But you have to have kindling (sticks) to start a fire.
Originally Posted by francois
I have been running tubeless for a year now and I love them. It took a little trial and error to figure out how to deal with, but it was well worth it. I run Maxxis Highroller 26x2.35 at about 20 lbs front / 22 lbs rear, I weigh about 165 lbs. I didn't get an excessive amount of flats running tubes. I did hold back on rocky sections in order to avoid pinch flats on occasion, which I no longer do for the most part. Not having to worry about flatting takes weight off your shoulders generally speaking.
I was able to use this video to figure out most of what I needed to know to swap tires or add sealant:
Ask a Mechanic: Installing Tubeless Tires Without a Mess - YouTube
I didn't have valves with removable cores at first, but I was still able to bead the tire with my blackburn floor pump. I have had good luck with my particular tires and rims. Since then I bought a compressor, valves with removable cores and the Stan's injector, so I have everything I need. My tubeless tires might leak air a little bit faster than tubes, but I normally check my pressure before every ride anyways.
Originally Posted by francois
It's not really THAT hard. Stan's Rims and Specialized 2Bliss tires work very well together. I've got 4 sets setup with different Sp tires and have never had to use a compressor.
Now Schwalbe on the other hand. Yeah, not so much.......
Ya just have to find the right combo like anything else.
I, for one will "never" run tubes again.
Re: Going Tubeless - can I get some advice on best practices?
I use this exact tool. Seriously. Useful for my tractors too.
You missed one key trick that is worth leaving on this thread: put a tube in and inflate to ~50 psi, and leave it for ~10min. This will form the tire to the rim and into a nice round shape, which is key since most new tires come folded almost flat. Then deflate the tube, and remove it, trying to only break the tire from the rim on one side. Remove the tube, install valve stem, inflate tubeless. Even if you break the bead seat on both sides, having the tire shape formed up properly greatly increases you chance of tubeless success.
Originally Posted by AKD
Have a couple coors and then use some ether!
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I used to run tubeless and now back to tubes. Generally agree with everything Francis says. If you have a dual suspension and don't get a lot of flats, its not worth it. For me the biggest pain is swapping tires. Tons of messy cleanup.
Depending on where you ride, lots of the bay area trails don't have huge rock gardens and cactus thorns. We don't get as many flats as some other parts of the country.
- Forget stans liquid, there are better sealants out there.
- Use tubeless ready tires. The beads that lock tight into place are key for less burping. Also less rim damage when the tire deflates on the trail.
- Carry a spare tube. When you have a flat on the trail you don't do tubeless on the trail, you put a tube instead.
- No need for windex/soap/water to seat the tire. Blast them to the maximum inflation pressure listed on the tire and they will always pop to place. Save yourself the mess.
- Use a compressor, like in a gas station. An adaptor is like $1-2 in a bike shop.
- Make sure you have removable cores to make adding liquid easy, it's a PITA otherwise.
- Do only one wheel to see if you like it. You may decide the downsides outweigh the benefits. Cleaning up rims and tires from tubeless sealant is a PITA.
Tubeless is better. Better handling, lower weight, fewer flats. The only issue I have had is forgetting to check the sealant level. Leaks accelerate when the sealant dries up, which recently caused my one and only flat with tubeless.
I rode a rigid Niner for two years and love tubeless. It made a huge difference in how the bike felt and overall comfort. I weigh 190 and use 20 - 23 psi (possibly my pump gauge indicates low). Never had any problems. Only one flat that required a tube in in about 6000 miles.
I have had the same front tire on my bike (now a hardtail) for maybe 18 month and never added Stan's. It's probably dry but no flat so far. I wear out rear tires more often than I need to add Stan's so basically zero maintenance.
My first problem using tubeless happened last week when I tried to mount a Bontrager non-UST very low weight tire. Took me two hours since the beed did not want to seat. Finally installed a tube for about 5 minutes and then removed the tube leaving one side of the tire seated. After a couple of attempts the other beed seated. Rode 45 miles over the last two days without having to add air.
I believe the key to tubeless is using the right rim. I have Stan's Flow rims and while not especially low weight they stay true and work flawlessly with tubeless. I still appreciate the ride quality of tubeless even though I switched from rigid to a ht. Not sure if one can feel the difference on a fs bike but I think it would make a difference in handling when running low psi. I am not an aggressive rider but I believe I can tell the difference.
Borabora is probably correct; a good rim seems to make a difference. I have had no issues and good experience with Stan's Flow rims. Various Roval rims (Control SL, old Control EL, new Control Carbon, basic OE) have also been completely reliable tubeless.
With WTB i23 rims I had a major burp on a downhill, once, but that was my fault due to a very low pressure experiment (I was running at about 16psi with a big front tire); otherwise they have been fine.
The rate of sealant evaporation depends mostly on how porous the tire is, and secondarily on climate. Some tires, especially lighter ones, have very porous sidewalls. You may be able to see the sealant weeping through and in any case it will be gone in 2 months. Many "non-tubeless" tires fall into this category. Average life of sealant is maybe around 6 months, not longer. You can run tubeless fine without sealant (just like cars and motos) but a puncture in the tire will cause a flat so it is not a good idea.
Also, I think tubeless is probably less appropriate for folks who don't ride at least once per week. With more occasional riding the sealant will be less evenly distributed and the loss of pressure will be more noticeable.
I check pressures, at least by feel, before every ride, by gauge about once per week. Some tires need air once a month; more porous tires will need some air every week.
I have Bontrager rims, rim strips, tires, and valves with Stan's sealant on my Fuel EX. This setup has been problem free. I rarely have to add air when I ride regularly. My pressure is a little high at about 30 psi, but the bike rolls so much smoother and faster on rocky downhills than with tubes at about 45 psi. The videos on notubes.com help a lot with installation. I think the components are key. I tried to convert the non-tubeless-ready rims and tires on my commuter bike to tubeless but had to go back to Slime tubes.
Absolutely true. Tubeless is great for bikes that get moved a few times per week, and not ideal for bikes that sit for several days on end, since the sealant will coagulate in one place when a bike sits for stretches of a several days or more.
Originally Posted by Jfloren
Other suggestion: Use a tooth brush to paint sealant around the bead surface where it mates with the rim. Doing so will help seal the tire to the rim upon first inflation. Might also save a few shake and turn repetitions. I intentionally overdo this a bit, and then hose it off after the tire is seated and sealed.
Have used tape and valves on 6 different Stan's rims (including my commuter) without incident, and used rim strips on Sun CR18 rims with no issues as well. I prefer the Stan's rims to more conventional designs because 2.2 & larger tires tended to roll laterally laterally on the CR18 rims. They never flatted or rolled off the rim, but they I could move them by hand far more than I felt comfortable with. OTOH, all of my 2.2" tires on just about any Stan's rim will sit nice and stable.
A lot of good points here, but I thought I'd throw in another two cents:
1) Gorilla tape cut to the right width works fine, is cheap and highly available (am I talking about tape or the local massage parlor?). Seriously, it works and the only better solution may be little plugs for each spoke hole for the weight weenies or those that break spokes frequently. Haven't tried the plugs yet, and I somewhat question the reliability, but see plugs as the future for the weight weenie crowd. Sealing the spoke holes is the easy part.
2) Get a 1/3 HP, 3 gal compressor from Harbor Freight for $50 and Presta Schrader adapter for a buck. Cost isn't much more than a floor pump and saves a lot of sweat. And tears. Haven't bled yet.
3). Stans sealant hasn't failed me yet. It dries out and you throw in another scoop every few months. It's good to inspect your tires every once in a whole anyway. I ride in thorny, jagged rocky SoCal. Thinking about trying the Truckerco juice next time I need more product.
4) if you ride a hardtail, tubeless is mandatory. Assuming you ride with fun in mind.
5) You can easily tell the difference between tubeless and tubed tires on any bike HT or FS. There's an audible difference - a hollow sound to tubeless when rolling. It's a good sound. The tire conforms to the trail better and generally feels more lively.
6) I don't understand why people are saying to run the same pressure. This idea is way too general and each tire/rim/rider combo needs to be evaluated individually. I personally always run lower pressure tubeless, as this is probably the main benefit.
In 2010, I had a shop install my tubeless tires (WTB Weirwolf 2.3s) with some Stan's. Once per year I add some additional Stan's through the valve stem. I ride trails about once per week throughout the year, plus ride around the house with my family. I have not had one flat.
Up in Auburn, a few months ago, I rode over a coat hanger sized metal rod and punctured enough that I could hear the air rush out. I turned the hole to the bottom and it instantly sealed it. I gave it a few minutes and finished the ride. I haven't done a thing to the tire since then and it is holding up fine. It's like it never happened.
Edit: I forgot to mention I am 225#'s and run about 34 psi in my tires. I ride a 2009 Fuel EX 8. The wheels are stock except for the rim strip to seal them. I bring along one tube when I remember, but after four years of no flats, I sometimes forget. Some people don't like Stan's, but I've never had a problem with it.
Update: Been running tubeless now for a bit and it's cool. Definitely like it. I have not yet had to inflate a tire as others have done it for me. A bike shop filled me in on a method that I thought was cool. When seating a new tire, take the piston out of the tube and inflate to get the seal. Then replace the piston and fill to needed PSI. Said it helps to seat better that way.
I do have a question though. I bought a new compressor. Can I get advice on a trigger gun to work with presta? I have been to several auto stores but haven't found one that works well.
Edit: Went and bought this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I'm not sure how this works.
You can use one of those screw-on presta-to-schraeder adapters for your valve stem, then use a regular schrader trigger attachment for the compressor. In my experience that works OK but not great. For a real presta compressor attachment, check out Prestacycle:
Presta Air Compressor Bicycle Inflator, fits both Presta and Schrader - Prestaflator.com
Though it looks pretty similar to the other much cheaper one just posted.
BTW by "piston" I think you mean "valve core".
I've been liking tubeless, but sometimes it's frustrating. Just got a flat up in Downieville, and it was a tiny hole in the main tread (not sidewall), but the Stan's just refused to seal it, not sure why. The only thing worse than fixing a regular flat is fixing a tubeless-filled-with-Stans flat.
You can give me all your old Stan's dirtied tires if you want. I really don't care what the inside of a tire looks like.
Originally Posted by twowheelmotion
My compressor came with a 13 piece attachment set. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I just use the little black nozzle. At 100 psi, you can inflate through the valve stem (easier with the core removed, but still possible if it's in place) just by putting the nozzle close enough to the stem and letting rip with the pressure.
I think there's a presta/schrader inflator in the attachment set, but I didn't bother.
That's what I use on my pancake compressor and it works great! Just need to use the presta to shredder adapter.
Originally Posted by squashyo
You only live once, but if you work it right, once is enough.
I like the Prestaflator because it is almost foolproof and the gauge is very accurate; no need to check and re-check pressure. Checking and adjusting pressure on both tires is a snap, completed in less than 30 seconds.
All good information above. You really do not need removable valves if you care with your goo.
My main experience has been use a tubeless ready or UST tire. That really is the most important part.
Yeah, I have not needed the removable valve cores. At least with the various rims and tires I have used, it is no big deal to pop a bead for a refill, and this is necessary to see how much sealant is left (and to remove boogers of dried latex).
Didn't have a chance to read through since I'm just sitting in the parking lot waiting for my visiting coworker to do shopping at Safeway. A couple of quick comments. Sorry if they've been discussed:
1) most tubeless ready tires, we can seat with floor pump. The ones we can't, one CO2 cartridge takes care of it. Easy and quick.
2) Stan's really works. I've seen another sealant that did not work. Orange something.
3) some tire delaminates with Stan's. My MAXXIS did.
Going Tubeless - can I get some advice on best practices?
Very good posts ! Stans and other latex based sealants work very well but for the same reason dry in a few months (e.g. 6 months). If you do not flat often or use reinforced UST tyres or 2-ply you can try Slime. It will last at least a couple of years, good for punctures but not so effective as others for big punctures or cuts.
There are many reasons to go tubeless, mine is to avoid 99% of the flats rather than riding at lower pressures or weight reduction.
If you puncture or remove the tyre to do maintenance, as said, the best thing to do is to keep riding the bike so that rotation and friction help sealing all the wholes.
UST tires when mounted on UST rims can be used without sealant at all, I was riding like this for half a year only refilling air every for or five rides (my rear wheel had quite a few punctures !!!)
In any case you should bring a pump, co2 bottles, repair kit, a tube or two....as usual depending on the ride
Regarding bikes that do not move so often or ghetto tubeless...I think it is not so important if the tubeless upgrade has been done correctly since the tyre may loose air but the lip will still be in place and sealed: reinflate, ride around the block and you are ready to go !
In any case when you go tubeless is the same as when you go with tubes: you will have to learn which setup is best of you (tyre, rim, pressure, riding style, rider weigth...). What works for one person, doesn't work for another
If you are doing very aggressive or technical MTB and like riding at very low pressures you should be aware of the risk of the tyre moving sidewards and loosing all air instantly. Wider rims will reduce this risk.
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