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  1. #401
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    I think I'll be going back to 2x10 soon. I love my 1x11 for XC racing under 2 hours, but I start seeing the effects of not having a really easy bail gear on longer rides (4+ hours) where climbing starts to get tough. Marathon race season is coming up, and most of the races take 3.5-7 hours (one of them being 40 miles of trail + 40 miles of dirt/paved), and I'm thinking I'd like to have the lower gear options for when I'm exhausted.

  2. #402
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    Is it possible to just throw a double crank and front der on a 1x11 and end up with a 2x11?

  3. #403
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    I went to a clutch rr der yesterday on my 1x9. I am enjoying the silence, and am going to lose 56 grams off my gut to make up for the added rr der weight.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    Is it possible to just throw a double crank and front der on a 1x11 and end up with a 2x11?
    I think so. You'll need a longer a longer chain and check what range of gears the derailleur can handle.

    Also, need to get rid of the narrow/wide chainring since those cannot shift.

    But would love to hear about the experience.

    fc
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  5. #405
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    I think shimano offers 1x, 2x and even 3x (who knows why...) with 11 in back.

    Personally, I'd love to have a 2x again, if someone could silence it!!!

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtJunky View Post
    I think shimano offers 1x, 2x and even 3x (who knows why...) with 11 in back.

    Personally, I'd love to have a 2x again, if someone could silence it!!!
    XTR is 1x11, 2x11 or 3x11. It is manual shifting or electronic. Expensive of course.

    XT is coming out with all these 11 speed options. Probably in month. No electronic yet for a year or so. Pricing looks awesome!!!
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  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho View Post
    I went to a clutch rr der yesterday on my 1x9. I am enjoying the silence, and am going to lose 56 grams off my gut to make up for the added rr der weight.
    Do you have a narrow/side front chainring?

    fc
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  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I think so. You'll need a longer a longer chain and check what range of gears the derailleur can handle.

    Also, need to get rid of the narrow/wide chainring since those cannot shift.

    But would love to hear about the experience.

    fc
    The other interesting thing is with the 42 in the back you could go with a larger than typical granny. That would keep the drivetrain tension down and should help with chain life.

    I wonder if you'd have der rub problems....maybe just with the smaller frame sizes due to the shorter stays.

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    My next thread will be called, "Di2 - I think I'm over it"
    fixed it for you

    Posted minutes after killing your $500 derailleur on some rocks

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    The other interesting thing is with the 42 in the back you could go with a larger than typical granny. That would keep the drivetrain tension down and should help with chain life.

    I wonder if you'd have der rub problems....maybe just with the smaller frame sizes due to the shorter stays.
    For sure!! And the curse of 2x10 is that massive gap between front and rear chainring. 22/36 just sucks for shifting and pedaling feel. The new 2x11 systems have a 10-tooth jump instead of 14. 24/34 or 26/36 works much better for shifting, pedaling, chain length, slap, etc.
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  11. #411
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    just finished a 2x10 xt build on a new Ibis HD3, and personally I'm digging it.

    I ride the 32T chainring for most everything. With the extra anti-squat on the 24T chainring, it's kind of like a climb switch. Plus I can climb in smaller rear gears and save the aluminum granny from premature wear.

    Plus I'm old and slow and spinning up long non-tech climbs is better for me.

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    fixed it for you

    Posted minutes after killing your $500 derailleur on some rocks
    $600+ but whose counting.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    For sure!! And the curse of 2x10 is that massive gap between front and rear chainring. 22/36 just sucks for shifting and pedaling feel.
    That's why we had triples.

    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    The new 2x11 systems have a 10-tooth jump instead of 14. 24/34 or 26/36 works much better for shifting, pedaling, chain length, slap, etc.
    2x11 only has a 10-tooth jump? Wouldn't it have even more overlap than 2x10 then?

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    $600+ but whose counting.
    you will be once you start killing them

    Buy 5 and get one free here
    Shimano XTR Di2 M9050 11 Speed Rear Mech | Chain Reaction Cycles

  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    That's why we had triples.


    2x11 only has a 10-tooth jump? Wouldn't it have even more overlap than 2x10 then?
    Triples still exist today for Europe. :I They love them.

    Overlap goes with the territory. What only matters is range and riding performance.
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  16. #416
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    More likely to ride to their ride than in the US, I bet.

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Do you have a narrow/side front chainring?

    fc
    Yessir, love those things. Have 3 on each bike and working on a 4th for the cx.

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Triples still exist today for Europe. :I They love them.

    Overlap goes with the territory. What only matters is range and riding performance.
    Like true wheels vs. tensioned wheels, the redundant gear question is a hang-over from roadieville.

    If you start paying attention to how you shift or how rider's around you are shifting, the single shift to fine tune cadence is pretty rare on a MTB. More often than not people are executing double or triple clicks to make major changes in gearing. Most of us are not Goldilocks about cadence like you need to be on the road.

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho View Post
    Yessir, love those things. Have 3 on each bike and working on a 4th for the cx.
    Awesome. That is finest bang/buck product in history. One can read about it but it takes a few rides to understand its glory.

    The only oddity here is having three on each bike...
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  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    Is it possible to just throw a double crank and front der on a 1x11 and end up with a 2x11?
    In case of SRAM, no you can't. The X-HORIZON cage requires the chain length to only change with gears in the back. This means the upper pulley will always be at the same distance to the cassette no matter which gear you are in. If you now shift to a smaller ring, the pulley might hit the cassette, or is too far away on the big ring.

    If you want 2x11 with SRAM, you need to buy the specific version of the GX rear derailler, they have one for 1x11 and one for 2x11 (which has no X-HORIZON).

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Awesome. That is finest bang/buck product in history. One can read about it but it takes a few rides to understand its glory.

    The only oddity here is having three on each bike...
    I'm an enigma wrapped in a burrito, yo!

  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by erisch View Post
    In case of SRAM, no you can't. The X-HORIZON cage requires the chain length to only change with gears in the back. This means the upper pulley will always be at the same distance to the cassette no matter which gear you are in. If you now shift to a smaller ring, the pulley might hit the cassette, or is too far away on the big ring.


    If you want 2x11 with SRAM, you need to buy the specific version of the GX rear derailler, they have one for 1x11 and one for 2x11 (which has no X-HORIZON).
    Really!?

    I planned on keeping my n/w ring with the manual shift granny in place when I eventually went to an 11 speed out back. Another reason to stay with Shimano.

  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    What was it like a year ago or more that 1x11 sort of took over? I sure was sold. Less bar/bike clutter, lighter, quieter...all good. Now that I have some miles under my belt with this trend, I gotta say, I miss my 2x10.

    Maybe I am getting older or what not but seems like I am always looking for that one more gear that is never there with a 1x11 (I'm running a 30 up front). On the uphill, my thumb constantly pushes a lever that has hit a wall as my legs scream for just a little mercy. On the downhill, I am always looking for that little extra torque that is all but gone past 25mph. The only solution I see is to sacrifice an uphill gear for a more DH speed or visa versa.

    Anyone else out there feel the same? That Di2 is looking like a sweet solution.
    Over it...WTF??? I haven't even tried it yet

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Over it...WTF??? I haven't even tried it yet
    You late to 1x and to this thread yo.
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  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    $600+ but whose counting.
    You guys are quoting the higher price dealers. Look at Evans. RD is currently $416 (I paid $397), with no tax, free international shipping. I got it in a week or so.

    I might buy a spare RD in the rare case of an accident, since I suspect shops don't regularly carry it. But I've only lost a couple RDs in decades of riding, and the Di2 RD looks tougher than others.

    [EDIT: In this previous post quoting a Bike Magazine review of Di2: The rear derailleur had no problem shrugging off a couple impacts hard enough to scratch it up and bend the hanger. If you were to put the Di2 and mechanical derailleurs in a ring together, the Di2 would win every time. It’s far more robust and has less slop than its cabled counterpart. ]

    The overall added cost of Di2 might only be ~$1K over a mechanical system, if you compare XTR/Di2 to XT/mechanical. Or less if you start with XTR anyway. See my previous post on my costs.
    Last edited by BigLarry; 08-06-2015 at 12:52 PM.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  26. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtJunky View Post
    I think shimano offers 1x, 2x and even 3x (who knows why...) with 11 in back.

    Personally, I'd love to have a 2x again, if someone could silence it!!!
    I have Shimano's newest 3x11 XTR system (M9000 series). I also have Di2 electronics that effectively turns it into a 1x15 range with a single right hand shifter synchronously controlling both front and rear derailleurs by computers.

    Each additional chain ring (with 10 tooth difference) effectively adds two rear gears of additional range to the 11-speed cassette. And a 3X crank (or "chain set") is only $20 more than a 2X. So there's value in the third chain ring without much down side.

    Not sure what noise you're hearing with a 2X? Besides shifting much faster, the Di2 automatically tweaks the front derailleur as needed to prevent chain rub over the wide range of 11-speed gears. The chain also has a higher tension with use of the Di2, with less chain rattle and less chance of dropped chains.

    I really love the extra range of the 3x11 (effectively 1x15 with Di2). For example, today I used the lowest gear to climb 1000' up the back side of El Sombroso in Sierra Azul with >18% grades. First time I was able to do that, and without over stressing (HR<140), so I was able to keep fresh and go full speed at the end of the 27 mile 3700' ride. I was glad to have the upper end of the gearing when riding the city roads back around home, going 18-22 MPH -only possible with the other high end of the 3x11 gearing.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  27. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Really!?

    I planned on keeping my n/w ring with the manual shift granny in place when I eventually went to an 11 speed out back. Another reason to stay with Shimano.
    Just look at the shape of the cage, the pulley is much further away from the cage pivot than on a non-1x derailleur. But that mechanism is one of the reason why I would want a SRAM 1x derailleur.

  28. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    The overall added cost of Di2 might only be ~$1K over a mechanical system, if you compare XTR/Di2 to XT/mechanical. Or less if you start with XTR anyway. See my previous post on my costs.
    I've been accused of being yuppie scum before and yet this still seems like a massive waste of money to me. To each his own but I will stick with mechanical forever unless electronic starts to cost LESS and/or completely takes over the market.

  29. #429
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    I imagine having to stop and reboot my derailleur.

    I suppose if the battery runs down you have a single speed in whatever speed you are in.

  30. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    I imagine having to stop and reboot my derailleur.

    I suppose if the battery runs down you have a single speed in whatever speed you are in.
    I think one is able to manually switch gears on a dead dérailleur.

  31. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    I imagine having to stop and reboot my derailleur.

    I suppose if the battery runs down you have a single speed in whatever speed you are in.
    Yea, you reboot with a three finger salute on the alt break lever, shift control, and delete button on the display. Shimano learned from MS!

    In reality, Di2 has been proven by usage for over 5 years now on road bikes. It works so well that it was used by racers in the Tour de France. Then it had two years of hard testing in MTB riding with even stronger, more mud-proof elements, also used by MTB racers and others. So far, it's be highly reliable for me. Possibly more so than the mechanics. (And it does have a simple reset button, but it's more to reset after it self-protects from a hard impact.)

    The battery lasts months, even with me riding every day. And it only takes a couple hours to charge. When it gets lower than 5%, it only controls the rear derailleur for the last ~150 miles. It allows you one-time shift of the FD to the middle ring (for a triple) or small ring (for a double). In my case it just becomes a simple 1x11 with the 30t front middle ring, which people say they prefer anyway.

    But frankly, you've got to be a total idiot to let it discharge that much. There's a battery indicator on the shift display, just for one. If you're that person, you're probably not biking anyway as you're stuck on the side of the road with your car out of gas. And your bike tires are probably flat too.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  32. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I think one is able to manually switch gears on a dead dérailleur.
    I read in a review of the Di2 that in case of power failure, a manual change of gears was possible using a hex wrench. But I haven't found that procedure in any of the user or dealer manuals yet. Could be they were mistaken, or I haven't found it yet.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  33. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopamine View Post
    I've been accused of being yuppie scum before and yet this still seems like a massive waste of money to me. To each his own but I will stick with mechanical forever unless electronic starts to cost LESS and/or completely takes over the market.
    The Di2 has lots of advantages, and no disadvantage other than cost, which will come down over time. I gave my reasons before on this post and more detailed on this post. However, the summary is:

    1. The XTR 3x11 allows great range and lots of versatility to the gearing.
    2. The Di2 electronics makes the XTR 3x11 work quietly with simplicity, reliability, and speed.


    I tend to have only one All Mountain bike for all my riding. Simpler for me. To the extent the XTR 3x11 allows sufficient versatility to keep me to one bike, it could actually save the money of a second bike. I tend to be happy with just having one great bike for a long time. Same tendency keeps me married for nearly 30 years now.

    However, I understand both sides. Due to cost and effort of bike transport, I just bought a second bike in CT for the couple weeks a month I spend there. (It's a Giant Trance - my east coast mistress). It only has 2x10 gearing, but it works great for me on the less hilly and more technical trails there. I use the big chain ring on the road getting to the trail, and the small chain ring on the trails.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by erisch View Post
    In case of SRAM, no you can't. The X-HORIZON cage requires the chain length to only change with gears in the back. This means the upper pulley will always be at the same distance to the cassette no matter which gear you are in. If you now shift to a smaller ring, the pulley might hit the cassette, or is too far away on the big ring.

    If you want 2x11 with SRAM, you need to buy the specific version of the GX rear derailler, they have one for 1x11 and one for 2x11 (which has no X-HORIZON).
    Just a note that the same thing applies if you have a Shimano RD with a OneUp Rad/Radr cage. The same issue happens - since the upper pulley is offset, it gets closer to the cassette as the cage moves back. So if you have it set so that in big/big you have just the right upper pulley clearance, now if you drop to a smaller ring in front the RD cage will move back, and the upper pulley will jam into the cassette. If you set it up to work with the small ring, then the pulley will be further away from the cassette when in the big ring, resulting in worse shifting.

    If you have a Rad cage, chances are it's because you did a 1x10 wide range conversion. But you might have gotten an idea from this thread - "dang, it would be nice to stick that bail-out granny on that empty spot on the crank and finger-shift to it if I need to"... won't work (at least not w/o making shifting worse overall) because of the above.

  35. #435
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    I really like being able to go up or down by dumping or jumping on the fd. I'm staying 2x10.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

  36. #436
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    Ok, one ride on the Shimano XT and it is pretty darn impressive. It shifts just like XTR. The brakes are incredible as they're better than XTR. They're more powerful than the previous XT but they have good modulation.

    Front shifting is great with the stiff direct mount and much better side pull cable. The 10-tooth difference between the 26 and the 36t front rings is an easy shift so it upshifts much better and the jump between gears is not so huge.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1x11...I'm over it for hills-img_4820.jpg  

    1x11...I'm over it for hills-img_4831.jpg  

    1x11...I'm over it for hills-img_4832.jpg  

    1x11...I'm over it for hills-img_4833.jpg  

    1x11...I'm over it for hills-img_4835.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by j35u5fr34k View Post
    I really like being able to go up or down by dumping or jumping on the fd. I'm staying 2x10.
    ..
    Fully agree. Furthermore
    + like to get up out of the saddle every now and then on longer fireroad climbs - the 2x10 split on the front gears perfectly fits for that
    + the 2x10 chains are still more dirt resistent. Since trails are extremely dusty these days in California - the wider chain with less depth in the teeth is obviously more tolerant to dust

    Cheers
    B

  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    That is the stance they're taking for positioning those drivetrains. All my reports so far though is that the 2x works with 42. It's the same rear der.
    Curious to know if you've heard more since on the 11-42T working on 2x setup. Was looking over the new SC 5010 and Bronson speced with XT m8000 drivetrain and saw that they went with the "approved" 11-40t matching it with a RaceFace 24-34. I imagine they just could not outright defy the manufacturer!

  39. #439
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    I want to go 1x10....

    I have a 3x9 and never leave the 32T middle anyways. so basically I ride a really clunky 1x9 with a bunch of stuff that are just extra bits attached to bike.

    Going to a 1x10 gives me a 40t cog (11-40)
    Going to 32 Oval gives me climbing edge.
    and then dropping the myth that longer cranks are better, and going back to a 170.
    I get more efficient RPM for that 32x11 gear.

    I see 1x10 as a very effective, inexpensive viable solution to a hardtail. Not as simple as a SS, but very close & with the luxury of gears.

  40. #440
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    So this is what I've been riding... 2x11 Shimano XT

    26/38 in front
    11-40 rear.

    It has been pretty darn awesome. You just stay in the same front ring most of the ride and then you bail to the other chainring when needed.

    Last week, I put an 11-42 Shimano XT 11 speed rear cassette and it has been awesome. No problem for that derailleur to hit that 42 with ease.

    This week, I put a 10-42 SRAM X1 cassette and it's been good as well. Yes, it works. Tuning is a touch more sensitive but it works.

    So many gears but still really simple and seamless to use.

    fc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1x11...I'm over it for hills-img_6459.jpg  

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  41. #441
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    Thanks Francis! I will conclude this thread by saying 1x11 is officially dead. Stupid and dead. 2x11 is the new standard.

    Good day sirs. I SAID GOOD DAY!
    I'm not sure how this works.

  42. #442
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    Nah 1x10 all the way!!! No where near dead, best thing since sliced bread (now that we have 11-40 and 11-42 cassettes)

  43. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Nah 1x10 all the way!!! No where near dead, best thing since sliced bread (now that we have 11-40 and 11-42 cassettes)
    Sorry, my thread. I am king here and my word is final. And to quote FROM the internet: "1x11 is officially dead. Stupid and dead. 2x11 is the new standard." Therefore it is true.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  44. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Sorry, my thread. I am king here and my word is final. And to quote FROM the internet: "1x11 is officially dead. Stupid and dead. 2x11 is the new standard." Therefore it is true.
    Actually, you're word is third from final. ;-)

    1x10 and 1x11 rules. Especially with a xD cassette so you can get the 10T.
    Or, in Dec/Jan, you can get this, and get a 9-40 or 9-42T cass. Yum.
    Name:  FW1TPA-100-450x405.jpg
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    Who da hell rides a 38T in front?!! Is that a typo?

    I was reading about Jared's race Yeti. Even he only rides a 34 or 36T.
    Pinkbike's EWS Pro Rides - Jared Graves and his Yeti SB5C - Pinkbike

    The only people i know that ride 2x11 are weak old people like Ned O. and some other 65+ seniors... :P

  45. #445
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    I roll this 2x11 set up on my Capra...huge mongous fan and glad I stole from the kid's college fund to obtain:

    Down and Dirty with Shimano XTR Di2 | BIKE Magazine
    I'm not sure how this works.

  46. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    I tried to go back to riding a 2x10 setup after riding a 1x11, thinking the extra gears in the back would help.

    Nope, hated it, felt slower with the 36/24 and 11-36. That lasted one ride. With the newer suspension designs, I'm going to HTFU and get stronger. I really like the first season I rode on the 30T front and 11-40 in the back.
    Why do you need to get stronger? Why is it bad if you felt slower on 2x10.

    The point of this thread is there is choice in very good drivetrains now and you do not need to change who you are or where you ride to fit what's 'hot' these days.

    You look like a great fit for 2x11. And get the Di2 if you hate the left shifter so you'll have that choice.
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  47. #447
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    For the record, I'm a 1x11 rider. I'm only 140 lbs and all these bikes I use are 25 pounders. And my climbs are not that steep and long.

    Point of this is there is choice among really killer drivetrains now.
    IPA will save America

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    so 2 thousand and late. 1x13 on 26.75 hoops!

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Thanks Francis! I will conclude this thread by saying 1x11 is officially dead. Stupid and dead. 2x11 is the new standard.

    Good day sirs. I SAID GOOD DAY!
    1x11 is dead.
    I'm waiting on 1x15 so I can have less of jump shifting
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  50. #450
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    I posit that Di2 really isn't a 2x or 3x system, in the context of the discussion here.

    Of course it is physically a 2x or 3x, but the context might be more user interaction.

    A Di2 system to me is more like 1x14. The test ride i had on one was fabulous. Nothing to complain about. Just click up/down, never have to deal with ft shift and rear shift, etc.

    I don't care how many how many rings i have up front. I care about complexity, range, weight, $$$, replacement $, wear, etc.

    I've chosen 1x back in 2006. It wasn't all gravy, but strength+26" wheels+34x11x27 cassette was all i needed.
    Now, 30x 11x36 + altitude + 27.5" = struggle on the long steep climbs.

    With a 30T front, and 11T rear on 27.5, i do run out of gears <1% situations that i ride. I does happen, but is never on my mind.

    A 10x40 or 10x42 or this 9x40 or 42 would solve any range issue. I could even move to a 28T front and use a 9x40 rear.

  51. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho View Post

    1x10 and 1x11 rules. Especially with a xD cassette so you can get the 10T.
    Or, in Dec/Jan, you can get this, and get a 9-40 or 9-42T cass. Yum.
    Name:  FW1TPA-100-450x405.jpg
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    That cassette looks pretty awesome. I could go 28T up front and have more low end and high end than my 30T with 11-42 cassette. Sold...

  52. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    The point of this thread is there is choice in very good drivetrains now and you do not need to change who you are or where you ride to fit what's 'hot' these days.
    apparently 1x11 was his choice.....

    And apparently 1x11 vs 2x10 is the 'hottest' choice for his riding.

    As far as getting stronger, That is all of us!

    You all need to understand that 1x isn't just a fad for everyone Blanket statements and putting people in boxes is dumb. 1x is the 'hot' setup for some people. Not 'hot' because everyone else is doing it. 2x is the hot setup for others, But how many of them are doing it because it is your version of 'hot' ?

    For me, I've weighed the options, I've weighed the choices.

    My choice out of everything available 1x11, 2x10, di2, 3x9.... yadda blah blah. My choise, Is a 1x10..... 32t Oval with an 11-36.

    I've looked at 40t and 42t cassette conversion. I looked at Sunrace 10 speed cassettes. I've looked at going 1x11. I don't need the 40t or 42t granny gear. I actually don't need the 10 s! However going to a N/W chainring means I need a new chain. A new chain means I should also throw on a new cassette, but buying a 9 speed cassette is.... why wtf ?!?!?

    If I go 1x10 over just deleteing to a 1x9. I can get a Saint shifter ($49) and XT M786 Shadow+ ($62) extra cost.. yet the advantages are night and day over the old Deore RD and alivo shifter!

    If I don't need the 40t or 42t cog, I don't need a double or triple either.

    what is currently 'hot' is irrelevant! What I do need is bullet proof, issue free multi release shifting. Multi release totally takes half of the 2x argument and throws it in the trash bin.

    Instant shift and multi release. On a 1x Oval chainring.... Oh yes!!!! Keep the 29er, Gaining my acceleration in shifting and oval crank rather than dropping to a 27.5 Oh yes!!

    Each to his Own. I don't know your choice in jerseys, don't knock our choice in gearing.


    Edit: To keep the cyclocross guys happy.... we are now seeing a 39t cog conversion. Because 40t and 42t are problematic. Oh Look another choice!!!!!! Hurry Bash them!!!! No don't bash them for being able to make a choice.

  53. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho View Post
    Actually, you're word is third from final. ;-)

    1x10 and 1x11 rules. Especially with a xD cassette so you can get the 10T.
    Or, in Dec/Jan, you can get this, and get a 9-40 or 9-42T cass. Yum.
    Name:  FW1TPA-100-450x405.jpg
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    Who da hell rides a 38T in front?!! Is that a typo?

    I was reading about Jared's race Yeti. Even he only rides a 34 or 36T.
    Pinkbike's EWS Pro Rides - Jared Graves and his Yeti SB5C - Pinkbike

    The only people i know that ride 2x11 are weak old people like Ned O. and some other 65+ seniors... :P
    That's 9-44. I should have one of those soon. Interbike 2015: e*thirteen EXP cassette with 9-44 teeth - Mtbr.com


    For Jared Graves, They can only fit 36 tooth for all those 1x11 frames since the ring is so close to the frame. Also they have to climb with that ring too. All day.

    Having a 28t or 30t front ring is decent for climbing. But it does suck to spin on in level or downhill.

    Ann-Caro Chausson is smart. She has a 34 t front ring 1x11. Then she has a hand shift cheater ring granny.
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  54. #454
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    So I have a cool story about my bike with 2x11 HD3. 26/38 front and 9-42 rear.

    I rode a very cool singletrack loop in Santa Cruz with lots of rolly stuff, fast descents and steep, short climbs. I did about a 2 hour ride and at the end of the ride, I noticed I didn't use the front shifter. I was just on the big ring the whole ride.

    Next day, I took my son out there. He is slower than me (on the climbs) but dialed on the descents. We rode the exact same loop. I asked him how he liked the drivetrain and he said he loved it. He never used the front shifter. He was on the small ring all day.

    Bike has a little bigger sweet spot now.
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  55. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Ann-Caro Chausson is smart. She has a 34 t front ring 1x11. Then she has a hand shift cheater ring granny.
    So that is basically saying that for those of us that like near/in big mountains the 1x11 just doesn't work. Normal riders should stick with 2x11. I'm on 3x10 still but would try 2x11 if I were to change it out..

  56. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNormsk View Post
    So that is basically saying that for those of us that like near/in big mountains the 1x11 just doesn't work.
    Not necessarily. What we are saying and have clearly agreed upon is that 1x11 is dumb and stupid and dead and doesn't work anywhere really. Anyone who says otherwise is a poser trying to look cool.

    To everyone else, what part of (in loud caps) I SAID GOOD DAY did you not understand?
    I'm not sure how this works.

  57. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNormsk View Post
    So that is basically saying that for those of us that like near/in big mountains the 1x11 just doesn't work. Normal riders should stick with 2x11. I'm on 3x10 still but would try 2x11 if I were to change it out..
    Many in big mountains are very ok with 1x11. Ann Caro and some others have a bailout gear in case it's a big day in the EWS and she wants to be fresh for the descent.

    What we're saying is there's two good options here. And Squashyo is one good looking sonofagun.
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  58. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    What we're saying is there's two good options here. And Squashyo is one good looking sonofagun.
    He made a couple good points there.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  59. #459
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    I'm still waiting for Rohloff to come out with an XD driver body so I can mount my 10-42 cassette to a 14 spd internal gear hub.

  60. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by erisch View Post
    I'm still waiting for Rohloff to come out with an XD driver body so I can mount my 10-42 cassette to a 14 spd internal gear hub.
    Shit, is that possible?

  61. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    To everyone else, what part of (in loud caps) I SAID GOOD DAY did you not understand?
    You sir, are a balloon-juice lowerer, and an idle and gormless dawdler.

    My God, man! Did you not read what the man said? "If it says Shimano, it is the stamp of glorious approval. However, if you have just one ring, your bad-assery is beyond repute."

    Can't one's chocolate be thrust into a random stranger's peanut butter? Shimano 1x10! Delicious!!!

    P

  62. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Shit, is that possible?
    Of course it is. I'm planning to run this in conjunction with a triple crank connected to a Pinion gearbox in the frame. Thank god for 800mm bars.

  63. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Ann Caro and some others have a bailout gear in case it's a big day in the EWS and she wants to be fresh for the descent.
    But isn't that most people? I don't want to kill myself on the climb so I'm too beat for the descent....

    But I agree it is good to have options, even if you are just a poser pushing you 1x11 up a hill because it weren't geared correct.

  64. #464
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    ^^ I'm about as average as they come on the climbs and when I go up to Tahoe my 1X10 is good for everything, but I did add a 42 gear about a year ago (about to change to 40).

    Sincerely,
    Proud Poseur
    Last edited by dirtvert; 11-06-2015 at 06:05 PM.
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  65. #465
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    1x11...I think I'm over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    ^^ I'm about as average as they come on the climbs and when I go up to Tahoe my 1X10 is good for everything, but I did add a 42 gear about a year ago (about to change to 40).

    Sincerely,
    Proud Poseur
    What if you were 50 lbs heavier and ride once a week?
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  66. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Thanks Francis! I will conclude this thread by saying 1x11 is officially dead. Stupid and dead. 2x11 is the new standard.

    Good day sirs. I SAID GOOD DAY!
    Okay, time to invoke Godwin's law. 1X11 was originally designed by Nazis. 2X11 is the choice for God fearing Americans!
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  67. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by erisch View Post
    Of course it is. I'm planning to run this in conjunction with a triple crank connected to a Pinion gearbox in the frame. Thank god for 800mm bars.
    A 7,560 speed?

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  69. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    A 7,560 speed?
    It's all about cadence
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  70. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    So what kind of front ring do you run with that? I question how smoothly it might shift... but sounds cool in theory.

  71. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzaro View Post
    It's all about cadence
    It's all about performance
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  72. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    What if you were 50 lbs heavier and ride once a week?
    I think you have me confused with Rensho!



    My point was that you don't have to be elite to use 1X. But, really, it's whatever melts your butter. For me, I like the simplicity.
    Last edited by dirtvert; 11-09-2015 at 08:46 AM.
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  73. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT79 View Post
    So what kind of front ring do you run with that? I question how smoothly it might shift... but sounds cool in theory.
    A narrow/wide ring with a clutch rear derailer. That will keep the chain on.

  74. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    What if you were 50 lbs heavier and ride once a week?
    That would have been me last year. I was back up around 239 and riding about once a week. For most of 2014 I was on 1x9 and the bump to a 40 tooth ring in the back felt like I was slacking.

    Since then I've dropped back to about 190, and I still love 1x10/ 1x11. Just less nonsense to deal with on the bike.

  75. #475
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    I still like my SRAM 1 x 11. I don't miss the front derailleur at all. I currently use a 30T ring. When I've been in better form I've used up to a 34T.
    I noticed I cannot ride as slow as my friends on 2x or 3x drivetrains.
    I'm thinking of the One-up 44T cog.
    I'm switching from the SRAM XX1 crank to a new XTR. I've too much trouble w/ the SRAM BB and crank making clicks.

  76. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvaliensi View Post
    I still like my SRAM 1 x 11. I don't miss the front derailleur at all. I currently use a 30T ring. When I've been in better form I've used up to a 34T.
    I noticed I cannot ride as slow as my friends on 2x or 3x drivetrains.
    I'm thinking of the One-up 44T cog.
    I'm switching from the SRAM XX1 crank to a new XTR. I've too much trouble w/ the SRAM BB and crank making clicks.
    There are many good points here but if you read through the entire thread (all 488 comments) you will have discovered that 1x11 has been officially deemed useless and dumb. Don't shoot the messenger, I am just relaying the information.

    If we get to 500 posts, I would like to trade my 5 pairs of socks for some extra powerful batteries for my Fleshlight please. Maybe one powerful enough to run this bad boy? (Welcome to the Norcal Forum jvaliensi)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1x11...I'm over it for hills-screen-shot-2015-11-17-4.34.09-pm.png  

    I'm not sure how this works.

  77. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    That would have been me last year. I was back up around 239 and riding about once a week. For most of 2014 I was on 1x9 and the bump to a 40 tooth ring in the back felt like I was slacking.

    Since then I've dropped back to about 190, and I still love 1x10/ 1x11. Just less nonsense to deal with on the bike.
    Well, welcome back back!
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  78. #478
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    I switched to 1x11 6 months ago. I wanted to get rid of the weakest component on my bike (FD) and stop worrying about cross-chaining while saving a wee bit of weight. I started with a 32 up front 42 out back, have since switched to a 30-42 and now a 30-40. I ride 3 times a week, sometimes 1x, sometimes 2x. I am not superhuman, but 1x11 has been worth it for me because I simply haven't noticed the missing gear ratios since the first 3 weeks and I haven't had to adjust a FD or hit my front shifter at all. Yay.

    All of that said, I'm convinced that 2x is here to stay -- it's just that now we have 2 awesome options. Double yay.
    "So you think it's the hat?... A lot of people hate this hat. It angers a lot of people, just the sight of it." - Uncle Buck

  79. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    There are many good points here but if you read through the entire thread (all 488 comments) you will have discovered...........
    that many LOVE their 1x... & many love their 2x but none have proven that one of the two is any better than the other, for anyone other than themselves.


    btw I was reading a Ford forum and I discovered Chevy sucks. Then I was reading a Dodge forum and Ford sucks. I bet If I read a Chevy forum I'll discover that Dodge sucks also.

    My conclusion, this threads topic title alone should have a lot more 1x haters than it does. Seeing that it isn't working out that way, 1x must not be dumb and useless as you want it to be.

  80. #480
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    Bikes set up as 1x are more common than ever. What's going the way of the dodo is 3x. Seems like they went out of style as fast as 26 inch wheels. Only a few holdouts hanging on to that extra/ redundant ring.

    Pretty soon trying to find bits for 3x bikes is going to be like Finch Platte chasing down Sony Mini-Discs ("it's the wave of the future I tell ya!").

    Edit: I'm sure someone already pointed this out on page 3... too lazy to check.

  81. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclinglymie View Post
    that many LOVE their 1x... & many love their 2x but none have proven that one of the two is any better than the other, for anyone other than themselves.


    btw I was reading a Ford forum and I discovered Chevy sucks. Then I was reading a Dodge forum and Ford sucks. I bet If I read a Chevy forum I'll discover that Dodge sucks also.

    My conclusion, this threads topic title alone should have a lot more 1x haters than it does. Seeing that it isn't working out that way, 1x must not be dumb and useless as you want it to be.
    Damn you and your voodoo logic.

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    I'm not sure how this works.

  82. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    Bikes set up as 1x are more common than ever. What's going the way of the dodo is 3x. Seems like they went out of style as fast as 26 inch wheels. Only a few holdouts hanging on to that extra/ redundant ring.

    Pretty soon trying to find bits for 3x bikes is going to be like Finch Platte chasing down Sony Mini-Discs ("it's the wave of the future I tell ya!").

    Edit: I'm sure someone already pointed this out on page 3... too lazy to check.
    Big Larry wants a word with you. And since he outweighs you now, I suggest you choose your words wisely.
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  83. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    If we get to 500 posts, I would like to trade my 5 pairs of socks for some extra powerful batteries for my Fleshlight please.

    I was trying to figure out what a fleshlight was (don't google it btw!!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    I wasn't dissing anyone with this comment. I was just pointing out that I am extremely talented and awesome. Ask my mom.
    Now a quote from page one of this topic, that explains everything, and also your need for a fleshlight. Disgusting really.

  84. #484
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    I'd love to see someone pushing 40x11 on the trail for more than a few seconds and 22x44 is slower than walking up the hill.

    We need to fund a double blind test to see if people really notice how many rings they have on the front of their bikes. My bet is most people with a well chosen front ring wouldn't even notice the missing ranges on the extreme ends. Maybe a Di2 setup where people don't thin about what's going on down there as much.

  85. #485
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    I'm going to try 1x10 on my Norco Range. To save costs I'm going to try it with the stock 11-36 rear cassette and do a 30T front ring. The stock front rings are 22 & 36 and the jump from the big ring to the small one is too much for my liking and requires me to find a different rear cog to be in. I don't feel the need to blast down hills as fast as possible and am content to let gravity and line choice do the work for the most part.

  86. #486
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    1x11

    I made the switch to 1x11 cuz the new complete bike made me. Wouldn't ever go back to a front derailleur. I did bump up the front ring to 36 ( max that the e*thirteen guide would take) because the bike was a little too Climby. Now it's fast and climbs everything my legs can. Love it.

  87. #487
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    500 b!tches.

    On a serious note, I have a brand new 1x11 SRAM XO crank in my garage collecting dust. Anyone wanna buy it cheap? Seriously.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  88. #488
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    Bb30 or gxp? How much?

  89. #489
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    They came on my new YT Capra Pro. Since I swapped them out for Di2, they are unused but not in box. They are carbon and come with PF30 BB, 32t cog...and I'll even throw in an e*Thirteen xcx+36 chain guide. I believe the whole package would cost somewhere around $300+...$150. BAM!
    I'm not sure how this works.

  90. #490
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    Doh. I "need" a gxp crank.
    Good deal though.

  91. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-wal View Post
    Doh. I "need" a gxp crank.
    Good deal though.
    I am sure you can get it to fit with some filing and a rubber head mallet (don't use a regular hammer as that could **** up your bike).
    I'm not sure how this works.

  92. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwjnky View Post
    I'm going to try 1x10 on my Norco Range. To save costs I'm going to try it with the stock 11-36 rear cassette and do a 30T front ring. The stock front rings are 22 & 36 and the jump from the big ring to the small one is too much for my liking and requires me to find a different rear cog to be in. I don't feel the need to blast down hills as fast as possible and am content to let gravity and line choice do the work for the most part.
    Just a heads up XT771 11-36 is $50-55 ish and a guy just picked up a SunRace 11-42 (steel version of the large cog) for $58 from universe. I am not sure if there is a price difference for large cog being Al. and they seem to be hard to find.
    Anyways 4 versions 11-40 & 11-42 with Large cog being Al. and then also 11-40 & 11-42 large cog being steel.


    The only other catch is monkeying around with your RD.... to get it to shift Nice, with the large cogs. longer B screw, goat link etc....
    In my opinion... screw it I'll just use the 11-36 Or go to 1x11
    However for those with 10 speed setups and looking for a larger cog. There are inexpensive options.
    SunRace cassette , wide range

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwjnky View Post
    I'm going to try 1x10 on my Norco Range. To save costs I'm going to try it with the stock 11-36 rear cassette and do a 30T front ring. The stock front rings are 22 & 36 and the jump from the big ring to the small one is too much for my liking and requires me to find a different rear cog to be in. I don't feel the need to blast down hills as fast as possible and am content to let gravity and line choice do the work for the most part.
    This not a good setup if you want to climb decent hills with a Range. It rally limits the bike.

    One friend was pretty successful bit he used a 26 tooth race face direct mount front ring. It's at least a decent low gear.

    A better setup with a 30 tooth front is 11-40 Praxxis ring in the rear.
    IPA will save America

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    I have been in my triple middle 32t for months now and have a 11-34 9 speed on the back. Not going to convert it to a 32t oval / 11-36 10speed until spring. Because the RD packs with snow then freezes so basically I will jump smallest and middle in front for 2 speeds. All winter. Like a fast or slow... LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    This not a good setup if you want to climb decent hills with a Range. It rally limits the bike.

    One friend was pretty successful bit he used a 26 tooth race face direct mount front ring. It's at least a decent low gear.

    A better setup with a 30 tooth front is 11-40 Praxxis ring in the rear.
    I'm hopefully going to ride Auburn Saturday so I'll try and mentally keep track how much I needed to bail out to the 22t front ring and where I want to go setup wise. Just trying to shed some weight on a budget since x-mas is coming up. The 2016 version of my bike comes 1x10 with 11-42 rear and a 32T front ring so I may copy that for my bike. My friend has a 34T front ring I may pick up to use for gravity park days for more drivetrain options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwjnky View Post
    I'm hopefully going to ride Auburn Saturday so I'll try and mentally keep track how much I needed to bail out to the 22t front ring and where I want to go setup wise. Just trying to shed some weight on a budget since x-mas is coming up. The 2016 version of my bike comes 1x10 with 11-42 rear and a 32T front ring so I may copy that for my bike. My friend has a 34T front ring I may pick up to use for gravity park days for more drivetrain options.

    One thing you can do now is stop using your 22-tooth altogether. It takes about three months to develop the torque and the leg-strength needed to turn big gears like a singlespeeder. Not giving yourself an out will re-tool your body and technique. so when your 1x comes, you'll be dialed.
    IPA will save America

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    One thing you can do now is stop using your 22-tooth altogether. It takes about three months to develop the torque and the leg-strength needed to turn big gears like a singlespeeder. Not giving yourself an out will re-tool your body and technique. so when your 1x comes, you'll be dialed.
    This is sound advise. Your wisdom is really lighting up my life!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    One thing you can do now is stop using your 22-tooth altogether. It takes about three months to develop the torque and the leg-strength needed to turn big gears like a singlespeeder. Not giving yourself an out will re-tool your body and technique. so when your 1x comes, you'll be dialed.
    I've been on a 1x11 for a few months now, and yes the first few rides sucked, but I think a ton of it is psychologic because the smallest gear on a 1x11 isn't that much bigger than the smallest on a 3x10. The larger gears, it's a whole different story, but then again, when ur running 20-30psi, you're not really looking for time trial times on the ride home on pavement.

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    Does the Di2 stuff give you metrics? It would be really enlightening to be able to have a bunch of people ride bikes equipped to record actual gear ratios used over a few hundred miles of trails and see how big a range we really need. It's likely unique to each person. For that matter, it would be pretty epic to be able to ride a bike for a day and get back a specific recommendation based on your riding style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    Does the Di2 stuff give you metrics? It would be really enlightening to be able to have a bunch of people ride bikes equipped to record actual gear ratios used over a few hundred miles of trails and see how big a range we really need. It's likely unique to each person. For that matter, it would be pretty epic to be able to ride a bike for a day and get back a specific recommendation based on your riding style.
    Metrics, no.

    It's difficult data to collect and not that useful anyway. At the end of the day, people are creatures of habit. They make do and adapt to what they have.

    I think the most useful thing for riders to do is to see if they run out of gears a lot or if they are on their lowest gear at the bottom of the hill. That is a good time to consider a better range.

    Let the gear adapt to you and your terrain and not the other way around.

    Old 2x and 3x systems used to suck and that's why 1x exploded into the scene. At least now, the new 2x systems are good.
    IPA will save America

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