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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Well... for newer riders you are probably right.

    But, every time I'm shooting out of down into a climb my left thumb instinctively, blindly, pokes for my front shifter to dump gears. I've got the SRAM mod for the Specialized Blacklite on the left to drop the post and it has replaced the FD. So, instead of dropping gears for a steep climb my darn thumb has me dropping my post!

    Unfortunately, even after a year I'm not use to it.

    This is a great thread, as I don't think the 1x is the end all be all - just another option the discenring rider has at there disposal to dial their ride.

    Shimano has seemed to do it best. You get the option of how you'd like to build your transmission - 1x or 2x, etc. The one big mistake they made is not having their XTR cassestte available in a 42t.

    SRAM really ticked people off with forcing them to mess with their hubs. I've got 4 King rear hubs that are really old but going super strong and changing over to an XD driver would be a costly hassle. Was there any legit reason why SRAM could not offer one high end 11 speed cassette that did away with the 10t and fit a standard spline? If SRAM did that they could still get some of the market back from Shimano.

    IMO the future is electronic shifting with a single right hand shifter, and a 2x, with auto FD shift. I think in about 3 years we'll see this on a lot more bikes.

    I think I got off track.

    Very, very good observations DJ Miker J.

    On your left dropper trigger confusion. It's been a year man, you should have that sorted by now.

    Maybe there's underlying circumstances like: you're not riding enough, too much road bike. Or you have other bikes in the stable with left shifters.
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  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalinas View Post
    Dumb question alert...is a 30x42 1x gearing easier on a 29er vs 26er? b/c gear inches, science and stuff
    It's easier on a smaller wheel like the 26er. To get the equivalent gear inches on a 29er, you have to go with 28t front.
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    It's easier on a smaller wheel like the 26er. To get the equivalent gear inches on a 29er, you have to go with 28t front.
    29ers gearing is about 11% taller than on a 26er due to the larger tire circumference.

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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    29ers gearing is about 11% taller than on a 26er due to the larger tire circumference.

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    No way brah. It's only a couple teeth. It's too early for that kind of math though.
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  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Damn brotherman, good call. Yes, they have gripshift for sure. And I heard the new stuff is a whole lot better. How a bout trigger on the right and grip left? Yeah.

    Or how about trigger, trigger shifters then gripshift to actuate the dropper. Boom shaka lak.
    Options are good...I was thinking that a wireless actuated dropper (small battery & servo in the dropper itself) would be the shiznit.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalinas View Post
    Options are good...I was thinking that a wireless actuated dropper (small battery & servo in the dropper itself) would be the shiznit.
    Yep, the Di2 battery can power that. For $450, that dropper post should come with wireless and brushless motor to go up and down.
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  7. #207
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    1x11 and not going back. I guess I am too much of a poser to notice the limitations.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I use it with Thomson. Still alive. Obviously, does not work nearly as well as a remote, but easy to swap with a regular post. Compromise.
    Yep, pretty much alive and I yet have to see remote that works as flawless as a lever. It may seem inconvenient to take the hand off the bar, but it's quick and reliable once you get used to it.
    I used to run tubes like you are, but then I got thorn in my wheel.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    10-44 cassette would give all the range I need. Right now, I suffer too much in granny with a 2x10 to even think about 1x system. The one time I rode one it was pretty slick though.

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    Good news for you, they just rolled out a 45T !!!
    OneUp Components US - 45T Sprocket +18T XT/XTR [Shimano 1x11]

    I'm waiting for the 48 or the 53T.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    Hard to say, since it depends on what you compare it to. But in general, the price for the Di2 fit comfortably into my $10K Santa Cruz Bronson, with carbon frame, Nox carbon wheels and top of the line fork (Pike RCT3 Dual Position) and shock (CC DBair).

    First, here's what I personally paid for the Di2 electronic drive train at Evans, Chain Reaction, and Jenson's. With some international shopping, I typically got about 30% or more off list price. The Euro exchange rate isn't quite as good now, so it'll be a little higher now. Note that with Evans and Chain Reaction, where I bought the most expensive items, there was no tax and free shipping, so this part price is the total final price.

    Front Derailleur Shimano XTR Di2 FD-M9050 3x11 $248.32
    Rear Derailleur Shimano XTR Di2 RD-M9050 11 Speed SGS $397.32
    Shifter Shimano XTR Di2 SW-M9050 11 Speed $173.99
    Shift Display Shimano XTR Di2 SC-M9050 Display $98.99
    Battery (Di2) Shimano SM-BTR2 $129.99
    Junction Box B Di2 SM-JC41 Junction B Box $29.99
    Cables Shimano Di2 cables EW-SD50 $100.00
    Battery Charger Shimano SM-BCR2 $99.99
    TOTAL
    $1,278.59
    So the total for electronic Di2 shifting might only be $500-$900 more than a mechanical shifting system. Not that bad really.


    But the Di2 only works with the XTR M9000 mechanics. So you may want to add those or not for the relative price, depending on if you wanted XTR anyway. Here's what I paid - again, well below list price.
    Crankset Shimano XTR FC-M9020-3 (40/30/22) $409.99
    Mount Sinmano Front Mech Di2 High clamp $22.99
    Cassette Shimano XTR CS-M9000 11 Speed $188.72
    Chain Shimano XTR CN-HG900-11 $33.99
    TOTAL
    $655.69
    So the XTR versus XT price may only be a few hundred dollar difference. Again, not too bad.

    Also, the weight difference is close to a wash relative to the mechanics. The higher weight of the motors in the derailleur is offset by the lighter electronic cables. Since I only use one shifter in synchro mode, it believe the Di2 system is lighter than a mechanical 3x11.
    Nice shopping dude!

    rr der still $600 around here.
    Shimano Di2 XTR M9050 Rear Derailleur > Components > Drivetrain, Brakes and Pedals > Rear Derailleurs | Jenson USA

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalk View Post
    Yep, pretty much alive and I yet have to see remote that works as flawless as a lever. It may seem inconvenient to take the hand off the bar, but it's quick and reliable once you get used to it.
    When I first got an adjustable post, I was so fascinated with it that I was moving it around on every little bump. Later I noticed I only really need it fully extended on long climbs, and fully slammed on a tricky spot or long downhill. And slightly off top spot most of of the time. So under saddle lever works just fine for that, with just a little bit of anticipation, and does not annoy nearly as much as getting off the bike to manually adjust post. And i can use the same 31.6 post on three bike, and put lightweight normal one when I want. Less clutter, and lighter.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    When I first got an adjustable post, I was so fascinated with it that I was moving it around on every little bump. Later I noticed I only really need it fully extended on long climbs, and fully slammed on a tricky spot or long downhill. And slightly off top spot most of of the time. So under saddle lever works just fine for that, with just a little bit of anticipation, and does not annoy nearly as much as getting off the bike to manually adjust post. And i can use the same 31.6 post on three bike, and put lightweight normal one when I want. Less clutter, and lighter.
    Stay on topic you two.
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  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    Holy Cow! I had no idea they were that much. That is by far the dumbest thing I've ever seen for a bike. A $600 rear derailleur that can blow up in an instant. No thanks, I destroy too many of those.
    C'mon, you've seen dumber things right???

    It is not cheap or good value, yes.

    But it works freaking awesome. And it's really tucked in now like Houdini. If you drop the bike, the derailleur doesn't touch the ground. It is much harder to rip it off or damage it.
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  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Stay on topic you two.
    Well, the whole idea of removing front shifter in favor of the post remote was kinda on topic...

    I say bring back dual control.

  15. #215
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    I say make the DI2 programmable so that it shifts gears based on cadence and inclination. Program the cadence you want to support for climbing or descending. . No shift levers at all. And just take the damn seat off. Real men stand when they ride anyways

  16. #216
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    They need to integrate shift, suspension setting and seatpost, with GPS, all electronically controlled and self optimizing based on your Strava times. With seat programmed to smack you in the balls if you slack off.

  17. #217
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    Ooh. Please may I have another

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    They need to integrate shift, suspension setting and seatpost, with GPS, all electronically controlled and self optimizing based on your Strava times. With seat programmed to smack you in the balls if you slack off.
    Hey that was my previous quote: Dropper post - simply kicks ass ; )

    P.S. FC to stay on topic, simpler dropper control saves $50 so you can spend more on RD. Next version will have an app so you can shift romotely. Imagine, do couple of swipes before getting out of car, and your bike is fired - up ready to roll in right gear.
    I used to run tubes like you are, but then I got thorn in my wheel.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek200 View Post
    I say make the DI2 programmable so that it shifts gears based on cadence and inclination. Program the cadence you want to support for climbing or descending. . No shift levers at all. And just take the damn seat off. Real men stand when they ride anyways
    done!

    Kickstarter. I saw it, I swear.

    fc
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  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    I use Blackspire Super Pro front rings 34 and 24 on my XT cranks.
    How you like the Blackspire rings? how is the shifting compared to normal XT or maybe a raceface Turbine.

    I like the concept of the 34/24 front ring combo - the 34 in particular would be a happy medium for most of my riding.

    Looked at wickworks 22/33 combo and praxis 24/36 combos, and don't want something as small as 22 or as big as 36 - afraid those are too far on the margins for the HD3 - 22 with too much anti-squat and 36 without enough.

  21. #221
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    1x11...I think I'm over it.

    OT

    Mondraker 2016: shift your weight at the same time you actuate the dropper, boom ! Change of geometry.

    Spicy ishock: electronically self regulated suspensions. Before your wheel does a quarter rotation the suspensions stiffen or soften.

    Soon, we will be able to fit our blue shorts and sit on da coach to bomb the gnarliest places (bummer)

  22. #222
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    Bluetooth sphincter monitor. When it senses a pucker coming on it drops the seat. When the rider relaxes; it returns to pedaling height.

    Comes in implantable and suppository versions.
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  23. #223
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    So pucker assist, like pedal assist?

  24. #224
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    Electric bikes. The Godwin's law of MTBR.

  25. #225
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    to the OP
    I'm totally on the same path as you. however I have found a good solution that perhaps you might try;

    2x10 with no Front shifter. I know it sounds dumb, I started riding this way as I did not have the correct mount on my front dérailleur for my new bike... and I am still riding like this.

    the advantage over a 2x10 is that you can run a NW front ring, and I find it encourages you to push, however you don't feel like your totally maxed out, it's like a little trick up your sleeve; when it get really tough you can pop it over to the front granny and you have some more gears.

  26. #226
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    It could prove dangerous, but might be just the ticket. Drop the shifter and the front derailleur but keep the two front rings and add this to shift between the chainrings:

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  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    Holy Cow! I had no idea they were that much. That is by far the dumbest thing I've ever seen for a bike. A $600 rear derailleur that can blow up in an instant. No thanks, I destroy too many of those.
    The Acera Di2 comes out next month, US$29.99.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by JungleTim View Post
    to the OP
    I'm totally on the same path as you. however I have found a good solution that perhaps you might try;

    2x10 with no Front shifter. I know it sounds dumb, I started riding this way as I did not have the correct mount on my front dérailleur for my new bike... and I am still riding like this.

    the advantage over a 2x10 is that you can run a NW front ring, and I find it encourages you to push, however you don't feel like your totally maxed out, it's like a little trick up your sleeve; when it get really tough you can pop it over to the front granny and you have some more gears.
    That's cool but, to be candid, the idea of getting off my bike so that I can make a stronger pitch more comfortable just doesn't quite jive with me for some reason...I think I'd rather suffer...or go back to 2x.

    Since I am here, this idea of keeping the 1x because it makes you stronger idea that keeps popping up...yeah, I sold this to myself at the start. I'm over it now...I want more gears. I'll suffer at my own leisure.

    And finally, this is the future of shifting/dropper post...steering and pedaling:

    I'm not sure how this works.

  29. #229
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    I got a new bike last year and opted for the 2x10 vs a 1x10+42. I really do enjoy dropping the front ring after descending when going into a climb instead of flipping through a ton of gears on rear.

    Im not the strongest climber either so I rather be comfortable climbing than save some weight.

    A lot of you had mentioned just not having a shifter on the front to move between the gears manually. Sounds neat but rather not have to stop to change a gear, just like I rather not stop to change seat height.

    Its pretty funny how everyone likes things a little different. Everyones bike is a little representation of the person who ride it.

    With the new Shimano 1x11's its tempting but I still think I would opt for the 2x11 instead of 1x11 for the same reason listed above, I really like dropping my front chain ring.

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovian View Post

    Its pretty funny how everyone likes things a little different. Everyones bike is a little representation of the person who ride it.
    Yup, it's really about options and we have a ton of good ones right now in this golden age of drivetrains.

    We are in a pivotal time too where some folks have tried a lot of what's around so making a decision about the next bike is key and fun.

    Convincing oneself or everyone that all should be on one type is not rad. Saying 3x9 is perfect is not either.
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  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Front shifting has been inferior for many reasons but things are improving:

    1) The 14 tooth jump that you state, 22/36 is stupid. It is a huge jump for cadence and it was terrible for shifting performance up or down. The new systems have a much better 10-tooth jumps now. This is made possible by wider range cassettes

    2) Chainrings have been the playground of many bling, aftermarket or big brand chainring vendors. Unfortunately, they had little understanding of the chainring hardness and shift ramps required to perform good shifts under power. This is a much better arena now with forged chainring manufacturers.

    3) Front derailleurs have been plagued by lack of stiffness. The derailleurs and mounts have been flexy. This is improved now with direct mount and newer side swing front derailleurs. These improve cable leverage and improve tire clearance as well.


    And with Di2, that consistent shifting force is always as needed. But even without electronic, front shifting is better now than before.
    So, it is a better day for front derailleurs.
    Great stuff here. Thanks fc. Explains why Shimano is doing smaller jumps of front chain rings in spite of all the gear duplication. And why front shifting has got better with better mechanics.

    This thread has been one of the best for a while. Great info on a relevant subject. Wide range of valid opinions with acceptance of other riders' desires and needs. Is this really MTBR Norcal??
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by JungleTim View Post
    to the OP
    I'm totally on the same path as you. however I have found a good solution that perhaps you might try;

    2x10 with no Front shifter. I know it sounds dumb, I started riding this way as I did not have the correct mount on my front dérailleur for my new bike... and I am still riding like this.

    the advantage over a 2x10 is that you can run a NW front ring, and I find it encourages you to push, however you don't feel like your totally maxed out, it's like a little trick up your sleeve; when it get really tough you can pop it over to the front granny and you have some more gears.
    Been riding that way all season.

    My local loops only have a only few long climbs where stopping to do a manual shift before and after ip fits nicely with a rest anyway.

    Not something for long term, but at least till my 10 speed gear wears out and I can go to 11.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    Nope, this one takes the cake by far. A complex and expensive solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I'm sure they'll sell a lot in the bay area.
    The Di2 fits certain needs. For me, it's a wide range of capability for the riding I do. I love it. I waited 10 years to upgrade my Heckler because I like my reverse normal dual control shifters so much. The Di2 is finally something better, for me.

    At an added $1K (or less if you start with XTR already), it's not horribly expensive. Seat droppers are over $400, and do much less.

    And it's not more complex. Rather it is more simple. One shifter. Up or Down. Simple. Much faster. More reliable. More capability and no compromise. When the costs come down as it migrates to lower lines, you'll see it around a lot more. Maybe some day you'll appreciate it.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    ... Maybe some day you'll appreciate it.
    Yup. The sad part is some folks dismiss it or rant that it's the worst bike product ever with having an minute of experience with it or an ounce of information about it.

    Just plead the fifth if you don't know.

    It'll hit XT and SLX so chill.
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  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    Great stuff here. Thanks fc. Explains why Shimano is doing smaller jumps of front chain rings in spite of all the gear duplication. And why front shifting has got better with better mechanics.

    This thread has been one of the best for a while. Great info on a relevant subject. Wide range of valid opinions with acceptance of other riders' desires and needs. Is this really MTBR Norcal??
    I have almost zero problems with front shifting.

    I run a 2x with 22/32. A bash guard and grip shift.

    Running a 2x allows you to have your front derraileur very close to the sprockets, enabling very fast, athoritative (best word I could think of) shifting. Even while pedaling under load.

    The bash guard keeps the chain from popping off the high end.

    Grip shift has 10 or 11 indents - enabling me to synch the derraileur right up against the chain on downhills, acting like a chain guide.

    Net net = super good, precise shifting. No dropped chains. No chain suck.
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  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovian View Post

    Its pretty funny how everyone likes things a little different. Everyones bike is a little representation of the person who ride it.
    I think you are on to something here - by this logic the OP and his minions are weak, lazy, slackers who can't peddle without a little sissy gear and should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves - whereas those of us who like our 1x our strong, strapping, studs who have much to be proud of? Yeah sounds about right

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    Seat droppers are over $400, and do much less.
    I'll draw the line right there! - I'd rather have a SS w/ a dropper post than a 3x11 with no dropper!

    If Obama tries to come and take my dropper from me, he'll have to pry it from my dead, cold hands!

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    I have almost zero problems with front shifting.

    I run a 2x with 22/32. A bash guard and grip shift.

    Running a 2x allows you to have your front derraileur very close to the sprockets, enabling very fast, athoritative (best word I could think of) shifting.

    The bash guard keeps the chain from popping off the high end.

    Grip shift has 10 or 11 indents - enabling me to synch the derraileur right up against the chain on downhills, acting like a chain guide.

    Net net = super good, precise shifting. No dropped chains. No chain suck.
    If I ever run a FD again AND get a dropper with a remote this is the set-up that I'll try.

    +++ on the derailleur acting like a chain guide.

    Haven't tried the narrow/wide chainrings yet though.
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  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    If I ever run a FD again AND get a dropper with a remote this is the set-up that I'll try.

    +++ on the derailleur acting like a chain guide.

    Haven't tried the narrow/wide chainrings yet though.
    I know not everyone appreciates grip shit - but the thought of going to a system with only 3 indents/indexes scares me. There's no way it will shift as well and hold the chain on as well.

    Maybe that's the reason so many people are doing other stuff.

    But for me, 2x works awesome.

    EDIT - I'm just going to leave that typo up there - as I'm sure many people would have typed it that way on purpose! ;-)
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  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    Nope, this one takes the cake by far. A complex and expensive solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I'm sure they'll sell a lot in the bay area.
    That is what I thought about this new SRAMs 11 requiring new free hubs and stupid expensive self-supporting cassette. Just to add 10% range with 10t vs 11t? Seems like neither a simple solution of 1x10, nor wide enough range of 2x10.

    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    It's not letting me go faster through the rough stuff or hold a line better in a corner so I can boost the big jump with zero run up.
    And that is all there is to mountain biking?

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    I think you are on to something here - by this logic the OP and his minions are weak, lazy, slackers who can't peddle without a little sissy gear and should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves - whereas those of us who like our 1x our strong, strapping, studs who have much to be proud of? Yeah sounds about right
    Well, it was a good run but looks like our old friend Skyno is drinking again.
    (Damn it...that's all I got. You may have won this thread but I'll be back and you will rue...rue like a mother fuvker.)
    I'm not sure how this works.

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    What will Di2 2x enable?

    I've been a die-hard 1x fan for a long time: Rohloff internal hub, 1x10, now 1x11. However, I recognize the limitations, especially as I get older and weaker and my knees start hurting more, so Di2 2x is real intriguing to me.

    It's also fun to speculate about where it will lead. I've always enjoyed thinking about some of the connections (real or imagined) between the various developments in MTB. For example, light carbon frames and rims allowing weight to be added elsewhere. Extra pound of dropper post, extra weight in tires, etc, but still <28lb bike!


    One possibility with Di2 2x: A narrower range rear cassette + syncro shifting. IF front shifting gets to the point that it is indistinguishable from rear shifting (and it seems to be nearly there), why waste hub-dishing and unsprung weight on gear overlap? How about back to 8 speed cassette (using 10 or 11 speed spacing) with 2x chainring? Less wheel weight, less wasted gear overlap, less dishing so a stiffer rear wheel too. Who needs Boost!?

    Exciting times. Looking forward to seeing what follows!

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    Yea, the SRAM solution wasn't all that great either but they sure did take a lot of money from the sheep.

    Now with the large Praxis cassette available I bet most 1x10 riders that want more range will just buy the Praxis cassette and save a bunch of coin and get a killer product. They solved a problem that existed without the rider having to buy all new components. That's a solid engineering decision made by riders instead of fat finance people.

    That's not all there is to mountain biking but that's what's important to me and basically every single person I ride with. Most people I know aren't too worried about how fast they can shift while cruising down a trail.
    You seem dismissive and judgemental about products not made for you and your friends. You're a good rider but there's a lot of amazing riders out there that do XC, endurance or even beginners and intermediates getting in to it.

    So anyone who bought SRAM 1x11 is sheep? And Shimano Di2 is the worst product ever?

    What gets me is you slam products you haven't tried or even understand. "Oh it's not for me so it is stupid."

    I think SRAM 1x11 is truly, truly awesome. Di2 is good too as they are improving drivetrains and usability for different categories of riders. When you're out on the trail, you don't even think about them. You just shift with the right thumb and drop with the left.

    Are they expensive? Hellsya. But they drop in price like brick. Someone's gotta pay for those engineers and someone's gotta make money. SRAM XX1 was $2k I think. The new SRAM GX is $600 now with 1x11.
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  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by lixxfe View Post
    I've been a die-hard 1x fan for a long time: Rohloff internal hub, 1x10, now 1x11. However, I recognize the limitations, especially as I get older and weaker and my knees start hurting more, so Di2 2x is real intriguing to me.

    It's also fun to speculate about where it will lead. I've always enjoyed thinking about some of the connections (real or imagined) between the various developments in MTB. For example, light carbon frames and rims allowing weight to be added elsewhere. Extra pound of dropper post, extra weight in tires, etc, but still <28lb bike!


    One possibility with Di2 2x: A narrower range rear cassette + syncro shifting. IF front shifting gets to the point that it is indistinguishable from rear shifting (and it seems to be nearly there), why waste hub-dishing and unsprung weight on gear overlap? How about back to 8 speed cassette (using 10 or 11 speed spacing) with 2x chainring? Less wheel weight, less wasted gear overlap, less dishing so a stiffer rear wheel too. Who needs Boost!?

    Exciting times. Looking forward to seeing what follows!
    Yup. You are thinking. There's a lot of thought going on around batteries, dropper, charging USB, GPS, etc. I'm not sure about mountain biking.

    For commuting, it's a slam dunk with Di2, integrated lighting, brake light, signal light, gps, etc.
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  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Well, it was a good run but looks like our old friend Skyno is drinking again.
    (Damn it...that's all I got. You may have won this thread but I'll be back and you will rue...rue like a mother fuvker.)
    You started this thread and then you run off to Hawaii and sip mai-tai's and mock us?
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    So - I read someone's comment that 2x doesn't really offer significant improvement in range over 1x. So being the geek that I am I took the new XT and built out what all the gears would look like for the three 1x options as well as the 3 2x options.
    It looks to me like 2x really only gets you 2 or sometimes three extra gears. And you just have to decide how to bias those two extra gears (lo or hi side). My comparison was only of new XT options. That comparison actually made me more interested in 1x11 than I was.

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Bluetooth sphincter monitor. When it senses a pucker coming on it drops the seat. When the rider relaxes; it returns to pedaling height.

    Comes in implantable and suppository versions.
    Maybe closer to reality than you might have thought...

    Trail Tech: Examining the next generation of dropper seatposts - BikeRadar

  48. #248
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    I'm pretty sure this is the wrong place to ask but I don't like posting on other boards here. It's regarding 1x anyways. I have 2x10 and wanted to go 1x10. Do I just need to get a chainring that's a compromise in gearing between the 2 chainrings (32t and 22t)and then remove the derailleur and other crap associated with it? Also do I really need a narrow wide chainring? If so then why? 'Cause the chain stays on the chainrings just fine but I just want to size down to a 32t from the 36t.

  49. #249
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    I compared all of the options. 1x11...I'm over it for hills-imageuploadedbytapatalk1437153465.873079.jpg

    The one thing is that shims onesie the 11-42 was only for single and the 11-40 was for 2 and 3x. You get more gears but only two gears that are lower or higher depending on what chain rings u choose

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek200 View Post
    I compared all of the options. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1437153465.873079.jpg 
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ID:	1002633

    The one thing is that shims onesie the 11-42 was only for single and the 11-40 was for 2 and 3x. You get more gears but only two gears that are lower or higher depending on what chain rings u choose
    It's much more than a gear or two.

    To match the low end gear I have with a 22/34 you'd have to run a minimum 52 tooth rear cog. That's a whole 10 more teeth - minimum.

    And you'd still not have the same top end.

    If you ran a 1x with a 34 in front and an imaginary cassette having a 11-54 spread - you'd have approximately the same range I have with my 2x set up.

    Of course, no one makes this.
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    Well. We may not be having the same conversation. I stated I was comparing the options available on the new XT group set. There isn't a 22/34 option. There is 30/32/34 for 1x and 11-42 in the rear. And in 2x you have 34/24, 36/26, and 38/28.

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokuto No Ben View Post
    I'm pretty sure this is the wrong place to ask but I don't like posting on other boards here. It's regarding 1x anyways. I have 2x10 and wanted to go 1x10. Do I just need to get a chainring that's a compromise in gearing between the 2 chainrings (32t and 22t)and then remove the derailleur and other crap associated with it? Also do I really need a narrow wide chainring? If so then why? 'Cause the chain stays on the chainrings just fine but I just want to size down to a 32t from the 36t.
    Very deep subject. Here's a detailed page:

    Converting 2x10 to 1x10 - Mountain Bike FAQ

    For your questions:

    Do I just need to get a chainring that's a compromise...?
    A: Yes. If you have a 32 and 22 right now, maybe get a 30. Remove all the other not needed stuff.

    Do I really need a narrow wide chainring? If so then why?
    A: Yes, since they retain the chain like magic. They are truly genius. You need a clutch derailleur too. Otherwise, chain might fall occasionally. There's no derailleur or chain guide to retain the chain.

    You also need a wider range cassette like a OneUp or Praxis if you want decent low gear range. But you can get that later.
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  53. #253
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    All I was trying to say that I am interested in the new XT groupo. 2x doesn't give me the extra options I originally imagined it would.

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek200 View Post
    Well. We may not be having the same conversation. I stated I was comparing the options available on the new XT group set. There isn't a 22/34 option. There is 30/32/34 for 1x and 11-42 in the rear. And in 2x you have 34/24, 36/26, and 38/28.
    Ah! Got it.

    Buy a Raceface crank and customize it the way you want. I'm sure other brands allow this, too.

    Reason 3,498 not to ride Shimano.
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    It was actually surprising. It seems shimano didn't design the groupo to be significantly better as 2x over 1x.... It seems they have a keen focus on the cadence impact of the shift? Maybe in a DI world these 2x setups they have give them that. But it doesn't seem to give you a huge gear option advantage. I get that the low is 15% lower. But there are only two gears lower than the comparable single option.

  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek200 View Post
    It was actually surprising. It seems shimano didn't design the groupo to be significantly better as 2x over 1x.... It seems they have a keen focus on the cadence impact of the shift? Maybe in a DI world these 2x setups they have give them that. But it doesn't seem to give you a huge gear option advantage. I get that the low is 15% lower. But there are only two gears lower than the comparable single option.
    I know Shimano has a strong focus on keeping gear changes within a certain percentage.

    But with some of these new drivetrains - it seems like they're forcing people to make serious comprimises.

    If you run a 3rd party front cog, it wont' shift as well as an end to end Shimano set up.

    I hate to be a fan boy - but grip shift works really well for front shifting!
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    With a 36/22 and the shimano cassettes (as they recommend them) you would have two lower gears and one negligible higher and one significantly higher.

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek200 View Post
    With a 36/22 and the shimano cassettes (as they recommend them) you would have two lower gears and one negligible higher and one significantly higher.
    This conversation has caused me to re-think my new bike build.

    I didn't realize Shimano had no offerings that mimick my current set up.

    I think I'm going back to grip shift on the new bike - with a customized front end to get the range I want.
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    Just put it in excel to make sure you are getting what you think u are. Sure it's a bailout but really it's only a 15% ish bailout. Not like a whole extra set of gears. Anyway. It surprised me for sure. Changed my thinking a bit.

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek200 View Post
    With a 36/22 and the shimano cassettes (as they recommend them) you would have two lower gears and one negligible higher and one significantly higher.
    Problem with 36/22 is it's a 14 tooth jump so the shifting is not great and the drop in cadence/feel just is not good.

    34/24 feels really good as one can shift under power and keep the the pedaling stroke and rhythm. And with 11-42 on the rear, that is a pretty low gear anyway. One can hang out on the big ring forever or hang around the small ring for a while too.
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    But shimano says only use the 42 in 1x

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Very deep subject. Here's a detailed page:

    Converting 2x10 to 1x10 - Mountain Bike FAQ

    For your questions:

    Do I just need to get a chainring that's a compromise...?
    A: Yes. If you have a 32 and 22 right now, maybe get a 30. Remove all the other not needed stuff.

    Do I really need a narrow wide chainring? If so then why?
    A: Yes, since they retain the chain like magic. They are truly genius. You need a clutch derailleur too. Otherwise, chain might fall occasionally. There's no derailleur or chain guide to retain the chain.

    You also need a wider range cassette like a OneUp or Praxis if you want decent low gear range. But you can get that later.
    Cool it already has a clutch derailleur. I made an error on my post. It has 36t and 22t chainrings. So that's why I was thinking of sizing to a 32t. I may check out a wider range cassette after I see how I feel on a the current cassette which is 11-36. Depending on chainring of 30-32t I should be fine climbing but worried more about long flats and downhills. Thanks for the link I'll check that out.

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    I'm not sure how this works.

  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek200 View Post
    But shimano says only use the 42 in 1x
    That is the stance they're taking for positioning those drivetrains. All my reports so far though is that the 2x works with 42. It's the same rear der.
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    True. I just assumed that the bigger ring pulled more chain than the dérailleur could handle.

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    Well. I mean the bigger ring and 42 tooth rear. Otherwise it seems odd for them to say that.

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    I'm looking forward to 11x1.

    Electronic.

    Shifts with mind control.

    And renders the rider invisible to Sierra Club types.

    ... but it would introduce another BB standard to the bike industry, so you know it will never happen...

    P

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    FWIW I regret going to 2x10 and not 1x11. At the time the 42 was not common and I had my doubts.
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    I'm running a 1x10, 32T with an 11-42 cassette. There's been a couple of climbs that I probably could have cleared with a 2 ring setup, but just couldn't push with the 32/42 - Burma Rd. on Mt. Diablo (stupidly steep), and Bayleaf Trail at Skyline (felt stupidly steep at the time, but I more blame the heat for this one!).

    Hasn't given me many problems tho, and with an XT shifter you can dump gears an get the same effect as a front shift. I feel like I've just gotten stronger because of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek200 View Post
    So - I read someone's comment that 2x doesn't really offer significant improvement in range over 1x. So being the geek that I am I took the new XT and built out what all the gears would look like for the three 1x options as well as the 3 2x options.
    It looks to me like 2x really only gets you 2 or sometimes three extra gears. And you just have to decide how to bias those two extra gears (lo or hi side). My comparison was only of new XT options. That comparison actually made me more interested in 1x11 than I was.
    Same here. I was pretty negative on 1x11 until I worked out the math and saw I was only losing the equivalent of half of my lowest gear and just over one full gear at the top end with 30x10-42 vs. my old 26/38x11-36 set up. Now that I am riding it I really like it more than expected. I almost never used the top gears anyway before, now I do but am rarely spun out when on dirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    I know Shimano has a strong focus on keeping gear changes within a certain percentage.

    But with some of these new drivetrains - it seems like they're forcing people to make serious comprimises.

    If you run a 3rd party front cog, it wont' shift as well as an end to end Shimano set up.

    I hate to be a fan boy - but grip shift works really well for front shifting!
    Hey so IHeart am I hearing you correct that you use a 10speed grip shift for your front mech?

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    I did the same. I felt most of the gear ratios were covered, or at least covered "close enough" when I reviewed them side by side on paper. My method was rudimentary but then validated by my real world riding experiences.

    1x11...I'm over it for hills-gear-range-comparison.jpg

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    Yeah. The few examples I built out in excel showed that you could get 1 lower or higher by about 15%. Or so....

  74. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    Same here. I was pretty negative on 1x11 until I worked out the math and saw I was only losing the equivalent of half of my lowest gear and just over one full gear at the top end with 30x10-42 vs. my old 26/38x11-36 set up. Now that I am riding it I really like it more than expected. I almost never used the top gears anyway before, now I do but am rarely spun out when on dirt.
    Cassettes typically gives ~15% ratio jump per gear change.
    Front chain rings with 10 tooth difference give ~30% ratio jump per chain ring change.
    (Larger jumps up to 60% exist with >14 tooth difference, but with less reliable shifting as explained by fc).

    Thus each additional chain ring effectively adds ~two rear cassette gears in terms of range improvement.
    (Larger jump chain rings exist, but with problems well described by fc in a previous post.)

    So indeed, if you go from a 10- speed cassette to 11 speed cassette, you've gained half of the extra chain ring advantage.

    This is also way with the Di2, in the 1X synchro mode and 11- speed cassette, you actually get:
    1x11 (single chain ring)
    1x13 (double chain ring)
    1x15 (triple chain ring)


    I like the 3X11 XTR system for the much wider range. I indeed have 15 gear steps with a single shifter.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  75. #275
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    Making Di2 become 1x11

    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    Another side effect is the 1x11 has made me stronger, but every ride is definitely harder work than it was before. Still, it's less to think about on rides and I really dig that.
    I agree that 1x11 has made you much stronger. We were parity in our climbs late last year, before I got 45% faster as I lost 40 lbs, and switched to the Bronson.

    Yet, we're still parity, so you must have got 45% faster as well by going to 1x11. Amazing!
    [Note: I noticed most of the speedup when you went to 1x11, but there's surely many other factors in your improvement.]

    Putting Di2 into a 1x11 single ring mode

    I did an interesting experiment yesterday, where I again rode up John Nichols Trail, but this time put my Di2 in "manual" mode, so it stayed on my 30 tooth front middle ring (same as your chain ring) and only shifts the rear. I was indeed able to climb most all of JNT except a couple spots, similar to your experience, and had to stand a few times. Not sure I was much faster, but my legs got a harder workout.

    Doing the Skyline trail at the top, going to "manual mode" (fixed 30 tooth middle ring) worked just great on that technical undulating trail. I'll probably continue to switch to that true 1x11 mode in the future on similar trails without a lot of variation.

    OTOH, I was very happy to have the lowest gears of the 3x11 when climbing certain sections, like up Sanborn trail right out of the gate with an extended 15% grade, and I had to switch to the lower chain ring at a couple short sections on the JNT if I didn't want to walk.

    In any case, my experiment demonstrated to me the good capability of a 1x11 system in practice. I still think it limits me at my lower power/weight ratio and steep hills, but the 1x11 will work fine on certain trails.
    Last edited by BigLarry; 07-19-2015 at 11:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    I'll draw the line right there! - I'd rather have a SS w/ a dropper post than a 3x11 with no dropper!

    If Obama tries to come and take my dropper from me, he'll have to pry it from my dead, cold hands!
    Well eat out a few times less, and you can have BOTH. And the calories saved will make you faster too. All around a good deal.
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  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    To each his own and I'm glad we have so many choices with high end bike parts.

    I have a hard time believing that an electronically controlled rear derailleur is less complex than a mechanical one. If that's so, why is it so much more expensive than the mechanical ones? Maybe is simplifies your riding, but the system itself is inherently more complex. Reliability is yet to be seen but unless it's bulletproof I don't see how that rear derailleur is going to stand up to rock smashing any better than it's mechanical version.

    I don't think I'll ever appreciate it until it's the same price as the mechanical stuff. I have plenty of experience with the Di2 stuff to know that it's not solving a single problem that I have. With a wide range 2x setup (22x36 with an 11-36rear) I don't need any extra gears and I can shift with my left hand and right hand very easily. I can even actuate my dropper post right after clicking into the big ring for a descent. I don't have a chain guide nor do I run a NW ring and my chain stays on just fine with a clutch derailleur.

    So what is the problem with current drivetrain options that makes the Di2 stuff worth it's weight in gold?

    And...there really is no comparison to a dropper post. My bike shifts just fine with a mechanical drivetrain but the post doesn't go up and down by itself without the dropper. Comparing an electronic dropper to a mechanical dropper might be a better analogy.
    Actually, you can drop a post instead by using a quick release. Simpler. Saves $400. Just takes longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    Really? Because we don't have Shimano shipping us product on the regular to "test" out we must not know anything? Please.

    It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. It's nothing like suspension kinematic advancements, high quality disc brakes that are cheap, strong and, lightweight, or wheel/tire tech that lets us save weight, eliminate pinch flats, and increase traction. All of those changed how I ride and added extreme levels of enjoyment to every ride. That just doesn't happen when I jump on a Di2 bike. It was great and worked flawlessly but so does all of my mechanical drivetrain stuff. It's not letting me go faster through the rough stuff or hold a line better in a corner so I can boost the big jump with zero run up.
    You ask a fair question. Let me explain what I value, even though it may not be the same for you.

    1. Wider Gearing Range
    As mentioned above, each chain ring adds ~2 more extra gear ratios. So my 3x11 has effectively a 15 gear range. From fast to super slow - I can handle about anything on one bike. I really like having the low gears for climbing Henry Coe, Tractor at Demo, the steep 15% grade out of the gate at Sanborn yesterday, and many occasions when encountering steep sections along the trails. I always have that extra gear capability ready at hand.

    2. Simpler Shifting
    Only one shifter is needed. So I effectively have a simple 1X15 gearing system. Left hand is used for my Reverb Stealth dropper post. The small 10 tooth jump on the chain rings and Di2 derailleur allow them to shift smooth and fast as well. Even nicer is that I can keep holding down the up/down shifter and the shifting will rapidly and smoothly continue through the whole range. With the small steps in gearing, I wait for the right pedal feel and release. Like a CVT for bikes.

    3. Faster Shifts
    The Di2 shifting speed can be adjusted and the medium Di2 shift speed is already much faster than manual shifting. (One can adjust the Di2 to super fast but Shimano warns the chain may get thrown occasionally.) Faster shifting helps to get in the right gear quickly in undulating terrain when you suddenly come onto a short steep section. Again, holding down the shifter can smoothly and quickly get multiple shifts right to where you want, faster than any mechanical system, keeping up your flow without finding yourself in the wrong gear.

    4. More Reliable
    The shifting is done by computer so as to go past the gear center and then come back, assuring faster and more reliable shifting. It's a delight to watch in practice. Not only is the front much faster than manual shifting, so is the rear derailleur. The derailleurs also adjust slightly with knowledge of the other gear position. So it's just fine running the large chain ring on a larger cassette gear without all the usual cross chain issues.
    The rear derailleur is very robust and built like a tank. On other threads, owners have ripped off their derailleur hanger, with no damage to the Di2 rear derailleur. And unlike mechanical derailleurs, the Di2 has multiple safe modes. For instance, you can manually set it to stay in a gear of your choice in case of a bad mechanical.
    Also, the chain tension can be adjusted much tighter with Di2 shifting over a regular derailleur, so your chain doesn't drop as you're going through rough stuff.

    5. More Capable
    The Di2 allows more gears to handle way more situations. Makes my bike more capable and versatile. And I keep finding neat tricks, like holding down the shifter for faster shifts mentioned above. Also, today I switched over to "Manual" mode that keeps the same ring up front (such as my 30 tooth middle ring) and only shift the back with my right shifter. I can change modes while on the trail with one button, to electronically make my bike instantly become a true 1x11. I found I like this mode on certain trails, and might end up using it the majority of the time. But other times, I can instantly switch back to the full gear range as needed (using just one shifter in "Synchro" mode) for those occasional situations.
    I also found the shifter Up/Down levers were opposite of my Giant Trance, which I ride when consulting in CT for two weeks/month. It was messing up my shifting each time I change bikes until my mind reprograms. But with Di2, I instead just reprogrammed the lever to match the other bike. Only took a few minutes.

    The Di2 doesn't take any more effort than a mechanical shifting system to install. Just different that will take some new learning. Instead of having cables under tension, you have to install the correct lengths of the thinner signal wires. The default settings are fine. But you can change things if desired.

    The biggest obstacle to Di2 is mostly price. But that will come down eventually. I do feel this system has many advantages that will of value to many, and become common as it trickles down to the lower priced systems. I feel the advance to shifting is similar to that of disc brakes, dropper posts, and full suspension have done in other areas. But not everyone wants those other advances, and it will surely be the same here too.

    Full use of the Di2 with 3x11 gearing has changed how I ride, and added extreme levels of enjoyment for me. I can now handle steep hills that I'd have to walk before. I'm no longer afraid of any hill that I would fear and dread before, sabotaging my enjoyment. The shifting is a simple 1x15 with one shifter. The Di2 shifts faster and gets me quickly into a gear needed to handle a sudden technical climb I can make in the right gear. And there's all the flexibility and capability of the system as well.

    [EDIT NOTE: Item 1 above is more about XTR 3x11 mechanics, rather than Di2. But Di2 requires XTR today, and the Di2 price often includes the XTR price, and Di2 makes the XTR 3x11 work better, so there's indeed some linkage. The remainder is discussing Di2 exclusively.]
    Last edited by BigLarry; 07-18-2015 at 12:23 AM.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post

    Yet, we're still parity, so you must have got 45% faster as well by going to 1x11. Amazing!
    C'mon man. A little too rosy here..

    1x11 didn't make her 45% faster . 1x11 makes you a couple percent faster. How? Cause you run out gears sooner. And when that happens, you walk or you torque your legs and your back to make it up the hill. After months, you get a little faster cause the repetitive workouts are better.

    If you go on a singlespeed, you get even faster cause the workout is even harder. Either that or it breaks your will and you stop riding.

    What made her faster is riding a lot, working hard day in day out and losing weight. Ride, rinse, repeat.

    And the experiment with keeping Di2 on the middle ring for one ride? All that says, is if you use heavier gears, it takes more effort to turn the cranks. It takes months to affect muscle development to turn the heavy gears. Also, style changes to use momentum, brake less and shift gears with the legs and not the bike.

    I know the intentions are good but I have to say something about the way you draw conclusions.
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  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    C'mon man. A little too rosy here..

    1x11 didn't make her 45% faster . 1x11 makes you a couple percent faster. How? Cause you run out gears sooner. And when that happens, you walk or you torque your legs and your back to make it up the hill. After months, you get a little faster cause the repetitive workouts are better.

    If you go on a singlespeed, you get even faster cause the workout is even harder. Either that or it breaks your will and you stop riding.

    What made her faster is riding a lot, working hard day in day out and losing weight. Ride, rinse, repeat.

    And the experiment with keeping Di2 on the middle ring for one ride? All that says, is if you use heavier gears, it takes more effort to turn the cranks. It takes months to affect muscle development to turn the heavy gears. Also, style changes to use momentum, brake less and shift gears with the legs and not the bike.

    I know the intentions are good but I have to say something about the way you draw conclusions.
    You misinterpret.

    I indeed meant that the 1x11 made her faster over the month of hard work, due to all the items you mention. Stripes claims weight loss was not one of her factors, but there could well have been some conversion to muscle. Might be other factors too, like maybe she got 10%-20% faster last year with a change to her Ibis HD that I didn't notice as much till now.

    I agree I didn't get much advantage by using 1x11 for one day. As I said, I don't think it made me faster. But I had fun trying it. I plan to use 1x11 more often though, and see how it works. The advantage may not be so much to improve my strength, although that might happen a little, but rather to just be smoother and a little faster with only the rear derailleur shifting. I did the "Manual" 1x11 mode again today on some creek side trails with short up/down and really liked that mode for those type of trails.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  80. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLarry View Post
    Actually, you can drop a post instead by using a quick release. Simpler. Saves $400. Just takes longer.


    You ask a fair question. Let me explain what I value, even though it may not be the same for you.

    ...
    Your points are sound. Great job.

    Di2 is the finest shifting system made to date. It is so complicated to design, build, configure, install... but when you use it day in and day out, it is the simplest thing ever. You push one button to go lighter, another to go heavier. Charge the battery about a couple times a year.

    Shift once, twice or 15 times at one button push. It will run through the gears if you keep the button pushed.

    It shift matches, auto trims and prevents cross-chaining. I don't know what that all means but if you do, know that it does it. When you drop the front ring, it will upshift the rear to rev match. When you go through the rear cluster, it will trim the front to prevent rubbing.

    Der cables suck and are dead to Di2. Derailleur cables are the worst parts of the bike since they don't like bends, dust, water, snow, wear. Di2 uses a bulletproof wire with a connector that will work the same a few years later.

    It gets rid of the front shifter. And it opens the door to better right shifters. Currently, Di2 shfters are designed to mimic mechanical shifters. Soon, they will be way more ergonomic and less effort.

    Di2 makes 2x cool and it makes 3x workable. It doesn't do much for 1x.

    With all that, is it worth the money? Right now, only if you are rich and only if you are an endurance rider/racer who does hundreds of shifts a day. Otherwise, wait for XT.
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  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalinas View Post
    Hey so IHeart am I hearing you correct that you use a 10speed grip shift for your front mech?
    It's a standard grip shift for the front. They have 10 indents, so you can micro adjust.
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  82. #282
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    Good summary fc.


    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    ..Di2 makes 2x cool and it makes 3x workable. It doesn't do much for 1x...
    One more thing on this point. The 3X crank (or "Chainset") only costs slightly more than the 2X. $408 versus $387 at Evans right now. So not much downside to the 3X versus 2X with Di2, and it adds a couple more gears.
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Your points are sound. Great job.

    Di2 is the finest shifting system made to date. It is so complicated to design, build, configure, install... but when you use it day in and day out, it is the simplest thing ever. You push one button to go lighter, another to go heavier. Charge the battery about a couple times a year.

    Shift once, twice or 15 times at one button push. It will run through the gears if you keep the button pushed.

    It shift matches, auto trims and prevents cross-chaining. I don't know what that all means but if you do, know that it does it. When you drop the front ring, it will upshift the rear to rev match. When you go through the rear cluster, it will trim the front to prevent rubbing.

    Der cables suck and are dead to Di2. Derailleur cables are the worst parts of the bike since they don't like bends, dust, water, snow, wear. Di2 uses a bulletproof wire with a connector that will work the same a few years later.

    It gets rid of the front shifter. And it opens the door to better right shifters. Currently, Di2 shfters are designed to mimic mechanical shifters. Soon, they will be way more ergonomic and less effort.

    Di2 makes 2x cool and it makes 3x workable. It doesn't do much for 1x.

    With all that, is it worth the money? Right now, only if you are rich and only if you are an endurance rider/racer who does hundreds of shifts a day. Otherwise, wait for XT.
    Larry, officially a "rich guy". Congrats!!!

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayareamtnbiker View Post
    Larry, officially a "rich guy". Congrats!!!
    Wow didn't know that. Wonder if I should tell my wife.

    But don't I also have to be an endurance rider/racer with hundreds of shift to day in order to be worthy? Hmm. I don't race. But I do ride every day up to 4 hours, and hundreds of shifts/day. So maybe I qualify that way?
    It's not slow, it's doing more MTB time.

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayareamtnbiker View Post
    Larry, officially a "rich guy". Congrats!!!
    Makin it rain...
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  86. #286
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    There is something to be said for versatility

    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    Now with the large Praxis cassette available I bet most 1x10 riders that want more range will just buy the Praxis cassette and save a bunch of coin and get a killer product. They solved a problem that existed without the rider having to buy all new components. That's a solid engineering decision made by riders instead of fat finance people.
    .
    And with a 24/38 front chainring set up, I can ride anything, anywhere, for hours on end, using the same wheels/hubs/chains [and in some cases deraileurs] on my disc CX bike and 29ers - much to the chagrin of those that would attempt to sell me more expensive and specialized components.

    There is something to be said for versatility. It's great to be able to use many of the same components across platforms.

    Cynical component manufacturers make there profit on the "churn" of constantly changing the bolt circles of chainrings, number of cassette speeds, hub spacing, etc., etc., There need to be more "critical voices" within and outside of the industry, such as Beaverbiker's, calling it the greedy farce it is
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    With xD driver there are now 9t and 10t for top end and 42t for low end. Pair this with a 32t front and you have the entire range covered. The main issue is 11t small on rear.....no Bueno for top end. I don't buy the "don't miss it" bs, neither should you.

  88. #288
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    I'm happily running a road RD and FD with 11-28 cassette and 22/38 rings on a 26er FS frame, 29er front. Plenty of range on both ends...and is actually same weight or lighter than a 1x11 setup.


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    Since I only ride in the southeast, 1x11 works perfect. Think maybe/possibly if I lived out west I'd want different gearing, but maybe not?

  90. #290
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    I ride mostly on the beach and 22-11/32 works fine. Cruising at 9-10 mph takes serious energy and it's rare to go faster. But there are those MUP trails where rolling faster would be nice and logging roads where you'll gain 1000-1200 feet in 3 miles with short pitches well over 10% on loose gravel, then you get up on a plateau where it'd be nice to get more speed on the rolling up/down/up grades. I really like the idea of adding another ring and finger shifting. Thanks for the discussion!

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    Since the thread is named 1x11 I stayed with that topic. Until Shimano offers a 10t-4x cassette they're out of the game..... 11t-4x is severely limited for top end speed.

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyDuck View Post
    Since the thread is named 1x11 I stayed with that topic. Until Shimano offers a 10t-4x cassette they're out of the game..... 11t-4x is severely limited for top end speed.
    In my experience with a lot of 1x11 riders, if gears are missed, it's low gears. High gears are rarely missed and that 10 tooth cog is rarely used. It feels awful anyway. And the jump from 12 to 10 is just harsh.

    fc
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  93. #293
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    1x11...I think I'm over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    And the jump from 12 to 10 is just harsh.
    fc
    Another reason to go with road cassette as well as RD and FD. The micro shifting is amazing when cruising at high speed and the cassette is used much more evenly. 11-28 / 22-38 is perfect for 26ers...and I would go 11-32 (with a road medium cage RD) / 22-36 on 29er...not sure about this last one...would need to thrown the numbers on the Sheldon Brown calculator:
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/


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  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    In my experience with a lot of 1x11 riders, if gears are missed, it's low gears. High gears are rarely missed and that 10 tooth cog is rarely used. It feels awful anyway. And the jump from 12 to 10 is just harsh.

    fc
    With the 42t and 45t rear add-ons the low end seems covered. 30t or 32t front with a 4x rear...

  95. #295
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    1x11 with a 28T chainring on my 29er is perfect for Colorado. I am not a cross country racer; just a guy out having fun on the trails here. I like the 1x setup so much that I converted my Pivot Mach 5.7 to a 1x10 with a 30T chainring. No need to change. Simple and reliable (with the exception of the shitty XT clutch internals that don't seem to be too durable). SRAM from now on for me.

  96. #296
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    here is what I've stated using a Road setup. Comparing both 26er and 29er with two different combinations of road cassettes.

    11-32 / 22-36 for 29ers is actually better than I thought! excellent numbers for Low and High speed


  97. #297
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    I'm happy with the 3x9 on my hardtail, call me a Luddite but disk brakes and carbon fiber are the upgrades I have chosen. 1x has too little range. 2x splits my riding between 2 front sprockets - back and forth, back and forth. 3x puts me in the center chain ring for most of my riding with just the occasional purposeful change to a high or low range.

  98. #298
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    I could see that. I go up and down including some steep stuff all day and have stuck with 3x. I'd love the simplicity of 1x if there was better range and faster shifting up and down 11 cogs.

  99. #299
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    Is this a good time to ask for help with a 2x derailleur? Need to find one for my Spearfish.

    '11 Spearfish front der help
    Last edited by JMac47; 07-19-2015 at 11:10 PM. Reason: more info
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  100. #300
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    I think the main reason people go 1x is simplicity. People have been doing it for awhile, at least 9 speed in my case.
    I must admit reading this thread that there has been a lot comments about the 10 tooth. I couldn't tell you what the smallest cog tooth was on my last 6 cassettes! But I sure know what the largest was. I used to ride downhill almost exclusively, now rarely, up to go down. However with a 32 and 11 any time I get close to spinning out I sit and coast.
    The slightly cleaner bar, space for my dropper, and the peace. My bike is so quiet now. However I certainly noticed the lack of range (low) in my first race with a 34 tooth on the front, now with a 32 and I can climb everything I used to sit in granny and spin up.

    I think one thing that hasn't been mentioned too much is the difference it can make to new riders. My partner rides an old Enduro of mine, I resisted being that guy in regards to chainline with a triple. So took them all off, replaced them with a 30t and now it's simpler, she hasn't noticed the reduction and range. And her bike is so silent.

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