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  1. #1
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    GB Twin Rocks Guard Rail Project

    Sounds like State Parks is planning to install some sort of a guard rail system along Twin Rocks and Boulder Roads to eliminate the informal parking lot at that location that is used to access Granite Bay.

    THIS link shows the basic idea for the work. I understand this project could get underway in the very near future.
    Last edited by Rich H.; 01-26-2011 at 09:55 PM.

  2. #2
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    Not all that surprised. Parks are hurting for money, that lot is used very heavily and I'm sure the locals aren't thrilled with it. Actually when I found out about it I couldn't believe it was legal to park there.
    :wq

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    Next they will try to find someway to close down the parking at Cavitt Jr High.
    Then we won't be able to park at BP in Folsom to access Lake Natomas.
    Whats next. Are they going to close down the parking lot at Folsom Bike & Grind?

    They won't get an extra dime by closing down Twin Rocks. The park users will just go elsewhere. And for what, a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of guardrail?
    Nice, tax dollars well spent
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  4. #4
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    There will always be the liquor store lot! The owner is cool and knows his scotch!

  5. #5
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    Well said....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality
    Next they will try to find someway to close down the parking at Cavitt Jr High.
    Then we won't be able to park at BP in Folsom to access Lake Natomas.
    Whats next. Are they going to close down the parking lot at Folsom Bike & Grind?

    They won't get an extra dime by closing down Twin Rocks. The park users will just go elsewhere. And for what, a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of guardrail?
    Nice, tax dollars well spent
    Exactly. And, let's not do anything about opening up existing, local trail systems (Browns Ravine) to take some pressure off the Granite Bay system, too.

  6. #6
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    This closure was in response to neighbors near the twin rocks lot complaining for several years and asking it to be closed. Most of the complaints were about trash, noise, loitering, etc. It is not about revenue generation.

  7. #7
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    I'm surprised that it didn't happen sooner. We had a good thing going there (i.e. free parking next to some of the better singletrack in the park). I have friends in the local neighborhood, and they have indicated that their homeowner’s associations are very upset about the current situation at the parking area for a couple of years. I have talked with both Jim Michaels at State Parks and Placer County concerning the closure. They indicated that the Twin Rocks area was never intended to be used as a major staging area, as is currently the case. The Park will be building guard rail closing off the informal parking area in April after the CEQA process is complete. I am not sure that there is much that can be done to fight the closure. The parking area is not a formal access point per the Park’s General Plan, and the Park wants/needs the park use fees given the current budget deficits. The Park has met the local equestrian groups (LBHA), and after an initial protest they are supporting the closure. The horsey peep’s use this area just as much as us.

    State Parks will be meeting with mountain bike groups (probably FATRAC) to discuss the closure, but I don’t see the Park changing their mind on this one. All of the behavior that the Park is using for justification of for the closure (access point for night riding after the park is closed, noise, litter, congestion, unauthorized trail building, speeding on Twin Rocks, public urination, large groups of riders congregating after rides) is hard to argue with and happening at the parking area on a regular basis. Sad to see this location closed, but there are lots of other places to access the Park’s trail system.

  8. #8
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    It is too bad Prop 21 didn't pass. It would have made this loss of the parking area at Twin Rocks a moot point. The state would have had plenty of cash to put the guardrails in and we all would have been able to drive into the park and use the internal lots for free.

    Simple Google search showed this nice little document that complains about illegal trail use as usual by horsepeople, but it has a nice little proposal to put in the guard rails.

    http://www.garlic.com/~lbha/LBHABike...dateFinal1.pdf

    More on the horsepeople-centric "Parkwatch" website regarding this. http://www.parkwatchreport.org/article.html?pub=alert

    I'm completely against the illegal trail building activities in areas not opened to bikes, but this seems like such a petty way to go after mountain bikers, closing down their easy access. I don't usually get out there during "night riding" times of the day, but the times I do get out there I really have not seen much in the way of trash problems (see more horse droppings!) and everyone acts rather responsible and cool. Reports of hordes of mountain bikers have to be unfounded, as there is not room to have that many vehicles park to have the reported "70 cars with bikers" along Boulder or Twin Rocks road. Overblown BS to be sure.

    I don't see the horsepeople as having to give up much by the blocking off of this parking area by the guardrails. I never see that many trailers parked at that site anyway, probably a max of three on a weekend day. I think this is just another idea by the horsepeople as a way to get the damn mountain bikers off THEIR trails! Remove easy access and they will stop coming must be the idea.
    Last edited by Bokchoicowboy; 01-28-2011 at 11:31 AM.

  9. #9
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    My understanding from Park staff is that this closure is more about the problems and overuse at the parking area than about revenue for the Park. They are level-headed enough to understand that people who choose to park at a free parking area are going to find another free parking location. There are plenty of other locations to access the Park without paying the entrance fee.

  10. #10
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    pulled up there once and the ranger (she was HOT by the way) was ticketing EVERY vehicle blocking the entrance, or with even an inch over the pavement.

    The huge diesel + ginormous horse trailer took up like nine spots though.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man
    The huge diesel + ginormous horse trailer took up like nine spots though.
    Did it get nine tickets?

  12. #12
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    why guardrail?

    Wouldn't be cheaper (and more practical) to just put up "No Parking" signs? They can get their revenue from the fines.
    Normally guardrail is used to protect from roadway hazards ... I don't think an open dirt runout area is considered hazardous in anyone's book. Just a thought...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe
    Did it get nine tickets?
    zero

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man
    pulled up there once and the ranger (she was HOT by the way) was ticketing EVERY vehicle blocking the entrance, or with even an inch over the pavement.

    The huge diesel + ginormous horse trailer took up like nine spots though.
    pics Adrian, we need PICS!

  15. #15
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    P.O. Box 2326, Loomis CA 95650
    November 8, 2010
    Superintendent Ted Jackson
    Folsom Lake State Recreation Area
    7755 Folsom-Auburn Road
    Folsom, CA 95630
    Dear Ted:
    This is a follow-up to our letter dated August 24, 2010, concerning the illegal bike trails
    located on the Hofmann property that is now controlled by State Parks. We were very
    pleased to see the opening in the fence at mile 38.5 closed, and that barriers were erected
    by the Folsom Lake Trail Patrol under the guidance of a State Parks Ranger. However the
    barriers and the fence were all torn down within a week. As of yesterday, the illegal downhill
    trail (inside the Hofmann property) had not been fenced or blocked off, so it is still accessible
    to mountain bikers if they enter at Twin Rocks/Boulder Rd. LBHA is requesting that this trail
    also be blocked.
    The building of illegal bike trails is not just happening in FLSRA. Many other parks across
    the nation are having the same problems. An official at a park in the northwest stated that
    most of the builders had no knowledge of how to build trails, how to maintain the
    environment or provide safety for its users. The illegal trails caused much environmental
    damage to the area. The trails took only a short time to build, but it took a long time to
    restore the area after they were removed. Had the bikers gotten official permission to build
    the trail, it would have had to go through all the work of CEQA and other permit
    requirements. All safety issues for not only the bikers but other users would have been
    considered.
    Looking at the Conditional Use Permit for the Hofmann property, it shows that all the 44 lots
    had Valley Elderberry Longhorn Beetle (VELB) Habitat on them, In addition, a 1980
    document states that there may be archeological sites on the Hofmann property. While the
    1980 report is confidential, the abstract does state that the 659 acres of land which
    previously included the Hofmann 82 acres had prehistoric and historic findings.
    With this in mind, it is requested that when trails are developed in the trail master plan that
    those--if added to the Hofmann area--be limited to Equestrian/ Pedestrian trails as they
    would not be as damaging to the environment as a technical bike trail. As winter rains start,
    the illegal bike trails will cause a lot of run-off and environmental damage.
    Some ideas to help prevent illegal trails from being built in the area of the Hofmann property
    which is now part of FLSRA ,might include:
     Build a barrier or short fence along the right-of-way of Twin Rocks/Boulder where the
    entrance to the park is located. There have been some Wednesday evenings when
    as many as 70 cars with bikers have been parked along the road. The neighbors
    report hearing the hoots and hollers of the riders as they ride the illegal trail. Besides
    the parking, the noise is also an inconvenience to the neighbors that live there. The
    authorities have been called at times about the parking. If the entrance was only for
    local walk-ins, it would deter bikers from coming. A “No Parking” barrier would also
    penalize horse trailers, but they could make arrangements to park at the local stables
    along that road or go into the Granite Bay entrance to the park and utilize the
    Horsemen’s Assembly Area.
     Signage: It is known that signs come down faster than they go up. However, a sign is
    needed stating: ILLEGAL TRAIL—RIDING OR USING THIS TRAIL CAN CAUSE
    DAMAGE TO THIS SENSITIVE AREA—VIOLATORS WILL BE CITED.
    The area of mile 38 to 38.5 is known to be an area of illegal trails. It is also known that
    mountain bikers ride Tuesday-Thursday evenings as well as during daylight hours. With
    that in mind, a ranger should be assigned to patrol that area more frequently during
    times of heavy mountain bike use.
    In closing, as winter approaches and the ground gets wetter, more illegal trails will be
    built. They need to be stopped before too much damage is done. Since there is VELB
    habitat in the form of elderberry shrubs confirmed by the US Fish & Wildlife biologist, it is
    requested that State Parks allow only the existing equestrian/pedestrian trails to remain
    in the Hofmann property and not create any new multi-use trails for reasons stated
    above.
    Sincerely,
    Kathy Dombrowski
    LBHA advisor to the board
    Loomis Basin Horsemen’s Association
    .
    Copy To:
     Jim Michaels FLSRA, State Parks
     Scott Nakaji, FLSRA, State Parks
     Brian Moses, FLSRA, State Parks
     Ruth Coleman Director Ca State Parks
     US Fish & Wildlife-Office of Law Enforcement
    Attn: Marilee Brown, Special Agent 2800 Cottage Way, Room W-2928 Sacramento, CA
    95825

    This person person who wrote this letter has there head up there a$$, first of all the comment about the 1980 confidential report is B.S the only way to harm the elderberry beetle is to cut down elderberry trees or use chemicals, our eat them. their actually more illegal horse trails out there.2) In the letter kathy mentions ther were 70 cars with bikes on them i'm calling bull$--t on this one you can't park more than 15-20 cars out there. there is a couple of running clubs out at night. how can a horse or pedestrian or dogs be any different than bikes. as a matter of fact what about the horse crap that runs into the lake? this were kids swim.it sounds like blm will take over soon. they do not close trails to anyone except moterized vehicles.this attitude some horse people have the same as the south in the 1960's (blacks to the back of the bus) or woman should be barefoot & pregnant and there vote does not count.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by napa
    Kathy Dombrowski
    LBHA advisor to the board
    Loomis Basin Horsemen’s Association
    That's all you need to know about how much validity this sad rant has.

    Horses destroy trails much faster and much more then bicycles. That's a well proven fact. Anybody who is riding those dangerous animals, pulverizing trails and defecating over them, has no say about preservation of our parks. This is just a bunch of well-off slave animal owning snobs trying to exclude everybody from public lands.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    That's all you need to know about how much validity this sad rant has.

    Horses destroy trails much faster and much more then bicycles. That's a well proven fact. Anybody who is riding those dangerous animals, pulverizing trails and defecating over them, has no say about preservation of our parks. This is just a bunch of well-off slave animal owning snobs trying to exclude everybody from public lands.

    I like the way you think
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  18. #18
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    We ride the Hofmann property all of the time. Never seen anyone but bikers up there. For the most part, the trails are very smooth and tight because of the fact that horses don't venture up there, the one exception being the trail down to the pond which has a waterline running down the middle of it. The jump line, if you can find it, is very well built and is only a danger to those that ride it. After exiting the jump line and the Hofmann property, you do have to ride the Pioneer trail, but for no more than 20 feet before you get to the multiuse trail. This old hag can beat her drum all she wants but it's not going to stop anyone from riding this area as there are many ways in and out and you can access many other non designated trails from this area. Reading an article like the one above only makes me want to Chum their trails more. Some day they will thank us for smoothing out their precious trails. As for the Valley Elderberry Beetle, give me a break, it's an F'ing beetle. I've dealt with this issue for years being involved in development and it's ridiculous in my opinion that such an insignificant insect can cause so many issues with development. It's not like we're out there clear cutting acres worth of brush and destroying large swaths of growth. In conclusion, waste all the money you want trying to keep us out. All this is going to accomplish is creating less crowded conditions for those of us who will continue to ride.

  19. #19
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    are you talking about the blue pipe part of the trail? that's great part of GB!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chapped (o) Hole
    We ride the Hofmann property all of the time. Never seen anyone but bikers up there. For the most part, the trails are very smooth and tight because of the fact that horses don't venture up there, the one exception being the trail down to the pond which has a waterline running down the middle of it. The jump line, if you can find it, is very well built and is only a danger to those that ride it. After exiting the jump line and the Hofmann property, you do have to ride the Pioneer trail, but for no more than 20 feet before you get to the multiuse trail. This old hag can beat her drum all she wants but it's not going to stop anyone from riding this area as there are many ways in and out and you can access many other non designated trails from this area. Reading an article like the one above only makes me want to Chum their trails more. Some day they will thank us for smoothing out their precious trails. As for the Valley Elderberry Beetle, give me a break, it's an F'ing beetle. I've dealt with this issue for years being involved in development and it's ridiculous in my opinion that such an insignificant insect can cause so many issues with development. It's not like we're out there clear cutting acres worth of brush and destroying large swaths of growth. In conclusion, waste all the money you want trying to keep us out. All this is going to accomplish is creating less crowded conditions for those of us who will continue to ride.

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    Yep

  21. #21
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    and theres so much more back there!

    Funny that we all ride it.

    lol horsies

  22. #22
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    maybe i need to explore some more.. i've gone from the top of blue pipe all the way to a couple trails that run into a neighborhood and it isn't the los lagos trail. not sure where they end up

  23. #23
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    More on the guard rail: http://www.garlic.com/~lbha/Guard-ra...RocksFeb11.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by napa
    Kathy Dumbass-rowski
    LBHA advisor to the board
    Loomis Basin Horsemen’s Association
    She's a legendary nut job at the different trail planning meetings I've been to. But, she's tireless in her efforts to keep bikes off her trails.

    More reality from the LBHA website: (http://www.garlic.com/~lbha/)

    PIONEER EXPRESS TRAIL

    The Pioneer Express Trail, because of its narrowness, lack of escape routes for passing, lack of sight lines, steepness, and extreme danger to anyone pushed off the trail, has always been designated a hiker/equestrian footpath only. Ted Jackson, Superintendent of Folsom Lake SRA, emailed this week, "There have been no changes made to the rules and regulations regarding the Pioneer Express Trail. All prohibitions remain in force."

    Here is what you can do if you encounter bikes in this area.
    1. Nicely correct them, and say the Superintendent of the Park Ted Jackson has clarified the rules this week because of information that was given out in error.
    2. Show the bikers the closest place they may exit the trail, or turn them around so they may go back the way they came. Ask them to walk their bikes so they present less of a danger to other trail users who do not expect them. After they are gone, call Dispatch so if the Rangers are in the area, they can warn them at the trailhead.
    3. If you encounter resistance, please call the Dispatch numbers on your Park Watch card immediately. DO NOT ARGUE OR CONFRONT, even though you are right.
    4. If they threaten you, call 911 and stay on the line until you feel comfortable. Take a cell phone picture. Try to remember identifying information, or record it or text into your phone.
    I wonder why she/they never mention the 3' deep trail bed on Pioneer? It won't be too much longer that the horsey riders feet will be dragging on the edges of the trail.

    Lastly,
    1/15/2011

    TRAIL WORK DAY

    A work day to remove the illegal bike jumps and do trail work on the illegal bike trail in the area of Mile38 and 38.5 is being set by State Parks. As soon as we have a date, we will be asking for volunteers, horsemen as well as other trail users to help. if you would like to help, please contact lbha@garlic.com
    Man they (she) spends a lot of time trying to rid the world of bikes!!! http://www.garlic.com/~lbha/BikeTrailPhotoLinks.htm
    Last edited by Empty_Beer; 02-02-2011 at 09:03 PM.

  24. #24
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    My Name is Bill Rose I live in the area of Folsom Lake but drive about 3 miles to access the lake at Twin Rocks and Boulder Road and have done so for almost 28 years. Yesterday I had a petition professionally printed to gather signatures requesting "Folsom State Parks" host an open public meeting to discuss stopping their plan to spend $20K of our tax dollars to exclude us from an established "right of use" to park in this area.

    I am looking for any and all help in getting the word out and with collecting signatures. I will be attempting to put an electronic petition on line so that we can use the internet to grow this effort.

    I have read all the post found here tonight and agree with most of what is being said. Because the State Parks thinks that they will increase their revenue stream it only took 30 local residents to get them to spend 20K of your money.

    I plan to try to stop their actions if possible. If you want to help, contact me via this web address-- williamkurtrose@yahoo.com you may also call me on my cell (916) 765-0586

    I gathered about 40 signatures by my self this afternoon in only 2 hours with your help we could get to one thousand in several weeks. Thanks

    By the way TED JACKSON is the Folsom Sector Superintendent that is pushing for this barricade at Twin Rocks. Please feel free to contact him at (916) 988-0205 or email at
    TJACK@parks.ca.org

    He needs to hear how displeased we are!
    Last edited by williamkurtrose; 02-04-2011 at 02:17 PM.

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    would you consider helping to collect signatures to force the State into a public forum?

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    I'm looking for help with the task of taking on the State Parks decision to close Twin Rocks free parking. Is anyone out there interested?

    Bill

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    Bill,
    An online petition would probably be the best bet since physically signing in person is a little difficult to coordinate. If this can be setup, just forward a link on this thread and I'm sure that your signature count would increase tenfold in a hurry. I personally would sign it even though I do not use the Twin Rocks parking area.
    A quick google search came back with petitiononline.com, it is supposedly a free service.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redlinerex
    Bill,
    An online petition would probably be the best bet since physically signing in person is a little difficult to coordinate. If this can be setup, just forward a link on this thread and I'm sure that your signature count would increase tenfold in a hurry. I personally would sign it even though I do not use the Twin Rocks parking area.
    A quick google search came back with petitiononline.com, it is supposedly a free service.

    What he said.



    .
    ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ


    .

  29. #29
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    I hope it doesn't get torn down. It might though, since other stuff is being torn down. Time for me to buy land and build myself!

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    Corrected address for State Parks-Ted Jackson Superintendent

    I believe the correct email address for Ted Jackson, who is the Folsom Sector Superintendent -- Gold Fields District is as follows: TJACK@parks.ca.org

    If you are interested in making yourself heard please don't hesitate in weighing in on this parking closure at Twin Rocks.

    I will follow up with the email address to Placer County Supervisors as soon as I can.

    Bill Rose
    Last edited by williamkurtrose; 02-04-2011 at 02:15 PM.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by williamkurtrose
    My Name is Bill Rose I live in the area of Folsom Lake but drive about 3 miles to access the lake at Twin Rocks and Boulder Road and have done so for almost 28 years. Yesterday I had a petition professionally printed to gather signatures requesting "Folsom State Parks" host an open public meeting to discuss stopping their plan to spend $20K of our tax dollars to exclude us from an established "right of use" to park in this area.

    I am looking for any and all help in getting the word out and with collecting signatures. I will be attempting to put an electronic petition on line so that we can use the internet to grow this effort.

    I have read all the post found here tonight and agree with most of what is being said. Because the State Parks thinks that they will increase their revenue stream it only took 30 local residents to get them to spend 20K of your money.

    I plan to try to stop their actions if possible. If you want to help, contact me via this web address-- williamkurtrose@yahoo.com you may also call me on my cell (916) 765-0586

    I gathered about 40 signatures by my self this afternoon in only 2 hours with your help we could get to one thousand in several weeks. Thanks

    By the way TED JACKSON is the Folsom Sector Superintendent that is pushing for this barricade at Twin Rocks. Please feel free to contact him at (916) 988-0205 or email at
    TJACK@parks.ca.us

    He needs to hear how displeased we are!
    Personally, I think we should contact the 1st elected official this ******** reports to, and demand Ted Jackson's termination for spending money on an poor use of state funds. We need to articulate why this would be a poor return on investment as it won't boost additional revenue by forcing people to pay to enter the park.

    Additionally, the 30 home owners are complaining about an entrance, yet it didn't keep them from purchasing the homes. Anyone who has ever purchased a piece of property understands as soon as they enter escrow, they get dislosures. If they were never given disclosures, the correct coarse of action would be to sue the real estate broker, not complain to the state park service. We need to further state that some of the home owners may feel a nusance, however they aren't anymore entitled to the twin rocks entrance, then those of us who drive to that location.

    Lastly, if disckhead's supervisor's condons the $20 expense, he/she was not paying attention during the last election, and is currently enjoying their last moments in office.


    Sincerely

    People who are willing to put Government offials back in their place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by williamkurtrose
    I believe the correct email address for Ted Jackson, who is the Folsom Sector Superintendent -- Gold Fields District is as follows: TJACK@parks.ca.us

    If you are interested in making yourself heard please don't hesitate in weighing in on this parking closure at Twin Rocks.

    I will follow up with the email address to Placer County Supervisors as soon as I can.

    Bill Rose
    Were you the guy collecting signatures this afternoon. Thanks for your effort.

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    Yes and thank you for the support. The Gold Fields Superintendent's email address is
    TJACK@parks.ca.org
    Last edited by williamkurtrose; 02-04-2011 at 02:13 PM.

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    Honestly, I don't care if they close down Twin Rocks, there's plenty of other places to park and ride in. It's going to hurt the horsies more than it's going to hurt us and I understand the view point of the residents of the area. Closing down trails is another matter, and to solicit help from Mtb'ers in restoring the Hofmann property is preposterous.

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    On line Petiton to Stop the Twin Rocks Parking Closure

    Quote Originally Posted by williamkurtrose
    Yes and thank you for the support. The Gold Fields Superintendent's email address is
    TJACK@parks.ca.org

    Here is the link to the online Petition to Demand a Public Meeting regarding the Twin Rocks Parking Closure.

    http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe....cgi?9880205&1
    Last edited by williamkurtrose; 02-04-2011 at 02:14 PM.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chapped (o) Hole
    Honestly, I don't care if they close down Twin Rocks, there's plenty of other places to park and ride in. It's going to hurt the horsies more than it's going to hurt us and I understand the view point of the residents of the area. Closing down trails is another matter, and to solicit help from Mtb'ers in restoring the Hofmann property is preposterous.

    You should care! If the government can close a place that has been open for OUR use for year's what's to stop them from closing others?

    This could gain momentum and chapped all in the end.

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    Thanks Larry, If we don't care and don't get organized soon The very People we pay to oversee our Natural Wilderness Lands will completely close us out unless we pay more for their concession based entrance program.

    Bill

    And by the way I do support our parks system by donating many hours of work.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by williamkurtrose
    Yes and thank you for the support. The Gold Fields Superintendent's email address is
    TJACK@parks.ca.us

    Here is the RIGHT email!

    TJACK@parks.ca.gov

  39. #39
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    I have tried that address and must have had a glitch in that particular attempt.

    Please see The New Thread that I have started in regard to Twin Rocks Parking Closure.

    It will direct you to a url that will allow you to vote on line to stop the closure and to demand a public meeting on this issue.

    Mean while post as many emails to Ted Jackson as possible

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by williamkurtrose
    Here is the link to the online Petition to Demand a Public Meeting regarding the Twin Rocks Parking Closure.

    http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe....cgi?9880205&1


    Signed.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ


    .

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by williamkurtrose
    Here is the link to the online Petition to Demand a Public Meeting regarding the Twin Rocks Parking Closure.

    http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe....cgi?9880205&1
    I just signed the petition and will forward the link to all my mtn biker friends.

    I've used that parking spot twice in the last 6 months. Most of the time I park at the Jr High and use the extra mileage as a warm up. I've seen more horse riders parked at Twin Rocks then mtn bikers over the years. I really can't see the homeowner winning the common sense battle....other than the fact they convinced the state parks system into a knee jerk decision......if they hear loud noises after 2300 hrs or before 0700 hrs then call the police but other than that it's just like living across from a community park in the burbs.

    I think we should be concerned with the State allowing TBF to have events two weekends out of the month. Forced revenue for the state......most likely funding the Twin Rock project.
    Last edited by mtnbiker4life; 02-04-2011 at 12:32 PM.

  42. #42
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    Forward The Petition

    Thanks for the support. Please remind your contacts to forward the petition to their contacts and watch this thing gain momentum.

    Bill

  43. #43
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    Signed and forwarded to friends. Not to go off subject but my daughter tells me that "they" want to remove the N-word from Tom Sawyer. I acknowledge that literature and mountain biking are very different, but it all feels the same to me.
    Sometimes, with a very strenuous effort, I will fatigue.

  44. #44
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    Signed and forwarded to my mtb friends list. Sending email to TJ as well.

  45. #45
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    We have had a bunch of confusion about Ted Jackson's email address.

    The latest correction is as follows: Tjack@parks.ca.gov

    The others go like this TJACK@parks.ca.us, TJACK@parks.ca.org

    If anyone can actually sort this confusion out please set us straight

    Thanks Bill

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    Rebuttal To Press Tribune Article about Park Damage Caused by MTB folks

    Hi my name is Bill Rose an I am the person that started the petition drive to stop Ted Jackson from State Parks from building the parking Barrier at Twin Rocks.

    The following is a letter I just sent to the Sena, a Press Tribune writter, that recently wrote a one sided article in her newspaper about MTB riders.

    Take a look and consider signing my on line Petition to stop any further attempts by State Parks to use our tax dollars to prevent us from using free parking in an around Folsom State Park

    Below is the link the the petition

    http://www.petitiononline.com/9880205/petition.html


    Sena, I just read your article about Mrs Campbell's complaints about the illegal bike trails that are being built by mountain bike enthusiasts in what is commonly referred to the "Hoffman Property". My name is Bill Rose and I have equal if not more experience than Mrs Campbell with that particular part of Folsom Lake Recreation Area. I watched as those "illegal" trails were being built and brought it to the attention of Park Rangers with no results. In fact most of the damage she refers to in your article is only about 2 years old. She is categorically miss leading everyone about who is responsible for that particular damage.

    To understand what has happened you have to be able to make a distinction between Mountain Bike Riders an the children that actually live in Mrs Campbell's immediate Neighborhood that ride BMX bicycles carrying shovels and rakes into that sensitive area. I and many people that I can name and bring as witness have seen these local BMX neighborhood children working and riding on the illegal trails that they have been constructing over the last several years. That is not to say that an occasional MTB rider does not stray onto these same trails.

    The problem that I have with your article is that it allowed one person with a misconception and a dislike for bike riders in general to publicly accuse and convict all people that ride bikes. I'm taking time to write to you because the very same parents who's children have caused this problem in "Our" park have convinced Placer County Supervisors and Ted Jackson the Superintendent of Folsom's Gold District to spend my tax dollars to construct a $20.000 parking barrier at the corner of Twin Rocks and Boulder Road to eliminate any outsiders from using what Mrs Campbell refers to as her "back yard". Once more Mr Jackson has decided that even with the budget cutbacks, that he and his staff are facing, that our tax dollars are best used to coddle the private neighborhood and special interest group that Mrs Campbell belongs to. And just like the distinction that Mrs Campbell is unable to make about Bike riders I would like to point out that there are a good number of people who live in this immediate area and belong to her private HOA that are against the State Parks intended construction of the referred to Parking Barrier especially since Ted Jackson has no intent to bring this issue up in the from a public meeting.

    As of this date the only group that Mr Jackson has allowed to weigh in on this issue is the same group of folks that stand to benefit from the Barrier that the Parks Dept. plans to build with tax payer money. Is this not ironic that the complaint of damage, misuse and disrespect for our wild lands comes from the group that ultimately is responsible for this newest insult and that they stand to gain their own permanent and private access to my lake and will be using my tax dollars and your news paper to accomplish this.



    Bill Rose
    916 765-0586

  47. #47
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    Bill, the state parks ranger association sent Gov. Brown a petition in support to have Ted Jackson appointed as the new director of State Parks.

    Just thought you might like to know.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by williamkurtrose
    Hi my name is Bill Rose an I am the person that started the petition drive to stop Ted Jackson from State Parks from building the parking Barrier at Twin Rocks.

    The following is a letter I just sent to the Sena, a Press Tribune writter, that recently wrote a one sided article in her newspaper about MTB riders.

    Take a look and consider signing my on line Petition to stop any further attempts by State Parks to use our tax dollars to prevent us from using free parking in an around Folsom State Park
    Below is the link the the petition

    http://www.petitiononline.com/9880205/petition.html


    Sena, I just read your article about Mrs Campbell's complaints about the illegal bike trails that are being built by mountain bike enthusiasts in what is commonly referred to the "Hoffman Property". My name is Bill Rose and I have equal if not more experience than Mrs Campbell with that particular part of Folsom Lake Recreation Area. I watched as those "illegal" trails were being built and brought it to the attention of Park Rangers with no results. In fact most of the damage she refers to in your article is only about 2 years old. She is categorically miss leading everyone about who is responsible for that particular damage.

    To understand what has happened you have to be able to make a distinction between Mountain Bike Riders an the children that actually live in Mrs Campbell's immediate Neighborhood that ride BMX bicycles carrying shovels and rakes into that sensitive area. I and many people that I can name and bring as witness have seen these local BMX neighborhood children working and riding on the illegal trails that they have been constructing over the last several years. That is not to say that an occasional MTB rider does not stray onto these same trails.

    The problem that I have with your article is that it allowed one person with a misconception and a dislike for bike riders in general to publicly accuse and convict all people that ride bikes. I'm taking time to write to you because the very same parents who's children have caused this problem in "Our" park have convinced Placer County Supervisors and Ted Jackson the Superintendent of Folsom's Gold District to spend my tax dollars to construct a $20.000 parking barrier at the corner of Twin Rocks and Boulder Road to eliminate any outsiders from using what Mrs Campbell refers to as her "back yard". Once more Mr Jackson has decided that even with the budget cutbacks, that he and his staff are facing, that our tax dollars are best used to coddle the private neighborhood and special interest group that Mrs Campbell belongs to. And just like the distinction that Mrs Campbell is unable to make about Bike riders I would like to point out that there are a good number of people who live in this immediate area and belong to her private HOA that are against the State Parks intended construction of the referred to Parking Barrier especially since Ted Jackson has no intent to bring this issue up in the from a public meeting.

    As of this date the only group that Mr Jackson has allowed to weigh in on this issue is the same group of folks that stand to benefit from the Barrier that the Parks Dept. plans to build with tax payer money. Is this not ironic that the complaint of damage, misuse and disrespect for our wild lands comes from the group that ultimately is responsible for this newest insult and that they stand to gain their own permanent and private access to my lake and will be using my tax dollars and your news paper to accomplish this.



    Bill Rose
    916 765-0586
    Very nice Bill. You've convinced me that this is a worthy cause. I'll do what I can.

  49. #49
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    Thanks, about now I'm feeling like I could use some support. It would really help if you guys could send the petition link to any or all of your email contacts that believe in the cause to preserve free, and well established parking near Folsom Lake.

    Bill

    By the way I have gathered 203 online signatures with an additional 100 or so on paper. That is about 100 per day, but I feel that we could really benefit from the compounding effect of using everyone's contact list.

  50. #50
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    Hey Bill,
    You might want to head over to the TBF mtn bike races later this morning to get some signatures.
    The races start at 8 and go all morning.
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  51. #51
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    I did go the TBF race

    I did go to the race but the folks were pretty busy with their sporting effort. So I did not bother them.

  52. #52
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    I did and most of those folks were very busy with their racing effort so I decided not to bother them. Hopefully they will pick up on this issue and join our effort and sign the Petition on line.

    Even better, comment directly to Ted Jackson at Tjack@parks.ca.gov

    or even call him at 988-0205

    Bill Rose

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    All, please know, the effort by the state and the neighborhood locally is to close PARKING access, not park entrance. As for disclosures handed out in escrow accounts, most of the people have lived in this neighborhood for well over 20 years and have seen this "parking" increase year over year and NOTHING was denoted in escrow papers. It has caused HUGE safety and traffic issues for people who walk, hike, bike and run in. The parking would be closed to all vehicles including horse trailers. I would think that this would be mountain bikers happy.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldk1029
    All, please know, the effort by the state and the neighborhood locally is to close PARKING access, not park entrance. As for disclosures handed out in escrow accounts, most of the people have lived in this neighborhood for well over 20 years and have seen this "parking" increase year over year and NOTHING was denoted in escrow papers. It has caused HUGE safety and traffic issues for people who walk, hike, bike and run in. The parking would be closed to all vehicles including horse trailers. I would think that this would be mountain bikers happy.
    So closing the PARKING access will not solve the problem either because like anyother street in the country one can still park alone it as long as you follow the rules posted. I know I get pissed off when my neighbors friends park in front of my house but their is nothing I can do about it unless they break the law.

    What the State should do is make a parking lot there and charge $5 for parking just like Salmon Falls.

  55. #55
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    I think it's safe to say this is someone who lives in the area. 2 post both defending the closures. Answering these will be fun.


    Quote Originally Posted by ldk1029
    All, please know, the effort by the state and the neighborhood locally is to close PARKING access, not park entrance.
    Ok, if there isn't any place to park, it's an effective closure to who............Yes you guessed it, everyone except the crybabies, oops I mean residents who live in the area.


    Quote Originally Posted by ldk1029
    As for disclosures handed out in escrow accounts, most of the people have lived in this neighborhood for well over 20 years and have seen this "parking" increase year over year and NOTHING was denoted in escrow papers.
    Ok so you lokked at the 30 residents, and cross-referenced thosewho lived there for over 20 years. Thats how you came up with that statement?????? Oh, and then you looked up all the disclosures, that is why you put NOTHING is cap locks, because you have the paperwork to proof it. Maybe nothing was in your paperwork, but you should speak to an attorney about that, not cry to the state.


    Quote Originally Posted by ldk1029
    It has caused HUGE safety and traffic issues for people who walk, hike, bike and run in. The parking would be closed to all vehicles including horse trailers. I would think that this would be mountain bikers happy.
    I'm out once a week, and have yet to see a traffic issue caused by anyone who's parking there. Does that mean it couldn't happen, no. If you thoroughly read through this thread, you will notice anyone sticking out, onto the street, was cited recently. The biggest traffic problems I have witnessed are the inconsiderate residents who drive through violating cvc 22350. Why would you think closing the parking area to horse trailers would make mtber's happy? That has to take the cake for the many idiotic claims you make with short post.

    Why don't you just go away!

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldk1029
    All, please know, the effort by the state and the neighborhood locally is to close PARKING access, not park entrance. As for disclosures handed out in escrow accounts, most of the people have lived in this neighborhood for well over 20 years and have seen this "parking" increase year over year and NOTHING was denoted in escrow papers. It has caused HUGE safety and traffic issues for people who walk, hike, bike and run in. The parking would be closed to all vehicles including horse trailers. I would think that this would be mountain bikers happy.
    Like it or not, this guy has a point. There are plenty of other situations where State Parks as well as other land managing agencies have restricted parking to abate a nuisance or trespass issue. Unlike signs, the guardrail isn't likely to get stolen or vandalized, and once installed, does not need a paid staffer to enforce. Find another place to park, like maybe inside the park.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by williamkurtrose
    Here is the link to the online Petition to Demand a Public Meeting regarding the Twin Rocks Parking Closure.

    http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe....cgi?9880205&1
    Bill. I appreciate your efforts and signed the petition and posted the link on FB. There is another race (high school) on 2/19 btw. (Nice that you didn't intrude on the other racers' efforts, though.)

  58. #58
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    Thank you Harry Callahan. And, to the person who seems to have a serious issue with wanting to park in my neighborhood, there are homes available for purchase close by!

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldk1029
    Thank you Harry Callahan. And, to the person who seems to have a serious issue with wanting to park in my neighborhood, there are homes available for purchase close by!
    Wish I could afford one. And I agree with you; that would annoy me to no end the parade of cars parking on that road (and yes I have parked there many times). Especially in the past 12-18 months as some local groups have staged huge group rides from that location.
    :wq

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    Where else to park?

    I imagine you could park at the head of the road by Auburn folsom rd and ride through the neighborhood. I bet the residents would like that alternative. Maybe there are other spots further up the road past the parking area. I haven't looked recently, but couldn't trail users park in front of the houses along the street if it is cleared for off street parking?

  61. #61
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    liquor store lot, half a block east on douglas from auburn folsom.

    The owner is a pretty cool guy, doesn't seem to mind at all. Go in and grab a drink after the ride and chat him up.

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    Letter to Mrs. Ruth Coleman Director of California State Parks

    Mrs. Colman,

    I am writing you to grieve a decision made by Mr. Ted Jackson of the Gold District to spend $20,000 of our tax money to build a parking barrier at the corner of Twin Rocks and Boulder Road in the Granite Bay area.

    Ted Jackson's decision to spend this money was made simply to appease a neighborhood HOA. I had a conversation with Mr. Jackson several weeks ago regarding this issue and asked him to make his decision to close the long established use of free parking at this site public. I further requested that he give the "opposition" to this plan a chance to attend an advertised and public meeting to explore a more equitable and economical solution to his current barricade plan.

    He responded by stating that he had no intention of holding a public meeting. Because of his response, I am collecting the signatures of Tax Paying Citizens that are demanding the issue of parking at Twin Rocks be handled in an open and transparent manor. Mr. Jackson has chosen to pursue a one sided and expensive solution to this community problem, taking into account only one group's special interest.

    A great deal of the complaints brought to Mr. Jackson by the "Lake View Hills" HOA, have been exaggerated. In fact, some of those very same Home Owners add to the parking and driving problems that they themselves have presented to Mr. Jackson in the form of complaints.

    There have been recent articles published in the Press Tribune regarding the damage caused in Folsom State Park, in particular, an area known as the "Hoffman Property". According to the article, this damage has been blamed on the mountain bike community, a group that happens to use this free parking area. This article is misleading; in fact, most, if not all of the purposeful and illegal trail building and damage on park property was done by the youth that live in the aforementioned HOA.

    Aside from those addressed herein, there are several other issues regarding the parking area that deserve mention. A Chief Officer with the South Placer Fire District has expressed concern with the lack of access to a gated secondary emergency access. At times, this emergency gate is inaccessible due to visitors cars parked in front of the emergency access. The vehicular path of travel from the Twin Rocks approach to this gate is not oriented well to allow emergency vehicles easy access to this gate. The emergency vehicle approach and the gate issue can easily and inexpensively be solved. I have spoken with this South Placer Fire District Chief Officer regarding this issue and am willing to work through the proper channels with him, at my own expense, to help solve the emergency vehicle access problem. That would leave your agency with a small expense to create a guarded alleyway from Twin Rocks to the reconfigured gate.

    Solving this single issue correctly and economically will relieve the CHP and County Sheriff from constant complaints and responses triggered by members of the HOA, all the while permanently securing access to the emergency gate and preserving the limited amount of existing parking.

    I am also willing to present a formal plan to help reduce traffic and other problems that affect those of us that live in and around the Twin Rocks area. I like the neighbors that live on Twin Rocks and am concerned about safe speeds on all of our county roads. The safety of their children and pets from speeding cars should be important to all citizens. Having spent a great deal of time at this location over the past 27 years and nearly nonstop over this past week while collecting signatures, I began to see that at least half of all speeding vehicles on Twin Rocks Road and Boulder Road were from folks that live in that very same HOA or those that have reason to visit the area exclusive of parking at the aforementioned corner.

    There is clearly an opposing side to Mr. Jackson's decision to build a parking barrier at the corner of Twin Rocks and Boulder Road and the signatures I am collecting via petition on the issue will illustrate that. I, along with others who have signed my petition, am willing to assist in finding a fair and reasonable solution to these problems. With open minds, combined with a willingness to cooperate and compromise, we can conserve our State's dwindling financial resources and find equitable and economical solutions to the issues associated with Twin Rocks.

    Respectfully,

    Bill Rose
    (916) 765-0586
    williamkurtrose@yahoo.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldk1029
    Thank you Harry Callahan. And, to the people who seems to have a serious issue with wanting to park in my neighborhood,....
    It seems as though you have a reading coprhension problem. I edited your statement so that it's a correct. It's not your neighorhood, it's the neighborhood that you live in. It's not your park, it's a park that you live next to. You are no more entitled to use that entrance than anyone else. There is a section for people to park at, bummer it may be a nuisance, but t.s., move if you don't like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ldk1029
    .....there are homes available for purchase close by!
    b/c I like where I live, and shouldn't have to move to enjoy a park that my tax dollars help support.

    Here's a thought, find a less densely populated area and move to it. It's no more of a moronic statement then the one you ended with.

  64. #64
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    Just my 2 cents.

    OK I will bite.
    Let me just say that I rarely park here. I ride my bike from home and usually meet my ridding buddies there. So closing this parking spot would force my mountain biking friends to park closer to my home so I would not have to ride alone as far. So, ldk1029. I feel for you, I do honestly. You buy a nice house in a great neighborhood. Steps from the entrance to a great lake with miles and miles of beautiful trails for running, hiking, and cycling. So maybe 10-20 years ago a few people parked there. But since then this has become the third largest metro area in California adding roughly 1.2 million people to the region. Also there has been a huge explosion in outdoor activities like trail running and mountain biking hence making the parking lot much busier. So there I think lays the problem, well one of them. The other problem I think lies with the residents (you). Your post just smells of privilege. I looked at the 33 closest homes on the two intersecting streets. Yup your wrong only 11 have lived there 20 or more years and 22 others have lived there on average of 8 years. You and your husband PAID a lot of money to live in that neighborhood, god really.......who cares. So that entitles you and your neighbors to that gate and no one else unless they use it just like you do. You complain about everything, traffic, garbage, bad language. Traffic is crazy everywhere. You know I would love to close my street so people can not get to Dove wood court for the Christmas lights and so my children can walk threw there and not have to worry about cars. You live next to a "PARK" there is going to be more of everything and I can not believe you are complaining about it.
    I do not know why I am actually writing this because it will not make a difference. Your HOA will win. The State will build there barrier. The organized ride will start closer to my house (yaaa). But what will be sad is another loss for the majority in order to please the minority. This spot will go the way of the park in Carmichael (the name escapes me) were the "neighborhood" complained in the same way and it was shut down. Yes the whole park. Gated and fenced in. Well except for a little pedestrian entrance. Bannister Park in Fair Oaks is also going to go the same way too for the same reasons. Anyways its 3 a.m. and I am rambling and I need to finish my home work. Anyways......FLAME ON!!!! and pick on something other than my spelling and grammar I have herd it all before. I am a knuckle dragger by trade.

  65. #65
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    Nice job. You bring up many very good points. The road that I live on is very heavily used by many of the same people that live on Twin Rocks. They use it, they drive to fast and my wife and I pick up all of the liter left behind in their wake. My dog was hit and killed on this same road. A young boy was struck by a car on his way to school in a cross walk on my road. Two cars containing Sierra College Students returning from a night assignment for there trade school class decided to race down Morgan Place. My road was not wide enough to pass so one of the cars came off the pavement into my 5 acre field attempting to pass the other speeding vehicle of boys. The car now going way to fast looses control and flipped numerous times. I did not call the Police I got up from my warm bed in the dark and went out to see if I could help and was attacked with a tire iron by one of those young men. I'm still waiting for State Parks to build my vehicle barrier so that I might enjoy the home that I paid to much for.

    Bill Rose

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    Clearly this is a very hot issue for all. I am sorry that this issue is causing you all such turmoil, all I can say...is welcome to my world.

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    It is more like "our" world. I hope we can find a solution to this and other problems that we all face as our area attracts more folks.

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    I think we all get that this planned barricade will not limit walking or bike riding entrance to Folsom State Park and that you will now enjoy "your " mostly private entrance, paid for by my tax dollars barricade.

    I have had several hundred conversations with the folks that will be excluded from parking at Twin Rocks and am receiving many private emails in regards to this issue. I would love to have record all the valid and heart felt points of view that these good people share.

    Many folks point out that they purchase State Park Passes, while others have no spare money to "support" Cal State Parks by buying daily or seasonal passes. Some use Twin rocks 3 to 4 times per week others several times per year. Now I would be a more obvious fool to claim any enlightened consensus from those conversations, but I can make one clear statement that was conveyed over and over as I gathered signatures. That this action by state parks is backhanded given that there is no effort to publicise this use of tax dollars to cater to a special interest group.

    Please go to the State Parks web site and read about their mission statement to be open and transparent to the people they serve. Make no mistake about what is going on here and at many other locations near Our Wild Lands, The State of California is spending our money to turn our land into a concession stand to support their salaries and pensions.

    Bill Rose

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    You know guys, I've been riding and hiking at GB for over ten years. I do so at least once a week, consistently. I signed the petition out of principle, but I feel like I have to chime in here.
    On occasion (once or twice a month), I will park at the Twin Rocks turn-out. However, I purchase a State Parks Annual Pass, so I’ve never felt as though I was getting away with anything.
    In the over ten years that I’ve been riding there I have seen a marked increase in the number of riders using not only the Twin Rocks turn-out, but also the Jr. High. Likewise the amount of riders using the park for night riding has increased substantially as well.
    During the winter months the park closes at 6:00 PM. Did you know that? When you are in there after 6:00 PM in the winter you are trespassing.
    Do I use the park after 6:00 PM? Yes. But I use it differently. I came here from San Jose in 1999. Before that, when I, and my group, rode in the local parks in San Jose after hours we had to do so commando-style. Most parks in that area had little to no external parking. And if you did park in a turn-out, or whatever, on a county maintained road, you could expect a visit from the ranger when you were done with your ride and loading up your bike. The rangers would patrol for many hours after closing, and, in some cases, would setup ambushes to catch riders entering or exiting the park at known “back door” entries. While riding we had to be aware of the ranger – looking for headlights – if we saw them, we would to stop riding and turn off our lights until he left. We would stick to trails were we knew we were less likely to be seen. And we started our rides by parking in the nearby neighborhoods and riding into the park with our lights off. We came to the neighborhood quietly and left immediately after our ride.
    When I started riding GB after ours I used the same tactics – as did the occasional other riders I came across while out there. But, over the last few years, the after-hours usage has become so brazen. I see HID lights all over the park. It’s as if none of you even know you are trespassing.
    And then there’s the trail building. Putting that trail up there by the pond is one thing. But building jumps in it? Now horse people and rangers have all the ammunition they need to claim that all mountain bikers are delinquents – building illegal trails, and doing so without regard to the environment, the park regulations or private property. If it was just built as a normal trail, we could have played the he said, she said game with the horses. They would say we built it, we would say they built it. But now it’s obvious that mountain bikers are using the hike/horse only trails illegally to enter and exit that area.
    And with the proximity of that illegal bike trail to the Twin Rocks turn-out, what assumption do you think will be made by the horses and rangers? That all the mountain bikers that park in the turn-out use that as a staging point to access illegal trails? Probably.
    We created the impetus for this closure. And now all any of you can do is be reactive and blame and insult the residents of that street. Preposterous. It’s our own fault. Take this lesson and move on, hopefully not to repeat it at the next great mountain biking resource in this area, wherever that is.
    Instead of petitioning to stop the closure all together, we should petition for a compromise. I.e. why should that turn-out be closed? Why not spend that money to construct a self-registration box? That might curtail some of the access from that side, and appease the residents. It would also bring in additional revenue, and appease the rangers.
    But my guess is that the state parks administrators wouldn’t go for that, because the real reason for the closure doesn’t have anything to do with loss of revenue.
    Last edited by cosmokenney@gmail.com; 02-08-2011 at 11:46 AM.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_Blanco
    OK I will bite.
    Let me just say that I rarely park here. I ride my bike from home and usually meet my ridding buddies there. So closing this parking spot would force my mountain biking friends to park closer to my home so I would not have to ride alone as far. So, ldk1029. I feel for you, I do honestly. You buy a nice house in a great neighborhood. Steps from the entrance to a great lake with miles and miles of beautiful trails for running, hiking, and cycling. So maybe 10-20 years ago a few people parked there. But since then this has become the third largest metro area in California adding roughly 1.2 million people to the region. Also there has been a huge explosion in outdoor activities like trail running and mountain biking hence making the parking lot much busier. So there I think lays the problem, well one of them. The other problem I think lies with the residents (you). Your post just smells of privilege. I looked at the 33 closest homes on the two intersecting streets. Yup your wrong only 11 have lived there 20 or more years and 22 others have lived there on average of 8 years. You and your husband PAID a lot of money to live in that neighborhood, god really.......who cares. So that entitles you and your neighbors to that gate and no one else unless they use it just like you do. You complain about everything, traffic, garbage, bad language. Traffic is crazy everywhere. You know I would love to close my street so people can not get to Dove wood court for the Christmas lights and so my children can walk threw there and not have to worry about cars. You live next to a "PARK" there is going to be more of everything and I can not believe you are complaining about it.
    I do not know why I am actually writing this because it will not make a difference. Your HOA will win. The State will build there barrier. The organized ride will start closer to my house (yaaa). But what will be sad is another loss for the majority in order to please the minority. This spot will go the way of the park in Carmichael (the name escapes me) were the "neighborhood" complained in the same way and it was shut down. Yes the whole park. Gated and fenced in. Well except for a little pedestrian entrance. Bannister Park in Fair Oaks is also going to go the same way too for the same reasons. Anyways its 3 a.m. and I am rambling and I need to finish my home work. Anyways......FLAME ON!!!! and pick on something other than my spelling and grammar I have herd it all before. I am a knuckle dragger by trade.

    The county put no parking signs along Bannister Road which made sense since folks were blocking driveway entrances and it was a safety issue with passagers exiting their cars to cross the street. I totally agree with the counties decision because along Bannister road there are no sidewalks for safe passage into the park. But to the counties credit they reworked the parking area.

    This is nothing more then exclusionary tactics on Ted Jacksons part and lack of facts by the folks that have convinced Mr. Jackson to react.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    ...And then there’s the trail building. Putting that trail up there by the pond is one thing. But building jumps in it? ....
    Hold on there partner,, I doubt very seriously mountain bikers build the jumps let alone the trails. How many mountain bikers you seen lately with a shovel tucked into their Camel Back?? None, that’s what I thought. I'll bet you a warm pile of horse poo that the stuff being built back there is being done by kids in the immediate neighborhood on BMX bikes. It's no effort for them to grab daddy's shovel out of the shed and make a couple of jumps to stick after school. Don’t blame mt. bikers for something that is out of character for the sport.



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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by zon
    Hold on there partner,, I doubt very seriously mountain bikers build the jumps let alone the trails. How many mountain bikers you seen lately with a shovel tucked into their Camel Back?? None, that’s what I thought. I'll bet you a warm pile of horse poo that the stuff being built back there is being done by kids in the immediate neighborhood on BMX bikes. It's no effort for them to grab daddy's shovel out of the shed and make a couple of jumps to stick after school. Don’t blame mt. bikers for something that is out of character for the sport.



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    Completely agree Zon, we ran into this very issue at Brown's Ravine, Mountainbikers were blamed for the jumps that were clearly built for and used by BMX'er from the local neighborhoods, if I recall you posted about that as well.

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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by zon
    Hold on there partner,, I doubt very seriously mountain bikers build the jumps let alone the trails. How many mountain bikers you seen lately with a shovel tucked into their Camel Back?? None, that’s what I thought. I'll bet you a warm pile of horse poo that the stuff being built back there is being done by kids in the immediate neighborhood on BMX bikes. It's no effort for them to grab daddy's shovel out of the shed and make a couple of jumps to stick after school. Don’t blame mt. bikers for something that is out of character for the sport.



    .
    That trail was clearly built by bikers of one sort or the other. When you go to Twin Rocks, or anywhere in the park for that matter, do you see kids on BMX bikes? I mostly see mountain bikers. I'm sure thats what the horses see too.

    In fact, they say as much in this article in the Granite Bay newspaper, even going as far as saying they constantly see mountain bikers with shovels: http://granitebaypt.com/detail/168318.html

    The horses said it, it's in the paper, so it must be true, right?

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by zon
    Hold on there partner,, I doubt very seriously mountain bikers build the jumps let alone the trails. How many mountain bikers you seen lately with a shovel tucked into their Camel Back?? None, that’s what I thought. I'll bet you a warm pile of horse poo that the stuff being built back there is being done by kids in the immediate neighborhood on BMX bikes. It's no effort for them to grab daddy's shovel out of the shed and make a couple of jumps to stick after school. Don’t blame mt. bikers for something that is out of character for the sport.



    .
    It's a characterisation that all humans on bikes are "mtn bikers" It shows Ted Jackson shallow understanding and his agenda.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    That trail was clearly built by bikers of one sort or the other. When you go to Twin Rocks, or anywhere in the park for that matter, do you see kids on BMX bikes? I mostly see mountain bikers. I'm sure thats what the horses see too.

    In fact, they say as much in this article in the Granite Bay newspaper, even going as far as saying they constantly see mountain bikers with shovels: http://granitebaypt.com/detail/168318.html

    I don’t care what they see,, 90% of them couldn't point out a mt. bike from a row of cruisers, BMX, road, or tricycle if their life depended on it. I have never seen a mt. biker packing a shovel,, I have seen plenty of local kid BMX'ers with shovels doing exactly what you see here. Prove me wrong,, get video of a mt. biker building jumps that very, very few mt. bikers would even have the skill to stick,, it's bmxers!

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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    In fact, they say as much in this article in the Granite Bay newspaper, even going as far as saying they constantly see mountain bikers with shovels.
    That is the proof that equestrians will lie their fat butts off in order to usurp lands that we are paying for. They invent non-existing conflicts - or provoke them, they lie about "damage" while destroying trails and covering them in feces.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    You know guys, I've been riding and hiking at GB for over ten years. I do so at least once a week, consistently. I signed the petition out of principle, but I feel like I have to chime in here.
    On occasion (once or twice a month), I will park at the Twin Rocks turn-out. However, I purchase a State Parks Annual Pass, so I’ve never felt as though I was getting away with anything.
    In the over ten years that I’ve been riding there I have seen a marked increase in the number of riders using not only the Twin Rocks turn-out, but also the Jr. High. Likewise the amount of riders using the park for night riding has increased substantially as well.
    During the winter months the park closes at 6:00 PM. Did you know that? When you are in there after 6:00 PM in the winter you are trespassing.
    Do I use the park after 6:00 PM? Yes. But I use it differently. I came here from San Jose in 1999. Before that, when I, and my group, rode in the local parks in San Jose after hours we had to do so commando-style. Most parks in that area had little to no external parking. And if you did park in a turn-out, or whatever, on a county maintained road, you could expect a visit from the ranger when you were done with your ride and loading up your bike. The rangers would patrol for many hours after closing, and, in some cases, would setup ambushes to catch riders entering or exiting the park at known “back door” entries. While riding we had to be aware of the ranger – looking for headlights – if we saw them, we would to stop riding and turn off our lights until he left. We would stick to trails were we knew we were less likely to be seen. And we started our rides by parking in the nearby neighborhoods and riding into the park with our lights off. We came to the neighborhood quietly and left immediately after our ride.
    When I started riding GB after ours I used the same tactics – as did the occasional other riders I came across while out there. But, over the last few years, the after-hours usage has become so brazen. I see HID lights all over the park. It’s as if none of you even know you are trespassing.
    And then there’s the trail building. Putting that trail up there by the pond is one thing. But building jumps in it? Now horse people and rangers have all the ammunition they need to claim that all mountain bikers are delinquents – building illegal trails, and doing so without regard to the environment, the park regulations or private property. If it was just built as a normal trail, we could have played the he said, she said game with the horses. They would say we built it, we would say they built it. But now it’s obvious that mountain bikers are using the hike/horse only trails illegally to enter and exit that area.
    And with the proximity of that illegal bike trail to the Twin Rocks turn-out, what assumption do you think will be made by the horses and rangers? That all the mountain bikers that park in the turn-out use that as a staging point to access illegal trails? Probably.
    We created the impetus for this closure. And now all any of you can do is be reactive and blame and insult the residents of that street. Preposterous. It’s our own fault. Take this lesson and move on, hopefully not to repeat it at the next great mountain biking resource in this area, wherever that is.
    Instead of petitioning to stop the closure all together, we should petition for a compromise. I.e. why should that turn-out be closed? Why not spend that money to construct a self-registration box? That might curtail some of the access from that side, and appease the residents. It would also bring in additional revenue, and appease the rangers.
    But my guess is that the state parks administrators wouldn’t go for that, because the real reason for the closure doesn’t have anything to do with loss of revenue.


    You make sound like we all use this are to ONLY access illegal trails, not the case.'
    If you do not like people driving down a public street, and parking in a public area, to access a public park, you should have moved into Los Lagos, gated community.

    If the HOA doesn't want people parking at that spot have them get it on the ballot, and if it passes, THE HOA could pay for it. THATS the beef. I know of many places to park and still hit that trail, and others will find them too.

    So make like horse poop and hit the trail

  78. #78
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    I know who built the illegal Trails

    I know who built the trails and I spoke to park rangers nearly 2 years ago about the issue and nothing was done to catch the responsible people. They road into the area on mostly BMX type bicycles with shovels and rakes on one occasion, with my wife as a witness, we saw a group of teens leave the "Hoffman" park property with tools over their handle bars heading up Boulder Road to their homes in Lake View Hills. The press tribune printed what LBHA told them to print and the blame was placed on the shoulders of the MTB community at large. Couple that with the night ridding and the increase use of Twin Rocks Parking and you have a perfect fire storm to launch a 20K dollar project to restrict non local residents from parking at that corner. Many of us outsiders have a long history if established use at Twin Rocks and participate in the clean up and litter control. Up until the the news paper article and the mention of elderberry habitat damage the State Parks and other local authorities ignored LVH HOA. The irony is that the illegal trails on the Hoffman property were built and largely used by teens from the homes of this immediate community.

    This is a no brainer for the State Parks and perfectly fits into their comprehensive plan to concessionize every last acre of the American River Water Shed. It is not about flippen Elderberry plants nor really even the parking congestion at Twin Rocks.

    Look around folks. At every possible entry point into our wild lands the Parks Management System has placed toll kiosks. They are saying "it is not sustainable" referring to our wilderness lands but what is really meant is that their government jobs, wages, vacations and retirement pensions are not sustainable. Aside from the men and women in uniform that collect the garbage in the park, "all and I mean all " of the work is either done by contract labor or gracious volunteers. If you see a ranger they will be doing cop work no more than 25 feet from their staff vehicles.

    I will finish with one more thought make that two more thoughts. What the hell is wrong with night riding? The guys that participate in that form of riding do so because they have to work during the day to pay parks salaries and to buy Poppy Passes and drive to damn fast down Twin Rocks Road so they can catch a few moments in the beautiful park that we all own and love.

    Lastly, every last one of us no matter how we get into the park nor what we do to enjoy it need to be considerate of the people that live near those entry points.

  79. #79
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    Some ways up, someone suggested putting a self-pay box in the lot instead of a guardrail. That's a pretty good suggestion. It would cost less than the guardrail, be less likely to get vandalized than no-parking sings, and generate a little revenue for the park. It would almost certainly cut down on the parking there as well, which should make the neighborhood happy.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
    Some ways up, someone suggested putting a self-pay box in the lot instead of a guardrail. That's a pretty good suggestion. It would cost less than the guardrail, be less likely to get vandalized than no-parking sings, and generate a little revenue for the park. It would almost certainly cut down on the parking there as well, which should make the neighborhood happy.
    I am a sucker for such boxes. I almost always pay.

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    I think there are many possible solutions that my alleviate some of the neighborhood complaints and address the Parks need for more money. I also think that the State is pretty sure of the correctness of their current plan.

    Send this suggestion to Ted and request a public forum to explore some of these good ideas. I have been doing all that I can and have sent a letter to the Director of State Parks, Mrs Ruth Coleman with a plea to review Ted decision.

    I have also requested a meeting with her and conformation of her receipt of my letter. I have also been look for pro bono legal help to possibly get an injunction to stop the barrier until a public meeting can be scheduled.

    I have also been standing at the corner gathering signatures as much as time will permit. I have gathered nearly 450 signatures but still feel like I am alone in this challenge.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    ......In the over ten years that I’ve been riding there I have seen a marked increase in the number of riders using not only the Twin Rocks turn-out, but also the Jr. High. Likewise the amount of riders using the park for night riding has increased substantially as well..
    Are you upset b/c people are using the spots that you also enjoy? Not sure what point your trying to make. Especially since this was your 1st post.


    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    ...During the winter months the park closes at 6:00 PM. Did you know that? When you are in there after 6:00 PM in the winter you are trespassing. Do I use the park after 6:00 PM? Yes. But I use it differently..
    So you are knowingly commiting a crime, and chastising people for doing the same. Oh wait, you do it differently. Guess what Cosmo, anyone in the park in off hours is tresspassing, horseback, hiking, mountain bikers, residents who choose to enjoy the trail after hours, all guilty. btw, how do you use it differently?


    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    I came here from San Jose in 1999. Before that, when I, and my group, rode in the local parks in San Jose after hours we had to do so commando-style. Most parks in that area had little to no external parking. And if you did park in a turn-out, or whatever, on a county maintained road, you could expect a visit from the ranger when you were done with your ride and loading up your bike. The rangers would patrol for many hours after closing, and, in some cases, would setup ambushes to catch riders entering or exiting the park at known “back door” entries. While riding we had to be aware of the ranger – looking for headlights – if we saw them, we would to stop riding and turn off our lights until he left. We would stick to trails were we knew we were less likely to be seen. And we started our rides by parking in the nearby neighborhoods and riding into the park with our lights off. We came to the neighborhood quietly and left immediately after our ride...
    Wow, more hypocrassy! Where you using those trails diffrently too? Is that your justification for breaking the law, your different?


    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    When I started riding GB after ours I used the same tactics – as did the occasional other riders I came across while out there. But, over the last few years, the after-hours usage has become so brazen. I see HID lights all over the park. It’s as if none of you even know you are trespassing...
    Again, not sure about your point. Are you mad b/c there is an increase in people, or are you assuming they are unaware they are tresspassing? You seem to be mad that people are doing the exact same thing you are doing!


    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    And then there’s the trail building. Putting that trail up there by the pond is one thing. But building jumps in it? Now horse people and rangers have all the ammunition they need to claim that all mountain bikers are delinquents – building illegal trails, and doing so without regard to the environment, the park regulations or private property. If it was just built as a normal trail, we could have played the he said, she said game with the horses. They would say we built it, we would say they built it. But now it’s obvious that mountain bikers are using the hike/horse only trails illegally to enter and exit that area.
    And with the proximity of that illegal bike trail to the Twin Rocks turn-out, what assumption do you think will be made by the horses and rangers? That all the mountain bikers that park in the turn-out use that as a staging point to access illegal trails? Probably....
    Did you not read William's post? They have no proof. If we were afforded due process, they would have nothing. Instead, they have someone with an angenda attempting to close an access point. This is a peoples country. Unforetunatly our government allows it to be a special interest country. Instead of attempting to help the fight, your telling us to throw in the towel, b/c it's our fault. No sir, I don't litter, swear, loiter, tresspass or cause problems at this location. You can't say the same can you!

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    I have helped create the impetus for this closure. And now all any of you can do is be reactive and blame and insult the residents of that street. Preposterous. It’s partly my own fault. I will take this lesson and move on, hopefully not to repeat it at the next great mountain biking resource in this area, wherever that is.....
    I edited this part of your statement for accuracy. Been riding at this point for over 10 years, and this was your 1st post huh! Yep, I will def. insult a non-mtber for coming on here and trying to justify this lack of due process that we are being denied. That resident has nothing positive to add to our community, and the account should be deleted. Yours should be too!

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    Instead of petitioning to stop the closure all together, we should petition for a compromise. I.e. why should that turn-out be closed? Why not spend that money to construct a self-registration box? That might curtail some of the access from that side, and appease the residents. It would also bring in additional revenue, and appease the rangers..
    Have you been paying attention, thats what is being attempted.

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmokenney@gmail.com
    But my guess is that the state parks administrators wouldn’t go for that, because the real reason for the closure doesn’t have anything to do with loss of revenue.
    See, you actually get what is going on here, yet you have the balls to call me or anyone else out for putting the few crybaby residents in check. Frank Union!

  83. #83
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    How about more MTB legal trails for the park?

    With the increase in bike riding, we need more legal access.

    I've suggested (multiple times) that they consider opening up the old water flume trail
    (Horseshoe bar to Beeks Bight) for legal bike access.
    The trail has excellent visibility, plenty wide for "multi-use trail".
    The only issue is that its under water for about 1/2 the year.


    Also the section of trail from Brown's ravine to Sweetwater. Rarely ridden by horses.

    Finally the dirt trails that parallel the American River bike trail. The section around lake Natoma has *some* horse usage, but the sections down by Sac State and Old Sacramento are almost never used.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by windsurf2xs
    How about more MTB legal trails for the park?

    With the increase in bike riding, we need more legal access.

    I've suggested (multiple times) that they consider opening up the old water flume trail
    (Horseshoe bar to Beeks Bight) for legal bike access.
    The trail has excellent visibility, plenty wide for "multi-use trail".
    The only issue is that its under water for about 1/2 the year.


    Also the section of trail from Brown's ravine to Sweetwater. Rarely ridden by horses.

    Finally the dirt trails that parallel the American River bike trail. The section around lake Natoma has *some* horse usage, but the sections down by Sac State and Old Sacramento are almost never used.

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  85. #85
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by windsurf2xs
    How about more MTB legal trails for the park?

    With the increase in bike riding, we need more legal access.

    I've suggested (multiple times) that they consider opening up the old water flume trail
    (Horseshoe bar to Beeks Bight) for legal bike access.
    The trail has excellent visibility, plenty wide for "multi-use trail".
    The only issue is that its under water for about 1/2 the year.


    Also the section of trail from Brown's ravine to Sweetwater. Rarely ridden by horses.

    Finally the dirt trails that parallel the American River bike trail. The section around lake Natoma has *some* horse usage, but the sections down by Sac State and Old Sacramento are almost never used.
    I like this idea. I wonder if there's any endangered beetles on those trails, though, that are only threatened by mountain bike usage? ;-)

  86. #86
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    Sweat the small stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by yzfrider
    So you are knowingly commiting a crime, and chastising people for doing the same. Oh wait, you do it differently. Guess what Cosmo, anyone in the park in off hours is tresspassing, horseback, hiking, mountain bikers, residents who choose to enjoy the trail after hours, all guilty. btw, how do you use it differently?

    Wow, more hypocrassy! Where you using those trails diffrently too? Is that your justification for breaking the law, your different?
    yzf, I don't want to turn this into a big debate. I wasn't trying to justify my after ours use of the park. I'm also not mad at anyone. I just wish some of the other groups of night riders who also use the park after hours would practice a little discretion. Like I said if you night right out there, ride where you are less likely to be seen. That way the rangers, and horses and residents won't think there are hordes of people using the park illegally. If they see tuns of us riding at night then they are probably going to naturally assume that mountain bikers are doing the other illegal things too, like building illegal trails. All the little things like this add up. Then one day they barricade a convenient entrance. When that doesn't work, the next thing to go will be all mountain biking in the park.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by williamkurtrose
    I think there are many possible solutions that my alleviate some of the neighborhood complaints and address the Parks need for more money. I also think that the State is pretty sure of the correctness of their current plan.

    Send this suggestion to Ted and request a public forum to explore some of these good ideas. I have been doing all that I can and have sent a letter to the Director of State Parks, Mrs Ruth Coleman with a plea to review Ted decision.

    I have also requested a meeting with her and conformation of her receipt of my letter. I have also been look for pro bono legal help to possibly get an injunction to stop the barrier until a public meeting can be scheduled.

    I have also been standing at the corner gathering signatures as much as time will permit. I have gathered nearly 450 signatures but still feel like I am alone in this challenge.
    With nearly 450 signatures you are sure not alone!

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by windsurf2xs
    Finally the dirt trails that parallel the American River bike trail. The section around lake Natoma has *some* horse usage, but the sections down by Sac State and Old Sacramento are almost never used.
    dozens if not hundreds of trail joggers use that. Don't get me wrong, I ride that out to some hidden fun, but "almost never used" ? I counted at least 30 people on it between the guy west bridge and watt ave today.

    That stuff is used........ALOT!

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by windsurf2xs
    Finally the dirt trails that parallel the American River bike trail. The section around lake Natoma has *some* horse usage, but the sections down by Sac State and Old Sacramento are almost never used.
    Never used by horses, maybe, but trust me, like Red says that is HEAVILY used.

    In addition, from Hazel Ave West, that's no longer part of the state park and is in fact owned and operated by the County of Sacramento, Parks and Recreation Department.
    I.E. the one with dam near negative budget. There was a mandated parkway masterplan update started nearly 15 yrs ago, with a proposed demonstration loop near Cal Expo for MTB use of dirt trails. That update has remained in limbo for nearly 10yrs because of the lack of $$. And that is not ging to change for a VERY long time.
    -Aaron G.

    "Before D.W., "anti-squat" was referred to as pedal feedback."

  90. #90
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    you can create a pretty good dirt + singletrack + jump loop, but you're hopping off your bike every 100yards for a hiker/runner. Gets really annoying.

  91. #91
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    Day use fee

    Most of you probably already know this, but I thought I'd post this. I was under the incorrect assumption that the day use fee is an entrance fee. But it's just a parking fee. Here's what the District Superintendant had to say when I contacted the State:

    "The State has the authority to charge a walk-in, bike-in, etc. fee, but generally has not implemented such fees.* Basically the day use fee is a parking fee.* If you walk-in or bike-in there is no charge."

  92. #92
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    $90 State Parks Poppy Pass...one of the best investments I've made over the past three years. Damn thing pays for itself fast and it's a good excuse for me to ride, paddle, hike, and walk the dog more. I stopped parking at Twin Rocks and Cavitt years ago when cars were getting broken into daily....still do. Most of our night rides start at Folsom Bike or BP for the added mileage.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by windsurf2xs
    How about more MTB legal trails for the park?

    With the increase in bike riding, we need more legal access.

    I've suggested (multiple times) that they consider opening up the old water flume trail
    (Horseshoe bar to Beeks Bight) for legal bike access.
    The trail has excellent visibility, plenty wide for "multi-use trail".
    The only issue is that its under water for about 1/2 the year.


    Also the section of trail from Brown's ravine to Sweetwater. Rarely ridden by horses.

    Finally the dirt trails that parallel the American River bike trail. The section around lake Natoma has *some* horse usage, but the sections down by Sac State and Old Sacramento are almost never used.

    The old water flume trail is 100% LEGAL for bikes i was told that by a park ranger.

  94. #94
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    alright let me "back peddle".....
    very little horse or hiker use of the dirt trails WEST of campus commons golf course.
    (ie Cal Expo west to Old Sac). About the only trail users in that area are the homeless.


    and I don't believe the folsom lake flume trail (Horseshoe bar to Beeks Bight) is bike legal.
    The "no bikes" signs are still up at Beeks Bight.

    But if anyone with direct connection to Folsom Lake rec area park ranger (or park docuementation) can say otherwise I'd love to see it.

    I suggested to the park ranger who *used* to read MTBR that they consider opening it to bikes. He was very interested in the suggestion, but then........<<>>
    Probably got laid off. (sigh)

    Much of the frustration felt by bikers is the glacial pace of change in park policy.
    (theres no global warming in the park service)

  95. #95
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    To anyone with a serious point of view about the issue of the pending Parking Closure at Twin Rocks. Please contact me if you are willing to speak to a news paper reporter about your feelings regarding the Barricade that State Parks is going to construct.

    Contact me and I will give you the reporter's contact info.

    Bill Rose

    williamkurtrose@yahoo.com
    916 765-0586
    916 652-5386

    Time is of the essence!

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