raised for that trail was spent (about $22K) on 2 large span bridges and 3 puncheons. The flow trail in Demo doesn't cross any streams or watersheds so we won't have those costs.

    During the early stages of the Emma McCrary trail we were working in the field 3-4 days a week. This was much easier in Santa Cruz since some folks could do trail building after work and ride their bikes to the meeting place. Demo is much more remote and recruiting and organizing volunteers to get out there could be difficult. We hope to implement 5 day "spike camps" to consolidate some of the logistics in organizing volunteer work days.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Um, What?!!!
    Let's ride Saturday...Demo, as usual.
    The one I'm going to win in the drawing Until then it's the beat-up Nomad, which just keeps on rolling. Wish I could say the same for myself...
    Saturday is a maybe, MsWheels is still getting over the Cold From Hell so might need a Saturday to sleep in.
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  27. #27
    Let's Ride!
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    donated/entered!!!
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  28. #28
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    What would be really cool is if whoever won it donated back for a second drawing on either this project, the Mills Peak extension or the Corral Flow trail

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    What would be really cool is if whoever won it donated back for a second drawing on either this project, the Mills Peak extension or the Corral Flow trail
    Or just this one. Stay away from our donators you Tahoe hoodlum.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    What would be really cool is if whoever won it donated back for a second drawing on either this project, the Mills Peak extension or the Corral Flow trail
    I have been giving this some serious thought if I win. But I really want that bike...

  31. #31
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    I understand it is difficult to organize volunteers. What I always found interesting was where I went to college in SLO, they can get over 100 people out to work on trails, but here in the bay where the number of riders is astronomically larger, you can bareally rally 20 people to come help.

    What we have in the bay is a culture of take, not work. This is because, however, we have never had a significant legitimate ability to do work and see the direct bennefits without worrying about getting arrested. It will be interesting to see how/if this changes the more work is done to allow us to build fun trails we all want to ride.

    The real issue I see with starting like this, is that land owners are going to think it always costs $100,000 dollars to build a trail. With budget problems, we just aren't going to get very many trails. We might get a few, but lets face it, there isn't millions of dollars just waiting to go into bay area mountain bike trails. If, however, we can show that we (as a community) can build quality trails for FREE, well, that changes the game completely. That is how you change the landscape in the bay area. Sweat and blood... not dollars.

  32. #32
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    Hey Dan I understand that need a 3rd Ibis, so no worries ;-)

    squashyo, not trying to take dollars away, there are several worthy projects in Norcal, just thought a 2nd contest in the same market might not do as well as in another. If the winner wants to keep it I certainly would not look down on anyone who wanted to keep this killer prize, but if you can afford to buy one yourself, why not pay it forward to get more killer trails.

    Tractor was the first real long kickass downhill single track I ever rode (Before sawpit was built, so that ages me). A four mile flow trail just kinda boggles my mind, it's gonna be amazing, Demo is still close to my heart and I still get over there a few times a year, so I'm rooting/supporting this effort whole heartily!

    Cheers

  33. #33
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    Re: Help make the 4-mile Flow Trail in Demo Forest happen

    Definitely worth it, awesome culture

    Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

  34. #34
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    TahoeBC- don't mind squashyo. He's just an old greedy bastid that wants one more HD in the stable so that he can take turns on them (he's hard on bikes).

    Btw- I'll be out there tomorrow to establish a base for my "before" rides to compare to my "after" rides on my new HD. Thanks to everybody who is contributing!

    And: Even though typical trail work days at Demo only seem to draw around 15 people, a 4-freaking-mile long flow trail certainly will pull in 50+, right?! Look at all the people that turned out for the Tamo Flow Trail. Time to bring a friend and share a miracle!
    Last edited by dirtvert; 04-26-2013 at 08:50 AM.
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  35. #35
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    I'm in. I recently rode Demo for the first time (thanks again, Squashyo!) and I'll be back soon for sure.
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

  36. #36
    fc
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    Don't balk at the budget. It's good to have a goal and targets so this trail can be done right and fast. Also, we can harness all the corporate sponsors and the generous pockets of the bike community.

    Millions get raised every other day for this cause and that. Isn't this project worthy?

    Also, I talked to many folks about the trail work days recently (oregon, colorado small towns) and they get 50-80 people working in one day. Let's rally.

    fc
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  37. #37
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    We the people ... Some Flow Trail Deets

    Most of this is at Own the Flow | Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz (MBOSC) but I'd like to copy the highlights here...

    First of all, take a look at the vision that we want to bring to the Demo Forest:

    Help  make the 4-mile Flow Trail in Demo Forest happen-demoflowtraillettersize20130305hires-sm.jpg

    The flow trail will have a length of 3.5-4 miles and will have an average 6-7 percent grade, 38 switchbacks and a net elevation loss of 1280′. The expected trail width will be 3 feet on straight-aways, and somewhat wider on banked turns. It will intersect the Tractor Trail (now a road) in 5 places so there are ample opportunities to "session" sections of the trial.

    Features will be designed so that both intermediate and advanced riders will be able to enjoy the features according to their ability and riding speed. For example, jumps will be sited and built with long landings that allow riders to jump at a speed they are comfortable with and have a safe landing area (slower = smaller jump, faster = bigger jump). Rollers will be designed so they can be pumped or doubled depending on rider speed and skill. Any drops in the main line trail will be easily rollable and all difficult features will be located off of the main line of the trail with a braid to bypass them. This design style also minimizes skidding and abrupt changes in trail direction and speed that cause excessive trail wear. The trail will be signed at forks to alternate routes to indicate easy, moderate, advanced, and climbing segments.

    Included with this project is a plan for a bike skills development area near the lowest intersection of the new Flow Trail and will have cell phone reception and accessible by emergency vehicles. The skills area could have some balance features, a small jump/pump line, and some progressive drops. There is also room for a picnic table and benches to make an inviting rest point, and possibly interpretive signage about the forest. A large part of the skills area will be funded from the Mark Reynolds Memorial Fund. A plaque memorializing Mark Reynolds, who died at the Sea Otter in 2008 will be placed in this area.

    MBoSC holds high standards of trail design and construction. The new trail will be integrated into the landscape as much as possible, using natural features to guide the design and anchor the trail. Areas disturbed by construction will be renaturalized and the trail will be narrowed down after construction. We do not want this trail to feel like it was imposed on the terrain, but rather integrated into the terrain. User speed and sight lines will be carefully considered in the final design of the trail and placement and design of trail features to maximize enjoyment and minimize trail wear from abrupt changes in speed.

    This Flow Trail proposal represents a type of trail that does not currently exist on public lands within the greater San Francisco Bay Area but is in high demand from many mountain bikers, who will even travel out of state to experience this kind of riding. This project will provide a demonstration for skeptical land managers of a sustainable trail that incorporates advanced bicycle-oriented trail design and construction techniques. We believe that significant long-term benefits can be realized not only in the Santa Cruz mountains area, but also on a state wide and regional scale by showcasing the benefits of modern trail construction techniques. The Flow Trail will provide an example of the viability of providing a mountain biking trail that is intentionally built to be FUN AND SAFE while protecting natural and cultural resources.

    We anticipate that a bulk of the trail construction will be done with machines and skilled operators. Finish work will be done by hand tools and volunteer crews. We are thinking that we would like to have trail building and camping weekends to expedite construction. This trail can be built in 6 segments and each segment may be opened to the public when complete.

    We feel that segment 6 starting from the skills area will be the best segment of this trail and will focus a lot of resources building the berms, rollers, table tops and features. Segment 6 has the best soil and slope and will be an amazing complementary loop after a full Sawpit ride while coming back to Hihn's mill. As an added bonus segment 6 will start at the Mark Reynold's memorial skills area. This is a great place to have a bite to eat, socialize, chillax a bit and develop expectations on the skills before hitting the trail back down.

    Construction of the flow trail begins May 2013 – yes that soon – and will take between 18-24 months to complete depending on our ability to raise funds and deploy resources into the forest.

    You can all help make this trail a reality by supporting this fund raiser at Own the Flow | Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz (MBOSC). As an added bonus you can get the opportunity to win a really wicked bike from Ibis configured with FOX, Easton and Shimano components.

    Thank you all for supporting new trails in the Bay Area!

  38. #38
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    Fixed

    Quote Originally Posted by mrtoadsc View Post
    Most of this is at Own the Flow | Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz (MBOSC) but I'd like to copy the highlights here...

    First of all, take a look at the vision that we want to bring to the Demo Forest:
    Fixed:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Help  make the 4-mile Flow Trail in Demo Forest happen-bike-lift.jpg  

    I'm not sure how this works.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Fixed:
    Dude: that is hilarious! I wonder if we can get that past the environmental review

  40. #40
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    I just dropped $20. Would love to own a Ripley and ride a Demo Flow Trail!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtoadsc View Post
    Dude: that is hilarious! I wonder if we can get that past the environmental review
    Of course the tram would only be available to those that pitch in.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  42. #42
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    No Problem...

    Quote Originally Posted by mrtoadsc View Post
    Dude: that is hilarious! I wonder if we can get that past the environmental review
    ..it'll fit right in:
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    ..it'll fit right in
    Hah that is awesome. Nice logo on that thing!

    4 tickets in!

  44. #44
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    Entered/Donated!

    Mr Toad & the organizers -- BRILLIANT WORK thus far! Unreal that this is going to happen.

    Please do make sure the crew sticks to the plan of making this trail 100% rideable for Intermediates (as well as kick-ass fun for Experts).

    I know that this is the plan, with the ride-arounds for tricky stuff always in place, etc., but as we all know intentions are one thing but what actually happens is sometimes very different.... If the trail somehow were to be built skewing really just toward Expert riders, that would please many top riders for sure, but for the overall MTB community it would be massive lost opportunity.
    Last edited by primordial; 04-27-2013 at 06:44 PM. Reason: some spelling mistakes

  45. #45
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    So this is a general idea since I brought it up at a trail work day:

    What about doing a kickstarter-like program for this to get more funding?

  46. #46
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    I was just thinking, if I won, the bike could go to fund my desire for one of these --

    Moonlander with BionX - Electric Fat Bike | Video Review - Surly Moonlander with 36V custom BionX motor - EP-BC-BNX-SUR-Moonlander

    That said, I do believe a local two time bike winner has bought one ticket. Consider the raffle won. I tried invoking his name on some tickets to no avail

  47. #47
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    Just through down for a second round of tickets. This project is worth ever penny!

  48. #48
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    Donated. Looking forward to doing some digging too. Just say when...

  49. #49
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    I rode the awesome Tamarancho Flow trail yesterday and we need something like that down south - bought a second round of tickets.

    When are we starting to build?
    Correct number of bikes: n+1 bikes
    Correct body weight: m-10 pounds

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moto'n'PushBiker View Post
    I rode the awesome Tamarancho Flow trail yesterday and we need something like that down south - bought a second round of tickets.

    When are we starting to build?
    Hey Moto,

    Thank you for your support of the flow trail! Thank you for your second round of funding

    The project officially starts in late May but a lot of ground work started in January and the environmental review is in process.

    The lack of rain means that the soil conditions are not ideal for building yet so most of the summer will be clearing, planning, environmental review and detailed design work.

    We have been talking about building the skills area this summer since it's not dependent on soil conditions and we have a $10K commitment from the Mark Reynolds memorial fund. It would be great to complete this sub-project soon so that his legacy could be fulfilled.

    We hope to set up a mailing list to keep the community informed about the project and provide volunteer opportunities soon.

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