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  1. #1
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    To the guy who almost made a 15-year-old girl cry at Tamarancho today.

    You suck.

    No, seriously dude, YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON.

    I volunteer with the NorCal High School Mountain Bike League, and we rented Tamarancho this weekend so we could have a clinic for beginner riders. These kids are freshmen and sophomores, most of whom have almost never been on a mountain bike before. But they're eager to learn, and super excited, and incredibly game. Remember how that feels? When you're young and you really love doing something, but you're not so good at it yet, and every hour you do it, you feel yourself improving? And if you're lucky, you're surrounded by grown-ups that are really supportive and encouraging, and make you feel good about yourself, so you try even harder?

    I hope you do.

    After working with the kids on specific skills (climbing, descending, cornering, lifting their front/rear wheels) all day in the center of camp, we took them on a 1-mile loop down Goldman to the Serpentine intersection, and then back up a fire road (not Serpentine) to the center of camp. We split 33 kids into 4 different groups, and gradually metered them out onto the trail. They were unbelievably excited to get to put their new-found skills to use on real, actual singletrack. Lots of these kids live in places where good singletrack can be hard to find, especially if you're a beginner rider, and many of them told me they couldn't believe how amazingly fun and beautiful the trail was.

    I coached the girls (6 of them) all day, and was their ride leader out on the (again, 1 mile long) Goldman loop. My boyfriend, Brian (who, by the way, is one of the people directing the construction of the flow trail up off of B-17 that you've probably seen but haven't helped build), was bringing up the rear of our group. One of the girls was struggling, as she had fallen earlier near the top of Goldman and had a tendency to get discouraged and down on herself. You were going the opposite way, and my group of girls in front was stopped, waiting to put some distance between them and the riders from a group farther up the trail. As I told them to move their bikes off the trail to let you pass, you made some exclamation that was a strange combination of anger and entitlement. I noticed the look on your face, and took a moment to explain, pointedly, that we were teaching a beginner mountain biking class. You left in a huff.

    I remember thinking, "Huh. That was weird. I hope he doesn't give the other girls any problems."

    Then you ran into Brian, and the girls bringing up the rear. The girl who had crashed was trying to regain her bearings on the trail, and you screamed at her, "Could you BE any more in the middle of the trail?!?" Then you tried to ride around her, and got hung up on a root, and ended up going over the bars, smacking your face into the ground.

    (This should have been your first clue that maaaybe your behavior wasn't the kind that the universe typically rewards.)

    Then you got up, and yelled at the girl, "You made me TRIP!!!" By this time, the other adults riding sweep had shown up. Condescension dripping from your voice, you announced your opposition to having this many young people out on the trail. The adults replied with a reasoned explanation of why they had every right to be there, that the kids were only riding a 1-mile long loop that would end for all intents and purposes at the Serpentine intersection, and that they hoped you enjoyed the rest of your ride. You didn't say a word, and once again left in a huff.

    I want you to know that even though your behavior made that girl (and the others who witnessed this exchange) extremely upset (how could they feel like they belonged there?!?), they recovered enough to complete a tough singletrack climb later on in the center of camp. I want you to know that even though you acted like an enormous, necrotic dick, other grown-ups they encountered this afternoon on the trail (for the literally 25 minutes they were out there) were incredibly supportive, and thrilled to see them trying their new skills on a real, legit mountain bike trail. I want you to know that when the ride was done, the first girl into camp exclaimed, "Oh my God!! That was so much better than soccer, or basketball, or softball!! That was amazing!!" Another said, "wow, so when you get used to the trail, you don't really think about the rocks or the bumps, huh? That's pretty cool."

    Did you feel that way when you finished your ride today?

    I hope you did. And I hope that if you read this, you try to remember how you felt when you were learning to ride a mountain bike. I hope you remember how much it meant to feel like even if you weren't super fast, or super skilled, you belonged on the trail, because how could you not, when it made you feel so awesome?

    And maybe, just maybe, the next time you encounter some kids who are leaving their heart and soul out on the trail, you'll think enough to leave some of yours with them.

    Because otherwise, you are seriously a saddle sore on the @ss of humanity.
    Quote Originally Posted by jbt56
    Are you a whiny Marin liberal, or a hand-wringing Berkeley liberal?

  2. #2
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    wow! good on ya for teaching these future rock stars. sorry about this bad seed...they are few and far between i hope they know.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  3. #3
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    Wow. Great post. Hope he reads it.

  4. #4
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    Lance???

  5. #5
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    Sorry but I'm tired of hearing about these type of people on the the trail. Road, maybe, but no place for this on the trail. Especiaclly with kids, beginners..

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    wow! good on ya for teaching these future rock stars. sorry about this bad seed...they are few and far between i hope they know.
    I have the exact same sentiments.

  7. #7
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    We never should have gotten away from the long Silca frame pumps.

  8. #8
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    How awesome! I mean that in a good way for the kids you're teaching. So many times you end up dealing with weirdos on the trails just like in real life. With the support you guys are giving them and the encouragement they received by others, these kids will be far ahead in life. Thanks for taking the time to pass on knowledge and kindness and this jackhole experienced kharma pretty quick I would say.
    They never made the "Slowster"

  9. #9
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    LOL,, hit his face, somebody shoulda pointed and laughed like nelson from the simpsons at him

  10. #10
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    People like that suck. What's the rush? You're supposed to have fun out there.

    Vids of ******guy going endo?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymouseTech View Post
    People like that suck. What's the rush? You're supposed to have fun out there.

    Vids of ******guy going endo?
    Brian: "I wish. I only wish. Oh man."

    I'm sure that the NorCal website/FB page will, however, have pics/video of the kids being awesome. They're the ones that should really get the attention, not these ******nozzles. But I needed to get that off my chest. God, PEOPLE, ugh.
    Quote Originally Posted by jbt56
    Are you a whiny Marin liberal, or a hand-wringing Berkeley liberal?

  12. #12
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    So funny... went OTB then blamed someone else.....

    We get many HS newbie's training on Diablo, I always give them plenty of stoke, room on the trail or just stop and wait till it clears out...

  13. #13
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Man this peesis me off on so many levels.
    I promised myself One of my New Years resolutions would be to not be so negative here on MTBR but Dbags like this have no place on the trails.
    Last week quite a few of us were working on the new awesome Flow trail that the Boy scouts have so generously allowed us to build, and while clearing logs and doing other trail maintenance on the main trail, a couple Johnny rockets come down the trail at speed and act like we're in the way.
    Give us the hurumfp like we messed up their flow or something.
    Didn't say hi, didn't ask what we were doin, just gave us attitude and away they went.
    F U

    Now normally I would usually say something smartassy but I went neck down and and kept focusing on working on getting the awesome flow trail built but next time you can count on a Pulaski up your rear if you don't show some respect, humility, and patience to the people who are trying to make the place your riding a better place.
    I have a friend who's been a trip leader for TFK for over a decade or more and iv'e helped on tons of rides with the kids and I've never seen anyone act like the guy you encountered today.
    Karma was definitely working on him it sounds like.
    Thank you for helping the kids.
    Im sure you told them people like this are few and far between and thats not how we act on the trail or life for that matter.
    PS
    Alot of folks don't want this Flow trail built, they think its the beginning of the end, whatever that means, and we'll have too much fun or whatever, but we need to make it happen.
    If we don't, they will just keep holding us back from being better MTB'ERS and people.
    Tamo is just the beginning and maybe just maybe, one day, hopefully in my lifetime, the birthplace of MTBing, Marin, can be a shining example of what can be done when people come together and SHARE!
    FOCC are not our friends.
    MMWD are not our friends
    BTCM are not our friends
    Rant over.
    Poach till ya puke.
    C ya at Tamo.
    To the guy who almost made a 15-year-old girl cry at Tamarancho today.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1358669472.718292.jpg
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  14. #14
    Save Jesus
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    I imagine that if I landed on my face I'd be in a bad mood too.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmarshall View Post
    So many times you end up dealing with weirdos on the trails just like in real life.
    P-marsh, I wish you wouldn't talk about me while I'm sitting right here. If you need to say I'm a weirdo, say it to my FACE!

    Seriously, I rode my BMX through my old spots yesterday all about Santa Cruz and it was going down memory lane. I could recall all the times, as a young teen, ADULTS came at me aggressively - one time with closed fist just because he almost hit me with his car. I was small (13 yrs.), and I also remember a skateboarder rushing up and destroying the man's pickup with his skateboard, saving me from an ass whooping. The man pushed me into a bush and had his fist raised to punch me (again, I was 13) before Mr. Guardian Angel destroyed him,

    Let this be a lesson to young people - some "adults" can be DCKS! At that point, you just can't reason with them... they need a good "FWCK OFF!" and for all to continue riding, leaving him behind and his dckhead behavior.

    From my incident, it taught me that some adults are not the level headed mature people I thought they were. Some of them just need to be put in their place. I would've never negotiated with the guy explaining trail rights, etc. The moment he started ranting I would've shamed him, and told the kids to move on. He doesn't deserve the courtesy of an adult conversation.

    On top of the skills and physical lessons you fine folks gave to the kids, that incident taught them something equally as valuable, for the trail and for LIFE. Some adults are just plain dcks, and need to be shamed and ignored, on and off the trail.


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  16. #16
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    How does one "trip" on a bike?

    Sounds like a real pro...

    Seriously though, I'm involved coaching on of the local NorCal teams and 99.9% of the time while out on team rides we get very positive responses. As coaches we always give other riders "heads up" to what coming, or let them through, as some kids are still learning on technical trails. We don't want to screw up anyones ride/fun/flow either. We also encourage/preach to the kids to not be a-holes on the trail. Another good point GoGo brought up was to be respectful of the diligent trail workers, this time of year normal maintenance usually occurs. We rode there last weekend amongst them. Always slowed down and gave them each a thank you, etc. Some of our team volunteers there occasionally too, especially with the flow section work happening.

    Sounds like a rare/unfortunate encounter, also sounds like you handled it well, took the high road, etc. Keep up the good work!

  17. #17
    fc
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    How come all the 'open letters' here are to jackasses?

    Where's all the nice people?

    fc

  18. #18
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    fits the rider
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  19. #19
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    Sounds like karma reared it's ugly head as is often the case. I live near Deer Park and I see groups of kids all the time and I've got nothing but praise for their teachers! Keep up the good work.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    How come all the 'open letters' here are to jackasses?

    Where's all the nice people?

    fc
    The nice people on on the message boards getting ready to ride.


    Sorry to hear that news Piranha. Great for you for getting out there to help with our youth!!!
    Always preach the Gospel; even if you need to use words.

  21. #21
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    glad that none of the students were hurt!

    it could be worse though--yesterday was the 2nd time in Annadel i saw what i'll politely call the "white supremacist/skinhead crowd) ha ha. i think in general there is a larger percentage of less polite trail users of all kinds out there (although 95% of people that I run into are still awesome).
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  22. #22
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    Karma is working. Glad the kids had a gods time.

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  23. #23
    don't try this at home
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    that really sucks. hope that didn't discourage anyone from going back out there. i just don't understand why people can't be polite and courteous. although if i was with a group of kids and someone yelled at one that was trying to learn how to ride, it would've been hard not to throw them and their bike down the hill.
    will you rep me?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    How come all the 'open letters' here are to jackasses?

    Where's all the nice people?

    fc
    Open letter to Snowjnky. - Mtbr Forums
    They never made the "Slowster"

  25. #25
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    It's sad to hear that a grown man has to yell at a young girl regardless of skill level. You would think that given the nice weather and a packed parking lot that you will probably encounter others on the trail. It's too bad but a reality that you're going to have bad apples.

  26. #26
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    Thanks for supporting the League Camp. We started those in 2003 a they have been a great welcome and season starter.

    I never let anyone mess with my kids; folks often got as good as they gave. Maybe not the best approach...
    I don't rattle.

  27. #27
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    OP, was the guy wearing a local team kit? If so, it would reflect poorly on that organization/bike shop if you posted it here and might spur some internal debate. Just saying...

  28. #28
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    The sooner kids learn how to tell what matters and what doesn't, the better off they will be. This guy doesn't matter and doesn't deserve our time. Can be a tough lesson but, a good lesson when quality role models are around for guidance. Sounds like the kids learned something about when to just let it roll off and enjoyed their day.

  29. #29
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    We took the kids out again today on a longer loop that took them up B-17 and the extension, so we could show them the work that's going into the construction of the flow trail. The girls were so excited after riding B-17 that they wanted to try the jump loop off the extension, so we took them down it so they could roll it (JUST roll it!) and learn how jumps feel. We ran into lots more riders doing the regular loop, and everyone was really polite and awesome (the way they usually are!).

    I think all the kids learned that people like the buttmuncher from yesterday are definitely the exception, not the rule. Thanks to all you guys and gals out there that are just happy to see other people, young or old, on the trail, and motivate them to do their best!!
    Quote Originally Posted by jbt56
    Are you a whiny Marin liberal, or a hand-wringing Berkeley liberal?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piranha426 View Post
    We took the kids out again today on a longer loop that took them up B-17 and the extension, so we could show them the work that's going into the construction of the flow trail. The girls were so excited after riding B-17 that they wanted to try the jump loop off the extension, so we took them down it so they could roll it (JUST roll it!) and learn how jumps feel. We ran into lots more riders doing the regular loop, and everyone was really polite and awesome (the way they usually are!).

    I think all the kids learned that people like the buttmuncher from yesterday are definitely the exception, not the rule. Thanks to all you guys and gals out there that are just happy to see other people, young or old, on the trail, and motivate them to do their best!!
    You just got your local card.

    Still can't tell me what to do tho

  31. #31
    Save Jesus
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    conflict resolution and de-escalation is also a good mtb skill to learn

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    conflict resolution and de-escalation is also a good mtb skill to learn
    Maybe he just needs a more brutal endo?

  33. #33
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    Then you tried to ride around her, and got hung up on a root, and ended up going over the bars, smacking your face into the ground.
    Video would have been so classic. I hope he got up bloody.
    2012 Rockhopper 29er.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Maybe he just needs a more brutal endo?
    you shouldn't be wishing bad things on people who displease or inconvenience you

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    We never should have gotten away from the long Silca frame pumps.
    With the metal Campy head!
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  36. #36
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    I think it is important to point out bad behavior like this.

    If someone in your group pulls this kind of action, you need to point it out. Maybe you have to be diplomatic to your riding buddy if a hot head. I hate to see this kind of story. Great sunny day, out in the woods, with friends, then this! Keep Mt biking fun for all. Don't let jerks get away with it.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piranha426 View Post
    We took the kids out again today on a longer loop...
    Thank you for being a great coach/teacher to those kids!

    I've had a couple of run-ins with rude riders when I've had the team out on training rides. Similar situation with riders blowing past and pissing about being in their way. I would bite my tongue and show restraint. It was tough not to lay into them. But the kids seem to understand that there will always be jerks.

    Plus, I know that some of these NorCal kids have gone on to improve so much that they could easily drop those jerks... up or downhill.
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  38. #38
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    Thank you to all the NorCal coaches and volunteers, NICA is a great organization made up of great people. Even if you don't have kids or yours are already out of school if your close to where one of their races are taking place you should check it out just a great atmosphere.

  39. #39
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    This could have been an awesome passive-aggressive lesson.

    Brian talking to the girl in front of the ****** "See, here's a perfect example of how not to act on the trail. We're all here having fun, but this guys has a bad attitude and is being a dick, and look what it got him. An embarrassing crash and a face full of dirt. Had he been respectful and considerate of others enjoying the sport he'd be going home with dignity and self-respect."
    At which point they start riding back up hill and never acknowledge the dbag.

  40. #40
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    Point-Counterpoint

    I was not out in riding in Marin today.

    However, A bunch of my friends were out there today.

    Here's an alternate point of view from a rider who is an active member of local groups, a veteran rider who has paid his dues with beginner clinics, trail work days, etc.

    "I'll put down in the memory books, if I'm MTB coaching kids someday and running a "beginners seminar," Tamorancho is probably not the idea place to take, what, 50 kids? Nice to see them out, but I hope they were having more fun than some of their faces revealed."

  41. #41
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    you shouldn't be wishing bad things on people who displease or inconvenience you
    I wish you'd shut the...
    O nevermind...
    Banned for showing Boobies.

  42. #42
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    That blows and he got what he deserved.

    Today I was nearing the end of a 15 mile loop and was on some tight single track and saw a young boy and his dad riding downhill slowly towards me. I could see the boy was concentrating hard on keeping is bike on the trail, so even though I had the right of way, I pulled off. As he passed me, I told him that he was doing great and keep up the good work.

    It's so important for young people to have good experiences in the outdoors and learn to enjoy it. They spend too much time on video games and their early experiences in the outdoors need to be good ones to encourage them to go back,

  43. #43
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    Good on you for teaching the youngsters and keeping it cool

    That guy was a total ******bag...glad he fell on his face.
    Switchbaxr

  44. #44
    PMarsh Thumbs Up!
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    Probably a roadie, they are all *****. (some sarcasm)

    I was riding on PAVEMENT on my Glory around the lake at home to get from one side to the other, and of course I had my FF popped up on my head. This guy passes me from behind and says "do you think your helmet does any good like that?" I was caught off guard so couldn't think of a witty remark, but I did turn around and go the other way hoping to pass him and see how good his tires do on grass. Oh, he had his bib off, and looked like he had a diaper on.
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  45. #45
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    A skilled rider would never blame their own endo on someone else, unless we are talking, say, someone in the middle of a closed course dh around a blind corner.

  46. #46
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    There is always a bad apple on the trail and I personally believe that the "Master of Endo" rider got what he deserved. Be a gentleman on and off the trail and have some decency, patience, and compassion when dealing with our future riders. These are the kids that will fall in love with the sport, fight to keep the trails open, and lead the way to all the positive things that come with mountain biking. They will be here long after we are six feet under and teaching them how to handle a-holes like this one will make the trail a better place to be in the future. Kudos to the instructors and all the professional people leading these kids on this ride. Thank you for posting this and as responsible MTB riders that we are, we need to reflect on how many times this incident happens on the trail and really hone our mental skills on how to react in a way that these bad apples in no way ruin the beauty and essence of the ride on each specific trail.

  47. #47
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Quote Originally Posted by zgroove View Post
    There is always a bad apple on the trail and I personally believe that the "Master of Endo" rider got what he deserved. Be a gentleman on and off the trail and have some decency, patience, and compassion when dealing with our future riders. These are the kids that will fall in love with the sport, fight to keep the trails open, and lead the way to all the positive things that come with mountain biking. They will be here long after we are six feet under and teaching them how to handle a-holes like this one will make the trail a better place to be in the future. Kudos to the instructors and all the professional people leading these kids on this ride. Thank you for posting this and as responsible MTB riders that we are, we need to reflect on how many times this incident happens on the trail and really hone our mental skills on how to react in a way that these bad apples in no way ruin the beauty and essence of the ride on each specific trail.
    +1 +2 +3
    What he said!!

    Also to this neg repper..

    To the guy who almost... 01-20-2013 03:24 PM FKFW BTCM built T-Ranch don't harsh on them


    Their not helping now are they........

    Also If you neg rep me me I'm callin you out so all can see.
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    Last edited by GoGoGordo; 01-20-2013 at 09:41 PM.
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  48. #48
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    First of all, good on ya for being a positive influence.

    Second, you should all thank your lucky stars that you don't live in Socal, where similar acts of douchbaggery (sic) occur frequently on the trails, freeways, gas stations, coffee shops, etc. We're moving back to San Jose in a few weeks, and I can not wait!
    Last edited by dirtvert; 01-20-2013 at 09:50 PM.
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  49. #49
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    Lived in SoCal trails and I must agree, no love for any type of cyclist. Sycamore Canyon, Backbone Trail, and Laguna NIguel trails are pretty awesome trails though....

  50. #50
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    Not sure about everyone else but I look forward to riding to unwind from the week of work! If I can get a good flow on a trail great! if it's busy with people doing the same as me great! If younger riders are enjoying the trails even better! Basically life is to short to stress out on the trail so "Lance" should wipe the dirt off his face, apologize and walk home and sell his bike! IMO

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfreak View Post
    Not sure about everyone else but I look forward to riding to unwind from the week of work! If I can get a good flow on a trail great! if it's busy with people doing the same as me great! If younger riders are enjoying the trails even better! Basically life is to short to stress out on the trail so "Lance" should wipe the dirt off his face, apologize and walk home and sell his bike! IMO
    Good job SCfreak!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    You just got your local card.

    Still can't tell me what to do tho
    Aww. Thanks, Davey. And don't worry, I would never try...
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    Quote Originally Posted by testing1.2.3. View Post
    Point-Counterpoint

    I was not out in riding in Marin today.

    However, A bunch of my friends were out there today.

    Here's an alternate point of view from a rider who is an active member of local groups, a veteran rider who has paid his dues with beginner clinics, trail work days, etc.

    "I'll put down in the memory books, if I'm MTB coaching kids someday and running a "beginners seminar," Tamorancho is probably not the idea place to take, what, 50 kids? Nice to see them out, but I hope they were having more fun than some of their faces revealed."
    (sigh)

    OK.

    1. Tamarancho is one of the only places we can take these kids, unless we want to pay State Parks a crazy amount of money to rent out a campground. NorCal has held this camp at Tamarancho for 6 years now, and it's always worked really well for the kids and the camp.

    2. Like I said in the OP, most of the time, the kids weren't on the trail network - they were in the camp itself, where we set up skill-learning stations. We're not dumb, we know Tamarancho is a challenging place to ride, which is why when we did take the kids out on the trails, we took them on the easier parts of Goldman and B-17. No Serpentine, no Wagon Wheel, only the top of Broken Dam. I emphasized to my group of girls how impressive it was that they were riding the trails at Tamarancho, because none of the race courses they would be on would be half as hard. They loved the trails and felt pretty darn proud of themselves when they figured this out!

    3. I saw tons of smiles today. They're teenagers concentrating on learning something new - what would your facial expression be? I didn't talk to a single kid today who wasn't happy that they signed up. I mean... ok, whatever, dude. This is silly.

    These camps happen twice a year on private land. If people are going to get butthurt because for TWO weekends out of the year, they have to share a teeeny part of one trail system with a bunch of kids... they need to get over themselves. That's absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by jbt56
    Are you a whiny Marin liberal, or a hand-wringing Berkeley liberal?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piranha426 View Post
    (sigh)

    OK.

    1. Tamarancho is one of the only places we can take these kids, unless we want to pay State Parks a crazy amount of money to rent out a campground. NorCal has held this camp at Tamarancho for 6 years now, and it's always worked really well for the kids and the camp.

    2. Like I said in the OP, most of the time, the kids weren't on the trail network - they were in the camp itself, where we set up skill-learning stations. We're not dumb, we know Tamarancho is a challenging place to ride, which is why when we did take the kids out on the trails, we took them on the easier parts of Goldman and B-17. No Serpentine, no Wagon Wheel, only the top of Broken Dam. I emphasized to my group of girls how impressive it was that they were riding the trails at Tamarancho, because none of the race courses they would be on would be half as hard. They loved the trails and felt pretty darn proud of themselves when they figured this out!

    3. I saw tons of smiles today. They're teenagers concentrating on learning something new - what would your facial expression be? I didn't talk to a single kid today who wasn't happy that they signed up. I mean... ok, whatever, dude. This is silly.

    These camps happen twice a year on private land. If people are going to get butthurt because for TWO weekends out of the year, they have to share a teeeny part of one trail system with a bunch of kids... they need to get over themselves. That's absurd.
    Well said. I did a night ride here last week and came across a large group of hikers (~30) with at least a dozen dogs in the group and it was a real surprise. But rather than being pissy about it taking a good bit of time to slowly get around them, as I passed each of them I commented to them about what a beautiful night it was for a hike and the dogs must be loving it!

  55. #55
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    Unfortunately, there are people that prize their "flow" more than following the rules of the trail and common courtesy for children and obvious newbies on the trail.

    These are the people that will ride around you on singletrack as you are climbing, widening the trail, sometimes clipping you, trampling vegetation, etc...

    These are the people that won't automatically start pulling off the trail when they see a rider that has the right of way or a hiker/horse. They'll ride toward them in a form of "chicken" to see who gets off the trail first. They aren't following the rules, but forcing the other person to yield, but in their mind, since the "other person" moved off the trail, they rationalize it as "well the other guy decided to yield".

    This isn't uphill or downhill riders, it's just the common a-holes that can't drive a little further to a less popular trail, or realize that if they ride every weekend or every few days they WILL have plenty of time where they don't have to yield or can get a "flow" on. But they think every single trail is the last one they'll ride and they'll ride like a-holes because of it.

    There are more of these people than I think we'd like to admit, even on this site.

    Sorry about getting yelled at.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  56. #56
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    Maybe out of county residents need to pay 4 times what locals pay, that would certainly help.

  57. #57
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    Side question. My asking has absolutely no bearing on the OP's situation as I think the d-bag got what he deserved...

    When on a hill on a singletrack, who does have the right of way? The trails I ride are luckily not very populated. I've only encountered the situation a couple times. Once I was walking a climb and got out of the way because it was easier for me to move then the guy still on his bike. And the other was the same but I was riding down and someone else was walking up.

    Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled pointing and laughing at the faceplant guy.
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    Oh, and I do believe this calls for a meme or 2.

    2012 Rockhopper 29er.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by testing1.2.3. View Post
    Point-Counterpoint

    I was not out in riding in Marin today.

    However, A bunch of my friends were out there today.

    Here's an alternate point of view from a rider who is an active member of local groups, a veteran rider who has paid his dues with beginner clinics, trail work days, etc.

    "I'll put down in the memory books, if I'm MTB coaching kids someday and running a "beginners seminar," Tamorancho is probably not the idea place to take, what, 50 kids? Nice to see them out, but I hope they were having more fun than some of their faces revealed."
    I'm about to get for real right about now. The work these guys are doing at Nor Cal is the single most important important thing that can happen with mountain biking. Let me explain. I helped coach the first ever Nor Cal camp that was held in Tahoe and I immediately saw the light. All of these kids who were by definition goal oriented, talented and smart enough to get to go to the camp would come back to the Bay Area and become an important members of the community. If I could teach them the simple love of going for a bike ride in the woods they would want to do this later in life. If these kids came back to the Bay Area and were important members of the community and had a love for mountain biking they would change the Bay Area to a mountain biking mecca, instead of the closed off hell I grew up with. Whatever I accomplish, sit at a few meetings for bike parks or the Flow Trail work it will never ever amount to what the droves of kids that have gone through the Nor Cal camp will accomplish. However, it is happening even faster. Now the evil soccer mom in her SUV has a couple of kids who ride mountain bikes. Yeah dude soccer mom Betty doesn't yell at me for riding trails anymore. She thanks me for helping little Johnny at the last camp or ride. The whole community is getting involved now and soon the bike haters of the past will be dead, buried under six feet of dirt and they will be replaced by the army of little mountain bikers that the Nor Cal league has brought up.

    No matter what I did with my life it couldn't hold a candle to what these kids will accomplish. There are more of them every year and the single most important thing we can do is support them.

    So bring it on. You want to talk vet status? I have had a Tamarancho pass since they issued them. I went to Redwood High School. Class of '96. I rode De La's. I busted out on more single track then I care to admit. I got tickets. I have done trail work both legal and illegal. Pay your dues? I will show you some dues paying bro and nothing in the whole entire world would make me happier to see an ARMY of kids on mountain bikes at Tamarancho. Even if it meant I had to walk the entire loop. It would be the best day of my life. It would be the day that mountain biking came out of the shadows and became a legitimate thing. This vet would be stoked to tears to see such a thing and people like Piranha are making that happen. The next camp is the weekend of the 2nd. I will be there helping kids with bike fits. I've been doing it since the first camp at Tamo and even longer. You should check it out and see what a wonderful experience it is. It is better than any day out the bike.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I'm about to get for real right about now...
    PREACH!!!

    /waves arms in the air like she just don't care

    For more info, or to sign up to volunteer: NorCal
    Quote Originally Posted by jbt56
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  61. #61
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    Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I'm about to get for real right about now. The work these guys are doing at Nor Cal is the single most important important thing that can happen with mountain biking. Let me explain. I helped coach the first ever Nor Cal camp that was held in Tahoe and I immediately saw the light. All of these kids who were by definition goal oriented, talented and smart enough to get to go to the camp would come back to the Bay Area and become an important members of the community. If I could teach them the simple love of going for a bike ride in the woods they would want to do this later in life. If these kids came back to the Bay Area and were important members of the community and had a love for mountain biking they would change the Bay Area to a mountain biking mecca, instead of the closed off hell I grew up with. Whatever I accomplish, sit at a few meetings for bike parks or the Flow Trail work it will never ever amount to what the droves of kids that have gone through the Nor Cal camp will accomplish. However, it is happening even faster. Now the evil soccer mom in her SUV has a couple of kids who ride mountain bikes. Yeah dude soccer mom Betty doesn't yell at me for riding trails anymore. She thanks me for helping little Johnny at the last camp or ride. The whole community is getting involved now and soon the bike haters of the past will be dead, buried under six feet of dirt and they will be replaced by the army of little mountain bikers that the Nor Cal league has brought up.

    No matter what I did with my life it couldn't hold a candle to what these kids will accomplish. There are more of them every year and the single most important thing we can do is support them.

    So bring it on. You want to talk vet status? I have had a Tamarancho pass since they issued them. I went to Redwood High School. Class of '96. I rode De La's. I busted out on more single track then I care to admit. I got tickets. I have done trail work both legal and illegal. Pay your dues? I will show you some dues paying bro and nothing in the whole entire world would make me happier to see an ARMY of kids on mountain bikes at Tamarancho. Even if it meant I had to walk the entire loop. It would be the best day of my life. It would be the day that mountain biking came out of the shadows and became a legitimate thing. This vet would be stoked to tears to see such a thing and people like Piranha are making that happen. The next camp is the weekend of the 2nd. I will be there helping kids with bike fits. I've been doing it since the first camp at Tamo and even longer. You should check it out and see what a wonderful experience it is. It is better than any day out the bike.
    Keep the Flow going Davey.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I'm about to get for real right about now. The work these guys are doing at Nor Cal is the single most important important thing that can happen with mountain biking...
    So very well said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Maybe out of county residents need to pay 4 times what locals pay, that would certainly help.
    I 2nd this.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piranha426 View Post
    (sigh)

    OK.

    1. Tamarancho is one of the only places we can take these kids, unless we want to pay State Parks a crazy amount of money to rent out a campground. NorCal has held this camp at Tamarancho for 6 years now, and it's always worked really well for the kids and the camp.

    2. Like I said in the OP, most of the time, the kids weren't on the trail network - they were in the camp itself, where we set up skill-learning stations. We're not dumb, we know Tamarancho is a challenging place to ride, which is why when we did take the kids out on the trails, we took them on the easier parts of Goldman and B-17. No Serpentine, no Wagon Wheel, only the top of Broken Dam. I emphasized to my group of girls how impressive it was that they were riding the trails at Tamarancho, because none of the race courses they would be on would be half as hard. They loved the trails and felt pretty darn proud of themselves when they figured this out!

    3. I saw tons of smiles today. They're teenagers concentrating on learning something new - what would your facial expression be? I didn't talk to a single kid today who wasn't happy that they signed up. I mean... ok, whatever, dude. This is silly.

    These camps happen twice a year on private land. If people are going to get butthurt because for TWO weekends out of the year, they have to share a teeeny part of one trail system with a bunch of kids... they need to get over themselves. That's absurd.
    You don't owe that guy any sort of explanation. Thinking that keeping kids off the trails to learn how to MTB ride is just idiotic. Don't like them being there, find somewhere else to ride; however, the last time I checked most trail areas aren't rated as 18 years old or more only.

    Keep working with the kids and teaching them an understanding of the sport and the skills it takes.
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  65. #65
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    My take away from this is that there are lots of awesome folks out there on the trails. I got a lump in my throat reading Piranha's descriptions of these kids reaction to mountain biking. Awesome work!

    Sounds like the jerk should stick to riding his bike on Camino Alto, but I am so stoked to hear of all the great work and other supportive riders out there. We should always look after one another on the trails and foster a sense of community.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by davey simon View Post
    i'm about to get for real right about now. The work these guys are doing at nor cal is the single most important important thing that can happen with mountain biking. Let me explain. I helped coach the first ever nor cal camp that was held in tahoe and i immediately saw the light. All of these kids who were by definition goal oriented, talented and smart enough to get to go to the camp would come back to the bay area and become an important members of the community. If i could teach them the simple love of going for a bike ride in the woods they would want to do this later in life. If these kids came back to the bay area and were important members of the community and had a love for mountain biking they would change the bay area to a mountain biking mecca, instead of the closed off hell i grew up with. Whatever i accomplish, sit at a few meetings for bike parks or the flow trail work it will never ever amount to what the droves of kids that have gone through the nor cal camp will accomplish. However, it is happening even faster. Now the evil soccer mom in her suv has a couple of kids who ride mountain bikes. Yeah dude soccer mom betty doesn't yell at me for riding trails anymore. She thanks me for helping little johnny at the last camp or ride. The whole community is getting involved now and soon the bike haters of the past will be dead, buried under six feet of dirt and they will be replaced by the army of little mountain bikers that the nor cal league has brought up.

    No matter what i did with my life it couldn't hold a candle to what these kids will accomplish. There are more of them every year and the single most important thing we can do is support them.

    So bring it on. You want to talk vet status? I have had a tamarancho pass since they issued them. I went to redwood high school. Class of '96. I rode de la's. I busted out on more single track then i care to admit. I got tickets. I have done trail work both legal and illegal. Pay your dues? I will show you some dues paying bro and nothing in the whole entire world would make me happier to see an army of kids on mountain bikes at tamarancho. Even if it meant i had to walk the entire loop. It would be the best day of my life. It would be the day that mountain biking came out of the shadows and became a legitimate thing. This vet would be stoked to tears to see such a thing and people like piranha are making that happen. The next camp is the weekend of the 2nd. I will be there helping kids with bike fits. I've been doing it since the first camp at tamo and even longer. You should check it out and see what a wonderful experience it is. It is better than any day out the bike.
    you go preacher man!!
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  67. #67
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    Just remember that someday, when yer old, fat & slow, the little dirt devils that were fumbling along the trails will be in their shredding prime on their 36" wheeled 11Lb rocket bikes. If you were nice to them now, they MIGHT just remember, pity you and pass where its wide. But cold vengeance awaits the impatient twerps that had no heart for the newbies on what should have been their best day ever.
    I like to bike.

  68. #68
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    Alot of folks don't want this Flow trail built, they think its the beginning of the end, whatever that means, and we'll have too much fun or whatever, but we need to make it happen.

    Love this comment. Cracks me up - "we don't want this (terribly and illegally built) trail dumbed down (even though we just proved we don't have the skill to ride the features on the new one)!" Always amazes me how after all the whining we hear, the tech alternate lines are free of wheel marks and the easy and flowy lines get all the action.

    and happy days to you Mr OTB jerk. Hope he's eating strained food to help fix his dirty mouth

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by testing1.2.3. View Post
    Point-Counterpoint

    I was not out in riding in Marin today.

    However, A bunch of my friends were out there today.

    Here's an alternate point of view from a rider who is an active member of local groups, a veteran rider who has paid his dues with beginner clinics, trail work days, etc.

    "I'll put down in the memory books, if I'm MTB coaching kids someday and running a "beginners seminar," Tamorancho is probably not the idea place to take, what, 50 kids? Nice to see them out, but I hope they were having more fun than some of their faces revealed."
    One more thing: Tamarancho is a Boy Scout Camp. Its primary mission is to give youth the opportunity to learn from and enjoy the outdoors in a safe place. That the BSA makes their camp available to the community to use is a HUGE favor and extremely rare.

    To use the camp's trails for teaching young people mountain biking skills is directly in line with their mission and IMHO takes priority over adults who should be grateful to have access to an amazing trail system on well-maintained lands. Mountain bikers in many areas of the country would pay far more than the minimal trail passes we pay to use Tamarancho.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    Alot of folks don't want this Flow trail built, they think its the beginning of the end, whatever that means, and we'll have too much fun or whatever, but we need to make it happen.

    Love this comment. Cracks me up - "we don't want this (terribly and illegally built) trail dumbed down (even though we just proved we don't have the skill to ride the features on the new one)!" Always amazes me how after all the whining we hear, the tech alternate lines are free of wheel marks and the easy and flowy lines get all the action.
    I was assuming the "folks that don't want this trail built" were not mountain bikers, but were just anti-bike, anti-trail people. Do I have that wrong?

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanskellner View Post
    So very well said.
    + about a million....

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Maybe out of county residents need to pay 4 times what locals pay, that would certainly help.
    Nah mang.

    Quote Originally Posted by normarin View Post
    I 2nd this.
    Nope. Bad idea. Here is why:

    Kevin Smallman has been operating the ST240 up at the flow trail on all of his days off. His efforts really are the only reason that this trail isn't taking 2 years to build. Jim can't get the sweco tractor into a lot of the spots that we were forced to place the trail. He brings a committed and knowledgeable crew with him every time. I don't see any guys from Marin show up with a 90k trail machine and 4 experienced trail workers. All of those dudes are from the East Bay.

    Jason Van Horn committed super early to the project. He rode up to the site with Brian and I to talk about the project in its infancy. He has IMBA cred and has brought in a lot of volunteers including Kevin (I think) and again this project would be about 10% of where it is at now without him. Also from out of Marin.

    Henry Miller drives out from the East Bay and has helped us build crib walls which is some of the hardest work I have ever done. Finding dead fall, splitting logs, carrying logs down uneven steep hillsides, stacking logs, using a gas powered drill to drill through 6 or seven redwood logs and finally driving a 5' metal spike through the whole mess with a sledgehammer. He is doing it right in my back yard, like a BOSS.

    If there was a tax on a-holes the world would be a better place. However a locals pass wouldn't really accomplish much. These are just 3 dudes that I can think of while sitting in my little hotel room in New Jersey. I'm sure as soon as I send this I will forget another super important member of the flow trail team that is from out of Marin.

    Now the guy that just tore down a small 2 bedroom house and placed a 4 mil ricky ticky mansion in its place. Yeah I will go on a locals only tirade. However I just want to shout out to all the cool people that don't even live in Marin and help make Marin a better place.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    Alot of folks don't want this Flow trail built, they think its the beginning of the end, whatever that means, and we'll have too much fun or whatever, but we need to make it happen.

    Love this comment. Cracks me up - "we don't want this (terribly and illegally built) trail dumbed down (even though we just proved we don't have the skill to ride the features on the new one)!" Always amazes me how after all the whining we hear, the tech alternate lines are free of wheel marks and the easy and flowy lines get all the action.

    and happy days to you Mr OTB jerk. Hope he's eating strained food to help fix his dirty mouth
    ?Que?

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Maybe out of county residents need to pay 4 times what locals pay, that would certainly help.
    Quote Originally Posted by normarin View Post
    I 2nd this.

    Really guys??? Ever been to Sedona? Bellingham? Paradise Royale? How'd you like that treatment reciprocated whenever you ride "out of county"

    That's some sour assed California style me first attitude right there.
    Sorry for the tone, what happened to the kid sucks, but that kinda comment really fires me up.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jl776 View Post
    Really??? I'm sure you wouldn't mind that treatment reciprocated whenever you ride "out of county"

    That's some sour attitude right there.
    Sorry for the tone, what happened to the kid sucks, but that kinda comment really fires me up.
    I'll retract it 100% as I wouldn't want to get charged in other places!

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