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  1. #1
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    GB Twin Rocks Guard Rail Project

    Sounds like State Parks is planning to install some sort of a guard rail system along Twin Rocks and Boulder Roads to eliminate the informal parking lot at that location that is used to access Granite Bay.

    THIS link shows the basic idea for the work. I understand this project could get underway in the very near future.
    Last edited by Rich H.; 01-26-2011 at 08:55 PM.

  2. #2
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    Not all that surprised. Parks are hurting for money, that lot is used very heavily and I'm sure the locals aren't thrilled with it. Actually when I found out about it I couldn't believe it was legal to park there.
    :wq

  3. #3
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    Next they will try to find someway to close down the parking at Cavitt Jr High.
    Then we won't be able to park at BP in Folsom to access Lake Natomas.
    Whats next. Are they going to close down the parking lot at Folsom Bike & Grind?

    They won't get an extra dime by closing down Twin Rocks. The park users will just go elsewhere. And for what, a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of guardrail?
    Nice, tax dollars well spent
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  4. #4
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    There will always be the liquor store lot! The owner is cool and knows his scotch!

  5. #5
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    Well said....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality
    Next they will try to find someway to close down the parking at Cavitt Jr High.
    Then we won't be able to park at BP in Folsom to access Lake Natomas.
    Whats next. Are they going to close down the parking lot at Folsom Bike & Grind?

    They won't get an extra dime by closing down Twin Rocks. The park users will just go elsewhere. And for what, a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of guardrail?
    Nice, tax dollars well spent
    Exactly. And, let's not do anything about opening up existing, local trail systems (Browns Ravine) to take some pressure off the Granite Bay system, too.

  6. #6
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    This closure was in response to neighbors near the twin rocks lot complaining for several years and asking it to be closed. Most of the complaints were about trash, noise, loitering, etc. It is not about revenue generation.

  7. #7
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    I'm surprised that it didn't happen sooner. We had a good thing going there (i.e. free parking next to some of the better singletrack in the park). I have friends in the local neighborhood, and they have indicated that their homeowner’s associations are very upset about the current situation at the parking area for a couple of years. I have talked with both Jim Michaels at State Parks and Placer County concerning the closure. They indicated that the Twin Rocks area was never intended to be used as a major staging area, as is currently the case. The Park will be building guard rail closing off the informal parking area in April after the CEQA process is complete. I am not sure that there is much that can be done to fight the closure. The parking area is not a formal access point per the Park’s General Plan, and the Park wants/needs the park use fees given the current budget deficits. The Park has met the local equestrian groups (LBHA), and after an initial protest they are supporting the closure. The horsey peep’s use this area just as much as us.

    State Parks will be meeting with mountain bike groups (probably FATRAC) to discuss the closure, but I don’t see the Park changing their mind on this one. All of the behavior that the Park is using for justification of for the closure (access point for night riding after the park is closed, noise, litter, congestion, unauthorized trail building, speeding on Twin Rocks, public urination, large groups of riders congregating after rides) is hard to argue with and happening at the parking area on a regular basis. Sad to see this location closed, but there are lots of other places to access the Park’s trail system.

  8. #8
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    It is too bad Prop 21 didn't pass. It would have made this loss of the parking area at Twin Rocks a moot point. The state would have had plenty of cash to put the guardrails in and we all would have been able to drive into the park and use the internal lots for free.

    Simple Google search showed this nice little document that complains about illegal trail use as usual by horsepeople, but it has a nice little proposal to put in the guard rails.

    http://www.garlic.com/~lbha/LBHABike...dateFinal1.pdf

    More on the horsepeople-centric "Parkwatch" website regarding this. http://www.parkwatchreport.org/article.html?pub=alert

    I'm completely against the illegal trail building activities in areas not opened to bikes, but this seems like such a petty way to go after mountain bikers, closing down their easy access. I don't usually get out there during "night riding" times of the day, but the times I do get out there I really have not seen much in the way of trash problems (see more horse droppings!) and everyone acts rather responsible and cool. Reports of hordes of mountain bikers have to be unfounded, as there is not room to have that many vehicles park to have the reported "70 cars with bikers" along Boulder or Twin Rocks road. Overblown BS to be sure.

    I don't see the horsepeople as having to give up much by the blocking off of this parking area by the guardrails. I never see that many trailers parked at that site anyway, probably a max of three on a weekend day. I think this is just another idea by the horsepeople as a way to get the damn mountain bikers off THEIR trails! Remove easy access and they will stop coming must be the idea.
    Last edited by Bokchoicowboy; 01-28-2011 at 10:31 AM.

  9. #9
    S2B
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    My understanding from Park staff is that this closure is more about the problems and overuse at the parking area than about revenue for the Park. They are level-headed enough to understand that people who choose to park at a free parking area are going to find another free parking location. There are plenty of other locations to access the Park without paying the entrance fee.

  10. #10
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    pulled up there once and the ranger (she was HOT by the way) was ticketing EVERY vehicle blocking the entrance, or with even an inch over the pavement.

    The huge diesel + ginormous horse trailer took up like nine spots though.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man
    The huge diesel + ginormous horse trailer took up like nine spots though.
    Did it get nine tickets?

  12. #12
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    why guardrail?

    Wouldn't be cheaper (and more practical) to just put up "No Parking" signs? They can get their revenue from the fines.
    Normally guardrail is used to protect from roadway hazards ... I don't think an open dirt runout area is considered hazardous in anyone's book. Just a thought...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe
    Did it get nine tickets?
    zero

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man
    pulled up there once and the ranger (she was HOT by the way) was ticketing EVERY vehicle blocking the entrance, or with even an inch over the pavement.

    The huge diesel + ginormous horse trailer took up like nine spots though.
    pics Adrian, we need PICS!

  15. #15
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    P.O. Box 2326, Loomis CA 95650
    November 8, 2010
    Superintendent Ted Jackson
    Folsom Lake State Recreation Area
    7755 Folsom-Auburn Road
    Folsom, CA 95630
    Dear Ted:
    This is a follow-up to our letter dated August 24, 2010, concerning the illegal bike trails
    located on the Hofmann property that is now controlled by State Parks. We were very
    pleased to see the opening in the fence at mile 38.5 closed, and that barriers were erected
    by the Folsom Lake Trail Patrol under the guidance of a State Parks Ranger. However the
    barriers and the fence were all torn down within a week. As of yesterday, the illegal downhill
    trail (inside the Hofmann property) had not been fenced or blocked off, so it is still accessible
    to mountain bikers if they enter at Twin Rocks/Boulder Rd. LBHA is requesting that this trail
    also be blocked.
    The building of illegal bike trails is not just happening in FLSRA. Many other parks across
    the nation are having the same problems. An official at a park in the northwest stated that
    most of the builders had no knowledge of how to build trails, how to maintain the
    environment or provide safety for its users. The illegal trails caused much environmental
    damage to the area. The trails took only a short time to build, but it took a long time to
    restore the area after they were removed. Had the bikers gotten official permission to build
    the trail, it would have had to go through all the work of CEQA and other permit
    requirements. All safety issues for not only the bikers but other users would have been
    considered.
    Looking at the Conditional Use Permit for the Hofmann property, it shows that all the 44 lots
    had Valley Elderberry Longhorn Beetle (VELB) Habitat on them, In addition, a 1980
    document states that there may be archeological sites on the Hofmann property. While the
    1980 report is confidential, the abstract does state that the 659 acres of land which
    previously included the Hofmann 82 acres had prehistoric and historic findings.
    With this in mind, it is requested that when trails are developed in the trail master plan that
    those--if added to the Hofmann area--be limited to Equestrian/ Pedestrian trails as they
    would not be as damaging to the environment as a technical bike trail. As winter rains start,
    the illegal bike trails will cause a lot of run-off and environmental damage.
    Some ideas to help prevent illegal trails from being built in the area of the Hofmann property
    which is now part of FLSRA ,might include:
     Build a barrier or short fence along the right-of-way of Twin Rocks/Boulder where the
    entrance to the park is located. There have been some Wednesday evenings when
    as many as 70 cars with bikers have been parked along the road. The neighbors
    report hearing the hoots and hollers of the riders as they ride the illegal trail. Besides
    the parking, the noise is also an inconvenience to the neighbors that live there. The
    authorities have been called at times about the parking. If the entrance was only for
    local walk-ins, it would deter bikers from coming. A “No Parking” barrier would also
    penalize horse trailers, but they could make arrangements to park at the local stables
    along that road or go into the Granite Bay entrance to the park and utilize the
    Horsemen’s Assembly Area.
     Signage: It is known that signs come down faster than they go up. However, a sign is
    needed stating: ILLEGAL TRAIL—RIDING OR USING THIS TRAIL CAN CAUSE
    DAMAGE TO THIS SENSITIVE AREA—VIOLATORS WILL BE CITED.
    The area of mile 38 to 38.5 is known to be an area of illegal trails. It is also known that
    mountain bikers ride Tuesday-Thursday evenings as well as during daylight hours. With
    that in mind, a ranger should be assigned to patrol that area more frequently during
    times of heavy mountain bike use.
    In closing, as winter approaches and the ground gets wetter, more illegal trails will be
    built. They need to be stopped before too much damage is done. Since there is VELB
    habitat in the form of elderberry shrubs confirmed by the US Fish & Wildlife biologist, it is
    requested that State Parks allow only the existing equestrian/pedestrian trails to remain
    in the Hofmann property and not create any new multi-use trails for reasons stated
    above.
    Sincerely,
    Kathy Dombrowski
    LBHA advisor to the board
    Loomis Basin Horsemen’s Association
    .
    Copy To:
     Jim Michaels FLSRA, State Parks
     Scott Nakaji, FLSRA, State Parks
     Brian Moses, FLSRA, State Parks
     Ruth Coleman Director Ca State Parks
     US Fish & Wildlife-Office of Law Enforcement
    Attn: Marilee Brown, Special Agent 2800 Cottage Way, Room W-2928 Sacramento, CA
    95825

    This person person who wrote this letter has there head up there a$$, first of all the comment about the 1980 confidential report is B.S the only way to harm the elderberry beetle is to cut down elderberry trees or use chemicals, our eat them. their actually more illegal horse trails out there.2) In the letter kathy mentions ther were 70 cars with bikes on them i'm calling bull$--t on this one you can't park more than 15-20 cars out there. there is a couple of running clubs out at night. how can a horse or pedestrian or dogs be any different than bikes. as a matter of fact what about the horse crap that runs into the lake? this were kids swim.it sounds like blm will take over soon. they do not close trails to anyone except moterized vehicles.this attitude some horse people have the same as the south in the 1960's (blacks to the back of the bus) or woman should be barefoot & pregnant and there vote does not count.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by napa
    Kathy Dombrowski
    LBHA advisor to the board
    Loomis Basin Horsemen’s Association
    That's all you need to know about how much validity this sad rant has.

    Horses destroy trails much faster and much more then bicycles. That's a well proven fact. Anybody who is riding those dangerous animals, pulverizing trails and defecating over them, has no say about preservation of our parks. This is just a bunch of well-off slave animal owning snobs trying to exclude everybody from public lands.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    That's all you need to know about how much validity this sad rant has.

    Horses destroy trails much faster and much more then bicycles. That's a well proven fact. Anybody who is riding those dangerous animals, pulverizing trails and defecating over them, has no say about preservation of our parks. This is just a bunch of well-off slave animal owning snobs trying to exclude everybody from public lands.

    I like the way you think
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  18. #18
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    We ride the Hofmann property all of the time. Never seen anyone but bikers up there. For the most part, the trails are very smooth and tight because of the fact that horses don't venture up there, the one exception being the trail down to the pond which has a waterline running down the middle of it. The jump line, if you can find it, is very well built and is only a danger to those that ride it. After exiting the jump line and the Hofmann property, you do have to ride the Pioneer trail, but for no more than 20 feet before you get to the multiuse trail. This old hag can beat her drum all she wants but it's not going to stop anyone from riding this area as there are many ways in and out and you can access many other non designated trails from this area. Reading an article like the one above only makes me want to Chum their trails more. Some day they will thank us for smoothing out their precious trails. As for the Valley Elderberry Beetle, give me a break, it's an F'ing beetle. I've dealt with this issue for years being involved in development and it's ridiculous in my opinion that such an insignificant insect can cause so many issues with development. It's not like we're out there clear cutting acres worth of brush and destroying large swaths of growth. In conclusion, waste all the money you want trying to keep us out. All this is going to accomplish is creating less crowded conditions for those of us who will continue to ride.

  19. #19
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    are you talking about the blue pipe part of the trail? that's great part of GB!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chapped (o) Hole
    We ride the Hofmann property all of the time. Never seen anyone but bikers up there. For the most part, the trails are very smooth and tight because of the fact that horses don't venture up there, the one exception being the trail down to the pond which has a waterline running down the middle of it. The jump line, if you can find it, is very well built and is only a danger to those that ride it. After exiting the jump line and the Hofmann property, you do have to ride the Pioneer trail, but for no more than 20 feet before you get to the multiuse trail. This old hag can beat her drum all she wants but it's not going to stop anyone from riding this area as there are many ways in and out and you can access many other non designated trails from this area. Reading an article like the one above only makes me want to Chum their trails more. Some day they will thank us for smoothing out their precious trails. As for the Valley Elderberry Beetle, give me a break, it's an F'ing beetle. I've dealt with this issue for years being involved in development and it's ridiculous in my opinion that such an insignificant insect can cause so many issues with development. It's not like we're out there clear cutting acres worth of brush and destroying large swaths of growth. In conclusion, waste all the money you want trying to keep us out. All this is going to accomplish is creating less crowded conditions for those of us who will continue to ride.

  20. #20
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    Yep

  21. #21
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    and theres so much more back there!

    Funny that we all ride it.

    lol horsies

  22. #22
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    maybe i need to explore some more.. i've gone from the top of blue pipe all the way to a couple trails that run into a neighborhood and it isn't the los lagos trail. not sure where they end up

  23. #23
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    More on the guard rail: http://www.garlic.com/~lbha/Guard-ra...RocksFeb11.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by napa
    Kathy Dumbass-rowski
    LBHA advisor to the board
    Loomis Basin Horsemen’s Association
    She's a legendary nut job at the different trail planning meetings I've been to. But, she's tireless in her efforts to keep bikes off her trails.

    More reality from the LBHA website: (http://www.garlic.com/~lbha/)

    PIONEER EXPRESS TRAIL

    The Pioneer Express Trail, because of its narrowness, lack of escape routes for passing, lack of sight lines, steepness, and extreme danger to anyone pushed off the trail, has always been designated a hiker/equestrian footpath only. Ted Jackson, Superintendent of Folsom Lake SRA, emailed this week, "There have been no changes made to the rules and regulations regarding the Pioneer Express Trail. All prohibitions remain in force."

    Here is what you can do if you encounter bikes in this area.
    1. Nicely correct them, and say the Superintendent of the Park Ted Jackson has clarified the rules this week because of information that was given out in error.
    2. Show the bikers the closest place they may exit the trail, or turn them around so they may go back the way they came. Ask them to walk their bikes so they present less of a danger to other trail users who do not expect them. After they are gone, call Dispatch so if the Rangers are in the area, they can warn them at the trailhead.
    3. If you encounter resistance, please call the Dispatch numbers on your Park Watch card immediately. DO NOT ARGUE OR CONFRONT, even though you are right.
    4. If they threaten you, call 911 and stay on the line until you feel comfortable. Take a cell phone picture. Try to remember identifying information, or record it or text into your phone.
    I wonder why she/they never mention the 3' deep trail bed on Pioneer? It won't be too much longer that the horsey riders feet will be dragging on the edges of the trail.

    Lastly,
    1/15/2011

    TRAIL WORK DAY

    A work day to remove the illegal bike jumps and do trail work on the illegal bike trail in the area of Mile38 and 38.5 is being set by State Parks. As soon as we have a date, we will be asking for volunteers, horsemen as well as other trail users to help. if you would like to help, please contact lbha@garlic.com
    Man they (she) spends a lot of time trying to rid the world of bikes!!! http://www.garlic.com/~lbha/BikeTrailPhotoLinks.htm
    Last edited by Empty_Beer; 02-02-2011 at 08:03 PM.

  24. #24
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    My Name is Bill Rose I live in the area of Folsom Lake but drive about 3 miles to access the lake at Twin Rocks and Boulder Road and have done so for almost 28 years. Yesterday I had a petition professionally printed to gather signatures requesting "Folsom State Parks" host an open public meeting to discuss stopping their plan to spend $20K of our tax dollars to exclude us from an established "right of use" to park in this area.

    I am looking for any and all help in getting the word out and with collecting signatures. I will be attempting to put an electronic petition on line so that we can use the internet to grow this effort.

    I have read all the post found here tonight and agree with most of what is being said. Because the State Parks thinks that they will increase their revenue stream it only took 30 local residents to get them to spend 20K of your money.

    I plan to try to stop their actions if possible. If you want to help, contact me via this web address-- williamkurtrose@yahoo.com you may also call me on my cell (916) 765-0586

    I gathered about 40 signatures by my self this afternoon in only 2 hours with your help we could get to one thousand in several weeks. Thanks

    By the way TED JACKSON is the Folsom Sector Superintendent that is pushing for this barricade at Twin Rocks. Please feel free to contact him at (916) 988-0205 or email at
    TJACK@parks.ca.org

    He needs to hear how displeased we are!
    Last edited by williamkurtrose; 02-04-2011 at 01:17 PM.

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    would you consider helping to collect signatures to force the State into a public forum?

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