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  1. #1
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    Culvert Trail: WTF Happened?!

    Returned from AZ for the first time in two years and rode Culvert the other day.

    Jesuz, WTF happened? Thanks to the volunteers and all, but who the fock owned the new design? It is *horrid*. Took out everything fun I loved with the old trail. Any reason it had to be constructed like a bowling alley on acid? Whats wrong with rocks & roots?

    Someone else better design the next project in Auburn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcentric View Post
    Returned from AZ for the first time in two years and rode Culvert the other day.

    Jesuz, WTF happened? Thanks to the volunteers and all, but who the fock owned the new design? It is *horrid*. Took out everything fun I loved with the old trail. Any reason it had to be constructed like a bowling alley on acid? Whats wrong with rocks & roots?
    The more a trail sucks the less a spode does.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  3. #3
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    A few others have posted in previous threads that they are not as fond of the new, improved Culvert...of course 'ya can't please everyone, and naturally not everyone shares your opinion.
    I now live near and ride Culvert a few to several times a month and really enjoy the trail and am appreciative of all the volunteers that made it happen.
    Here is a link to the agencies responsible if you really want to voice your opinion directly to them. Culvert Trail Project - Quick update
    and How to build a Culvert Trail berm just right!

    Who knows, maybe based on your impassioned plea they may rework it and painstakingly restore it to its original condition, just for you.

    Good Luck and welcome to the forum.
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  4. #4
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    The trend does seem to be less rocks and roots and more smoothness.
    I like to ride bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcentric View Post
    Returned from AZ for the first time in two years and rode Culvert the other day.

    Jesuz, WTF happened? Thanks to the volunteers and all, but who the fock owned the new design? It is *horrid*. Took out everything fun I loved with the old trail. Any reason it had to be constructed like a bowling alley on acid? Whats wrong with rocks & roots?

    Someone else better design the next project in Auburn.
    you are entitled to your opinion of course, and I love rocks and roots too, but I happen to really enjoy the new design. I find I can get my rock & root fill elsewhere, and now on Culvert I have a place to get my berm & flow fix too.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    you are entitled to your opinion of course, and I love rocks and roots too, but I happen to really enjoy the new design. I find I can get my rock & root fill elsewhere, and now on Culvert I have a place to get my berm & flow fix too.
    That's a good point. I bet there are more rock and root trails than there are burm and flow trails.
    Personally I learned to ride in New England. When I first moved to CA I was super excited to get away from all the rocks and roots. Now I miss the rocks and roots and will go out of my way to find them. But mostly I end up at Demo.
    I like to ride bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    you are entitled to your opinion of course, and I love rocks and roots too, but I happen to really enjoy the new design. I find I can get my rock & root fill elsewhere, and now on Culvert I have a place to get my berm & flow fix too.
    +1

    p

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by otis24 View Post
    That's a good point. I bet there are more rock and root trails than there are burm and flow trails.
    Personally I learned to ride in New England. When I first moved to CA I was super excited to get away from all the rocks and roots. Now I miss the rocks and roots and will go out of my way to find them. But mostly I end up at Demo.
    Murder's trail is a stupid fun alternate route if you need a rock fix. And it's tech makes the old Culvert look like a smooth "bowling alley on acid" (which it pretty much was).

    P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    Murder's trail is a stupid fun alternate route if you need a rock fix. And it's tech makes the old Culvert look like a smooth "bowling alley on acid" (which it pretty much was).

    P
    I agree, Murderers (not Murders) is a good tech trail in the area, but even it has been a bit "sanitized" in the last few years. Also, the old Culvert was hardly smooth unlike the new Culvert.

    Even though I'm no fan of so called flow trails (read:smooth ribbons), I have no objections to them being built. What I DO object to is replacing old established trails with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbnutty View Post
    Even though I'm no fan of so called flow trails (read:smooth ribbons), I have no objections to them being built. What I DO object to is replacing old established trails with them.
    *exactly*

  11. #11
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    Culvert Trail: WTF Happened?!

    I for one have really grown to love the new Culvert trail. I've been riding that trail for 15 years and always enjoyed its roughness. I was skeptical of the changes at first, but now that I've learned how to ride a flow trail properly, I've grown to love the new Culvert.

    With that said, I still love good rocky and techy trails and Auburn has plenty of them. A recent fav of mine is Grizzly trail. Auburn is great, you can link a bunch of trails together and get everything from long easy climbs, hard techy climbs, gnarly rocky scary DH, and fast flowy trails with a few fun features. All in one ride. Pretty awesome if you ask me.

    I don't miss the old Culvert anymore.


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    The old culvert was a "rough" trail? Seriously? Has anyone ever seen ANY technical riding? Rough and technical, the old culvert was not. Fun and fast, it was. Sure, there were a few rocks within and places to air off of, but it was hardly "rough". In the end, people are lazy and it's far easier to build a flat/smooth trail with a trail dragon than hack out interesting singletrack by hand for the most part.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by S.O.B. View Post
    A few others have posted in previous threads that they are not as fond of the new, improved Culvert...of course 'ya can't please everyone, and naturally not everyone shares your opinion.
    I now live near and ride Culvert a few to several times a month and really enjoy the trail and am appreciative of all the volunteers that made it happen.
    Here is a link to the agencies responsible if you really want to voice your opinion directly to them. Culvert Trail Project - Quick update
    and How to build a Culvert Trail berm just right!

    Who knows, maybe based on your impassioned plea they may rework it and painstakingly restore it to its original condition, just for you.

    Good Luck and welcome to the forum.
    if your being sacrastic, I can't tell......................he has a seriously good reason to complain, anyone who didn't know it was reworked into the beginner trail that it is now would be right to come to a local section of a forum to ask wtf?? Yeah, it's ok now, the more you ride it, but really, it's much worse than it was.............S curves on flat with tiny burms do not a fun trail make.............
    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

  14. #14
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    Just have to appreciate it for what it is and it isn't so bad.

    Jordan Lopez-ONE Industries Rider Training for Oregon Enduro Series - YouTube

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    saw some guys on road bikes riding it a few weeks back.

    lold

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    nice video, proves how slow the trail is by how much you're having to pedal.........again, it's not a bad trail, it's just so much worse than before, and with all that space had such potential. It's truly and example of how not to design a trail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich H. View Post
    Just have to appreciate it for what it is and it isn't so bad.

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  17. #17
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    Culvert Trail: WTF Happened?!

    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    nice video, proves how slow the trail is by how much you're having to pedal.........again, it's not a bad trail, it's just so much worse than before, and with all that space had such potential. It's truly and example of how not to design a trail.
    You don't have to pedal, maybe two short spots. It shows that he was hauling (or maybe that I'm really slow)
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  18. #18
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    yeah, you don't "have" to pedal, but given the descent and length, you shouldn't need to, the trail doesn't "flow", you can't really "pump" ..............and I know, people will tell me how they can, etc etc............but it's not as good as it could be.......and it's not as fast as it was..............it's ok, I don't ride it anymore, I stick with the trails into Mammoth ...... things change, and I'm not looking for someone to do anything, I just hope this kind of thing doesn't happen again, a GREAT opportunity was screwed up with whomever designed this new trail
    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    ...and it's not as fast as it was...
    No Shit! That was part of State Parks requirements for the realignment that State Parks requested!


    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    ...I just hope this kind of thing doesn't happen again, a GREAT opportunity was screwed up with whomever designed this new trail
    I'm glad that you can state the you don't like the trail, therefor the designer screwed up the trail. Nice sense of entitlement.

    The trail was executed to fit certain design criteria. The old Culvert was so ruined and fast, it was asked to be changed. It was changed within the requests of State Parks. The trail is professionally built and sustainable - and for State Parks, safer for riders and multiuse.

    I'm ok with e-whining that you don't like it. But you can't say the designer "screwed up". Because they didn't. They did what was required.

    I thought we had covered all of this in the other thread...

    P

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    No Shit! That was part of State Parks requirements for the realignment that State Parks requested!

    I'm glad that you can state the you don't like the trail, therefor the designer screwed up the trail. Nice sense of entitlement.

    The trail was executed to fit certain design criteria. The old Culvert was so ruined and fast, it was asked to be changed. It was changed within the requests of State Parks. The trail is professionally built and sustainable - and for State Parks, safer for riders and multiuse.

    I'm ok with e-whining that you don't like it. But you can't say the designer "screwed up". Because they didn't. They did what was required.

    P
    Are you the designer?? why are you hurt over this?? Really, the current way it was done is the "ONLY" way huh? I don't believe that, but that's ok......it's obvious that a lot of people don't like it, I hope that's taken into consideration the next time the opportunity comes up to rebuild a trail. I'm not personally attacking the designer, I am attacking the design.......I don't care what the back story is, or that it had to comply with something or other........i'm merely stating it isn't fun and could have been better...whatever person, people, or agency kept it from being good, I hope they listen.........if they dont, whatever, it's not the only trail around, it's just a shame, that's all.............
    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post

    safer for riders and multiuse.


    P
    Judging from the video posted above, this new trail most certainly accomplishes that.................
    Last edited by mtbnutty; 05-17-2013 at 02:48 PM.

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    Personally, I really like the work Greg Wells did with FATRAC, Sean Allan and others on the Connector Trail years back. It would be good to bring in Greg's design expertise to future projects if he is available (I know he retired, but he used to consult). The Connector Trail is a well-loved trail from what I've observed.

    Also, the Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship does great trail design/building and has a licensed/insured mechanized crew + big volunteer base available for projects just like this. They produce excellent work.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich H. View Post
    Just have to appreciate it for what it is and it isn't so bad.

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    Knee pads and moto goggles, really?
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbnutty View Post
    Judging from the video posted above, this new trail most certainly accomplishes that.................
    Can you go that fast on that trail?

    I can't.

    Neither can you. And the vast majority of other riders.

    That is why that video is so impressive.

    Try again.

    P

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Knee pads and moto goggles, really?
    Hellz yeah brah, toad-alley helps when you're shreddin' gnar fire roads!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    Are you the designer?? why are you hurt over this?? Really, the current way it was done is the "ONLY" way huh? I don't believe that, but that's ok......it's obvious that a lot of people don't like it, I hope that's taken into consideration the next time the opportunity comes up to rebuild a trail. I'm not personally attacking the designer, I am attacking the design.......I don't care what the back story is, or that it had to comply with something or other........i'm merely stating it isn't fun and could have been better...whatever person, people, or agency kept it from being good, I hope they listen.........if they dont, whatever, it's not the only trail around, it's just a shame, that's all.............
    I'm not the designer.

    But there are plenty of designers, builders and volunteers reading these threads.

    Who, now, will want to volunteer to work on a pre-existing trail with all the whining?

    Don't lift a shovel or a phone, but run to MTBR saying the design sucks. That sends a good message to all those who spent many hours of their own time volunteering, working on this trail and trails to come.

    Nobody is getting rich off this.

    This is not a product you are purchasing, this was built by people who gave up their time and effort for the MTB community.

    Be thankful for what you have.

    If you are not... Contribute to make it better.


    Infighting will kill us.

    P

  27. #27
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    Are we having a pissing contest now? The OP stated the trail isn't as good as it was...........we got a video of a sponsored Enduro rider going fast.........what the hell are you being snarky about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    Can you go that fast on that trail?

    I can't.

    Neither can you. And the vast majority of other riders.

    That is why that video is so impressive.

    Try again.

    P
    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

  28. #28
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    But you are the one fighting..........I think that most people agree, it's not as good as it was, and I've heard from pro builders that it could have been better. And do you know if I ever help, participate, or do anything past coming here?? No, you do not..........I don't want to argue, but if my opinion isn't allowed because it might hurt someones feelings on the internet, well that's just laughable........I'm glad you like the trail........I do not...........And for anyone that designs and volunteers..........thanks, but if your build something be prepared for not everyone to bow down to you if it's not fun..........I've built crap before, and people have let me know, and I'm glad, that way I can learn from my mistakes.........and yeah, you can't please everyone, but in the case of Culvert, I'd say it's not a small number that are bothered...........I'll bow out from this, as we're going in circles........OP, you are not alone in your thoughts. and MrP thanks for volunteering

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    I'm not the designer.

    But there are plenty of designers, builders and volunteers reading these threads.

    Who, now, will want to volunteer to work on a pre-existing trail with all the whining?

    Don't lift a shovel or a phone, but run to MTBR saying the design sucks. That sends a good message to all those who spent many hours of their own time volunteering, working on this trail and trails to come.

    Nobody is getting rich off this.

    This is not a product you are purchasing, this was built by people who gave up their time and effort for the MTB community.

    Be thankful for what you have.

    If you are not... Contribute to make it better.


    Infighting will kill us.

    P
    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    Can you go that fast on that trail?

    I can't.

    Neither can you. And the vast majority of other riders.

    That is why that video is so impressive.

    Try again.

    P

    Good god man, you completely missed the point. Let me make this simple.

    You stated that the trail is "safer for rider and multiuse".

    Well, the a$$hat in the video clearly demonstrates otherwise.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbnutty View Post
    Good god man, you completely missed the point. Let me make this simple.

    You stated that the trail is "safer for rider and multiuse".

    Well, the a$$hat in the video clearly demonstrates otherwise.
    My god man, that is one rider... a pro... none of us can get close to being that fast.

    Are there hundreds of pros railing down the trail?

    No.

    P

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    I think that most people agree, it's not as good as it was, and I've heard from pro builders that it could have been better.
    The most people I've spoken with dig it, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

    I'm ok that you don't like it.

    And feel free to express it, just do it through better channels (email the builder!)

    MTBR is not the place for it. (too much hiding behind keyboards & forums induce people to say things they would not normally say... and it's public, which can be used against us)

    Think about the bigger picture of future builds, designers, builders, volunteers, land managers, opposing groups...

    P

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    My god man, that is one rider... a pro... none of us can get close to being that fast.

    Are there hundreds of WANNABE pros railing down the trail?

    ahem, YES

    P
    Fixed it for ya. Over and out....................

  33. #33
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    Culvert Trail: WTF Happened?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    I'm not the designer.

    But there are plenty of designers, builders and volunteers reading these threads.

    Who, now, will want to volunteer to work on a pre-existing trail with all the whining?

    Don't lift a shovel or a phone, but run to MTBR saying the design sucks. That sends a good message to all those who spent many hours of their own time volunteering, working on this trail and trails to come.
    This is the norm when dealing with local trail work. Happens every time a major trail modification is done. Nothing new about it at all.
    A bunch of armchair quarterbacks that do nothing more than ***** and moan about work they did nothing for.


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  34. #34
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    Personally, I think its OK for people to share perspective about trails, both old and new. What they like and dislike. And I think it is very important that feedback should be heard from the user base.

    I like how in another thread John Svahn of the Truckee Donner Land Trust stated that he helped build a trail that received less than stellar reviews. He was honest, humble and accepting of it.

    John S is a super great trail builder, btw and I've had the privilege of working with him on Donner Lake Rim Trail and other Truckee projects. I hope we can work together again on the DLRT this summer with FATRAC, MBOSC and others.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    Are you the designer?? why are you hurt over this?? Really, the current way it was done is the "ONLY" way huh? I don't believe that, but that's ok......it's obvious that a lot of people don't like it, I hope that's taken into consideration the next time the opportunity comes up to rebuild a trail. I'm not personally attacking the designer, I am attacking the design.......I don't care what the back story is, or that it had to comply with something or other........i'm merely stating it isn't fun and could have been better...whatever person, people, or agency kept it from being good, I hope they listen.........if they dont, whatever, it's not the only trail around, it's just a shame, that's all.............
    NOT FUN! I loved the old trail, but to say it's not fun is a joke! I have not heard 1person say it is not fun. It's not fun for you probably because you can't ride anything but a straight line and that's ok! You should practice some and you will enjoy mountain biking even more.
    How can riding your bike in auburn not be fun!!

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    Two things:

    1) If you are disappointed in the design of the new trail and say so, it does not make you a hater/whiner/lazy/monday AM quarterback/instigator/troublemaker. Dismissing people like this is WEAK. We (the users) are gonna talk, and you should listen... even if you don't like what we say.

    2) Look at the reaction to the design of the Tamarancho trail. People love it. Why? Because it was designed right.

    Hoping the next trail is designed by another. That is all.

  37. #37
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    Culvert Trail: WTF Happened?!

    Quote Originally Posted by memine View Post
    Personally, I really like the work Greg Wells did with FATRAC, Sean Allan and others on the Connector Trail years back. It would be good to bring in Greg's design expertise to future projects if he is available (I know he retired, but he used to consult). The Connector Trail is a well-loved trail from what I've observed.

    Also, the Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship does great trail design/building and has a licensed/insured mechanized crew + big volunteer base available for projects just like this. They produce excellent work.
    Interesting that you bring up both Greg Wells and Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship.
    They both participated in a trail work day at Granite Bay yesterday.
    It was my understanding that we will be seeing both of them working in the Folsom/Auburn area a lot more in the near future.


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  38. #38
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    Culvert Trail: WTF Happened?!

    This is a cool thread. I rode the old culvert trail. I haven't ridden the new one.

    Just a quick take on things.

    It's hard to hurt trail builders feelings. There is so much going on people don't realize. I often hear people complain and the more I learn the more the complaints sound well sophomoric. The challenge of a trail builder is to make a complainer a volunteer.

    The best way to change a trail you don't like is to volunteer. It is a powerful thing. If you dedicate yourself and commit to an area you can have a real impact but don't expect it all to change overnight. The upside is the path will make you a better rider and a better person.

    The irony is that once you are down the path far enough sooner or later someone will be trash talking "your trail". The wheel of life goes round and round like mountain bike wheels.

    New trails are rare. Getting permission to redo an old trail is way easier. In fact this is where most of the action will be in the future for a lot of reasons. Get ready for change. Trails will change with changing riding styles.

    Speaking of constant change. Trails are always changing. If you don't like it wait a winter or two. Wait less if you volunteer and you can direct the change. Trails are not museums. Well maybe in Marin they are. In my opinion trails that are changing due to hard work indicate a healthy mountain bike community. Change that favors bikes should make us all proud. Even if it isn't the change you want.

  39. #39
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    Well for what it's worth, me and a few of my buddies started at the divide trail and rode up and then all the way down to the Culvert/Confluence. It was all our first time riding the Culvert since the re-build, and every single one of us was VERY satisfied with the changes they made. I have been reading threads like this and wasn't sure what to expect, but it was unanimous that we all loved it. No question, my 4 buddies and I are all fans, so... yeah.

  40. #40
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    As part of my volunteer work on the new Scott's Flat Trail near Nevada City, I've surveyed the new trail in preparation for the trail easement (my work is not quite done yet).

    I think people will be very pleased with how the SFT project is turning out once it opens officially. Very different than Culvert. Some of the same people from FTA worked hard on both trails (from what Steve Minnear tells me, FTA heavily influenced the much-discussed design of the Culvert Trail).

    The Scott's Flat Trail benefitted from the hard work of Dieter, Matt, Randy and some other great people (BONC, YBONC) not as closely tied to the Culvert project and that may have made the difference on how well it is turning out (?), who knows. In any case, thanks to everyone who has worked on SFT, both on and off the dirt.

    A bunch of people on the SFT project put in lots and lots of hours (think 100+ hours) but never moved any dirt. Their kind of effort is crucial but often overlooked when credit is handed out, which is too bad.

    Even though the new Culvert design does not appeal to me at all, I thank those who volunteered on the project. As I said before, it will likely evolve quickly and hopefully for the best.

  41. #41
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    Culvert Trail: WTF Happened?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    Interesting that you bring up both Greg Wells and Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship.
    They both participated in a trail work day at Granite Bay yesterday.
    It was my understanding that we will be seeing both of them working in the Folsom/Auburn area a lot more in the near future.


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    Dude, what happened out there?? I rode that section and it was totally ruined! That used to be my favorite trail!
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

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    Culvert Trail: WTF Happened?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzaro View Post
    Dude, what happened out there?? I rode that section and it was totally ruined! That used to be my favorite trail!
    I saw you checking things out.

    Good luck on riding that line any time soon.


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    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

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    Culvert Trail: WTF Happened?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    I saw you checking things out.

    Good luck on riding that line any time soon.


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    Sorry, meant that as a joke in reference to all the ongoing trail work drama. I was chatting with Empty about the work being done out there and the WST/TS100 drama. I appreciate the work being done on the trails I enjoy.
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  44. #44
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    Culvert Trail: WTF Happened?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzaro View Post
    Sorry, meant that as a joke in reference to all the ongoing trail work drama.
    I know. I don't get many smileys to work with on Tapatalk so everything comes across way too serious.
    Still, you should have grabbed a Pulaski and ripped up some dirt with us.


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  45. #45
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    wow, what an ass you are.........you don't know me, nor my riding, so if you are somehow hurt by what I post on the internet, leave it be man..........don't attack my ability it has nothing to do with the content of this thread, thanks......

    Quote Originally Posted by napa View Post
    NOT FUN! I loved the old trail, but to say it's not fun is a joke! I have not heard 1person say it is not fun. It's not fun for you probably because you can't ride anything but a straight line and that's ok! You should practice some and you will enjoy mountain biking even more.
    How can riding your bike in auburn not be fun!!
    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by memine View Post
    As part of my volunteer work on the new Scott's Flat Trail near Nevada City, I've surveyed the new trail in preparation for the trail easement (my work is not quite done yet).

    I think people will be very pleased with how the SFT project is turning out once it opens officially. Very different than Culvert. Some of the same people from FTA worked hard on both trails (from what Steve Minnear tells me, FTA heavily influenced the much-discussed design of the Culvert Trail).

    The Scott's Flat Trail benefitted from the hard work of Dieter, Matt, Randy and some other great people (BONC, YBONC) not as closely tied to the Culvert project and that may have made the difference on how well it is turning out (?), who knows. In any case, thanks to everyone who has worked on SFT, both on and off the dirt.

    A bunch of people on the SFT project put in lots and lots of hours (think 100+ hours) but never moved any dirt. Their kind of effort is crucial but often overlooked when credit is handed out, which is too bad.

    Even though the new Culvert design does not appeal to me at all, I thank those who volunteered on the project. As I said before, it will likely evolve quickly and hopefully for the best.
    I went back through this thread and counted 9 that like the trail and 5 that don't like it.

    FTA is very proud of the work we did on the Culvert, as we should be, we worked our butts off. But it wasn't only because of dirt moved or berms shaped, or designs executed, It was also because we had a positive work relationship with ASRA, FATRAC, and the different local riders who cared enough to pitch in. And it wasn't easy, there were alot of design disagreements that we had to work through. Remember, trail builder's have criteria to follow if they want to get a trail built, yet alone be invited to build more. You have to consider the land and how it will be impacted. You need to consider user groups, bikes, hiker's, etc you need to consider what the land manager's want. This might come as a surprise, but excitement for riders doesn't top the list. It makes sense then that FTA was chosen, because we have a consistent track record of good working relations with land manager's and different user groups, as well as designing and building fun and engaging trails that try to strike a balance within the guidelines that we need to adhere to. Remember the days of the old Culvert trail were numbered, and something needed to happen.

    As far as Scott's is concerned,I am fully aware of volunteer hours and also the amount of hours I spent working on this project. The credit for me, and the other volunteers that I work with, is not only the incredible new trail that we will soon have in our community, but also the prospect of building more trails. Both the Culvert and Scott's is a positive step in the right direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    Interesting that you bring up both Greg Wells and Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship.
    They both participated in a trail work day at Granite Bay yesterday.
    It was my understanding that we will be seeing both of them working in the Folsom/Auburn area a lot more in the near future.
    Very cool. I am trying to get them involved with local Land Trust projects as well.

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    Sure, changes to Culvert were needed, they just needed to be not crap changes that sanitized the trail. If you don't understand that, maybe you shouldn't be driving trail machinery and paving wide a** flat trails and calling yourself an "elite trailbuilder".

  49. #49
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    Easy Johnny, take your Ritalin, your starting to foam at the mouth. what's done is done. Next time do what most concerned, mature individuals do when they want to affect a change, get involved. Stop whining like a spoiled little privileged brat and go help an old lady cross the street or something. I tried in my earlier post to address you like an adult, but I guess my perception was a little off. Well, That tends to happen when you can't look at the person you are talking to. We have heard your 1/2 cents worth of criticism, can we move on now?


    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcentric View Post
    Sure, changes to Culvert were needed, they just needed to be not crap changes that sanitized the trail. If you don't understand that, maybe you shouldn't be driving trail machinery and paving wide a** flat trails and calling yourself an "elite trailbuilder".

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    I enjoy the Culvert improvements and greatly appreciate the efforts of those improving trails for cycling. There are several trail access issues that have troubled me lately from equestrians, State Parks, and other restrictions on cycling. Yet, I have the opportunity ride several local trails purpose built for cycling such as FDLT, connector, and other various trails from Auburn to the Sierras. Additional cycling trails are coming online such as Culvert improvements, Scott's Flat, and Hidden Falls. I do what I can to support these efforts, and appreciate the dedication and results of the the devoted advocates.

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