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Big news: Feds to consider allowing bikes on PCT

26K views 224 replies 49 participants last post by  TahoeBC 
#1 ·
For the last two to three years a small group of us has been working to get mountain bike access to non-Wilderness sections of the Pacific Crest Trail. (About 60% of the PCT lies outside Wilderness.)

We have convinced the Forest Service that its 1988 closure order requires reconsideration.

As a result, the Forest Service is going to begin a rulemaking procedure, probably in March of 2013, to consider making the non-Wilderness parts of the PCT multiuse. This will involve public notice and comment.

When something similar happened with the Continental Divide Trail about four years ago, the Forest Service received about 8000 comments. The PCT reconsideration can be expected to generate even more controversy.

If the Forest Service decides to keep bikes off the Pacific Crest Trail, we can expect that closure to stay in place for the rest of our lives and maybe those of our children. If the Forest Service decides to open it, it will be revolutionary.

Stay tuned. We'll be looking for your help in coming months.
 
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#68 ·
Some interesting tid-bits on the origin of the PCT and the original plan...

President Lyndon Johnson's original quote from a speech in 1965, that ultimately gave "birth" to the PCT, as part of the National Trails System Act of 1968:

"TRAILS: The forgotten outdoorsmen of today are those who like to walk, hike, ride horseback or bicycle. For them we must have trails as well as highways. Nor should motor vehicles be permitted to tyrannize the more leisurely human traffic.

Old and young alike can participate. Our doctors recommend and encourage such activity for fitness and fun.

I am requesting, therefore, that the Secretary of the Interior work with his colleagues in the federal government and with state and local leaders and recommend to me a cooperative program to encourage a national system of trails, building up the more than hundred thousand miles of trails in our National Forests and Parks.

As with so much of our quest for beauty and quality, each community has opportunities for action. We can and should have an abundance of trails for walking, cycling and horseback riding, in and close to our cities. In the back country we need to copy the great Appalachian Trail in all parts of America, and to make full use of rights of way and other public paths."
-LBJ - 2/8/1965



The original PCT plan: Pacific Crest National Scenic Trail - Comprehensive Plan

While mt. biking as we know it didn't exist when all this work was being done, I have to believe the overall vision of the PCT (and President LBJ) supports enjoying the trail on a human powered bicycle.

Overview: "-Provides for a diversity of appropriate outdoor recreation opportunities limited principally by the carrying capacity of the area and the Congressional restriction on motorized use. - 5/16/80"
-- "diversity"... not "limited". And "motorized"... not "mechanized".

Page 2:"Each National Scenic Trail should stand out, in its own right, as a recreation resource of superlative quality and physical challenge."

Page 2: "The Pacific Crest Trail traditionally has served horseback and foot traveler. This use pattern, accepted by most visitors to the trail, should be continued."
-- this was 1982. Many, many visitors to the trail today do not accept these as the only 2 means of recreation, fitness and fun.

Page 3: "The routes of national scenic trails should be so located as to provide for maximum outdoor recreation potential and for the conservation and enjoyment of the nationally significant scenic, historic, natural, or cultural qualities of the areas through which such trails may pass."
-- "maximum"... not "limited"

Page 12 (regarding Management of the trail, circa late '70's-early '80's): "Complaints were received from users regarding conflicts between equestrian and foot traffic."
-- before hikers had mountain bikers to whine about, they whined about equestrians :p

Page 18 (regarding the more remote/primitive portions of the PCT): "The user will enjoy maximum opportunity for solitude and testing of outdoor skills. Feelings of regulation will be minimized to the greatest extent possible. Feelings of physical achievement will be an important part of the experience offered."
-- sounds like an ideal bike ride to me!
 
#71 ·
Hopefully the outcome in the end will be left to the individual land mangers which are many to decide if sections should be opened up or not. I do not think the PCTA has any authority what so ever to decide if the trail is closed or opened to bikes, although there opinion may weigh heavily with the feds.

Of course Wilderness areas will be off limit, but there are many sections of trail that just opening short section to bike use opens up amazing links for larger rides (These happen to be the most poached sections because of this).

Saying that the trail was not built to sustain bike traffic is ridiculous, if it was built to sustain horse traffic it fine for bikes. A buddy of mine who builds lots of trails was explaining how much longer it takes to build trails to support horse traffic, not only the trail bed, but clearing a large swath both horizontally & vertically allow a horse with panniers to pass.

Getting bikers involvement with the trail will only improve the trail as MUCH more maintenance will occur on sections being overgrown and with tree removal. Not to mention the monetary effect of people joining the PCTA.

Some how 1000 of miles of trails are shared between Hikers / Horses / Bikers, for the most part without indecent, and guess what the trails seem to hold up ok.

Ideally some sections will open up. Possibly with an odd/even day thing, or something seasonal, like Sept 1st till the first snowfall when the though hikers are done.

There's one example of a 1/4 miles section of PCT blocks the connection of 100's of miles of trails, do we really need to create another parallel trial in the forest, just because this 1/4 mile section that runs next to a major freeway cannot be shared? pretty unbelievable.
 
#74 ·
I see that the thread is moving away a bit from the narrower question of comments about the PCT (and what we all can do to facilitate gaining access to it when the public comment process starts), and toward a general debate about people's stubborn views on the left and the right, broadly speaking.

I'd like to say, to reassure any skeptic who thinks we're in for a big surprise when we find out how stubborn and unyielding our opponents are, that we know what we are doing. We have, collectively, many years of mountain bike access advocacy experience. We are aware that people and groups often do filter this issue through ideological lenses that inform their views on a wide range of issues.

So there's a kernel of truth to the stereotypes about people and groups who are firmly embedded with the "left" or the "right," to oversimplify, and who approach this narrow issue of increased mountain bike access to trails from that perspective. There are people who sincerely feel the U.S. is far too restrained in extracting its resources—they would prefer we be more like Australia or Canada—and support increased mtb access because they wish to bring us into their fold or use us to disadvantage their conservation-minded opponents. And there are other people for whom any mode of transport in the wild, even the most environmentally benign human-powered travel, that wasn't available to John Muir is sinful, and who adhere to their purist vision with a kind of religiosity that mirrors the intensity of religious fundamentalism in the Bible Belt. Or, on a more practical level, there are hikers and equestrians who are selfish and who believe the roadless public lands belong only to them; and there are commercial dude ranch interests who want to keep bicycles off trails so they can continue to sell as many luxury packstock and horse "expeditions" as possible, without complaints from nervous clients about bicycles.

Our task, as we work to get the PCT made available to cyclists, is to worm our way through these ideological and financial-interest currents and try to get to the finish line with something to show for it. We welcome everyone's help, as I've said before.
 
#75 ·
Imtnbike, I think we met in my office a few weeks ago...

So hopefully this is an addition to the discussion rather than just prattling on, but most of what I hear about the Bikes on the PCT discussion from "the other side" has nothing to do with bikes on the PCT. There is concern that with the limited management tools in the public land manager's toolbox, opening the door to allow bikes on the PCT (or wilderness for that matter) could only be done by removing the door from it's hinges basically, removing the ability for land managers to make decisions regarding land management. I.E. once the horses head is in the barn, the whole horse is coming in.

I don't know to what extent this is the case, but addressing it up front might be helpful in mitigating these concerns, if they are real and are mitigate-able.
 
#76 ·
Hi, John — Yes, we did, along with a third person who's posting on this thread. Thanks for giving us your time and perspective.

We're sensitive to the need to do what you propose. The concerns you mention should be unfounded, because if the Forest Service allows mountain biking and a problem crops up on any particular stretch of the PCT, the Forest Service can issue another closure order for that area and then, as it's supposed to do, review it again in a year. By which time, of course, I hope we'd have worked out any problem; there'd be a huge incentive for the local mountain bikers to do so. I bet no problem would arise that cannot be resolved.

Frankly, I would be worried if anything in our initiative caused the Forest Service to lose authority to manage the PCT as fully as it does now. We haven't asked for anything of the kind. In fact, I hear that in the past the Forest Service has deferred rather extensively to the Pacific Crest Trail Association and allowed it to govern the PCT de facto. We'd prefer that a public agency assume full authority over the trail rather than delegating de facto authority to any interest group, be it us, the PCTA, or any other entity.
 
#81 ·
The Official stance of the PCTA (as of today):

The PCTA has issued this response:

Pacific Crest Trail Association

Response to inquiries about mountain bikes and the PCT

10/11/12

To our members and supporters:

...
We are receiving many inquiries from you about information being posted online about mountain bikes and the PCT. We want to assure you that we are well aware of this growing campaign to open the PCT to bicycles. We are monitoring the decision-making process and we are working on a strategy to thoughtfully address this issue.

The US Forest Service has been contacted by a group of citizens requesting a review of the bicycle prohibition but has not made a decision regarding a review process. Public notification and an environmental analysis would have to take place before any change in the bicycle prohibition would be considered.

The Pacific Crest Trail Association opposes bicycle use on the trail. We will be reaching out to all of you when we know more about the process and what influence we, as hikers and equestrians, can have. We will keep you informed of our progress and your potential role in this important matter for the PCT.

Thank you for your support of the PCTA and for all you do for the trail.

- Liz Bergeron, PCTA Executive Director and CEO
LBergeron@pcta.org
Phone: 916-285-1846

If you do contact please be civil/nice. Many of these people have it deeply ingrained that MTB'rs are bad, and riding is bad....based on nothing more than anecdotes and 'feelings'.

If it is possible to change their views it would benefit all involved.
 
#82 ·
The Official stance of the PCTA (as of today):

LBergeron@pcta.org
Phone: 916-285-1846

If you do contact please be civil/nice. Many of these people have it deeply ingrained that MTB'rs are bad, and riding is bad....based on nothing more than anecdotes and 'feelings'.

If it is possible to change their views it would benefit all involved.
OK....one more time.. then it's time for me to move on from this !
Not worth the BATTLE.. :madman: OH and my "feelings" got hurt.

Richard

AKA MTB'r,Roadie,Off Roader,Car Driver,Thru Hiker,MX,Golfer,Dog Owner, etc ,etc,
Really ! I just don't have time to do any except take care of the dog poop.

p.s. Also I'm joining the PCTA this w.e. You never know ?

Cheers
 
#84 ·
Quick followup to some recent posts:

1. Sworksrider: I think you mentioned earlier that you lack the skills to ride the PCT, which is one reason you don't want anyone else legally riding it either. If you got off the road bike for a while and practiced more challenging trails (not that most of the PCT would be technically challenging), you might find that you're changing your mind! Just a thought.

2. Someone mentioned a fear that the exclusion-minded might react by trying to get more Wilderness or more of the PCT included in Wilderness. That's conceivably true, but it is difficult to get Congress to create new Wilderness areas—something only Congress can do, and not the NPS, BLM or FS. That's because Wilderness is right up there with affirmative action, same-sex marriage, attacking Iran, abortion, and prayer in schools as a hot-button issue. IIRC, Yellowstone NP has no Wilderness, because it can't get through Congress.
 
#85 ·
Quick followup to some recent posts:

1. Sworksrider: I think you mentioned earlier that you lack the skills to ride the PCT, which is one reason you don't want anyone else legally riding it either. If you got off the road bike for a while and practiced more challenging trails (not that most of the PCT would be technically challenging), you might find that you're changing your mind! Just a thought.

2. Someone mentioned a fear that the exclusion-minded might react by trying to get more Wilderness or more of the PCT included in Wilderness. That's conceivably true, but it is difficult to get Congress to create new Wilderness areas-something only Congress can do, and not the NPS, BLM or FS. That's because Wilderness is right up there with affirmative action, same-sex marriage, attacking Iran, abortion, and prayer in schools as a hot-button issue. IIRC, Yellowstone NP has no Wilderness, because it can't get through Congress.
imtnbike
I. I think your missing my bigger picture.. maybe try hiking the entire PCT in Calif and you might change your mind. Just a thought, also there are way to many people that don't what us riding any part of it. Lack of skills :confused: it has nothing to do with my skills on a MTB. I feel very confident I can hold my myself upright on any trail after 25 years of riding.... just slowing down a bit.

Once again it's to big a battle to waste all my energy. I'm OK with hiking it.

Cheers

RP
 
#87 ·
I still think the bigger picture is the actual trail itself and the lack of management to maintain it. Sections are being lost due to lack of use and lack of interest by the current user groups to maintain the trail. Some may argue that this is not true, well come to rural sections of the trail that only see the thru hikers.

The mtb community has a devout following that truly cares about trails, advocay and stewardship. As mentioned before, it is a plausible scenario to open sections of the trail, perhaps only in the remote areas. At least these sections of trail will be maintained and tread not lost.
 
#90 ·
Things are currently moving nicely :thumbsup:

There is a very vocal extremist type minority that continuously posts insane-O rhetoric...like bounty hunters, physically colliding with cyclists until death and sabotage...:eek:

You can review updates on the Sharing the PCT FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

or go straight to the source:
The Pct-L October 2012 Archive by date

Again this is a very unique opportunity that will not happen again - It really is the Perfect Cycling trail.
 
#92 ·
Good work everyone. I will do whatever I can to help.

It seems that the extreme reactions could be easily dismissed by logical people, at least I hope so.

I just read on the PCT-L archive about a "separate but equal" trail for bikes. That sounds great, and we should also have separate drinking fountains, bathrooms, and we should sit at the back of the bus too. Hopefully these people treat other human beings better than some of their comments about mountain bikers may indicate.
 
#94 ·
Good work everyone. I will do whatever I can to help.

It seems that the extreme reactions could be easily dismissed by logical people, at least I hope so.

I just read on the PCT-L archive about a "separate but equal" trail for bikes. That sounds great, and we should also have separate drinking fountains, bathrooms, and we should sit at the back of the bus too. Hopefully these people treat other human beings better than some of their comments about mountain bikers may indicate.
The PCT-L is a joke...an entertaining one at that...The 'Sharing the PCT' facebook page has a lot of back and forth with PCT-L extremists...which can make for a good read ;)

The powers that be do not take into considerations groups like the PCT-L, or Facebook, or MTBR for that matter..

Now the guy who runs PCT-L (Brick Robbins) removes pretty much any and all differing opinions so that the 15 or so fundamentalist types can participate in type of self fulfilling hate circle jerk...

There's been discussion of hiring bounty hunters, not yielding until death, sabotage, intentionally injuring cyclists, etc..etc..etc...

The only real problem I have with the guy is that he's the PCTA's webmaster (AFAIK)...and the PCTA has been a very strong and positive driving force behind the PCT. They are well deserving of respect...

It would be sad if Brick played some muckity-muck with content/communications thru that site to twist his own views in. He has the PCT-L as the only forum link discussion area on the PCTA.

I have little faith in his integrity and ethics....
 
#96 ·
Latest from PCT public relation

Latest News

PCTA issues statement regarding mountain bikes

10/11/12

To our members and supporters:

We are receiving many inquiries from you about information being posted online about mountain bikes and the PCT. We want to assure you that we are well aware of this growing campaign to open the PCT to bicycles. We are monitoring the decision-making process and we are working on a strategy to thoughtfully address this issue.

The U.S. Forest Service has been contacted by a group of citizens requesting a review of the bicycle prohibition but has not made a decision regarding a review process. Public notification and an environmental analysis would have to take place before any change in the bicycle prohibition would be considered.

The Pacific Crest Trail Association opposes bicycle use on the trail. We will be reaching out to all of you when we know more about the process and what influence we, as hikers and equestrians, can have. We will keep you informed of our progress and your potential role in this important matter for the PCT.

Thank you for your support of the PCTA and for all you do for the trail.
 
#97 ·
Latest News

PCTA issues statement regarding mountain bikes

10/11/12

To our members and supporters:

We are receiving many inquiries from you about information being posted online about mountain bikes and the PCT. We want to assure you that we are well aware of this growing campaign to open the PCT to bicycles. We are monitoring the decision-making process and we are working on a strategy to thoughtfully address this issue.

The U.S. Forest Service has been contacted by a group of citizens requesting a review of the bicycle prohibition but has not made a decision regarding a review process. Public notification and an environmental analysis would have to take place before any change in the bicycle prohibition would be considered.

The Pacific Crest Trail Association opposes bicycle use on the trail. We will be reaching out to all of you when we know more about the process and what influence we, as hikers and equestrians, can have. We will keep you informed of our progress and your potential role in this important matter for the PCT.

Thank you for your support of the PCTA and for all you do for the trail.
Yup - we are well aware of the PCTA's official stance.

for more info you should check out:
Sharing the Pacific Crest Trail

and a lively discussion:
http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

and for some serious WTF!?!?!:
The Pct-L October 2012 Archive by subject

it is all very, very interesting :thumbsup:
 
#113 ·
Why because I think some places aren't well suited to bikes?

If you're having trouble convincing mountain bikers on a mountain bike site that mountain bikes should be allowed in wilderness, you might want to fine tune your arguments before going to the Forest Service and other non mountain bikers.
 
#125 · (Edited)
"Conflict" is, rather, a device utilized to exclude us. "Environmental impact" is utilized as a device as well. The idea of conflict and threat resonate with a remarkable number of people regardless of the facts.

In working with the State and IMBA the idea of real threat and perceived thread is clearly delineated in discussions which detoxifies things quite a bit. Further, efforts by EBRPD and the State to change current tactical impact of EIRs and the consideration of impact in a different fashion is key for opening up our access. The hikers and equestrians are not happy about these efforts as they make it "too easy" for mtb to get access.
 
#126 ·
"Conflict" is, rather, a device utilized to exclude us. "Environmental impact" is utilized as a device as well. The idea of conflict and threat resonate with a remarkable number of people regardless of he facts.

In working with the State and IMBA the idea of real threat and perceived thread is clearly delineated in discussions which detoxifies things quite a bit. Further, efforts by EBRPD and the State to change current tactical impact of EIRs and the consideration of impact in a different fashion is key for opening up our access. The hikers and equestrians are not happy about these efforts as they make it "too easy" for mtb to get access.
The Sierra wilderness is all federal anyway.
 
#127 ·
Let me rework this a bit:

Recently in a National Election a group of people with a desperate hold on "traditional values" had their contrived belief system smacked between the eyes.

Currently a couple of respected land managers have seen the light and worked with consideration to eliminate processes contrived to simply get in the way. I think it shows a trend.
 
#131 ·
Looking at the posts, it seems some folks are a bit confused about this issue of opening the PCT to bikes. If it happens at all, it will be in the NON-Wilderness sections, in Nor Cal that's mostly areas north of Lake Tahoe. Mt. Whitney, for instance, is well within Wilderness, and actually several miles from the PCT. The PCT is within Wilderness from well south of Whitney all the way to Carson Pass with just a few small exceptions. Carson Pass to Echo Summit is non-Wilderness, then it goes back in just to the north. North of Squaw Valley the PCT stays out of Wilderness, with one exception, all the way to Lassen National Park. The sections north of hwy 80 get much less use than the more southerly sections, making them, in my opinion, good candidates for bike use.
 
#135 ·
quick update:

NEW POSSIBILITIES FOR THE PACIFIC CREST TRAIL

From an IMBA blog

If you live in the Pacific Northwest and love mountain biking, you have probably thought about how great it would be to ride your bike on the Pacific Crest Trail (PCT), which runs from California to British Columbia and is currently closed to bikes. Each time I hike a portion of the 2,600-mile National Scenic Trail, I find myself wishing that I could also access the stunning scenery, backcountry setting and phenomenal singetrack on my mountain bike. I also think about what a great resource mountain bikers could be in the efforts to maintain the PCT and other long-distance, remote trails.

The U.S. Forest Service recently indicated that it might consider a process to review the current ban on bicycle access to the PCT. Some bicycle advocates have actively challenged the legal basis for the current bike ban, but IMBA has not joined these efforts. We are instead focusing on communicating with both the Forest Service and other key stakeholders in the recreation community to assess current trail-use issues and identify potential opportunities.

IMBA believes that mountain bike access to long-distance backcountry trails is extremely valuable, though that does not necessitate opening the entire PCT to bikes (we will not pursue bike access in designated Wilderness areas, and some sections might not be conducive to riding). As the discussions evolve, IMBA will provide updates about which trail segments of the PCT are best-suited for bicycle access, and we will advocate for access to those sections.
Click on the above link for more info.
 
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