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  1. #1
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    2 Important Meetings for Silicon Valley Mountain Bikers 11/1 & 11/7

    Two important meetings if you want more mountain biking in Silicon Valley.


    Santa Clara County Parks and Recreation Commission (PRC) Meeting
    DATE: Wednesday, November 01, 2017
    TIME: 6:30 PM
    Isaac Newton Senter Auditorium
    County Government Center
    70 W. Hedding Street, 1st Floor

    San Jose, CA 95110


    People who live near and around Sanborn County Park intend to show up at the Santa Clara County Parks and Recreation Commission (PRC) Meeting and voice their displeasure with the Sanborn Bike Park Proposal. WE NEED TO SHOW UP! It’s really important to get as many kids and parents there as possible and have them address the committee. Here’s a link to a FAQ on our current proposal. http://www.svmtb.org
    During the Public Comment, which is second on the agenda, we will have a chance to speak on the Bike Parks behave. Speakers are limited to the following: three minutes if the Chairperson or designee determines that five or fewer persons wish to address the Commission; two minutes if the Chairperson or designee determines that between six and fourteen persons wish to address the Commission; and one minute if the Chairperson or designee determines that fifteen or more persons wish to address the Commission. If we are pressed for time, people can yield their time to someone else so they can speak longer. NOTE: You need to fill out a card prior to the meeting to speak.


    Sanborn County Master Plan
    DATE: Tuesday, November 07, 2017
    TIME: 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM
    Joan Pisani Community Center
    19655 Allendale Avenue
    Saratoga, CA 95070


    Do you more trails than the John Nicholas trail in Sanborn County Park? Santa Clara County Parks and Recreation Department is in the process of preparing a master plan for Sanborn County Park. The Sanborn County Master Plan will be a guiding document that outlines the Parks Department’s long-term vision for the park, including recreational activities like mountain biking. We need mountain bikers to show up to help shape the future.


    "The world is run by those who show up.” - Robert Johnson


    Hope to see you there,


    Sean

  2. #2
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    This thread needs more attention, there is an opportunity here!

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    Not receiving love from the neighbors :)

    It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood

    2 Important Meetings for Silicon Valley Mountain Bikers 11/1 & 11/7-img_1255.jpg2 Important Meetings for Silicon Valley Mountain Bikers 11/1 & 11/7-img_1256.jpg

  5. #5
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    Seriously, where did they come up with 650 to 1700 users per day? We'll be lucky if 30-40 mountain bikers show up for tomorrow's meeting.

  6. #6
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    Wait, it's a 'Theme Park?!?!' I hate Theme Parks.

    I can say, based on what just went down in Santa Cruz with the Parks and Rec Master Plan that the opposition will show up and they will make absurd claims. The key to success is to ensure that their voice doen't out-size their actual presence. Stay positive, stay fact-based, and let the NIMBY's shoot themselves in their collective feet. It's working in Santa Cruz, of all places...onward.

    Thanks to SVMTB for their leadership on this!
    Support local trail-building: www.mbosc.org
    Help our most vulnerable population: www.goodkarmabikes.org

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95124 View Post
    Seriously, where did they come up with 650 to 1700 users per day? We'll be lucky if 30-40 mountain bikers show up for tomorrow's meeting.
    apples and oranges. I don't know where the 650-1700 number came from but if only 30-40 people show up tomorrow night, shame on us as a mountain bike community. For the biggest meeting on the Parks and Rec plan in Santa Cruz we had 300+ show up...they had to have an overflow seating area for all those beautiful people. Numbers matter folks...show up and be heard.
    Support local trail-building: www.mbosc.org
    Help our most vulnerable population: www.goodkarmabikes.org

  8. #8
    Formerly dvo
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    Complaints about Mid Pen garner 195 responses, 6700 page views and is linked to on MTBR's Facebook etc. A chance to help create alternatives to the problem gets hardly any attention at all.
    I'm the problem....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbrdan View Post
    Complaints about Mid Pen garner 195 responses, 6700 page views and is linked to on MTBR's Facebook etc. A chance to help create alternatives to the problem gets hardly any attention at all.
    What he said.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  10. #10
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    If only I were retired (retarded?) as are all these NIMBY cornhole hiker nazis… I could show up on a weekday.
    one by nine works just fine but single speed is all ya need

  11. #11
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    bump

  12. #12
    fc
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    Meeting tonight is promoted to thousands of local FB contingent. Is there a uniform? Speaking bullet points?

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/5998404054/ - turkey ride

    https://www.facebook.com/Soquel-Demo...8491902668497/ - flow

    https://www.facebook.com/francoismtbr - fc



    If a concern really is traffic, Gap and John Nicholas will display that it's not a big impact. The true huge traffic impact there is the dozens of Christmas tree farms there and beyond.
    Last edited by fc; 11-01-2017 at 10:29 AM.
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  13. #13
    climbing optimized
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    The trail consultant's proposal included parking for about 10x the number of cars that park by the JNT trailhead on a busy weekend day. What's actually proposed or done may differ but that's what opponents have to go on now.

    Christmas tree season traffic is mostly on lower Black and happens for only a couple weekends a year.

    Traffic on Black wouldn't be an issue if everyone went to the park via 9 and 35 but until there's a study done no one knows how many will go that way vs Black.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
    Traffic on Black wouldn't be an issue if everyone went to the park via 9 and 35 but until there's a study done no one knows how many will go that way vs Black.
    or rode there.
    Support local trail-building: www.mbosc.org
    Help our most vulnerable population: www.goodkarmabikes.org

  15. #15
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    Summer weekends are likely to be the busiest days for the proposed park. Summer weekends are also the busiest days for beach traffic with Hwy 17 routinely backed up to Camden/San Tomas or further and Los Gatos surface streets gridlocked. Given the choice of sitting in 17 traffic to get to Black Road or going up 9 to 35 it seems obvious that on those weekends at least there will be little to none bike park traffic on Black Road.

  16. #16
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    FYI, the "big plan" is being adjusted to start with a pilot. Tentatively consisting of a directional, bike specific loop. The DH would be at "intermediate" level. There would be some kind of skills area or pump track in the pilot. The pilot is being pursued because it could be potentially quicker (and develop momentum) and prove the need. Layout would attempt to discourage shuttling. While I would be happier with the full park as described, a directional bike only trail would be a win in my book.

    As for the neighbors concerns, mostly revolves around black road being narrow resulting in challenges for emergency services for the area and conflicts with bikers/drivers and visitors/neighbors. Someone else mentioned a traffic study and it seems like that will be important. The neighbors have concerns with the existing road situation so this project could give them a helipad to improve (not necessarily fix) emergency services. Depending on the traffic survey, there may be calming measures that can improve life for the neighbors (i.e. well placed turnouts) that wouldn't get the funding without higher traffic volumes on the road.

    That is just my .02 cents from a few meetings I have attended. If I have misrepresented anything, please correct me. The major point is the plan is not complete or final but, being developed through active meetings involving all sides. The need for bike specific trails of higher degree of difficulty is needed and can be successfully built into a win for county residents.

    Unfortunately, I can't make it tonight. Thanks for those that can make it. Please post how it goes, so I can be informed when I attend the Nov 7th meeting.

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    I've sent some speaking points to a few I know that are going to show. I should have published some but I ran out of time. If someone says what you had plan to say, just say that that your point was made by another person. This will respect the PRC's time. I plan on handing out a formal statement to the PRC and an modified from our website FAQ. It's more important for women and children to speak

  18. #18
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    FYI: DO NOT PARK at the Civic Center Garage it closes at 7PM. And they lock it.

  19. #19
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    I was a bit shocked to see so few mountain bikers at this meeting I thought we would get more support . The residents who live off Black Road sure showed up they all wore Red shirts and spoke there concerns and most of the room was red shirts . It was actually kind of offensive towards the bike Park . I like to have compassion for the folks who live off Black Road and hear there concerns but this could be a win win situation, for both sides if we could get more support and show them we can have the park and not effect there roads and work with here concerns . Hope more bikers show up to the next meeting in November.

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    Disappointing for sure, residents outnumbered mtn bikers 2 or 3 to one. The residents are very organized and we are not. I guess if mountain bikers can’t be bothered to get off their butts and show up to be counted we don’t have any right to complain there are no new trails. This is NOT the same as fighting MidPen, County Parks wants to build the bike park but that doesn’t mean we can just sit back and expect it to happen.

    Next meeting is next Tuesday on the Sanborn master plan.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95124 View Post
    Disappointing for sure, residents outnumbered mtn bikers 2 or 3 to one. The residents are very organized and we are not. I guess if mountain bikers can’t be bothered to get off their butts and show up to be counted we don’t have any right to complain there are no new trails. This is NOT the same as fighting MidPen, County Parks wants to build the bike park but that doesn’t mean we can just sit back and expect it to happen.

    Next meeting is next Tuesday on the Sanborn master plan.
    I totally agree.

  22. #22
    Aussie Bob
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    Very disheartening we were out numbered out gunned and speakers had only 60 second s to have their say which they had a least 20 to our 5 or six speakers they defiantly got their point across , with a lot of wrong assessments in their statements . Thank you to all my mountain biker family who did show up cheers Aussie Bob !

  23. #23
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    thanks to the folks that did show...it's always important to 'show up.'

    Thanks Sean and crew for continuing to drive on this...it's going to be super rad.
    Support local trail-building: www.mbosc.org
    Help our most vulnerable population: www.goodkarmabikes.org

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    I personally want to thank everyone for showing up, especially early in this process. It does make a difference in the long run. We now know what the challenges are going to be including the amount of incorrect information is out there, even though we had a few neighbors at the REI meetings. Funny how much damage Facebook and Next Door can do in the hands of the wrong person. On the bright side, I had an elderly woman sitting behind me who said, "I'm an equestrian and I don't understand why there isn't mountain bike park. They have motorcycle parks."

    Cheers!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider95124 View Post
    Seriously, where did they come up with 650 to 1700 users per day? We'll be lucky if 30-40 mountain bikers show up for tomorrow's meeting.
    Yeah, right. On a demo day, you would get anything near 650-1700 users on that day. I'd expect it would be at most a couple hundred riders on a weekend day and under a hundred riders on a weekday.

    It would be nice if the bike manufacturers would get involved. They would have a much stronger presence. Also, it is in their best interest to support the trail systems because more people riding and enjoying riding means more bikes sold.

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    No quote
    Last edited by rider95033; 11-03-2017 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Forgot to quote original

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    If only I were retired (retarded?) as are all these NIMBY cornhole hiker nazis… I could show up on a weekday.
    Nice....its stupid posts like this that give the rest of us decent mtbr's a bad rep

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    If only I were retired (retarded?) as are all these NIMBY cornhole hiker nazis… I could show up on a weekday.
    Just a head's up on this particular issue that the primary argument against the proposed trail / park development doesn't seem to revolve around user group conflict (a la hikers versus bikers). The primary issue seems to be the fragility of Black Road and the perception that traffic on Black Road will increase substantially and, hence, hinder residents..particularly in the case of an emergency situation where they would have to use Black Road...they were really playing off of the recent fires as cause for heightened concern.

    To your point, however, my perception is that the Black Road argument is simply the best argument they have and that the root issue is NIMBYism.
    Support local trail-building: www.mbosc.org
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  29. #29
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    2 Important Meetings for Silicon Valley Mountain Bikers 11/1 & 11/7

    Quote Originally Posted by rider95033 View Post
    Nice....its stupid posts like this that give the rest of us decent mtbr's a bad rep
    I agree.
    Last edited by fc; 11-03-2017 at 08:17 PM.
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  30. #30
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    Bump and reminder that the Sanborn meeting is this evening:

    Sanborn County Master Plan
    DATE: Tuesday, November 07, 2017
    TIME: 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM
    Joan Pisani Community Center
    19655 Allendale Avenue
    Saratoga, CA 95070

    This is NOT MidPen - Santa Clara County parks does not hate cyclists, but they do need to hear what residents want from their trails. By participating the the Calero master planning process, we are about to have a bunch of new multi-use trails opened up in the the spring of 2018, in a county park that previously had no bicycle access.

    Sanborn has huge potential, but cyclists need to advocate for more trails like John Nicholas, more narrow multi-use, and more regional connectors, while plugging support for the Sanborn Bike Park.

    -D

  31. #31
    climbing optimized
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    The anti bike park people put flyers in residents' mailboxes encouraging them to show up and protest the bike park. They're also against any new MTB trails in Sanborn.

    The 2008 Sanborn Master Plan had new trails for MTBs (and new hiking and horse trails). Only JNT and opening Skyline trail happened.

    2018 master plan info: https://www.sccgov.org/sites/parks/P...mstr-plan.aspx

    2008 master plan: https://www.sccgov.org/sites/parks/P...ster-Plan.aspx

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    Parks are for recreation! SSC Parks is working on the master plan, but tonight they want feedback on the initial concepts. Let's please try to stay positive. The anti MTB Park people may actually help us get more biking in other parts of the park if we play nice. There will be more meetings in the future. Hope you see you there.

    S

  33. #33
    fc
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    I went to the first part of this meeting. I’ll let others report on it and give a wrap-up and next steps.
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  34. #34
    fc
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    a few photos. Red clothing is anti-bike. Show of hands indicated 85% anti bike.

    2 Important Meetings for Silicon Valley Mountain Bikers 11/1 & 11/7-img_1797.heic.jpg

    2 Important Meetings for Silicon Valley Mountain Bikers 11/1 & 11/7-img_1798.heic.jpg

    2 Important Meetings for Silicon Valley Mountain Bikers 11/1 & 11/7-img_1800.heic.jpg
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  35. #35
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    Here’s a recap of the Sanborn County Park Master Plan Meeting:

    From the very start of the meeting, it made it clear that this was the first step in the process and that no decisions have been made. The objective of the meeting was to get recommendations for the development, improvement and/or use of the Park’s facilities, the Welch Hurst House, the Christensen Nursery site, the Dyer House, and the former Christmas tree farm for Santa Clara County residents. In the presentation, Santa Clara County Parks identified the Christmas tree lots as an area for “Potential Future Active Recreation.” I’ve been to a number of these meetings before, and the way they are usually run is that a presentation is made and then feedback is received by breaking into smaller groups and commenting on the presentation.

    It seemed like the entire community (60+ people) of Las Cumbres, Los Gatos, which is located in Santa Cruz County, dominated the conversation. All they wanted to discuss was the former Christmas tree lot, which is where we've been discussing adding mountain biking. The Las Cumbres community then tried to highjack the agenda and focus only on the mountain biking plans, Black Rd issues, environmental impact, etc. The moderator did a good job focusing the mob and sticking to the agenda.

    There were maybe 15 to 20 people there supporting mountain biking and maybe 5 people there interested in the whole general plan. The real problem came when we broke into smaller groups. You had one mountain biker to five Las Cumbres. Or to put it another way, one Santa Clara County resident to five Santa Cruz County residents.

    General Observations:

    Black Rd. traffic seems to be their primary issue

    The Las Cumbres people seem divided on mountain biking in general: half were against any mountain biking, and the other half were in favor of mountain biking in other parts of the park like the Christensen Nursery site.

    If more people from Santa Clara County don’t show up, the Las Cumbres residents are going to have a major say in the Master Plan.

    A number of us MTB friendly people spoke on the side or stayed later to talk to smaller groups of Las Cumbres residents. These were friendly conversations that help identify a really big issue. A few Las Cumbres residents are prolific in spreading “false facts” and constantly broadcasting to Facebook and NextDoor.

    There are almost 2 million people in Santa Clara County and mountain biking is the second most popular activity in parks.

    Thanks for reading. If you have any ideas or thoughts I would be very interested.

    Sean

  36. #36
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    I was there. And once again its really frustrating and sad to see the lack of support on our side from Mountain bikers not supporting this plan. We are maybe at 20 percent compared to 80 to 90 percent against a bike park . And we are definitely out spoken. I spoke with some residents and they listened to what I had to say . One women just steamed rolled me Her listening skills where pathetic. Some of this process is just showing up and educating others to our desires . The residents have built up ideas in their own mind that are not true to our desires. I just sent an email to michael.hettenhausen@PRK.SCCGOV.ORG and just received a nice reply to my ideas. IF You can't show up at least send some letters to the planners. And watch what you say on this site.

  37. #37
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    Thanks for the update! When is the next meeting?

  38. #38
    rj2
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    a few photos. Red clothing is anti-bike. Show of hands indicated 85% anti bike.
    If they're Star Trek fans, we should show up in command gold next time.
    We take care of your technology needs so you can focus on what's important.

  39. #39
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    whew, that meeting was strange. I agree with what others said. That's ok. Its a public forum and everyone has a right to their thing. The good part is that we are at the beginning and mt biking has a seat at the table. Do we want to keep that seat? Ideally more mt bikers show up to the meetings. I see no point in arguing with anyone as we are the beginning. Opportunities to share your opinions are still available via email and at the next meeting. Each of us don't need to deliver the Gettysburg address, just a short and concise message on what you would like to see out of county parks. I am going to send the following note to my county supervisor and the parks dept, feel free to do the same.

    As a Santa Clara County homeowner for the past 12 years I would like to thank you for the resources and effort that is going into the Sanborn County Park planning. I would like to express my desire for more intermediate to advanced level mountain bike trails in the county parks. Currently, advanced level mountain biking trails are non-existent in the county and extremely limited in the bay area. I ride my mountain bike at a minimum twice a week and that requires that I drive outside the county to do so. This results in additional traffic and spending my money outside the county. I would like to ask that you ensure intermediate and advanced mountain biking opportunities are provided in Sanborn County Park and other areas within county parks as the opportunity presents itself.

    I look forward to continuing to participate in the master planning process that county parks is coordinating.

    Thank you,
    name
    address
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    Last edited by Hel Mot; 11-08-2017 at 10:36 PM.

  40. #40
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    Here's the latest update, after the planners went back to the drawing board to address the concerns of a small group of local residents. There was the perception that not enough options were considered for the site. "Wildlife park", is likely a way to get some public access to the site, with minimal impact/attendance. Not a done deal, so if you have constructive feedback, feel free to email Kim, keeping in mind that the planners that I have spoken to are agnostic as to the outcome and are truly trying to satisfy the public. In this day and age, being vocal counts, even if the minority.

    I'm not sure why this topic has been broken into so many threads, but here are two prior discussions.

    One.

    Two.

    -D


    From: Brosseau, Kimberly
    Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 5:01:26 PM
    Subject: Project Update on the Sanborn Master Plan

    Project Update on the Sanborn Master Plan (January 12, 2018)

    The County Parks Department is continuing our analysis and preliminary design development phase of the Master Plan for Sanborn County Park. We are also currently reviewing and analyzing a new concept of a Wildlife Park at the former Christmas Tree Farm site. We have secured two contracts this month to study additional information regarding the existing conditions in and around the entire study area of the Master Plan: one contract is a Traffic and Access Study and the other is an Infrastructure Study. We expect this analysis phase of work to be completed within 1 to 3 months, starting mid-January. After we receive the findings from the two studies, we will analyze the information and begin to draft preliminary design recommendations for the Park. After we draft the preliminary design recommendations we will hold a second public meeting to gather feedback. Once preferred recommendations are selected, a Project Description under the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) will be developed and the environmental review phase of the project can begin, including public review and comment. With feedback from the public and the information obtained through our analysis, we will then finalize the Plan recommendations and prepare the Draft Master Plan. The Draft Plan will then be routed for consideration through public meetings to the various decision-making bodies including the Parks and Recreation Commission (PRC), the Housing, Land Use, Environment and Transportation committee (HLUET) and the Board of Supervisors (BOS). The Master Plan is not finalized and adopted until the Board of Supervisors adopts the Master Plan and the CEQA findings. We anticipate the routing of the Master Plan to begin later this summer or fall.
    It is difficult to provide a specific timeline as the planning process is somewhat variable and many of the phases overlap. However, we would like to provide the following tentative schedule, which is organized chronologically.

    The following is a tentative timeline for Sanborn Master Plan*:

    1. Continue analysis / design development (ongoing and could take several months)
    2. Preferred ideas / recommended design development (ongoing and could take several months)
    3. Environmental review (CEQA) (begins once a full Project Description is ready)
    4. Public meeting (includes environmental review process)
    5. Draft Master Plan development (several months)
    6. Draft CEQA document development (anywhere from 4 – 24 months depending on type of CEQA document)
    7. Parks and Recreation Commission (PRC) public meeting - review of draft plan (at least one month for agenda scheduling, staff report preparation and routing)
    8. HLUET public meeting - review of draft plan (at least one month for agenda scheduling, staff report preparation and routing)
    9. Board of Supervisors public meeting - review and approval of Master Plan and CEQA document (at least one month for agenda scheduling, staff report preparation and routing)
    10. Plan implementation (ongoing)

    * Note this is an approximation of time and may change due to a variety of circumstances.

    The previous project update on the Sanborn Master Plan was added to the website on December 1, 2017, and included an update on the public meeting that was held on November 7, 2017, including the summary notes from that meeting.

    We will continue to keep you informed as project updates become available. Project updates will be posted on our website and sent out to those on our email list. You can access our website at https://www.sccgov.org/sites/parks/P...mstr-plan.aspx
    Thank you,
    Kim


    Kimberly Brosseau, AICP, Senior Planner
    Santa Clara County Parks | 298 Garden Hill Drive | Los Gatos, CA 95032
    408.355.2230 phone | 408-355-2290 fax | http://www.parkhere.org
    Last edited by Diesel~; 01-13-2018 at 08:17 AM. Reason: grammar

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