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  1. #1
    My gloves stink
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    I dreamed I ate a 10 lb marshmallow. When I awoke, my pillow was gone.

  2. #2
    formerly uncle mama
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    I guess it's time for people to stay off these awesome trails before we lose access to the rest of the park.

  3. #3
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    Is it me or does nobody who doesnt ride a bike like trails????

  4. #4
    Old,slow,still havin fun.
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    Our state parks have some administrative problems to be sure, but:

    ...An average of 410 people visit the park each day, but of those only about 20 people pay the entrance fee, according to an estimate based on 2010-2011 figures.
    shows that it isn't ALL the fault of the Parks system. Dang.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle mama View Post
    I guess it's time for people to stay off these awesome trails before we lose access to the rest of the park.
    I couldn't agree more.

    Don't be a dick and ruin it for the rest of us.

  6. #6
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    Annadel illegal trails in the news.

    Yep, and lets start paying to park, if we all did that we would have so much more say in these matters
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    Yep, and lets start paying to park, if we all did that we would have so much more say in these matters
    Some would argue that we already do pay for the park via our highest in the nation sales tax and highest in the nation by far income tax....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cohenfive View Post
    Some would argue that we already do pay for the park via our highest in the nation sales tax and highest in the nation by far income tax....
    Doc, you know how much I value your support but that bird just won't fly anymore. I know we have to say it but....

    Is Annadel is a NorCal E Ticket or what?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Annadel illegal trails in the news.-tlannadel2164b.jpg  

    I don't rattle.

  9. #9
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    Charge an admission fee like the rest of Dinnyland AND for gods sake keep raising those taxes too. Support whatever looks like one world and then trade Cali to china for the trillions in debt. Done deal. Hope that bird flies. . .

  10. #10
    formerly uncle mama
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalitup View Post
    Charge an admission fee like the rest of Dinnyland AND for gods sake keep raising those taxes too. Support whatever looks like one world and then trade Cali to china for the trillions in debt. Done deal. Hope that bird flies. . .
    Can't help but notice that you don't really contribute...you only bag on everything and everyone. -rep for you buddy.

  11. #11
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    What does this mean?

    "Is Annadel is a NorCal E Ticket or what? "

  12. #12
    formerly uncle mama
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chet Bango View Post
    I couldn't agree more.

    Don't be a dick and ruin it for the rest of us.
    Chet,

    I was riding those trails before Annadel had singletrack. It was all fire road back in the day. Just for the record, I haven't ridden that stuff in years. Remember what the arcticle stated...equestrians, hikers and bikers are using those trails. They are truly multi use trails.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle mama View Post
    Chet,

    I was riding those trails before Annadel had singletrack. It was all fire road back in the day. Just for the record, I haven't ridden that stuff in years. Remember what the arcticle stated...equestrians, hikers and bikers are using those trails. They are truly multi use trails.
    Fair enough, but I think we would reach our goals of more legal trail options if we started working within the law and rules rather than acting like we are entitled to whatever we think we are owed and ignoring the impact it has on others. And I hope you didn't think I was pointing to you directly with my comment, I understand your point and was speaking in the general sense.

  14. #14
    Old,slow,still havin fun.
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    On a positive note, the article did seem to go out of it's way to point out that "illegal trails" are used by all groups (hikers, equestrians and bikes).

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chet Bango View Post
    Fair enough, but I think we would reach our goals of more legal trail options if we started working within the law and rules rather than acting like we are entitled to whatever we think we are owed and ignoring the impact it has on others. And I hope you didn't think I was pointing to you directly with my comment, I understand your point and was speaking in the general sense.
    Actually it takes both sides of the coin to gain access.

    If it was solely people requesting access nothing would happen.

    If it was solely people riding volunteer trails nothing would happen.

    Now it is published there is substantial and long term demand for use it will take both legal and continued riding to gain legal access through the adoption of some volunteer trails along with the closure of others...

    The enforcement threats/ideas are a joke...

    of course, this is just my opinion
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  16. #16
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    you may want to check out the comments in the Pee Dee article. One of which is Ken Wells of the Sonoma County Trails Council. It sounds like much of what he had to say to the reporter was left on the cutting room floor. BTW, anyone who lives in Sonoma County and rides Annadel should be a member.

    Ken Wells response the the press demo article:
    In this article about unofficial trails in Annadel, there is a comment about new park signs in a Trails Council partnership with Bike Monkey. I think this is a misunderstanding by the reporter about my description of our new 'trail greeter' project that the Trails Council is working on with California State Parks.

    What I told the PD reporter, is that when the Trails Council does future trail work volunteer days in Annadel, we'll include someone at our work location (a trail greeter) to explain to park visitors that pass us what we're doing and how they can also help protect the park by staying on official, named trails. This uses community-based social marketing techniques to influence park visitor behavior (and generate new volunteers). We will be distributing a flyer that has it all in writing and they can take with them.

    The reporter didn't write anything about my suggested solution that State Parks do a Park 'Road and Trail Plan' that looks at all the trails in the park to establish a new trail system that protects resources and makes use of the best trails, regardless of current status. And the Trails Council has the skills and resources to help State Parks accomplish that work.

    And if readers would like to volunteer, send your email address to trailscouncil@sonic.net and we'll add you to our trail work volunteer list.

  17. #17
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    Quick question: is there a use fee at Annadel, or just a parking fee?

    And is there a meaningful distinction? Does providing the parking or people operating a vehicle somehow cost the park more, or was the parking fee just a simple way to get most visitors to throw in some money, because they are accustomed (especially in the bay area) to paying to park in everyday life?

    I ride in from home, but should I be putting cash in the box?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cohenfive View Post
    What does this mean?

    "Is Annadel is a NorCal E Ticket or what? "
    That's old Disneyland talk for the best ride: it took an E ticket.
    I don't rattle.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post

    Actually it takes both sides of the coin to gain access.

    If it was solely people requesting access nothing would happen.

    If it was solely people riding volunteer trails nothing would happen.
    No matter what gains we have made numerically or politically we are only another part of the equation, and not nearly enough to wag the dog. Quick and seemingly simple windfalls for us are really a perfect storm.
    I don't rattle.

  20. #20
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Quote Originally Posted by cohenfive View Post
    What does this mean?

    "Is Annadel is a NorCal E Ticket or what? "
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    That's old Disneyland talk for the best ride: it took an E ticket.
    Me thinks he meant you grammar Mike.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    Actually it takes both sides of the coin to gain access.
    No Martin without Malcolm. Word.
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  22. #22
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    [QUOTE=Snfoilhat;10320096]Quick question: is there a use fee at Annadel, or just a parking fee?

    And is there a meaningful distinction? Does providing the parking or people operating a vehicle somehow cost the park more, or was the parking fee just a simple way to get most visitors to throw in some money, because they are accustomed (especially in the bay area) to paying to park in everyday life?

    I ride in from home, but should I be putting cash in the box?[/QUOTE

    There was talk of putting "iron rangers" at all the entry points when the state was threating closing the park. Now that it is being run by Sonoma County parks a county park pass is now good for parking, don't think you need one for riding in. I buy a county pass every years as if I drive I would prefer to park at spring lake. I have had my car broke into on Channel. It's about $70/year and the money doesn't get uploaded to Sacramento. The full state park pass is now $195 (up from $125) I find this counter productive, I suspect their sales are down.
    IMHO, having the park run by a local agency is probably better in the long run. I feel better about supporting SoCo parks.

  23. #23
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    One point the article brought up was the difficulty in rescuing an injured person who is on an illegal trail. When I broke my leg, I was grateful that I could give simple directions for rescuers to find me because I was on a legal trail. I've only been on legal trails since then.

    As for paying for the park, the only iron ranger is down on Channel drive. If you're parking over by Lawndale or Park Trail, it's a long ride/drive just to put some money in the post. I expect most people who park on Channel drive by Cobblestone don't even know there's an option to pay. Technically that lot is owned by the water agency, not the state parks. But Regional parks and the water agency are somehow connected, so perhaps a parking fee will be enforced for that lot as well.
    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  24. #24
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    There is no simple solution for the social trails. However there should definitely be an iron ranger on Channel Drive. I would happily pay when I go every other month as would everyone I know.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    Doc, you know how much I value your support but that bird just won't fly anymore. I know we have to say it but....

    Is Annadel is a NorCal E Ticket or what?
    Just by saying it's an E ticket, implies that it's an amusement park ride with goodies and stunts for entertainment, much like Disneyland and it's E ticket rides with high thrills on the matterhorn, not a multi use trail to get from point A to point B efficiently.

    Do you think the land managers see a problem with this, because, from my perspective, yes, as a Land Manager, I do see a problem. A potential liability problem.

  26. #26
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    E Ticket is a Disney reference.

    E tickets were for the good riders, like the Matterhorn. A,B,C tickets were for the tame and lame rides. It's a Small World, Story land, etc.

    Back in the day... When you went to Disneyland, you were given a coupon book. The book had a few "E Tickets", along with many A, B, C, D tickets. It wasn't unusual to run out of the good E tickets and have the lame A,B,C tickets. Not unusual to see A,B, or C tickets tossed on the ground. Eventually Disney went to a single admission, unlimited ride policy.

    E ticket - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cohenfive View Post
    Some would argue that we already do pay for the park via our highest in the nation sales tax and highest in the nation by far income tax....
    It sure felt that way on Monday. Grrr...

  28. #28
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    We now have spiders on patrol in Marin.

    Arach-no-bike-phobia -- The fear spiders will pounce on you while riding a trail.

    Annadel illegal trails in the news.-no-bikes.jpg

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeph View Post
    IMHO, having the park run by a local agency is probably better in the long run.
    With MidPen, San Mateo Parks and East Bay parks being my local agencies I am not sure about that.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgiraffe View Post
    Our state parks have some administrative problems to be sure, but:



    shows that it isn't ALL the fault of the Parks system. Dang.
    I don't know. The State Park system sitting on some $54m in funds while claiming they were broke is a pretty big issue.
    :wq

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nachomc View Post
    I don't know. The State Park system sitting on some $54m in funds while claiming they were broke is a pretty big issue.
    That money was hidden from everyone.

    Over $31 million was part of the OHV Off Highway Vehicle fund. Might have been around $34 million. I was told the $31 was actually spent on land purchases for OHV use. Sloppy accounting.
    OHV Fund didn't hide money after all | News | New Times San Luis Obispo, CA

    However, even more money has been "borrowed" from the OHV fund. We'll never see that money again.

    About $20 million was quickly divided up. I think Friends of China Camp said they got $650,000.

  32. #32
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    I'd pay to ride there as well best biking in the bay area by far.

    I would only want the money to stay local and MTB should have input into how trails are maintained, being the biggest user group.

    The new reroute on South burma I don't think was that successful. It used to be a rocky trail that was wet but due to rocks could handle water and not have erosion issues. Now it's a super speed highway that is not that much fun on the upper part, as well as a muddy boggy pit at the bottom causing alot of erosion.

  33. #33
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    Some of the "illegal" trails in Annadel have probably been there long before mtb was popular there. Many of the trails in question are non erosive, high quality trails that take wet weather FAR better than the official trails. I have seen hikers and questions on most of them.

    There are a couple of trails that are more recent and very poorly built and unsustainable. These should be obliterated. My suggestion is to have the trails evaluated, and make the better existing trails legal for all. What little maintenance they require (far less than the mapped trails) could be easily handled by volunteers. Allow the existing trails to become legal with the stipulation that no new trails -or alt routes be created. The bike community helps to maintain the trails, but will discourage -and report any new trail construction.

    We need to show our appreciation for a park that is open to miles of bike legal singletrack. But anyone who has experience with trail building / maintenance would agree upon inspection that there are many "social" trails in Annadel that have existed for many years without causing erosion or any other problems except that they do not appear on maps. Long time local residents would probably remember that those trails were built by a wide range of user groups long ago.

    China camp has a network of legal -but poorly constructed legacy trails that are erosion nightmares. Some have been decommissioned. But when "official" trails are of inferior quality to other LEGACY trails, it is worth an objective evaluation of what should be maintained and what should be off limits. I am NOT talking about recently constructed illegal trails. I'm referring to legacy trails that have seen years of public use from multiple user groups, and which are sustainable.
    I like to bike.

  34. #34
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    I renewed my annual pass to park at Spring Lake. It cost $69 and allowes me to park at BOTH Spring Lake AND.Annadel. That is less than $6 a month to park there? Kind of hard to say no to.

    I purchased my pass at the main entrance to Spring Lake. I was suprised to hear about the change this year.
    Last edited by Irideon; 04-30-2013 at 09:19 PM.

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    With fracking going on there more worried about people making bike trails.. this is a weird world...

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