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  1. #301
    Rod
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    Either work on your climbing or buy additional gears.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    Wow didn't know that. Wonder if I should tell my wife.

    But don't I also have to be an endurance rider/racer with hundreds of shift to day in order to be worthy? Hmm. I don't race. But I do ride every day up to 4 hours, and hundreds of shifts/day. So maybe I qualify that way?
    You ride 4 hrs/day? Every day?! Sorry to break the news Larry, but you're definitely a badass endurance rider now. I hope you take at least one recovery day per week, though.


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  3. #303
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    More advantages for Di2

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post

    You ask a fair question. Let me explain what I value, even though it may not be the same for you.

    1. Wider Gearing Range
    ...
    2. Simpler Shifting
    ...
    3. Faster Shifts
    ...
    4. More Reliable
    ...
    Not a typical application, but I found a couple of other advantages for my almost 5 y/o :

    Here's the bike I built for him, so we can spend more time riding 'real' trails (Emmy McCrary-down, Sierra Morena, etc). (I'm not called the greatest dad ever for no reason.):
    1x11...I'm over it for hills-di2-ultegra.jpg

    He's been riding it for about 9 months now. 1x9. It's got an Ultegra (Road) RD with Remote Climbing shifter and a 'custom' 11-32 road cassette. (It's a mash-up of two different cassettes with 2 middle gears removed to create a 9sp. The short chainstays make the chain angles too extreme for the full 11sp cassette.)

    For my son, the advantages are:
    1) Easy shifting with the push-buttons. He's not quite strong enough for thumb or grip shifters yet. The XTR shifters are a step backwards in this department since they are as stiff as mechanical shifters.
    2) Tolerates shifting w/o pedaling. He can click-off a couple of shifts at standstill, then start pedaling. The shifter's brains will then execute the shifts.

    Expensive? Hell yeah, but that just means I don't get my HD3 for a couple more years. The time we get to spend riding is priceless for me and his mom.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    You ride 4 hrs/day? Every day?! Sorry to break the news Larry, but you're definitely a badass endurance rider now. I hope you take at least one recovery day per week, though.
    I said "up to", not 4 hours every day - just a couple times a week at that longer ride. My minimum is 40 minutes, usual is 1-1.5 hours - going very hard.

    My bike recovery day is usually a trip to the gym to work on other non-biking muscles as I lose weight.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by lixxfe View Post
    Not a typical application, but I found a couple of other advantages for my almost 5 y/o :

    Here's the bike I built for him, so we can spend more time riding 'real' trails (Emmy McCrary-down, Sierra Morena, etc). (I'm not called the greatest dad ever for no reason.):
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Di2 Ultegra.jpg 
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    He's been riding it for about 9 months now. 1x9. It's got an Ultegra (Road) RD with Remote Climbing shifter and a 'custom' 11-32 road cassette. (It's a mash-up of two different cassettes with 2 middle gears removed to create a 9sp. The short chainstays make the chain angles too extreme for the full 11sp cassette.)

    For my son, the advantages are:
    1) Easy shifting with the push-buttons. He's not quite strong enough for thumb or grip shifters yet. The XTR shifters are a step backwards in this department since they are as stiff as mechanical shifters.
    2) Tolerates shifting w/o pedaling. He can click-off a couple of shifts at standstill, then start pedaling. The shifter's brains will then execute the shifts.

    Expensive? Hell yeah, but that just means I don't get my HD3 for a couple more years. The time we get to spend riding is priceless for me and his mom.
    Thumbs up. Every kid should be on a 1x Narrow/Wide. So much simpler for them and lighter. Just get the front ring that they can power.

    One of the most irritating things on kids' bikes is dropped chains constantly when no front der.
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  6. #306
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    Any comment stating that some particular gear range is a must, and anything else is stupid, is silly. I think the statement about the 10t takes the cake.

    No. One does not need 10t to have a perfectly useful 1xN drivetrain.

  7. #307
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Thumbs up. Every kid should be on a 1x Narrow/Wide. So much simpler for them and lighter. Just get the front ring that they can power.

    One of the most irritating things on kids' bikes is dropped chains constantly when no front der.
    The most irritating thing on kids bikes is lack of economical short cranks with direct mount chainrings. Because most useful front gear is often around 28 or 30. And readily available short cranks are all of 5 arm variety, going down to 34t only.

    I wish Race face made cinch turbines - or cheaper ones - in 150mm at least.

  8. #308
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    I use an mrp chain guide (one that looks like a plastic fd) for my sons mt60. He moves up bike sizes next season so hell have a crank I can put a NW ring on.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Either work on your climbing or buy additional gears.
    That's the beauty of it. I get to work on my climbing or walk. Which I haven't yet!

  10. #310
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    I'm a roadie at heart and just said screw it on the MTB and went 1x at both ends (singlespeed)! Talk about simple and clean!
    Loved rolling up to the trailhead after a ride last week and hearing everyone prattling on about going 1x, and getting the Wolftooth "cog" and Goatlink. Someone asked what setup I was running, enjoyed getting to answer that question.

  11. #311
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    I have a beautiful barely used 2x10 race face next sl crankset for sale if anyone is tired of their 1x set ups.
    **Paid Spam**
    Race Face Next SL 2x10 crankset - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories
    Looking for a Medium Scott Scale frame, preferably a 2012 in 26.

  12. #312
    I dig trails!
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    24" wheeled kids bike.

    1x7, 30t Narrow Wide up front. (stock cranks)

    1 x whatever eliminates shifting confusion for novice riders and lets them focus on the trail in front of them.

    1x11...I'm over it for hills-finn-bike.jpg

    P

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    I said "up to", not 4 hours every day - just a couple times a week at that longer ride. My minimum is 40 minutes, usual is 1-1.5 hours - going very hard.

    My bike recovery day is usually a trip to the gym to work on other non-biking muscles as I lose weight.
    Niiice - (pardon the OT everyone) - still - that's really great Larry!

    Proving the point that if you have a bike setup that you really dig, you will ride more, and get fitter! To each his or her own.
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  14. #314
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    Still like my 3x10. With steep climbs and longish descents having a 22,32,42 up front with a 11-36 outback with 29er tires works for me. I can claw up in 22x32 or 22x36 for the really steep stuff and still have torque to push 25 mph comfortably on the downs (I spin out at about 35 mph). I would contemplate a 2x11 set up but never a 1x.

  15. #315
    7am Backcountry ;- )
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    Another 3x10 user here, lots of road work linking up trails and big enough cog to get some great speed without spinning out, along with plenty of hills to climb with the small cog. Just great all round range of gears, can't see me ever going single or double for a few grams.
    i can't ride for sh*t but i'm good at extreme pushing

  16. #316
    Rod
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNormsk View Post
    Still like my 3x10. With steep climbs and longish descents having a 22,32,42 up front with a 11-36 outback with 29er tires works for me. I can claw up in 22x32 or 22x36 for the really steep stuff and still have torque to push 25 mph comfortably on the downs (I spin out at about 35 mph). I would contemplate a 2x11 set up but never a 1x.
    Everyone is different, but if you're in 22/36, walking would be faster. I would just spin out in leaves. I'm glad it works for you though. I'm too impatient.

    I run a 1x9 and I can push 25 mph comfortably and I don't see why people are always talking about higher gears. Unless you're racing down a double track fire road then they're not needed. 25 mph on the road is plenty fast enough for me.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  17. #317
    Rod
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard25 View Post
    That's the beauty of it. I get to work on my climbing or walk. Which I haven't yet!
    Exactly! It forces you to improve. The same can be said of the SS.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  18. #318
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    LOTS of varying opinions in this thread! I'm considering going 1x11 with the new XT group coming out in a month or two. Considering going 30 or 32 tooth up front with an 11-42 in back.

    Can you folks give me some personalized advice on what the jump might be like from my current setup? I'm a 155 pound rider on a lightweight 650b hardtail, fit, long time rider. I currently run a 2x10 with 26x38 up front and an 11-34 cassette in back. I like this setup and use all the gears, but admittedly spend more time in the small ring than big.

    I'm probably better off just saving the coin obviously since I like my current setup (it's the 10-speed XT group). But the new group is tempting...
    Last edited by Dopamine; 07-20-2015 at 07:37 PM.

  19. #319
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    Another 3x10 holdout here. 11-36 rear, 24-32-42 front (Why did Marin spec the granny and the middle only 8 apart like that? a 22 would make more sense and I want to change it to that).

    I live in the mountains and ride to the trailheads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Exactly! It forces you to improve. The same can be said of the SS.
    Maybe it forces you to improve. Running too-high gears puts the hurt on my knees, big time. Always has.

    For my first year and a half of mountain biking, I really didn't get any stronger at all, because my knees were causing me so much downtime. The advice I was getting was the same as you are giving. It wasn't working for me. I was going to have to give up riding if the knee issues got any worse. It began to dawn on me that advice from expert riders may not always be applicable to those of us of lesser capabilities, and that proclamations that "nobody needs gears that low" are simply wrong.

    It's still a bit faster than walking, and much easier on the knees than walking if the gear is low enough.

  20. #320
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    I love my 1 by. I won't ever be switching back.
    The Truth will set you free.

    ....but it might offend you first!

  21. #321
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    Yeah, I agree 3x/availability of a wider gear range still has a place - it all depends if you are a spinner or a masher or a stander, how steep your trails are, how long your rides are, if you are optimizing for DH or UH, or it you want to blast through the road bits on bigger gears to get to the trails or make up time on a long XC race... it does not automatically mean that you are a weaker rider who needs a crutch. 1x will definitely make you go faster if you find that you don't actually need the lower gears for where you are riding, and you don't need the top end.

    I really do love the idea of the 1x for the simplicity, but I want it on my recreational, 6" travel DH-ish oriented bike, not the XC endurance 29'er.

    Another consideration: I tend wear out my cassettes really fast cuz I suck at checking my chain & I put in a decent amt of mileage. Replacing a 42 cassette at SRAM's current price point? Ow.
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  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Yeah, I agree 3x/availability of a wider gear range still has a place - it all depends if you are a spinner or a masher or a stander, how steep your trails are, how long your rides are, if you are optimizing for DH or UH, or it you want to blast through the road bits on bigger gears to get to the trails or make up time on a long XC race... it does not automatically mean that you are a weaker rider who needs a crutch. 1x will definitely make you go faster if you find that you don't actually need the lower gears for where you are riding, and you don't need the top end.

    I really do love the idea of the 1x for the simplicity, but I want it on my recreational, 6" travel DH-ish oriented bike, not the XC endurance 29'er.

    Another consideration: I tend wear out my cassettes really fast cuz I suck at checking my chain & I put in a decent amt of mileage. Replacing a 42 cassette at SRAM's current price point? Ow.
    At 100rpm, which is perfectly reasonable, a 30t x 10t, on a 29x2.1 tire, will have you going 24.7mph.

    Do you regularly go 25mph+ on the flats in an XC race?

    I mean, I'm a male, racing pro/open, and I know I don't.
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  23. #323
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    I love hearing from all of the 3 x users! Awesome. Look at you guys. Funny. I love it. You make me feel like a trend setter with my 2 x 10.

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    At 100rpm, which is perfectly reasonable, a 30t x 10t, on a 29x2.1 tire, will have you going 24.7mph.

    Do you regularly go 25mph+ on the flats in an XC race?

    I mean, I'm a male, racing pro/open, and I know I don't.
    No way man, but downhill on the road, certainly. Easily!
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  25. #325
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    The only time I go 25+ MPH are on the long downslopes with -2% to -7% grade. I will stand and mash a hard gear at 40-60 RPM to keep my speed 30+ MPH; forget spinning anything faster than 70 RPM at that speed. That's where a gear chainring bigger than 36 pays off, even if it's rarely used. I use it in 3 spots in an 8 mile loop, maybe 2.5 minutes total in a 45 min loop.

  26. #326
    Rod
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    1x11...I think I'm over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    Another 3x10 holdout here. 11-36 rear, 24-32-42 front (Why did Marin spec the granny and the middle only 8 apart like that? a 22 would make more sense and I want to change it to that).

    I live in the mountains and ride to the trailheads.



    Maybe it forces you to improve. Running too-high gears puts the hurt on my knees, big time. Always has.

    For my first year and a half of mountain biking, I really didn't get any stronger at all, because my knees were causing me so much downtime. The advice I was getting was the same as you are giving. It wasn't working for me. I was going to have to give up riding if the knee issues got any worse. It began to dawn on me that advice from expert riders may not always be applicable to those of us of lesser capabilities, and that proclamations that "nobody needs gears that low" are simply wrong.

    It's still a bit faster than walking, and much easier on the knees than walking if the gear is low enough.

    With any system, you can run your gearing too high and hurt your knees. Choosing the proper gear will help alleviate that pain on whatever bike you ride. If you stand and mash you can have knee and lower back pain.

    Where I ride, the gearing I quoted will not work. It is too steep, and covered in leaves, rocks, or wet. It would work great in Colorado, but I don't live there. We don't have long sustainable climbs.

    You are correct though, broad sweeping strokes don't work for everyone. There are always exceptions to the rule.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  27. #327
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    I miss the big gear for those moments when you are descending, hit a flat section and want to keep a wicked speed for the uphill coming up. In this case, I hate not having any gears left.

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  28. #328
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    This is another example of expert advice that may not really apply to more ordinary riders:

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    At 100rpm, which is perfectly reasonable, a 30t x 10t, on a 29x2.1 tire, will have you going 24.7mph.

    Do you regularly go 25mph+ on the flats in an XC race?

    I mean, I'm a male, racing pro/open, and I know I don't.
    To match my current low, that would be a 28 up front, not a 30. But I ride a 26er.
    Your calculations are for a 29er, so make that a 26 up front. Now what happens to my top speed? And if my spinning is more like 80 or 90 rpm instead of 100?

    I don't race at all.

  29. #329
    7am Backcountry ;- )
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Everyone is different, but if you're in 22/36, walking would be faster. I would just spin out in leaves. I'm glad it works for you though. I'm too impatient.

    I run a 1x9 and I can push 25 mph comfortably and I don't see why people are always talking about higher gears. Unless you're racing down a double track fire road then they're not needed. 25 mph on the road is plenty fast enough for me.
    With the triple on swooping roads 35mph is doable. Unless someone has singletrack from their doorstep or strictly uses trail centres, the big cog is a great speed king
    i can't ride for sh*t but i'm good at extreme pushing

  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Everyone is different, but if you're in 22/36, walking would be faster. I would just spin out in leaves. I'm glad it works for you though. I'm too impatient.

    I run a 1x9 and I can push 25 mph comfortably and I don't see why people are always talking about higher gears. Unless you're racing down a double track fire road then they're not needed. 25 mph on the road is plenty fast enough for me.
    RE walking being faster, the small cog on Strava LVL 4 climbs or above, spinning up is way more fun than pushing, and better for fitness too. Applies to tech off road climbs where stomping up just isn't possible. If you live in a flat area, or like pushing up steepness, save them few grams and go 1x11, only making it harder on yourself in the long run.


    i can't ride for sh*t but i'm good at extreme pushing

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Yeah, I agree 3x/availability of a wider gear range still has a place - it all depends if you are a spinner or a masher or a stander, how steep your trails are, how long your rides are, if you are optimizing for DH or UH, or it you want to blast through the road bits on bigger gears to get to the trails or make up time on a long XC race... it does not automatically mean that you are a weaker rider who needs a crutch. 1x will definitely make you go faster if you find that you don't actually need the lower gears for where you are riding, and you don't need the top end.

    I really do love the idea of the 1x for the simplicity, but I want it on my recreational, 6" travel DH-ish oriented bike, not the XC endurance 29'er.
    This says it all really, great post.
    i can't ride for sh*t but i'm good at extreme pushing

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopamine View Post
    LOTS of varying opinions in this thread! I'm considering going 1x11 with the new XT group coming out in a month or two. Considering going 30 or 32 tooth up front with an 11-42 in back.

    Can you folks give me some personalized advice on what the jump might be like from my current setup? I'm a 155 pound rider on a lightweight 650b hardtail, fit, long time rider. I currently run a 2x10 with 26x38 up front and an 11-34 cassette in back. I like this setup and use all the gears, but admittedly spend more time in the small ring than big.

    I'm probably better off just saving the coin obviously since I like my current setup (it's the 10-speed XT group). But the new group is tempting...
    Have a 1x10 on my Kona, with the One-Up 42 and 16t cogs. 29er, slightly heavier build than you. Bike came with a 34t chainring but since I replaced it with a 32t and I can get up everything around here, and faster than many that spin themselves out on the way up. Missing a bit at the low end but feet got used to it and I got to appreciate pushing a higher gear, helps with traction. Hope this helps, enjoy!
    Last edited by mevnet; 07-21-2015 at 04:38 AM. Reason: higher gear instead of lower gear
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  33. #333
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    @lixxfe, the time spent riding with our kids is priceless indeed. My son is a bit older and last winter I've modified his bike to a 1x10 setup with NW and clutch RD. I think all kids bikes should be like that, he's absolutely loving it and I have not had to touch it since, working flawless. It's here starting around minute 13

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  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrepsz View Post
    here is what I've stated using a Road setup. Comparing both 26er and 29er with two different combinations of road cassettes.

    11-32 / 22-36 for 29ers is actually better than I thought! excellent numbers for Low and High speed

    How do you generate these tables of the gear ratios?

  35. #335
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    I'll just stick with my Rohloffs....

  36. #336
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    30 x 11 (27.5) on a downhill road just requires a quick, seated, high (high!) cadence burst, then coasting as gravity maintains the speed.

    I keep up with all my fast riding buds on 2x10s in those situations.

    And I am good with that speed on gravel roads, as, gravel and speed don't mix that well.

    P

  37. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladljon View Post
    I'll just stick with my Rohloffs....
    Speaking of expensive!

    (jealous)
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  38. #338
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    Hey just found out you can order the 11t rear from Amazon for $7- sweet- the old one was skipping under heavy load- all better with the new one $7 and 10min

  39. #339
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    Well I guess I'll just stop using my big chainring/small cog combo on the 3x10, because according to all of the math on the interwebz, I don't really need it.
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  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladljon View Post
    I'll just stick with my Rohloffs....
    My dream drivetrain is Rohloffs with half the weight and half the gears, (and half the price) but same range.

    Because if one has time to establish perfect cadence, his trails suck anyway. 5 to 7 speed with 500%+ range would be just fine.

  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    My dream drivetrain is Rohloffs with half the weight and half the gears, (and half the price) but same range.

    Because if one has time to establish perfect cadence, his trails suck anyway. 5 to 7 speed with 500%+ range would be just fine.
    I'm currently running 11/34 6-speed and would be the last person to disagree with you. The trails I ride are constantly changing, and I can easily vary my cadence instead of constantly shifting to find the perfect gear.

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    This is another example of expert advice that may not really apply to more ordinary riders:



    To match my current low, that would be a 28 up front, not a 30. But I ride a 26er.
    Your calculations are for a 29er, so make that a 26 up front. Now what happens to my top speed? And if my spinning is more like 80 or 90 rpm instead of 100?

    I don't race at all.
    My point was that if very strong people are not doing it (25mph on flat dirt road transitions) in race situations, I doubt slower riders in non-race situations are, either. Or slower racers, for that matter.

    And, if you're heading downhill fast for long periods of time, sprint and tuck.

    I've yet to find a scenario where 34x10 wasn't a high enough gear on a 29er, on the trail, dirt road or pavement.

    Personally, having a road/track/cx background, I'm comfortable in a very wide range of cadences. 60-120rpm+, no problem. A wide power delivery band is a strength.
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  43. #343
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    No one is talking about the issue that is behind much of the drivetrain problem:

    Mtb drivetrains are very much "over geared" for your avid, accomplished trail rider. Like most mtb designs that have evolved from road biking.

    Disagree?

    For every cassette worn out on the 11t I'll show you ten cassettes worn out on the easy 3.



    The folks who cling to that really tall gear, so they can push the speed limit on 30 seconds of a 3 hour ride - that should not dictate drivetrain design. Interestingly, back in my racing days, I mostly raced SS class. It was not I was dropped off the pack of geared riders on the fast, open downs. Quick, high rpm bursts, then going into a tuck worked better than pushing the big cookie - especially when the trail turned back up. My motor was fresher. Well, I digress, that's just me. But, fine if someone likes to push the big ring on the downs for few seconds - just don't design a drivetrain around it.

    Furthermore, riders on the open, going 25 mph, and spinning very long - come on. Are riders really doing that on a real trail tire? XC semi-slicks or inner tubes with pimples - maybe, but I don't think its common to maintain that on a real trail tire. Lets see these guys push a Maxxis DHR down the dirt road for 5 minutes on a 38 x 11 at 100 rpm.


    Mtb suspension, frame, brake, and tire design, are finally taking their cues from the aggressive trail riding contingent. Maybe its time to stop developing drive trains based on the needs of pro xc racers.

  44. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post

    For every cassette worn out on the 11t I'll show you ten cassettes worn out on the easy 3.
    So Im from the new math era an all so maybe I'm confused here. On my am training ride I climb 1,600 ft in 3.5mi--with my front 28T and a combination of 3 rear gears (36/28/24) and I descend that very same 3.5mi with the front 40T and the 11T rear--for me "getting on the gas" coming out of corners is a priority.

    so the 11T gets used 2-3 times as much as the 36/28/24 in the rear--why the wouldn't wear out ALOT faster--NOT only is it rotating 3x as fast--the torque is held by fewer teeth

  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trackho View Post
    So Im from the new math era an all so maybe I'm confused here. On my am training ride I climb 1,600 ft in 3.5mi--with my front 28T and a combination of 3 rear gears (36/28/24) and I descend that very same 3.5mi with the front 40T and the 11T rear--for me "getting on the gas" coming out of corners is a priority.

    so the 11T gets used 2-3 times as much as the 36/28/24 in the rear--why the wouldn't wear out ALOT faster--NOT only is it rotating 3x as fast--the torque is held by fewer teeth
    With a 40x11, at 80rpm, you'd be going:

    26x2.1: 22.1mph
    27.5x2.1: 23mph
    29x2.1: 23.9mph

    Are you really descending single track at damn near 24mph? Also, if you are "getting on the gas", doesn't that mean that you are re-accelerating? Wouldn't you be up-shifting during this time, from lower gears?

    Also, an 11t isn't going to see the same torque as the larger cogs. Not even close.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Well I guess I'll just stop using my big chainring/small cog combo on the 3x10, because according to all of the math on the interwebz, I don't really need it.
    Yes, you have more gears than you need and that's unfair. You must succumb to marketing hype and ride what you are told to. 1x11 on your new 28.1 inch wheel bike. Follow, Spend, Obey.................
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  47. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    With a 40x11, at 80rpm, you'd be going:

    26x2.1: 22.1mph
    27.5x2.1: 23mph
    29x2.1: 23.9mph

    Are you really descending single track at damn near 24mph? Also, if you are "getting on the gas", doesn't that mean that you are re-accelerating? Wouldn't you be up-shifting during this time, from lower gears?

    Also, an 11t isn't going to see the same torque as the larger cogs. Not even close.
    Yes-

  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Well I guess I'll just stop using my big chainring/small cog combo on the 3x10, because according to all of the math on the interwebz, I don't really need it.
    Yeah and heaven forbid you go over 20MPH and 38MPH is just, well---impossible, irresponsible, illegal and immoral

  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trackho View Post
    Yeah and heaven forbid you go over 20MPH and 38MPH is just, well---impossible, irresponsible, illegal and immoral
    Don't kid yourself. With national health care, it may become illegal.

  50. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Don't kid yourself. With national health care, it may become illegal.
    Way to poison the thread.
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  51. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Yes, you have more gears than you need and that's unfair. You must succumb to marketing hype and ride what you are told to. 1x11 on your new 28.1 inch wheel bike. Follow, Spend, Obey.................
    Wah, wah. 1x11 is really really awesome for a shit ton of people. It's just not for all. Choice is good and we live in good dirt times.
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  52. #352
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    Here's an observation from reading the posts. If you don't have enough gears on the bike and you ride through varying terrain, you need to develop internal gears in your legs. You need to generate torque at different rpms. And you need to be able sustain high rpms.
    IPA will save America

  53. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Here's an observation from reading the posts. If you don't have enough gears on the bike and you ride through varying terrain, you need to develop internal gears in your legs. You need to generate torque at different rpms. And you need to be able sustain high rpms.
    Here's an observation from reading the posts. Different people ride in vastly different types of terrain. Therefore different people need vastly different drivetrain setups. What works in the plains of middle America will not work in the mountainous region of Southern California.

  54. #354
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    BS...

    The spectrum, or bell curve, should still shift towards lower gearing if it is to benefit the majority of trail riders.

    Again, for every one cassette with the 11t worn out there will be ten cassettes with the lowest 3 worn out - that is hard to argue with.

    Compensating for the loss of a high gear is a small issue (unless you are a pro racer) compared to the detriment of insufficient low end gearing. Yes?

    Just look at all the aftermarket gadgets riders are resorting to in order to improve the low end gearing - that is hard to argue with.


    This is not for or against the 1x11, or multiple front rings. It is time for the mtb drivetrain to shed its roadie roots and start gearing appropriately for trail riders.

    I was a die hard SSer who pushed a 2:1 for years, but tall gears should take the back seat to low end range on FS trail bikes.
    Last edited by Miker J; 07-22-2015 at 03:51 AM.

  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    BS...

    The spectrum, or bell curve, should still shift towards lower gearing if it is to benefit the majority of trail riders.

    Again, for every one cassette with the 11t worn out there will be ten cassettes with the lowest 3 worn out - that is hard to argue with.

    Compensating for the loss of a high gear is a small issue (unless you are a pro racer) compared to the detriment of insufficient low end gearing. Yes?

    Just look at all the aftermarket gadgets riders are resorting to in order to improve the low end gearing - that is hard to argue with.


    This is not for or against the 1x11, or multiple front rings. It is time for the mtb drivetrain to shed its roadie roots and start gearing appropriately for trail riders.

    I was a die hard SSer who pushed a 2:1 for years, but tall gears should the back seat to low end range on FS trail bike.
    Well said. Like button 10x.
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  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    BS...

    The spectrum, or bell curve, should still shift towards lower gearing if it is to benefit the majority of trail riders.

    Again, for every one cassette with the 11t worn out there will be ten cassettes with the lowest 3 worn out - that is hard to argue with.

    Compensating for the loss of a high gear is a small issue (unless you are a pro racer) compared to the detriment of insufficient low end gearing. Yes?

    Just look at all the aftermarket gadgets riders are resorting to in order to improve the low end gearing - that is hard to argue with.


    This is not for or against the 1x11, or multiple front rings. It is time for the mtb drivetrain to shed its roadie roots and start gearing appropriately for trail riders.

    I was a die hard SSer who pushed a 2:1 for years, but tall gears should the back seat to low end range on FS trail bike.
    I think you are correct. On that note, most roadies are over-geared as well. Back in my racer days you were considered a pu$$y if the lowest gear on your road bike was anything lower than a 39x25. Considering that's the same gear that most Pros ride up the mountains in the TDF, its pretty idiotic for a bunch of Cat 4's and 3's to think they should be using the same gear. Not to mention plenty of pros now break out the compact cranks for the really steep stuff.

  57. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopamine View Post
    I think you are correct. On that note, most roadies are over-geared as well. Back in my racer days you were considered a pu$$y if the lowest gear on your road bike was anything lower than a 39x25. Considering that's the same gear that most Pros ride up the mountains in the TDF, its pretty idiotic for a bunch of Cat 4's and 3's to think they should be using the same gear. Not to mention plenty of pros now break out the compact cranks for the really steep stuff.
    You'll like this, this is pretty interesting:

    AngryAsian: Gear down to go faster - BikeRadar

    P

  58. #358
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    1x11...I think I'm over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    You'll like this, this is pretty interesting:

    AngryAsian: Gear down to go faster - BikeRadar

    P
    I think that's where a light bike makes the difference. I support the idea of climbing the steeps at 30F/30R improving momentum, speed, succeed sections because of those benefits...but that can be experienced on a sub 20lbs rig...go try that on a 30lbs rig.

    ....then there is a lot of people that don't understand weight weenies...

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  59. #359
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    Heres my take. I like one by ten(32t front 11-42t(one up) rear) on my 29er living here in The Czech Republic, the terrain is undulating nothing too severe. Its a different story when I go home(yorkshire), with 1-2km of climbing. One or two hour rides no problem, but after 5 hours on the bike, i really wish for a smaller gear, all thoughts of "this is making me fitter/stronger" Go out of the window. So in a nutshell it depends on the terrain you ride and the duration.

  60. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Here's an observation from reading the posts. If you don't have enough gears on the bike and you ride through varying terrain, you need to develop internal gears in your legs. You need to generate torque at different rpms. And you need to be able sustain high rpms.
    Yes, but you can do overgeared climbing rides and high cadence rides in your regular ride rotation to train for those things - you don't have to force yourself into it 100% of the time by your gearing. Or, you could just have a SS for specifically training overgeared + high cadence. I also have a great workout by Foundation training that helps with strengthening the posterior chain (glutes & hammies) so that the mechanics of that overgeared climbing is smooth and even - otherwise it can cause imbalances which harm to the lower back, knees, etc. For long rides say, 6+ hrs, it's usually better to spin in as easy gear as possible, at least for the beginning part, then maybe the last hour or so you can ratchet it up. Granted, overgeared for me is going to look a lot different than overgeared for an elite-level athlete. Pro's won't need as low of gearing. But the point is, there is a specific situation where the small gears (relative to your level) come in handy. It is a small, and seeming like it's getting smaller crew of people who are into super-long rides.
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  61. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    It is a small, and seeming like it's getting smaller crew of people who are into super-long rides.
    You hit the nail right on the head here. And that's why a lot of people can do a 1x drive train. They go out for 45 minutes to an hour, do a few stunts, watch other people, shoot the shit and its over. Try riding a 1x for two plus hours without stopping in terrain with hills that are hard to climb in 22x34. You'll be pushing up the hills and coasting going down, instead of having a gear to get power to the wheels in case you need it to get out of trouble. Out here there are hills you can't climb in the lowest gears and your hitting 40+mph on a daily basis. A 1x would be just stupid for some people.

  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by lixxfe View Post
    Not a typical application, but I found a couple of other advantages for my almost 5 y/o :

    Here's the bike I built for him, so we can spend more time riding 'real' trails (Emmy McCrary-down, Sierra Morena, etc). (I'm not called the greatest dad ever for no reason.):
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Di2 Ultegra.jpg 
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    He's been riding it for about 9 months now. 1x9. It's got an Ultegra (Road) RD with Remote Climbing shifter and a 'custom' 11-32 road cassette. (It's a mash-up of two different cassettes with 2 middle gears removed to create a 9sp. The short chainstays make the chain angles too extreme for the full 11sp cassette.)

    For my son, the advantages are:
    1) Easy shifting with the push-buttons. He's not quite strong enough for thumb or grip shifters yet. The XTR shifters are a step backwards in this department since they are as stiff as mechanical shifters.
    2) Tolerates shifting w/o pedaling. He can click-off a couple of shifts at standstill, then start pedaling. The shifter's brains will then execute the shifts.

    Expensive? Hell yeah, but that just means I don't get my HD3 for a couple more years. The time we get to spend riding is priceless for me and his mom.
    Would you consider adopting me????
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  63. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    I said "up to", not 4 hours every day - just a couple times a week at that longer ride. My minimum is 40 minutes, usual is 1-1.5 hours - going very hard.

    My bike recovery day is usually a trip to the gym to work on other non-biking muscles as I lose weight.
    Still 1-1.5 hrs every day is a lot without a rest day of being totally off the bike. Did someone test your genetics yet for being part mountain goat???

    I'd hit the over training wall in 3 weeks going that hard that often.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  64. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Any comment stating that some particular gear range is a must, and anything else is stupid, is silly. I think the statement about the 10t takes the cake.

    No. One does not need 10t to have a perfectly useful 1xN drivetrain.
    Shhhhhhhhhh

    Stop contradicting SRAMs marketing hype. I heard they have people that find you and help convince you your are wrong.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  65. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Either work on your climbing or buy additional gears.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard25 View Post
    That's the beauty of it. I get to work on my climbing or walk. Which I haven't yet!
    I demoed a Spec thing with a 1x11 and 32 ring in front at Santa Teresa. Let me just say climbing Stiles Ranch trail was never so exciting. When I had to force it up some rock I was not sure if I was going to make it or fall over the drop off and roll down the hill.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Either work on your climbing or buy additional gears.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    BS...

    The spectrum, or bell curve, should still shift towards lower gearing if it is to benefit the majority of trail riders.

    Again, for every one cassette with the 11t worn out there will be ten cassettes with the lowest 3 worn out - that is hard to argue with.

    Compensating for the loss of a high gear is a small issue (unless you are a pro racer) compared to the detriment of insufficient low end gearing. Yes?

    Just look at all the aftermarket gadgets riders are resorting to in order to improve the low end gearing - that is hard to argue with.

    .
    I went from 3x to 2x with a bash (32t). I did not miss the high end. Some spots I was going 100 rpms in 32x11 but it was not a big deal and I got a PR for that segment............

    It's also been real fun just to bash a log and clear it.

    I just look at this way

    If I run out of low gears on that long steep climb, I have to walk off the bike

    If I run out of high gears on that long, fast DH, I coast, but I'm still on the bike.

    I'll take the latter.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  67. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    You hit the nail right on the head here. And that's why a lot of people can do a 1x drive train. They go out for 45 minutes to an hour, do a few stunts, watch other people, shoot the shit and its over. Try riding a 1x for two plus hours without stopping in terrain with hills that are hard to climb in 22x34. You'll be pushing up the hills and coasting going down, instead of having a gear to get power to the wheels in case you need it to get out of trouble. Out here there are hills you can't climb in the lowest gears and your hitting 40+mph on a daily basis. A 1x would be just stupid for some people.
    I hear ya Shawn - Norcal has its share of steep, too. I switched from 2x10 to 3x10 after doing 13k of climbing in just 60 miles at a state park over here just south of San Jose. At the place that the OP of this thread was referring to, just Sunday I hit 8200' in only 40 miles. Also, I've done 11k in 45 miles at Skeggs. 1x or 2x, it doesn't matter, you just need super low-range, like 22 in front, and it doesn't necessarily mean you're a weak rider.
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  68. #368
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    Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn
    Let me clarify: The fingers of your gloves are gonna get a little messy! Which means everything you touch is gonna get messy with a black greasy sludge. I sure as shit done want that!
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Why you using motor oil
    OK from yesterday here's my Chiner's chain treated w/ a Finish Line dry lube:


    11~34 + 22/32 no FD; the original set-up going on to 3 years of use, chain is still in good shape.

    Giving it the finger; flooded application; excess wiped off with rags (every other time I will also use compressed air---I'll probably hear from some purist gearheads about that):


    Note very little residue coming off on skin; gloves???....pfffft!

    FWIW the front set-up:


    Note trick Gorilla tape stone guard.

    After 17 Coe miles yesterday mostly dry/dusty single track:


    That dust will blow off with compressed air (sorry gearheads); I'll give the bike/drivetrain a washing every 6 or so rides (depending) when the dry (or wet) lube build-up becomes noticeable. I usually use an "agent orange" solvent (limonene) followed with Simple Green.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  69. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    You hit the nail right on the head here. And that's why a lot of people can do a 1x drive train. They go out for 45 minutes to an hour, do a few stunts, watch other people, shoot the shit and its over. Try riding a 1x for two plus hours without stopping in terrain with hills that are hard to climb in 22x34. You'll be pushing up the hills and coasting going down, instead of having a gear to get power to the wheels in case you need it to get out of trouble. Out here there are hills you can't climb in the lowest gears and your hitting 40+mph on a daily basis. A 1x would be just stupid for some people.
    You mean normal riding............

    I'm can't remember the last time I was out for an hr on a ride. Sometimes I will work some climbs, like Stiles at Santa Teresa, but even then it's 1.5 hrs with warm up and cool down.

    Maybe for beginner riders that are working on endurance, 45-60 works. In any event, they are at least out there riding. It's better than sitting on the couch playing Xbox.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  70. #370
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    Has the 1.

    Needs the x 11.

    1x11...I'm over it for hills-100mph-bike-01.jpg

  71. #371
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    Shredchics got it

    12 rambling pages on the topic and it really comes down to the riding you do. 1x may work better for some trail/fun bike rides, 2x may work better for XC or epic rides. That's my take on getting a new 2x setup on my XC rig. Horses for courses.

    Actually I think Squash started this just to fuel some new banter with everyone now that the 29er vs 27.5 debates have subsided. One question I have is how come the fat and + bikes aren't getting any heat? 😳
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  72. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    One question I have is how come the fat and + bikes aren't getting any heat? 
    I think we've all been caught riding something one way or another that was a little too fat at least once in our lives

  73. #373
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    I've sat on the sidelines during the 1x craze mostly aboard 2x10 setups with clutch derailleurs. I never felt like I needed something different. Sure I occasionally drop a chain or the front derailleur can jump the big ring when it's out of tune. These are rarities. What I'm not okay with is having enough gears for the up or down. My observation is that the 1x guys are either complaining that their crank is too hard to turn over, then they downsize, then it's not enough for the down. Am I wrong here? Isn't this new shimano side swing front derailleur supposed to eliminate most of the issues and bring everyone back to where they want to be on 2x10 or 2x11? I just ordered a Mach 6 with the 2016 XT 2x11. Pretty sure I've successfully escaped 1x for the moment. Though a few bike's I've got in mind for the remaining fleet update are equipped with 1x set ups.

  74. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Wah, wah. 1x11 is really really awesome for a shit ton of people. It's just not for all. Choice is good and we live in good dirt times.
    You are taking my post too seriously
    Think the movie 1984.
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  75. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Everyone is different, but if you're in 22/36, walking would be faster. I would just spin out in leaves. I'm glad it works for you though. I'm too impatient.
    Sometimes I walk but I prefer the spin. The 22/36 works for smoother trails that are in the order of 20-25% grade having already climbed some 1000+ feet. It's too low for technical trails as you need a bit of torque for that but I find it saves me from having to get off a push which breaks my rhythm when you hit those short super steep bits there just dropping to 22/36 allows tired legs just to keep on spinning for a few more feet until you get back on mellower grades.

    My bike came with a 24 small ring but I found I was just running out of gas too much. With the 22 I may be no quicker but I can climb so much more than I used to.

    Meanwhile, I still have gears to bomb downhill at 30+...

  76. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Exactly! It forces you to improve. The same can be said of the SS.
    I always love these comments. I assume they are written by youngsters... Some people reach a point in their life where it is harder to "improve" anymore. For us, it's about maintenance. Can I improve? Probably, but the reality is that I probably won't..

  77. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    Another 3x10 holdout here. 11-36 rear, 24-32-42 front (Why did Marin spec the granny and the middle only 8 apart like that? a 22 would make more sense and I want to change it to that).

    I live in the mountains and ride to the trailheads.
    You should! I did and it's brilliant. I live near the mountains and will ride the 7 miles on easier trails to get to them. Range is good.

  78. #378
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    1x11...I think I'm over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by capoz77 View Post
    RE walking being faster, the small cog on Strava LVL 4 climbs or above, spinning up is way more fun than pushing, and better for fitness too. Applies to tech off road climbs where stomping up just isn't possible. If you live in a flat area, or like pushing up steepness, save them few grams and go 1x11, only making it harder on yourself in the long run.


    I'm not sure where you're going with this. Today I climbed 1,200 feet in 0.8 of a mile on a 1x9. My 32x34 was too low of a gear in one situation and I spun out. In tech, speed is your friend. This section includes wet rocks, roots, and other situations where you need speed to cross the obstacle that would cause you to spin out. It would be impossible to spin up this, but this is not your typical trail. I do agree with you. I prefer spinning and at times it is hard to find the correct cadence with my 1x drivetrain. That is its biggest downfall
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  79. #379
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    The main concern I had about switching to 1x11 was low-end gearing. I answered that yesterday by making it up a grotesquely steep 1100+ ft, 1.5 mile climb (Shafter Grade in Marin) on my trail bike with 30t 1x11, 27.5 x 2.35 tires. It somehow seemed easier than a few days earlier on my 29er hardtail with 2x10 26/38t vs. 11-36t cog, although I went a wee bit slower. I was in the top gear too a few times later in the ride, so the range is just about right.

    Agree with the above re length of rides and need to spin. A 2 hour ride seems short; 4 hours is about perfect, when I can do it.

  80. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNormsk View Post
    I always love these comments. I assume they are written by youngsters... Some people reach a point in their life where it is harder to "improve" anymore. For us, it's about maintenance. Can I improve? Probably, but the reality is that I probably won't..
    The original comment was directed at me. Believe me, if my knees or something starts to ache, I'll be the first to throw a double or a triple on if it keeps me riding.

  81. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Would you consider adopting me????
    Ha Ha, me and mom have second thoughts about the one !

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    Quote Originally Posted by mevnet View Post
    @lixxfe, the time spent riding with our kids is priceless indeed. My son is a bit older and last winter I've modified his bike to a 1x10 setup with NW and clutch RD. I think all kids bikes should be like that, he's absolutely loving it and I have not had to touch it since, working flawless. It's here starting around minute 13

    Thanks for the video. At the time I built up my son's bike, he wasn't strong enough to use the normal shifters, let alone go to clutched RD. That will change pretty soon, I think.

    I agree that kids bike should have quality components for real trail riding, but most parents don't understand me spending >$500 for my bike, let alone for a kid's!

  83. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    The most irritating thing on kids bikes is lack of economical short cranks with direct mount chainrings. Because most useful front gear is often around 28 or 30. And readily available short cranks are all of 5 arm variety, going down to 34t only.

    I wish Race face made cinch turbines - or cheaper ones - in 150mm at least.
    Are you really insisting on direct mount? Or just something that will take a smaller ring? If the latter, have you looked into this:Trailcraft Cycles

    From the bike specs, it looks like 152mm length and 104mm BCD for the big ring. I'm assuming 64mm for the small, since trailcraft mention "...more aftermarket chainring options..." as a feature of their bikes.

    AbsoluteBlack make N/W for 64mm as small as 26t:XX1 STYLE - Shimano

  84. #384
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    1x11...I think I'm over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by lixxfe View Post
    Are you really insisting on direct mount? Or just something that will take a smaller ring? If the latter, have you looked into this:Trailcraft Cycles

    From the bike specs, it looks like 152mm length and 104mm BCD for the big ring. I'm assuming 64mm for the small, since trailcraft mention "...more aftermarket chainring options..." as a feature of their bikes.

    AbsoluteBlack make N/W for 64mm as small as 26t:XX1 STYLE - Shimano
    nW in granny position does not work well with small rear cogs.
    And square taper like trail craft can not be used with press fit frames (curse them). I have a 13" Chinese carbon 26" wheel frame laying around, only found in that size with pressfit, without thinking about adopting square taper. Now need to buy Canfields cranks to make it work. Though I think 155 will work well for them on a DH bike for a long time, so worth it.

  85. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNormsk View Post
    I always love these comments. I assume they are written by youngsters... Some people reach a point in their life where it is harder to "improve" anymore. For us, it's about maintenance. Can I improve? Probably, but the reality is that I probably won't..
    I always assume it's old close minded dudes saying that. I don't agree with it either but it did give me ripped legs to contrast my twiggy arms.

  86. #386
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    Did we hit 400 posts???
    IPA will save America

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Did we hit 400 posts???
    Yep, all on something that is really personal preference.

    I will say it was interesting to read on how people around here are doing with 1x11. With Coe, Kennedy and ST, I thought 1x11 might be a bit tall on gearing for many
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  88. #388
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    I have read that some of the bikes that come with 1X11 cannot fit a front derailleur. How prevalent Is that?

  89. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    I have read that some of the bikes that come with 1X11 cannot fit a front derailleur. How prevalent Is that?
    The new Nomad is the only one I've heard of so far with no FD mount, which makes sense. But you can still get 2x on the Bronson on down the line. So I guess they are still making the more all-around xc/trail bikes with a FD mount.
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  90. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Yep, all on something that is really personal preference.
    ...
    Nope. Red vs. blue is personal preference. This thread is hot because it makes people think and makes them aware. What factors make 1x11 or other options ideal? What are the advantages/disadvantages of each? What are the cool mods or upgrades.

    At the end of the day, these discussions are really valuable when choosing your next drivetrain.
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  91. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    The new Nomad is the only one I've heard of so far with no FD mount, which makes sense. But you can still get 2x on the Bronson on down the line. So I guess they are still making the more all-around xc/trail bikes with a FD mount.
    S-Works Epic WC, too.
    Death from Below.

  92. #392
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    I guess that's what is good about frames that use internal routing and clamp on front derailleurs. It will have a clean look if you choose to go 1x.

    IIRC, the WC frames still have the hole in the frame for a FD cable?

  93. #393
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    Well, after reading through this thread, I think it's safe to say that 1x11s are the best and make you stronger/better.

    On a side note, if anyone is looking for a brand new, never used 1x11 (30x10:42) XO drive train groupo (the whole Caboodle), please PM me.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  94. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Well, after reading through this thread, I think it's safe to say that 1x11s are the best and make you stronger/better.

    On a side note, if anyone is looking for a brand new, never used 1x11 (30x10:42) XO drive train groupo (the whole Caboodle), please PM me.
    All this for a pre sale pitch? 😎
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  95. #395
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    'splaining to do...

    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Well, after reading through this thread, I think it's safe to say that 1x11s are the best and make you stronger/better.

    On a side note, if anyone is looking for a brand new, never used 1x11 (30x10:42) XO drive train groupo (the whole Caboodle), please PM me.
    ...errr; where does this "brand new, never used" come from? Or is "like brand new" the term you were looking for?

    Or, is all your 1x11 experience from demo bikes?

    And you then bought the whole caboodle anyway?
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  96. #396
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    Yah, inquiring minds.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  97. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    All this for a pre sale pitch? 😎
    My next thread will be called, "Trampolines...do they make you a better rider?"

    "...errr; where does this "brand new, never used" come from? Or is "like brand new" the term you were looking for? Or, is all your 1x11 experience from demo bikes?"

    I bought a new bike that came with 1x11...I am removing and putting a 2x Di2 on it. Therefore it's new, and never used... I have another year old bike that has 1x11 and it will stay that way because it's pretty light and I officially ran out of money. Caboodle means brakes, cranks, derailleur, shifter, cassette, chain guide, chain.

    word
    I'm not sure how this works.

  98. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    My next thread will be called, "Trampolines...do they make you a better rider?"

    "...errr; where does this "brand new, never used" come from? Or is "like brand new" the term you were looking for? Or, is all your 1x11 experience from demo bikes?"

    I bought a new bike that came with 1x11...I am removing and putting a 2x Di2 on it. Therefore it's new, and never used... I have another year old bike that has 1x11 and it will stay that way because it's pretty light and I officially ran out of money. Caboodle means brakes, cranks, derailleur, shifter, cassette, chain guide, chain.

    word
    Thanks, that pretty much answers all my questions; perfect segue:

    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  99. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    bluetooth sphincter monitor. When it senses a pucker coming on it drops the seat. When the rider relaxes; it returns to pedaling height.

    Comes in implantable and suppository versions.
    pro pucker

  100. #400
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    1x11...I'm over it for hills-1x10.jpg

    This thread convinced me to do the above 1x10 conversion on my hardtail last night by throwing on a Wolf Tooth 30T front ring, an XT 11-36 cassette on the back, and an XTR clutch rear derailleur. That results in 5% low-end gearing loss from my previous low gear which was 26x34 but it should be fine as that conversion took a whole pound off the bike!

    I took the bike out to Crocket Hills today for its maiden voyage and I loved the 1x10 - check out Wolf Tooth Components website if you are interested. That 1x with a clutch rear der had FAR more positive chain retention than anything with a double or triple front and conventional der. Not a hint of a threat of chain droppage. You can run a 26 or 28 tooth front if you want as well, using the granny ring mounts on the crank. I might pick up a 26 and just bolt it on there in addition to my main 30 tooth ring for a "long day in the mountains and I'm bonked" bail-out gear. Could just manually drop the chain on to the 26 from the 30 if I was smoked.

    But anyway, there is something to be said for the flow of riding with only a rear cluster and the zero chain rattle and perfectly positive chain retention that the system provided. I really like it, won't be going back to double on the MTB probably ever.

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