Results 1 to 37 of 37
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80

    XT brake Squeak: no motion

    I just brought home a Trance X0 29er and noticed that the front brake squeaks when pulling it in with no motion of the wheel. Is this something normal or should I dig in?

    Video

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    I think I figured it out, see pic below:

    Brake pad is only biting very little, Hmm should check the mounting. And should I be getting a new pad on my one day old bike with only 3000 feet or riding?



    Look at the spacers? Too many?


    Not much bite into the disc



    rear does not have any spacers:


    and the rear has a lot more bite:

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    265
    Yes, there should be no spacers used.. id take them off and mount the caliper directly to the adaptor..spin the tire and make sure the rotor isn't rubbing the caliper , and where it contacts the rotor and go from there..for my bike,i had to add a small thin washer to pull my caliper away from my rotor---but once dialed- the pads hit perfectly..

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    Ah!!!!!

    The adapter is on upside down! The larger spacer end goes up, it even has an arrow for orientation.


    I consider this to be a pretty bad mistake, this is the brakes we are talking about. And then the person put extra washers to space it, not good. Does the bike store put on the brake or Giant?

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    265
    Who knows who put it on--as least you now have it sorted and can make sure it's on correctly ...if it was my me, id take the pads into the bike shop-tell them what happened and ask them for a new set of pads on the house..make sure they are the same type of pads that came with the brakes..some xt's come with resin pads and some(like my xt) come with the metallic pads..you'll want the pads to be the same so they are balanced in feel..

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    I still have a little more playing to do, as I am getting a little rubbing from the edge of the calipher (rotor is not centered). I need to take a look at the directions for mounting. I thought you have the bolts loose and apply gently pressure to the brake then tighten but that is resulting in rubbing on the edge.

    I am not sure about the directions to apply pressure as it seems like only one side of the piston pushes out and the other is fixed? I made the rotor centered by eye but I still hear rubbing maybe just rotor on pad which would be OK.

    I did just use some sandpaper on a flat surface to get rid of the berm on the pad, the shop is like 45 minutes away and not worth the trip for new ones.

    Oh one more note the white spacers do belong in the system just up against the head of the bolt not as something to move caliper further out but to allow for mounting movement.
    Last edited by j__h; 10-13-2012 at 02:32 AM.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    265
    -Best way i found is to just adjust them by eyesight..turn the bike over so you can see the pads and rotor well-- lightly loosen the bolts so they are holding the caliper in place but you can move it slightly... get one side aligned, then tighten the bolt a bit..then align the other side and tighten that side a bit..this should be pretty close.. spin the tire-- any rub? If not then tighten the bolts up more--of there is some rubbing--loosen and readjust...you'll get it pretty quickly..

    As for the spacers== they come with the adaptor package but i never use them.. your rear is how i have mine..

    Also, make sure your rotor is straight..they often times come slightly out of round out of the package,,and can drive ya nuts trying to align the rotor without any rub..
    Last edited by SB Trails; 10-13-2012 at 02:42 AM.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    Yeah the rotor seems straight, the rubbing I hear is consistent and the rotor does not look to wobble or move from center of the caliper when spinning. It just seems like it is rubbing on the pad now that I have set the rotor to center by eye.

  9. #9
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    19,950
    Dude, take the bike back to the shop you got it from and VERY politely ask them what hack assembled it, cause they don't have a fvcking clue what they're doing. They owe you new pads and they should deal with installing and adjusting the brakes, but honestly after seeing that I wouldn't trust them, maybe look for another Giant dealer with more competent staff. Go visit the Park Tool Co. Park Tool Co. web site and look up installing and aligning disc brakes.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    I went to a local shop and picked up some new pads, the price ($18) is cheaper than the gas for me to get back to the giant dealer.

    Centering rotor by squeezing pads resulted in rubbing, you can look at the pads and see that there was no clearance on one side. I then did it by sight until I had clearance on both sides. There was some very minimal rubbing at one point in the rotation from a very slightly off true rotor. I bent it a little with my hand and a cloth and it is almost entirely gone, I am happy with the amount it is so little and not worth worrying about.

    The last thing I am wondering is it seems that the brakes have very little clearance on either side when you release the lever, thus making it difficult to have them not rub. Is this tunable or is it a set characteristic?

  11. #11
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    19,950
    There are Reach and Pad contact adjustments AFAIK, but no personal experience with the actual brakes, so not sure how great they work, but from reports 'sposed to work good and easy to adjust. Do a search on here, fairly sure that it's been covered and also check YouTube, did a rough search, didn't watch any, but give these a shot, see if they help any https://www.google.com/search?q=adju...w=1461&bih=953
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  12. #12
    Chamois Dropper
    Reputation: natzx7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    772
    I would go over that bike with a fine tooth comb. Whoever assembled that bike hasn't a clue.... You could get hurt. Here's a pic.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails XT brake Squeak: no motion-036.jpg  

    2008 GT Force
    Go Veg

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    Yup, that is how I have it now.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kiwiplague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,452
    The bike shop appears to have used some CPS washers from an Avid brake, not exactly needed with XT brakes. The grey domed washers are likely to be causing the issues with the caliper not aligning correctly. It also looks like they used those washers as they have used too long a bolt for attaching your caliper to the brake mount. I'd ask the LBS for the correct bolts and flat washers from Shimano, which will probably solve the alignment issue.
    I'd agree with the other posters here in that your LBS are a bunch of clowns for assembling the brake like that.
    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    I think that how I have it (and how natzx7 has it in pic) is correct.

    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830772089.pdf

    lower left in the document with adapter.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kiwiplague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,452
    Here is how the brakes should look - as you can see, there is just a flat washer under each bolt head, nothing else like what you have mounted on your adaptor.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails XT brake Squeak: no motion-csc_0311-large-.jpg  

    XT brake Squeak: no motion-csc_0310-large-.jpg  

    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    Hmm, I still think I am right. But if you prove me wrong I will be grateful and fix my setup.

    What do you think of this one?

    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830667774.PDF

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    207
    What size rotor do you have on the front? It looks like you have a post mount fork. With a 160mm rotor, you shouldn't need any adapters afaik.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    My bike is a Trance x0 29er and has a 180mm up front.


    Trance X 29er 0 (2013) - Bikes | Giant Bicycles | United States

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    207
    If you followed that tech doc, you should be good to go. I'd still go back to where you bought the bike to let them know how big an eff up that was.

  21. #21
    DGB
    DGB is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    464
    As has been said above, if you follow that Shimano doc you're right. That's what I have with my setup for the last few years and I have had zero issues.

    I'd definitely get back onto the shop who sold you this bike and give them a piece of your mind. That's very, very poor for a new bike and potentially very dangerous.

  22. #22
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    19,950
    As has been reiterated several times, you need to call at least if not better yet go back to the shop and let them know how shoddily your bike was assembled and seriously go over the entire bike and make sure there's no other fvck ups like this.

    All this being said, I know that bikes come slightly disassembled with front brake off when they ship to the shops, so if by chance you happened to be in a rush and told them you could put it together yourself, you've luckily learned a lesson the easy way and were not injured.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    9
    Bad shop builds are one of the main reasons I learned how to wrench my own bikes. A few years ago I picked up a bike that had close to a half inch clerance between the top of the big chainring and the derailleur (not the 1-2mm specified for proper shifting).

    It sounds like you got things working, but as others suggested, I would go over the rest of the bike. Or have a mechanic you trust go over it. And politely let the shop you got it from know the condition the bike was in when they sold it to you.

    Honestly, I don't think you should be covering the cost of new pads.
    Last edited by VeloZombie; 10-14-2012 at 10:32 AM. Reason: spelling

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    As has been reiterated several times, you need to call at least if not better yet go back to the shop and let them know how shoddily your bike was assembled and seriously go over the entire bike and make sure there's no other fvck ups like this.

    All this being said, I know that bikes come slightly disassembled with front brake off when they ship to the shops, so if by chance you happened to be in a rush and told them you could put it together yourself, you've luckily learned a lesson the easy way and were not injured.


    I have the shop owners email and I emailed a kindly worded email about it, I did not put it together myself this was how it came from the shop.

    Here is the email I sent yesterday in the morning but nothing back yet:

    Hey XXXX,

    I just wanted to bring something to your attention, I have it fixed now but I think that this is something to look out for in the future.

    I noticed some creaking from the front brake when pulling the lever without the bike in motion. So I took out the pad to see if anything was the matter. I found that the pad had very little bite on the rotor and had dug a groove. I then looked at the mounting and noticed that the adapter for 180mm rotor was on upside down and that the spacers with a radius to allow for motion were placed incorrectly (so that the rotor did not hit the caliper with an upside down adapter).

    attaching some pics and the link is the tech doc for proper assembly.

    Thanks,
    XXXX


    I also agree I should not have to pay but the gas cost to get the the Giant dealer would be more than the cost of the pads.


    I rode it today and the front brake is super sensitive, I need to get used to it.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Reign2Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    281
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiplague View Post
    The bike shop appears to have used some CPS washers from an Avid brake, not exactly needed with XT brakes. The grey domed washers are likely to be causing the issues with the caliper not aligning correctly.
    The XT 785 brakes come with those "CPS" washers as you get another range of movement from them but they can be a hassle when setting up. Although they go on the outside of course. I ditched them for some flat washers, all good.

    Upside down adapter.... For god's sake, it even has a big arrow on it. Sounds like some quality control on bike builds needed in that shop.
    Last edited by Reign2Rider; 10-14-2012 at 08:47 PM.

  26. #26
    29er
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    859
    should not have any extra washers
    only the black washer that is permanently on the bolt

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan GSR View Post
    should not have any extra washers
    only the black washer that is permanently on the bolt

    From what I can tell from the tech docs the extra washers are supposed to be there. Also it looks like they come with the adapter.


    look at the lower left:



    This is the adpater:



    look in the right of the package:

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kiwiplague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,452
    Quote Originally Posted by Reign2Rider View Post
    The XT 785 brakes come with those "CPS" washers as you get another range of movement from them but they can be a hassle when setting up. Although they go on the outside of course. I ditched them for some flat washers, all good.

    Upside down adapter.... For god's sake, it even has a big arrow on it. Sounds like some quality control on bike builds needed in that shop.
    I'd never seen those on any Shimano brake system before, how long have they been using them? Although, given that flat washers seem to work quite well 99% of the time, I'm surprised they saw fit to start doing washers like that.

    Also OP, that email is very well written, it will be interesting to see the response you get from the bike shop.
    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

  29. #29
    MTB B'dos
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    19,950
    NM, check Perths post, exactly correct, need to let the brain wake up before I go posting in the AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiplague View Post
    I'd never seen those on any Shimano brake system before, how long have they been using them? Although, given that flat washers seem to work quite well 99% of the time, I'm surprised they saw fit to start doing washers like that.

    Also OP, that email is very well written, it will be interesting to see the response you get from the bike shop.
    Last edited by LyNx; 10-15-2012 at 06:01 AM. Reason: Brain fart, need to wake up properly before posting.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
    My Phantom pics

  30. #30
    DGB
    DGB is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    464
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiplague View Post
    I'd never seen those on any Shimano brake system before, how long have they been using them? Although, given that flat washers seem to work quite well 99% of the time, I'm surprised they saw fit to start doing washers like that.

    Also OP, that email is very well written, it will be interesting to see the response you get from the bike shop.
    Shimano changed their front 180mm Post mount adapters some time ago from a version that had 4 separate bolt holes

    to this new version where you only need 2 bolts to hold it all together.


    I presume those CPS-type washers are there to allow for situations where you may need to adjust the spacing/alignment slightly.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PerthMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    598
    Whoever originally set that bike up is a conplete muppet, but there's also some advice on here that's off the mark.

    So, just to set the record straight - when using the particular adapter the OP has on the front, which is a SM-MA-F180P/P2, those cup washers are there for a good reason, and its not about adjustability. They are necessary because the bolts wouldn't seat flat against the caliper otherwise, as the larger offset of the adapter at the top than bottom puts the caliper at an angle compared to the plane of the bolts. In fact you can see this illustrated nicely in natzx7's photo, just look at that bottom bolt - if those cup washers weren't there there's no way that bolt would sit flat against the caliper (at least not without putting lateral strain on the bolt and/or post thread).



    However, the LBS did install the adapter upside down, and incorrectly fitted the cup washers under the caliper instead of above it, and natzx7's photos have it right.

    Kiwiplague, you have a different type of adapter, one which achieves the spacing of a larger rotor by offsetting the caliper in a different way. This type has separate bolts for mounting the caliper to adapter and adapter to frame - and keeps the caliper in the correct plane relative to the bolts, so doesn't need cup washers, and simply uses a bolt with a captive flat washer.

    So, for the adapter the OP has on the front, the cup washers are necessary and correct. For the direct post mount on the rear, the flat washers are correct.
    Last edited by PerthMTB; 10-15-2012 at 05:38 AM.

  32. #32
    29er
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    859
    looks right according to the docs, my XTs have no such washers

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PerthMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    598
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan GSR View Post
    looks right according to the docs, my XTs have no such washers
    How are your calipers attached to the frame Dan? Whether you will have cup washers or not entirely depends on the adapter you are using.

    If you have the 'new style' SM-MA-F180P/P2 adapter, which the OP does, and looks like this -





    Then it will have come with the cup washers, and you should instal them like this -





    However, this particular adapter is the only one that needs the cup washers, so if you have one of the many other types of Shimano adapter like these -





    ... then you don't need cup washers.

    You also don't need cup washers if your caliper is mounted direct to the frame mounts without the use of an adapter, like this -





    As a rule of thumb, if Shimano have provided cup washers with your adapter - use them, if not then don't!
    Last edited by PerthMTB; 10-15-2012 at 07:04 PM.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Reign2Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    281
    Yep I guess they came with the adapter and not the brakes, doh, sorry.

    I'm gonna dig mine out again as the pic cpl of posts above shows why they are needed. I didnt notice any trouble just using washers mind you. Im off to have a look right now!

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    80
    I have not even heard anything back from the shop owner from the email.

    /Rant on/

    All in all pretty bad experience, in addition to this issue they were not able to source the olive and insert so they could internally route the rear brake. I had to get one from another bike shop and deliver it. Then they forgot to put back the zerk cap for bleeding the rear brake. Also bolts on the downtube to route the rear brake line if routed externally were removed leaving holes for mud, i replaced them with nylon bolts. They also placed the lever for the dropper seat on the wrong side of the shifter.

    /rant off/

  36. #36
    wyrd bi ful rd
    Reputation: chinaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,725
    Do those fancy washers help?

    I have had mine for so long with these and they work ...
    XT brake Squeak: no motion-20080830-helius-am-rotor-01-front-n-caliper-forum.jpg

    I guess the new adaptors save you the extra weight of 2 screws ...

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by j__h View Post
    I have not even heard anything back from the shop owner from the email.

    /Rant on/

    All in all pretty bad experience, in addition to this issue they were not able to source the olive and insert so they could internally route the rear brake. I had to get one from another bike shop and deliver it. Then they forgot to put back the zerk cap for bleeding the rear brake. Also bolts on the downtube to route the rear brake line if routed externally were removed leaving holes for mud, i replaced them with nylon bolts. They also placed the lever for the dropper seat on the wrong side of the shifter.

    /rant off/
    Your experience is not unique here. Very important to go over a bike you pick up with a fine tooth comb and make sure everything is 100%. It is really shameful that the shop owner is not stepping up here and making things right.

    What is really terrible about this is that many people are not capable or knowledgable about bikes to find and fix these issues. Accidents waiting to happen.

    Good luck with this.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •