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  1. #1
    utilitarian biker
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    Upset F U specialized for going after Epic Designs Adventure Cycling Gear

    Again a big corporation is going after a small grassroots company over a trademark dispute. Last time it was Monster energy drink vs rock art brewery. See this you tube story.


    I say it is ludicrous. This time Specialized is going after Epic Designs that makes awesome bike packing bags in Alaska. They think "Epic Designs" will cause customer confusion and weaken their trademark rights over their Epic line of bikes. WEAK.
    http://epiceric.blogspot.com/2009/12...y-contest.html

    http://www.epicdesignsalaska.com/

    I say lets let the special idiots know that this type of practice is unacceptable.

    Here is the link for customer feedback at specialized. Tell em that you think this is unacceptable.


    Long live long rides.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Medic
    Again a big corporation is going after a small grassroots company over a trademark dispute. Last time it was Monster energy drink vs rock art brewery. See this you tube story.


    I say it is ludicrous. This time Specialized is going after Epic Designs that makes awesome bike packing bags in Alaska.
    http://epiceric.blogspot.com/2009/12...y-contest.html

    http://www.epicdesignsalaska.com/

    I say lets let the special idiots know that this type of practice is unacceptable.

    Here is the link for customer feedback at specialized. Tell em that you think this is unacceptable.


    Specialized has been doing this for years. They sued Mountain Cycle out of existence for producing the "Stump Town" CX bike.

    They sued WTB for the Epicwolf tire.

    They sued Stratos shocks for a design stratos invented.

    They sue and sue and sue for designs they believe are rightfully theirs.

    But how did Specialized get their start? They stole the design for their first mountain bike by shipping a Charlie Kelley/Gary Fisher "Mountain Bike" off to asia to be mass produced and called it the Stump Jumper.

    Yeah Specialized!
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  3. #3
    organically fed
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    It's a perpetration by the Man to keep a brother down.

  4. #4
    ballbuster
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    YEah, like another poster said on the blog....

    ... Specialized can suck it. They won't get another dime out of my pocket. I don't even think I would buy one of their bikes used for fear of being associated with them in any way shape or form.

    Plus, I'm gonna bad mouth them every chance I get.

    They can kiss my ass right in the crack.

    I wrote my nasty-gram to them already.

  5. #5
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    They're going to blow this guy up. Either the case will fail or the guy will change his company name, but the exposure he's received already (I've seen this thread in multiple forums thus far) will get him out there. Before those threads, I'd never heard of this person/company. If he responds correctly, and can handle new demand, he'll be rocking.

    Blessing in disguise?
    :wq

  6. #6
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    Didn't Specialized get sued by Fuji a while back and that's why Fuji now uses their FSR in their mountain bikes. If I remember correctly it had something to do with the Roubaix. I'm trying to find something about it, but coming back empty handed. I did see that Specialized was sued by Stan's though. Thankfully I do not work for a Specialized dealer.

  7. #7
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    This is beyond BS....yeah I know ....almost every company on this planet (guess I should narrow it down to the US of A) is doing the same thing as long as they have deep enough pockets, but I do care about cycling in particular and this is pissing me off royally. I am no longer buying any of the Big S*** products! AND I am spreading the word....

    I wouldn't even care if they went after some other big corporation...say one of the other 2 Big S corporations in the cycling industry, that at least would be a level playing field, but this is simply just abuse of the legal system.

  8. #8
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    I thought they dropped the case against him and let him do it.......like a month or two ago?

    ?!?

  9. #9
    On MTBR hiatus :(
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man

    I thought they dropped the case against him and let him do it.......like a month or two ago?
    Dunno, but his "Name My Company" blog entry is dated Christmas Day '09.
    speedub.nate
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  10. #10
    "Its All Good"
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    Who is REALLY surprised by this move by the BIG S? Oh no one....

    So people, if it urkes you, vote with your feet and do not support the BIG S.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  11. #11
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    I hope none of you use Microsoft products either since they got their start exactly the same way

  12. #12
    ballbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratpick
    I hope none of you use Microsoft products either since they got their start exactly the same way
    ... as little as possible. Open Office rocks... well... it's at least free for non-commercial use. I use a Mac much of the time, but Apple is just as bad.

  13. #13
    Just Ride.
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    Every company is just as bad.

  14. #14
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    I have some of Eric's bags. Top notch, and a pleasure to work with. I'll have to see if I have any 'S' gear in the stable - maybe some gloves and clothing - but thankfully no bikes.

    The Rock Art incident was a classic case of net support. Forums lit up with the legal BS from the energy drink company, blogs picked it up. Facebook groups were formed, the local media and then the national media picked it up. Local distributors pulled their swill off the shelves... and in the end the brewer and the megacorp came to terms...

    BS, and I wish Eric the best. Hopefully he'll keep his name, sully 'S's, and gain a whole new crop of customers... (guess I should order up a few bags now before he is swamped...)

  15. #15
    Birthday Collector
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    Message sent to the Big "S" customer feedback.

    If you have to change your name - how about "Epicalized Design Adventure Gear"? Or maybe "Stumpalized..."
    R.I.P. Corky 10/97-4/09
    Disclaimer: I sell and repair bikes for a living
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man
    I thought they dropped the case against him and let him do it.......like a month or two ago?

    ?!?
    are you thinking of the rock art brew vs. Monster energy case? That was dropped after consumer backlash. I think thats the intention of making everyone aware of the big S.

    For me, I haven't bought anything S (new) for the above reasons, and several other.. But my commuter is an S bike I got used.

  17. #17
    wg
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    Big part of the reason I don't use their products over the years and my different bike purchases. Can I patent or trademark "Special Ed"? Then I can sue them for infringement and brand weakening too. Specialized Attorneys = Nimrods.

    Did a search for "Epic Designs" and came up with another hit Spec should go after: One of the documentaries in the Start Wars III DVD is called "Epic Designs for an Expanding Universe"

    FYI, LinkedIn has some other contact info including corporate counsel: http://www.linkedin.com/companies/sp...cle-components
    Last edited by wg; 12-29-2009 at 10:10 AM.
    Don't harsh my mello

  18. #18
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    I think one of the only ways to truly effect change in this country or any other is to vote with your wallet. If you don't like what Specialized is doing, do not buy their products. I have mixed feelings because I know some really good people that work at Specialized. They have a genuine love of bikes and cycling. Unfortunately, I think many times the company's business practices leave a lot to be desired.

  19. #19
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    why shouldn't a company who has invested millions of dollars be concerned with a company, who is trying to ride their coattails? if i had a multi-million dollar company, i would also go after copycats.

  20. #20
    aka baycat
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    What happens when I name my kid Enduro?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by baycat
    What happens when I name my kid Enduro?

    will you be making a profit off of your child named enduro, based on hi/her name?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcruz
    will you be making a profit off of your child named enduro, based on hi/her name?
    With a name like Enduro, how could you not?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcruz
    why shouldn't a company who has invested millions of dollars be concerned with a company, who is trying to ride their coattails? if i had a multi-million dollar company, i would also go after copycats.

    Exactly, if you invest millions in a brand/name you would be an idiot not to protect it. It may seem unfair in a case such as this, but if you let one rock slide, the whole hill can come down.

    Specialized as a brand is known world wide. People buy Specialized product because they recognize the brand and associate it w/ killer bikes and products.

    Do you think Nike lets anyone use their "swoosh" logo, or Gatorade their lightning bolt, or Ford the name "Mustang" for a car, or the UCI their rainbow stripes, or the International Olympic Commitee their circle logo? I don't think so. There are reasons for copyright laws and the likes. Look at China, you can get all kinds of fake knock-off crap there. And it is just that, crap. In the modern global economy a brand identity can be just as important as the product. Sometimes this may seem unfair to the little guy, but that's business.

    Case in point, Specialized made a jersey that said "Lunch Time Worlds" and had the UCI rainbow stripes on it. It arose from the weekly Specialized lunch ride in Morgan Hill. The UCI found out and Specialized can no longer make the jersey. No tears were shed.

    If you are not going to buy their product, and bad mouth a company because they are protecting their investment, that is pretty dumb. I am going to continue riding my sick new Specialized full suspension bike. You should stick to that steel hardtail made 15 yaers ago and please pull over when I come blasting by.

  24. #24
    Weird huh?
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    Done:

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARider
    Exactly, if you invest millions in a brand/name you would be an idiot not to protect it. It may seem unfair in a case such as this, but if you let one rock slide, the whole hill can come down.

    Specialized as a brand is known world wide. People buy Specialized product because they recognize the brand and associate it w/ killer bikes and products.

    Do you think Nike lets anyone use their "swoosh" logo, or Gatorade their lightning bolt, or Ford the name "Mustang" for a car, or the UCI their rainbow stripes, or the International Olympic Commitee their circle logo? I don't think so. There are reasons for copyright laws and the likes. Look at China, you can get all kinds of fake knock-off crap there. And it is just that, crap. In the modern global economy a brand identity can be just as important as the product. Sometimes this may seem unfair to the little guy, but that's business.

    Case in point, Specialized made a jersey that said "Lunch Time Worlds" and had the UCI rainbow stripes on it. It arose from the weekly Specialized lunch ride in Morgan Hill. The UCI found out and Specialized can no longer make the jersey. No tears were shed.

    If you are not going to buy their product, and bad mouth a company because they are protecting their investment, that is pretty dumb. I am going to continue riding my sick new Specialized full suspension bike. You should stick to that steel hardtail made 15 yaers ago and please pull over when I come blasting by.
    If this were "Special-Ice Bikes" or something like that I would agree with you but what you're saying is that Specialized owns the word "Epic", which is ridiculous. Me thinks your bro-deal might be clouding your judgement.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by baycat
    What happens when I name my kid Enduro?
    It would be real funny if he grew up with that name and became a winning pro racer for Cannondale, LOL.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus
    If this were "Special-Ice Bikes" or something like that I would agree with you but what you're saying is that Specialized owns the word "Epic", which is ridiculous. Me thinks your bro-deal might be clouding your judgement.
    Apperantly SpecialEd owns the words "Epic" "Stump" and a few others.

    Remember when Cannondale copy writed "Free ride?"

    Pretty soon we won't be able to speak without paying a licensing fee.
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  28. #28
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    Re the original post about Specialized,
    This is really thin at best. Epic Designs is making this stuff for bikes, but any moron could tell just from the logo it's not Specialized.

    Since it's so thin, this more of a PR nightmare for Specialized than any real loss in revenue or brand dilution. The bigger the PR nightmare becomes for Specialized, the more they could think twice about doing it again.

    This is just a symptom of the bigger problem of "sue anyone" for any little thing.
    Last edited by ziscwg; 12-29-2009 at 11:21 AM.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  29. #29
    Now with More Wood
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    I hate it when that happens. I'm going after this guy to get my screen name back...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails F U specialized for going after Epic Designs Adventure Cycling Gear-icemans-truck.jpg  


  30. #30
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    You know, I saw this and initially got kind of riled up. Then I did some research and found that it's really much ado about nothing (except to Epic Designs, of course... though I can't find any indication anywhere on the web about them being sued by S).

    Everyone here is all wound up that the big guy is suing the little guy but in reality, the bike industry seems to be a bunch of whiney, sniveling snots who can't help but sue each other over anything and everything. Lemond v Trek. Trek Bicycles v Trek Winery. Specialized v... well, pretty much everyone. SRAM v Hayes. Stan's v Specialized.

    I suspect if Epic Designs had the name first and had become a large company, they'd have sued Specialized when they introduced the Epic.

    Personally, I think it's stupid - from the laws that allow companies to trademark common words, to the companies that exploit those laws, to the bully lawyers who pounce on the opportunity to target weaker (read smaller) companies, to the judges who don't rule those laws illegal and slam the lawyers for perpetuating the cycle. There is absolutely no common sense in this area of law. Epic Designs has no similarity to the Epic bike in style, logo or anything. Should be tossed as frivolous. When the Jacksonville Jaguars team formed, their logo did look like the Jaguar car hood ornament and company logo. Valid. Stumptown bike vs Stumpjumper bike? Too close to a registered, established brand. Valid.

    Patents are a different thing. Technical and, theoretically, provable that one invention used the work of another. Except software, which, to me, seems a bit wrong.

    In the end, it's just business as usual for Specialized and/or any other company. Any of the boutique brands that everyone is so proud of would, no doubt, do the same thing if they are able to pay for the lawyers to pursue and protect what they feel is their rightful property.

    Is Specialized more aggressive than the norm? Probably. Does it leave a bad taste in my mouth? Definitely. Will it affect my next bike purchase. Yep... but not in the absolute "I'll never buy a S again" more along the lines of they won't be an automatic (I have had numerous S bikes over the past 10 years because they just fit me and are usually a pretty good value). I will look first at other brands and compare them and S won't have the 'tie goes to S" kind of advantage. But in the end, if they have the best product for me, at the best value, I'll still buy one.

  31. #31
    The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh
    Valid. Stumptown bike vs Stumpjumper bike? Too close to a registered, established brand. Valid.
    Google Stumptown.......lots of companies with that name. I'm not a Specialized hater but I wouldn't run out to buy their latest and greatest.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicknam...egon#Stumptown

    Stumptown was coined in a period of phenomenal growth in Portland after 1847. The city was growing so rapidly that the stumps of trees cut down to make way for roads were left until manpower could be spared to remove them. In some areas, the stumps remained for so long that locals painted them white to make them more visible, and used them to cross the street without sinking into the mud.[15] In more modern terms, Stumptown is humorously used as Portland's nickname for the city's lack of tall skyscrapers, the highest being only 546 feet.[16] There are other U.S. cities nicknamed Stumptown as well.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    Google Stumptown.......lots of companies with that name. I'm not a Specialized hater but I wouldn't run out to buy their latest and greatest.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicknam...egon#Stumptown

    Stumptown was coined in a period of phenomenal growth in Portland after 1847. The city was growing so rapidly that the stumps of trees cut down to make way for roads were left until manpower could be spared to remove them. In some areas, the stumps remained for so long that locals painted them white to make them more visible, and used them to cross the street without sinking into the mud.[15] In more modern terms, Stumptown is humorously used as Portland's nickname for the city's lack of tall skyscrapers, the highest being only 546 feet.[16] There are other U.S. cities nicknamed Stumptown as well.
    That was the whole point of the Mountain Cycle Stump Town - this was when Mountain Cycle was bought and moved to Portland. The Stump Town was a limited product CX bike made for some local racers.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails F U specialized for going after Epic Designs Adventure Cycling Gear-stumptown.jpg  

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  33. #33
    the train keeps rollin
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    Last time I tried a specialized product, I was truly dissapointed, nough said.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus
    If this were "Special-Ice Bikes" or something like that I would agree with you but what you're saying is that Specialized owns the word "Epic", which is ridiculous. Me thinks your bro-deal might be clouding your judgement.

    Just as ridiculous as Nike owning "swoosh", Fox Racing owning the "fox head", Campbells Soup owning the phrase "mmm, mmm, good", Coors owning "the silver bullet", it goes on forever...

    I don't exactly agree with the practice, but it has been going on for a long time and is widely recognized. Entire companies exist for the sole purpose of checking to see whether a word or phrase is already copy right protected. Big companies know this and do the research to make sure they are not infringing. Little companies don't have the resources, or don't care. That is why they get sued and lose.

    I bet if you made some new product (or a website) and plastered "MTBR" all over it and started making $ Francois would be all over you. It is the world in which we exist.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARider
    Just as ridiculous as Nike owning "swoosh", Fox Racing owning the "fox head", Campbells Soup owning the phrase "mmm, mmm, good", Coors owning "the silver bullet", it goes on forever...

    I don't exactly agree with the practice, but it has been going on for a long time and is widely recognized. Entire companies exist for the sole purpose of checking to see whether a word or phrase is already copy right protected. Big companies know this and do the research to make sure they are not infringing. Little companies don't have the resources, or don't care. That is why they get sued and lose.

    I bet if you made some new product (or a website) and plastered "MTBR" all over it and started making $ Francois would be all over you. It is the world in which we exist.
    You're not parsing the phraseology. Specialized produces a Stump Jumper and a line of bikes called FSR, a subset of which is called "Epic."

    Specialized argues that any use of the word Epic or Stump with regards to bicycles infringes on their copyrights.

    This is ridiculous since stumps are part of nature and every day vernacular. And speaking of vernacular, when's the last time one of us described a ride as "epic?"
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles
    This is ridiculous since stumps are part of nature and every day vernacular. And speaking of vernacular, when's the last time one of us described a ride as "epic?"
    They'll go after IMBA next.
    :wq

  37. #37
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    What we need to do is to somehow get Disney lawyers to sue Specialized. They're the real wolves...
    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles
    You're not parsing the phraseology. Specialized produces a Stump Jumper and a line of bikes called FSR, a subset of which is called "Epic."

    Specialized argues that any use of the word Epic or Stump with regards to bicycles infringes on their copyrights.

    This is ridiculous since stumps are part of nature and every day vernacular. And speaking of vernacular, when's the last time one of us described a ride as "epic?"
    The target of the Big S's ire is pretty narrow and direct, having to do with companies in the same industry trying to make a profit off their trademark, not forum members asking others to join them on an "epic" to jump over some "stumps."

    On a related note, I'm starting a new clothing line called Twin Six-Six-Six. I'm a one-man company (the "little guy"); there is another company that has a similar name, but they're a huge two-man outfit (double my size!). Hope they don't give me any grief. I'm mean, we're all bros who enjoy drinking IPAs, right?

    I hope they leave me alone until I am as big as they are--if not bigger. That's fair, right? I won't cannibalize their sales or anything. If I end up more popular than they are, no big deal. We're all bros, remember? Just chill. It's only money, right? Who cares. Don't call the lawyers, man. We're all in the bike biz, made up of socks with witty statements-wearing, boutique bike brand t-shirt-sporting, obscure-microbrew drinking brothers.

  39. #39
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    Just a quick background on Epic Designs. Eric's initials are EP, so when putting this on his bags it was easy come up with his business name. He himself does some hellacious trips and has earned the right to use the name on his gear, which is much more aptly named the Specialized bike. If he made frames, I could see their point, but nobody looking for a Specialized Epic is going to mistakenly buy one of Eric's great bags.
    Vote with your wallet.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life
    Google Stumptown.......lots of companies with that name. I'm not a Specialized hater but I wouldn't run out to buy their latest and greatest.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicknam...egon#Stumptown

    Stumptown was coined in a period of phenomenal growth in Portland after 1847. The city was growing so rapidly that the stumps of trees cut down to make way for roads were left until manpower could be spared to remove them. In some areas, the stumps remained for so long that locals painted them white to make them more visible, and used them to cross the street without sinking into the mud.[15] In more modern terms, Stumptown is humorously used as Portland's nickname for the city's lack of tall skyscrapers, the highest being only 546 feet.[16] There are other U.S. cities nicknamed Stumptown as well.
    No argument that Stumptown would trump Stumpjumper. If, for example, Mountain Cycles had built and trademarked the Stumptown bike before Spec had the SJ, how much do you want to bet they'd have sued Spec and won, hands down.

    But Stumptown is a general name referring to a town - Portland, specifically. Put it on a bike and it does sound like it might be a Spec product in the family of the Stumpjumper.

    And I'd wager that Mountain Cycles knew that on some level and were banking on flying under the radar with some name recognition. Their trump card (that didn't play) was the old nickname of Portland. They took a gamble on a company well known for its active and aggresive trademark protection... and lost .

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman2058
    I hate it when that happens. I'm going after this guy to get my screen name back...
    Cool. And after him you can go after this guy too. Good luck!


  42. #42
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    Buy Eric

    If you need a good bag for your next epic trip,buy one of Erics. Quality is the game.
    Let your wallet do the talking.


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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails F U specialized for going after Epic Designs Adventure Cycling Gear-getattachment.jpg  

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    skiaah is probably closest to the mark - trademark and copyright laws are as much the driver as anything. I won't speculate on whether or not Specialized is a bully or just overly cautious, but as a product manager for a big company (not in the bike industry) I know from experience that companies tend to be very aggressive in chasing down potential trademark infringements because the law basically says that if you fail to enforce your trademarks then they become invalid. In other words, if you let a few 'little guys' slide because no rational person would confuse them, your case for going after a genuine infringement down the road could be weakened. Legal teams are by nature conservative and risk-averse, so better to err on the side of caution and sue everyone than risk losing your brand later on.
    And no, I don't have any Specialized Bikes. I'm pretty sure it was Specialized who paid for the porta-john at the Demo parking lot until the ravers ruined it for everyone recently - if so then IMO that counts for something too. OTOH, if you only want to ride bikes made by small companies because big companies are all evil, then have fun on your steel 9er HT - I'll be out on my Nomad enjoying the benefits of global supply chains and economies of scale.
    "You are by far the most interesting single-serving friend I have ever met."

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    Amen Brother!

    Quote Originally Posted by ARider
    Exactly, if you invest millions in a brand/name you would be an idiot not to protect it. It may seem unfair in a case such as this, but if you let one rock slide, the whole hill can come down.

    Specialized as a brand is known world wide. People buy Specialized product because they recognize the brand and associate it w/ killer bikes and products.

    Do you think Nike lets anyone use their "swoosh" logo, or Gatorade their lightning bolt, or Ford the name "Mustang" for a car, or the UCI their rainbow stripes, or the International Olympic Commitee their circle logo? I don't think so. There are reasons for copyright laws and the likes. Look at China, you can get all kinds of fake knock-off crap there. And it is just that, crap. In the modern global economy a brand identity can be just as important as the product. Sometimes this may seem unfair to the little guy, but that's business.

    Case in point, Specialized made a jersey that said "Lunch Time Worlds" and had the UCI rainbow stripes on it. It arose from the weekly Specialized lunch ride in Morgan Hill. The UCI found out and Specialized can no longer make the jersey. No tears were shed.

    If you are not going to buy their product, and bad mouth a company because they are protecting their investment, that is pretty dumb. I am going to continue riding my sick new Specialized full suspension bike. You should stick to that steel hardtail made 15 yaers ago and please pull over when I come blasting by.
    I couldn't have said it any better. If anybody comes up with a new product that is great, revolutionary or great, than it will sell. They shouldn't need to use name recognition for some free exposure. Something they definitely will benefit from this situation already. Specialized, or anybody for that matter, should protect what they have spent millions developing and marketing from anybody trying to ride off of their trademarks or likeness of any of their designs or names. They should have done a little more research before deciding on what to name their business. Thats business though.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARider
    Exactly, if you invest millions in a brand/name you would be an idiot not to protect it. It may seem unfair in a case such as this, but if you let one rock slide, the whole hill can come down.

    Specialized as a brand is known world wide. People buy Specialized product because they recognize the brand and associate it w/ killer bikes and products.

    Do you think Nike lets anyone use their "swoosh" logo, or Gatorade their lightning bolt, or Ford the name "Mustang" for a car, or the UCI their rainbow stripes, or the International Olympic Commitee their circle logo? I don't think so. There are reasons for copyright laws and the likes. Look at China, you can get all kinds of fake knock-off crap there. And it is just that, crap. In the modern global economy a brand identity can be just as important as the product. Sometimes this may seem unfair to the little guy, but that's business.

    Case in point, Specialized made a jersey that said "Lunch Time Worlds" and had the UCI rainbow stripes on it. It arose from the weekly Specialized lunch ride in Morgan Hill. The UCI found out and Specialized can no longer make the jersey. No tears were shed.

    If you are not going to buy their product, and bad mouth a company because they are protecting their investment, that is pretty dumb. I am going to continue riding my sick new Specialized full suspension bike. You should stick to that steel hardtail made 15 yaers ago and please pull over when I come blasting by.
    To be sure, Specialized should be concerned that, in Alaska, its brand name is lacking street (or is it "trail"...or both?) cred...Most of the Specialized bikes up here have training wheels on them.

    Be assured that Alaska has plenty of full suspension mountain bikes....it just that very few, if any of them, are Specialized. Because we actually have mountains up here, we have to select rides that will consistently get you to the middle of nowhere and back!

    Eric, Epic Design's founding father, serves as an example for all of us. A university-trained engineer, he dropped out of the corporate rat-race and started a small business in his basement with a pair of scissors and a sewing machine. He has painstaking designed, tested and engineered the supply/manufacturing chain for a small catalog of brilliantly realized soft gear.

    I and many other endurance athletes from around the world have used his products during multi-day races along the Iditarod Trail that included traversing the Alaska Range and enduring forty-below zero temperatures- adventures for which I would NEVER consider using any Specialized products.

    If consumers are mistaking Epic Designs for a Specialized product.....Specialized should consider themselves serendiptously blessed. None of us up here are confused!

  46. #46
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    Sorry to say but that's "CAPITALISM" for you. This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This country feeds on CAPITALISM. Until we as Americans see the light, it will never change. CAPITALISM SHOULD BE ILLEGAL!!!

    CAPITALISM is one one humanity's greatest failures...

  47. #47
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    Yet capitalism made possible much of what we're doing today, sitting on our homes internet-jockeying about our chosen brands and companies, versus riding some 50-year old design that the government mandates that everyone must ride.

    Heck, riding big-tired bikes, technological changes to the classic road/cruiser geometries to adapt to riding mountains, suspension, etc. All innovations due to R&D motivated by competition instilled by.. oh.. capitalism.

    While personally I believe it's a stretch to be hitting a small company named Epic just because you have a bike line named Epic.. the basis, the precedent is there. Someone said earlier, if you let one thing through, then everything else will follow.

  48. #48
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    No offense but you can't see past your way of life because it's all you've ever known. Who is to say that our way of life is really the best way of life? Capitalism has major flaws, proven by the issues of this thread.

    Sit down and think about it. You'll realize that the life you live here in this country could be better...

  49. #49
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    i believe it both side of this debate....... I AM POLITICIAN!!!!



    Have a great week.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by akdeluxe
    If you need a good bag for your next epic trip,buy one of Erics. Quality is the game.
    Let your wallet do the talking.


    akdeluxe
    OH MY GOD! YOU'RE NOT WEARING A HELMET!

    Whoops. Wrong thread.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg
    Sorry to say but that's "CAPITALISM" for you. This sort of thing is going on all over the place. This country feeds on CAPITALISM. Until we as Americans see the light, it will never change. CAPITALISM SHOULD BE ILLEGAL!!!

    CAPITALISM is one one humanity's greatest failures...
    HUMANS are humanity's greatest failure. In fact, why even call it humanity when only a very tiny fraction of humans are actually capable of it?

  52. #52
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    Specialized is a faux bike company and have been since day one when the sent the Kelley/Fisher bike to Asia and hit the copy button. They’ve made all their money off other peoples designs. Why? Because their designs have been failures time and time again. The ‘Brain’ suspension system? Ridden 4 versions of that joke (always improved they tell me) and it’s worthless. They won’t give it up because they are desperately trying to develop something themselves instead of buying it.
    Wal-Mart has Specialized bike on sale this week. Hurry on down because they’re throwing in a free pair of training wheels

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by br8kmywindo
    I couldn't have said it any better. If anybody comes up with a new product that is great, revolutionary or great, than it will sell. They shouldn't need to use name recognition for some free exposure. Something they definitely will benefit from this situation already. Specialized, or anybody for that matter, should protect what they have spent millions developing and marketing from anybody trying to ride off of their trademarks or likeness of any of their designs or names. They should have done a little more research before deciding on what to name their business. Thats business though.
    What a load of crap. How about Epic the water proof/breathable material?? That material has been around longer than Specialized Epics. The claim that Specialized owns the rights to the name epic is a stretch Eric never rode those coat tales. The name comes from epic adventures - none of which probably happen on Specialized bikes (at least not in AK). Specialized in a bs multi-national. Are they even USA made anymore? Specialized bikes is far from the first thing that pops in my mind when I hear Epic. So that means that any model name of a bike is copyright infringement. How about Id, Evolve, Nomad, Mach or the Brain. What if I used the Id section of my Brain to Evolve past my Nomadic lifestyle would I be getting sued by 3 different companies? Is Gillette going to sue Pivot since bikers shave? What if a bike company advertised epic adventures on their bikes - would they get sued too?

    Eric produces this stuff by hand in his house in Alaska and I hope and think Specialize will lose. His products are not called Epic or Epic Bike bags they are Epic Designs. Yet another reason to not waste your money on Specialized mass produced crap.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg
    No offense but you can't see past your way of life because it's all you've ever known. Who is to say that our way of life is really the best way of life? Capitalism has major flaws, proven by the issues of this thread.

    Sit down and think about it. You'll realize that the life you live here in this country could be better...
    I wouldn't make assumptions about my life.

    There are no political/socioeconomic systems that are flawless, however blaming capitalism while benefiting from it is rather hypocritical.

    Life COULD be better, no denying that. But life could be far, far worse. Enjoy what you have.

    As for Epic Adventures, I think Specialized's lawyers could only justify it due to it being focused on cycling; if Eric's company was a general outdoors bags company, then it'd be greatly weakened. But going in front of some non-cycling putz in a suit, they'd only see the facts as laid before them.

    Again, no I'm not justifying Specialized's behavior, but them's the marbles.

    Eric could probably well argue about the material named Epic that existed long before then, but will he have the funds to pay for lawyers to fight the behemoth? Probably not. And yes, this is a weakness of how things work these days; but on the flip side also allows someone who invents something truly innovative to protect their rights to it. Copyrights and trademarks work both ways. Can't exactly have it one way without the other.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by baycat
    What happens when I name my kid Enduro?
    You won't be able to let your kid ride bikes!!

  56. #56
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    Hey Specialized, here's some more folks to go after:

    Epic:



    Epic:



    Epic:

    epicbike and sport!
    ha! they are a S concept dealer!

    Epic:
    Epic Bicycles!

    Another S dealer!

    Epic:
    Epic Mountain Bike dot Com


    Epic Ride!
    At Whistler!


    Epic Stationary Bike (getting closer to an actual bike!)
    Last edited by bmike; 01-02-2010 at 03:49 AM.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles
    They sued Stratos shocks for a design stratos invented.
    Stratos most certainly did NOT invent the inertia valve.

    It has been around for a long long time. Fox/specialized got a patent for the application of that technology in mountain bikes. Stratos tried to circumvent that patent by using an earlier patent that was directed towards automotive application. Stratos imploded due to design flaws, manufacturing flaws, lack of development, and the type of decision-making that let them to try and cirvumvent specialized's patent.

    The revolving door policy began. So did the tailspins.

    Lacking any clear corporate vision or market strategy, they lost ground in every arena.

    Now, here's where things get even more murky.

    Mike made some arrangement with the Patent Holder for a particular type of Inertia Damping [I met him, but totally forget his name.]

    Do a Google on RICOR. Edelbrock uses the technology.

    However, unlike some other posts I've encounter recently, talks with RICOR did not enter into an agreement until about 2002-ish.

    The Patent was specific, however, and applied only to Motorized Vehicles - Mike was trying to work it into the bicycle side of things when I left town for the first jaunt to Mexico.

    My best guess is that he failed in due diligence with the patents that Specialized held with Fox and the loophole didn't work in his favor.

    On top of that issue, they came out with the El Jefe - a shock that they acknowledged to me at my very last Interbike as a reverse engineered Avalanche shock [with some variation in size and threading and such] but were totally out of the OEM market.

    With a tattered reputation and a new guy on the phone every other month, people just stopped buying the stuff.

    His biz that kept the lights on was mostly prototyping miscellaneous parts and churning out some proprietary helicopter bits.
    I don't agree with specialized strong-arming other companies to change the name of their products, that IS stepping over the line, but I've never found anything that would lead me to believe that Specialized had anything to do with Stratos's failure. Stratos was a train-wreck with very few bright points. Specialized WAS protecting property that they already had a patent for or applied for, and they had gone through the correct process to do so for their mountain-bike products.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  58. #58
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    I have 2 sticks of deodorant, made by different manufacturers. Both use the word 'Fresh' describing the scent.

    How can this be??? This would never happen if Specialized made deodorant.

  59. #59
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    I tried to post this on a popular UK based MTB forum...and it got pulled in 19mins as it was "blatant free advertising" presumably by Eric!

    So I'll now add Singletrack World to the the "don't fing touch with a barge pole" list along with Speccy.

    SSP
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  60. #60
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    Lol, that's funny. An Epic stationary bike.

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    Time to take off my training wheels!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacquesboutet
    To be sure, Specialized should be concerned that, in Alaska, its brand name is lacking street (or is it "trail"...or both?) cred...Most of the Specialized bikes up here have training wheels on them.

    Be assured that Alaska has plenty of full suspension mountain bikes....it just that very few, if any of them, are Specialized. Because we actually have mountains up here, we have to select rides that will consistently get you to the middle of nowhere and back!

    Eric, Epic Design's founding father, serves as an example for all of us. A university-trained engineer, he dropped out of the corporate rat-race and started a small business in his basement with a pair of scissors and a sewing machine. He has painstaking designed, tested and engineered the supply/manufacturing chain for a small catalog of brilliantly realized soft gear.

    I and many other endurance athletes from around the world have used his products during multi-day races along the Iditarod Trail that included traversing the Alaska Range and enduring forty-below zero temperatures- adventures for which I would NEVER consider using any Specialized products.

    If consumers are mistaking Epic Designs for a Specialized product.....Specialized should consider themselves serendiptously blessed. None of us up here are confused!

    It's great that you are proud of your accomplishments and lifestyle of having to deal with "forty-below zero temperatures" where you "actually have mountains". But come on, training wheels on specialized bikes? Your missing the whole point of this thread. I don't live in forty below temps, but I enjoy riding in good weather without dressing like an eskimo with chains on my tires, and a survival pack. Does that have anything to do with Specialized protecting their name. That's business buddy. I'm sure Epic Designs has some great products and their founder is a sharp guy. But, this is nothing new.

    One of my best friends moved to the east coast a bunch of years ago. He was a graphic designer fresh out of design school and took a job at a footwear company where he put in work made a name for himself. Now he started his own company: www.undrcrwn.com - His products are very innovative for his market, and has a very thin line with some of his "infringements" One of the big boys, Nike has blocked some of his work because of likeness issues such as this. But, his products are good enough that he rolled with the punches and is doing very well.

    So as you said, "If consumers are mistaking Epic Designs for a Specialized product.....Specialized should consider themselves serendiptously blessed. None of us up here are confused!" is true, then you should have no problem supporting Epic Designs regardless of their name. In the mean time, if you don't want to use Specialized products on your Alaska range, then don't. I'm not from Alaska, I'm from California---We ain't confused either.

  62. #62
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    So stupid. Seriously. Did Santa Cruz sue Dakine for making the Nomad pack? No. So why the heck is Specialized going after some tiny business owner?! So lame.

  63. #63
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    If I remember right, the Epic designed bike with the "brain" shock was stolen from Merida. The outcome of this is why we don't have Merida bikes in the US.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think it was Tom Ritchey's bike they sent to be copied, not the Kelly/Fischer bike.
    Speedway Cycles owner http://fatbackbikes.com

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    I really think that the problem is the taking such a broad observance of name/brand recognition, or the assumption of the broad appeal of a brand or model name. If the product at issue were a bicycle frame, or a suspension design and it used the name "Eipc", then Specialized would have a valid argument that it infringed on the name and recognition of that name - the Epic was the first FSR frame that used the "brain" style of shock to be a hardtail/softail and was a fairly "cutting edge" product. But to cut back the other way - they have models of bikes that are named after events, products, etc... and maybe the holders of these names should in turn, come after Specialized...? Do they pay the race promoters of the Paris-Roubaix road race a royalty to use the name "Roubaix" for one of their road models? Do any of the companies that produce tarmac - basically asphalt - have an issue with the fact that Specialized has a model of bicycle that is called the "Tarmac", which is designed to ride on that medium? Should they sue for royalties or put out a cease-and-desist order? While I agree with brand protection, intellectual property laws, etc... there is a limit that seems to be getting ignored, IMO. Personally I think that Specialized makes some very good products, and like all companies, some that aren't so good. While I won't say that I will not buy or ride their products (have their tires on one of my bikes right now...) I do get very turned-off by the behavior of the corporation and it makes me put other manufacturers and builders ahead of them in my queue for what I will spend my money on. Since there is no seat bag/handlebar bag/frame bag/pannier/even remotely close competing product that is made my Specialized with the name "Epic" attached to it, nor are any of Epic Design's bags created to fit especially onto a Specialized Epic frame, I cannot see how any judge would choose to see that there is an infringement here. Like someone else said earlier in this thread - Specialized's bike is not anywhere near the first thing that pops into my mind when I hear the word "epic"...
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  65. #65
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    Anyone get this reply from Special?

    "Thank you very much for your feedback. Specialized possesses no hard feelings nor are we trying to harm Epic Designs in Alaska. However, we strive to protect our assets. One asset we consider valuable is our trademark on the Epic branding. We hope you understand our position. Thank you again for contacting us."

    Don't harsh my mello

  66. #66
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    Mmmyeahh....

    Quote Originally Posted by ARider
    Exactly, if you invest millions in a brand/name you would be an idiot not to protect it. It may seem unfair in a case such as this, but if you let one rock slide, the whole hill can come down.

    Specialized as a brand is known world wide. People buy Specialized product because they recognize the brand and associate it w/ killer bikes and products.

    Do you think Nike lets anyone use their "swoosh" logo, or Gatorade their lightning bolt, or Ford the name "Mustang" for a car, or the UCI their rainbow stripes, or the International Olympic Commitee their circle logo? I don't think so. There are reasons for copyright laws and the likes. Look at China, you can get all kinds of fake knock-off crap there. And it is just that, crap. In the modern global economy a brand identity can be just as important as the product. Sometimes this may seem unfair to the little guy, but that's business.

    Case in point, Specialized made a jersey that said "Lunch Time Worlds" and had the UCI rainbow stripes on it. It arose from the weekly Specialized lunch ride in Morgan Hill. The UCI found out and Specialized can no longer make the jersey. No tears were shed.

    If you are not going to buy their product, and bad mouth a company because they are protecting their investment, that is pretty dumb. I am going to continue riding my sick new Specialized full suspension bike. You should stick to that steel hardtail made 15 yaers ago and please pull over when I come blasting by.
    ... but they didn't invent 'Epic', they don't own the word, and nobody is going to confuse what this guy does in any way shape or form with anything Specialized does. He is not riding anybody's coattails.

    He is not violating any kind of patents on what Spec does... no FSR suspension, no R&D he is plagiarizing, no look and feel violations of collateral, logos, etc..

    He used the word 'Epic' and last I checked, Specialized basically took it from popular sports vernacular and tacked it on one of their bikes.

    If somebody had deep enough pockets, they could easily challenge this in court and win. Problem is, last I heard this kinda case costs about $60k per round to defend, and Spec could appeal over and over again to run the defense dry.

    What a bunch of Doosh bags.

    I'm stunned that anybody honestly thinks Spec is in the right on this.

    /me Shakes my head.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by br8kmywindo
    .........Your missing the whole point of this thread.........[:

    I think you are missing the point.

    One company makes bicycles (sic). One company makes bags.

    There is no way a consumer could be misled by the name Epic being used by both companies. There is no similar product, there is no similar logo, there is no reference or implication that they are the same company. By your logic, Specialized owns the rights to the name "Epic" and could sue anyone making any type of product that used any similar sounding name.

    The only reason bully companies get away with this BS in this country is because most consumers just shrug their shoulders and keep buying their crap.

    Look how fast Monster dropped the BS suit against the brewery that used the name Vermonster. That had way more validity than this BS suit by Specialized and public pressure made them drop it like a hot potato.
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  68. #68
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    Yep...

    Quote Originally Posted by wg
    Anyone get this reply from Special?

    "Thank you very much for your feedback. Specialized possesses no hard feelings nor are we trying to harm Epic Designs in Alaska. However, we strive to protect our assets. One asset we consider valuable is our trademark on the Epic branding. We hope you understand our position. Thank you again for contacting us."

    I got the same exact response. They say they don't want to do harm to Epic Designs, but that is exactly what they are doing. I'm sure its just one bonehead exec at Specialized sicking their lawyers on them for no good reason other than ego.

    I think it would be great of everybody who felt this is wrong wrote into Specialized and shared their feelings with them. Maybe if enough people tell them that they are not going to buy their products anymore because of this and other similar incidents, maybe they will change their tune.

    Boycott Specialized!!!
    Last edited by pimpbot; 12-31-2009 at 11:14 AM.

  69. #69
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    It's really hard for me to boycott Specialized since I don't really buy any of their stuff anyway. I always felt pretty meh about their stuff.
    Trogs: Too Tough for Carbon Fiber

  70. #70
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    This guy might not be a lawyer, but he is right on point.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thaumaturge
    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

    "From what I understand, Specialized is legally obligated to protect their trademarks. If they fail to do so in even minor cases they set a precedent and lose the right to shut down other, more obvious infringements down the road.

    Imagine if Trek made bags named "Epic"? How would people react? Differently, I'm guessing. If Specialized fails to protect its trademarks now, it opens up doors like that.

    Now, as somebody else pointed out, the question of whether a company should even be able to trademark a common word like "Epic" is an entirely different matter."
    Last edited by chunder down under; 12-31-2009 at 06:47 PM.

  71. #71
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    I didn't read any of the replies because I assume 90% of them say the same thing: This blows. Specialized is greedy. Specialized can suck it, etc, etc.....etc.

    I am not a copyright/trademark expert but here is something to consider and maybe it was mentioned above. Apple is notorious for suing companies for all sorts of "supposed" violations to their trademark. Naturally Apple has a lot to protect since their branding is nearly iconic. The Apple logo is recognized worldwide and the iPod name most surely isn't far behind, maybe even surpassing the actual apple logo.

    I saw a news story where Apple filed a lawsuit against a company called "Pods" who makes these modular storage units. Now, these businesses are completely unrelated and any reasonable person would call this ludicrous.

    BUT, according to this story, part of protecting your trademark/copyright involves showing a consistent track record on the company's part of defending said trademark. So a lot of companies will sue others even though they know it may be totally frivolous because it will help them in the future if/when they really have a legitimate case. If you look at the really big brands.....brands who spend billions of dollars on marketing, have worldwide brand recognition, etc (i.e. Disney, Coke, Microsoft, Apple of course, etc), I'm sure you will find this same thing. They will do anything to protect their brand and it's image. It's just part of the game.

  72. #72
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    This all just makes me hate my 2 semi-new bikes.

  73. #73
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    There is so much stupid in this thread and every other thread about this.

  74. #74
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  75. #75
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    From reading his blog It sounds like it is a done deal. Eric is already looking for new names and there is no mention of a legal battle.

  76. #76
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    My entry for a new name is 'Cipepic'.

    'Epic' backwards & forwards.

    But how would you pronounce it?

  77. #77
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    Good job! pimpbot...good job!

    I agree with you. At least debate in America is still healthy, as this thread proves.
    There's this little thing called the letter of the law & the spirit of the law...
    Special Ed blows...me thinks this will blow up in their face, it's just a matter of time. Why?

    Implosion, or the death of a thousand cuts, brought on by their own legal shenanigans. Too many blatantly stupid lawsuits, legalism gone completely amok & always dismissed as "normal business practice" or "protection" & especially my favorite excuse- "everyone else does it"? WOW - we all need to take a big step back & look at this for what it really is... pure garbage. What's that old saying? "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". Adults who prey on children are totally despised, but mega-companies can routinely prey on small companies & it's ok? Twisted...Weird... Backwards.

    We all live with Capitalism & gladly accept it's positive benefits. However, we don't have to give into it's HUGE shortcomings & call it "business" as usual. Me & my four & no more? What a great excuse to stab others in the back & justify it as normal living.

    Bad Karma? Sowing & Reaping? Putting out FAR too many negative vibes? Call it whatever you want - IT ALWAYS CATCHES UP WITH YOU, regardless if you're an individual or corporation...it's just a matter of time.

    Now the little guy has the Internet to help spread his voice & fight back.
    No longer do small companies have to roll over & play dead.
    Against the odds, David DID kill Goliath, used his sword & cut his head off.
    When did something so fun as bikes become the breeding ground & cesspool of greedy lawyers hellbent on political correctness parsing individual word definitions?

  78. #78
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    Iirc........

    Quote Originally Posted by thirstywork
    If I remember right, the Epic designed bike with the "brain" shock was stolen from Merida. The outcome of this is why we don't have Merida bikes in the US.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I also think it was Tom Ritchey's bike they sent to be copied, not the Kelly/Fischer bike.

    Merida owns a majority percentage of Specialized. Years ago they were the companies largest frame manufacturer and Specy got somewhat sideways and Merida bailed them out. The Merida "Epic" is shared technology from the parent co.

    - And Jayem is correct about Stratos, the Inertia Valve though I thought was a Lawill thing from the Moto day's of old. I could be mistaken though.

    Lastly, IMO SBC needs to CHILL on the whole lawsuit thing.

  79. #79
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    As I mentioned in another thread, this does not paint a great picture of people from the US of A, the vast majority of the globe just think the US of A is a sue this, sue that nation, rather sad really.......

    Come to New Zealand where by you cant sue. Can you imagine that, a doctor cut your right arm off by mistake and you cant sue the doctor!

    Be interesting to see how this plays out, we are out of a decade of boom, of which the final year of the decade was far from boom.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shredr
    ....Too many blatantly stupid lawsuits, legalism gone completely amok & always dismissed as "normal business practice" or "protection" & especially my favorite excuse- "everyone else does it"? WOW - we all need to take a big step back & look at this for what it really is... pure garbage. What's that old saying? "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". Adults who prey on children are totally despised, but mega-companies can routinely prey on small companies & it's ok? Twisted...Weird... Backwards.

    We all live with Capitalism & gladly accept it's positive benefits. However, we don't have to give into it's HUGE shortcomings & call it "business" as usual. Me & my four & no more? What a great excuse to stab others in the back & justify it as normal living.

    Bad Karma? Sowing & Reaping? Putting out FAR too many negative vibes? Call it whatever you want - IT ALWAYS CATCHES UP WITH YOU, regardless if you're an individual or corporation...it's just a matter of time.

    Now the little guy has the Internet to help spread his voice & fight back.
    No longer do small companies have to roll over & play dead.
    Against the odds, David DID kill Goliath, used his sword & cut his head off.
    When did something so fun as bikes become the breeding ground & cesspool of greedy lawyers hellbent on political correctness parsing individual word definitions?
    Shredr....BIG THANK YOU!!!! You perfectly hit the nail on the head. Big S is using their fat coffers to coerce a one-man company into submission by abusing the legal system. And to all those who try to justify the corporate PR/Legal smooth talk about Big S having/needing to defend their trademarks and that Big S has to do it, no matter what. Not true...and you know it. Big S has/had a choice. Let me ask you this in this specific context. Would Big S have done it, if Epic Designs was a multi-billion dollar company? Would Big S still be riding their faux high horse about having to protect their trademarks???

    Oh, and I guess these guys are next on the Big S lawsuit list....

  81. #81
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    There was a nice tire called the WTB Epic Wolf. I believe Specialized sued them and they had to change the name to Exiwolf.

    fc
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  82. #82
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    Industry Nine makes a hub/wheel called the Enduro....are they next?
    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuruAtma
    Industry Nine makes a hub/wheel called the Enduro....are they next?

    You will be next , for using the word enduro.

  84. #84
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    Damn it took a while to read this thread. I am glad most of the peeps seem to dislike/boycott/never purchased a specialized before. I HATE the big S. They stole their original bike design from Tom Ritchey nuff said. Plus when I run into folks riding that work for Special Ed, they also seem to be sponsered by Summer's Eve.
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  85. #85
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    Check out this story.

    http://www.weedales.com/try_legal_we...ottle_caps.htm

    It's another example of big brother interfering with the little guy. In this case it's not a small town bike shop but it's a small town microbrew called Mt Shasta Brewing Company in Weed, CA and the bru haa haa over their bottle cap that says "Try legal Weed".

    The ATF said that the bottle cap promotes the use of illegal drugs. Well when MSBC argued that if he can't use "Try Legal Weed" then Budweiser can't use "This Buds for you". The ATF backed off. Probably with some lobbying from Budweisers high power attorneys.

    The best thing about this story is the owner fought the ATF and WON
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  86. #86
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    Yeah, my point is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shredr
    I agree with you. At least debate in America is still healthy, as this thread proves.
    There's this little thing called the letter of the law & the spirit of the law...
    Special Ed blows...me thinks this will blow up in their face, it's just a matter of time. Why?

    Implosion, or the death of a thousand cuts, brought on by their own legal shenanigans. Too many blatantly stupid lawsuits, legalism gone completely amok & always dismissed as "normal business practice" or "protection" & especially my favorite excuse- "everyone else does it"? WOW - we all need to take a big step back & look at this for what it really is... pure garbage. What's that old saying? "All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". Adults who prey on children are totally despised, but mega-companies can routinely prey on small companies & it's ok? Twisted...Weird... Backwards.

    We all live with Capitalism & gladly accept it's positive benefits. However, we don't have to give into it's HUGE shortcomings & call it "business" as usual. Me & my four & no more? What a great excuse to stab others in the back & justify it as normal living.

    Bad Karma? Sowing & Reaping? Putting out FAR too many negative vibes? Call it whatever you want - IT ALWAYS CATCHES UP WITH YOU, regardless if you're an individual or corporation...it's just a matter of time.

    Now the little guy has the Internet to help spread his voice & fight back.
    No longer do small companies have to roll over & play dead.
    Against the odds, David DID kill Goliath, used his sword & cut his head off.
    When did something so fun as bikes become the breeding ground & cesspool of greedy lawyers hellbent on political correctness parsing individual word definitions?
    ... you have every legal right to be a douche in public, but you should be responsible for the backlash. IMO, Spechy is being pretty Douchy. Having the right to do something doesn't mean it's a good idea, or doesn't mean it's good for society.

  87. #87
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    I get it I get it

    Quote Originally Posted by 11 Bravo
    I think you are missing the point.

    One company makes bicycles (sic). One company makes bags.

    There is no way a consumer could be misled by the name Epic being used by both companies. There is no similar product, there is no similar logo, there is no reference or implication that they are the same company. By your logic, Specialized owns the rights to the name "Epic" and could sue anyone making any type of product that used any similar sounding name.

    The only reason bully companies get away with this BS in this country is because most consumers just shrug their shoulders and keep buying their crap.

    Look how fast Monster dropped the BS suit against the brewery that used the name Vermonster. That had way more validity than this BS suit by Specialized and public pressure made them drop it like a hot potato.

    REALLY?

    "One company makes bicycles (sic). One company makes bags"

    "There is no way a consumer could be misled by the name Epic being used by both companies. There is no similar product, there is no similar logo, there is no reference or implication that they are the same company. By your logic, Specialized owns the rights to the name "Epic" and could sue anyone making any type of product that used any similar sounding name."

    So......BY YOUR LOGIC:


    Are you saying that a company's claim is only acceptable if both products, logos, etc. were the same? So NIKE: who makes footwear and sporting goods should have no problem with allowing a company such as SONY: who makes electronics, use the words "Just do it" because "there is no way a consumer could be misled" between the two companies because they don't make the same products? I am no copyright attorney, but I agree with defending what has been invested in marketing and design, as well as setting a precedence for any possible future infringements. Would you feel the same way about Specialized filing infringement over this if it were Trek or another direct competitor of similar size? Just because the company is not large, or comparable in assets, should not change anything. So, yes, I think I do get the point.

    Words it seems can be copyrighted as well and not just names. Michael Buffer has the rights to "Lets get ready to rumble". I'm quite sure he doesn't own the english language, but he owns that. So that's business. If you want to boycott Specialized for doing business, so be it. But because they are not the "little guy" does not mean that what they are doing is entirely wrong. It may seem excessive to some people, but may be necessary in the business world. Peace-

  88. #88
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    "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."
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  89. #89
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    "EPIC" is and has been a word associated with mountain bikes, mountain bikers, and long rides much longer than Specialized has claimed rights to the word.

    "Just Do It" is a phrase, not a word. Same too with "Let's get ready to rumble."

    If Specialized introduced the "Watoozy" or the "Moonrocket", and Eric named his company the same, I could see a case being made. Or if he named it "Fox Designs," I could see Fox having an issue.

    But in this instance, "Epic" is in the common vernacular, and they two very different products.

    I believe this is a case of Specialized overreaching, and that the "Reasonable Person" wouldn't be confused by the two.
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  90. #90
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    Just another reason not to buy from Special Ed...owning the word epic my ass. F*ck 'em
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  91. #91
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    They make nice shoes though. Maybe I'll just black out the S.
    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  92. #92
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    Good job! snowjnky

    Plus when I run into folks riding that work for Special Ed, they also seem to be sponsered by Summer's Eve.[/QUOTE]

    That's great!

    Keep them coming!

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuruAtma
    They make nice shoes though. Maybe I'll just black out the S.


    Try the Bontrager RL's .

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    I got the same exact response. They say they don't want to do harm to Epic Designs, but that is exactly what they are doing. I'm sure its just one bonehead exec at Specialized sicking their lawyers on them for no good reason other than ego.
    [/URL]
    No, they're actually doing him a favor by getting him to change his name before he develops wide brand and name recognition and then having to change it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMFT
    Merida owns a majority percentage of Specialized. Years ago they were the companies largest frame manufacturer and Specy got somewhat sideways and Merida bailed them out. The Merida "Epic" is shared technology from the parent co.
    Last time I looked it up, Merida bought a 49% stake in Specialized. One article says it's actually 19%. That's not a majority but they still do make all the Spec frames. If you look at Merida bikes sold elsewhere, a lot of them are remarkably similar to Specialized bikes, except they aren't allowed to use the Brain.(or theywere; the 2010s on their site look more like Treks, with a lot of 69ers, then Specialized).

  95. #95
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    I'm with Speedub Nate on this one.

    This really seems like a stretch by Specialized. "Epic" isn't a slogan like "Just Do It" or a made up or deliberately misspelled word, nor is it a proper name. It's a word in common usage in the language, used to describe many things besides bicycle rides.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    "EPIC" is and has been a word associated with mountain bikes, mountain bikers, and long rides much longer than Specialized has claimed rights to the word.

    "Just Do It" is a phrase, not a word. Same too with "Let's get ready to rumble."

    If Specialized introduced the "Watoozy" or the "Moonrocket", and Eric named his company the same, I could see a case being made. Or if he named it "Fox Designs," I could see Fox having an issue.

    But in this instance, "Epic" is in the common vernacular, and they two very different products.

    I believe this is a case of Specialized overreaching, and that the "Reasonable Person" wouldn't be confused by the two.

    this

    its the same as the monster case, its a commonly used term

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    I'd boycott Specialized, but none, and I mean none, of their products appeal to me.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by br8kmywindo
    REALLY?

    "One company makes bicycles (sic). One company makes bags"

    "There is no way a consumer could be misled by the name Epic being used by both companies. There is no similar product, there is no similar logo, there is no reference or implication that they are the same company. By your logic, Specialized owns the rights to the name "Epic" and could sue anyone making any type of product that used any similar sounding name."

    So......BY YOUR LOGIC:


    Are you saying that a company's claim is only acceptable if both products, logos, etc. were the same? So NIKE: who makes footwear and sporting goods should have no problem with allowing a company such as SONY: who makes electronics, use the words "Just do it" because "there is no way a consumer could be misled" between the two companies because they don't make the same products? I am no copyright attorney, but I agree with defending what has been invested in marketing and design, as well as setting a precedence for any possible future infringements. Would you feel the same way about Specialized filing infringement over this if it were Trek or another direct competitor of similar size? Just because the company is not large, or comparable in assets, should not change anything. So, yes, I think I do get the point.

    Words it seems can be copyrighted as well and not just names. Michael Buffer has the rights to "Lets get ready to rumble". I'm quite sure he doesn't own the english language, but he owns that. So that's business. If you want to boycott Specialized for doing business, so be it. But because they are not the "little guy" does not mean that what they are doing is entirely wrong. It may seem excessive to some people, but may be necessary in the business world. Peace-


    Thanks for ending your post with "Peace". I wish you the same. I don't want this to be heated or confrontational. In the end you and I will just agree to disagree.

    When you give an example of a company like Sony using a well know phrase that is copyrighted by Nike you are making a huge reach and the example does not apply to this case.

    Specialized Bicycle Components makes a bike with the model name Epic.

    Epic Designs makes bicycle bags that don't even have specific model names.

    If Eric had called his company Specialized Bicycle Bags or something like that I would agree with you.

    To my knowledge, Specialized does not have a catch phrase like "Just Do It", but if they did and another company tried to use it of mimic it I would agree with you.

    Neither of these things have happened here. How do you answer the examples given by Bmike further down in this thread (as of the time of this reply it is post #63) ?

    It would make no difference to me if it was a big company like Trek or some other small company. If you are stealing another companies logos, catch phrases or are blatantly trying to benefit from making your company sound or look like another you should be taken to court.

    I fully agree with you that they have the legal right to pursue these dam near invisible threats to their company, but Specialized is going over the line on this kind of stuff and it is disgusting. Just because they can do it does not mean they have to or should.

    Maybe Mike Sinyard is paranoid that someone will steal something from him because he got his big break by acquiring a frame design that belonged to Tom Richey and having it copied. What a douche.

    As for me boycotting Specialized products. I haven't bought anything from the big S in many years. Not since I figured out what kind of company they are. One of my first bikes was a Hardrock and I really liked it. But as I learned more about bikes I figured out they were overpriced for what they are. As I learned more about them as a company I never bothered to look at their products again.

    I will finish where I started out. You and I will have to agree to disagree. Peace to you as well.
    Last edited by 11 Bravo; 01-01-2010 at 07:14 PM.
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  99. #99
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    It will never fly

    Epic of Gilgamesh to Epic ride. It is just too public to succeed. Corporate lawyers with not enough to do to justlfy their salaries.

  100. #100
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    Heh.... they make nice bike computers...

    Quote Originally Posted by older and slower
    I'd boycott Specialized, but none, and I mean none, of their products appeal to me.
    I just took mine off in disgust.... well, okay. That is a total lie. I just got a Garmin 305

    Taking a Specialized item off my bike was just icing on the cake. Now if they just didn't own the suspension patent on my Titus frame....

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