• 04-30-2012
    GL1
    XT-XTR BR-M785 Warranty Brake Leaking Issue
    Hi All,

    So I thought I'd post as a Public Service Announcement.

    I have the new design 2011 XT Trail Brakes. First and foremost, let me just say they are the BEST brakes I've ever ridden hands down. So, don't let this post deter you from purchasing a truly great product at what I think is a good value.

    But, after wrestling with an issue on my front brake for a few weeks and consulting with one of the best LBS's here in CO I finally have an answer.

    It appears that LBS's are beginning to see a common leakage issue with these brakes in the factory lines. The leak takes place right above the banjo nut where the fitting intersects the line itself (left side of the caliper) and trace amounts of mineral oil get down onto the pads/rotor. Apparently this is becoming "known" so check yours if you're having issues. I am getting a new hose warranty etc... I'll explain more below.

    As far as symtoms, I had a noticeable loss of power (because oil was on the pads/rotors). It was even to the point of my being able to push the bike with the front brake on hard. But, this went away if I used them on an extended downhill because it burned the oil off and then the power would increase again. You can also have howling and noise although I didn't have too much of that. The giveaway is that if you ride in dusty conditions like I do, you will see the dirt gather on the oil all over the caliper. Compared to my rear brake (that does not yet have this issue) it was easy to see the difference. Of course the final thing is that you will get some air in your line which I also notices when I tipped the bike upside down or on the back wheel and back down (the lever went nearly to the grip but "pumped" up again once the bike was again level.

    So anyway, I think I saw a post on this awhile back. I'd be interested to hear if others have had this issue. Again, I think the brakes themselves are OUTSTANDING and for me, Shimano is standing by this and giving me new lines etc. I am assuming the LBS will also get reimbursed for the subsequent bleed oil/labor from Shimano as well. The only component I'm not sure on is the pads. They did get mineral oil on them and I have heard that can damage them. We will see what happens but at $45 a pop I wouldn't mind a warranty pair of those as well.

    Let me know if you have had or heard of this issue as well. :thumbsup:
  • 04-30-2012
    baltik
    Helpful post thank you, I guess the next question is whether Shimano has redesigned the hose and if Jagwire or others offer a good aftermarket alternative
  • 04-30-2012
    GL1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by baltik View Post
    Helpful post thank you, I guess the next question is whether Shimano has redesigned the hose and if Jagwire or others offer a good aftermarket alternative

    Yeah, I hope whatever they give me for a warranty is a redesigned one. I just saw another post on these and this banjo nut leak issue has been experienced by others on the XT's and XTR's. I'll have to watch my rear one as well.

    The jagwire has mixed reviews but it does come in an array of colors. I don't know if they have a different banjo nut that comes with them and/or whether that would be better. The Shimano hose itself seems to get good reviews less this banjo bolt leakage issue.

    I would be interested to know whether anyone makes stainless braided cables for these. If so they would probably be $$$. A quick search found one UK company...HEL Performance Mountain Bike Brake Line Kits
  • 04-30-2012
    JayMac
    The same thing happened to me. Both front and rear were leaking where the hose went into the fitting. My LBS quick fix was to heat up the pads, scuff the rotors and crazy glue the line at the leek to keep them from seeping and saturating the pads again. Here is my problem...they tell me Shimano refuses to believe there is a problem with the brakes. So now I have $400 worth of brakes that make noise, dont stop worth a damn and need hoses and pads replaced. Its been a week on Friday, gonna call them tomorrow and see whats up. If not, then Shimano gets the call from me.
  • 04-30-2012
    GL1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JayMac View Post
    The same thing happened to me. Both front and rear were leaking where the hose went into the fitting. My LBS quick fix was to heat up the pads, scuff the rotors and crazy glue the line at the leek to keep them from seeping and saturating the pads again. Here is my problem...they tell me Shimano refuses to believe there is a problem with the brakes. So now I have $400 worth of brakes that make noise, dont stop worth a damn and need hoses and pads replaced. Its been a week on Friday, gonna call them tomorrow and see whats up. If not, then Shimano gets the call from me.

    Well, keep on it for sure and let your LBS call the reps. It sounded to me from my LBS guys that Shimano is beginning to acknowledge the problem and it sounds legitimate based on what you see on other threads on this forum.

    I also thought about some ways to do a "quick fix" but apparently they are getting my warranty line in a few days. I can still ride on mine and it actually works good on long DH's when the rotors get hot and the mineral oil burns off. Mine is not leaking like crazy either...but enough.

    Anyway, despite all this I still have to say that they are awesome brakes. Shimano may just need to address this issue and make it right. Funny how the smallest link (banjo nut fitting) can mess with an otherwise amazing system.
  • 05-01-2012
    avbcon12
    As stated, this is a known issue at shimano and if the dealer calls them they will send out a replacement, provided you send in your leaking one. I called our rep and got it all taken care of, including pads. The hose and fitting look exactly the same, i was told it was an issue with the crimping machine using not enough force and all has been remedied now.
  • 05-01-2012
    zuuds
    My rear M785 brake started leaking at the banjo / hose junction. I bought mine from treefort bikes, they got me a RA# and I sent it back to Shimano. I asked if I could just send in the line since the lever and caliper were fine, but I had to send in the whole thing. My replacement is on its way to me in the mail. No issues with my front brake (knock on wood), but I'll be watching the hose like a hawk.
  • 05-01-2012
    zuuds
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by avbcon12 View Post
    As stated, this is a known issue at shimano and if the dealer calls them they will send out a replacement, provided you send in your leaking one. I called our rep and got it all taken care of, including pads. The hose and fitting look exactly the same, i was told it was an issue with the crimping machine using not enough force and all has been remedied now.

    Everyone knows when it comes to ho(ses) that crimpin' ain't easy...
  • 05-01-2012
    MTB Pilot
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JayMac View Post
    The same thing happened to me. Both front and rear were leaking where the hose went into the fitting. My LBS quick fix was to heat up the pads, scuff the rotors and crazy glue the line at the leek to keep them from seeping and saturating the pads again. Here is my problem...they tell me Shimano refuses to believe there is a problem with the brakes. So now I have $400 worth of brakes that make noise, dont stop worth a damn and need hoses and pads replaced. Its been a week on Friday, gonna call them tomorrow and see whats up. If not, then Shimano gets the call from me.

    WOW!! Your LBS SUCKS!!:eekster: I'd be on the phone with Shimano yesterday.

    I just had this issue on Saturday with my rear brake and it pissed all the oil out during the last 3-4 miles of my ride. Luckily I have two sets and was able to use one off another bike, but my LBS called Shimano and got a new hose and pads coming under warranty. Shimano knows about the issue, and doesn't have a problem doing the right thing. \\ Wonderful brakes otherwise!!:thumbsup:

    MTBP
  • 05-01-2012
    FD5046
    Have the same problem with both m XTR brakes. Thank you very much for the info!
  • 05-03-2012
    RockyMt
    My M775's leaked at the front outside piston.

    Shimano replaced with M785's.
  • 05-07-2012
    GL1
    Follow Up
    Wanted to post a follow up on my warranty issue.

    So Shimano is sending me a new line, new pads, and apparently a new ICE tech rotor! Oh, and taking care of the labor I believe as well but not 100% sure on that yet.

    My LBS really came through for me and Shimano apparently agrees that once a brake has this issue and mineral oil gets on the pads and rotor, all those components need to be replaced. So, that was a nice surprise. I didn't know the rotor was included...and it was an ICE Tech at that...so between that and the pads there's some $$$ there in this warranty.

    Anyway, everything is on it's way so hopefully I'll get this resolved in the next week or so. Since this causes such an issue when the failure occurs I am thinking about proactively changing the rear brake line...or maybe I'll just wait and see if it develops an issue and then take it in for warranty as well IF that happens. I haven't decided yet.

    Anyway, a kudos to my LBS, Wheat Ridge Cyclery in CO here for taking care of me like they always do. Support your LBS. I don't buy everything at the LBS due to lower prices online but I do make an honest attempt to give them business in both service and parts...even sometimes when it's a few bucks more. Also, thanks to Shimano for making things right and standing behind their product.

    And as I've said along and will continue to say...even after this these are the BEST brakes I have ever ridden!
  • 05-10-2012
    zuuds
    I just got my new warranty replacement rear brakeset from Treefort. I mounted it up, and everything's looking good after a few rides, no sign of leakage at the banjo. I noticed that the crimp lines on the new brake line look more defined than the ones on my front brake line. I'll be keeping a very close eye on both banjo fittings.
  • 05-11-2012
    jabrabu
    I'm having a lot of the same symptoms with a rear XT brake. It has been squealing and has a loss of power. After storing the bike upside down for a few days, the lever would bottom out on the handlebars, but then pumped back up after many pumps. I'll have to take a closer look at the banjo fitting and see if the there is leakage there.

    Has anyone called Shimano directly instead of working through a dealer?
  • 05-11-2012
    andy.l
    Just fitted these myself,but as id started seeing reports on different forums regarding the hose leaks I bought the components seperately and opted to fit Jagwire Hy-Flow lines instead. But I had leakage from the lever end as Jagwires supplied Olives werent holding the hose correctly,my LBS corrected this and I think that they used the Shimano olives on the Jagwire hose,so far no leaks and great braking.
  • 05-11-2012
    fuenstock
    I've also been running Jagwire hi flow hose on my front and rear xtr trail brakes for several months with out issue. Great brakes now that they are working right. Both my front and rear shimano hose's leaked right form the start.
  • 05-12-2012
    GL1
    1 Attachment(s)
    Still waiting..
    I'm still waiting for my parts from Shimano...hopefully next week.

    In the mean time, I put super glue around the banjo nut...seems to help. Temporary fix.

    See pic...
  • 05-12-2012
    GL1
    Yep
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jabrabu View Post
    I'm having a lot of the same symptoms with a rear XT brake. It has been squealing and has a loss of power. After storing the bike upside down for a few days, the lever would bottom out on the handlebars, but then pumped back up after many pumps. I'll have to take a closer look at the banjo fitting and see if the there is leakage there.

    Has anyone called Shimano directly instead of working through a dealer?

    Sounds like a classic case of this and you've got air in the line for sure now if your lever is doing that. You can ride it but it's not great. Check that banjo nut. It's a slight leak...more like a seep but typically if you have a thin layer dust on the caliper and lines you can see it.
  • 05-12-2012
    WHALENARD
    awe...man. I want to get a set of these but is worth the hassle.....?
  • 05-12-2012
    avbcon12
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by big JC View Post
    awe...man. I want to get a set of these but is worth the hassle.....?

    There really isnt any hassle, not everyone is having this issue and if you do shimano fixes it.

    :cool:
  • 05-16-2012
    rgeniec
    Same issue with me on front and rear. The front drips onto rotor. The rear still leaks but drips on the underside of the caliper and has not infected the pads yet. I see a dust sludge trail like the front. Getting both replaced under warranty hopefully. I will let u know the results soon.
  • 05-16-2012
    charlesinoc
    How do I request for warranty repair if you did a self install? Anyone have an experience.

    Thank you for posting this information, very helpful.
  • 05-16-2012
    007
    Has anyone tried retrofitting the new XT/XTR's with braided lines?
  • 05-17-2012
    PissedOffCil
    Ended up having the leaking front hose, I epoxied it because I have a race this weekend. I might end up replacing it in the long run for Jagwire Hyflow or Goodridge lines since I doubt Shimano will replace the brakes since I bought them over Ebay. I also have a leak of my rear brake but at the lever this time... I wonder if the seals might have been damaged when riding in freezing temps this winter. Anyhow, bad situation before a race! At least they stop enough for me to race this weekend.
  • 05-17-2012
    fuenstock
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    I might end up replacing it in the long run for Jagwire Hyflow or Goodridge lines since I doubt Shimano will replace the brakes since I bought them over Ebay..

    I replaced my front and rear leaking shimano hose with Jagwire hyflow and has been leak free since. I didn't want to try shimano hose again because I had heard of people getting replacment shimano hose and have it leak again. Heres a picture of the jagwire hyflow setup.

    http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/t...k/afce21bc.jpg