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  1. #76
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    Hi, John — Yes, we did, along with a third person who's posting on this thread. Thanks for giving us your time and perspective.

    We're sensitive to the need to do what you propose. The concerns you mention should be unfounded, because if the Forest Service allows mountain biking and a problem crops up on any particular stretch of the PCT, the Forest Service can issue another closure order for that area and then, as it's supposed to do, review it again in a year. By which time, of course, I hope we'd have worked out any problem; there'd be a huge incentive for the local mountain bikers to do so. I bet no problem would arise that cannot be resolved.

    Frankly, I would be worried if anything in our initiative caused the Forest Service to lose authority to manage the PCT as fully as it does now. We haven't asked for anything of the kind. In fact, I hear that in the past the Forest Service has deferred rather extensively to the Pacific Crest Trail Association and allowed it to govern the PCT de facto. We'd prefer that a public agency assume full authority over the trail rather than delegating de facto authority to any interest group, be it us, the PCTA, or any other entity.

  2. #77
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    x-posted to the FB page.

  3. #78
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    A true believer wishing to teach others how to save the planet has one choice:...kill yourself.
    Consciousness, that annoying time between bike rides.

  4. #79
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    The PCTl forum is getting interesting, as expected it's hit a raw nerve

    The Pct-L October 2012 Archive by thread
    Go get that KOM "You Deserve" - http://www.digitalepo.com/index.php

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    The PCTl forum is getting interesting, as expected it's hit a raw nerve

    The Pct-L October 2012 Archive by thread
    Even better (and easier to read): https://www.facebook.com/SavethePCT

  6. #81
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    The Official stance of the PCTA (as of today):

    The PCTA has issued this response:

    Pacific Crest Trail Association

    Response to inquiries about mountain bikes and the PCT

    10/11/12

    To our members and supporters:

    ...
    We are receiving many inquiries from you about information being posted online about mountain bikes and the PCT. We want to assure you that we are well aware of this growing campaign to open the PCT to bicycles. We are monitoring the decision-making process and we are working on a strategy to thoughtfully address this issue.

    The US Forest Service has been contacted by a group of citizens requesting a review of the bicycle prohibition but has not made a decision regarding a review process. Public notification and an environmental analysis would have to take place before any change in the bicycle prohibition would be considered.

    The Pacific Crest Trail Association opposes bicycle use on the trail. We will be reaching out to all of you when we know more about the process and what influence we, as hikers and equestrians, can have. We will keep you informed of our progress and your potential role in this important matter for the PCT.

    Thank you for your support of the PCTA and for all you do for the trail.

    - Liz Bergeron, PCTA Executive Director and CEO
    LBergeron@pcta.org
    Phone: 916-285-1846

    If you do contact please be civil/nice. Many of these people have it deeply ingrained that MTB'rs are bad, and riding is bad....based on nothing more than anecdotes and 'feelings'.

    If it is possible to change their views it would benefit all involved.
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    The Official stance of the PCTA (as of today):


    LBergeron@pcta.org
    Phone: 916-285-1846

    If you do contact please be civil/nice. Many of these people have it deeply ingrained that MTB'rs are bad, and riding is bad....based on nothing more than anecdotes and 'feelings'.

    If it is possible to change their views it would benefit all involved.

    OK....one more time.. then it's time for me to move on from this !
    Not worth the BATTLE.. OH and my "feelings" got hurt.

    Richard

    AKA MTB'r,Roadie,Off Roader,Car Driver,Thru Hiker,MX,Golfer,Dog Owner, etc ,etc,
    Really ! I just don't have time to do any except take care of the dog poop.


    p.s. Also I'm joining the PCTA this w.e. You never know ?


    Cheers

  8. #83
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    Regarding both bikepacking and day rides: one thing that would be very helpful would be for people to post the opportunities in their area that would open up if access were legalized. What good rides would become available that weren't before? What out-and-back rides could become loops? And, if you feel like being candid, what problems could arise from mountain bike use on those trail miles, and how could any such problems be solved?

  9. #84
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    Quick followup to some recent posts:

    1. Sworksrider: I think you mentioned earlier that you lack the skills to ride the PCT, which is one reason you don't want anyone else legally riding it either. If you got off the road bike for a while and practiced more challenging trails (not that most of the PCT would be technically challenging), you might find that you're changing your mind! Just a thought.

    2. Someone mentioned a fear that the exclusion-minded might react by trying to get more Wilderness or more of the PCT included in Wilderness. That's conceivably true, but it is difficult to get Congress to create new Wilderness areas—something only Congress can do, and not the NPS, BLM or FS. That's because Wilderness is right up there with affirmative action, same-sex marriage, attacking Iran, abortion, and prayer in schools as a hot-button issue. IIRC, Yellowstone NP has no Wilderness, because it can't get through Congress.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by imtnbke View Post
    Quick followup to some recent posts:

    1. Sworksrider: I think you mentioned earlier that you lack the skills to ride the PCT, which is one reason you don't want anyone else legally riding it either. If you got off the road bike for a while and practiced more challenging trails (not that most of the PCT would be technically challenging), you might find that you're changing your mind! Just a thought.

    2. Someone mentioned a fear that the exclusion-minded might react by trying to get more Wilderness or more of the PCT included in Wilderness. That's conceivably true, but it is difficult to get Congress to create new Wilderness areas—something only Congress can do, and not the NPS, BLM or FS. That's because Wilderness is right up there with affirmative action, same-sex marriage, attacking Iran, abortion, and prayer in schools as a hot-button issue. IIRC, Yellowstone NP has no Wilderness, because it can't get through Congress.
    imtnbike
    I. I think your missing my bigger picture.. maybe try hiking the entire PCT in Calif and you might change your mind. Just a thought, also there are way to many people that don't what us riding any part of it. Lack of skills it has nothing to do with my skills on a MTB. I feel very confident I can hold my myself upright on any trail after 25 years of riding.... just slowing down a bit.

    Once again it's to big a battle to waste all my energy. I'm OK with hiking it.


    Cheers

    RP

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sworksrider View Post
    imtnbike
    I. I think your missing my bigger picture.. maybe try hiking the entire PCT in Calif and you might change your mind.


    Cheers

    RP
    I have backpacked about 125 miles of it. It was great, but a different experience from riding a bike through a beautiful forest. Both types of human-powered travel can be fabulous

  12. #87
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    I still think the bigger picture is the actual trail itself and the lack of management to maintain it. Sections are being lost due to lack of use and lack of interest by the current user groups to maintain the trail. Some may argue that this is not true, well come to rural sections of the trail that only see the thru hikers.

    The mtb community has a devout following that truly cares about trails, advocay and stewardship. As mentioned before, it is a plausible scenario to open sections of the trail, perhaps only in the remote areas. At least these sections of trail will be maintained and tread not lost.

  13. #88
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    Great discussion happening on the Facebook page - Sharing the PCT
    Always respect rangers, they are doing their job-Everyone else has no authority, so get out of the way of the of the ATrain!

  14. #89
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  15. #90
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    Things are currently moving nicely

    There is a very vocal extremist type minority that continuously posts insane-O rhetoric...like bounty hunters, physically colliding with cyclists until death and sabotage...

    You can review updates on the Sharing the PCT FB page:
    https://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

    or go straight to the source:
    The Pct-L October 2012 Archive by date


    Again this is a very unique opportunity that will not happen again - It really is the Perfect Cycling trail.
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  16. #91
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    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  17. #92
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    Good work everyone. I will do whatever I can to help.

    It seems that the extreme reactions could be easily dismissed by logical people, at least I hope so.

    I just read on the PCT-L archive about a "separate but equal" trail for bikes. That sounds great, and we should also have separate drinking fountains, bathrooms, and we should sit at the back of the bus too. Hopefully these people treat other human beings better than some of their comments about mountain bikers may indicate.

  18. #93
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    Just hiked PCT from Echo Lake to Aloha Lake and couldn't help but think that it would've been such a beautiful ride.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornfish View Post
    Good work everyone. I will do whatever I can to help.

    It seems that the extreme reactions could be easily dismissed by logical people, at least I hope so.

    I just read on the PCT-L archive about a "separate but equal" trail for bikes. That sounds great, and we should also have separate drinking fountains, bathrooms, and we should sit at the back of the bus too. Hopefully these people treat other human beings better than some of their comments about mountain bikers may indicate.
    The PCT-L is a joke...an entertaining one at that...The 'Sharing the PCT' facebook page has a lot of back and forth with PCT-L extremists...which can make for a good read

    The powers that be do not take into considerations groups like the PCT-L, or Facebook, or MTBR for that matter..

    Now the guy who runs PCT-L (Brick Robbins) removes pretty much any and all differing opinions so that the 15 or so fundamentalist types can participate in type of self fulfilling hate circle jerk...

    There's been discussion of hiring bounty hunters, not yielding until death, sabotage, intentionally injuring cyclists, etc..etc..etc...

    The only real problem I have with the guy is that he's the PCTA's webmaster (AFAIK)...and the PCTA has been a very strong and positive driving force behind the PCT. They are well deserving of respect...

    It would be sad if Brick played some muckity-muck with content/communications thru that site to twist his own views in. He has the PCT-L as the only forum link discussion area on the PCTA.

    I have little faith in his integrity and ethics....
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    The powers that be do not take into considerations groups like the PCT-L, or Facebook, or MTBR for that matter..
    Hopefully this(^^^) is true. In past dealings with the USFS and the BLM (not California) I have found the people in charge to be more or less reasonable. The issue that I have encountered in the past was confusion over how many users backed a particular idea in regards to trail management. Sort of like "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" the people in the USFS, etc. get bombarded by the opinions of a very small minority until they believe the minority speaks for the majority.

    If the idea is to get more people to use and experience the PCT, many of which have never set foot there, the last people you want to listen to are the handful of hardcore PCT hikers. Clearly that group is already familiar with the trail, using it frequently and closed minded to anything other than the status quo.

  21. #96
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    Latest from PCT public relation

    Latest News

    PCTA issues statement regarding mountain bikes

    10/11/12

    To our members and supporters:

    We are receiving many inquiries from you about information being posted online about mountain bikes and the PCT. We want to assure you that we are well aware of this growing campaign to open the PCT to bicycles. We are monitoring the decision-making process and we are working on a strategy to thoughtfully address this issue.

    The U.S. Forest Service has been contacted by a group of citizens requesting a review of the bicycle prohibition but has not made a decision regarding a review process. Public notification and an environmental analysis would have to take place before any change in the bicycle prohibition would be considered.

    The Pacific Crest Trail Association opposes bicycle use on the trail. We will be reaching out to all of you when we know more about the process and what influence we, as hikers and equestrians, can have. We will keep you informed of our progress and your potential role in this important matter for the PCT.

    Thank you for your support of the PCTA and for all you do for the trail.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuba man View Post
    Latest News

    PCTA issues statement regarding mountain bikes

    10/11/12

    To our members and supporters:

    We are receiving many inquiries from you about information being posted online about mountain bikes and the PCT. We want to assure you that we are well aware of this growing campaign to open the PCT to bicycles. We are monitoring the decision-making process and we are working on a strategy to thoughtfully address this issue.

    The U.S. Forest Service has been contacted by a group of citizens requesting a review of the bicycle prohibition but has not made a decision regarding a review process. Public notification and an environmental analysis would have to take place before any change in the bicycle prohibition would be considered.

    The Pacific Crest Trail Association opposes bicycle use on the trail. We will be reaching out to all of you when we know more about the process and what influence we, as hikers and equestrians, can have. We will keep you informed of our progress and your potential role in this important matter for the PCT.

    Thank you for your support of the PCTA and for all you do for the trail.
    Yup - we are well aware of the PCTA's official stance.

    for more info you should check out:
    Sharing the Pacific Crest Trail

    and a lively discussion:
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

    and for some serious WTF!?!?!:
    The Pct-L October 2012 Archive by subject


    it is all very, very interesting
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  23. #98
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    Nice article just published:
    Advocates hope for reversal of Pacific Crest Trail bike ban

    Bike advocates say the 1988 ban was done too abruptly, without public comment or opportunity to appeal. The Oregon-based group, Disciples of Dirt, who fully supports the mission of Sharing the PCT, wrote on their website that the ban was "just fear and misunderstanding, mixed with a lot of well funded ignorance."

    In 2010, a group of citizen activists decided to probe further into the 1988 decision. They wrote a letter to the USFS on November 12, 2010 asking them to "put in place a process to examine the continuing usefulness of the 1988 closure order."

    click here to read more

    Sharing the Pacific Crest TrailHome » Sharing the Pacific Crest Trail
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jfloren View Post
    I am a member of the PCTA and enjoy hiking along many of the high Sierra stretches. Note that most of those would areas not be affected by this potential change because they are in Wilderness Areas that are off-limits to anything mechanical. And I think that is as it should be.
    Bollocks. I assume you hike naked on the trail? Do you take your gas stove with you? Backpack? GPS? Tent?

    Ban on bike travel in Wilderness is utterly idiotic. There is NO justification, but the exclusionary ideas of misguided people like you.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Bollocks. I assume you hike naked on the trail? Do you take your gas stove with you? Backpack? GPS? Tent?

    Ban on bike travel in Wilderness is utterly idiotic. There is NO justification, but the exclusionary ideas of misguided people like you.
    Maybe if mountain bikers as a group acted more like backpackers with bikes and no backpacks it would work - the problem is too often they act like motocrossers without engines. This is utterly incompatible with the idea of wilderness.

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