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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfreak View Post
    Not sure about everyone else but I look forward to riding to unwind from the week of work! If I can get a good flow on a trail great! if it's busy with people doing the same as me great! If younger riders are enjoying the trails even better! Basically life is to short to stress out on the trail so "Lance" should wipe the dirt off his face, apologize and walk home and sell his bike! IMO
    Good job SCfreak!!
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    You just got your local card.

    Still can't tell me what to do tho
    Aww. Thanks, Davey. And don't worry, I would never try...
    Quote Originally Posted by jbt56
    Are you a whiny Marin liberal, or a hand-wringing Berkeley liberal?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by testing1.2.3. View Post
    Point-Counterpoint

    I was not out in riding in Marin today.

    However, A bunch of my friends were out there today.

    Here's an alternate point of view from a rider who is an active member of local groups, a veteran rider who has paid his dues with beginner clinics, trail work days, etc.

    "I'll put down in the memory books, if I'm MTB coaching kids someday and running a "beginners seminar," Tamorancho is probably not the idea place to take, what, 50 kids? Nice to see them out, but I hope they were having more fun than some of their faces revealed."
    (sigh)

    OK.

    1. Tamarancho is one of the only places we can take these kids, unless we want to pay State Parks a crazy amount of money to rent out a campground. NorCal has held this camp at Tamarancho for 6 years now, and it's always worked really well for the kids and the camp.

    2. Like I said in the OP, most of the time, the kids weren't on the trail network - they were in the camp itself, where we set up skill-learning stations. We're not dumb, we know Tamarancho is a challenging place to ride, which is why when we did take the kids out on the trails, we took them on the easier parts of Goldman and B-17. No Serpentine, no Wagon Wheel, only the top of Broken Dam. I emphasized to my group of girls how impressive it was that they were riding the trails at Tamarancho, because none of the race courses they would be on would be half as hard. They loved the trails and felt pretty darn proud of themselves when they figured this out!

    3. I saw tons of smiles today. They're teenagers concentrating on learning something new - what would your facial expression be? I didn't talk to a single kid today who wasn't happy that they signed up. I mean... ok, whatever, dude. This is silly.

    These camps happen twice a year on private land. If people are going to get butthurt because for TWO weekends out of the year, they have to share a teeeny part of one trail system with a bunch of kids... they need to get over themselves. That's absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by jbt56
    Are you a whiny Marin liberal, or a hand-wringing Berkeley liberal?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piranha426 View Post
    (sigh)

    OK.

    1. Tamarancho is one of the only places we can take these kids, unless we want to pay State Parks a crazy amount of money to rent out a campground. NorCal has held this camp at Tamarancho for 6 years now, and it's always worked really well for the kids and the camp.

    2. Like I said in the OP, most of the time, the kids weren't on the trail network - they were in the camp itself, where we set up skill-learning stations. We're not dumb, we know Tamarancho is a challenging place to ride, which is why when we did take the kids out on the trails, we took them on the easier parts of Goldman and B-17. No Serpentine, no Wagon Wheel, only the top of Broken Dam. I emphasized to my group of girls how impressive it was that they were riding the trails at Tamarancho, because none of the race courses they would be on would be half as hard. They loved the trails and felt pretty darn proud of themselves when they figured this out!

    3. I saw tons of smiles today. They're teenagers concentrating on learning something new - what would your facial expression be? I didn't talk to a single kid today who wasn't happy that they signed up. I mean... ok, whatever, dude. This is silly.

    These camps happen twice a year on private land. If people are going to get butthurt because for TWO weekends out of the year, they have to share a teeeny part of one trail system with a bunch of kids... they need to get over themselves. That's absurd.
    Well said. I did a night ride here last week and came across a large group of hikers (~30) with at least a dozen dogs in the group and it was a real surprise. But rather than being pissy about it taking a good bit of time to slowly get around them, as I passed each of them I commented to them about what a beautiful night it was for a hike and the dogs must be loving it!

  5. #55
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    Unfortunately, there are people that prize their "flow" more than following the rules of the trail and common courtesy for children and obvious newbies on the trail.

    These are the people that will ride around you on singletrack as you are climbing, widening the trail, sometimes clipping you, trampling vegetation, etc...

    These are the people that won't automatically start pulling off the trail when they see a rider that has the right of way or a hiker/horse. They'll ride toward them in a form of "chicken" to see who gets off the trail first. They aren't following the rules, but forcing the other person to yield, but in their mind, since the "other person" moved off the trail, they rationalize it as "well the other guy decided to yield".

    This isn't uphill or downhill riders, it's just the common a-holes that can't drive a little further to a less popular trail, or realize that if they ride every weekend or every few days they WILL have plenty of time where they don't have to yield or can get a "flow" on. But they think every single trail is the last one they'll ride and they'll ride like a-holes because of it.

    There are more of these people than I think we'd like to admit, even on this site.

    Sorry about getting yelled at.
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  6. #56
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    Maybe out of county residents need to pay 4 times what locals pay, that would certainly help.

  7. #57
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    Side question. My asking has absolutely no bearing on the OP's situation as I think the d-bag got what he deserved...

    When on a hill on a singletrack, who does have the right of way? The trails I ride are luckily not very populated. I've only encountered the situation a couple times. Once I was walking a climb and got out of the way because it was easier for me to move then the guy still on his bike. And the other was the same but I was riding down and someone else was walking up.

    Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled pointing and laughing at the faceplant guy.
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  8. #58
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    Oh, and I do believe this calls for a meme or 2.

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  9. #59
    I'm really diggin it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by testing1.2.3. View Post
    Point-Counterpoint

    I was not out in riding in Marin today.

    However, A bunch of my friends were out there today.

    Here's an alternate point of view from a rider who is an active member of local groups, a veteran rider who has paid his dues with beginner clinics, trail work days, etc.

    "I'll put down in the memory books, if I'm MTB coaching kids someday and running a "beginners seminar," Tamorancho is probably not the idea place to take, what, 50 kids? Nice to see them out, but I hope they were having more fun than some of their faces revealed."
    I'm about to get for real right about now. The work these guys are doing at Nor Cal is the single most important important thing that can happen with mountain biking. Let me explain. I helped coach the first ever Nor Cal camp that was held in Tahoe and I immediately saw the light. All of these kids who were by definition goal oriented, talented and smart enough to get to go to the camp would come back to the Bay Area and become an important members of the community. If I could teach them the simple love of going for a bike ride in the woods they would want to do this later in life. If these kids came back to the Bay Area and were important members of the community and had a love for mountain biking they would change the Bay Area to a mountain biking mecca, instead of the closed off hell I grew up with. Whatever I accomplish, sit at a few meetings for bike parks or the Flow Trail work it will never ever amount to what the droves of kids that have gone through the Nor Cal camp will accomplish. However, it is happening even faster. Now the evil soccer mom in her SUV has a couple of kids who ride mountain bikes. Yeah dude soccer mom Betty doesn't yell at me for riding trails anymore. She thanks me for helping little Johnny at the last camp or ride. The whole community is getting involved now and soon the bike haters of the past will be dead, buried under six feet of dirt and they will be replaced by the army of little mountain bikers that the Nor Cal league has brought up.

    No matter what I did with my life it couldn't hold a candle to what these kids will accomplish. There are more of them every year and the single most important thing we can do is support them.

    So bring it on. You want to talk vet status? I have had a Tamarancho pass since they issued them. I went to Redwood High School. Class of '96. I rode De La's. I busted out on more single track then I care to admit. I got tickets. I have done trail work both legal and illegal. Pay your dues? I will show you some dues paying bro and nothing in the whole entire world would make me happier to see an ARMY of kids on mountain bikes at Tamarancho. Even if it meant I had to walk the entire loop. It would be the best day of my life. It would be the day that mountain biking came out of the shadows and became a legitimate thing. This vet would be stoked to tears to see such a thing and people like Piranha are making that happen. The next camp is the weekend of the 2nd. I will be there helping kids with bike fits. I've been doing it since the first camp at Tamo and even longer. You should check it out and see what a wonderful experience it is. It is better than any day out the bike.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I'm about to get for real right about now...
    PREACH!!!

    /waves arms in the air like she just don't care

    For more info, or to sign up to volunteer: NorCal
    Quote Originally Posted by jbt56
    Are you a whiny Marin liberal, or a hand-wringing Berkeley liberal?

  11. #61
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    Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I'm about to get for real right about now. The work these guys are doing at Nor Cal is the single most important important thing that can happen with mountain biking. Let me explain. I helped coach the first ever Nor Cal camp that was held in Tahoe and I immediately saw the light. All of these kids who were by definition goal oriented, talented and smart enough to get to go to the camp would come back to the Bay Area and become an important members of the community. If I could teach them the simple love of going for a bike ride in the woods they would want to do this later in life. If these kids came back to the Bay Area and were important members of the community and had a love for mountain biking they would change the Bay Area to a mountain biking mecca, instead of the closed off hell I grew up with. Whatever I accomplish, sit at a few meetings for bike parks or the Flow Trail work it will never ever amount to what the droves of kids that have gone through the Nor Cal camp will accomplish. However, it is happening even faster. Now the evil soccer mom in her SUV has a couple of kids who ride mountain bikes. Yeah dude soccer mom Betty doesn't yell at me for riding trails anymore. She thanks me for helping little Johnny at the last camp or ride. The whole community is getting involved now and soon the bike haters of the past will be dead, buried under six feet of dirt and they will be replaced by the army of little mountain bikers that the Nor Cal league has brought up.

    No matter what I did with my life it couldn't hold a candle to what these kids will accomplish. There are more of them every year and the single most important thing we can do is support them.

    So bring it on. You want to talk vet status? I have had a Tamarancho pass since they issued them. I went to Redwood High School. Class of '96. I rode De La's. I busted out on more single track then I care to admit. I got tickets. I have done trail work both legal and illegal. Pay your dues? I will show you some dues paying bro and nothing in the whole entire world would make me happier to see an ARMY of kids on mountain bikes at Tamarancho. Even if it meant I had to walk the entire loop. It would be the best day of my life. It would be the day that mountain biking came out of the shadows and became a legitimate thing. This vet would be stoked to tears to see such a thing and people like Piranha are making that happen. The next camp is the weekend of the 2nd. I will be there helping kids with bike fits. I've been doing it since the first camp at Tamo and even longer. You should check it out and see what a wonderful experience it is. It is better than any day out the bike.
    Keep the Flow going Davey.
    Wait,who did he tell you that?....

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I'm about to get for real right about now. The work these guys are doing at Nor Cal is the single most important important thing that can happen with mountain biking...
    So very well said.
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Maybe out of county residents need to pay 4 times what locals pay, that would certainly help.
    I 2nd this.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piranha426 View Post
    (sigh)

    OK.

    1. Tamarancho is one of the only places we can take these kids, unless we want to pay State Parks a crazy amount of money to rent out a campground. NorCal has held this camp at Tamarancho for 6 years now, and it's always worked really well for the kids and the camp.

    2. Like I said in the OP, most of the time, the kids weren't on the trail network - they were in the camp itself, where we set up skill-learning stations. We're not dumb, we know Tamarancho is a challenging place to ride, which is why when we did take the kids out on the trails, we took them on the easier parts of Goldman and B-17. No Serpentine, no Wagon Wheel, only the top of Broken Dam. I emphasized to my group of girls how impressive it was that they were riding the trails at Tamarancho, because none of the race courses they would be on would be half as hard. They loved the trails and felt pretty darn proud of themselves when they figured this out!

    3. I saw tons of smiles today. They're teenagers concentrating on learning something new - what would your facial expression be? I didn't talk to a single kid today who wasn't happy that they signed up. I mean... ok, whatever, dude. This is silly.

    These camps happen twice a year on private land. If people are going to get butthurt because for TWO weekends out of the year, they have to share a teeeny part of one trail system with a bunch of kids... they need to get over themselves. That's absurd.
    You don't owe that guy any sort of explanation. Thinking that keeping kids off the trails to learn how to MTB ride is just idiotic. Don't like them being there, find somewhere else to ride; however, the last time I checked most trail areas aren't rated as 18 years old or more only.

    Keep working with the kids and teaching them an understanding of the sport and the skills it takes.
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  15. #65
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    My take away from this is that there are lots of awesome folks out there on the trails. I got a lump in my throat reading Piranha's descriptions of these kids reaction to mountain biking. Awesome work!

    Sounds like the jerk should stick to riding his bike on Camino Alto, but I am so stoked to hear of all the great work and other supportive riders out there. We should always look after one another on the trails and foster a sense of community.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by davey simon View Post
    i'm about to get for real right about now. The work these guys are doing at nor cal is the single most important important thing that can happen with mountain biking. Let me explain. I helped coach the first ever nor cal camp that was held in tahoe and i immediately saw the light. All of these kids who were by definition goal oriented, talented and smart enough to get to go to the camp would come back to the bay area and become an important members of the community. If i could teach them the simple love of going for a bike ride in the woods they would want to do this later in life. If these kids came back to the bay area and were important members of the community and had a love for mountain biking they would change the bay area to a mountain biking mecca, instead of the closed off hell i grew up with. Whatever i accomplish, sit at a few meetings for bike parks or the flow trail work it will never ever amount to what the droves of kids that have gone through the nor cal camp will accomplish. However, it is happening even faster. Now the evil soccer mom in her suv has a couple of kids who ride mountain bikes. Yeah dude soccer mom betty doesn't yell at me for riding trails anymore. She thanks me for helping little johnny at the last camp or ride. The whole community is getting involved now and soon the bike haters of the past will be dead, buried under six feet of dirt and they will be replaced by the army of little mountain bikers that the nor cal league has brought up.

    No matter what i did with my life it couldn't hold a candle to what these kids will accomplish. There are more of them every year and the single most important thing we can do is support them.

    So bring it on. You want to talk vet status? I have had a tamarancho pass since they issued them. I went to redwood high school. Class of '96. I rode de la's. I busted out on more single track then i care to admit. I got tickets. I have done trail work both legal and illegal. Pay your dues? I will show you some dues paying bro and nothing in the whole entire world would make me happier to see an army of kids on mountain bikes at tamarancho. Even if it meant i had to walk the entire loop. It would be the best day of my life. It would be the day that mountain biking came out of the shadows and became a legitimate thing. This vet would be stoked to tears to see such a thing and people like piranha are making that happen. The next camp is the weekend of the 2nd. I will be there helping kids with bike fits. I've been doing it since the first camp at tamo and even longer. You should check it out and see what a wonderful experience it is. It is better than any day out the bike.
    you go preacher man!!
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  17. #67
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    Just remember that someday, when yer old, fat & slow, the little dirt devils that were fumbling along the trails will be in their shredding prime on their 36" wheeled 11Lb rocket bikes. If you were nice to them now, they MIGHT just remember, pity you and pass where its wide. But cold vengeance awaits the impatient twerps that had no heart for the newbies on what should have been their best day ever.
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  18. #68
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    Alot of folks don't want this Flow trail built, they think its the beginning of the end, whatever that means, and we'll have too much fun or whatever, but we need to make it happen.

    Love this comment. Cracks me up - "we don't want this (terribly and illegally built) trail dumbed down (even though we just proved we don't have the skill to ride the features on the new one)!" Always amazes me how after all the whining we hear, the tech alternate lines are free of wheel marks and the easy and flowy lines get all the action.

    and happy days to you Mr OTB jerk. Hope he's eating strained food to help fix his dirty mouth

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by testing1.2.3. View Post
    Point-Counterpoint

    I was not out in riding in Marin today.

    However, A bunch of my friends were out there today.

    Here's an alternate point of view from a rider who is an active member of local groups, a veteran rider who has paid his dues with beginner clinics, trail work days, etc.

    "I'll put down in the memory books, if I'm MTB coaching kids someday and running a "beginners seminar," Tamorancho is probably not the idea place to take, what, 50 kids? Nice to see them out, but I hope they were having more fun than some of their faces revealed."
    One more thing: Tamarancho is a Boy Scout Camp. Its primary mission is to give youth the opportunity to learn from and enjoy the outdoors in a safe place. That the BSA makes their camp available to the community to use is a HUGE favor and extremely rare.

    To use the camp's trails for teaching young people mountain biking skills is directly in line with their mission and IMHO takes priority over adults who should be grateful to have access to an amazing trail system on well-maintained lands. Mountain bikers in many areas of the country would pay far more than the minimal trail passes we pay to use Tamarancho.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    Alot of folks don't want this Flow trail built, they think its the beginning of the end, whatever that means, and we'll have too much fun or whatever, but we need to make it happen.

    Love this comment. Cracks me up - "we don't want this (terribly and illegally built) trail dumbed down (even though we just proved we don't have the skill to ride the features on the new one)!" Always amazes me how after all the whining we hear, the tech alternate lines are free of wheel marks and the easy and flowy lines get all the action.
    I was assuming the "folks that don't want this trail built" were not mountain bikers, but were just anti-bike, anti-trail people. Do I have that wrong?

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanskellner View Post
    So very well said.
    + about a million....

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Maybe out of county residents need to pay 4 times what locals pay, that would certainly help.
    Nah mang.

    Quote Originally Posted by normarin View Post
    I 2nd this.
    Nope. Bad idea. Here is why:

    Kevin Smallman has been operating the ST240 up at the flow trail on all of his days off. His efforts really are the only reason that this trail isn't taking 2 years to build. Jim can't get the sweco tractor into a lot of the spots that we were forced to place the trail. He brings a committed and knowledgeable crew with him every time. I don't see any guys from Marin show up with a 90k trail machine and 4 experienced trail workers. All of those dudes are from the East Bay.

    Jason Van Horn committed super early to the project. He rode up to the site with Brian and I to talk about the project in its infancy. He has IMBA cred and has brought in a lot of volunteers including Kevin (I think) and again this project would be about 10% of where it is at now without him. Also from out of Marin.

    Henry Miller drives out from the East Bay and has helped us build crib walls which is some of the hardest work I have ever done. Finding dead fall, splitting logs, carrying logs down uneven steep hillsides, stacking logs, using a gas powered drill to drill through 6 or seven redwood logs and finally driving a 5' metal spike through the whole mess with a sledgehammer. He is doing it right in my back yard, like a BOSS.

    If there was a tax on a-holes the world would be a better place. However a locals pass wouldn't really accomplish much. These are just 3 dudes that I can think of while sitting in my little hotel room in New Jersey. I'm sure as soon as I send this I will forget another super important member of the flow trail team that is from out of Marin.

    Now the guy that just tore down a small 2 bedroom house and placed a 4 mil ricky ticky mansion in its place. Yeah I will go on a locals only tirade. However I just want to shout out to all the cool people that don't even live in Marin and help make Marin a better place.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    Alot of folks don't want this Flow trail built, they think its the beginning of the end, whatever that means, and we'll have too much fun or whatever, but we need to make it happen.

    Love this comment. Cracks me up - "we don't want this (terribly and illegally built) trail dumbed down (even though we just proved we don't have the skill to ride the features on the new one)!" Always amazes me how after all the whining we hear, the tech alternate lines are free of wheel marks and the easy and flowy lines get all the action.

    and happy days to you Mr OTB jerk. Hope he's eating strained food to help fix his dirty mouth
    ?Que?

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Maybe out of county residents need to pay 4 times what locals pay, that would certainly help.
    Quote Originally Posted by normarin View Post
    I 2nd this.

    Really guys??? Ever been to Sedona? Bellingham? Paradise Royale? How'd you like that treatment reciprocated whenever you ride "out of county"

    That's some sour assed California style me first attitude right there.
    Sorry for the tone, what happened to the kid sucks, but that kinda comment really fires me up.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jl776 View Post
    Really??? I'm sure you wouldn't mind that treatment reciprocated whenever you ride "out of county"

    That's some sour attitude right there.
    Sorry for the tone, what happened to the kid sucks, but that kinda comment really fires me up.
    I'll retract it 100% as I wouldn't want to get charged in other places!

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