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  1. #1
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    Fines? in Marin Headlands

    Anyone know what the fines are for riding illegal trails (no bikes) in the Marin Headlands? Speaking of SCA and some others...a hiker (whom I gave the right of way) told me last nite that my bike would be confiscated...is this true?

    Anyone recieved a ticket or actually been chased down by a ranger?

  2. #2
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    they will confiscate your bike AND the ticket used to be $250, but I think it's gone up.

    Here's an idea... don't ride your bike on illegal trails in the headlands.

  3. #3
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    This is so ridiculous; makes me want to leave Marin. When will our community change?

  4. #4
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    talked to a hiker on the coastal trail pantoll to muir beach, sunday.

    she said that a ranger gave tickets to two bikers riding heather cutoff, a hiker only trail.

    Didn't sound like their bikes got taken, though.

  5. #5
    Coors, the american beer.
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    your bike will only get confiscated if they catch you
    AZ has the best mountain bike gathering ever

  6. #6
    Wildcard Pilot
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    The Marin Headlands are and have been under seige for a LONG time. Being concerned about fines is an extremely short sighted way of looking at the situation. Poaching in Marin and leaving tracks on hiking only trails for anti-bicycling community activistis to see helps no one. There are MANY trails in Marin that were once ridable but now are not. Getting caught and either getting a ticket, getting your front tire taken, or your bike all depends on where you are, what you are doing, and the mood of the ranger. Please do us all a favor and behave in Marin.

    Ask Dan'ger or some of the other people on this forum who have been fighting for opening trails in the Bay Area. The hard work of 10 people can be undone by one person in an instant.

    Off soapbox now...

  7. #7
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    Good job! The Big Picture . . .

    Most of the Marin Headlands USED to be legal. Maybe it was just the anti bike sentiment in general. Maybe it was people complaining that bikes blew past them on narrow trails. Hard to say. But State Parks are coming around, and there are numerous singletracks that are POTENTIALLY slated for bike access (have you been paying attention?) Let's not forget Coastal View trail -a REAL GEM. This would be a good time to put our best face forward. Let's work to get & KEEP the new trails legal. When you see hikers, pretend that they're your Mom. Avoid HIGH PROFILE scofflaw action. As others have stated, we don't need to provide ammo to the naysayers. The trails under consideration MIGHT be decided in the next few months --let's not blow that opportunity. (A quick search will get info on this, if you tuned in late)

    & thanks to the posters already on board here.
    I like to bike.

  8. #8
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by velocipus
    they will confiscate your bike AND the ticket used to be $250, but I think it's gone up.

    Here's an idea... don't ride your bike on illegal trails in the headlands.
    Holy cow! That's serious. How do you get your bike or wheel (what if you use bolt on's) back?! I've been reading the thread on the East Bay situation. Is it worth it at all to fight the tickets even if it costs more?

    Again, if you're new to the area, you have no idea about this stuff. The signs are not always easy to see. When I first came here I accidentally went on the Coastal Trail by Pirates Cove and really enjoyed it but realized later it was hiker only.

    Going down the Coastal Trail from the top of McCullough is suicide if you go at any speed because how narrow it gets from over growth. They need to trim that our someone is going to get hit.

    Also Old Springs Trail (iirc) down to TenValRd can be pretty sketchy. Fortunately, I've never run into a she beast there yet.

    Here's a pdf/link to the trails - http://www.nps.gov/goga/maps/pdf/map-mahe.pdf

    I find the trails technically boring but it's the closest place I can ride. The views are good when they aren't foggy.

    Beggars can't be choosers
    Last edited by Slobberdoggy; 09-19-2007 at 10:46 PM.

  9. #9
    aka baycat
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    Some great trails out in the Headlands. Only gone up Middle Green Gulch, one way singletrack of course. And looked admiringly at Pirates Cove, Slacker, SCA, etc. Thank heavens for led


    Dennis. I thought the fine was less, sub $100 for poaching GGNRA, as compared to MMWD (Tam) around $250 from what I have heard. Some of the stuff out there is to sweet!

  10. #10
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    Totally agree

    Totally agree with these posts. The best way to get trails to open is to respect the other people that enjoy them and by giving back to the community by doing some trail restoration work or joining another volunteer cause. This is how it works here in the Bay.

  11. #11
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    Headlands are federal, not state lands

    I'm down Santa Cruz way, but have ridden the legal headlands trails a couple times. Beyond what has been said already in this thread, its worth pointing out that the Marin Headlands are administered by the National Park Service. Since they are overall not very bike friendly, I think it is a good thing that any trails are open there, even fire roads. It's also worth pointing out that because the area is a national park, our actions there will have impacts on trail access nationally.

  12. #12
    TANSTAAFL
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    not 100% sure about this, but we were at a National Park a while ago, and the Ranger was carrying a gun, so I asked him about it, thinking it was odd. The Ranger pointed out that national parks are federal, and thus he was a federal agent, and was permitted to carry a gun.

    Something to think about.....


    Jim
    "It is a bad sign when people stop identifying themselves with the county and start identifying with a group."

  13. #13
    Paper or plastic?
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
    I'm down Santa Cruz way, but have ridden the legal headlands trails a couple times. Beyond what has been said already in this thread, its worth pointing out that the Marin Headlands are administered by the National Park Service. Since they are overall not very bike friendly, I think it is a good thing that any trails are open there, even fire roads. It's also worth pointing out that because the area is a national park, our actions there will have impacts on trail access nationally.
    Boy, this is a crazy world when riding a bike on some dirt is considered some kind of dangerous behavior. I'm betting that the rangers see evidence of illegal trail riding all over the US. They might not enjoy it, but if anything it just goes to prove that there is a need there. If people weren't riding those trails, then the NPS would be able to claim that the situation is just fine the way it is.

    I say ride the trail, just don't get caught...
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Boy, this is a crazy world when riding a bike on some dirt is considered some kind of dangerous behavior. I'm betting that the rangers see evidence of illegal trail riding all over the US. They might not enjoy it, but if anything it just goes to prove that there is a need there. If people weren't riding those trails, then the NPS would be able to claim that the situation is just fine the way it is.

    I say ride the trail, just don't get caught...
    Hi Zorg,

    Nowhere did I say that I or the NPS thinks mtn bike riding is dangerous, and obviously there is a need for more trails.

    HC

  15. #15
    Paper or plastic?
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
    Hi Zorg,

    Nowhere did I say that I or the NPS thinks mtn bike riding is dangerous, and obviously there is a need for more trails.

    HC
    HC,

    I misspoke (or mistyped I guess). I just meant to say that something must have gone seriously awry somewhere when riding a bike on dirt is some kind of a crime. It just does not make any sense whatsoever. Now, as to whether "poaching" is good or bad for the overall bike access can be debated ad nauseam without ever reaching an agreement.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    HC,

    I misspoke (or mistyped I guess). I just meant to say that something must have gone seriously awry somewhere when riding a bike on dirt is some kind of a crime. It just does not make any sense whatsoever. Now, as to whether "poaching" is good or bad for the overall bike access can be debated ad nauseam without ever reaching an agreement.
    Not that I'm advocating either way but considering that mountain bikers make up roughly 50% of bay area trail users (so I've read) yet have access to what? Less than 25% of trails? (so I'm guessing), I wonder what would happen if all mtb'rs simply started to ignore anti-biking policies? Currently, the minority holds the power and maintains greedy, outdated policies. At what point are the wardens of the land to be considered inept and no longer functioning in the interest of the greater good and the majority? Obviously, "the proper channels" are not enough to get things done.

    Ah.. nevermind me. I have issues with the bay area trail policies when the people who use them the least, keep the trails to themselves and do little to maintain them. While those who use them the most are more than happy to maintain and share -- yet are kept from "legal" access.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    HC,

    I misspoke (or mistyped I guess). I just meant to say that something must have gone seriously awry somewhere when riding a bike on dirt is some kind of a crime. It just does not make any sense whatsoever. Now, as to whether "poaching" is good or bad for the overall bike access can be debated ad nauseam without ever reaching an agreement.
    It's cool. I agree with your above statement 100%.

    D. Ambrose,

    You make some good points about the percentages of folks who use the trails, and I've started seeing those numbers used in access proposals and trails planning.

    I personally don't think you can make broad characterizations about land managers. So much depends on the particular circumstances. You have managers who are for, against, or neutral on bike access, and you sometimes have elected officials who may not care one way or another, but who are responsive to their constituents, or perceived constituents. And even where you have a manager who is pro-bike, he may be bound by existing regulations to maintain a status quo we disagree with.

    I think its all about education. Educate the managers, elected officials, and the park users who are ambivalent. Show them that we are a major force for good, dedicated park lovers, users, and supporters, and that our use is compatible with and supports the parks mission. We shouldn't waste our time with folks who will never agree with us.

  18. #18
    tastes like chicken
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
    I personally don't think you can make broad characterizations about land managers. So much depends on the particular circumstances. You have managers who are for, against, or neutral on bike access, and you sometimes have elected officials who may not care one way or another, but who are responsive to their constituents, or perceived constituents. And even where you have a manager who is pro-bike, he may be bound by existing regulations to maintain a status quo we disagree with.

    I think its all about education. Educate the managers, elected officials, and the park users who are ambivalent. Show them that we are a major force for good, dedicated park lovers, users, and supporters, and that our use is compatible with and supports the parks mission. We shouldn't waste our time with folks who will never agree with us.
    Harry, these are all great points.

    Land Managers may have been hostile to bikes in the past but that seems to be changing as they recognize that bikers are becoming their major park users. As the old guard of land managers retire, younger folks who are more open minded to bike access are taking their place. In Santa Cruz county, the State Parks District Superintendent and the UCSC Land Manager will be retiring this fall. I'm hoping the replacements will be more friendly to mountain biking.

    The personal views of the Land Managers are only one dimension to the land access issue. Another is advocacy. There are a minority of anti-bike advocates and a minority of pro-bike advocates. The anti-bike advocates are currently more entrenched and are much more politically savvy than the pro-bike advocates. That is changing as the pro-bike advocates become more organized and build the political relationships with politicians, land managers and other stake holders.

  19. #19
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    Naturally politics is influenced by $. But we're getting richer (individually and industry-wise). Although after I buy my next bike I'll be much poorer.

  20. #20
    It's about showing up.
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    Be a part of the solution

    Making off-handed estimates on how many more mtb trail users there are than any other hold no weight at all. It is far more involved and demanding than that. Do something substantial. Support your local trails counsil. Join their effort:
    East Bay http://btceb.org
    Marin http://www.btcmarin.org
    San Mateo/Santa Clara Co http://www.romp.org
    Santa Cruz http://www.mbosc.org

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