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  1. #1
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    Granite Bay Extended Dance Loop

    For those that enjoy going off the beaten path, a reminder that with the lake so low, you can extend your Granite Bay ride a bit by heading north of Beeks Bight on the 100% legal "North Fork Ditch" Trail, which can be taken all the way to Horseshoe Bar (4 miles one way), should you feel so inclined.

    After a bit more rain, it will likely be better (firmer) than it is currently, as much of it is on sandy terrain. It's not for everyone, but for the curious, it's worth a look. If more people would ride it regularly, it would pack down nicely. Add a mile or two to your routine and let's see how it rides with more bike use.



    Some of it is really nice trail:


    A lot of it is sandy, but rideable... spin to win:

  2. #2
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    Ya that's a fun winter trail.

  3. #3
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    Apparently, the equestrians think it is an equestrian only trail. A few weeks ago I was on the trial and I heard a horse galloping behind me so I graciously pulled to the side and said howdy. He immediately told me I was riding a horse only trail. I told him this trail is underwater most of the year and the horse only trail is a little further inland. He stated he has been riding the trail for 25 years and this was the first time he heard someone disagree with him. I told him I have been riding the trail for thirty five years and never had an issue. I suggested to him that we could both ride back and talk to a ranger and he declined and rode off.

  4. #4
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    I was riding that trail for the first time (as well as the rest of Granite) and worried about the same thing. I didn't see anyone else, so no problems. The trails seemed to be in great condition.

  5. #5
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    Some of the equestrian riders do think all the trails out there belong to them. I think they just try to tell everyone these are for equestrians only and see if they can get away with it. Majority of the time I encounter horses it's very friendly but there are a few that just can't seem to share....

  6. #6
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    I was planning on riding GB tomorrow. I will have to do a little exploring and see if I can locate/ride this trail. Thanks for the info.

  7. #7
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    Does this trail run out of the parking lot at the end of the road in the Beek's Bight area? Is it marked in any way? Trail marking in Folsom Lake/Granite Bay sucks.
    "You're messing with my zen thing, man!"

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    Just go north out of the north end of the parking lot and traverse around the lake, you can't miss it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripower View Post
    Apparently, the equestrians think it is an equestrian only trail. A few weeks ago I was on the trial and I heard a horse galloping behind me so I graciously pulled to the side and said howdy. He immediately told me I was riding a horse only trail. I told him this trail is underwater most of the year and the horse only trail is a little further inland. He stated he has been riding the trail for 25 years and this was the first time he heard someone disagree with him. I told him I have been riding the trail for thirty five years and never had an issue. I suggested to him that we could both ride back and talk to a ranger and he declined and rode off.
    Great story!

    Even the crazy horse ladies that run the anti-bike "Park Watch Report" publish that it is multi-use: Park Watch Report -=- Article Folsom Lake SRA Beach Trail from Sterling Pointe to Beeks is passable

    Since the ditch trail seems like a much nicer, softer, scenic, and safer trail for horses, it would be awesome if the Pioneer Express Trail were opened to bicycle use the months that the ditch trail is usable for horses... although Pioneer could use some serious re-routing due to 4' deep troughs from horse traffic and erosion.

  10. #10
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    Thanks EB. I'm looking at Google maps, and can see it (and other trails). Does it get up into the trees at all or is it all along the shoreline?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47 View Post
    Thanks EB. I'm looking at Google maps, and can see it (and other trails). Does it get up into the trees at all or is it all along the shoreline?
    The ditch trail is along the shore line nothing in the trees.

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    I live very near GB, and have been curious about this trail as well.....

    I called the rangers at Folsom SRA.
    Talked with John Stevens.

    He said that the trail in question is NOT bike legal, but that the park service is *thinking* about it.

    So....ride it at your own risk

  13. #13
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    Really, for petesake it's under water much of the year.....what a crock.... so I can ride next to the trail on shore and be legal? Now that makes complete sense. No trail should be closed to anyone....

    Seems to me that typical gov't doesn't know from on end to the other what is or isn't legal....shocker. I've asked rangers out there and said other than Pioneer your good to go.

  14. #14
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    I'll bet a beer the ranger is referring to the Pioneer Express trail, and not the ditch trail.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    I'll bet a beer the ranger is referring to the Pioneer Express trail, and not the ditch trail.
    Very possible nonetheless if they can't keep things straight how are we?

  16. #16
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    I'd venture to say many mt. bikers have far better knowledge of our trail system than many rangers. We use them, probably more than anyone. They manage them, and they have a lot more to deal with than just trails. I'll bet a 2nd beer that the ranger in question doesn't know there is a shoreline trail that is accessible when the lake is low.

  17. #17
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    Okay....trail status for the Ditch Trail is ambiguous, as are a lot of the trails out in the Folsom Lake area. Signage is almost non-existent in most areas, such as Beeks Bight, a lot of Twin Rocks, and the stuff lower down near Beal's Point.

    I understand the Pioneer Express Trail is off-limits to bikes. It is posted a bit haphazard, but for the most part I understand the section between Horseshoe Bar Road and The Douglas park entrance is for the horsey folk. What I do not know is what part of the trails from Mooney Ridge to Beal's Point are part of the Pioneer Express Trail and if so are they off limits to bikes. I have ridden them, and see bikes on them all the time. But there is no signage that I know of. At the end of the trail, right at the entrance for Beal's Point from Auburn-Folsom Road where the trail exits the trees through the wood rail fencing, there is one of those flexible plastic strip-style signposts with some sort of "Western States" or "Pioneer Express" trail stickers on it (Illegible due to weathering) but no "Anti-Bike" slash/circle sticker telling me bikes are not allowed.

    I want to know if I can ride all those trails that run from Cavitt School, over the first hill (I call it Horsemeat Hill due to the presence of the boarded horses in the corral there), down along the wing-dam, over the little bridge right next to Auburn-Folsom Road, then up the second hill (In which the Pioneer Express historical marker is on one side of near the paved bike path - so I call this Pioneer Express Hill), and down past the Beal's campground to the park entrance.

    The green is known bike-okay trail/road, the yellow is what I don't know about:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Granite Bay Extended Dance Loop-horsemeat-hill.jpg  

    Granite Bay Extended Dance Loop-between.jpg  

    Granite Bay Extended Dance Loop-pioneer-express.jpg  

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    Bokchoi:

    I live next to the Twin Rocks entrance to GB and ride those yellow trails all the time. I pass horses, runners, walkers, etc and no one has ever contested my right to be there. I have had a couple of issues up toward the Los Lagos Eq Center but nothing I'd consider a run-in and the trails in that area (except for one) are void of "no bike" markers. I have been told by a Ranger the trail that started this thread is ok for bikes but obviously not the Pioneer Express trail above it in the trees.

    Happy riding and take some carrots with you as it eases the pain when you encounter horses.

  19. #19
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    FWIW, I have been accosted by equestrians while riding one of the yellow trails on BCCowboys first pic. Very irate older woman and a middle aged woman.
    "You're not supposed to be out here!! This is a horse only trail!!"
    My reply was a "Whatever!" And then I rode around them.


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  20. #20
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    Any dirt from Hazel Bridge on the north side of Lake Natoma to Beals Point is technically not legal for bikes, including the trail through the campground at Beals Point. Directly across the road from the campground trail (entrance to Beals), the trail is bike legal heading north... essentially all the yellow markings on your maps. Some of those trails used to not be legal, but when the levees were being raised, State Parks re-routed and added some trail down low for all users to bypass the construction, and they have remained multi-use since. Once in Granite Bay State Park, the Pioneer Express Trail is mostly west of the main road in the park and off limits to bikes all the way north to Auburn.

    For the record, there are 58 miles of singletrack in the Folsom Lake SRA (which includes Lake Natoma but not SFART). Mountain bikers have legal access to 29 of those miles. Horses have legal access to 49 of those miles.

    For what it's worth, I see things changing once the General Plan/Trail Plan get finalized and moving forward. This is a comment by Jim Micheaels, the senior dude in our district, regarding a study on trail use conflict that was conducted all over the country last summer:

    "For Folsom Lake SRA, the District believes part of the long term solutions include developing more trail opportunities for all users – but particularly mountain bikes - either through development of new trails or changes in use; and addressing the design and conditions inadequacies of the current trail system through repairs, re-routes and improved maintenance. Given the current intensity of use and the seemingly endless latent demand for trail use – it could be that some limitations on use, such as further reduction in special events involving trails may be needed to help reduce use conflicts. Perhaps our trails are exceeding their carrying capacity – both physically and socially."

    I also read this to mean there might be less races allowed at Granite Bay in the future...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    I also read this to mean there might be less races allowed at Granite Bay in the future...
    I also see fewer races happening in the future.
    But I'm more concerned about the comments about restricting use. I read that as alternate day schedules or additional trail restrictions. Maybe finally shutting down night riding for real.


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    FWIW, I have been accosted by equestrians while riding one of the yellow trails on BCCowboys first pic. Very irate older woman and a middle aged woman.
    "You're not supposed to be out here!! This is a horse only trail!!"
    Haha... haters are gonna hate.

    This just reminded me that a couple weeks ago, we were approaching "Horsemeat Hill" and I noticed a horse not in the corral:


    We stopped to see what was up. The horse's back legs were bleeding pretty good, but overall, she was mellow/tame. We just kind of hung out with her while one of the guys went down the hill to look for help:


    A couple women from the Folsom Lake Trail Patrol came up to rescue... although they weren't sure if it was even one of their horses. Sadly, people that can no longer afford Mr.Ed often times dump them. The FLTP gals were super thankful, but wouldn't give me a commemorative FLTP patch

  23. #23
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    You are the quenescentual trail steward! That was one of the cool parts of our ride though
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  24. #24
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    Thanks mtbne1, Empty_Beer, and Brewtality! Great info, now I can ride guilt free in the area. Love the horse pics you took on Horsemeat Hill.
    "You're messing with my zen thing, man!"

  25. #25
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    This thread and some stuff on FaceBook made me do a little research.
    I found THIS page that claims 80 miles of dirt trails in Folsom Lake SRA.
    I can not find it now, but a few years ago I read some General Plan articles that claimed 110 miles of dirt trails in Folsom Lake SRA.
    It would be an interesting excersize tolist everything that is mtn bike legal. FWIW, I can say that only the Salmon Falls/Darrington Trail is off limits to horses. AFAIK, that is the only stretch of trail that is off limits to horses. They have access to the rest of the 80 - 110 miles of trail.
    What do we have access to?
    Granite Bay Loop + Dotons Point Trail, 5-6 miles.
    Trail between Beals Point entrance and fireroad near Cavitt, 1 mile.
    Southside of Natomas Loop, 5 miles (actually I think its more like 3.5m).
    Dike 8 trail, not sure, 2-3 miles?
    Sweetwater Trail, not sure, 3 miles?
    Salmon Falls/Darrington Trail, 5 miles?
    North Fork Ditch Trail, 3 miles.

    I count 26 miles. Out of 80 miles (according to State Parks).
    We get 32% of the trails. I would love to get some data on what percentage of trail users are mtn bikers, equestrians, hikers, etc.. Also interesting to look at would be actual miles of trail used by each user group. I know that when I go for a ride, it is no less than 20 miles. I seriously doubt the average equestrians, hikers or trail runners are using that many miles of trail.
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  26. #26
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    This is the document I've gone off of.... page ii-41

    General Plan / Existing Conditions

    They count the 16 miles of paved "trail" around Lake Natoma in their 94 miles of trail.

    I'm soooo bored with the 29 miles we legally have

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    Well maybe since State Parks found $54,000,000 under the mattress, maybe we will get some new local trails built or legal access to existing ones someday...

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    that 54 million is mostly owed to moto riders who paid green sticker OHV fees to the DMV. But hey, lets just raise taxes!
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    So of the 94 miles they say are are trails withing the FSRA only 48 miles (roughly 50%) are open to us. I'd love to hear the equestrian folks if the tables were turned.....

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    Fantastic Conditions

    Rode the ditch trail this afternoon. The rain made the conditions excellent. Should be pleasantly ridable for most bikes. Of course, it is always ridable on Fat Bastard
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Granite Bay Extended Dance Loop-ditch-witch.jpg  


  31. #31
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    I was wishing I still had my pugs when I was there last weekend!

  32. #32
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    North Fork Ditch Beach Trail is Legal for MTB's

    "The most popular is the North Fork Ditch Beach Trail at Folsom Lake SRA. This is a multi-use trail, but mt. bikers should be aware that the deeper sand can be hard going."

    Park Watch Report -=- Article Rain drenches trails in Nevada and Placer Counties

    I am going to ride it again today. Great trail and fantastic views.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripower View Post
    Rode the ditch trail this afternoon. The rain made the conditions excellent. Should be pleasantly ridable for most bikes. Of course, it is always ridable on Fat Bastard
    Sweet Tri power

  34. #34
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    Interesting read

    Quote Originally Posted by Tripower View Post
    "The most popular is the North Fork Ditch Beach Trail at Folsom Lake SRA. This is a multi-use trail, but mt. bikers should be aware that the deeper sand can be hard going."

    Park Watch Report -=- Article Rain drenches trails in Nevada and Placer Counties

    I am going to ride it again today. Great trail and fantastic views.
    Thanks for the info.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  35. #35
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    BUMP!

    Hey just bumping to this up to the top. For some reason, I had never ridden the North Fork Ditch Trail until last night. I was out for a cruisy spin on the SS and was just going to stick to the normal GB loop, but while chilling in the Beek's Bight parking area, i noticed lupines along the shoreline to the north and saw the trail leading to it, so I thought "aha! I have time to cruise up the ditch trail for just a bit and check it out".

    I am glad I did!
    Granite Bay Extended Dance Loop-lupines-1.jpg
    Granite Bay Extended Dance Loop-lupines-2.jpg

    The trail hugs the shoreline and as you go into and out of each successive little cove, you get a whole new view of a heaping bunch of lupines. It's freaking beautiful.

    Trail is sandy, but surprisingly rideable even with a rigid SS with a 35x15 gear so you don't even have to 'spin to win'...there's sand, but there's a firmness just underneath that makes it rideable.

    I didn't go all the way to Horseshoe Bar Rd as I was short on time, so just went up and back a bit. Here's my Strava, the trails is the line that goes out and back from the Beek's Bight lot.
    Bike Ride Profile | Cruisy SS MTB (Except that oonnnnne spot) :-) near Folsom | Times and Records | Strava

    Also, on the way back I ran into some friendly equestrians. We saw each other coming at each other a fair way's away and they waved me right through. Out of courtesy, I rode down off the trail a bit because it was good ground and I figured that way neither of us is really inconvenienced. We exchanged some hellos and some 'wow's these lupines are aweome". I think there were 3 of them. 2 girls, 1 guy. As we passed, the guy asked "how are you getting out of here?". And I replied, "oh just following the ditch back to Beek's". And he's like "oh ok, have a good ride!". It seemed he was just making sure that I wasn't going to go onto the Pioneer Express (which I didn't). Anyway, overall a good encounter. Go check them lupines out!
    Last edited by Tyrone Shoelaces; 01-31-2016 at 05:55 PM.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    BUMP!

    Hey just bumping to this up to the top. For some reason, I had never ridden the North Fork Ditch Trail until last night. I was out for a cruisy spin on the SS and was just going to stick to the normal GB loop, but while chilling in the Beek's Bight parking area, i noticed lupines along the shoreline to the north and saw the trail leading to it, so I thought "aha! I have time to cruise up the ditch trail for just a bit and check it out".

    I am glad I did!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The trail hugs the shoreline and as you go into and out of each successive little cove, you get a whole new view of a heaping bunch of lupines. It's freaking beautiful.

    Trail is sandy, but surprisingly rideable even with a rigid SS with a 35x15 gear so you don't even have to 'spin to win'...there's sand, but there's a firmness just underneath that makes it rideable.

    I didn't go all the way to Horseshoe Bar Rd as I was short on time, so just went up and back a bit. Here's my Strava, the trails is the line that goes out and back from the Beek's Bight lot.
    Bike Ride Profile | Cruisy SS MTB (Except that oonnnnne spot) :-) near Folsom | Times and Records | Strava

    Also, on the way back I ran into some friendly equestrians. We saw each other coming at each other a fair way's away and they waved me right through. Out of courtesy, I rode down off the trail a bit because it was good ground and I figured that way neither of us is really inconvenienced. We exchanged some hellos and some 'wow's these lupines are aweome". I think there were 3 of them. 2 girls, 1 guy. As we passed, the guy asked "how are you getting out of here?". And I replied, "oh just following the ditch back to Beek's". And he's like "oh ok, have a good ride!". It seemed he was just making sure that I wasn't going to go onto the Pioneer Express (which I didn't). Anyway, overall a good encounter. Go check them lupines out!
    I rode it earlier today and snapped a few photos when I rode it two weeks ago.

    Granite Bay Extended Dance Loop-venatan-1.jpgGranite Bay Extended Dance Loop-ventana-2.jpgGranite Bay Extended Dance Loop-ventana-3.jpg

  37. #37
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    GGreat shots!
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  38. #38
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    Loopy for Lupines!
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    Did this trail for the first time this morning with the gf. Definitely been missing out, its a nice extension to the standard loop and the views are nice.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Granite Bay Extended Dance Loop-20140506_095154-969338096.jpg  


  40. #40
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    Lupines are amazing right now. Enjoyed it this past weekend, Empty thanks for the intel on this!

    Said "Ditch"


    Lupines and rolling terrain...


    The lake is coming up very slowly, made for a nice back ground...
    Last edited by Ciclistagonzo; 01-31-2016 at 09:41 PM.
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  41. #41
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    SOooo.....digging up this older, ongoing thread about the North Fork Ditch Trail in Granite Bay.

    I've been riding this a bunch on my cross bike this winter as the rains have it packed down (relative term, it still gets pretty chewed up from horse hooves), but I figure it's a trail that is probably the most 'rideable' in our area given the wet conditions since it's a trail that's normally underwater anyways...thus, there really isn't any way that I will 'damage' the trail by riding it when the rest of our trails around here are sloppy.

    Anywho...today, I rode it in a North to South Direction starting from Horseshoe Bar Rd. I was on a my cross bike, so made a mixed terrain route by pedaling up Folsom-Auburn Rd, made a right onto Horseshoe Bar Rd, and then returned back via the Ditch Trail.
    https://www.strava.com/activities/483122305

    The trail was in really good shape. Bumpy sure, with a few puddles and muddy bits here and there, but nothing that a cross bike with tubeless 40c tires couldn't just carve right through or float right over. I saw a few horses on the trail and they were super cool. I came up from behind on a couple and they saw me over their shoulders and moved out of the way as I was riding faster than them. We chit-chatted a bit, wished each other good days and then went on our seperate ways...pretty normal stuff.

    But then near the end of the trail, pretty close to its terminus at Beek's Bight in GB proper, I came across a hiker/runner lady going the same direction that I was. I came upon her on a straightaway and I saw her from at least 30 yards out. I called out with a nice "Hey how's it going? Coming up behind you" and smiled and she looked over her shoulder. As I got closer (less than 10 feet now) I said, "Nice day eh? I called out from back there because I didn't want to startle you if I was any closer". Making eye contact and smiling as I talked.

    Then with that she responds very angrily, "YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE!".

    "I'm sorry, excuse me? I have every right to be here". (said this nicely, but immediately in my head knew the type I was dealing with and where this was going to go).

    "No you can't. This trail is hiker and equestrian only. NO BIKES".

    I came to a stop. "No you're mistaken. This is the North Fork Ditch Trail...and it is a shared trail. No restrictions for anyone. I know the Pioneer Express Trail just up there "....I said this and motioned with my hand just up hill beyond the trees where the Pioneer sits..."is illegal for bikes, which is why I am riding down here on the Ditch Trail. I'm allowed to be here".

    "NO YOU ARE NOT!", she shouted. "Both the Pioneer and this trail are not suitable for bikes. You people go to fast and are a hazard. I was nearly KILLED while riding my horse yesterday by a biker."

    She was now in my face, and talking very loudly, so naturally I'm getting agitated

    "YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE HERE. WHAT IS YOUR NAME i'M REPORTING YOU!!".

    "My name is XXX, what's yours? Go head and report me. To who? State Parks? They are going to tell you that it's ok for me to ride here. This is a SHARED trail. And if you didn't explode in my face just now there would be no conflict here at all. The conflict is YOU. The bikes are not the conflict...it is you and your attitude."....I said this as I was pedaling away as I was done with her.

    As I pedaled away I gave one last "Have a nice day eh!"

    And she shouts ahead at me "I hope you have ROTTEN DAY!".

    That last one literally made me laugh out loud.

    Quite the experience. I paraphrased most of that and left some parts out because I just can't remember everything we said to each other...but it was pretty crazy. Never really had an experience like that. It might be one thing if I came flying around a corner or something and started her, but the way it transpired, being as nice as pie to her and calling out from way behind, smiling, chatting...and then to verbally get assaulted makes my blood boil.

    Anyway, go ride the North Fork Ditch Trail. And don't let anyone tell you that you don't belong there.

    I haven't made a Strava segment in a long time, but made this one after my ride. Like the title of it?
    https://www.strava.com/segments/11302602?filter=overall

  42. #42
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    Is your name Triple X because of how filthy you are on a bike

  43. #43
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    Report it to Park Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    Never really had an experience like that.
    ORLY? So soon we forget... Bitter-Sweetwater

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    Did you tell them your name is Chad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    SOooo.....digging up this older, ongoing thread about the North Fork Ditch Trail in Granite Bay.

    I've been riding this a bunch on my cross bike this winter as the rains have it packed down (relative term, it still gets pretty chewed up from horse hooves), but I figure it's a trail that is probably the most 'rideable' in our area given the wet conditions since it's a trail that's normally underwater anyways...thus, there really isn't any way that I will 'damage' the trail by riding it when the rest of our trails around here are sloppy.

    Anywho...today, I rode it in a North to South Direction starting from Horseshoe Bar Rd. I was on a my cross bike, so made a mixed terrain route by pedaling up Folsom-Auburn Rd, made a right onto Horseshoe Bar Rd, and then returned back via the Ditch Trail.
    https://www.strava.com/activities/483122305

    The trail was in really good shape. Bumpy sure, with a few puddles and muddy bits here and there, but nothing that a cross bike with tubeless 40c tires couldn't just carve right through or float right over. I saw a few horses on the trail and they were super cool. I came up from behind on a couple and they saw me over their shoulders and moved out of the way as I was riding faster than them. We chit-chatted a bit, wished each other good days and then went on our seperate ways...pretty normal stuff.

    But then near the end of the trail, pretty close to its terminus at Beek's Bight in GB proper, I came across a hiker/runner lady going the same direction that I was. I came upon her on a straightaway and I saw her from at least 30 yards out. I called out with a nice "Hey how's it going? Coming up behind you" and smiled and she looked over her shoulder. As I got closer (less than 10 feet now) I said, "Nice day eh? I called out from back there because I didn't want to startle you if I was any closer". Making eye contact and smiling as I talked.

    Then with that she responds very angrily, "YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE!".

    "I'm sorry, excuse me? I have every right to be here". (said this nicely, but immediately in my head knew the type I was dealing with and where this was going to go).

    "No you can't. This trail is hiker and equestrian only. NO BIKES".

    I came to a stop. "No you're mistaken. This is the North Fork Ditch Trail...and it is a shared trail. No restrictions for anyone. I know the Pioneer Express Trail just up there "....I said this and motioned with my hand just up hill beyond the trees where the Pioneer sits..."is illegal for bikes, which is why I am riding down here on the Ditch Trail. I'm allowed to be here".

    "NO YOU ARE NOT!", she shouted. "Both the Pioneer and this trail are not suitable for bikes. You people go to fast and are a hazard. I was nearly KILLED while riding my horse yesterday by a biker."

    She was now in my face, and talking very loudly, so naturally I'm getting agitated

    "YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE HERE. WHAT IS YOUR NAME i'M REPORTING YOU!!".

    "My name is XXX, what's yours? Go head and report me. To who? State Parks? They are going to tell you that it's ok for me to ride here. This is a SHARED trail. And if you didn't explode in my face just now there would be no conflict here at all. The conflict is YOU. The bikes are not the conflict...it is you and your attitude."....I said this as I was pedaling away as I was done with her.

    As I pedaled away I gave one last "Have a nice day eh!"

    And she shouts ahead at me "I hope you have ROTTEN DAY!".

    That last one literally made me laugh out loud.

    Quite the experience. I paraphrased most of that and left some parts out because I just can't remember everything we said to each other...but it was pretty crazy. Never really had an experience like that. It might be one thing if I came flying around a corner or something and started her, but the way it transpired, being as nice as pie to her and calling out from way behind, smiling, chatting...and then to verbally get assaulted makes my blood boil.

    Anyway, go ride the North Fork Ditch Trail. And don't let anyone tell you that you don't belong there.

    I haven't made a Strava segment in a long time, but made this one after my ride. Like the title of it?
    https://www.strava.com/segments/11302602?filter=overall

  45. #45
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    Hey thanks for the strava route!, gonna check it out next time

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    The drop in from Horseshoe bar is ILLEGAL so, if confronted they have a legitimate argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wakejunky View Post
    The drop in from Horseshoe bar is ILLEGAL so, if confronted they have a legitimate argument.
    Are you talking about the 30 yards he was officially on the PXP, where it is wide enough to drive a car on it?

  48. #48
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    There is no legitimate way to drop in without being on something illegal. You have to cross Pioneer express or ride on Pioneer express to get in from horseshoe bar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wakejunky View Post
    There is no legitimate way to drop in without being on something illegal. You have to cross Pioneer express or ride on Pioneer express to get in from horseshoe bar.
    How is it illegal to cross PE?
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

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    Quote Originally Posted by wakejunky View Post
    There is no legitimate way to drop in without being on something illegal. You have to cross Pioneer express or ride on Pioneer express to get in from horseshoe bar.
    If that is the case, then I have learned something.... At the terminus of Horseshoe Bar Rd. is a gate with an opening on the right side. I rode right through that, and then I was kind of in a wide open paved (or might have been gravel...can't remember) wide circular area. I figured that the Pioneer seemed to cross this area as I saw on the far left side of the clearing was a trailhead with a no bike sign...I didn't go that way.....I went straight.... straight across this clearing and over to some boulders on the far side and dismounted my bike and walked through them and took a couple steps down a little ledgy area and then onto the end of the North Fork Ditch Trail where I remounted my bike. I know this is the very end of the Ditch Trail because I have followed it to this point many times in the past, then turned around. I guess if I cross the Pioneer here I was on it for about 5 seconds?

    Regardless of all of that, the encounter with this hiker was at the FAR other end of the trail. Almost right near the Beek's Bight parking lot in fact. After our discussion, I pedaled into Beek's after about 1 minute of pedaling.

  51. #51
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    Folsom Lake SRA has trail maps and the north fork ditch trail is a nonsystem trail so no restrictions. I've ridden it a number of times.

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    Ron:

    I was on the Ditch Trail a few weeks ago and stopped briefly to talk to the mounted patrol and we had a good conversation about the lake level, etc. If I had been on an illegal trail they would have nailed me on the spot for that.

    The fact is the Ditch Trail is undesignated and therefore not illegal for bikes. The trail generally has great sight-lines and pullouts and is totally appropriate for multi-use.

    I have had one bad horse encounter in the past year and it was on the Ditch Trail. The trail gets very little bike use compared to others around the lake so I suppose the horse/hiker crowd feels entitled that it is theirs only.

    As a sidebar the Ditch Trail is amazingly great all year on a fat bike unless the lake is topped out which it could be in a few months. Go enjoy it!
    Team Kinetic Cycles/Fat Bikes Rule!

  53. #53
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    Wow there seems to be more aggressive trail user issues up there then down in Marin.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Wow there seems to be more aggressive trail user issues up there then down in Marin.
    This incident is a rarity. I ride a LOT...spend a ton of time on the trails...and over the years can still count the number of encounters like with just two fingers.

    mtbne1: agreed

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Wow there seems to be more aggressive trail user issues up there then down in Marin.
    I disagree. Like Ron said, crazy incidents like this are few and far between. But some of the anti-bike activists in our area definitely moved here from various places in the Bay Area... and bought their hate and tactics with them. What's funny is the Queen "B" anti-bike activist up here seems to be trying to get the Marin Horse Council to come up here for a "Tails and Trails" event to teach mt. bikers how to respect horses, while completely ignoring all the clinics and good things the super friendly and open minded equestrians around here are already doing. Its truly amazing how she want to turn this area into Marin!

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbne1 View Post
    If I had been on an illegal trail they would have nailed me on the spot for that.
    FLTP can only inform you that you're where you're not supposed to be, and ask you to exit ASAP. They are not LEOs and have no power other than calling in Rangers. But some of them have attitudes and agendas too.

    I shared Ron's story with my equestrian friend, who I rode that trail with once when she wanted to acclimate her horse to bikes better. She shared this story about another time she rode her horse with a mt. bike friend on it:

    "I was on the trail last summer with my friend on a mtn bike and got into words with the horse park patrol... That bikes could not be on that trail (I was on my horse). "REALLY!" I told them this trail belongs to the water and why the heck (hell) are they not patrolling the trail that the bikes are really not allowed on!!!!??"

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    I disagree. Like Ron said, crazy incidents like this are few and far between. But some of the anti-bike activists in our area definitely moved here from various places in the Bay Area... and bought their hate and tactics with them. What's funny is the Queen "B" anti-bike activist up here seems to be trying to get the Marin Horse Council to come up here for a "Tails and Trails" event to teach mt. bikers how to respect horses, while completely ignoring all the clinics and good things the super friendly and open minded equestrians around here are already doing. Its truly amazing how she want to turn this area into Marin!


    FLTP can only inform you that you're where you're not supposed to be, and ask you to exit ASAP. They are not LEOs and have no power other than calling in Rangers. But some of them have attitudes and agendas too.

    I shared Ron's story with my equestrian friend, who I rode that trail with once when she wanted to acclimate her horse to bikes better. She shared this story about another time she rode her horse with a mt. bike friend on it:

    "I was on the trail last summer with my friend on a mtn bike and got into words with the horse park patrol... That bikes could not be on that trail (I was on my horse). "REALLY!" I told them this trail belongs to the water and why the heck (hell) are they not patrolling the trail that the bikes are really not allowed on!!!!??"
    I was saying that partly in jest, Mr B, I should've included . Maybe I'm thinking about Granite Bay "proper" that there was a lot of rude/physical altercations with other trail users (i.e. runners/hikers) on those trails over the past. I don't recall any problems on our FLEA ride in fact I think we won over some of the equestrians(temporary as it may have been....) with our loose horse rescue!!
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  57. #57
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    I forgot about that loose horse!

    Like a lot of places, we have our crazies and our haters here, but they are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the trail user community at large. Two of the crazies are runners (Kathy in GB and the guy that assaulted some riders by Dike 8), one of the haters is/was a high school running coach, and then about 12 super hateful equestrians who have learned well from their friends in Marin (a la Davey's other thread). They certainly get other equestrians worked up, but then we also have our own arsehats who give others anecdotal reasons to support the haters' propaganda.

  58. #58
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    Following this thread with interest.

    Thanks for posting that route. I want to hit the DT for both variety and historical reasons. A guy named Kevin K. posted a bunch of historical info and photos about the "ditch trail" on his blog and it's very interesting.

    I think there is some legitimate confusion about whether a "closed to bikes" trail means you can't even possess a bike while on the trail.

    I personally don't think there is a problem walking (or carrying) a bike across (or along) a closed trail to enter an "undesignated" or even "open" to bikes trail. The applicable code sections refer to "uses" and "users" and if one is not USING a bike then a good argument exists that one is not violating any trail designations, especially if in route to a bike legal (or neutral) trail.

    How else can someone extricate themselves if they find out they're on an illegal trail due to poor signage? Wouldn't they have to walk their bike out? Is carrying fold-up scooter or skateboard in your backpack illegal too if on the wrong trail?

    Correct me if anyone has any actual information or experiences with this issue as for all I know there may be cases that prove me wrong. I would like to know if anyone has been cited for "possessing" a bike while on a closed trail but not seen actually riding it.

    By the way a State Parks Ranger can only cite you if they personally see you violating a trail designation so don't worry too much about crazy runners unless they're wearing a State Parks uniform.

    PS - Also "Ms. Angry Trail Runner Who Was Almost Killed Once By A Mountain Biker" was possibly "disturbing the peace" when she was yelling at Ron, which is a misdemeanor. (PC 415) This is why we should all have GoPros!

    See ya on the trails

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    anecdotal?
    I must Google that and get back to you.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm62 View Post
    Following this thread with interest.

    Thanks for posting that route. I want to hit the DT for both variety and historical reasons. A guy named Kevin K. posted a bunch of historical info and photos about the "ditch trail" on his blog and it's very interesting.
    Oh you mean this mouthbreather?

    Insurance salesman says "Mountain Bikers Are Destroying Trails In Granite Bay"

  61. #61
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    Omg too funny... Yes that's him.

    His post on the Ditch Trail is informative and has pictures of his (or should I say "a") mountain bike... maybe he's trying to lure us out there so Park Watch can yell at us?

    It's almost as if he's an insurance salesman or something

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm62 View Post

    It's almost as if he's an insurance salesman or something
    lol

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