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  1. #1
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    The 650b chatter continues

    Pretty good piece out of Bike Mag. I liked how he said they rode the 26 and 650 with exact same set up and felt no difference - pretty honest input for a company looking to sell these pricey bikes (yes, I want one but pretty happy with my 3 26s...have yet to throw my leg around a 29 or 650b). What says you out there in cube land:

    Peanut butter Tuesday, if you know what I mean!

  2. #2
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    I'll continue to fly the 26er flag high, though I'd like to ride a proper mid travel 650b bike...
    -eric-

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    Wanted: 400mm American Classic seatpost, 26.8 & 27.2

  3. #3
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    The 650b chatter continues

    I suck equally on all wheel sizes.

  4. #4
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    I have a rigid 29er and I love the way those big wheels roll. Much more stable and smooth. I hated the compromise size of 650b, but I really feel that 26" wheels are too small. So replacing 26" with 27.5" makes sense, but I'm not sure the hassle is worth it. If the big 3 jump in, then tires, wheels, etc will be more plentiful. I wouldn't mind burying 26" wheels in favor of 27.5" eventually. I just can't afford to buy a new bike right now. And you're not going to get any good deals on 27.5" tires for a long time.

  5. #5
    orthonormal
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    I have 3 rides so far on a 650B RM Altitude. It's one hell of a fun bike, very similar geometry to the SC Bronson but the Altitude's chainstays are 1/2" shorter. I was looking for something with more travel and slacker angles than my current rides (Ventana El Comandante 29er SS and Epic 29) but didn't want the long wheelbase I'd get with a 5+" travel 29er. I didn't like the Tallboy LTc I test rode but from several years of swapping back and forth between 26 and 29, I knew there were some real positives to a larger wheel size. 650B can work within the same geometrical constraints as a 26" bike but unlike the popular converted Blur TRc's and Mojo HD's, a dedicated 650B frame doesn't have any tire clearance issues.

    Anyhow, I'm having a blast on the new bike. The difference in wheel size isn't something that really catches my attention but I do remember finding it more noticeable when I'd swap between the Ventana and my old Turner 6 Pack.
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  6. #6
    orthonormal
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    Quote Originally Posted by icantdrive65 View Post
    I have a rigid 29er and I love the way those big wheels roll. Much more stable and smooth. I hated the compromise size of 650b, but I really feel that 26" wheels are too small. So replacing 26" with 27.5" makes sense, but I'm not sure the hassle is worth it. If the big 3 jump in, then tires, wheels, etc will be more plentiful. I wouldn't mind burying 26" wheels in favor of 27.5" eventually. I just can't afford to buy a new bike right now. And you're not going to get any good deals on 27.5" tires for a long time.
    A lot of people have been ordering Schwalbes from Germany. The price with shipping works out to be just over half of current retail in the US.
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

  7. #7
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    I was interested in a 650b wheeled bike and demoed a Jamis Nemesis and rode it for a single day on the Kern River Trail near my house and found no real benefit to the bike. I have a Carbon Trek elite 9.8 and felt they rode basiclly the same.

    In the April 2013 issue of MBAction they run some test of the wheels. The average size of a 27.5 wheel with tire is 27.01 inches but the 26 inch wheel size is 25.93 inches is closer to its actual wheel size than the 27.5 or 29 inch(28.54 inches). So if you put a big enough tire on your bike it would almost equate to the same difference. That will save you on a new frame/fork and wheelset.
    Last edited by danmtchl; 04-04-2013 at 03:24 PM.

  8. #8
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    Why do you torture yourself Squashyo when you say you are perfectly happy with your bikes. Don't look at the Precious if you don't want to be tempted.

    Ron took home the Norco and now he is ruined. He just bought a 29er too.


    I think you are fascinated by Graney and his F-bombs
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The 650b chatter continues-img_8813.jpg  

    The 650b chatter continues-img_9042.jpg  

    The 650b chatter continues-img_9045-001.jpg  

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  9. #9
    rox
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    the tire selection is more limited than I was expecting. my usual go-to specialized doesnt have anything. neither does continental. I find a little solace in a hans dampf or minion dhf on the front but what do I run for the back?

  10. #10
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    I'm not torturing myself...but someday I will think about buying another bike and curious if it's worth looking at alternatives. I remember telling my buddy he was retarded when he bought a "shock absorber" for his MTB bike in the late 80s. I also shunned disc brakes, riser seat posts, and platform pedals for years before seeing the light. Nothing wrong with hearing peoples thoughts on the topic. Sorry if I missed your sarcasm filter...
    Peanut butter Tuesday, if you know what I mean!

  11. #11
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    I just watched the whole video... Joe Graney is awesome.

    I wanna know which one of you qualify as one of the "f--king hundred bored, cynical, angry f--ks."

    My other favorite quote: "It's still just a mountain bike"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    I'm not torturing myself...but someday I will think about buying another bike and curious if it's worth looking at alternatives. I remember telling my buddy he was retarded when he bought a "shock absorber" for his MTB bike in the late 80s. I also shunned disc brakes, riser seat posts, and platform pedals for years before seeing the light. Nothing wrong with hearing peoples thoughts on the topic. Sorry if I missed your sarcasm filter...
    Your someday will be come manyX faster if you start these threads. Oh and Sea Otter... I'm renaming it to The 650b Sea Otter. So there will be more temptation there.

    Rox, the race for tires 650b tires is here. Every single company is making them...except for Specialized and Trek until their bikes arrive. The tires and forks are arriving so much faster too than the 29er start.

    fc
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  13. #13
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    I like mine 26ers the way they are. Just recently converted roadie friend from 29er hard tail to 26er AM rig and he sounds quite happier.
    I wouldn't go to difference in attack angle and deflection ratio which given randomness of terrain are not of any sensible importance FOR ME. However I'll acknowledge benefit of bigger wheel in terms of contact patch and therefore traction stability. 650 seems to seek middle ground. Its benefit would imply adopter agrees on benefits of bigger wheel in first place and its just not me.
    Only thing I worry about is spreading production volume across multiple standards and increasing costs as the result. I already hate the fact that 10 speed pretty much replaced 9 speed in volumes and I'd have to change whole drive train/controls to install RD with clutch, since none of them available in 9 speed version.
    Otherwise, happy riding.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalk View Post
    I like mine 26ers the way they are. Just recently converted roadie friend from 29er hard tail to 26er AM rig and he sounds quite happier.
    I wouldn't go to difference in attack angle and deflection ratio which given randomness of terrain are not of any sensible importance FOR ME. However I'll acknowledge benefit of bigger wheel in terms of contact patch and therefore traction stability. 650 seems to seek middle ground. Its benefit would imply adopter agrees on benefits of bigger wheel in first place and its just not me.
    Only thing I worry about is spreading production volume across multiple standards and increasing costs as the result. I already hate the fact that 10 speed pretty much replaced 9 speed in volumes and I'd have to change whole drive train/controls to install RD with clutch, since none of them available in 9 speed version.
    Otherwise, happy riding.
    How come you have no accent when typing?

    Good points. Although there is a lot to be said with riding them in addition to analyzing.

    9 speed is dead. Stick a fork in it. 2x10 pwns it. 1x11 will kill it. The range, quietness and simplicity is unreal. Plus putting the dropper post lever in place of the front derailleur is the one of the finest things ever!

    Photo: Click on the photo and check the dropper post location. This is a game changer when you can hit your dropper post lever at full speed descent, without unwrapping your thumb from the bar.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The 650b chatter continues-img_9040.jpg  

    Last edited by francois; 04-04-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Your someday will be come manyX faster if you start these threads. Oh and Sea Otter... I'm renaming it to The 650b Sea Otter. So there will be more temptation there.

    Rox, the race for tires 650b tires is here. Every single company is making them...except for Specialized and Trek until their bikes arrive. The tires and forks are arriving so much faster too than the 29er start.

    fc
    Do you think that Specialized will ever go 650b? In the Enduro 29 video they seemed pretty anti 650b because of the fact that it is a compromise. If you want the better roll over then just go full on 29.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by danmtchl View Post
    I was interested in a 650b wheeled bike and demoed a Jamis Nemesis and rode it for a single day on the Kern River Trail near my house and found no real benefit to the bike. I have a Carbon Trek elite 9.8 and felt they rode basiclly the same.

    In the April 2013 issue of MBAction they run some test of the wheels. The average size of a 27.5 wheel with tire is 27.01 inches but the 26 inch wheel size is 25.93 inches is closer to its actual wheel size than the 27.5 or 29 inch(28.54 inches). So if you put a big enough tire on your bike it would almost equate to the same difference. That will save you on a new frame/fork and wheelset.

    Good share.

    650b hardtails is a waste of time (unless you're under 5 feet tall). That is the domain of 29ers. 29er hardtails are good and will dominate that market.

    When comparing it's key to stick with the same frame material, specially on a hardtail. Also stay with the same tier manufacturer. For example, it is difficult to compare a Blur TRc 26er to a Jamis Dakar 650b.

    fc
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Pretty good piece out of Bike Mag.
    I LOVED this video but I am admittedly the furthest thing from a gear geek or whatever. In my opinion the bike industry could really benefit from a lot more Graneyism and a lot less marketing speak.

    I also think I want that bike.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanMTB View Post
    Do you think that Specialized will ever go 650b? In the Enduro 29 video they seemed pretty anti 650b because of the fact that it is a compromise. If you want the better roll over then just go full on 29.
    Not for a while.

    Usually, companies will deny interest in a new wheel standard until they have a product to offer. Otherwise, all their customers will wait to buy.

    Specialized takes two years to build a bike wheel size because they are a big company and they spec only with their own wheels and tires. Plus they do a lot of custom R&D on the front and rear suspension.

    So I believe them when they say they won't have 650b this year or next. I think it is a huge mistake because 30+% of the mtbr audience is looking at 650b for their next bike.
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    fc
    Last edited by francois; 04-04-2013 at 04:45 PM.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    I LOVED this video but I am admittedly the furthest thing from a gear geek or whatever. In my opinion the bike industry could really benefit from a lot more Graneyism and a lot less marketing speak.

    I also think I want that bike.
    He could be the new Ferrentino.

    fc
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  20. #20
    orthonormal
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    Quote Originally Posted by rox View Post
    the tire selection is more limited than I was expecting. my usual go-to specialized doesnt have anything. neither does continental. I find a little solace in a hans dampf or minion dhf on the front but what do I run for the back?
    There's a guy on the 650B forum with photos of his Norco Sight B wearing Continental sneakers.
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

  21. #21
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    I've been experimenting with 650B ( 584mm rims and tires ) on both road and MTB bikes over the last couple years. For MTB, it's a lot like putting a real 2.6" tire on the front w/o all the weight. 27.5 gives you some of the benefits of 29'rs with less weight and less compromises in geometry.

    (584/2 ) + 55 nearly the same as ( 559/2 ) + 66

    (or a 27.5 2.2 tire has about the same radius as a 26 2.6 tire )

    The 29'rs I've tried all feel very "big", i.e. you can point them at stuff and just roll over it, but they don't feel agile. ( I guess the buzzword is "flickable"). 27.5 bikes still feel like you can move them around, but you can just point them as well. Granted the 27.5 bikes I've tried have all been hacked conversions of 26" frames. It would be interesting to ride a bike designed for 27.5.

    I think the point that you "can't tell the difference" is kinda the whole point. 29'rs do feel quite different, 27.5 don't. But you can tell the difference when rolling over roots/rocks. There's something real there, but is it worth getting a new bike? Probably not, I'd definitely recommend testing it if you're in the market for 5 inch AM bike.

    And well let's face it, most of us enjoy the toy and tweaking factor that can be part of MTB riding. If you don't you're probably still having fun on your 1993 Hardrock, in the Bay Area at least there really isn't much excuse to ride anything better.

  22. #22
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    I think dude in video brought up a great point, but failed to realize the obvious. Why do people care so much? I'm pretty sure many of us swap parts between various bike and we don't have the luxury of working for SC bikes. With all these new standards, it's becoming increasingly difficult to make this happen.

    Think of all the new standards in the past few years alone
    142x12
    Tapered head tubes
    11 spd drivetrainns
    Large diameter handlebars
    650b
    Etc etc etc

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Good share.

    650b hardtails is a waste of time (unless you're under 5 feet tall). That is the domain of 29ers. 29er hardtails are good and will dominate that market.

    fc
    Not so sure about that....Maybe you like to rip a flowy tight bobsled run with some rollers, where the hard tail and smaller wheels dominate. You still need to pedal up and get through some long fire roads and chunky sections where the bigger wheels cover more ground and seem to rule. 650 Hard Tail may be great combo for some, i definitely know a few...

    Tamarancho seems like a perfect example of this......

    "its just another wheel size option"

  24. #24
    Axe
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    .. I wrote in 650b forum post - one potential development I would be looking forward for form all the 650b fork and frame availability: it should be possible to run very fat 26" tires. Something half way towards fatbikes. Fatbikes are a bit too much.. Maybe 83mm bottom bracket and 150mm rear, and 3" tires on ~40mm wide 26" rims.

    M size for tires, just like M size 650b wheels appeared after 29r became popular.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rox View Post
    the tire selection is more limited than I was expecting. my usual go-to specialized doesnt have anything. neither does continental. I find a little solace in a hans dampf or minion dhf on the front but what do I run for the back?
    Everyday, they keep coming. I told them to call it 650b though, dammit!

    fc
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