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  1. #1
    mvi
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    Why do disc pads last one race?

    For the second time in a few years I thrashed a set of new disc pads in one 90 minute race. And many other people seem to had the same problems.
    Yes both times it was pouring rain, but one race?

  2. #2
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    Yep. Try braking less.

    The only suggestion I have is go to metallic.

  3. #3
    fool goin up, joker down
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro
    Yep. Try braking less.
    Yeah lets all just brake less, ya know hell who even needs brakes
    but on a more serious note I have NEVER heard about pads wearing that much in one race?!?!?!
    Are you talking about MAJOR wear?
    Mamma speed I'm back!!!

  4. #4
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    That just mean brake pads<you which is a good thing. But seriously, how many miles was it?

  5. #5
    mvi
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    Metallic pads. Steel on steel in the rear. 18 mile race. ~3500 ft of elevation difference. And again I was not the only one.
    The rain seems to be the main cause.

  6. #6
    Meh.
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    Mud can eat pads.

  7. #7
    Off the back...
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    Don't use the brakes. They just slow you down...
    @pinkrobeyyc
    #pinkrobeyyc

  8. #8
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    What brakes are you running, and what pads are/were you running?

  9. #9
    What It Be ?
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    I am running Juicy 7s. Did a 12 hour race this weekend. Started raining 1/2 way though. I still have some pad life left. Brake less.

  10. #10
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    Were the pads properly `bedded` in before using in the race ?

  11. #11
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    It sounds like you had/have Resin pads on your brakes, and that would explain why they didn't last. Resin pads will last quite well in dry conditions, but don't always last that long in wet/muddy conditions. For wet weather braking semi-metalicpads usualy do better.

  12. #12
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    I have to stress bedding in the pads.
    I forgot to bed in a pair of sintered and killed them in one ride!

    do it properly and they will last for ever.

  13. #13
    mvi
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    I had juice 7's and put alligator mettallic pads in. Put the pads in the oven for 30 minutes at 300 F, (like I used to with my Shimanos). I had the same happen 2 years ago in one muddy race. Then ride 2 years with one set of pads, then ride one day with a set of pads. Mud, and braking is not good with discs it seems. BTW it was atrocious, don't come with the "brake less BS" please.

  14. #14
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    I've been in two horribly muddy races and lost my discs both times. Both on stock BB7 pads. Both in ~90 minute races. And I wasn't alone. All models and brands experienced the same difficulties. Also, both were on somewhat flat courses.

    Bedding has nothing to do with it

  15. #15
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    I too was having this problem with the avid pads, they could last for months if it was dry but they were gone in less than an hour in serious mud. Don't use the stock pads, buy some aftermarket ones, at least, it worked for me.

  16. #16
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    i have 09 elixer 's .the rear is toast from weekend rainfest race .2 rain races ...2 new sets of rear pads. i even put a magura rotor on the back thinking a solid rotor would make them last longer in those conditions.i called avid today..they said stock pads last longer than the optional organic.ive been using stock...go figure.

  17. #17
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    sintered pads ftw

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakarina
    I too was having this problem with the avid pads, they could last for months if it was dry but they were gone in less than an hour in serious mud. Don't use the stock pads, buy some aftermarket ones, at least, it worked for me.

    Which ones did you go with?

  19. #19
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    who makes sintered pads for the avid elixers??????????

  20. #20
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  21. #21
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    My metal hope pads are 2 years old and look brand new. I've ridden on plenty of wet days.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    My metal hope pads are 2 years old and look brand new. I've ridden on plenty of wet days.



    MUD, everywhere mud. I've ridden my disc brakes on wet days also and have had no adverse affects. Try RACING in MUD. Thick, nasty, all up in your face mud. If your hopes hold up in that crap then you've found a winner and should definitely stick with it. .

  23. #23
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    Plenty of muddy races including 2 ouachita challenges, several 6 and 12hr races, and one 24hr race...even had a few 1st places. Maybe it has something to do with my weight (132lbs)?

  24. #24
    mvi
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    I rode plenty of wet in the two year episode they lasted. Racings aggressive braking indeed seems to be the difference.

  25. #25
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    I would still say if a pad fails too fast it hasn't been bedded in properly.
    Second to that is the way you brake.

    My dad still has the original sintered pads in his hope brakes from when he bought it, I think 5 ish years or so ago.
    He probably covers more miles than most of this forum put together with english mud.

    He only brakes when he needs to then brakes like he means it.

    Those pads at this wear rate have at least another 5 years and many thousand miles left.

    My braking technique isn't as good so I eat pads faster.

  26. #26
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    superstar makes the best oem compound, i didn't think ebc was very grippy.

  27. #27
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    I'm not convinced by the bedding in thing (but I'd be happy to be convinced by someone who can convincingly tell me the science). I have 'mud eats pads' problems all the time. Very recently I was using a set of sintered pads that had seen me through lots of only slightly muddy rides (and I presume were therefore bedded in). Then I raced on a day in which it got properly wet, so that lots of fine muddy water was being carried onto the brakes for a prolonged period. The pads were gone in an hour or two. Had it been dry I'd have expected loads more from them.

    I also have a bit of a theory (but no evidence for it) that some manufacturers have the pads sitting much closer to the rotor - so that they are wearing even when the brakes aren't applied. Anyone think there's something to this?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrotnot
    I'm not convinced by the bedding in thing (but I'd be happy to be convinced by someone who can convincingly tell me the science). I have 'mud eats pads' problems all the time. Very recently I was using a set of sintered pads that had seen me through lots of only slightly muddy rides (and I presume were therefore bedded in). Then I raced on a day in which it got properly wet, so that lots of fine muddy water was being carried onto the brakes for a prolonged period. The pads were gone in an hour or two. Had it been dry I'd have expected loads more from them.

    I also have a bit of a theory (but no evidence for it) that some manufacturers have the pads sitting much closer to the rotor - so that they are wearing even when the brakes aren't applied. Anyone think there's something to this?

    The idea or "Science" behind pad bedding is to allow the pads and/or rotors to have a chance to wear or break in together to create a very high and even contact area so that there would be less chance of squealing as well as provide optimum braking effeciancy. Bedding in your brake pads doesn't matter when mud is thrown into the picture because it introduces an additional abrasive to the situation that accelerates wear on the pads as well as the rotors.

  29. #29
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    AxSpeedfreek: That makes sense - so 'bedding in' in this way makes the brakes work better (they have worn to fit the rotor much better) but has no effect on how they wear (with or without mud).
    Actually I'd not find it hard to believe that on a clean rotor there might be a heated/polished surface building up on the pad, which would be a little more resistant to occasional encounters with mud. But how that would make a difference to sustained mud (which presumably quickly wears off such a surface) I'm much less convinced about. My 'superstition and witchcraft' sensors are twitching when people say 'if only you'd bedded them in properly they wouldn't have worn out so fast in that grinding paste'.
    Note that I'd still be happy to hear from someone who can convince me otherwise (preferably someone who manufactures the pads and really knows).

    I'm interested in yater's assertion that his/her pads have lasted so long. That's such a difference as to be worth taking account of. Are there other people using hope brakes that do have the 'one race per set' problem? If not then perhaps there's something good about the hope design. I can't believe that it's simply down to the pad material.

  30. #30
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    I raced syllamo's revenge last weekend. Anyone who was there will tell you that it was 50 miles of SLOP. My brakes still look good. When I finally replace my pads, it will be with the stock hope pads that came with the brakes. BTW, the brakes are '08 mono mini pros.

  31. #31
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    About to check on mine, which I think I destroyed racing last night...

    I think the mud in a race is a little bit different. During a race, the entire field rides over the same couple of miles of trail many times, and frequently there was a class before doing the same thing. It churns up the mud a lot more, and I think it means that the stuff my wheels throws up has more dirt in it. I also ride faster when I'm racing, so I think I throw up more mud, and sometimes I'm on someone's rear wheel, so their wheel is throwing mud into my brake caliper.

    On a wet day when it's not a race, I'm probably not going as fast, other people aren't throwing mud into my calipers, and the stuff I'm passing over is more likely to be tacky or standing water, and less likely to be that slurpee stuff I see on race courses. I think that a lot of it has to do with the amount of mud going in there.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrotnot
    I'm interested in yater's assertion that his/her pads have lasted so long. That's such a difference as to be worth taking account of. Are there other people using hope brakes that do have the 'one race per set' problem? If not then perhaps there's something good about the hope design. I can't believe that it's simply down to the pad material.

    I my self am running Hope brakes and they do perform excelent in the mud with Semi-Metalic pads, how they perform with resin pads I don't know. It can actualy come down simply to the pad material. Now all pad makers make their pads in the same way or with the exact same material, semi-metalic pads from one maker aren't going to be the same as another maker.

  33. #33
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    Come on' everyone knows that if racing in mud, the mud is your brakes.

  34. #34
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    In truth I don't know why the beaking in bit adds durability, but the results are demonstrable.

    Not sure if I mentioned before but dad is still on the hope pads that came with his bike and he probably covers more miles than most of these forumers put together.

    That one is braking technique.

  35. #35
    Always Learning
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvi
    For the second time in a few years I thrashed a set of new disc pads in one 90 minute race. And many other people seem to had the same problems.
    Yes both times it was pouring rain, but one race?
    Rain can do it - especially heavy rain. I was in a race 2 years ago where the amount of rain had everyone in all categories lose their disc brake pads during the first lap. It was a heavy rain. The race was called after the first lap due to the conditions and the fact that nobody had any brakes left. Everyone - regardless of brand of disc brake or pads lost their brakes. Must have been over 80 racers that day, and all the talk post race was "when did you lose your brakes, in the first part of the first lap, the middle part or the last part?".

    I think I lost both the front and rear brake pads (Avid sintered pads) within the first 1/3 of lap one. Got home, cleaned up the bike and there was nothing left on the pads. I never had that happen before and it hasn't happened since, but that was a heavy rain that you do not normally see during an XC race as organizers would cancel the race with that amount of rainfall before the gun. Ours hit right after the gun, so there was no fault.

    BB

  36. #36
    DGB
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzSpeedfreek
    It can actualy come down simply to the pad material.
    ...semi-metalic pads from one maker aren't going to be the same as another maker.
    You've hit the nail on the head there.
    I run my bikes in mudfest conditions for about 10mths of a year. I have Juicy 7s on one bike and M775 XTs on another.
    The metal pads in the XTs lasted over 900km and that has included trips through muddles (mud+puddles) that are up to BB level on occasions. There is always grinding sounds upon exit but the pads last and last.
    The Juicy 7 stock metallic pads on the other hand have lasted less than ~150km riding in less severe conditions.

    The pads get run in on both bikes the same way (~15-20mins of brake-dragging/hard stops/cooling pads naturally/repeating until a noticeable improvement is evident).

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant

    Not sure if I mentioned before but dad is still on the hope pads that came with his bike and he probably covers more miles than most of these forumers put together.
    He must be retired if he rides as much as I do.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    He must be retired if he rides as much as I do.
    retired at 50. when you can ride 7 days a week those miles add up fast.

  39. #39
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    From my experience it's the mud that gets throw onto the rotors that eat away at the pads. Not much you can do about it but run heavier duty pads like metallic. If you are doing longer races remember to keep an eye on them and change them when needed.

  40. #40
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    Same here on the Hope's

    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    I raced syllamo's revenge last weekend. Anyone who was there will tell you that it was 50 miles of SLOP. My brakes still look good. When I finally replace my pads, it will be with the stock hope pads that came with the brakes. BTW, the brakes are '08 mono mini pros.

    I raced Syllamo also and after the clean up the pads looked no different than when I started, Hope Mini Pros also. I used the same brakes and pads at last years race also and it was quite muddy then also. Heard lots of people talking after the race about trashing their brakes but have never experienced any problems with factory Hope or Formula products.

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