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  1. #76
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    A yellow light legally means 'Clear the intersection'.
    Where the heck does it say so?

    Legally, what I am supposed to know is California Driver handbook. That is what a reasonable person uses to make decisions on a road.

    It says.

    Solid Yellow– A yellow signal light means "CAUTION." The red signal is about to appear. When you see the yellow light, stop if you can do so safely. If you cannot stop safely, cross the intersection cautiously.
    How the heck can you interpret that any differently than what it says?

  2. #77
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    here we go gross negligence , good chance upping it to felony

    "Police sources tell us the file forwarded to the district attorney includes the name and number of a motorist who reported seeing Bucchere and another cyclist fly through several red lights and stop signs before the deadly Castro district crash
    sfgate

  3. #78
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    I used to do the trek from Twin Peaks -> Market -> work on lower Market (4th and Market) quite a bit, many moons ago. The two entities that caused me the most risk were Muni and other cyclists. Fixies/messengers/riders like this guy being amongst the worst.

    If you are biking on a busy city street, especially coming down a hill where peds, other cars, etc. are likely to be, you better be riding at a speed where you can stop as needed when the unexpected happens. The above note about the motorist seeing negligent behavior, I hope the guy gets the book thrown at him.

    People like this are the ones that make it more dangerous for other cyclists on the road.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Where the heck does it say so?

    Legally, what I am supposed to know is California Driver handbook. That is what a reasonable person uses to make decisions on a road.

    It says.


    How the heck can you interpret that any differently than what it says?
    Yep, thank you. +1. SF is not special regarding its yellow light laws...they are the same everywhere (although the timing may be slightly different from area to area.)

    Quote Originally Posted by natrat View Post
    here we go gross negligence , good chance upping it to felony

    "Police sources tell us the file forwarded to the district attorney includes the name and number of a motorist who reported seeing Bucchere and another cyclist fly through several red lights and stop signs before the deadly Castro district crash
    sfgate


    Quote Originally Posted by grumblingcrustacean View Post

    People like this are the ones that make it more dangerous for other cyclists on the road.
    Absolutely.


    But what gets me is the fact that the intersection is absolutely huge. I've driven and ridden through it many times. You have plenty of time to stop before you get to the other side, even at 35 mph.

    Sounds like he was trying to race through the red, and didn't make it.

  5. #80
    Slowest Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Sounds like he was trying to race through the red, and didn't make it.
    Agreed. This whole discussion on "yellow light" laws may be moot as I suspect "yellow light" is just the favorite excuse for "red light".

    And Bucchere was running red lights just before. And running his mouth off on the web. Only smart thing he's done so far is hire himself a top law firm. Maybe they'll explain to him how to behave. Or a few years in prison to reflect may help.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    But what gets me is the fact that the intersection is absolutely huge. I've driven and ridden through it many times. You have plenty of time to stop before you get to the other side, even at 35 mph.

    Sounds like he was trying to race through the red, and didn't make it.
    Unfortunately, there is no simple way for the biking community to pass on the message of "we are really sorry for your loss, please don't judge all bikers. this particular individual is an a-hole, please stick it to him in every way possible".

    Sad thing is, even as this story makes it's way around the cycling community, there are people that pull the same **** -- running reds/stop signs/etc. from SF down to SCruz -- that won't connect this situation with possibilities around their own actions.

    -j

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    I would think it's possible. However, the whole proof of device ownership, IP addresses, timestamps and such. It could get ugly, but could provide some circumstantial evidence.
    I would think GPX data would be too inaccurate. I've had Strava log me up to 70km/h on some downhills when I know I didn't go anywhere near that fast. A good defense lawyer would tear Strava evidence to bits.

  8. #83
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    I guess I won't be running any lights on my commute this week.

  9. #84
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    Quick note: KQED Forum on this subject starting at 9:05am. 88.5 FM here. Can listen online at KQED.org.
    Inch by inch, I will get there! (See my rides and stuff here.)

  10. #85
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  12. #87
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    The next time I go to SF and plan to walk I think I'll bring my helmet.
    :wq

  13. #88
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by IP_Ale View Post
    As it should be. Bikes are Vehicles under the code and as such should be treated the same way as a car and its driver. Nothing pisses me off more that riders that want to be treated well by cars/drivers "Share the Road" then blatantly blowing off every stop sign and red light. Let the trial make the final determination.
    Warning: Consumption of alcohol may make you think the person on the barstool next to you is attractive

  15. #90
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    Re: Cyclist strikes and kills pedestrian in SF

    Bicycles much safer than cars. Look at the difference in mass. Thats a ridiculous statement

    sent from one of my 4 gold leafed iphone4s's

  16. #91
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    Sort of Buzz, but not quite. Bikes can ride on sidewalks unless prohibited, they have to stay on the far right of the road and are allowed on the road at speeds that would get autos pulled over by the CHP, etc.

    Everything points to a moron biker blasting through stop signs, stop lights, etc just to get a Strava record...but even so, a bike killing a pedestrian is so rare that even with all those blatant violations the biker didn't expect to be capable of killing someone - so unlikely to get much of a sentence even if convicted. Just look at how few drivers get much of any sentence for killing a bicyclist or pedestrian in SF.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by locoyokel View Post
    Sort of Buzz, but not quite. Bikes can ride on sidewalks unless prohibited, they have to stay on the far right of the road and are allowed on the road at speeds that would get autos pulled over by the CHP, etc.

    Everything points to a moron biker blasting through stop signs, stop lights, etc just to get a Strava record...but even so, a bike killing a pedestrian is so rare that even with all those blatant violations the biker didn't expect to be capable of killing someone - so unlikely to get much of a sentence even if convicted. Just look at how few drivers get much of any sentence for killing a bicyclist or pedestrian in SF.
    read the whole section CA Codes (veh:21200-21212)

    Local governments can make modification in a local area allowing bicycles to use a sidewalk otherwise they cannot.

    VEHICLE CODE
    SECTION 21200-21212



    21200. (a) A person riding a bicycle or operating a pedicab upon a
    highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions
    applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division, including,
    but not limited to, provisions concerning driving under the influence
    of alcoholic beverages or drugs, and by Division 10 (commencing with
    Section 20000), Section 27400, Division 16.7 (commencing with
    Section 39000), Division 17 (commencing with Section 40000.1), and
    Division 18 (commencing with Section 42000), except those provisions
    which by their very nature can have no application.
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  18. #93
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    DMV handbook and website says otherwise - sidewalks open to bikes unless posted close. Unless it's changed lately, I don't have time to look it up now but I did a few months back.

  19. #94
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    The guy obviously was playing bike racer doing a TT on a busy public street in apparent disregard of whatever he figured didn't matter to his own little world. Suddenly gets shifted into consensual reality as he collides with someone in an intersection. All the debate about yellow lights and traffic law matters little in light of this bozos unconscious riding. I still bet he gets a bigger shaft than the sleeping sherrif who mowed down the group ride in Cupertino.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalitup View Post
    The guy obviously was playing bike racer doing a TT on a busy public street in apparent disregard of whatever he figured didn't matter to his ow I still bet he gets a bigger shaft than the sleeping sherrif who mowed down the group ride in Cupertino.
    I'd take that bet, but there is NO money in it.
    Honestly, you just take a deep breath and say Fuck it.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by locoyokel View Post
    DMV handbook and website says otherwise - sidewalks open to bikes unless posted close. Unless it's changed lately, I don't have time to look it up now but I did a few months back.
    Vehicle code would trump it, although it is a pretty poor case for anyone to try and enforce. Most places prohibit riding a bicycle on the sidewalk. A few have given out tickets for it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Where the heck does it say so?

    Legally, what I am supposed to know is California Driver handbook. That is what a reasonable person uses to make decisions on a road.
    Sometimes people get confused because other states have radically different laws. In AZ you can pull into an intersection all day if the light is yellow, and if it goes red while you are in there, it's everyone else's responsibility to not enter until you clear it. You "own" the intersection until you clear it, which is helpful for many of their unprotected left hand turns. Then there's the rule that if a pedestrian is not in the half of the crossing closest to you, you can blaze through there, no need to stop. So the point is people get these misperceptions because laws really are significantly different in other places often.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  23. #98
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    Dirtball did something stupid, he's paying the price.

    I agree with Buzz - a lot of cyclists flaunt the whole "share the rode, I am a vehicle" thing and then blow through stop signs and the like. The two items aren't related, beyond the overall attitude of entitlement.

    Personally, I hate riding road. Sometimes circumstances (weather/wife/etc) dictate a road ride. When we do, avoiding busy roads, but respecting the rules is the rule.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumblingcrustacean View Post
    Dirtball did something stupid, he's paying the price.

    I agree with Buzz - a lot of cyclists flaunt the whole "share the rode, I am a vehicle" thing and then blow through stop signs and the like. The two items aren't related, beyond the overall attitude of entitlement.

    Personally, I hate riding road. Sometimes circumstances (weather/wife/etc) dictate a road ride. When we do, avoiding busy roads, but respecting the rules is the rule.
    To me stop LIGHTS and stop signs (use your discretion) in low-traffic areas are two different animals.

    I will run stop-signs in my neighborhood all day long (provided the cross-traffic is clear). If there is a car, I will stop - and from my observation, in my area, most do (95%?)

    A lot of the cager misconception has to come from while possibly being behind a cyclist who is not slowing for a right, or proceeding through an intersection; when it was totally safe to do so
    - cagers don't have the advantage of awareness like cyclist's do, so they think that we are scoffing laws, but it really makes sense ... even, scientifically

    Why Cyclists Blow Through Stop Signs: It's Physics : TreeHugger
    Honestly, you just take a deep breath and say Fuck it.

  25. #100
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    And you think that no one sees you, but they do, and you contribute to the problem. Lots of people rationalize it. Few have any good reasons for it. The more we do it, the more no one follows any rules.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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