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  1. #1
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    2013 Henry W. Coe Trail and Camping Map

    The topic of a new Coe map came up in this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    A brand new park map is being printed up right now; should be available to purchase shortly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline35 View Post
    I'm interested in your comments on the new map (maybe in a new thread). Last revision, they took Alquist away from us so I'm a bit anxious…

    ///Charlie
    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    I haven't seen the map myself; my involvement was limited to providing GPS for some of the re-routed trails (like the Jim Donnelly).

    It was supposed to be delivered Sept 1st so it should be any day now. Only water-proof plastic this time, no paper versions.

    RE the Alquist Trail I'm not sure what happened there; the trail was supposedly the southern boundary of the Orestimba Wilderness Area---the 2006 map declared otherwise. Next time I have a chance I'll inquire. The banning of bikes on the northern portion of Orestimba Creek Road is worrisome also. Rangers say that came all the way from Sacramento; nothing to do with sector or district staff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Can those bastards change access just by printing a map with no due process?


    I found this description of the new map in the Summer 2013 issue of The Ponderosa:

    Henry W. Coe Trail and Camping Map 2013: Coming Soon to a Visitor Center near You
    By Winslow Briggs

    Since the Henry W. Coe State Park trail and camping map was first published in 2002, and with a second edition in 2006, the Pine Ridge Association has sold over 20,000 copies of the park maps—close to 2,000 per year. Present supplies are almost exhausted (indeed there are no plastic maps left and only about 250 paper maps) so there was clearly urgency to publish the third edition. Hence, over the past six months volunteers have actively worked to get a new edition ready for the printer. The PRA is once again having 10,000 maps printed, this time all of them plastic. (Printing the map takes a printer with a LARGE press. Pikes Peak Litho, our printer, claims that if it is no larger than a double bed they can print it.)

    Why not just reprint the existing map? Initially, there were a mere 36 reasons, but closer scrutiny identified another dozen. For example, the Jim Donnelly, Middle Steer Ridge, and Grapevine trails were all realigned to become more user-friendly. Of course, this process changes mileages, eliminates or adds trail junctions, and generally produces some challenging proof-reading. It also changes mileages for various hikes shown in the tables. For some reason, Hartman Peak was never labeled. The word “Falls” was missing after “Hole-in-the Rock.” Arnold Field was left nameless. The trails around the main visitor center were not labeled in the inset map. A major contour line was labeled 1400 in one spot and 1600 nearby. Minor contour intervals were 50 feet for complicated technical reasons and could now be converted to 40-foot intervals like USGS topographical maps. Some trails had been swallowed by voracious chaparral and had fallen into complete disuse. In the worst cases, unused and deleted by nature, they had to be deleted from the map. New springs have been identified and are added. A spring that hadn’t flowed for at least seven years has been eliminated. Our new weather station in the Lakeview acquisition is now shown on the map. “Coyote Creek Entrance” is changed to “Coyote Creek Gate.” (A legitimate park entrance should have at minimum parking space and restroom facilities!) The above is a sampling of the almost 50 items requiring attention. Fortunately, unlike the situation for the 2006 map, there have been no changes in the park’s boundaries—a good thing because the map itself already touches the right-hand margin of the paper. There isn’t much room for expansion.

    The third edition has a lovely image on the front of the Rooster Comb in the springtime taken by Bob Patrie. If you are feeling ambitious, you should make the trip to see the Rooster Comb yourself. Be sure to take the new map along.

    © 2013 The Pine Ridge Association





    So it looks like there will be changes to the trail system; when you get a copy of the 2013 version, please post up any changes that you spot.

    ///Charlie



    p.s. pliebenberg will give a Pliney to the first person who can list all of the 48 "reasons" for the revised map :-)

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    Guessing it will still be missing some trails
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    Unused and deleted by nature?

    Now, if volunteers show up to clean them up (after time++ wasted on redoing a perfectly good JDT) - they will have to go through 10+ years process of getting them approved into existence again?

    Some of those trails had been badly overgrown, but I still could hike them, and even ride them.

    Ugh..

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    The new maps arrived in the HQ Visitor's center this last thursday. I bought one on friday on the way home from a 2 night bikepacking trip. (4 part blog AlphaRoaming | @AlphaRoaming Random outdoor roaming: hiking, cycling, camping, backpacking & plotting more of the above )

    Lakeview Zone "no access" (That sucks. Great area, been there 4 times); Jim Donnelly and one other trail re-aligned. No other trails removed besides Lakeview Zone.

    The lamination is much thinner and less durable. I like my 2006 better...

    If anybody knows the process for closures (e.g. Lakeview zone, no camping at Dowdy, no bikes in Orestimba, etc...please edjacate me.

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    Is there anywhere other than Coe HQ where someone could pickup the new map? Didn't see an answer anywhere online quickly..didn't call anyone.
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    Only available at Coe at HQ...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kattrap View Post
    Is there anywhere other than Coe HQ where someone could pickup the new map? Didn't see an answer anywhere online quickly..didn't call anyone.
    Watch this page Coe Park Maps and when it gets updated you'll be able to mail order the new map.

    I'll bug the webmeister to update the page.
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    Bugging complete...

    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Watch this page Coe Park Maps and when it gets updated you'll be able to mail order the new map.

    I'll bug the webmeister to update the page.
    $9.00 at the store, $11.00 by mail; consider it a donation if you think that's too much!

    Coe Park Maps
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    ...I see Dowdy ranch is closed for the season - is it possible to park somewhere on Aetna before the park?

    Wanted to ride there, and do not feel like making the full loop from HH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karld View Post
    The new maps arrived in the HQ Visitor's center this last thursday. I bought one on friday on the way home from a 2 night bikepacking trip. (4 part blog AlphaRoaming | @AlphaRoaming Random outdoor roaming: hiking, cycling, camping, backpacking & plotting more of the above )

    Lakeview Zone "no access" (That sucks. Great area, been there 4 times); Jim Donnelly and one other trail re-aligned. No other trails removed besides Lakeview Zone.

    The lamination is much thinner and less durable. I like my 2006 better...

    If anybody knows the process for closures (e.g. Lakeview zone, no camping at Dowdy, no bikes in Orestimba, etc...please edjacate me.
    Nice write-up on your trip Karl

    I agree that the plastic seems thinner; don't know if that means it's less durable

    Had a chance to speak with staff "on the record" over the weekend and got some more answers.

    RE Lakeview Addition the closure is old news so I didn't need to ask about that; it's about the public access easements (and lack therof) across private property on Cordoza Ridge and Fitzgerald Ridge Roads. Before the closure one could hike there but there was no way to legally get a bike (especially) or a horse into that zone. But mostly they don't have the funding for the extra staffing it would take to provide patrol if visitors would be using Lakeview. In hindsight (IMHO) it would have been better if the SCC OSA had purchased the land instead of the State; at least from the standpoint of the public getting timely access to it.

    RE camping at the Dowdy Ranch Visitor Center, also old news; really has nothing to do with State Parks---it's about the very strict restrictions the US Fish and Wildlife Service put on the project. Both the San Joaquin Kit Fox and the California Red-Legged Frog figured into the resulting policy. In hindsight perhaps the State never should have tried to put a developed visitor center there. I can send you a copy of the report if you'd like. PM me with your email.

    RE the roads in the Orestimba Zone; what the deal is is that Wilderness areas can't have roads so the roads (primarily Red Creek and Orestimba Creek Roads) are not in the "Wilderness" per se. (There was talk of obliterating them beforehand) but as a matter of common sense prevailing they were needed for resource protection and public safety. So as roads they should be open to bike traffic but here's the catch; Sacramento sees them as park "service roads" (not for public access) so their position is that the "bikes are permitted on roads" policy doesn't apply. (The Red Creek closure has been enforceable for several years now)

    More recently the Orestimba Creek Rd was posted closed to bikes not too far past the Kingbird Pond Trail (this is erroneous IMHO; should be after the Orestimba Creek Trail junction) and this has to do with the Wilderness boundary being the center-line of the creek (not the broad green line printed on the map) and because from that point on the Orestimba Creek Rd weaves from side to side through the creek bed and the portions on the west side of the creek would be in the Wilderness and hence in the "no-bikes-on-service road" classification.

    The silver lining as I see it is that this gives cause to create a bike trail to the east of the creek to connect to the now "land-locked" Mustang Pond. I will be advancing this notion with Parks staff. Stay tuned...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    ...I see Dowdy ranch is closed for the season - is it possible to park somewhere on Aetna before the park?

    Wanted to ride there, and do not feel like making the full loop from HH.
    Yes at the very bottom of Kaiser Aetna Rd near Bell Station; there are parking, picnic and restroom facilities. (I'm guessing also an "iron ranger" but I've never looked for it)

    The State controls Kaiser Aetna Rd all the way from Dowdy Ranch to Bell Station. Occasionally I see guys parking there and riding the 7.8 miles up to the Dowdy and beyond. Not a very secure parking area though; maybe OK for a couple of hours but I'd be nervous about leaving a vehicle overnight. Some folks park just a little ways off 152, maybe a little more secure because of visibility and no fees???
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    There is no Iron Ranger at Bell Station. I've parked there for the day a half dozen or so times. I've also seen the CHP roll through there a few times when I was there. I think it's reasonably safe. Twice I've seen groups who parked there overnight on the weekends and while I didn't talk to them there was no broken window or such.
    I like the ride up to the Dowdy Entrance from there because there's alot of wildlife. I've always seen deer, usually seen pigs and occasionally seen elk. I've also seen many different birds. (PS I have old funky cars, maybe that make me safer)

  13. #13
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    The new park map is now available online.

    $9 at the park, $11 shipped.

    Coe Park Maps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddy View Post
    $9 at the park, $11 shipped.

    Coe Park Maps
    Nice bump Ed; did you see post #8?
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    Oops and another bump.

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    T a s v p c ...

    ... stands for Coe's Trails and Springs Volunteer Planning Committee and we had a meeting last night. These meetings are where Coe's uniformed (and non-uniformed) volunteers get together with the staff and discuss park matters such as trails and springs and almost anything else related to park management and maintenance.

    Attended by 13; 2 from staff, one Ranger and one from Maintenance; 10 uniformed volunteers and one interested individual from the public. The theory is that the volunteers will be representing the various user groups at Coe; since everybody hikes it could be said that hikers are very well represented. There were 3 representing equestrian interests and 1-1/2 representing biking (me + 1 hiker converting to biking + 1 biking guy from the public)

    I'm writing this post because the topic of the new map brought forth a lively conversation; the equestrian group was very disappointed to learn that certain trails had been eliminated from the current edition. A couple of the volunteers (with much deeper involvement in the new map than me) were queried as to why the choices were made to abandon certain trails.

    The answer was really kind of lame; the reviewers couldn't find the trails so they didn't qualify for inclusion. It was more like they couldn't see the trails while seated in their SUV so they must not be getting any use. (At Coe many trails "disappear" with the eruption of the spring grasses)

    Further enervating the horse folks was when they learned that they will now have to obey the same "no off-trail riding" the we MTBers have to obey. And off-trail means that if a trail isn't on the map then one is going off-trail. Highly unlikely that anybody would be cited for such an offense given how under-staffed the Rangers are; wouldn't hurt to save an old version of the map just in case.

    Further clarity on the Orestimba closures was given; and apparently the Orestimba Creek Trail is off-limits to bikes year-round; not just during the Back-Country Weekend event.

    It was nearly unanimously agreed that a new trail should be built to Jackrabbit lake for bicycling access. Park's staff that were present agreed with the notion; only one of the hikers seemed cool to the idea.

    Stay tuned...
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    The answer was really kind of lame; the reviewers couldn't find the trails so they didn't qualify for inclusion. It was more like they couldn't see the trails while seated in their SUV so they must not be getting any use. (At Coe many trails "disappear" with the eruption of the spring grasses)
    They could just login to Strava and check for recent tracks.. Don't even need to get out in SUV.

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    I agree. I have parked at Bell Station about 4 times with no issues, for the long slog up the road on foot or bike. Twice I have seen a CHP car. Might be a common spot for them to hang-out, out of sight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    ...Further clarity on the Orestimba closures was given; and apparently the Orestimba Creek Trail is off-limits to bikes year-round; not just during the Back-Country Weekend event.
    Ugh.

    This is posted on the Corral end of the Orestimba Creek Trail:



    (10/27/2012) (It's also at HQ.)

    The Orestimba Creek Trail is not specifically listed as No Bikes and is on the non-Wilderness side of the creek.

    Has that District Supervisor's Order been revised recently?

    Thanks for the information, Paul.

    ///Charlie

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    Paul, nice writeup! I just now saw your post from last week regarding closed areas. Thanks!

    As you know, " closures like Lakeview and no camping at Dowdy, without public input or anyone from Coe even being able to provide any documentation, bothers me.

    The issue last night of "we couldn't find the trail so now you can't use it" was bizarre! Thanks again!

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    The Orestimba Road passes over the creek such that the road is in the wilderness, for a small part, just past Kingbird Pond. (The creek being the boundary)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline35 View Post
    Ugh.

    The Orestimba Creek Trail is not specifically listed as No Bikes and is on the non-Wilderness side of the creek.

    Has that District Supervisor's Order been revised recently?

    ///Charlie
    Ranger Cam is who was supplying this information; he said the documentation exists at Coe HQ---we need to ask to see it posted.

    Yes with the changing of the guard with the budget shuffle some orders are being rescinded and un-rescinded. Probably be worth the while to schedule a meeting with the District Superintendent (when the music stops playing) with a shopping list of trails that should be opened.

    BTW there's a proposed rule-making in Sacramento that changes the "roads and trails are open to bicycles unless closed" (in State Parks) to the exact opposite. IMBA's been fighting this; I don't know where it currently stands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by karld View Post
    Paul, nice writeup! I just now saw your post from last week regarding closed areas. Thanks!

    As you know, " closures like Lakeview and no camping at Dowdy, without public input or anyone from Coe even being able to provide any documentation, bothers me.

    The issue last night of "we couldn't find the trail so now you can't use it" was bizarre! Thanks again!
    BTW karld is the "+ 1 biking guy from the public"!

    Yeah the State Parks Dept. give the District Superintendent a lot of power when it comes to managing his or her District. "Due process" is easily side-stepped especially at a park like Coe that does not have a current Master Plan and no Trails Master Plan at all. The opinions of the superintendent sets the "law".

    Wild wild west I tells ya...
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    You "out-ed" me! It was interesting to join the meeting last night. It seems there's little we can do about annoying closures, unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    BTW karld is the "+ 1 biking guy from the public"!

    Yeah the State Parks Dept. give the District Superintendent a lot of power when it comes to managing his or her District. "Due process" is easily side-stepped especially at a park like Coe that does not have a current Master Plan and no Trails Master Plan at all. The opinions of the superintendent sets the "law".

    Wild wild west I tells ya...
    My sense is that is what gave us so much bike access, both trails and night-riding, the management 10 years ago happened to be pretty cool. (I think Paul N told me that.)


    Re Orestimba Creek Road. Is that even viable in the long run? It invades the creek so many times destroying habitat.

    ///Charlie

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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Ranger Cam is who was supplying this information; he said the documentation exists at Coe HQ---we need to ask to see it posted.
    I have asked twice recently at Coe HQ for closure details. One Senior Volunteer and one paid Coe staff member. Neither one knew of any documentation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karld View Post
    As you know, " closures like Lakeview and no camping at Dowdy, without public input or anyone from Coe even being able to provide any documentation, bothers me.
    To expand on this; it's a bit troubling to me also.

    In the case of Lakeview; it's easy to be hardliner and argue that since the CEQA process hasn't been completed (like with public comment) it can't be opened. It should be in the MP (revised) and have a TMP completed. All these niceties are a long way off given the budget problems. But you noticed that staff seemed to think access would be OK if the neighboring CoSC OSA was open for business. Might be best not to wait for public comment!

    In the case of the Dowdy closure there must have been a public comment period (although I have been unable to locate the EIR; there may be a copy in Monterey) but I suspect the State was too deep into the project to modify it to allow camping and simultaneously placate the USF&W. I don't think there's anything the public could say that would have changed the strict limitations ordered by the USF&W for the Dowdy VC project.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Yes with the changing of the guard with the budget shuffle some orders are being rescinded and un-rescinded. Probably be worth the while to schedule a meeting with the District Superintendent (when the music stops playing) with a shopping list of trails that should be opened.
    I guess it's a pipe dream to think that Alquist Tr should go on that shopping list. It was open to bikes not so long ago.

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    The Supervising Ranger, at the time, once told me that he knew what I was up to and he didn't like it. Perhaps I should have asked him what he thought that was. I did not. In retrospect I sometimes wonder what that was. To some degree, I wasn't sure of it myself, and so I remain curious.

    Henry W. Coe is a peculiar case. It's big enough to be a National Park. But it is probably not important enough to be a NP. That is beside the point though. The existng trails beg for brushing, maintenance, and improvement. Reasons for reroutes abound. Common sense and informed opinion will converge and be unanimous on the same prescriptions.

    If these trails in question are not used, they will not be maintained, and they will disappear. The policy in essence, if not in fact, presages the disappearance of many trails. Unless people use them, trails disappear.

    All efforts to go window shopping are positive.

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    Adding more observations of the new version…


    Redacted:
    Gunsight
    • Roads in the Thomas Addition
    • A bunch of unnamed dirt roads between Ravin Pond and Bullhead Reservoir.
    Connector dirt road between Coit Dam Trail and Coit Road (ha, they left the "map pin")


    • Pinto Creek Trail was shown previously with a "obscure road" line, it's now on the map with an "obscure trail" line.


    Cross reference to a later thread on same topic.

    ///Charlie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline35 View Post
    Adding more observations of the new version…


    Redacted:
    Gunsight
    • Roads in the Thomas Addition
    • A bunch of unnamed dirt roads between Ravin Pond and Bullhead Reservoir.
    Connector dirt road between Coit Dam Trail and Coit Road (ha, they left the "map pin")


    • Pinto Creek Trail was shown previously with a "obscure road" line, it's now on the map with an "obscure trail" line.


    Cross reference to a later thread on same topic.

    ///Charlie
    RE:
    "Gunsight" is in the database as a "no-name" trail; "NN085"---the database notes recommend that it be extended down to Walsh Cabin. I haven't a clue at to why it wasn't left on the map.

    Neither do I have a clue as to why "Drift Fence Trail" (an official trail; "DFT") was again left off; I offered to GPS the route and my suggestion went nowhere.

    Basically, roads and trails are only shown if they're publicly accessible. There's a couple of exceptions; those may just be goofs.

    In the database that short Coit Dam Trail>Coit Rd "road" actually has a name; "Snake Trail"---and that's "Snake Pond" just to the north of it (I just learned something!) Again; no idea as to why it was on the hit list.

    In the Orestimba eventually the only road left will be Red Creek Rd (a service road not technically in the wilderness); everything else will be left to decay to trail status or less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Basically, roads and trails are only shown if they're publicly accessible.
    Well, after running a couple rogaines/orienteering there, I saw many leftover bits out there, not on maps. But since hiking/running of trail is allowed, it is all accessible.

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    Keep them alive



    There is so much out there, still.

    Gunsight was a favorite pipe dream of mine, for a brief window in time after the Lick Fire of 07', an incredibly thrilling downhill, all the way to the Walsh Cabin. This connection came into focus when the Dowdy VC was developed. The Walsh homestead is a historical feature recounted in the VC museum display. It was thought that, at least by me anyway, that since this was a principal attraction, it would be worthy to maintain and improve the Walsh Cabin Trail.

    The Walsh Cabin sits in the bottom of a cold canyon below Center Flats Rd, Pacheco Ridge Rd, and Live Oak Springs Rd. All the trails leading down there, including Gunsight, are falling down steep, brushy, and basically pure hell.

    I had big ideas about taming all of this, and did a lot of trail work out there with folks here, and other volunteers, some years ago.

    Fast forward to today. Well, now it's so strange... Dowdy VC is rapidly declining into ruin. Bell Station access is quirky. Trail development out there simply lacks enough reason. I will probably just have to wait until the next big fire comes through and opens this area up again. The a s*&( load of poison oak out there too.

    On a side note, Winslow Briggs and the Senior Ranger, among others, are fond of the idea of rehabilitating the trail(s) to Walsh Peak (a fine rocky prominence reminiscent of the Old Man of Mountains at Franconia Notch in the New Hampshire White Mountains). I think that's a great idea too. The main caveat myself and other volunteers seemed to have was that we needed to upgrade to mechanized power brushing and chainsaws to take this, and other trails (example: Mud Spring), even if the problem of permission to re-open a historical trail was surmountable.

    Well, I've enjoyed taking a year off from these little trail snags, that's for sure.
    Last edited by Jack Burns; 11-26-2013 at 10:28 AM. Reason: sp

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    Interesting post. Thank you! I will need to look-up Walsh Cabin on my map and add it to my "to do" list. The White Cabin was an interesting word of mouth discovery a few years ago, as well.

    Your thoughts of hoping (and working towards) broader access and usage in Coe indeed seems to be bucking the trend. Coe is still sparsely used beyond the HQ zone; trails and access are being reduced (e.g. No bikes in Orestimba and the beautiful Lakeview Zone is now closed); and the PRA and the State are hard to move from the status quo (for a variety of reasons, which frustrate me as a potential volunteer with a "get it done or move on" personality.)

  35. #35
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    We had one control off Walsh cabin trail on Nov. 3 rogaine, and neither Walsh nor Gunsight are on Vladimir's map. I see somebody did put them on OSM cycle, but I did not even notice where it was after running across - though I did not make it down to the creek. I hope if he develops Dowdy ranch map into a proper orienteering area - I think it is the best orienteering terrain in the bay area from Dowdy to Pacheco camp, we can put all what is there for people to discover.

    It was nice to see all the people at normally closed off and rotting away Dowdy parking lot - when weather was actually perfect for visiting. Hopefully more people will get familiar with the area if those events continue..

    some pictures I found on FB..

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    I hope the events don't continue. I've been riding out of Bell Station and I like it empty and lonely. The visitor center can rot for all I care, but I do hope they keep the water running.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donutnational View Post
    I hope the events don't continue. I've been riding out of Bell Station and I like it empty and lonely. The visitor center can rot for all I care, but I do hope they keep the water running.
    Are you serious? Few events per year annoy you? Have we seen you on that weekend?

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    Quote Originally Posted by karld View Post
    I have asked twice recently at Coe HQ for closure details. One Senior Volunteer and one paid Coe staff member. Neither one knew of any documentation.
    Do we really want the documentation? The option of plausible deniability may have merit. If one applied to the Sector Superintendent, the disappointment might then be received, posted, and subsequently enforced.

    Messed up situation anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Are you serious? Few events per year annoy you? Have we seen you on that weekend?
    Nope.

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