As I was reading through many of the redundant threads in this forum, I noticed that they were redundant. (get it?)
First off, please, if you have ever used disc brakes of any sort, and would like this thread to grow to help many others, please take 2 minutes to contribute to this data base of the search for the perfect brake. If you don't want to read all of what I'm saying then don't, just fill out the convenient template found below. Also, if you have already posted in this forum, post again regarding your opinion, on this thread using the template below. THANKS!
So, my question; and everyone else's question boils down to ONE question: What are the best brakes on Earth? There might be a Hayes vs. Juicy or Magura vs. Hope thread, but this is only partial fulfillment of the question: What are the best brakes on Earth? The problem with the MTBR review of brakes is that they are overlapping older models with new ones, for example the "Hayes Disc Brakes" is too general, and older models contribute to the rating. This thread, will try to clear up these issues by listing various pros and cons of all the different disc brake models available today. Feel free to list as many hydraulic and mechanical models as you would like that you have THOROUGHLY tested or that your friends have tested.
To start out, let's try to agree on a common definition of what good modulation is, so there's no misinterpretation:
Modulation: By squeezing the brake lever within its entire range, you can control the amount of force applied to the brake in a linear fashion (or more accurately exponentially).
Example of good modulation:
You can lightly feather the brake on flat ground to maintain balance during wheelies, while also being able to apply more pressure to the lever and maintain a constant speed on steep downhills. Note that modulation is not related to the braking power.
Example of bad modulation:
On steep downhills, you may have experienced induced hysteresis from boil up when the brakes become very hot. This makes it so that the modulation suddenly changes and you now have much less power and control. Another example would be a brake that is either full on or full off.
The template should address each topic individually so that a non-biased rating can be given to each category. I am attempting to make this as systematic as I can and I'm hoping everyone that contributes could do the same.
Please only contribute to this thread if you have had at least an entire ride on a singletrack trail with plenty of downhill sections. This thread is intended for the all around; do anything disc brake. Everyone does trailriding, but not everyone races. In racing you look for the lightest brake and really don't worry about squealing or other things like that, but you race only about 5% of the time and trail ride 95%, so this is aiming toward just the best all around disc brake, for what ever kind of single track is in front of you.
Note: Higher number means more... i.e. more modulation, more power, easier maintenance, more frequent maintenance, more squealing, better feeling, more durable, more reliable. Also the ratings are out of 10 so as my example below shows, 2/10 would mean very little feathering modulation and 8/10 would mean it squeals a LOT in wet/dirty conditions.
HERE IS THE TEMPLATE. Just copy the text between the asterisks and fill in.
N/A = not sure or haven't tried it or not applicable
************************************
Brake model:
Feathering modulation:
Heavy downhill modulation:
Power:
Ease of maintenance:
Frequency of maintenance:
Squealing in dry conditions:
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions:
Vibrations:
Fade from overheating:
Drag:
Feeling of brake lever:
Durability:
Reliability:
Weight: (optional, since this is somewhat of a non-issue, when compared to all the aforementioned categories)
Overall love for this brake:
Anything else you can think of that I forgot:
Short description of experience with brake (Optional):
************************************
I am using the avid brakes right now, and my friend uses Deore hydraulic which feel remarkably good for being so cheap. Here are what I rate these brakes:
*********************************
Brake model: Avid mechanical BBDB '04: 7" front, 6" rear
Feathering modulation: 2/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 7/10
Power: 8/10
Ease of maintenance: 10/10
Frequency of maintenance: 6/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 1/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 8/10
Vibrations: 0/10
Fade from overheating: 2/10
Drag: 2/10 (when set up correctly)
Feeling of brake lever: 6/10 (for avid SD7)
Durability: 8/10
Reliability: 6/10
Overall love for this brake: 7/10
Short description of experience with brakes (Optional):
I have had great success with these brakes. I use the full metal jacket cable housing; they look cool but as I found out I would have preferred standard cable housing since they flex, which increases the modulation, whereas the full metal jacket housing gives more direct control over the brakes but I don't like them as much. The 6" rear 7" front is perfect for my weight being 200# as well as the type of riding I do. I ride the usual culprits in Moab and Fruita, many in which these disc brakes saved my life. A couple problems include the disc rotors being bent (I don't know if it's from a rock getting caught in the spokes of the rotor, or from braking too hard and warping it), and some very minor ::ting:: sounds from the bolts hitting the fork. Mr. Dremel took care of that nicely. When I let my friends ride my bike with these brakes, they got jolted from not being prepared for the amount of power compared to their own brakes. Another problem is that the contact of the brake pads with the rotors makes a slight scraping sound, whereas the Deore hydraulics didn't. One HUGE difference I noticed between the two brakes was the remarkably fluid feeling (quite literally) of the hydraulic brakes compared with the avid mechs.
*********************************
*********************************
Brake model: Shimano Deore hydraulic
Feathering modulation: 6/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 6/10
Power: 7/10
Ease of maintenance: 7/10
Frequency of maintenance: 2/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 2/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 3/10
Vibrations: N/A
Fade from overheating: N/A
Drag: 4/10
Feeling of brake lever (for hydraulic): 8/10
Durability: 8/10
Reliability: 8/10
Overall love for this brake: 8/10
Short description of experience with brakes (Optional):
These particular brakes are set and forget type of brakes. My friend never had to do maintenance for these brakes; basically set and forget, and the hydraulic feeling is simply far superior to mechanicals. They have a very progressive feeling that I believe is due to the feedback from the compression of the fluid. I almost never heard noise from his brakes, even when mine were squealing in the rain and his were stealth silent. Since I never ride in wet conditions I don't care if the Avids squeal when wet since they're normally very quiet if adjusted properly and in dry conditions.
*********************************
I notice the smallest noises and inconsistencies so I am the type as Pete Fagerlin puts it: "The type of person in search of the perfect ferrule" . I would like every component on my bike to fit together in perfect harmony to help me more readily obtain a state of "flow" (I love it when it happens), but a clanking sound or vibration can very easily throw me out of whack.
Common popular brakes:
Shimano: deore, 755 xt, 765 xt, xtr, saint (new)
SRAM: ...
Hayes: ...
Magura: Louise, Marta SL
Hope: mono 6ti, mono m4, mono mini
Avid: mechs, Juicy
Brembo: ...
From the looks of it the best brakes on earth will be the new Brembo brakes for MTBs, which retail around $1000 for a set. (For those who don't know, Brembo makes brakes for Ferraris and other top companies). If these do turn out to be the perfect set of brakes, then by all means I will throw away a couple days worth of work to get my hands on these. I am looking for the best brakes period, whatever the price, but this thread can be used for others looking for the best values, so it doesn't necessarily have to be the BEST brake for you to list it here.
Please make this a STICKY!!
Here's a cat and a fly... together... forever
First off, please, if you have ever used disc brakes of any sort, and would like this thread to grow to help many others, please take 2 minutes to contribute to this data base of the search for the perfect brake. If you don't want to read all of what I'm saying then don't, just fill out the convenient template found below. Also, if you have already posted in this forum, post again regarding your opinion, on this thread using the template below. THANKS!
So, my question; and everyone else's question boils down to ONE question: What are the best brakes on Earth? There might be a Hayes vs. Juicy or Magura vs. Hope thread, but this is only partial fulfillment of the question: What are the best brakes on Earth? The problem with the MTBR review of brakes is that they are overlapping older models with new ones, for example the "Hayes Disc Brakes" is too general, and older models contribute to the rating. This thread, will try to clear up these issues by listing various pros and cons of all the different disc brake models available today. Feel free to list as many hydraulic and mechanical models as you would like that you have THOROUGHLY tested or that your friends have tested.
To start out, let's try to agree on a common definition of what good modulation is, so there's no misinterpretation:
Modulation: By squeezing the brake lever within its entire range, you can control the amount of force applied to the brake in a linear fashion (or more accurately exponentially).
Example of good modulation:
You can lightly feather the brake on flat ground to maintain balance during wheelies, while also being able to apply more pressure to the lever and maintain a constant speed on steep downhills. Note that modulation is not related to the braking power.
Example of bad modulation:
On steep downhills, you may have experienced induced hysteresis from boil up when the brakes become very hot. This makes it so that the modulation suddenly changes and you now have much less power and control. Another example would be a brake that is either full on or full off.
The template should address each topic individually so that a non-biased rating can be given to each category. I am attempting to make this as systematic as I can and I'm hoping everyone that contributes could do the same.
Please only contribute to this thread if you have had at least an entire ride on a singletrack trail with plenty of downhill sections. This thread is intended for the all around; do anything disc brake. Everyone does trailriding, but not everyone races. In racing you look for the lightest brake and really don't worry about squealing or other things like that, but you race only about 5% of the time and trail ride 95%, so this is aiming toward just the best all around disc brake, for what ever kind of single track is in front of you.
Note: Higher number means more... i.e. more modulation, more power, easier maintenance, more frequent maintenance, more squealing, better feeling, more durable, more reliable. Also the ratings are out of 10 so as my example below shows, 2/10 would mean very little feathering modulation and 8/10 would mean it squeals a LOT in wet/dirty conditions.
HERE IS THE TEMPLATE. Just copy the text between the asterisks and fill in.
N/A = not sure or haven't tried it or not applicable
************************************
Brake model:
Feathering modulation:
Heavy downhill modulation:
Power:
Ease of maintenance:
Frequency of maintenance:
Squealing in dry conditions:
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions:
Vibrations:
Fade from overheating:
Drag:
Feeling of brake lever:
Durability:
Reliability:
Weight: (optional, since this is somewhat of a non-issue, when compared to all the aforementioned categories)
Overall love for this brake:
Anything else you can think of that I forgot:
Short description of experience with brake (Optional):
************************************
I am using the avid brakes right now, and my friend uses Deore hydraulic which feel remarkably good for being so cheap. Here are what I rate these brakes:
*********************************
Brake model: Avid mechanical BBDB '04: 7" front, 6" rear
Feathering modulation: 2/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 7/10
Power: 8/10
Ease of maintenance: 10/10
Frequency of maintenance: 6/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 1/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 8/10
Vibrations: 0/10
Fade from overheating: 2/10
Drag: 2/10 (when set up correctly)
Feeling of brake lever: 6/10 (for avid SD7)
Durability: 8/10
Reliability: 6/10
Overall love for this brake: 7/10
Short description of experience with brakes (Optional):
I have had great success with these brakes. I use the full metal jacket cable housing; they look cool but as I found out I would have preferred standard cable housing since they flex, which increases the modulation, whereas the full metal jacket housing gives more direct control over the brakes but I don't like them as much. The 6" rear 7" front is perfect for my weight being 200# as well as the type of riding I do. I ride the usual culprits in Moab and Fruita, many in which these disc brakes saved my life. A couple problems include the disc rotors being bent (I don't know if it's from a rock getting caught in the spokes of the rotor, or from braking too hard and warping it), and some very minor ::ting:: sounds from the bolts hitting the fork. Mr. Dremel took care of that nicely. When I let my friends ride my bike with these brakes, they got jolted from not being prepared for the amount of power compared to their own brakes. Another problem is that the contact of the brake pads with the rotors makes a slight scraping sound, whereas the Deore hydraulics didn't. One HUGE difference I noticed between the two brakes was the remarkably fluid feeling (quite literally) of the hydraulic brakes compared with the avid mechs.
*********************************
*********************************
Brake model: Shimano Deore hydraulic
Feathering modulation: 6/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 6/10
Power: 7/10
Ease of maintenance: 7/10
Frequency of maintenance: 2/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 2/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 3/10
Vibrations: N/A
Fade from overheating: N/A
Drag: 4/10
Feeling of brake lever (for hydraulic): 8/10
Durability: 8/10
Reliability: 8/10
Overall love for this brake: 8/10
Short description of experience with brakes (Optional):
These particular brakes are set and forget type of brakes. My friend never had to do maintenance for these brakes; basically set and forget, and the hydraulic feeling is simply far superior to mechanicals. They have a very progressive feeling that I believe is due to the feedback from the compression of the fluid. I almost never heard noise from his brakes, even when mine were squealing in the rain and his were stealth silent. Since I never ride in wet conditions I don't care if the Avids squeal when wet since they're normally very quiet if adjusted properly and in dry conditions.
*********************************
I notice the smallest noises and inconsistencies so I am the type as Pete Fagerlin puts it: "The type of person in search of the perfect ferrule" . I would like every component on my bike to fit together in perfect harmony to help me more readily obtain a state of "flow" (I love it when it happens), but a clanking sound or vibration can very easily throw me out of whack.
Common popular brakes:
Shimano: deore, 755 xt, 765 xt, xtr, saint (new)
SRAM: ...
Hayes: ...
Magura: Louise, Marta SL
Hope: mono 6ti, mono m4, mono mini
Avid: mechs, Juicy
Brembo: ...
From the looks of it the best brakes on earth will be the new Brembo brakes for MTBs, which retail around $1000 for a set. (For those who don't know, Brembo makes brakes for Ferraris and other top companies). If these do turn out to be the perfect set of brakes, then by all means I will throw away a couple days worth of work to get my hands on these. I am looking for the best brakes period, whatever the price, but this thread can be used for others looking for the best values, so it doesn't necessarily have to be the BEST brake for you to list it here.
Please make this a STICKY!!
Here's a cat and a fly... together... forever