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  1. #26
    NedwannaB
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    Confused

    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelmotion View Post
    From time to time, I've felt kind of guilty for not doing an extra something myself, aside from pump track, and regular rides, to try and stay stronger, faster and better. Had to ask, because recently someone I know ate it pretty bad, and really, I felt his skills on the bike were to blame, while he cited his overall fitness was good enough to do anything. This is a guy that climbs, plays soccer, hanglides and does just about everything in between, including stepping on the bike.
    And really, since I've been seeing all this cross fit, cross training, mud running, pushup, weight lifitng type training all over the place becoming so popular, is it wrong I think all that takes away from my bike handling skills? When does it pay to stay off the bike and hone my fitness lifting a tractor tire? Won't I forget the feel of the side knobs and am I wrong to disagree with the logic in saying "I spent an extra hour doing cross fit last week, I should not have crashed, I'm super fit".
    I know fitness keeps us safe(er) from injury, but what am I missing? Should I feel guilty that all I do is ride bikes?
    Read thru this a couple times trying to get your point. Is it that he tried to find an explanation for his mishap or that you don't have any because you just ride?
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  2. #27
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    My binary response to you jmac, Nurture vs. nature I suppose.. It was weird, I dont do
    all these extra workouts, and wasn't the one getting fished out off the cliff. It was just kind of a weird thing, as always when people crash, but heres a guy i thought was s bad ass, and simply got in over his head. He "ran out of talent" as the title implies.

  3. #28
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    My take...

    Genetics are the biggest component that determines a person's ability to do any task. I remember reading a study years ago that tracked high level athletic couples to see how their athletic prowess was passed to their children. If I recall, they came to the conclusion that genetics represent 50% of a human's capacity for a skill. That means that it's more than everything else combined, e.g. practice, diet, desire, etc. If you are one of those that believe that you can be whatever you want if you just try harder or want it more, I'm not in your camp. I thought the summer Olympics were a great example of the role of genetics. Look at women's volleyball. How many 6' 4"+ women have you met? What chances do you think a 5' tall woman has of making the team. Sure, someone will pull out some random example ala Spud Webb, but this is not realistic.

    Does this mean that you shouldn't try? Hell no, but understand that we all have a limit and no amount of desire or practice will overcome it.

    My final take, endurance is easier to attain than skill. In general, to master a skill takes 10,000 hours. That why I really don't care if someone can turn a big ring. I'm impressed when someone cleans a section that blows my mind, or rides a manual at 35 miles an hour for a quarter mile, etc...

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overhillthruthewoods View Post
    My final take, endurance is easier to attain than skill.
    Love everything you said, but I can't agree here. I learned hang-5's in a couple of weeks. I bet I can teach anybody how to do basic trials moves (pedal-ups, hops, track stands, side drops, endo side drops, rock-walks, etc.) and they would be doing many of them by the end of the day. Not with any height, but off 12" blocks - easy. I learned all those things when I was 12/13 yrs. old.

    But - I've been seriously MTB'ing with tight consistency (50-100 miles a week since 2009) for 4 years and I get dropped like a sack of sand. I place back of the pack in races. I hate it, but I keep at it.

    I think it all comes down to what people lean towards and the alpha-male (females too) thing getting the best of people. Francis has been posting great things about cornering recently - and he admits that in all the time he's been riding, he never focused this much on skills. Why is that?

    I think people prioritize what comes easy - and if you're a thin, light rider with incredible cardio - why not kill the climbs and focus on endurance? Why "waste" your time with skill building? After all - that will "come" with riding.

    And so the result, are a bunch of really, really, really fit adults who are re-seeking out how to learn bike skill sets that my friends and I learned over 25 years ago as children. When I was 15, I couldn't care any less about some guy in lycra getting KOM at Wilder. But learning how to fast plant in a skatepark bowl? RAMP UP THE JAWN!

    So, I don't agree that endurance comes easier than skill. I just think people tend to work more on endurance and less on skill, as endurance is what "wins races".

    Strava doesn't give crowns because you learned how to up-and-over a 2' log pile or manual some triples on a pump track. Like I said, I've been trying to coax guys to do some urban trials with me, but no takers - they'd rather go climb fireroads.

  5. #30
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    I am a much better technical rider than my engine is, both up and down the mountain. Typically if I run out of talent is because I am gassed. That said I think it will take me a few tries before I can clean every section of Oat Hill Mine and to do the all in one go would be very difficult.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    In the spring and summer months, there is plenty of "talent" at St. Joe's in Los Gatos
    Now I know why you hang out there. I'll join you. (Kidding!)


    I'm in the camp that endurance seems easier to obtain for most because it's the low hanging fruit. You can run a marathon but still be the chubby guy wearing the Goo Belt.

    Skills? That takes a lot more patience because many haven't come across them before. But, a lot of done some kind of running, jumping, what-have-you growing up. The fruit for these is higher up along the tree until you get to the top.

    Personally, I want those skills - so I take my licks. I skid sideways on a corner trying to dig in without going fast enough, smack my head, and bleed sometimes. But, if I like it, it's worth it. Took me a bit, but I decided to get over my ego and just do it.
    Last edited by chris.george; 01-07-2013 at 06:57 PM.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris.george View Post
    Now I know why you hang out there. I'll join you. (Kidding!)


    I'm in the camp that endurance seems easier to obtain for most because it's the low hanging fruit. You can run a marathon but still be the chubby guy wearing the Goo Belt.

    Skills? That takes a lot more patience because many haven't come across them before. But, a lot of done some kind of running, jumping, what-have-you growing up. The fruit for these is higher up along the tree until you get to the top.

    Personally, I want those skills - so I take my licks. I skid sideways on a corner trying to dig in without going fast enough, smack my head, and bleed sometimes. But, if I like it, it's worth it. Took me a bit, but I decided to get over my ego and just do it.
    Some TSP guys and I were laughing about how I would like to kiss the man who invented yoga pants. Then we decided there needs to be a yoga pants store in Los Gatos. Los Gatos women love their yoga pants. I agree.

    On our ride over to St. Joe's - we passed a yoga clothing store.

    I think the best thing about MTB skill building is you don't need much. You don't need some crazy Kennedy fire road climb or single track. Just right outside your front door.

    Sometimes, I just like to ride around my neighborhood, bunny hopping piles of leaves, jumping stairs, dropping off planter boxes and benches, jumping curbs, kicking out on pinecones and hitting stuff with them, doing pedal-ups onto benches. It's all the stuff I did as a kid - just sessioning what you have in front of you - no commitment, getting creative. I don't think enough people do that now-a-days.

    It's all about PR's on climbs.

  8. #33
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    When I run out of talent, I find its often moments before I hit the ground in a often very amusing way.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I gas on climbs, but I can spin 360's, bunnyhop, wallride from a bunnyhop, feeble grind, do ground tricks, ride trials - all that. I rarely crash and I think it's years of BMX and crashing constantly has helped me learn how to "save" it.

    I almost get a little giggle when grown men on MTB's get super excited when they learn how to front wheel pivot 180º*and roll backwards. I never say it out loud, but to myself I'm thinking "Um, I learned how to do that when I was 12..."
    When/where is Dion's skillz class? Sign me up!

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Strava doesn't give crowns because you learned how to up-and-over a 2' log pile or manual some triples on a pump track. Like I said, I've been trying to coax guys to do some urban trials with me, but no takers - they'd rather go climb fireroads.
    This is some good ****... I've thought about starting a thread called "Ode to the KOM." It was going to be a poem discussing how a Strava KOM is a very narrow interpretation of being a king of the mountain and cheapens our sport into a roadie defined measurement. I thought about it for awhile but ran out of energy to put pen to paper.

    Also, I couldn't agree with you more in regards to the difficulty of coaxing mountain bikers to doing an "urban assault" ride. I lived in Cincinnati for a few years and I had to make due with what was available. I found out that hitting urban obstacles and honing trials skills is just as satisfying as riding singletrack in the mountains. Too bad we weren't closer, because I'd love to hit the city with ya.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Some TSP guys and I were laughing about how I would like to kiss the man who invented yoga pants. Then we decided there needs to be a yoga pants store in Los Gatos. Los Gatos women love their yoga pants. I agree.

    On our ride over to St. Joe's - we passed a yoga clothing store.
    Person who installed all those LuLuLemons was a genius!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I think the best thing about MTB skill building is you don't need much. You don't need some crazy Kennedy fire road climb or single track. Just right outside your front door.

    Sometimes, I just like to ride around my neighborhood, bunny hopping piles of leaves, jumping stairs, dropping off planter boxes and benches, jumping curbs, kicking out on pinecones and hitting stuff with them, doing pedal-ups onto benches. It's all the stuff I did as a kid - just sessioning what you have in front of you - no commitment, getting creative. I don't think enough people do that now-a-days.
    Don't want to ruin that fancy bike

    I'm guilty of not "putting in my dues" a lot of times. I've been *trying* to get better about just saying, "I'm bored. I'm going to go practice that wheelie or rolling over things."

    So, I totally agree with you. It's about the amount of effort you want to put into it.

  12. #37
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    [QUOTE=Overhillthruthewoods;10049091]
    Also, I couldn't agree with you more in regards to the difficulty of coaxing mountain bikers to doing an "urban assault" ride.

    +1 for urban assult rides. I think the video Dion sent out was a good example of how a cement hip in a parking lot can provide hours of clean and wholesome fun, for the whole crew....

  13. #38
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    Speaking of talent, would I be better off getting a BMX bike or a dirt jump bike to learn the basics, like manualing and all that other steezy stuff? I seem to have a hard time learning on my current stable of bikes (and need an excuse to get another one). I'm kinda leaning on a 26-inch DJ bike only because it looks cooler and I can interchange some parts.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    OTOH, to improve my cardio for the xc race i'm doing in the spring, I'm prolly better off going to spin classes than riding on trials. i do better at staying on the rivet in spin class than i do on the trails.
    Myself included. I'm looking at a really busy year of bike racing starting in spring, including a few XC races (to boost cardio, and of course humble myself) and I admit, need to do SOMEthing extra.. Seems like it was only yesterday I was taking second servings of home made fat and calories for the holidays.. Today, damn, I'm posting on mtbr talking about how some dude, way fitter than me stacked, when clearly I painted the picture that I was watching him being rescued with a jelly donut in my hand.. nom nom nom..

    And.. If I'm reading between the lines in Dion's posts correctly, apparently, spin class in Los Gatos is a good one to look up.. Toro Park is not all that far from Los Gatos.

    Damn yoga pants got me all off topic and shizzz.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron m. View Post
    Speaking of talent, would I be better off getting a BMX bike or a dirt jump bike to learn the basics, like manualing and all that other steezy stuff? I seem to have a hard time learning on my current stable of bikes (and need an excuse to get another one). I'm kinda leaning on a 26-inch DJ bike only because it looks cooler and I can interchange some parts.
    Ron: You really can't go wrong with a SS DJ bike. Personally, I prefer a rigid fork.

    A lot of O.G. riders are going with BMX cruisers. I've had a a Volume Sledgehammer, Redline 24" and an Eastern Traildigger. Stupidly, I traded my Eastern Traildigger and regret it!!!

    These can be had for a few hundred bucks. DJ's, I've found, are a bit more expensive and carry some additional bling, like a suspension fork and such. My friend raves over his Sunday Model C BMX Cruiser. I've ridden it, and it has BMX geometry on a 24" frame.

    This was my old bike. I LOVED this bike - I was just starting to bunnyhop over tipped over garbage cans when I made that stupid trade decision. I need to get my ass back onto one of these again - but with XC racing coming up... well, hmmmmmmm




  16. #41
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    Encouragement!



    Get a Sunday Model C!!! (this is what I want). I've heard nothing but great stuff about these bikes.


  17. #42
    Snowjnky McDreamy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Love everything you said, but I can't agree here. I learned hang-5's in a couple of weeks. I bet I can teach anybody how to do basic trials moves
    As long as they are sober ....#snowjnkyfail
    Have you ever, well, just ran out of talent?-snowjnkyfail.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Like I said, I've been trying to coax guys to do some urban trials with me, but no takers - they'd rather go climb fireroads.
    I am down, myself and another few friends use to have a urban assault night downtown SJ, lots if fun stuff to play on.

    Quote Originally Posted by IP_Ale View Post
    When/where is Dion's skillz class? Sign me up!
    me 2
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  18. #43
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    Chris,

    YOU can master the unbike! Unfortunately, I had to use the parts for my GT BMX - so no mo' unbike.


  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by abeckstead View Post
    Yes. I suffer from ROOTS. Running out of talent syndrome


    As I told my motorcycle riding friend: A wrist injury really slowed me down. The connection between my throttle hand and my balls seems to have been broken. I just don't go as fast.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by IP_Ale View Post
    When/where is Dion's skillz class? Sign me up!
    Make that 3.
    Some of you might have learned this stuff as kids, but girls were told to get back in the kitchen or some sh*t like that.

    Skillz progression is faster if someone is there that can correct you and break things up into mini-skillz. Not that I haven't rolled large sticks into my driveway to work on my hop timing, but I had to figure out that the timing was what I needed work on.
    "My opinions are often more offensive than my *******." - Twindaddy

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Chris,

    YOU can master the unbike! Unfortunately, I had to use the parts for my GT BMX - so no mo' unbike.

    I'm on it!

  22. #47
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    Specificity

    Core strength is important, and so is a good diet, but it all comes down to bike riding.

    I have no talent for bike riding, but I love it.

    Morgan

  23. #48
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    No urban assault for me. I, for one, would rather climb fire-roads. With that said, when I first got into mountain biking, I sucked at going over logs (o.k., I sucked at everything, bit I digress)). I would bash my ring into some, and walk others. All it took was one skilled guy to show me and a my buddy the proper technique. It did not take long before I could go over logs that many would dismount and walk over. So I must agree, skills can be had quickly if you are willing to learn and practice. That said, I love the feeling of conquering a long climb (especially a technical ones like going up Confluence here in Auburn). Oh, and I do go slow down hill. 1. a few bad wrecks that led to broken bones etc. 2. because of a rigid fork and 3. because that is my time to rest up for the next fire-road climb.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Wonder if these guys ever question what more can be done on a bike. They didn't get here doing push-ups!!! The last trick is INSANELY good!

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/56779850" width="500" height="367" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>



    Never underestimate the "alpha-male" mentality. A lot of guys do this "extra" stuff to feed their ego. MTB'ing is hard. You have climbing, but descending and navigating with speed on a downhill takes balls, skill, strength and endurance that is just overlooked.

    How often do you meet Mr. Alpha Male who will be completely aggressive on a climb, just to white knuckle tip-toe on a downhill? And going downhill is supposed to be "easy". I say some guys don't like that feeling, or they don't have the confidence to maintain control of a bike in that situation, so it's easier to do mud runs and push-ups and squats, where you don't have to deal with your inadequacies.

    Conversely, you get a lot of guys who are fast on downhills, but refuse to climb.

    Believe me, I'd love to just go downhill and play on technical stuff all day - but I suck at climbing, so I have to suck in my ego and go climb.
    Very well said Dion. I agree with everything you just said. And that last bit you said, that is me 100%, I suck at climbing too, but do it anyway to get to the good DH & FR stuff.
    Oldest daughter doesn't ride.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    I love doing urban assault rides. If anyone's game, lemme know.. at least when it's a bit warmer.
    With all the interest, this actually might be something we should get going come Spring!

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