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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Myself, my brother and FroRide1 have talked about dropper posts and the lack of need for them. But, it's not due to budget or price.

    All three of us come from dirt bike riding/motocross. When you ride off-road motorcycles, having the seat there as a point of contact with your thighs and knees is something you rely on A LOT. So, when I ride, I like my seat to be there as an indicator. Sometimes I grab my seat with my knees a la dirt bike riding when MTB riding.

    For me, it goes double with my background in BMX, too. The kids nowadays "slam" their seat, but if you watch the older riders (and that would be me) like Ryan Nyquist, the seat is up. For BMX, I also use it as an indicator, and I also use it for certain tricks (like hang-5's). Back in my youth, We would air 5', 6', 7' feet by doing "tuck-backs" on Hill jump at Calabazas. I never got "caught" or "hung up" because my seat was high.

    I one time put my seat down on a descend and it felt very loosey-goosey for me. I think if I didn't come from BMX or dirt bike riding, I could get used to a low seat for descending.

    Just on our ride yesterday, by brother accidentally hit the dropper post lever, and he says, "Remind me to get rid of this stupid thing..." He also says it's from dirt bike riding and motocross.
    This is very true. But as you can see, the seat on a motorcross is not jacked up all the way high that you can't even touch the ground. If it was, many will perish.

    Dropping the saddle is not done overnight specially if you've been high-posting all your life. The rider has to get used to it. You know it is better but it does feel alien like wide bars. I would say descend with the post dropped about 50 times and it will start to feel natural. The good thing is you can drop it 2 inches at first and more later as you get used to it.

    fc

  2. #102
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    I think we have two good products now:
    KS LEV Dropper Seatpost Review | Mountain Bike Review
    RockShox Reverb Review | Mountain Bike Review

    My advice (if you can afford these ridiculously expensive products) is to buy them now, get used to it and be safer and faster. They are truly incredible tools.

    I would not wait for the Thompson post. It will be expensive and it will be a first effort. They are a great company and they have never produced a moving part of this complexity before.

    Price will be an issue for a while. It is the hottest category right now and they will charge what folks are willing to pay, specially if the product works.

    fc

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by KentM View Post
    Sorry if my comment offended you. Next time, try adding something intelligent to your post so that you don't make everyone less intelligent from reading it.
    All I'm saying is you could've left the part about making excuses to not spend $300 out and still received an answer to your question. I was going to include some information on why a lowered seat will improve your riding, but I didn't want to insult your intelligence. It is pretty basic mountain biking theory, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    I would not wait for the Thompson post.
    Really, dude? I disagree with you here. Yes, dropper posts are expensive, but chances are the Thomson will be the only one worth the price of admission. They make top notch goods. As far as it being complex, look at the other products LH Thomson is involved in. Pretty sure they can make a seat post up-down-thingie.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    This is very true. But as you can see, the seat on a motorcross is not jacked up all the way high that you can't even touch the ground. If it was, many will perish.
    fc
    Not true, Francis. On my CRF250X I had to tippy toe, as do many riders. A lot of noobie dirt riders install lowering dog bones (links) to drop their bikes so their feet can touch the ground. My wife won't ride anything bigger than a small displacement simply because she couldn't touch the ground, and she's 5'7". Using the seat and gas tank for steering a motorcycle is a crucial technique. Froride and I were actually talking about how we use that same technique... it feels very natural.

    In fact, my friend Rob owns Evolution Suspension, and he specializes in lowering motorcycles. I've bought motorcycles that have been lowered (with shaved seats) and had to put them back to stock... because I couldn't grab the seat with my knees! I couldn't touch the ground without hanging off the side slightly, or tiptoeing.

    I'm not saying that dropper posts don't help some riders. I just don't think it will help me. When I experimented with a lowered seat, I kept trying to grab the seat with my knees a la dirt bike riding, and it wasn't there - screwed me up big time.

    In the end, downhill isn't my issue... uphill is.
    Last edited by Dion; 12-30-2012 at 11:31 PM.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Not true, Francis. On my CRF250X I had to tippy toe, as do many riders. A lot of noobie dirt riders install lowering dog bones (links) to drop their bikes so their feet can touch the ground. My wife won't ride anything bigger than a small displacement simply because she couldn't touch the ground, and she's 5'7". Using the seat and gas tank for steering a motorcycle is a crucial technique. Froride and I were actually talking about how we use that same technique... it feels very natural.

    I'm not saying that dropper posts don't help some riders. I just don't think it will help me. When I experimented with a lowered seat, I kept trying to grab the seat with my knees a la dirt bike riding, and it wasn't there - screwed me up big time.

    In the end, downhill isn't my issue... uphill is.
    This thang??



    I'm not sure how the seat can be any lower with all that suspension travel.

    " I just don't think it will help me."

    It will help if you invest the time on it. It's also a bigger issue if you ride, steeper, technical terrain. You know... rad trails around the country!!

    On a hardtail, it's still hard to justify but on a 5 inch bike, it's becoming more of the default.

    fc

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdubsl2 View Post
    All I'm saying is you could've left the part about making excuses to not spend $300 out and still received an answer to your question. I was going to include some information on why a lowered seat will improve your riding, but I didn't want to insult your intelligence. It is pretty basic mountain biking theory, after all.



    Really, dude? I disagree with you here. Yes, dropper posts are expensive, but chances are the Thomson will be the only one worth the price of admission. They make top notch goods. As far as it being complex, look at the other products LH Thomson is involved in. Pretty sure they can make a seat post up-down-thingie.
    Wait for version 3 of Thomson. It'll be better. Why wait for a Thomson version 1 when you can have a KS Lev now. As you said 'chances are...'. There is a chance they will hit a home run on their first moving part. But there is a bigger chance they will learn and evolve from this first effort. The launch can be really delayed too.

    Whatever it is though Jdubs.... you'll break it.

    This kind of reminds me of folks getting soo excited with Chris King entering the hubs and bottom brackets. It was a looooong wait and they weren't that good.

    fc

  7. #107
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    Throw a leg over trail bike, and you'll get what I saying. 8in of travel stands the bike pretty tall, even when sagged, and motorcycles don't come in sizes, unlike bicycles. Google "dirt bike tiptoe" and you'll discover it's common. I may suck on a MTB, but motorcycles is something I actually have years of experience (riding, racing, wrenching, building) in .

    The time I lowered my seat was at Demo. There are some things I lean towards with bike set-up because it lends to motorcycle riding (like wide handlebars - I'm used to riding 31" wide bars from dirt bikes). And using my seat to push through a turn is something I do on my MTB. I know it sounds weird, but I like it.

    I need to get my climbing in check, first, before I start messing with dropper posts.

  8. #108
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    100+ posts and no one has hated on the Kronolog yet?

    I've owned a Joplin 3, demoed the Command Post Blacklight, and reverb on long bike demos, and now have the Kronolog.

    The Joplin was actually a decent dropper, just had side to side play which was annoying as hell. I had the lever version and while it was light, i just didn't find myself adjusting it mid trail because I couldn't take my hands off the bars. I thought about getting the remote kit but saved the money and just did the cb upgrade to the kronolog for $170.

    The Command post remote was just to damn fiddly for me requiring way to much lever force and I could never get the seat to go down when I wanted and it would pop back with ball crushing force. Granted it was a demo and I didn't adjust the psi and all that crap.

    The reverb actually was a great post, but I remember thinking at the time that there was something annoying with it having to do with post return. Or maybe the sideways button? I forget but it seems to be a good option.

    I've probably put 300 miles on the Kronolog so far and I really like it for the most part. I haven't had the issue others have with the post slipping all the way down for no reason. No side to side play. Easy to use remote, doesn't require too much force, up and down action that is predictable and not ball crushing. Weight is on the lighter side compared to competition, but still not light enough. The lever is nifty and has multiple angles and install routes. So now that I've said that, I'm sure it will fail on my next ride, so I'll try to fend it off by ranting about the annoying things. The seat clamp uses a t25 which is annoying as hell. Why crank brothers?! And it slips if it's not super tight. I don't have a t25 bit for my torque wrench. I am not going to buy one either. Also somewhere along the way, one of the clamps has seized onto the rail so I can't actually move the angle of the seat. Cable routing is annoying as hell. Out of the box the cable has to be installed facing forward. To have the routing come out on the back side requires you to take the post apart. I'm a medium sized guy with a medium sized blur. I have to install the post flush with the frame to use all 125mm. You will have to travel reduce it on a smaller frame. The cable also has to have lots of slack and point straight down.They claim if you don't, you are installing it improperly and it is the reason all those people had posts that self-dropped. At least it's cheap derailleur cabling and the cable doesn't move. Except that if you replace it with improper tension, the post might fail. Side note: I wish my blur had bosses for full length housing as it's a must. So now i've got extra annoying zip ties. I'm not expecting much longevity which is really sad, but hopefully when it dies CB will RMA it, do another upgrade program, or the thompson will be out and I'll be making enough money to get one.

    I'm actually considering going back to just a regular post and QR for norcal riding. I found the dropper was indispensable for socal riding, but I just don't really know if it's all that useful for local trails around here. We just don't have as much gnar interspersed with our flowy single track. I was just thinking how many times did I really need to use it at skeggs today and would my ride have been that much less fun with out it in terms of weight penalty.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Wait for version 3 of Thomson. It'll be better. Why wait for a Thomson version 1 when you can have a KS Lev now. As you said 'chances are...'. There is a chance they will hit a home run on their first moving part. But there is a bigger chance they will learn and evolve from this first effort. The launch can be really delayed too.

    Whatever it is though Jdubs.... you'll break it.

    This kind of reminds me of folks getting soo excited with Chris King entering the hubs and bottom brackets. It was a looooong wait and they weren't that good.

    fc
    I'd say that if I were to buy a dropper post, I'd buy the Thomson.

    Why? Well, cause Reverb or LEV version 17 still seems to be junk, failing left and right.
    At least the Thomson version we don't know for a fact to be junk, so at least there is a chance of success.
    Once Thomson has proven to fail left and right as well, you'll be right.



    Magura

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post

    …it would ideally have to be integrated in the frames…

    Magura :)
    Interesting…has there been any hints from the bike manufacturers of a design in this direction?

    ///Charlie
    Long live long rides

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline35 View Post
    Interesting…has there been any hints from the bike manufacturers of a design in this direction?

    ///Charlie
    No, but in a couple of months, I have made one

    Look up a thread called something like "DIY carbon Kevlar DJ frame", in the frame building forum.


    Magura


    EDIT: Found the link: A carbon / Kevlar DJ/Street/trial frame

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    I'd say that if I were to buy a dropper post, I'd buy the Thomson.

    Why? Well, cause Reverb or LEV version 17 still seems to be junk, failing left and right.
    At least the Thomson version we don't know for a fact to be junk, so at least there is a chance of success.
    Once Thomson has proven to fail left and right as well, you'll be right.



    Magura
    Thomson is a ray of hope!

    fc

  13. #113
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    Lot od uninformed and one sided opinions in this thread. There are a lot of people who swear by seat droppers, you will see these people slam their seat all the way down on every descent no matter what the trail, you usually see these people sitting on the slammed seat, or standing off the saddle with locked legs. These are usually the guys who swear they could never ride without a dropper, even tho theyre riding incorrectly.

    Then you have the xc guys who swear seat droppers are a waste and who needs em. These are the people you see either going at a snails pace way behind thier seat, barely able to hold onto the bars, dragging brakes, or are constantly going over the nars, or simply just walk their bikes down tech sections.

    Seat droppers reward the roders with proper techmiques and fundamental skills, lowering it according to the trails demands, and using the extra cockpit room to squat into the bike to pump, lower cg, and to let the bike move underneath them.

    So instead of spewing one sided arguments on the cons and pros of seat droppers, realize that there are many types of riding and riders and a tool like a seat dropper can be very beneficial if used in the correct manner. The best riders can ride fast with the seat up, and even faster with it down.

  14. #114
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    Oh, and stealth reverb FTW

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lopaka View Post
    I have tried 2 dropper posts over the years, a Maverick and a Crank Brothers. My experience was that they were prone to failure, sometimes catastrophic failure. They were heavy, cumbersome, and inconsistent. The rail adjustments were difficult to use and they couldn't secure the saddle properly. Worst, they allowed the saddle to move side to side.

    I used to think dropping the seat was required for those occasional sketchy but thrilling spots. When i didn't have a dropper post I would stop ahead of those sections and using the quick release clamp, drop the seat.

    Two years ago I bought a new bike and I had not yet acquired a quick release for the seatpost. On an inaugural ride I remember rolling up to a familiar steep section of trail with three nasty steep switchbacks that were part of a great mile long descent. I was just too lazy to get out my tools to adjust the seat clamp. I dropped in with my seat at full mast. To my delight, no problem. I haven't moved that seat post since. For me a dropper seat post is just unnecessary.
    This is kind of my position at this point. I've made it this far without one, and I'll either get an adjustable seat clamp, go carbon and stay fixed, or wait it out until Thomson's first gen gets reviewed positively, or just wait till the technology gets better and the price comes down. Even though Korea is mountainous (relatively....navigable hills are usually no more than 150-200 metres high), long trails where you can really air it out are hard to come by, so it's a lot of rolling up and down, and when I ride there are usually only about 2 or 3 spots each ride where I have to get into a safe riding position and brace myself for a down. The odd time I'll opt out, and walk it down. I know a dropper would help, and I'd probably be really happy once I got it, weight be damned. For now, curious bystander. Look forward to more reviews, Francis.
    Happy Trails...

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Seat droppers reward the roders with proper techmiques and fundamental skills, lowering it according to the trails demands, and using the extra cockpit room to squat into the bike to pump, lower cg, and to let the bike move underneath them.

    So instead of spewing one sided arguments on the cons and pros of seat droppers, realize that there are many types of riding and riders and a tool like a seat dropper can be very beneficial if used in the correct manner. The best riders can ride fast with the seat up, and even faster with it down.
    As stated a few posts above, dropping the saddle down is a great idea in my opinion.

    What we need now, is to actually make it work in reality, and work all the time, reliably.
    As long as the manufacturers keep on doing things the same way, for every "new" generation of droppers, my guess is (wild guessing here, I know) they're gonna get pretty much the same result.

    Magura

  17. #117
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    My stealth reverb custom fitted to my mojo hd has worked flawlessly for the last 8 months or so akd show no signs of wear. No annoying cable either. I used joplins before this and i would get about a year outta them before needing rebuild. Really not that bad for a device being used hundreds of times per ride, thru slop, dust, and all conditions.

  18. #118
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    Originally Posted by Mr.Magura
    Reliability is really hit and miss still, and it seems to continue that way for a long time.
    ......
    Till then, not really. Too much trouble.

    Magura

    Wow, I'm really surprised by peoples input. Do any of you remember the first edition suspension forks...Mag 20? It was a piece of ****; Judy...not much better, I had a RST ??? with 3.5" on a hardtail in 1997. That fork was flexy, the fork action was dependent upon ambient temperature...basically garbage. It was still better than the rigid fork my bike came with; my riding improved...and I really appreciate the current forks, even with their current problems

    I just bought a Fox DOSS; I don't have any time on it yet, and yes that lever is ugly and obtrusive. I'm having a hard time finding a location for it.

    I'm thinking about the KS LEV for my girlfriends bike. She has narrow bars, because she is narrow She doesn't have room for an additional control on her bars. The integrated lever into the clamp on grip is ingenious. This is a must for people with narrow bars.

    Happy New Year

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdubsl2 View Post
    All I'm saying is you could've left the part about making excuses to not spend $300 out and still received an answer to your question. I was going to include some information on why a lowered seat will improve your riding, but I didn't want to insult your intelligence. It is pretty basic mountain biking theory, after all.
    When I read Kneivel's post I thought I read that keeping his seat higher was making him a better rider, which is what prompted my question. I have a dropper and I am sold on it's benefits. There were some good responses on bike control with the seat higher, but for the times I use it at Downieville, Ashland and other areas, it's perfect. Thanks!

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Lot od uninformed and one sided opinions in this thread. There are a lot of people who swear by seat droppers, you will see these people slam their seat all the way down on every descent no matter what the trail, you usually see these people sitting on the slammed seat, or standing off the saddle with locked legs. These are usually the guys who swear they could never ride without a dropper, even tho theyre riding incorrectly.

    Then you have the xc guys who swear seat droppers are a waste and who needs em. These are the people you see either going at a snails pace way behind thier seat, barely able to hold onto the bars, dragging brakes, or are constantly going over the nars, or simply just walk their bikes down tech sections.

    Seat droppers reward the roders with proper techmiques and fundamental skills, lowering it according to the trails demands, and using the extra cockpit room to squat into the bike to pump, lower cg, and to let the bike move underneath them.

    So instead of spewing one sided arguments on the cons and pros of seat droppers, realize that there are many types of riding and riders and a tool like a seat dropper can be very beneficial if used in the correct manner. The best riders can ride fast with the seat up, and even faster with it down.
    Absolutely agreed Yody!

    Using a dropper post is not just about trying your saddle low once in a while. It is about learning how to do tech terrain and learning how to corner. Think of your body as the key ball of energy that has to be reloaded over and over. That it the key reason why a dropper post is important.

    This is a good primer:


  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle mama View Post
    Originally Posted by Mr.Magura
    Reliability is really hit and miss still, and it seems to continue that way for a long time.
    ......
    Till then, not really. Too much trouble.

    Magura

    Wow, I'm really surprised by peoples input. Do any of you remember the first edition suspension forks...Mag 20? It was a piece of ****; Judy...not much better, I had a RST ??? with 3.5" on a hardtail in 1997. That fork was flexy, the fork action was dependent upon ambient temperature...basically garbage. It was still better than the rigid fork my bike came with; my riding improved...and I really appreciate the current forks, even with their current problems


    Happy New Year

    I sure recall the first suspension forks

    What I also recall, is that development meant at least trying something new, in order to move forward. Each year meant a step forward. In like 5-7 years, things went from scratch to something close to what we have today.
    The last 10 years, it's been small refinements for forks, nothing really ground breaking.

    The dropper posts are changing marginally from year to year, but the basic issues are not dealt with.
    On top of that, I find it hard to understand why all these issues are there in the first place?
    Most of the technology, can be found in tried and tested solutions, either in forks, or in the industrial sector.
    On top of that, I find it odd to say the least, that no frame manufacturer so far, has figured to build in a dropper system in the frame yet.
    The dropper post as an "add on", is not exactly the answer to my prayers, as saddle angle is ignored. The saddle must move backward when dropped, and the nose of the saddle must move a bit upwards, to still fit the rider in that position.


    Magura

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    The dropper posts are changing marginally from year to year, but the basic issues are not dealt with.
    On top of that, I find it hard to understand why all these issues are there in the first place?
    Most of the technology, can be found in tried and tested solutions, either in forks, or in the industrial sector.
    On top of that, I find it odd to say the least, that no frame manufacturer so far, has figured to build in a dropper system in the frame yet.
    The dropper post as an "add on", is not exactly the answer to my prayers, as saddle angle is ignored. The saddle must move backward when dropped, and the nose of the saddle must move a bit upwards, to still fit the rider in that position.


    Magura
    What sells? Product that can be bolted onto any bike. Product that adheres to industry standards so that it can interoperate, and sell broadly. Who can produce a bike with an integrated seat dropper solution? Big bike companies with lots of R&D and manufacturing muscle and paid riders who can test and prove it at a high level. Would a bicycle with an integrated seat dropper be more expensive, have a smaller market share, and require more one-off engineering? Yes. Will it make more money? No.

    Come up with something that most people can bolt onto their bike, you've got a product. Build something that works best, but will sell a handful of products? Interesting historical footnote!



    There's a lot of that in the bike industry. Bring it together in the middle; gold. If it's so good, and you provide something like a new industry standard around it that bike companies can and will support, you might make some money and the idea might live.

    Repeating myself, but I totally dig the Reverb. Rode my SS yesterday and the Gravitydropper Descender with 3" drop and the button on the post did its job.

    Morgan

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    I'm still looking for a post that automatically goes down...
    I think you might be interested in the Kronos post if that's one of the features you want

    I ran into a guy yesterday, with a Kronos...it was stuck in the down position; it wouldn't come back up. He said it was the 3rd time this had happened. I don't know how much maintenance is required, nor if he did any? I think I'll pass on the Kronos though.

  24. #124
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    The Thomson will likely be a good post, but there will be problems with it. Everyone thought the Reverb would be flawless, but it wasn't. The DOSS probably has its share of problems, but we'll never know since it's so damn expensive and won't get much market share.

    If you want a reliable post now, go with a brand that has been building them for 5+ years (except Crank Bros).
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    ...People thought they were getting a good fork because it was a "fox".

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkenshin View Post
    I found the dropper was indispensable for socal riding, but I just don't really know if it's all that useful for local trails around here. We just don't have as much gnar interspersed with our flowy single track. I was just thinking how many times did I really need to use it at skeggs today and would my ride have been that much less fun with out it in terms of weight penalty.
    Okay... this was the BIGGEST factor for me. There is nothing I can't hit (or willing to walk around ) on the trails I ride that would warrant a dropper post. I don't travel to ride - and I only ride a handful of trail systems. So, hitting the "gnar" around the country is probably something I wouldn't even do, ever.

    But again, I don't even have a full suspension bike and I just recently (like a week ago) got a 10sp. cassette - and that's on my CX bike. Until this last month, the longest travel I had on any bike was 130mm. Now I have a 150mm on my 456 - and I don't even use all of that.

    All my bikes are heavy'ish, steel, and cheap. I've never owned a carbon fiber mountain bike or any go fast products like that. The "raciest" item I own would be my Stan's Wheels.

    I guess my point is this: I've only seriously been riding MTB's for 3 years. All the bikes I have, down to the 1986 Rockhopper Comp I mostly ride, are better than me. And then, my climbing is still back-of-mid-pack - at best.

    I'm signed up for the Cat3 Clydesdale class for SeaOtter. And I'll be lucky to finish well there.

    Do I need a dropper post? No. I need to be a better rider with what I have FIRST and then maybe considering something like a dropper post once I get my fitness in check. I am no where near the level of riding where a dropper post would be necessary to shave off time.

    Downhill is not my issue. Uphill is. It's where I always get dropped. I don't get dropped descending unless I'm on my 1986 bike (around here).

    Personally, for me... I'd be wasting my money if I were to go with a dropper post - and fooling myself thinking that a $300 upgrade would make me any better - I'm not at that level.

    I guess for you guys who are at that level, it would make a difference. My overall riding needs to improve first - ESPECIALLY my climbing. I am clearly not ready for a dropper post - it will be like airbrushing six-pack abs on my belly... just faking it.

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