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  1. #1
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    Broken Ti Frames ?

    Broken Ti Frames ?-img_0643.jpgSoares just found this guy to weld my Lynskey Ti frame. He does them all the time and will knock it out same day for me. 20/40 will be taken care of by April after all! Address: Suite D, 2520 Wyandotte Street, Mountain View, CA 94043
    Phone650) 969-2460 Thanks Joeseppi !
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  2. #2
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    Bill Holland welds them down here in San Diego. My friend is having his Serotta fixed. It broke around the BB/chainstay yoke.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    Bill Holland welds them down here in San Diego. My friend is having his Serotta fixed. It broke around the BB/chainstay yoke.
    Cool ! It may sound crazy but ...That 26er SS Lynskey is near and dear to me and it broke my heart when it cracked!
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  4. #4
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    Nice to know. Last month, I gave away to a metal recycler my comped 1994 Clark Kent F 12 because of a twice fixed (by Clark Kent) crack in the seat tube/top tube joint.
    Broke my heart, but it was more to fix than the frame was worth. Because the crack was at the joint and spread to the top tube, it would have been a seat tube, top tube replacement, plus all the welds for the existing head/down tubes.
    Clark Kent made a lot of their frames with straight gauge tubing in the seat tube and didn't add internal collars in the seat/top tube joints. Us taller guys (6'1'') had to run the seat post fairly high in those days putting a lot of stress on the joints.
    I put on my straight face and handed it over to a local guy who recycles metal.
    so sad..
    Poaching Demo...that's why we can't have nice things...

  5. #5
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    You did the right thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrpiffle View Post
    Nice to know. Last month, I gave away to a metal recycler my comped 1994 Clark Kent F 12 because of a twice fixed (by Clark Kent) crack in the seat tube/top tube joint.
    Broke my heart, but it was more to fix than the frame was worth. Because the crack was at the joint and spread to the top tube, it would have been a seat tube, top tube replacement, plus all the welds for the existing head/down tubes.
    Clark Kent made a lot of their frames with straight gauge tubing in the seat tube and didn't add internal collars in the seat/top tube joints. Us taller guys (6'1'') had to run the seat post fairly high in those days putting a lot of stress on the joints.
    I put on my straight face and handed it over to a local guy who recycles metal.
    so sad..
    Some guys just hang the broken frames up in the garage and look at them from time to time and reminisce. That breaking at the seat post deal was the fate of many Klein Rascals. My 1993 has escaped that one for now and will be going back into hibercyclenation in the storage shed to fly again at a later date now that the Lynskey is back in business! Broken Ti Frames ?-0615121501.jpg No second chances for aluminum!
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  6. #6
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    Lynskey gets new lease

    All fixed and ready to go! Broken Ti Frames ?-img_0928.jpgBroken Ti Frames ?-img_0925-1.jpg Thanks Eddie!
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    All fixed and ready to go! Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	953583 Thanks Eddie!
    Usually you grind out the old weld first. Looks like your "lease" is more like month to month!
    "It's just that nobody likes Cornfish." francois

  8. #8
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    As one who rides a titanium 3.25 bike just about every day since 1996, a hard tail, a cross bike commuter, and a single speed, in the Bay Area, this story is interesting.

    Sadly a month ago, my wife had a titanium cross bike commuter stolen while shopping. It was locked. She bought that bike from Voodoo when they were in Sunnyvale on Kifer Rd, back in the day.

    Well despite their flexibility in the wrong places sometimes, I have come to deeply appreciate the ride of titanium, and the simplistic beauty of the material. A titanium bike can be for life.

    Carbon and aluminum lack that cachet IMHO.

    Bravo on that repair! May it last forever.

    Now, I am still interested in getting a disc brake tab welded onto my old frames! I know it I possible. Anyone have any Bay Area leads on that?

  9. #9
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    Oh, BTW AR, how/when did you discover the crack?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcerer View Post
    Oh, BTW AR, how/when did you discover the crack?
    Well first let me say that I feel the same way you do about the Ti frames. My Lynskey was making noise on the climb up Kennedy and I sort of knew it was broken as it was a loud creaking. Probably cracked on the way down the ride before I'm guessing. The welder said it was welded with too thin of a bead so it cracked in the weld. There is some good flex in the Lynskey. My old aluminum Klein Rascal is twice as stiff.
    Suicide by single speed. Work in progress.

  11. #11
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    J.B. Weld to the rescue, LOL!
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  12. #12
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    Ah Titanium ... good for fast bikes and really fast planes ... Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Suicide by single speed. Work in progress.

  13. #13
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    How much did it cost for the repair? I have a hairline crack in an old Serotta Legend Ti. I was going to take it to Jeremy Sycip.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastpath View Post
    How much did it cost for the repair? I have a hairline crack in an old Serotta Legend Ti. I was going to take it to Jeremy Sycip.
    40 bucks and he has done a slew of bike frames!
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornfish View Post
    Usually you grind out the old weld first. Looks like your "lease" is more like month to month!
    That maybe a daily rental type of weld. I hate to be critical but that weld doesn't look like it will last out the first ride. I bet if you sent it back to the manufacturer they would have done it right. I had a Merlin XLM that cracked in the same spot......Merlin aka Litespeed replaced the head tube. It was just like day one of it's life......mind you it cost $400 but well worth it.

  16. #16
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    Its funny when people base the strength of a weld on the look of a weld....

    If it does fail again a saddle may be the ticket.....

    Broken Ti Frames ?-753387d1358253995-frame-builder-kyoto-japan-upload-lucky_strike_headtube_04.jpg

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar View Post
    Its funny when people base the strength of a weld on the look of a weld....

    If it does fail again a saddle may be the ticket.....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dang, that saddle weld looks strong indeed. Eddie said the original weld was too thin of a bead and it did break right through the middle of the original weld. I will bet the next break should one happen will be somewhere other than the repair weld.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar View Post
    Its funny when people base the strength of a weld on the look of a weld....

    If it does fail again a saddle may be the ticket.....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm lead manufacturing engineer for a group of weld engineers...........I can tell you the first weld inspection method is visual. And that weld doesn't pass.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    I'm lead manufacturing engineer for a group of weld engineers...........I can tell you the first weld inspection method is visual. And that weld doesn't pass.
    Well, I don't think he is going to xray it or bust out the ultrasonic gear, or cut it in half....Time will tell.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar View Post
    Well, I don't think he is going to xray it or bust out the ultrasonic gear, or cut it in half....Time will tell.
    That's not my concern. I was answering your statement "Its funny when people base the strength of a weld on the look of a weld...."

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar View Post
    Well, I don't think he is going to xray it or bust out the ultrasonic gear, or cut it in half....Time will tell.
    The first ride went well and the second ride is tomorrow. I will post it up good or bad news. I am easy on bikes and weigh only 150 pounds so I probably won't do much of a big weld strength test.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker4life View Post
    That's not my concern. I was answering your statement "Its funny when people base the strength of a weld on the look of a weld...."
    ok, fair enough. But to me it is still funny as its usually from people who have no idea what they are looking at.

    When I built this glass wall and door I usually heard the opposite, how great the welds look, but to me they were quite ugly, especially on the first pass when needed.

    Broken Ti Frames ?-coffebar_sf.jpg

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastpath View Post
    How much did it cost for the repair? I have a hairline crack in an old Serotta Legend Ti. I was going to take it to Jeremy Sycip.
    Holland is going to charge somewhere in the neighborhood of 300, maybe more. But he does excellent repair welds.

  24. #24
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    Yeah it looks pretty choppy but if it gets the job done and holds, all is well. I wish you good luck AR and that you never have that happen again.
    They never made the "Slowster"

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmarshall View Post
    Yeah it looks pretty choppy but if it gets the job done and holds, all is well. I wish you good luck AR and that you never have that happen again.
    Thanks Paul! It's good that the repair weld is also surrounded by the top tube and lower tube intact welds to back it up. I would not trust it to that short but stocky Willy Wonka LP bruiser to ride though! Are you getting stronger/better man?
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcerer View Post
    As one who rides a titanium 3.25 bike just about every day since 1996, a hard tail, a cross bike commuter, and a single speed, in the Bay Area, this story is interesting.

    Sadly a month ago, my wife had a titanium cross bike commuter stolen while shopping. It was locked. She bought that bike from Voodoo when they were in Sunnyvale on Kifer Rd, back in the day.

    Well despite their flexibility in the wrong places sometimes, I have come to deeply appreciate the ride of titanium, and the simplistic beauty of the material. A titanium bike can be for life.

    Carbon and aluminum lack that cachet IMHO.

    Bravo on that repair! May it last forever.

    Now, I am still interested in getting a disc brake tab welded onto my old frames! I know it I possible. Anyone have any Bay Area leads on that?
    Man sorry to hear about Chris's bike! Any hope for a recovery?

    RE that weld repair; and coming from somebody that's held a few welding certs back in the day (and never felt comfortable about welding Ti if the joint mattered); that repair job worries me by the looks of it.

    Maybe it's just bridging a manufacturing flaw and you'll be OK or maybe your next OTB will be your last.

    Cheers!
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  27. #27
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    try this guy NTP Bikes

  28. #28
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    Broken Ti Frames ?-477225_342155119161072_1487326069_o.jpg
    Broken Ti Frames ?-473839_342155622494355_1600993493_o.jpg

    At least yours seems repairable....

    I'll add to the "that weld looks like crap" bandwagon. I second the suggestion of Dan Nelson at NTP Bikes, he does an excellent job welding Ti.

    Broken Ti Frames ?-470404_483844318325484_1996632790_o.jpg
    This is a disc brake tab and reinforcement tube job I had him add on to my Litespeed Classic. He drilled and tapped tiny 8-32 holes at the termination of the seatstays and chainstays to make sure argon was flowing inside and outside while he welded. The holes are now plugged with stainless set screws. I was very pleased with the result.
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  29. #29
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    Anybody know any good titanium welders in the Phoenix area? Thanks

  30. #30
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    What about FORM Cycles?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkei View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    At least yours seems repairable....

    I'll add to the "that weld looks like crap" bandwagon. I second the suggestion of Dan Nelson at NTP Bikes, he does an excellent job welding Ti.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is a disc brake tab and reinforcement tube job I had him add on to my Litespeed Classic. He drilled and tapped tiny 8-32 holes at the termination of the seatstays and chainstays to make sure argon was flowing inside and outside while he welded. The holes are now plugged with stainless set screws. I was very pleased with the result.
    Dan at NTP did a nice repair on a cracked litespeed chainstay for me a few yrs ago.
    I have had bad luck with titanium frames in the past- my last Lynskey pro29er cracked on both sides of the downtube thru to the headtube. Lynskey repaired it and I later sold the frame. I also had an old performance chinese ti frame that cracked thru the toptube into the seat tube.
    I must admit my early 90s litespeed catalyst road frame is still going strong but is seeing minimal duty these past few years.

    Mark

  32. #32
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    Lynskey weld report !

    After at least 5 rides the weld is holding. Granted I am a lightweight and not aggressive. I have done some bumpy 4 mile fire trail downhills ... mainly Kennedy trail at least 2 of which I did with full air in both tires. Usually I do descents with low air especially in the front tire which makes a huge difference.
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  33. #33
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    Well I'll be go to hell ... the weld held !

    30 + rides and one 20/40 in the books later ... we are still chasing down the "evil ones" Easter Sunday ride with Soares today. Broken Ti Frames ?-img_2721.jpg
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  34. #34
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    Ready for halloween again

    He said it failed from not enough weld where it connected. Broken Ti Frames ?-fullsizerender-179.jpgBroken Ti Frames ?-fullsizerender-180.jpg Like his other weld ... which is still holding together ... today's weld probably won't break there again!
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  35. #35
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    LG Man's Ellsworth is next

    Eddie ... Broken Ti Frames ?-fullsizerender-192.jpg
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  36. #36
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    LG Man's Ellsworth is fixed

    Ellsworth is back in business. Broken Ti Frames ?-fullsizerender-193.jpg
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  37. #37
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    ^I predict it will break again within a year.

    I'll buy you a Pabst if it doesn't.

    You buy me a Pliny if it does.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    Ellsworth is back in business. Click image for larger version. 

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    is that spray paint on the shock?

    And was the frame heat treated?

    I second Pat's suggestion. That frame is a dead man walking - or something.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    is that spray paint on the shock?

    And was the frame heat treated?

    I second Pat's suggestion. That frame is a dead man walking - or something.
    Who's Pat?
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Who's Pat?
    Just some guy.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    is that spray paint on the shock?

    And was the frame heat treated?

    I second Pat's suggestion. That frame is a dead man walking - or something.
    RE Paint on the shock; if LG Man is actually from Los Gatos (so was I) I'll say "that's how we roll".

    The paint on the shock will give the investigators a solid lead on how hard the landing was when the frame broke the 2nd time. (By how far down on the strut the paint's scraped off) Win-win.

    More perplexing is the position of the "sag" o-ring; what does that tell us about the typical shock travel LG man experiences? (Or how his shock is set-up?)
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    RE Paint on the shock; if LG Man is actually from Los Gatos (so was I) I'll say "that's how we roll".

    The paint on the shock will give the investigators a solid lead on how hard the landing was when the frame broke the 2nd time. (By how far down on the strut the paint's scraped off) Win-win.

    More perplexing is the position of the "sag" o-ring; what does that tell us about the typical shock travel LG man experiences? (Or how his shock is set-up?)
    Whomever did this repair is truly top notch and an innovator.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    is that spray paint on the shock?

    And was the frame heat treated?

    I second Pat's suggestion. That frame is a dead man walking - or something.
    Undoubtably better than OEM though.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  44. #44
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    Hah
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    Ellsworth is back in business.
    outside of the sarcasm... that repair will fail. And not masking the shock?

  46. #46
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    It's unfortunate, cause the welder can draw a bead.

    But really should have welded it, sleeved it and heat treated it.
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  47. #47
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    Poor old Eddie! The first weld on the Lynskey is still fine. The Ellsworth is LG Man"s back up bike for the new Mojo and won't see much action. Time will tell on today's weld.
    Suicide by single speed. Work in progress.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient rascal View Post
    Poor old Eddie! The first weld on the Lynskey is still fine. The Ellsworth is LG Man"s back up bike for the new Mojo and won't see much action. Time will tell on today's weld.
    Someone's gonna get ... - - - - ed up if they keep riding these broken bikes! The Lynskey was pretty loud on Kennedy today ... Broken Ti Frames ?-fullsizer-15.jpg Looks like it's curtains for the Lynskey ... Won't get to hear Eddie say ... It won't break there again! LG Man has not yet rode the Ellsworth.
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  49. #49
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    ^^^Thats not looking good...I think it's time to put a bullet in that one; that tire doesn't too good either

  50. #50
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    those whole thread is a cautionary tale about lynskey. their bikes are chintzy
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