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What are the BEST brakes on EARTH?!

7K views 40 replies 23 participants last post by  Brianjonesphoto 
#1 ·
As I was reading through many of the redundant threads in this forum, I noticed that they were redundant. (get it?)

First off, please, if you have ever used disc brakes of any sort, and would like this thread to grow to help many others, please take 2 minutes to contribute to this data base of the search for the perfect brake. If you don't want to read all of what I'm saying then don't, just fill out the convenient template found below. Also, if you have already posted in this forum, post again regarding your opinion, on this thread using the template below. THANKS!

So, my question; and everyone else's question boils down to ONE question: What are the best brakes on Earth? There might be a Hayes vs. Juicy or Magura vs. Hope thread, but this is only partial fulfillment of the question: What are the best brakes on Earth? The problem with the MTBR review of brakes is that they are overlapping older models with new ones, for example the "Hayes Disc Brakes" is too general, and older models contribute to the rating. This thread, will try to clear up these issues by listing various pros and cons of all the different disc brake models available today. Feel free to list as many hydraulic and mechanical models as you would like that you have THOROUGHLY tested or that your friends have tested.

To start out, let's try to agree on a common definition of what good modulation is, so there's no misinterpretation:

Modulation: By squeezing the brake lever within its entire range, you can control the amount of force applied to the brake in a linear fashion (or more accurately exponentially).

Example of good modulation:
You can lightly feather the brake on flat ground to maintain balance during wheelies, while also being able to apply more pressure to the lever and maintain a constant speed on steep downhills. Note that modulation is not related to the braking power.

Example of bad modulation:
On steep downhills, you may have experienced induced hysteresis from boil up when the brakes become very hot. This makes it so that the modulation suddenly changes and you now have much less power and control. Another example would be a brake that is either full on or full off.

The template should address each topic individually so that a non-biased rating can be given to each category. I am attempting to make this as systematic as I can and I'm hoping everyone that contributes could do the same.

Please only contribute to this thread if you have had at least an entire ride on a singletrack trail with plenty of downhill sections. This thread is intended for the all around; do anything disc brake. Everyone does trailriding, but not everyone races. In racing you look for the lightest brake and really don't worry about squealing or other things like that, but you race only about 5% of the time and trail ride 95%, so this is aiming toward just the best all around disc brake, for what ever kind of single track is in front of you.

Note: Higher number means more... i.e. more modulation, more power, easier maintenance, more frequent maintenance, more squealing, better feeling, more durable, more reliable. Also the ratings are out of 10 so as my example below shows, 2/10 would mean very little feathering modulation and 8/10 would mean it squeals a LOT in wet/dirty conditions.

HERE IS THE TEMPLATE. Just copy the text between the asterisks and fill in.
N/A = not sure or haven't tried it or not applicable

************************************
Brake model:

Feathering modulation:
Heavy downhill modulation:
Power:
Ease of maintenance:
Frequency of maintenance:
Squealing in dry conditions:
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions:
Vibrations:
Fade from overheating:
Drag:
Feeling of brake lever:
Durability:
Reliability:
Weight: (optional, since this is somewhat of a non-issue, when compared to all the aforementioned categories)
Overall love for this brake:
Anything else you can think of that I forgot:

Short description of experience with brake (Optional):

************************************


I am using the avid brakes right now, and my friend uses Deore hydraulic which feel remarkably good for being so cheap. Here are what I rate these brakes:

*********************************
Brake model: Avid mechanical BBDB '04: 7" front, 6" rear
Feathering modulation: 2/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 7/10
Power: 8/10
Ease of maintenance: 10/10
Frequency of maintenance: 6/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 1/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 8/10
Vibrations: 0/10
Fade from overheating: 2/10
Drag: 2/10 (when set up correctly)
Feeling of brake lever: 6/10 (for avid SD7)
Durability: 8/10
Reliability: 6/10
Overall love for this brake: 7/10

Short description of experience with brakes (Optional):

I have had great success with these brakes. I use the full metal jacket cable housing; they look cool but as I found out I would have preferred standard cable housing since they flex, which increases the modulation, whereas the full metal jacket housing gives more direct control over the brakes but I don't like them as much. The 6" rear 7" front is perfect for my weight being 200# as well as the type of riding I do. I ride the usual culprits in Moab and Fruita, many in which these disc brakes saved my life. A couple problems include the disc rotors being bent (I don't know if it's from a rock getting caught in the spokes of the rotor, or from braking too hard and warping it), and some very minor ::ting:: sounds from the bolts hitting the fork. Mr. Dremel took care of that nicely. When I let my friends ride my bike with these brakes, they got jolted from not being prepared for the amount of power compared to their own brakes. Another problem is that the contact of the brake pads with the rotors makes a slight scraping sound, whereas the Deore hydraulics didn't. One HUGE difference I noticed between the two brakes was the remarkably fluid feeling (quite literally) of the hydraulic brakes compared with the avid mechs.
*********************************

*********************************
Brake model: Shimano Deore hydraulic

Feathering modulation: 6/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 6/10
Power: 7/10
Ease of maintenance: 7/10
Frequency of maintenance: 2/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 2/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 3/10
Vibrations: N/A
Fade from overheating: N/A
Drag: 4/10
Feeling of brake lever (for hydraulic): 8/10
Durability: 8/10
Reliability: 8/10
Overall love for this brake: 8/10

Short description of experience with brakes (Optional):
These particular brakes are set and forget type of brakes. My friend never had to do maintenance for these brakes; basically set and forget, and the hydraulic feeling is simply far superior to mechanicals. They have a very progressive feeling that I believe is due to the feedback from the compression of the fluid. I almost never heard noise from his brakes, even when mine were squealing in the rain and his were stealth silent. Since I never ride in wet conditions I don't care if the Avids squeal when wet since they're normally very quiet if adjusted properly and in dry conditions.
*********************************

I notice the smallest noises and inconsistencies so I am the type as Pete Fagerlin puts it: "The type of person in search of the perfect ferrule" :rolleyes: . I would like every component on my bike to fit together in perfect harmony to help me more readily obtain a state of "flow" (I love it when it happens), but a clanking sound or vibration can very easily throw me out of whack.

Common popular brakes:
Shimano: deore, 755 xt, 765 xt, xtr, saint (new)
SRAM: ...
Hayes: ...
Magura: Louise, Marta SL
Hope: mono 6ti, mono m4, mono mini
Avid: mechs, Juicy
Brembo: ...

From the looks of it the best brakes on earth will be the new Brembo brakes for MTBs, which retail around $1000 for a set. (For those who don't know, Brembo makes brakes for Ferraris and other top companies). If these do turn out to be the perfect set of brakes, then by all means I will throw away a couple days worth of work to get my hands on these. I am looking for the best brakes period, whatever the price, but this thread can be used for others looking for the best values, so it doesn't necessarily have to be the BEST brake for you to list it here.

Please make this a STICKY!!

Here's a cat and a fly... together... forever
 

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#2 · (Edited)
Brake model: Avid mechanical BBDB 160mm rotors
Feathering modulation: 5/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 6/10
Power: 8/10
Ease of maintenance: 9/10
Frequency of maintenance: 7/10 (pads would require readjustment after one heavy DH run)
Squealing in dry conditions: 2/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 4/10
Vibrations: 0/10
Fade from overheating: 8/10
Drag: 2/10
Feeling of brake lever: 6/10
Durability: 7/10
Reliability: 7/10 (long term durability and reliability, ~2+ seasons)
Overall love for this brake: 6.5/10

These are ok disc brakes, a big improvement over Vs, but they do fade quite a bit on longer DH stretches, and they eat up pads like crazy in my experience (at least compared to good hayes and hope hydros). These things always had enough power, but the fade issue made them somewhat of a pain. After a little over 2 seasons these things started falling apart, the pad adjusters would back on on longer DH stretches leaving me with no brake power all of a sudden. They are budget disc brakes, and they work ok for a while. They are also about half a pound heavier than most other hydro brake systems. Still, for the money they can't really be beat, especially if you are trying to put together a cheap DH bike with the 203mm rotors. The brakes will get the job done.

Brake model: Avid mechanical BBDB '03 203mm rotors
Feathering modulation: 3/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 7/10
Power: 9.5/10
Ease of maintenance: 9/10
Frequency of maintenance: 6/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 2/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 2/10
Vibrations: 0/10
Fade from overheating: 5/10
Drag: 2/10
Feeling of brake lever: 6/10
Durability: 7/10
Reliability: 7/10
Overall love for this brake: 7/10

The 203 rotors helped somewhat with the fade issue of the 160s, but the modulation was decreased. Less fade translated into longer pad life, but it wasn't a huge improvement in pad life. This thing basically had too much power, and not enough modulation. You needed a very beefy with lots of tread, otherwise the front end would just lock up and go sliding.

Brake model: Hayes Mag '03: 6" front, 6" rear
Feathering modulation: 7/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 7/10
Power: 7.5/10
Ease of maintenance: 8/10 (hayes "centering" doesn't really work, caliper shifts during process)
Frequency of maintenance: 1/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 4/10 (when heated up to insane temps, they did squeel a little, this was a very extreme situation)
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 5/10
Vibrations: 0/10
Fade from overheating: 5/10
Drag: 2/10
Feeling of brake lever: 7/10 (it's partially preference of course)
Durability: 9/10
Reliability: 9/10
Overall love for this brake: 8/10

These have changed my mind as to how I like hayes, although I don't share the same views on my 8" DH models, these things do very nicely, resist fade MUCH better than my avids ever did, and still provide a good amount of power. There is a very "crisp" feeling at the lever, but they are not nearly as on and off as earlier 8" models were.

Brake model: Hope DH4 '2000: 185mm front, 185mm rear
Feathering modulation: 9/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 8/10
Power: 9.5/10
Ease of maintenance: 10/10
Frequency of maintenance: 1/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 3/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 5/10
Vibrations: 0/10
Fade from overheating: 1/10
Drag: 3/10
Feeling of brake lever: 8/10
Durability: 10/10
Reliability: 10/10
Overall love for this brake: 9/10

I should never have shold the Hope DH4s. They were excellent brakes.

Brake model: Hayes HFX-9 '03: 8" front, 8" rear
Feathering modulation: 6/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 7/10
Power: 9/10
Ease of maintenance: 8/10
Frequency of maintenance: 2/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 2/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 4/10
Vibrations: 0/10
Fade from overheating: 4/10
Drag: 3/10
Feeling of brake lever: 6.5/10
Durability: 8/10
Reliability: 9/10
Overall love for this brake: 7/10

The Hayes HFX-9s get the job done, but I wish I still had the hopes, they were better in every way.



Brake model: Magura Gustav M '00: 8" front, 8" rear
Feathering modulation: 10/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 10/10
Power: 11/10
Ease of maintenance: 7/10
Frequency of maintenance: 8/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 1/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 1/10
Vibrations: 0/10
Fade from overheating: 1/10
Drag: 2/10
Feeling of brake lever: 10/10
Durability: 7/10
Reliability: 3/10
Overall love for this brake: 4/10

Just not reliable enough, always got little microscopic leaks even after a few line changes and such.

How about some of my old V-brakes?;

Brake model: Shimano XT V-brake, 99:
Feathering modulation: 3/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 2/10
Power: 8/10
Ease of maintenance: 7/10
Frequency of maintenance: 7/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 0/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 0/10
Vibrations: 0/10
Fade from overheating: 8/10
Drag: 2/10 (if your rim goes out of true slightly...well, you remember what happens...)
Feeling of brake lever: 4/10
Durability: 7/10
Reliability: 6/10
Overall love for this brake: 5/10


Brake model: Avid SD1.0 '00:
Feathering modulation: 4/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 2/10
Power: 8/10
Ease of maintenance: 8/10
Frequency of maintenance: 7/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 0/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 0/10
Vibrations: 0/10
Fade from overheating: 8/10
Drag: 2/10
Feeling of brake lever: 5/10
Durability: 8/10
Reliability: 6/10
Overall love for this brake: 5/10

These avids were way cheaper than the XTs, but performed at least as well. No stupid parallel linkage, just a clean simple V brake.


Overall the best brakes I've used are the Hope DH4s. Hopes self-bleeding process is a big plus, they always had great modulation, and they were dead reliable. The Hayes Mags come in a close second, but I'm using the mags for XC and I don't know how they'd stand up using them for full on DH like I did with the hopes.

The worst brakes were the magura gustav M. They were just junky, my buddy got some new gustavs around the same time that I had mine, and a critical bolt from the lever fell out on his first run. Mine would get micro-leaks that allowed air to get into the system, leaving me with no brakes during the first or second lever pull in a braking situation. I tried to make them work several times, but finally gave up.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Brake model: Hayes HFX-9 DH with 8" Rotors...

Feathering modulation: 5/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 5/10
Power: 5/10
Ease of maintenance: 5/10
Frequency of maintenance: 5/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 5/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 2/10
Vibrations: N/A
Fade from overheating: 4/10
Drag: 5/10
Feeling of brake lever (for hydraulic): 2/10
Durability: 5/10
Reliability: 5/10
Overall love for this brake: 5/10

Brake model: Shimano DEORE Hydraulic with 6" Rotors...

Feathering modulation: 8/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 6/10
Power: 6/10
Ease of maintenance: 6/10
Frequency of maintenance: 8/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 8/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 4/10
Vibrations: N/A
Fade from overheating: 6/10
Drag: 6/10
Feeling of brake lever (for hydraulic): 7/10
Durability: 7/10
Reliability: 7/10
Overall love for this brake: 7/10

out of these 2 brakes ive used in the last 2 years my favourites were the DEOREs...the levers are more comfortable (better for 1 finger braking) and have much better modulation...the HFX-9s are just there to get the job done and not do it in any paticular style or with any grace for that matter...

the DEOREs were on a GT Ruckus i-Drive set-up for 4x and the HFX-9s are on my DEMO9 which is set-up for DH...im replacing the HFX-9s as soon as possible...with Shimano Saint Brakes...
 
#4 ·
No need for Avid reviews...

Thanks for getting this thread started. Looks good so far but from now on we can EXCLUDE the avid mechs in this thread to keep it a little bit shorter, since there have already been 5 trillion reviews for this brake, plus i'm sure almost everyone has at least tried these brakes out by now. Keep em' comming!
 
#5 · (Edited)
Hayes so1e

Brake model: Hayes '05 so1e: 6" front, 6" rear (single piston)
Scale 1=Bad 10=Excellent
Feathering modulation: 6/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 6/10
Power: 7/10
Ease of maintenance: 8/10
Frequency of maintenance: 2/10 (Constantly fixing grub screw in levers, otherwise maintnenace free)
Squealing in dry conditions: 8/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 7/10
Vibrations: 2/10 (Front vibrates during light braking)
Fade from overheating: 7/10
Drag: 8/10
Feeling of brake lever: 7/10 (When the grub screw stays put)
Durability: 9/10
Reliability: 9/10
Overall love for this brake: 8/10

I have been riding on these for 4 months, daily, nearly always on a track, still waiting to try either plumbers tape or loctite blue to fix the grub screw.
Overall reeasonably happy with these, very simple to adjust inner pad position with hex key have not had a fade out yet and I am 220#
I am in the process of looking at Hope M4's or the new Hayes.
The so1e's are definatley not the greatest brakes on earth, I just added them to the review for comparison.
 
#6 ·
Tasteless said:
Brake model: Hayes '05 so1e: 6" front, 6" rear (single piston)
I think your confused about what the original poster wanted, by your ratings you are saying your brakes fade a lot, have a lot of drag, and that they squeal a lot.

1=very little

10=a lot.

8/10 for fade means they fade a lot.

It's wierd, and I think really soon we are going to have way too much info in this thread, but that's what the guy wanted.
 
#7 ·
Brake model: Hayes HFX9 6inch rotors. With Metallic pads.

Feathering modulation:4
Heavy downhill modulation:7
Power:8
Ease of maintenance:5
Frequency of maintenance:7
Squealing in dry conditions:4
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions:3
Vibrations:4
Fade from overheating:5
Drag:8
Feeling of brake lever: 4
Durability:7
Reliability:6
Weight: 6
Overall love for this brake:6


Short description of experience with brake (Optional):


I've had them for probably 15months, 3000km's. Have had the rear bled once due to leakage, replace the sintered pads at 2000km's. The rear leaks from the master cyclinder from time to time. I can't get the rear to stop rubbing, I had to use shims to space it out enough for my CK hub.

It looks like I may get Magura Marta SL's soon. Although there are some mixed reviews about these brakes(and about every single other brake!).

I'm not going to go into great detail.. but Hayes Sole... Don't really compare to the HFX9's which aren't all that great themselves. I would also rate Shimano brakes slightly ahead of Hayes HX9.
 
#8 ·
Forgive me for not using numbers.
************************************
Brake model: Shimano XT/XTR disk brakes - Resin/Metallic combo - 6" Fr and Rr

Feathering modulation: Its very nice 7/10 or so
Heavy downhill modulation: As above.
Power:
Ease of maintenance: Bleed is piece of cake. Realignment seems a little slow
Frequency of maintenance:Rarely
Squealing in dry conditions: None
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions:None
Vibrations:None that I am really honestly aware of
Fade from overheating: Rare but on overly long heavy breaking sessions you'll get some but its not concerning./b]
Drag: ???
Feeling of brake lever: Perfection. Always very nice and there is minimal difference between left and right or rear and front
Durability: Great actually - even that fancy finish
Reliability: Initially utter crap, but once warranty replaced brilliant. No issues in about 10 months
Overall love for this brake: I wanted to change them, but now they work so well that I couldn't get rid of them. Shimanos are too good to be honest when it comes to bleeding and breaking for the money and the application (XC)
Anything else you can think of that I forgot:

Short description of experience with brake (Optional):

The very first load of these that shimano sold were utter shite with mud and sticking pistons. The replacement pair are perfect. Current XTR stuff is fine. Love mine, and have no reason to get rid of them.
 
#9 ·
It looks like I may get Magura Marta SL's soon. Although there are some mixed reviews about these brakes(and about every single other brake!).
That is exactly what I would like this thread to clear up!

JM, thanks for pointing that out. Yes, higher numbers means more (not necessarily better). However I'm starting to think I should have arranged that differently, but read the text right before the template on the first post to understand how the rating works. Thanks for all your posts.
 
#11 ·
Magura Marta SL

Brake model: magura marta sl

Feathering modulation: perfectly acceptable
Heavy downhill modulation: sometimes get stiff after extremely long downhills
Power: perfect
Ease of maintenance: nightmare??
Frequency of maintenance: front: never rear: always; rips through expensive pads quickly
Squealing in dry conditions: 10/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 10/10
Vibrations: rear vibrates occasionally
Fade from overheating: 8/10 - faded once in a years use on a hill most were walking
Drag: 5/10 - occasionally rub but not bad enough to bother me
Feeling of brake lever: 10 in good coditions; 0 in bad conditions
Durability: seem strong, carbon levers have taken serious shots from rocks, etc
Reliability: 4/10
Weight: (optional, since this is somewhat of a non-issue, when compared to all the aforementioned categories)
Overall love for this brake: The front is pure love except in poor conditions when the lever blade basically loses all modulation but still stops fine with pressure on the blade. the rear has been a nightmare. numerous mechanics have tried to fix it and it still is completely dead(meaning no response when lever is pulled to the bar.) the first one appeared to leak oil, and the second seems to be doing the same thing. magura shipped me a new lever system for the front and it was dead after bleeding but i don't trust the mechanic so shall bleed it myself when I get my stand back. the brakes have amazing power and modulation, but like I said before the modulation disappears when in adverse conditions. The performance pads wear down REALLY fast in mud and grime. i've gone through a brand new set in one days epic-style riding(60 dollars!!) the pads ALWAYS wear unevenly as well making this problem even worse since one side will be at 75% while the other is near the metal. i've tried all the fixes to no avail.
 
#12 ·
I have to say that Spooky illustrates the near futility in this exercise. Imagine two Marta owners, one with a set of brakes like Spooky's front, and one with a set like Spooky's rear. A lot of the ratings would be heavily flavored by their level of satisfaction and you would get totally different results across the board for the two guys rating the same brakes. Throw in a few different rotor, model year, pad compound, rider weight, and bike setup differences, and you have the makings for some serious confusion.

My vote for the best on earth? Juicys in dry conditions, no question. Magura FR in wet conditions (assuming the pads last a few months).
 
#13 ·
tscheezy said:
I have to say that Spooky illustrates the near futility in this exercise. Imagine two Marta owners, one with a set of brakes like Spooky's front, and one with a set like Spooky's rear. A lot of the ratings would be heavily flavored by their level of satisfaction and you would get totally different results across the board for the two guys rating the same brakes. Throw in a few different rotor, model year, pad compound, rider weight, and bike setup differences, and you have the makings for some serious confusion.

My vote for the best on earth? Juicys in dry conditions, no question. Magura FR in wet conditions (assuming the pads last a few months).
Agreed, but trends may develop with numerous people reporting the same problem thus saving many people the headache I've gone through. I've given up and generally just ride with only my front brake working - at least for the past few months while I debate whether I want to get XT/XTR or hope mono mini's or do the last resort/one last chance thing and mail my entire rear brake to Magura for them to fix. I admit some of the problems have been caused by me because the pads wore down to the metal on a few long rides in bad conditions which I think introduced air in to the system. Of course, I was unaware they were grinding away as quickly as they were, but still I should've been checking. A guy on juicy 7's with me had the same problem with his rear brake. also the modulation was crap on the levers just like mine. a guy with hope mono mini's had zero problems, levers felt like new, and his pads were not wearing down like the avid's and mine. the other poor soul in our brutal epic had V brakes and he was fine, besides the fact his rims were trashed(rhino lites worn all the way through) after the days ride.

FWIW, magura's customer service is very good.
 
#18 ·
Hope brakes are notorious for squealing....

Tasteless said:
Could someone using the Hopes Mini's. M4's or 6's submit a review.
General consensus is a lot of people are looking at these as an alternative.
TIA
Hope brakes take quite bit of attention to detail to setup correctly. (Using a micrometer to judge spacing so everything is dead nuts on.) Even with precision setup the Mono M4 squeal like a pig and create enough vibration that it makes very unpleasant. Currently Hope is attempting to fix my set of M4s. They may be fixing my issues as we speak.

As for the Mono Mini's they are good brakes occasionally a few chirps, but not as bad as some that I've heard.
 
#19 ·
Really this whole thing means nothing, if it comes up that say a Marta SL is the best brake on earth what good does that do a down hill racer, none. There is no such thing as a best brake, because there are too many variables, everyones hands are different, eveyones riding styles are different. A cool experiment yes, but in the end what is good for one person is not always going to be good for the next.
 
#20 ·
My experience exactly with the Marta brake...

Spookykinkajou said:
Brake model: magura marta sl

Feathering modulation: perfectly acceptable
Heavy downhill modulation: sometimes get stiff after extremely long downhills
Power: perfect
Ease of maintenance: nightmare??
Frequency of maintenance: front: never rear: always; rips through expensive pads quickly
Squealing in dry conditions: 10/10
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 10/10
Vibrations: rear vibrates occasionally
Fade from overheating: 8/10 - faded once in a years use on a hill most were walking
Drag: 5/10 - occasionally rub but not bad enough to bother me
Feeling of brake lever: 10 in good coditions; 0 in bad conditions
Durability: seem strong, carbon levers have taken serious shots from rocks, etc
Reliability: 4/10
Weight: (optional, since this is somewhat of a non-issue, when compared to all the aforementioned categories)
Overall love for this brake: The front is pure love except in poor conditions when the lever blade basically loses all modulation but still stops fine with pressure on the blade. the rear has been a nightmare. numerous mechanics have tried to fix it and it still is completely dead(meaning no response when lever is pulled to the bar.) the first one appeared to leak oil, and the second seems to be doing the same thing. magura shipped me a new lever system for the front and it was dead after bleeding but i don't trust the mechanic so shall bleed it myself when I get my stand back. the brakes have amazing power and modulation, but like I said before the modulation disappears when in adverse conditions. The performance pads wear down REALLY fast in mud and grime. i've gone through a brand new set in one days epic-style riding(60 dollars!!) the pads ALWAYS wear unevenly as well making this problem even worse since one side will be at 75% while the other is near the metal. i've tried all the fixes to no avail.
The rear pads got eaten up like expensive candy in wet weather. I was replacing pads almost monthly in the winter months. That sucked! I tried the Endurance pads but those were not hugely better. Nonetheless, a light, good modulating braking system.

I'm running Hayes and loving 'em despite a certain amount of wood feeling.

Jaybo
 
#21 · (Edited)
Shimano Saints

Brake model: Shimano Saint 8" rotor non-metallic pad

Feathering modulation: 10/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 10/10 Super control in bad technical sections!
Power: 10/10 Only need 1 or 2 fingers where my Hayes HFX 6" needed hard pull from all four fingers to slow my big ass down steep hills
Ease of maintenance: none yet - 3 months
Frequency of maintenance: same
Squealing in dry conditions: 0/10 No squealing ever
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 1/10 squealed once after very wide and 3' deep stream crossing
Vibrations: 2/10 Got some pulsations from disk rub once in a while after heavy braking. goes away in a few minutes
Fade from overheating: 0/10 None even for my 300# going down steep continuous 3000' decents with heavy braking
Drag: 2/10 Once in a while as above on vibrations. Goes away quickly before I can figure it out.
Feeling of brake lever: 5/10 Lever's too small on my Dual Control, but only need 1 or 2 fingers anyway
Durability: 10/10 Haven't needed to repair anything (not even bent rotor) yet in 300 miles of hard technical riding
Reliability: 10/10 Nothig broken in 300 miles, 3 months of hard technical
Overall love for this brake: 10/10

Short description of experience with brake (Optional): I got the Shimano Saint 8" brake on my new Heckler because my Hayes were taking hard 4 finger pull force and completely fading out on me on decents over 1000' and the rotors were always bending out of place. The Saint's power, lack of fade, modulation, strength, and lack of squeal are greatly superior to the Hayes HFX Comp on my Fuel (which weren't bad - the Saints are just super). I don't rate these old Hayes because I don't think this model is made any more.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Shimano Saint disc brakes...

Oooo, I was hoping I could get info on the Saint brakes. Thanks Larry. This is exactly what this thread is trying to clear up. Finding brakes that are good for WHOEVER. It allows us to look what everyone's experience was with certain brakes, and make our own judgment. When I labelled this thread as "best brake in the world" that is a cliche, to whomever finds information on brakes that pertain to their riding styles, not necessarily a singular brake; one fits all kind of thing. I would like to hear more experiences with the newer 05 brakes, including the Saints, and hopefully this thread will still be active when the Hayes' El Caminas come out.
 
#25 ·
norwoosg said:
BigLarry, Have you used the avid mechs? If so, can you compare the Saints with the avids? :confused:

Also, are the Saints really heavy? made for downhill use..?
I haven't used the mechnicals, so I can't compare.

The Saint's don't look much heavier to me. Whereas most of the Saint mechanical line is a lot beefier and heavier, the brakes only seem to have a slight amount more metal to help with thermal dissipation. Look at the specs on Shimano's web site here. http://www.ridesaint.com/

Another thing. I have a standard quick release and XT hubs and use adaptors for the 8" Saint dics that work just fine. In other words, I didn't need to go to the 20 mm axles and Saint hubs to use the Saint disc brakes. I wanted the standard skewer to use the Marzocchi All Mountain 1 fork, which doesn't come in 20 mm axle, but is nevertheless rated for 8" discs.
 
#26 · (Edited)
2004 Hope Mini Mono

Tasteless said:
Could someone using the Hopes Mini's. M4's or 6's submit a review.
General consensus is a lot of people are looking at these as an alternative.
TIA
i use 2004 Hope Mini Mono on the front. (Avid Single Digit Ti. v-brake on rear)

Feathering modulation: 10/10
Heavy downhill modulation: 9/10
Power: 7/10
Ease of maintenance: 10/10
Frequency of maintenance: 10/10
Squealing in dry conditions: 9/10 ( squeals some in dusty trails)
Squealing in wet/dirty conditions: 8/10 (once dry, quiets up)
Vibrations: 10/10
Fade from overheating: 9/10
Drag: 10/10
Feeling of brake lever: 10/10
Durability: 10/10 (note: have used for only 12 months)
Reliability: 10/10
Weight: 9/10 (a marta sl is lighter)
Overall love for this brake: 9/10
Anything else: long front hydro line...i'd like tro cut this line down and get fork a tab that secure the line better. now there's a 180mm rotor avail. on dry trails with not much dust the mino mono's quiet.

my conclusion, great for serious xc racing or general xc trail riding. otherwise get hope m4 instead for aggressive xc riding. true weight weenies may prefer a marta sl
 
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