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  1. #1
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    why do people still use avid brakes?

    it started with the juicies', and now we have the elixirs. for the last 6 years people have been reporting the turkey warble, the sticky pistons and the rubbing.
    i now here the 2012 avid xx is much better than the 2011 xx. a top of the line brake, which cost a lot of money, and they are still fixing it's problems, year after year?

    i think its time to except the fact that avid are not that good at making mtb hydraulic disc brakes. no shame in it. they've been trying hard for the past several years, always coming up with an inconsistent product, with the same problems keep showing up year after year.

    why do people keep buying them? paying money for an inferior product when there are many good alternatives is crazy in my book.

    (i worked as a wrench and never had the misfortune of owning avid brakes myself)

  2. #2
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    well perception of Avids problems may be slightly distorted - they come stock on many bikes, so there are tons of them around. Naturally, more people are going to have trouble with them.


    That being said, I have yet to see Avids on anyones bike that don't make noise, rub, or have some other weird problem. I mean, a friend of mine had the first Codes back when they came out, and one of the pistons broke... wtf.
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  3. #3
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    Chrysler mechanics wonder why Chrysler builds crap.
    Whirlpool repairmen wonder why Whirlpool builds crap.
    Hewlett Packard geeks wonder why Hewlett Packard builds crap.
    Harley Davidson wrenches wonder why Harley... well, Harley actually does build crap.

    anyway, see the pattern yet?

  4. #4
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    I run (2009) Juicy 7's and Elixir CR's that came on my 29er's and haven't had any issues. Both sets have great stopping power, pistons do not stick, no issues bleeding them, no significant fading, and run without gobbling to speak of (unless I hit deep water or mud and they make noise for a couple of minutes like any other set of brakes). I agree that there are a lot out in the world so they are likely to have more issues but all of them aren't bad.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetblast10 View Post
    Chrysler mechanics wonder why Chrysler builds crap.
    Whirlpool repairmen wonder why Whirlpool builds crap.
    Hewlett Packard geeks wonder why Hewlett Packard builds crap.
    Harley Davidson wrenches wonder why Harley... well, Harley actually does build crap.

    anyway, see the pattern yet?
    you can't compare the products you listed to a bicycle component. bicycles are made out of entirely independent parts which can be easily replaced. you can't put a toyota brakes/engine/gear box into a chrysler (within a reasonable cost). same goes for the other products on the list.
    you can't take a bad car and fix it by changing some of the parts. you can however, fix a bad bike setup by switching only few components.

  6. #6
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    I'm not comparing products as much as I'm comparing people's perceptions of products and showing many examples. Nearly every product has aftermarket upgrades to select from which will improve performance. By the time anything is exactly the way you want it, it could have parts sourced from many different suppliers. ie. Toyota brakes don't need to fit a Chrysler when Brembo makes a Chrysler set.

    The point is always the same. People want to talk about something they're disappointed in for whatever reason they have; but in the end it's just banter unless some test & validation methodology is employed.

    btw, I bought BB7's. They stop my bike. Good enough for me.

  7. #7
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    somewhat experienced bicycle riders visit internet forums. you have to agree, that the picture painted from many anecdotal evidence, is that avid brakes are more problematic than most.
    is it a valid statistical observation? probably not. but my personal experience, and the experience of many friends is very similar.
    why are there no horror stories of shimano or magura or formula?

  8. #8
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    I've seen lots of people have little or no issues with Avids. They offer decent stopping power at decent prices.
    However I also know people that have had lots of issues with constant need to re-bleed etc.

    I have Juicy 7s on my Trance X and they are OK. I've only bled them once in the last 2 years.

    However I now have a set of Hope Tech M4s on my Nomad and I now see the light! So easy to bleed, great modulation and great adjustability. I also like Shimano brakes.

  9. #9
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    I had Juicy7 brakes on one of my bikes (sold a while back) and my only complaint was the lack of pad retraction (piston bore reflux) upon lever release, which caused varying degrees of friction. Mostly just noise but sometimes a little more.
    But I didn't consider this to be Avid's problem. Instead I faulted the concept of a fixed rotor with zero inherent wobble, a semi floating rotor (think good motorcycle rotors) would've solved that problem. The pad spring clip didn't seem powerful enough to overcome the neutral hydraulic weight. I suppose one could blame Avid for that but I didn't see it that way.
    At any rate, the mechanical brakes don't have that issue. Adjust them every so often and they're good to go.



    question. Do you find that the Avid issues discussed are more common in specific types of riding? Say more XC than downhill or vice versa?

    Also, would you characterize the riders who have issues about Avid as being really really good riders? Like to say they're categorically better than a good average rider? It stands to reason that a professional class rider is going to find (and want to eliminate) nuance issues that a 3 hour per week recreational XC rider wouldn't find or might just choose to accept.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetblast10 View Post
    I had Juicy7 brakes on one of my bikes (sold a while back) and my only complaint was the lack of pad retraction (piston bore reflux) upon lever release, which caused varying degrees of friction. Mostly just noise but sometimes a little more.
    But I didn't consider this to be Avid's problem.



    question. Do you find that the Avid issues discussed are more common in specific types of riding? Say more XC than downhill or vice versa?

    Also, would you characterize the riders who have issues about Avid as being really really good riders?
    what you are describing here is a sticky piston, one of the two major constant problems of avid brakes. its not enough to clean the pistons, as you would on other companies' brakes, rather changing the seals is required.

    those are very good questions. i really can't answer them because riders are not uniform enough. some good riders have no mechanical skills and little experience with different setups. some bad riders have skills and experience, and all the other combinations possible.
    but i can say that many riders don't know that anything is wrong or think its normal (like yourself, for instance).
    also, many riders stick to certain setups they are familiar with (i.e. people who swear on a certain brand and never change it) and are rarely experimenting with new ones, mistakenly thinking that what they have is good. if you had avids on your first "real" fs bike, its likely you'll have avids on the next bike, because this is the first "real" hydraulic brake and you think its good - otherwise, why pay 2k$ for a bike?

  11. #11
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    I've owned Avid V brakes, really good. Avid BB5 mediocre at best. Avid BB7 great brake. Hayes Stroker Ryde, mediocre again, and Avid Elixir 5 powerful and modulate well, but sticky pistons, warbling and bleeding annoyances, but no biggie considering the cheap price. Also remember many ills can be fixed simply by changing the pads!

    So why Avid? Anyhow in China, where I live, if you want parts then really Avid or Shimano are only available. Magura and Formula are possible, but I think SLX or XT will be the future of hydro in this region, BB7 the future of mechs. I've really had enough of Avid hydros, at least for now, but I'll wait for my Elixir 5s to die their natural death, and probably replace with XT. But please remember that really Elixirs aren't any worse than Hayes Stroker Rydes or Trails for example, keep it in perspective.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lew242 View Post
    But please remember that really Elixirs aren't any worse than Hayes Stroker Rydes or Trails for example, keep it in perspective.
    most people know that hayes brakes are crap. no one would put hayes brakes on a high end bike. but avid? plenty.
    you said it yourself how disappointing they are. you said they are cheap, but shimano low end brakes (non serial ones) would be much cheaper, and perform much better; without the constant need for pad changing, rotor swapping and bleeds.
    are there bad brakes on the market? sure - tektro and hayes are two good examples of bad brakes which people stay away from. avid aren't as bad, but not nearly good enough for expensive bikes, and certainly not good enough as an upgrade.

    i get that sram are very powerful, and avid are the leading oem brakes, but that should not stop people from seeing them for what they are - bad products that should be avoided.

  13. #13
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    why do people still use avid brakes?
    Because they come stock on many bikes. Even though I have had the occasional problem with Avids over the years, and even though I've developed a liking for Shimano-brand brakes, I can't afford to just toss away what I've got. They work. So I run 'em.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by brake jack View Post
    most people know that hayes brakes are crap. no one would put hayes brakes on a high end bike

    ...

    sure - tektro and hayes are two good examples of bad brakes which people stay away from. avid aren't as bad, but not nearly good enough for expensive bikes, and certainly not good enough as an upgrade.
    This is debatable. There are a lot of people on these forums that would disagree with you, especially in regards to certain models like the Stroker Ace. They're obviously going to not be as good as top-of-the-line models, but their prices reflect that.

  15. #15
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    i had a set of juicy ultimate 7's that were great. came stock on my old carbon stumpy. my first hydro's after years on v brakes...

    i specced sram xo's on my new 29er build on the back of that limited first hand (or left and right hand?) real world riding. and they are stunning. and they fit into my alt bar set up with their neat rounded clamp - bonus.

    i think avid brakes are great, never had any problems. think folk have various hang ups about certain brands based on experience etc which is fair enough but im a fan.

  16. #16
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    My avids are still ok , i think they're getting a little softer and the front one slipped down in the fork clamp(for the housing) and crimped pretty bad. I grabbed a lever onmy friends new saint brakes,wow! I've heard shimano's are the shiz and they feel great,i didn't ride the bike but just from the lever feel amazing. I think shimano is the best at making good products right off the drawing board and then making real improvements year after year.

  17. #17
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    +1 to the OEM spec argument. i'd venture to guess that most avid owners got them as stock brakes on their bikes. the big boys seem to spec a lot of avids in the different iterations as oem brakes hence the seeming ubiquity of them.

  18. #18
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    A lot of people have and love Avid brakes. I fixed up the problems on my elixir 3s but they still needed to be bled to often and were not as powerful as I'd like them to be. I now have XTR brakes and like them a lot more. Still, there are good riders with avid brakes.

  19. #19
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    My Avid brakes are incredible. Best stopping power and modulation I have experienced. I have never been able to figure out why people have so many problems. Sure they squeal a bit when they get wet and muddy, bit in a few seconds the squeal goes away. Set these babies up right and they provide solid performance with smooth modulation. Love 'em FTW!

  20. #20
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    my thoughts upon those who absolutely hate Avid brakes are that they probably haven't tried enough of them that are properly set up to really say a whole lot about them. Personally, I got tired of inconsistency and lacking power abilities when I decided to go from Elixir 3 brakes to XTR Trails

  21. #21
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    I just upgraded to avid hydro's this week over my stock tektro mech's.

    My reasoning? Price. They were well within my price range and they work.

    I'm not a racer or hardcore rider, so that's all I need. And I'm sure there's alot more out there like me.
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  22. #22
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    first time I bought a set of Avid brakes wasn't too long ago, they were elixir-r's. I got em because they were decently priced and bone simple to install. Unpack, uncoil, attach, squeeze lever to center caliper, secure caliper, spin wheel to check and ride.. dead easy. Worked beautifully ever since.. THEN..I rode over winter where it got wet..somehow thought I'd sidestepped the turkey warble I'd heard about..but two hours of "Gobble-gobble"and I'd be damned if'n it does sound exactly like a turkey. Anyhow..other than that the suckers just work and work.

    When I was putting this bike together I wanted to avoid the irritating trait I have of somehow missing out some small parts or other that halts the build dead in it's tracks until I can get them, hate that..and the LBS NEVER have the little and specific things you have in mind... I just gathered, and built and wanted it to be a simple process and the Avids came with everything, rotors, loc-tight'ed bolts...easy peasy.

    I have hayes, hope, shimano, formula and avid brakes on my bikes..only one that has ever given me any second glances are the shimano's with the mineral oil fluid...dem suckers keep going spongy but admittedly they are a low end set totally unadjustable set and the bleed kit is a ridiculous price.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by brake jack View Post
    it started with the juicies', and now we have the elixirs. for the last 6 years people have been reporting the turkey warble, the sticky pistons and the rubbing.
    i now here the 2012 avid xx is much better than the 2011 xx. a top of the line brake, which cost a lot of money, and they are still fixing it's problems, year after year?

    i think its time to except the fact that avid are not that good at making mtb hydraulic disc brakes. no shame in it. they've been trying hard for the past several years, always coming up with an inconsistent product, with the same problems keep showing up year after year.

    why do people keep buying them? paying money for an inferior product when there are many good alternatives is crazy in my book.

    (i worked as a wrench and never had the misfortune of owning avid brakes myself)
    These all sound like problems that are common to all hydraulic disc brakes.

    My question is... are they really that bad, or do they have a bad rap because they are so popular? ... I mean, they come OEM on so many bikes.

    My XTRs and Hope Mono Minis get sticky pistons from time to time. I just clean them, and the problem goes away for a while. I don't think this is specific to any one brand of brake.

    That said, I know loads of folks with Avid hydraulic brakes who complain about them... a lot. I know one guy who owned like 8 sets, and basically lot sold them on Ebay for really cheap.

  24. #24
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    I'll personally never buy Avid's again aftermarket. If they came on a bike I'd give them a chance, but that's it. SLX's are only a little more money than Elixir 5's and well worth it to me. No turkey's, dead simple bleeding, minimal dead lever throw and fantastic modulation.

    I know there are lots of people that are happy with Avids. I also know lots of people suggest that setup error is the likely cause of troubles. I did the following in trying to evict the turkeys from mine:
    - Set calipers up "Hope style" with feeler gauges to within 0.003" parallel and centered
    - Trued the discs with a dial indicator
    - Deburred the discs
    - Acetone washed the discs(multiple times)
    - Sanded the discs
    - Chamfered the pad edges
    - Tried different pads
    - Cleaned/reseated pistons
    - Multiple bleeds

    Shimanos? Tightened the screws and rode. There are too many people that have gone through the same issues with Avid's that have had no problems with other brands.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moozh View Post
    ..only one that has ever given me any second glances are the shimano's with the mineral oil fluid...dem suckers keep going spongy but admittedly they are a low end set totally unadjustable set and the bleed kit is a ridiculous price.
    I know the older generations of Shimano brakes weren't considered very good. The m665/m775 brakes and above are dead simple to bleed and don't even need a bleed kit. A foot of tubing from the local hardware store and a zip lock are all that is required.

  26. #26
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    To be perfectly honest, of all brakes I tried and my closest riding buddies have tried, only the Shimano XT was making no issues whatsoever.

    However, if you count out the obvious brake problems like broken piston, the issue could be in tons of things not just the brakes. Contaminated or crappy pads, twisted or bad rotors, misalignment etc. Do not quickly blame the brake system.

    I had issues with X0 brakes, then I bought Hope Saw rotors, and suddenly no issues anymore. They work perfectly. So, it was not the brake itmwas my rotor.
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  27. #27
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    Got a friend with Formula, they were causing problems. He sold them to another friend, and he has no issues with them, they are perfect. This first dude then bought Magura Marta, was ok for first few months, now they are horrible. Etc etc etc....
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    These all sound like problems that are common to all hydraulic disc brakes.
    no, they are not. if you'd ever try "just cleaning" avid sticky pistons, you'd see its a lot harder than with other brands, and rarely achieves the same results.

  29. #29
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    Huh...

    Quote Originally Posted by brake jack View Post
    no, they are not. if you'd ever try "just cleaning" avid sticky pistons, you'd see its a lot harder than with other brands, and rarely achieves the same results.

    ... Too bad.

    I'm just saying a lot of what people complain about wtih Avids sound like the same problems I have with my brakes from time to time. I'm just getting a feel if this is a popularity vs. folks aren't aware of hydraulic brake issues, or worse... Avids aren't designed very well.

    Yeah, I love Shimano brakes. Next set will likely be Shimano, mostly because I like dual control levers... yeah, I 'm a freak.

    The one thing I don't like about Shimano is that they don't have replacement parts like seals and pistons. They are disposable. That said, I've never actually worn out a Shimano caliper or lever. I rebuilt my Hopes, and that turned out well. Parts were cheap when ordered from the UK.

    Are Avids serviceable?

  30. #30
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    People that are happy with their brakes rarely go to forums to talk about them. I ran juicy 7s that came oem for 6 years, and the only annoyance I ever had was that it always seemed a lot harder to get new pads in the calipers than it should be. Other than that there has not been one issue. I never even new there was a "brake time" forum until about a month ago I got a pair of the new xt's and I have been on this forum almost every day trying to work different issues out. I just sent my front brake back to shimano for warranty.

    I'm still excited for when I get the xt's dialed, but my point is with the high numbers of avid brakes being used out there, think of all those that have great brakes with no need to visit this forum or your bike shop.

  31. #31
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    I'm happy with my elixirs that came stock on my 2009 specialized stumpjumper fsr. I have them on my mach 5 now.

    Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

  32. #32
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    Oh boy. First, I was going to get the XT 785 disc brake set on sale at Bluesky for $250 with rotors and adapters, but the "I love XT" brake thread indicated there might be a manufacturing defect with the XT brakes. Then I started looking at the 2012 Avid Elixir 7s, and now I read this thread.

    My LBS says to go with XT 785's and Avid rotors!! What do you think is my best choice for xc/all mountain?

  33. #33
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    I have had three different sets of avid brakes. One bb7 that has worked flawlessly for years on my hardtail And on my enduro, One set of juicy sevens that worked great but got replaced with a set of juicy ultimates after they got trashed in a wreck. I put dangerboy levers on them and have been running them for 3 years now. No problems with the sticky pistons, turkey warble, or bleeding. Maybe I haven't "seen the light" cause I haven't tried anything else but also if it isn't broke don't fix it. As of right now I ride mostly downhill and love these brakes. When I decide to get new ones I'm sure I'll probably stick with avid. I might just be lucky but I feel a lot of the bad remarks come because of the huge number of people using avids.

  34. #34
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    Why should I change if I've had no problems?

    Spending money just costs money.

  35. #35
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    Love my Avid's, any one throwing theirs away can feel free to send them my way.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS cuda' View Post
    I might just be lucky but I feel a lot of the bad remarks come because of the huge number of people using avids.
    I hear you. If there are 50,000 Avid brakes vs 20,000 Shimano brakes, and there are twice as many complaints for Avid brakes, then the Avid's are actually better brakes!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Love my Avid's, any one throwing theirs away can feel free to send them my way.
    I'll take the overflow.

    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    I hear you. If there are 50,000 Avid brakes vs 20,000 Shimano brakes, and there are twice as many complaints for Avid brakes, then the Avid's are actually better brakes!
    Exactly.

  38. #38
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    I have two set of Juicy 3s. One had a sticky piston after 3 years. Both had the turkey gobble and squealing when new. Nothing a good long break-in period didnt fix. Washed them down with brake cleaner while I was breaking them in (about 3 rides). Bleeding isnt much of a problem with the exception of having to do it with the manual. I havent gotten the sequence down, only do it once a year.

    None of these problems I find excessive. At least not worth 400 dollars worth of new brakes. They stop good and require basic maintenance. I hear YMMV

  39. #39
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    I've ran Avid Juicys for years and had issues but nothing major and you know what, just picked up some Elixir's and impressed so far.


    There main selling point is the Tri Alignment system, no hassling around getting your frame and forks faced just bolt them on and ride, great for cheap ish bikes with sloppy made brake tabs.

    I like the bleeding method to, the pretty little bubbles

  40. #40
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    But dude, if all those aforementioned brands built stuff to the quality you're implying, the typical consumer wouldn't want to pay for it.
    Question to a custom frame builder..."So what makes your bikes climb better?"....his answer, "Uh, your legs?"

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by brake jack View Post
    (i worked as a wrench and never had the misfortune of owning avid brakes myself)
    Couldn't hack it as a tube changer at the bike store? Why did they fire you, because you couldn't fix brakes?

  42. #42
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    The worst brakes I've used and also the most expensive are the Hope Mono Mini's so >Price does not equal better quality, build quality was actually higher but it didn't mean better performance it meant uber sensitive and picky and a nightmare to use.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turveyd View Post

    I like the bleeding method to, the pretty little bubbles
    I may be mistaken. There is nothing in biking I hate more than degassing brake fluid

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bing! View Post
    I may be mistaken. There is nothing in biking I hate more than degassing brake fluid

    Works with my geeky scientist side I guess.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bing! View Post
    I may be mistaken. There is nothing in biking I hate more than degassing brake fluid
    I take it you've never hit a tree at speed.

  46. #46
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    The solution to the "Turkey gobble howl" is actually quite simple.

    1. Remove stock pads

    2. Install Kool-Stop pads with the new metal "clip"

    3. Before putting the "clip" onto the pads, *very lightly* put a tiny coating of Orange CRC Brake quiet goo onto the sides and, eyelet of each pad. (NOT on the backing of the pads, JUST where the clip holds the pads). Also put a very light coating where the screw-in pin goes through the eyelets of pads.

    Let the goo set-up for a healthy 10 - 15 minutes, before putting the pads onto the clip.

    4. Carefully install the pads & clip assembly back into the caliper, and install the screw-pin & E-Clip.

    5. Let the setup chill out for about 30 minutes so the goo starts to dry, and then go ride your bike.

    6. Enjoy quiet brakes.



    The only "problem" with the Elixir's is that the clip allows resonance when you brake. A lot of cars & trucks have this problem too, just on a much larger scale.

    Be very gentle with the amount of CRC Brake Goo you use, and DON'T put it on the backings, and you really won't have any issues.

    Attention to detail can sometimes go a long way.

    You in Oklahoma City? If yes, come ride with us.

  47. #47
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    Huh....

    Quote Originally Posted by Turveyd View Post
    The worst brakes I've used and also the most expensive are the Hope Mono Mini's so >Price does not equal better quality, build quality was actually higher but it didn't mean better performance it meant uber sensitive and picky and a nightmare to use.
    IMO, Hope Mono Minis were the best brakes I ever owned. I had some minor issues with them, nothing that was a big deal to figure out once I learned how.

    After 3000 miles and 6 years, I just rebuilt my rear.... $30 in parts, and tinkering with it for an hour and it's good as new.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by brake jack
    i get that sram are very powerful, and avid are the leading oem brakes, but that should not stop people from seeing them for what they are - bad products that should be avoided.
    Are Hayes and Avid necessarily crap though? The reviews from Hayes Stroker Ace and Avid Code suggest that their high-end offerings work well. The dumbing down of the prices and quality seems to have been where they have failed most.

  49. #49
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    I recently upgrades to Hayes Strokers after I saw 4 of my riding buddies continually have issue with their Avid brakes. I've been using Hayes brakes on several different bikes since about 2000. Never had an issue with any of them.

    BTW I love my Hayes Strokers. They're hands down the best brake for the $$.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    BTW I love my Hayes Strokers. They're hands down the best brake for the $$.
    That's funny, because mine are the worst I've ever seen, and on par with what I've come to expect from Promax. I suppose that just goes to show how it's important not to rely overly much on a single anecdote or point of experience.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    I take it you've never hit a tree at speed.
    Nope, I find steering helps I have a problem with avoiding the ground though. The planet is just too big to go around.

    P.S. If I dont like it, doesnt mean I don't do it. I consider degassing fluid similar to cleaning the bathroom. If left undone, I'll be sitting somewhere deep in chit

  52. #52
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    Because I used to ride Hayes.
    Trailwrecker at large

  53. #53
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    All disc brakes can have problems. Sram sells a lot of brakes. Therefore, you will have a lot of complaints from frustrated people that just want someone to listen to their problems. Granted some models of Sram brakes aren't very reliable, but every brake manufacturer seems to have constant complaints on this forum. Maybe it should be called the "time to complain about your brakes forum."

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    That's funny, because mine are the worst I've ever seen, and on par with what I've come to expect from Promax. I suppose that just goes to show how it's important not to rely overly much on a single anecdote or point of experience.
    Yeah their previous Stroker models weren't very good. The new stuff - the Ace, Gram, Carbon, etc. are all much better. Funny how a company can go from pretty bad to pretty decent in one year of product development.

  55. #55
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    I've had juicy 3s, juicy ultimates, and elixir CRs. Here's the common history for all 3 sets -

    - working fine for a few months
    - adjust caliper positioning on the trail because one piston is sticking and the pad rubs
    - after several adjustments, run out of room to adjust the caliper away from that side
    - take the calipers off the bike, remove the pistons, clean and reassemble/bleed

    At least the elixir cr's made it a year before I had to take apart the calipers. The juicy's didn't make it past 3 months.

  56. #56
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    Explain to me why Avid (and nobody else) needs spherical washers. My experience of setting up multiple brakes (Avid, Formula, Shimano, Hope) is that alignment is everything and the sh1tty Avid washers stuff it up.

    In the old IS mount days, properly faced mounts assured alignment and shimming was great because after you'd done it once you could unmount the brake for maintenance and then bolt it up in exactly the same place.

    Post mount is more fiddly and only really serves brake manufacturers who wanted to cut down the number of brake configurations they had to make. However, I haven't seen any badly out of alignment posts yet so all it takes is a bit of faff lining them up. Push back the pistons, make sure they are freely moving and then align the rotor in the centre of the slot. Job done. You can even use feeler gauges to make it a bit scientific.

    Avids use of spherical washers is an abomination, with the squeeze and tighten doing nothing to assure proper alignment. Well done Avid for taking a simple system and making it worse, with no redeeming features. If nobody else needs this feature and the feature itself is flawed, why do the persist?


    Pad replacement/fitment? Of the ones I know about, Formula, Shimano and Hope are all OK (Formula The Ones and Shimano M988 XTR closely tied for best) but Avid Juicys are by a long way the worst. The rotor guide tabs can even foul on Avid's own post mount adaptors so the pads don't sit properly.

    Where you cannot argue with Juicys is power. I've never met a set that weren't very effective at supplying braking force. I don't think they modulate well and I don't have experience of Elixirs so I'll reserve comment.

  57. #57
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    I have 3 set of of Avids and love them all, BB7, Juicy 7, and 2011 Codes, only problem I have is a little noise on the codes when wet and they like to throw me over the handle bars, I have never ridden anything that stops like my Trek Fuel EX9 with the codes, have had no problems bleeding them or servicing them, getting ready to build a hardtail 29er and guess what brakes are going on it........Codes, I like to stop my big ass at the bottom of the hills I ride and don't like brake fade

  58. #58
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    I bought my bike used(2010 Stumpy Pro) and it came with a set of Avid Juicy 7's. They have worked pretty much flawlessly for me for XC use, I never have any noise. I do get the occasionally "zing!" but I blame that on a slightly bent rotor. I just got back from Snowshoe which was my first real DH/FR session and they worked pretty well, the back brakes were a little inconsistent and I was purposely trying not to use them as much as I could. I would loose "pedal" feel out of nowhere, but a couple pulls of the lever and they would soon come back. No problems up front though or I would have been in trouble!

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm View Post

    Avids use of spherical washers is an abomination, with the squeeze and tighten doing nothing to assure proper alignment. Well done Avid for taking a simple system and making it worse, with no redeeming features. If nobody else needs this feature and the feature itself is flawed, why do the persist?


    Pad replacement/fitment? Of the ones I know about, Formula, Shimano and Hope are all OK (Formula The Ones and Shimano M988 XTR closely tied for best) but Avid Juicys are by a long way the worst. The rotor guide tabs can even foul on Avid's own post mount adaptors so the pads don't sit properly.

    Where you cannot argue with Juicys is power. I've never met a set that weren't very effective at supplying braking force. I don't think they modulate well and I don't have experience of Elixirs so I'll reserve comment.
    Agree on the spherical washers. I don't use them any more. They've been replaced with flat spacers. I just recently tried this out. Should have done it years ago.

    Also agree on the pain in the ass juicy pad replacement. Elixirs have top removal like everybody else.

    My juicy ultimates definitely do have superior power over the elixirs, but you are right, the elixirs are more progressive.

  60. #60
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    i didnt choose them, they came on my bike. they sound like bad 8th grade band practice.

    i will probably replace them when i'm feeling less cheap.

    i did notice that the Avids that came on my stumpy worked like a charm. But my new Anthem came with the same brakes and they feel and sound gross.

  61. #61
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    They are there to allow for out of square frames

    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm View Post
    Explain to me why Avid (and nobody else) needs spherical washers. My experience of setting up multiple brakes (Avid, Formula, Shimano, Hope) is that alignment is everything and the sh1tty Avid washers stuff it up.

    In the old IS mount days, properly faced mounts assured alignment and shimming was great because after you'd done it once you could unmount the brake for maintenance and then bolt it up in exactly the same place.

    Post mount is more fiddly and only really serves brake manufacturers who wanted to cut down the number of brake configurations they had to make. However, I haven't seen any badly out of alignment posts yet so all it takes is a bit of faff lining them up. Push back the pistons, make sure they are freely moving and then align the rotor in the centre of the slot. Job done. You can even use feeler gauges to make it a bit scientific.

    Avids use of spherical washers is an abomination, with the squeeze and tighten doing nothing to assure proper alignment. Well done Avid for taking a simple system and making it worse, with no redeeming features. If nobody else needs this feature and the feature itself is flawed, why do the persist?


    Pad replacement/fitment? Of the ones I know about, Formula, Shimano and Hope are all OK (Formula The Ones and Shimano M988 XTR closely tied for best) but Avid Juicys are by a long way the worst. The rotor guide tabs can even foul on Avid's own post mount adaptors so the pads don't sit properly.

    Where you cannot argue with Juicys is power. I've never met a set that weren't very effective at supplying braking force. I don't think they modulate well and I don't have experience of Elixirs so I'll reserve comment.
    ... which happens more often than frame mfgs will admit.

    When I was on Avid Mechs, I found the trick to the spherical washers. Basically, when you snug them down, use a tiny bit of torque at a time and alternate between the two bolts. Also, don't grab the lever tightly and cause flex in the caliper.Grab it just enough to lock its position in place.

    If the washers are too happy in their positions, they will move to that adjustment rather than correct adjustment. The trick there is to loosen them up and turn the concave and convex in relation to each other so they are no longer 'mated'.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    ... which happens more often than frame mfgs will admit.

    When I was on Avid Mechs, I found the trick to the spherical washers. Basically, when you snug them down, use a tiny bit of torque at a time and alternate between them. Also, don't grab the lever tightly and cause flex in the caliper.Grab it just enough to lock it's position in place. If the washers are too happy in their positions, they will move to that adjustment rather than correct adjustment. The trick there is to loosen them up and turn the concave and convex in relation to each other so they are no longer 'mated'.


    /\ This method that works very well for me.

  63. #63
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    The spherical washers are why I like them, if your frame / fork tabs are badly faced then without your pads won't align true to your rotor, if there faced 100% right then no issues ofcourse.

    My RS Rev's forks are badly faced, my On One Cromo's are badly faced, my trek 6500 frame was badly faced, hassle around getting them fixed, ( myself with sand paper works but takes time ), LBS £40 per go and leaving the bike there ( not happening ) or fit / buy avids and not have this worry.

    The RS Rev fork had been like it since 2007 I've just got the bike, some other sucker has been riding around with Hope brakes badly performing because of this, if it came with Avid's it wouldn't of been a issue.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turveyd View Post
    The spherical washers are why I like them, if your frame / fork tabs are badly faced then without your pads won't align true to your rotor, if there faced 100% right then no issues ofcourse
    I agree and its why I'd much rather still have IS mounts. Rock shox should be taken out back for a talking to with a baseball bat for all those forks where they seemed to think that powder coat was an appropriate mounting interface.

    I had a replacement swing arm for one frame where the IS tabs were 2.7 mm out of plane, so manufacturing tolerances can be truly dreadful. At least on that frame I didn't have post mount. I hate post mount more than I hate spherical washers, but that is a lost cause.

    If I get a frame our fork with bad mounts, I'll reject it rather than buy Avid.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

  65. #65
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    hopes and not looking back.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm View Post
    I agree and its why I'd much rather still have IS mounts. Rock shox should be taken out back for a talking to with a baseball bat for all those forks where they seemed to think that powder coat was an appropriate mounting interface.

    I had a replacement swing arm for one frame where the IS tabs were 2.7 mm out of plane, so manufacturing tolerances can be truly dreadful. At least on that frame I didn't have post mount. I hate post mount more than I hate spherical washers, but that is a lost cause.

    If I get a frame our fork with bad mounts, I'll reject it rather than buy Avid.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
    I also hate post mount, I stripped the threads in no time on my 06 Marz MX Pro's had to go back to it on my Reba's, with the 185mm rotor you've only got 2 bolts going into the forks, up that to 203mm soon then I can leave the 2 bolts in full time to the fork and not have to worry about the threads then adjust on the other 2 threads

  67. #67
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    I've stopped using them on most of my bikes. Here are some of the brakes I've had in recent years....

    - Hope Mono M4 (early ones) - Lots of power, felt great and didn't have to touch them at all. Only downside was the weight.

    - Juicy 7 - Which were fine, they didn't do anything amazingly but worked fine, did need bleeding quite a bit.

    - Elixer R - Sticky pistons from new, not a good start.

    - Elixer CR - Great power and modulation and worked great in the summer. I found they chewed through pads far too quickly in the winter, they run very close to the rotor so on wet mud\sand mix trails they would lightly rub with the smallest ammount of debirs on the rotor. Just seemed to be lack of clearance, same with another friends on same rides where as Shimano\Hope users were fine.

    - Shimano 475 (on my commuter/winter xc) - Not the most powerful or best feel but they've had no problems despite the lack of maintainance and all the crap off the roads and trails they've get covered in.

    - XTR 975 - Work fine but not as powerful as the Elixer CR or XTR Trail.

    - XTR Trail - Great power and modulation, lighter, look better, prefer the way they bleed (lots quicker and easier with the funnel). Very happy so far.

    I've gone off Avid over the years and so have all my mates, most are running Shimano or Hope with no regrets. This is my opinion and personal experience so no flaming please.

  68. #68
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    Thanks for the step by step advice. I am going to try this with my new avid xx 2012 brakes that warble like crazy.

  69. #69
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    I will have the new Elixir 7 brakes on my 2012 Epic 29er when it comes. I hope they are any good. Tons of bikes come with Avid brakes. I have to leave my old Hope tech X2-equipped HT behind :-( If the Avids aren't any good I will immediately buy the new Hope evo brakes They look sick with the new black finish with Hope-green accents. Im a Hope-fan but I will change the seatpost/cockpit on my new bike first (Syntace!)

  70. #70
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    I use Avid brakes because they are the first disc brake I have ever bought. I was v-brake for life until I cracked my old frame so splurged on an all new bike. Just did the first brake pad change and its obvious a piston is sticking. Just ordered a bleed kit so will be taking them apart when the kit comes in.

    I would rather have a different pair that is very user serviceable but the purchase was done long ago.

  71. #71
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    The thing that bugs me the most about avids is the crappy modulation. I just don't like the feel, at all. I have some non-series shimano's and they have awesome modulation, and reliability, however the stopping power could be a little better.
    -Eric
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigHit-Maniac View Post
    The solution to the "Turkey gobble howl" is actually quite simple.

    1. Remove stock pads

    2. Install Kool-Stop pads with the new metal "clip"

    3. Before putting the "clip" onto the pads, *very lightly* put a tiny coating of Orange CRC Brake quiet goo onto the sides and, eyelet of each pad. (NOT on the backing of the pads, JUST where the clip holds the pads). Also put a very light coating where the screw-in pin goes through the eyelets of pads.

    Let the goo set-up for a healthy 10 - 15 minutes, before putting the pads onto the clip.

    4. Carefully install the pads & clip assembly back into the caliper, and install the screw-pin & E-Clip.

    5. Let the setup chill out for about 30 minutes so the goo starts to dry, and then go ride your bike.

    6. Enjoy quiet brakes.



    The only "problem" with the Elixir's is that the clip allows resonance when you brake. A lot of cars & trucks have this problem too, just on a much larger scale.

    Be very gentle with the amount of CRC Brake Goo you use, and DON'T put it on the backings, and you really won't have any issues.

    Attention to detail can sometimes go a long way.


    Does it matter if I buy the metal backed ones. If so, aluminum or copper?

  73. #73
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    Back to the original question

    ....my advice, is two fold.....if you like to tinker and wrench your own bikes to perfect the installation of Avids, enjoy, OR, move on to other brakes. Avid are not the be-all, end-all for disc brakes. In fact they may be suffering from quality issues now that they are common in many stock pre-built bikes these days, in other words "mass production".

    As I mentioned in my prev post, having used Avids for a decade now, starting with BB7's, Juicy's and Elixirs, installing Magura's for the first time and running great with little fiddling has confirmed my belief. Over the years I got to know how to install Avid discs successfully and really have not had many issues, but all said, there were hours of fiddling in between to get there. Not worth it IMO.
    Question to a custom frame builder..."So what makes your bikes climb better?"....his answer, "Uh, your legs?"

  74. #74
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    I have the Juicy 3s and have not had a single issue.....other then replacing pads(fair ware and tear tho)

    I cake them with mud, submerge during water crossings and fill them with sand from the trails........I clean them and thats about it. So 2 years no issues. Now I want to see what some 180s feel like!

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    No problems with Avid Juicy in my 3 years of use and two pad sets replaced. A lot of use, mud, dirt, sand, wet even snow and they always stop me.

  76. #76
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    I have a set of Avid Elixir CR which I purchased in 2009. Never had any issues. I bled them once and it was pretty straightforward.

    I think because they spec so many bikes with them that you tend to hear more about them due to the sheer volume that are out there.

  77. #77
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    Good point, there are a lot of Avid brakes out there which accounts for the volume of chatter (no pun intended). I just feel there are as good if not better options out there, but they likely do not come pre-installed on bikes.
    Question to a custom frame builder..."So what makes your bikes climb better?"....his answer, "Uh, your legs?"

  78. #78
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    Anyone flushing their fluid?

    I'm curious if any of the people having issues with their hydro brakes have ever flushed the fluid? Brake fluid will absorb water over time, This will cause the brakes to:
    • Get spongy as the fluid gets watered down
    • start to stick as the seals swell from water and dirt contaminatio
    • pistons stick as they rust or get contaminated.n


    If/when you flush the fluid, you'll see this first hand because the fluid will turn brown as it absorbs muddy water.

    In the car world, it's standard practice to flush your brakes periodically to prevent this. I'm wondering if the people having consistant issues either ride in wet weather alot or tend to wash their bikes alot.

    BTW, I have a pair of Jucy 7's that have been working great for 5+ years. I just had to put them back on my Nomad after my Stroker Carbon's had a complete failure. The rear brake literally bottomed out in the middle of a ride. I tried to flush and bleed the fluid with no success. Put my old Juicy's back on and done.

    Also, check this out, sqealing looks like it's from bad pad/rotor design - Sram Issues Technical Bulletin Regarding Elixir Disc brake Issues - Bike Rumor

  79. #79
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    I have a set of 2011 XX and have been having trouble with modulation, pistons not returning and lever fade especially while climbing. My LBS called Avid and they are warranting the brake system. The only answer was that they are having problems with contamination with the fluid, did not say why other than that's the issue. I had a pair of Elixir Cr's on the last bike no problem whatsoever, these have been problematic from the first ride.

    Will post once the new ones are ridden.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalterN View Post
    I'm curious if any of the people having issues with their hydro brakes have ever flushed the fluid? Brake fluid will absorb water over time, This will cause the brakes to:
    • Get spongy as the fluid gets watered down
      Water, like other fluids does not compress and I don't see how it would cause the brakes to "get spongy".
    • start to stick as the seals swell from water and dirt contaminatio
      If the seals are made of a material that swells in contact with water, the caliper piston seals and outer most lever seals should swell from atmospheric moisture. I'm not buying it.
    • pistons stick as they rust or get contaminated.n
      I'm not aware of any brake manufacturer using steel to make their pistons.
    ...
    I do agree that changing the fluid periodically is a good thing and will help keep the brake system performing at it's best. Just not for the reasons given.

  81. #81
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    Good point on the pistons, but even if pistons are not prone to rust, they can still be effected by contaminates in the fluid. There seem to be a lot of mentions of stuck pistons in this thread.

    BTW, My points are mainly based on car experience - applying it to MTB'ing is haphazard at best :-)

    When I say "Spongy", I mean that the brake levers feel solid (like it's properly bled), but quickly fade and feel "spongy" on heavy braking. Basically, the brake fluid performance degrades over time. I have experienced this first hand and have seen it on friend's bikes. If bleeding doesn't fix it, flushing usually will.

    All this being said, I have only flushed my brake fluid about once every 2-3 seasons. My old set of Juicy 7's have only been flushed once in 5+ years and the fluid didn't look bad at all. I had a set of Strokers that I flushed after 2 seasons - the fuild was very tainted brown with obvious particles floating it.

    My intent of my previous post is to see if anyone having issues have ever attempted to flush the fluid. In my experience, people (obviously not the people in this forum) tend to buy hydro brakes pre-bled, slap them on the bike and not touch them until they run into issues.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalterN View Post
    Good point on the pistons, but even if pistons are not prone to rust, they can still be effected by contaminates in the fluid. There seem to be a lot of mentions of stuck pistons in this thread.

    BTW, My points are mainly based on car experience - applying it to MTB'ing is haphazard at best :-)

    When I say "Spongy", I mean that the brake levers feel solid (like it's properly bled), but quickly fade and feel "spongy" on heavy braking. Basically, the brake fluid performance degrades over time. I have experienced this first hand and have seen it on friend's bikes. If bleeding doesn't fix it, flushing usually will.

    All this being said, I have only flushed my brake fluid about once every 2-3 seasons. My old set of Juicy 7's have only been flushed once in 5+ years and the fluid didn't look bad at all. I had a set of Strokers that I flushed after 2 seasons - the fuild was very tainted brown with obvious particles floating it.

    My intent of my previous post is to see if anyone having issues have ever attempted to flush the fluid. In my experience, people (obviously not the people in this forum) tend to buy hydro brakes pre-bled, slap them on the bike and not touch them until they run into issues.
    I have seen numerous issues with many DOT based hydros where the fluid has absorbed water and expanded. It means the pistons won't push back when fitting new pads. The on the trail solution is to vent excess fluid from the master cylinder as you push back the pistons. I usually use this as a reminder that the time is near when a fluid refresh would be a good idea.

    A feature of DOT systems is that their seal materials are badly affected by oils. If initial stickiness is addressed by using any sort of oil based solvent, the problems just get worse from then on. Most people keep oil away from their calipers just through good sense. Getting the master cylinder seals oily is more common and less to trouble later.

    The third thing I see is the frequent advice to clean rotors with brake cleaner or alcohol (isopropyl alcohol usually). I find most such solvents leave a residue of some sort and I get better results cleaning with washing up detergent and water.

    Lastly, advice on bedding in pads is sometimes not exactly scientific. I tend to use sintered pads and these are good for exactly one bedding in procedure in their life because the sintered material work hardens. Any attempts to deglaze and repeat a bedding in process fail because the material is not in a fresh, annealed condition.

    So my advice is:

    Look out for pistons that don't push back. Do something about it.

    Never let any oily products near your seals.

    Clean contaminated rotors in the kitchen sink.

    throw away pads that are contaminated or glazed. Fit new ones instead.

    None of the above is Avid specific.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

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    I have had 4 sets of Elixer's over the last few years, 1-CR, 2- R's and 1-7. I had problems with the first set of R's from the day I got the bike and after a few attempts to fix the issue they were replaced by Sram. Defects happen, it's a fact of life. Of the 8 sets of hydraulic disc set ups I have had only 1 failed and it just happened to be a set of Elixirs and they came on a bike that had been demoed before I bought it ( I believe the problem occurred as a result of misuse). I have never had the turkey noise on any of my brakes, so I must just be lucky.

    I would speculate that, as many have already said, the number of failures is due mostly to the volume of brakes produced and that as a percentage the failure rate is no higher or lower than other brands. If the failure rate were much higher than the industry average companies would spec different brakes in their build kits. Some thing else to think about, Elixer's are O.E. on a lot of entry level bikes. I know I did some stupid things with my first bike, either accidentally or while tinkering and I would venture to guess that has something to do with the failure/complaint rate.

  84. #84
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    This is a funny thread. I have a Juicy 7 on my bike that is first gen that has never been bled and works like a squawking rooster at day break. The front gen one never worked, piston stuck, and when trying to rebuild I stripped a caliper body bolt and had to replace. The second gen juicy 7 has been as good if not better than the first one. Never bled, just pads and ride.

  85. #85
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    Ya see? This thread just proves we all have different experiences and that opinions really ARE like a$$ holes.

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  86. #86
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    Stop the avid gobble with Shimano XT SM-RT75 Disc Brake Rotor

    I just bought a bike with Avid CR brakes that made the infamous gobble sounds that drove me crazy. Replaced rotors with Shimano XT SM-RT75 Disc Brake Rotors and NO MORE gobble.
    Not sure why but the hole pattern on the XTs are different than the Avid so maybe that's it.

  87. #87
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    Avid brake levers feel weird to the fingers. They all squeal, weak braking when compared to the last 3 years of Shimano XTs and XTRs.

  88. #88
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    Avid = the best out there

    avid brakes are top of the line the xx are phenomal

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by darren59 View Post
    I just bought a bike with Avid CR brakes that made the infamous gobble sounds that drove me crazy. Replaced rotors with Shimano XT SM-RT75 Disc Brake Rotors and NO MORE gobble.
    Not sure why but the hole pattern on the XTs are different than the Avid so maybe that's it.
    No, it's the Avid CPS washers.

    But if you learn how to deal with the washers, Avids are fine.

  90. #90
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    I'll give my thoughts.

    The Juicys were the worst ever, all they did was make noise or feel like you were grinding metal on metal. They also had a very small window of having a good feel; when they were cool they felt hard and made noise, when they were just a tad too warm they faded hardcore. A very small window where the modulation and power felt just right.

    As for the elixir Rs, these are awesome brakes; super powerful, no noises, and reliable. As for feel the modulation is better than Juicys, but still nothing close to Hope. They have a much wider window of great feel, but found when they warmed up the power was uncontrollable. You could lock up the front wheel easily just barley pulling the lever, the back locks up almost all the time. But its nothing you cant get used to, just gets pretty annoying. I can see these being great brakes for a FR/DH build, but not enough modulation for a XC/AM build.

    Now I own Tech M4s and are the best ever, modulation is like pulling a lever on a moto x bike. You can literally feel how much you want the pads to grab like you were pinching the pads onto the disc yourself. And your always in control when you want to lock up the tires. As for power they have a little less than the elixirs, but then how many times to do you need all that power to come to a dead stop at any given moment? Not too often.
    Last edited by camarosam; 10-30-2011 at 08:58 AM.
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by orthobiker View Post
    Does it matter if I buy the metal backed ones. If so, aluminum or copper?

    Being a mechanic myself ( I actually fix airplane engines), I'd say it's a toss up.

    I've worked on cars for years as a side pick-me-up for cash, and done hundred of different kinds of brakes. I've learned that resonance, and dirty surfaces are 99% the cause of the issue.

    A good sanding of the rotor, then cleaning with Isopropyl Alcohol, then doing what I mentioned with the CRC Orange Brake Quiet will generally take care of the issue. The metal-on-metal contact of the clip, and the caliper is what's causing the issue, not the actual pad on the rotor.

    Working on Mercedes-Benz cars on the side, they seem to have a very similar issue: Fantastic stopping power, but they howl like a banshee on crack if you don't apply the correct paste, in the correct quantity. Allowing a very slight "cushion" between metal surfaces can take out the "tuning-fork" effect, and make things a lot more pleasant on the ears.

    I've been riding my Elixir 5's (with my applications of CRC and Kool Stop Pads) now for several months in the dust of the desert with absolute silence. I've washed my bike several times, ridden it in the muck of Mt. Charleston after a rain storm, etc, and they've been absolutely silent.

    My brother has Elixir 3's on his Trek, and I'm pretty sure he could wake up Abroham Lincoln out of his grave with his brakes. Why? Because they're filthy, and he hasn't taken the time to do what I did to mine.

    It's worth a shot, and I say go for it. They really don't require constant tinkering... like someone else mentioned, but a good bike is never going to be perfect. IE, you have to stay on top of things.

    A lot of people have the mentality in America that the minute something starts acting a little different, or shows a slight "problem" they immediately throw it away and go buy something else thinking the original product is "bad" or "poor". I come from a mindset of... why not tinker with it a little bit, and see what adjustments you can make before dropping another couple hundred dollars on something that might only be minutely better?

    Brakes are more alike than they are different. From planes to cars to bikes to motorcycles. They all do the same job. Some just require more than a dumb-dumb "Buy it at wal-mart" mentality to make them work optimally.

    I hope you the best, and cheers to quiet brakes.

    -Matt
    You in Oklahoma City? If yes, come ride with us.

  92. #92
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    Most brake problems are caused by poor set up and maintenance. Nothing wrong with Avid brakes.

  93. #93
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    I own Avid Juicy Sevens and have never had a problem. To me, they never squeal/gobble, even after creek crossings and mud. I don't really maintain them much either since I don't have room to do any actual work on my bikes. And, they stop my bike when I want them to.

    I have the BB7 road brakes on my touring bike and never have a problem with those either. If it ain't broke don't fix it I guess.
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    Id scrap the passion forum all together, its a breeding ground for unicorn milkers, rainbow chasers and candy cotton farters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigHit-Maniac View Post
    The solution to the "Turkey gobble howl" is actually quite simple.
    Buy some new brakes that are not Avids.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmeldrum26 View Post
    Buy some new brakes that are not Avids.
    So, would you care to share some of your infinite wealth with me then?
    You in Oklahoma City? If yes, come ride with us.

  96. #96
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    I,m riding 2011 BB7 mechanicals and love em, haven't had any issues and one finger braking with ease with the Speed Dial Ti levers, and it stills gives me the ability to choose cable over hydros which are simpler to maintain IMO.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    I do agree that changing the fluid periodically is a good thing and will help keep the brake system performing at it's best. Just not for the reasons given.
    The same is to be said for your car......but how many people do it (I do every 50k)

  98. #98
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    Avids are cheap and made in china. People like cheap. When I recommend Shimano or Formula - I get my balls busted for recommending something so expensive. What could be more expensive than cheap brakes on a mountain bike. A hard crash due to brake failure will cost much more than a set of shimanos or formulas. Good quality is always cheaper. Don't know why most folks can't seem to get or understand that concept.

  99. #99
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    what annoys me is there so cheap a brake why do they keep putting them on high end bikes

    i have looked at few brands today gt , kona giant, merida, cube, speliazed

    i test rode about 8 bikes with 26 and 29ers found a lot of them had cheap and nasty brakes and my old bike that was half the amount of new bike had better brakes than 1200 brand bikes

    im just wandering if bike companies just trying to squeeze more profit outta us

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardynt View Post

    im just wandering if bike companies just trying to squeeze more profit outta us




    Yes, they don't stick around long if they don't turn a profit.

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