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  1. #1
    The UseLess Program Guy
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    V-Brakes: Why not?

    Why don't we use some high-end V's on some bikes? XTR V's are very good, Single Digit stuff, heck even Tektro V's work. Why not? And where are all those hydraulic V's?
    I don't believe that humans can change. Seen it, though.

  2. #2
    I am a pathetic rider...
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    some ppl do, and magura makes hydraulic brakes for the trials crowd. Personally I get way more power from my disks, and I like being able to ride out the trail on a rim that is slightly out of true. V-brakes have their place because they are lighter and put less demands on the wheel.
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  3. #3
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    I've never really understood the 'power' argument. Can anyone explain exactly what that means? I rode V brakes for years, and I never had a situation where I didn't have enough 'power' to stop the bike. With V brakes, in any situation I felt I would have no problem locking up either wheel if I so desired (tried to avoid this with the front wheel though...). I can't recall ever feeling as if I needed more power in my fingers to pull the levers back.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEETROOT
    I've never really understood the 'power' argument. Can anyone explain exactly what that means? I rode V brakes for years, and I never had a situation where I didn't have enough 'power' to stop the bike. With V brakes, in any situation I felt I would have no problem locking up either wheel if I so desired (tried to avoid this with the front wheel though...). I can't recall ever feeling as if I needed more power in my fingers to pull the levers back.
    Yeah, same here - even when my cables and casings are all cruddy. If you can lock'em up as is, more power ain't gonna help you.

    Having said that, my spare bike has some cheap disks, and I must say I got spoiled while my primary bike was in the shop for a few weeks. It took some getting used to, and I locked up way too easily at first (at times dangerously). But once I developed the required soft touch, I got to liking it.

    Bottom line is, whatever you get used to will work fine. Spoil yourself if you've got the $$, but it really isn't necessary.

  5. #5
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soviet123
    Why don't we use some high-end V's on some bikes? XTR V's are very good, Single Digit stuff, heck even Tektro V's work. Why not? And where are all those hydraulic V's?
    Because discs work better?

  6. #6
    Old man on a bike
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    Aren't you the same guy buying a bike with cheap mechanical discs?

    No doubt good v's work great and really suffice for most people's riding needs whether we admit it or not

    Now hook up some good v's with ceramic rims and pads and it gets even better. Still, for wet conditions and big descents I'll take discs still...
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  7. #7
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    Disks require less finger pressure for the same stopping power.
    Compare to power brakes of modern cars vs non-vacuum assisted brakes. Power steering. etc.
    Long downhills benefit from disks. Clydes that weigh over 200lbs and 45lb DH rigs benefit.

  8. #8
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    try riding steep downhills with vbrakes. sure you might stop and have plenty of clamping power to safely make it, but your hands will hurt, bad. thats why most of us have discs.

    i dont understand the weeny 140mm discs though, seems counterproductive.

  9. #9
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    I'm actually in favor of V brakes. I don't like the feel of discs because I can't get accustomed to them. Also, V brakes are a lot better for doing endos and stuff like that. Like previously posted in this thread, I've never encountered a scenario where I felt like my V brakes wouldn't be able to come through and do exactly what I needed.
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  10. #10
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    I liked my Vs, feckin' loved my HS33s, but switched to disc brakes a few years back because rim brakes suck in muddy conditions. If it wasn't for UK muddy trails I think I'd still be using Maguras today.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

  11. #11
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    ...because i'm fat....
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  12. #12
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    Disc advantages: All-weather/conditions, rim wear, brake pad wear, longer stopping power
    V-Brake advantages: Lighter, some say better modulation (though I've heard the argument both ways)

    For XC in dry, non sandy conditions, v-brakes are great. For everywhere else, I like discs
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.
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  13. #13
    Old man on a bike
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    Brake pad wear longer on discs? Don't know about that in my own experience, but hard to quantify, never kept records. Am sure I spend more on disc pads than I did on v-brake pads (being twice the cost that's easy I suppose, though).
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  14. #14
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    i run both, for me the advantages of each are...

    disk: low maintenance,doesnt make grinding noises after a creek crossing,feel cool,more rim options.

    Vs. easy maintanance, light,looks perfect on my steel HT,cheaper.

  15. #15
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    Have you ever gone through a puddle at below freezing temps? You break through the thin ice and the water freezes on your rims. Try it and will find new appreciation for discs. Wheel gets dinged out of true and you still have brakes. My V's were good but they can't compete with my 8" rotor up front and a 3000' descent. One finger all day long, even at Whistler. If you want a light and cheap xc setup then V's start to look good.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  16. #16
    The UseLess Program Guy
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    Hmm. Get this: I had a Raleigh Tora (department store crud bike) with plastic V's. Now in Quebec, winters go below -30C. Right? I stopped it easy at a 9% descent. Heard about some guy with a Specialized Hardrock (or hopper?) and the disc brake (cable action) pads were frozen and could not move. Thinking...
    PS: Saw these used Deore V's for 30$. Parallel push stuff. Buy it? My (probable) future bike has V-brake mounting posts.
    I don't believe that humans can change. Seen it, though.

  17. #17
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    The only time I really thought my discs on my F29 gave me an advantage over the XT V brakes on my other bike was when I rode through a creek when it was cold enough to have slush/snow on the ground.

    When I came out the other side of the creek, my V brakes were useless. They wouldn't even slow the bike down and it was so cold the slush/water wouldn't evaporate. It was 5 minutes farther into the ride before my brakes became useable again.

    The other 99 rides I went on this year, my discs offer no real advantage over my XT rim brakes.

  18. #18
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    Based on the posts above, it seems the jury is still out. Until the jury comes back, light and cheap will be my choice. (and doesn't require any change on my part)

  19. #19
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    My bike has hydro. disc brakes, my wife's bike has generic v-brakes, On level ground, I can lock up either wheel on either bike with no problem.
    That being said, I ride my bike down the hill leading to my house (I have the blue rotors to prove it) I walk my wifes bike down the hill. BTW we both have to walk our bikes back up the hill.
    "It's a Sledgehamer" "Dang! You got shocks, pegs...lucky! " Napoleon Dynamite & Pedro Sanchez

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soviet123
    Why don't we use some high-end V's on some bikes? XTR V's are very good, Single Digit stuff, heck even Tektro V's work. Why not? And where are all those hydraulic V's?
    Quality v brakes are fine and work well. There isn't a thing wrong with them for a very large number of riders. As long as the brakes never get wet, or hot. If you've never ridden in very wet or muddy conditions, or never done a 2 to 5 mile descent, you'll never understand the advantage of a good set of disc brakes. A wise man once said, "No amount of teaching or advice can suffice for experience". I'm not saying that disc brakes are the be-all and end-all of bicycle brakes. You can still heat up a set of disc brakes enough to cause them to fade, and there are disadvantages to them. But the advatages FAR out weigh disadvantages. Folks could respond to your question and list the advantages of disc brakes all day long and in great detail. But until you actually have experience with a "good" set of disc brakes, you'll neither understand or likely believe it. And I'm not talking the half assed OEM disc brake systems that come on a $400 or $500 bike, I'm talking a quality, well desinged brake system. But even some of the cheapo disc systems have some advantages over many rim brakes. They may not be more powerful that a good set of v's, but they'll almost always out perform v's in foul weather.

    I'll add this, I've used everything from Tektro v's to Avid Ultimates on bikes that I've owned, and I've used a few different disc systems as well. When I'm bombing a 35mph downhill and have to scrub 10mph off "right now" for the next switch back, I'm sure glad I'm not still using the v-brakes!

    But until you experience it yourself, you'll never completely understand the advantages of discs.

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soviet123
    Why don't we use some high-end V's on some bikes? XTR V's are very good, Single Digit stuff, heck even Tektro V's work. Why not? And where are all those hydraulic V's?
    Riding styles. Same reason people ride 20 lb bikes and 45 lb bikes. You'd think a 20 lb bike would be better as its lighter. Not always.... Riding styles.
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  22. #22
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    I think people adapt to what they are used to. I know I do. I have actually had a couple rides ruined by improperly set up disk bakes and have seen several riding partners end their rides early because of issues with disc bakes. I never saw that happen with V brakes. Disc brakes are nice if you are heavy, ride big downhills, or ride a lot in the wet, but for most of the XC riding in my area, N. Georgia, they are overkill. Nice to have when they work correctly, but wouldn't spend $$ to upgrade from V to disc.

  23. #23
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    One other reason not mentioned yet. I run Avid SD7s w/XTR levers on the first SS I built up and while they function great, lots of power, look good, I also run a 2.3" tire in back and a 2.4" tire up front. These tires, when inflated, will not clear the brake pads. If you happen to use a bike rack that requires removal of the front wheel, it can get old real fast. That is part of the reason why when I built up my 29er SS, that I went with disc. I had hydro disc on the last FS bike I owned and while a pain to set up initially, once there, they were a ride and forget item.

    Currently owning bikes with Vs and discs, I would take a set of Vs over a cheap cable disc setup anyday. When you step away from the cheap disc brakes, the only real advantage I believe Vs have over disc, cost. If you like Vs and want to use them, great, use them and be happy. Out in the real world, most riders could care less what kind of brakes you are running. I know several expert racers and even one gentleman that went to nationals this past year, that run Vs. However, if you are trying to convince yourself or others, that Vs are better than a good set of disc, it is not going to happen.

    Brian

  24. #24
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    I live in UAE, Dubai and it is very dry here, rains about one or two days a whole year so i am fine with my V's but as bikingbob mentioned diferrent riding styles and different locations change opinions on what to buy. Best way to find out is by asking local riders around you or going to the bike shops nearby.

  25. #25
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    Um humm
    V brakes have there place specifically flat places where brakes are not used however I really do not like them for mountain biking where there are hills and mountains.

    I've been riding for over a decade have a strong upper body, have fairly good technical skills, worked in a shop for five years and still ride V Brakes on my oldish school hardtail. XTR levers and calipers near perfect adjustment and wheel trueness and they still lack the power and control of almost all disks.

    I ride down 2000 vertical foot descents and Vee Brakes wear my forearms out so bad that I have to stop a couple times on descents where I would not have with disks. Also fatigue does not allow you to push as hard as you otherwise would with disks Vee brakes force you to brake earlier loosing time on the approach to corners. a pound does not matter if you loose a minute on a decent or crash.

    Vee brakes are antiquated technology that due to current monetary constraints I am obliged to live with.

  26. #26
    local trails rider
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    Depends on where and how you ride. I have never ridden down (or climbed) 2000 vertical feet. I do get up to some speed sometimes but it never lasts long. Most of my local trails are twisty enough to keep the speed down.

    The power of V's is quite adequate for me.

    The wet, dirty and icy conditions are where I really see the benefit of discs. My LX hydro discs feel nicer than my BB5 mechanicals. Even my Deore V's feel better than my BB5s...

  27. #27
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    I'm about to fix up my starter hrdtail and am interested in some more quality V-brakes. Is Shimano XT/XTR pretty much the way to go?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soviet123
    Why don't we use some high-end V's on some bikes? XTR V's are very good, Single Digit stuff, heck even Tektro V's work. Why not? And where are all those hydraulic V's?
    One thing I have often noticed is that many folks never had a set of v's set up optimally. Surprisingly, this includes some professionals. I honestly feel that if you are under 200 lbs (with gear) and don't have one finger braking on all but the steepest, longest descents, then something is not up to par with the set-up. Most common culprit is pads. Some of the cheaper pads suck, a descent par make a lot of difference. Another issue is that some forks and many rear seat stays have some flex in the brake bosses, particularly on steel frames. I found that brake boosters make a world of difference in these cases. With these two things in mind, I've had three bikes with three different brands/models of v-brakes, (LX, XT, and Avid SD 5 levers, LX, Deore, Avid SD 7 calipers) and all gave me as much power as a set of bb7's with 6" rotors and some 6" hydro's as well. A hard squeeze with one finger on any of these would have put me OTB. My arms never got tired due to brake issues.

    That said, I do think discs, (bb7's or better) are a real improvement, though. On a long descents with lots of braking (as in a DH run) there is much less fade than with v's. When you step up to 7" rotors, the disc brakes are more powerful. But most important, I find I have better control with discs. Braking is more consistent and predictable. I find I can brake harder without crossing the line into locking up the wheels with discs. They are less grabby than v's, until you get up to the 8" rotors, but those are incredibly powerful, and if you actually need that kind of power, the grabby-ness is not much of an issue. They are not affected by water or other conditions nearly as much as v's. Also, as someone above pointed out, with larger tires, taking the wheel off often requires deflating the tire with v's. Finally, although I was always able to set up v's to give me one-fingered baking (I''ve weighed as much as 200lbs with gear in the past) it seems from reading peoples' experience with v's that most people can not (or at least do not).

    I would not bother getting new brakes and wheelset (and in some cases frame and/or fork) just to get discs if you are happy with v's, but on a new build I can't see any real advantage to v's, and plenty for disc. There is a cost advantage, but considering you can easily find bb7's for $120 for a pair, the savings is not that much, assuming you get a respectable set of v's with good pads and possibly a booster.

  29. #29
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    I'm about to fix up my starter hrdtail and am interested in some more quality V-brakes. Is Shimano XT/XTR pretty much the way to go?
    I think the pads and levers make more difference than the actual calipers. As far as calipers go, the parallel push feature is nice in terms of even pad wear, but I don't think there is a difference in performance between them and the deores or any of the avids. I think people notice a difference due to the better pads and levers that come with them more than the actual calipers. That's my experience at least. Also, some people have issues with the XT's squealing.

  30. #30
    GNR
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    Even XTR V brakes can't compare

    I agree that proper set up is crucial, and I haven't done v-brakes in so long, I probably couldn't do it well. New pads are important too.

    I did buy a used Epic recently with a XTR V brake set up, perfectly true ceramic wheelset, newer pads and I went for a ride before breaking it down. The V brake set up, even on 5% downhill grade, just wasn't what I was used to and didn't have the stopping power of BB7's, which I have on all my bikes.

    New pads, rims and an easy grade should be V-brakeable. When it wasn't, I sold em.

  31. #31
    local trails rider
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    XTR V's are unneccessarily complex. LX, XT, just about anything from Avid should be functionally good.

    And when you need new pads, go for Koolstop.

  32. #32
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    I disagree.
    There is no way a proper ceramic V-Brake setup ( which is NOT that hard to get right ) is not two or three times as good as bb7's.


    Quote Originally Posted by GNR
    I agree that proper set up is crucial, and I haven't done v-brakes in so long, I probably couldn't do it well. New pads are important too.

    I did buy a used Epic recently with a XTR V brake set up, perfectly true ceramic wheelset, newer pads and I went for a ride before breaking it down. The V brake set up, even on 5% downhill grade, just wasn't what I was used to and didn't have the stopping power of BB7's, which I have on all my bikes.

    New pads, rims and an easy grade should be V-brakeable. When it wasn't, I sold em.

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  33. #33
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    It's been awhile since I've ridden Vs... but I know that even just the step up from good mechanical disk brakes vs hydraulic disc brakes is a huge jump for me. It just is flat-out confidence inspiring.

    The first time I pulled an emergency stop on my Juicy Ultimates after moving from mechanical discs I went over the bars just because I stopped so fast. Lesson learned... but now that I'm used to them they are amazing. I can bomb down anything I want as fast as I want and take blind corners as fast as ones I know perfectly. I just know that I can shut it down fast enough to react to anything on the other side.

    I know that on really steep stuff with tight corners (where you are already on your brakes a lot and then step it up even more for the turn) discs just feel so nice. I remember the first time I brought a friend of mine on a trail nearby us like that. He is normally as fast or faster then me on most stuff and is a staunch defender of his V-brakes, but I gained a LOT of time on him down it. His reaction at the bottom? "Wow... I found myself really wishing I had some discs on that one..."

    Plus the fact is that I tend to throw rims out of true fairly often... I think I'd be getting annoyed at Vs a lot.

    btw, I'm 145 lbs without gear, ride aggressive xc/all mountain stuff.

  34. #34
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    Last weekend, I went out and encountered extensive mud. At the end of the ride, the only thing that wasn't caked in mud were the disc brakes.

    Vbrakes would have been horrible. I rode cantilever/vbrakes for 20 years, so I can admit that they do work. BUT, disc is simply superior.

  35. #35
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    I really like my V's.. they have held up to A LOT.. However when I do more trials type stuff I o wish I had more. I have only ridden the mech. cable disc brakes and was not overly impressed. I am wanting to try the hydraulic set ups first.

    I will say, however, during many snow rides the disc brakes worked a lot better than my V's did.

    just my 2 cents!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funrover
    I really like my V's.. they have held up to A LOT.. However when I do more trials type stuff I o wish I had more. I have only ridden the mech. cable disc brakes and was not overly impressed. I am wanting to try the hydraulic set ups first.

    I will say, however, during many snow rides the disc brakes worked a lot better than my V's did.

    just my 2 cents!
    All the top trials riders use hydraulic V's.

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  37. #37
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    Why have V brakes?
    Why have full suspension?
    why have front suspension?
    Why have index shifters?
    Why have clipless pedals?
    Why have gears?
    Why have a non walmart bike?

  38. #38
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    why v-brakes are better than disc:
    - cheaper
    - lighter

    why v-brakes are worse than disc:
    - more fade on long DH
    - less power and modulation, leading to more skidding
    - affected more by out-of-true wheel
    - more susceptible to mud and water
    - requires adjusting distance from pad-to-rim as brake pads wear down

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bstyle74
    why v-brakes are better than disc:
    - cheaper
    - lighter

    why v-brakes are worse than disc:
    - more fade on long DH
    - less power and modulation, leading to more skidding
    - affected more by out-of-true wheel
    - more susceptible to mud and water
    - requires adjusting distance from pad-to-rim as brake pads wear down

    "-more fade on long DH"

    i've never noticed much fade with hydraulic rim brakes. no more so than problems i've noticed with avid juicy carbon on the front on long dh, and bb7 in a similar situation.

    less modulation with v's, definitely. with hydraulic rim brakes, it's pretty much equal.

    discs are more affected by an out of true rotor, which happens.

    definitely more succeptible to wear from mud and water and to loss of functionality due to contaminants on rim. once it's muddy or wet enough that the disc rotors are getting muddy or wet(combined with dirt) though, it's all equal.

    "- requires adjusting distance from pad-to-rim as brake pads wear down"

    i was under the impression that disc brakes needed this as well??


    in my highly uneducated opinion, the biggest advantage disc brakes offer is that as the braking surface wears, the strength of thge wheel is not compromised, and it's alot cheaper to replace a rotor than a rim.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    "- requires adjusting distance from pad-to-rim as brake pads wear down"

    i was under the impression that disc brakes needed this as well??


    in my highly uneducated opinion, the biggest advantage disc brakes offer is that as the braking surface wears, the strength of thge wheel is not compromised, and it's alot cheaper to replace a rotor than a rim.
    Hydraulic disks don't require adjusting as the pads wear.

    You are right that V-brakes can wear down the rim. Feel how the brake pad and rims feel after a muddy ride. It feels like sandpaper. Every time you brake its like sandpapering your rims.

    I have V brakes on my cheap hardtail. They were powerfull in that I could lock up both wheels. On long downhills my hands got sore from holding the brakes. Some of the cheap mechanical disks aren't much of an improvement, but v brakes don't compare to high-quality hydraulic disks. If your really concerned about weight and all you do is tame XC then Vs might be OK. If you do DH or even all-mountain or trailbiking then definitely get discs.

  41. #41
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    Someone else said in this thread it bears repeating: Out-of-true rotors are a probably 100 times more frequent occurrence than out-of-true Rims and are just as if not more annoying. Also, the amount by which the Rotor has to be out of true is 1mm before the pads start rubbing, yet a Rim can be out of true 5 times that and you won't notice any problems. Also V-Brakes if the rim is really out of true, you can easily true it up on the trail, and worst case, just undo the brakes. If a Rotor gets dinged out of true it's a bit more of a hassle to remove the caliper and zip tie it to the frame or something like that.

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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhaskell
    Why have V brakes?
    Why have full suspension?
    why have front suspension?
    Why have index shifters?
    Why have clipless pedals?
    Why have gears?
    Why have a non walmart bike?
    Except for the wal-mart bike, I thought I knew what your point was here. But If your point is wal-mart bikes have v-brakes and good bikes have disk brakes, then you've never been to many XC races and you also haven't been to wal-mart in a while (as there are now equally crappy disk brakes bikes at walmart)

    Here's a pic: Gunn-Rita: multi-time Marathon world champion. All those times on V-Brakes. Mud. See Pic. Look at brakes. Look at mud. All I'm saying is, you can be world champion on v-brakes. In the mud. Just sayin'


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  43. #43
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    I'll stick to my big (8'' front and rear) discs. Alot of my summer riding is DH, and I have no desire to deal w/ poor power and burning through 2 or 3 sets of pads a weekend.

  44. #44
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    V Brakes also manage to catch a shitload of mud from the tire in very muddy conditions.

    If some wet/sandy/gritty solution manages to get onto your V brake rims, then you will experience some SERIOUS brake fade also. Say buh-bye to your brake pads.

    If you have ever raced/ridden in sloppy conditions with V's, you know what I'm talking about.
    F. B. I.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kahiwa
    If you have ever raced/ridden in sloppy conditions with V's, you know what I'm talking about.
    I have, and I know what you mean.

    Still keeping a bike with V's for riding in mainly clean conditions.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    Except for the wal-mart bike, I thought I knew what your point was here. But If your point is wal-mart bikes have v-brakes and good bikes have disk brakes, then you've never been to many XC races and you also haven't been to wal-mart in a while (as there are now equally crappy disk brakes bikes at walmart)

    Here's a pic: Gunn-Rita: multi-time Marathon world champion. All those times on V-Brakes. Mud. See Pic. Look at brakes. Look at mud. All I'm saying is, you can be world champion on v-brakes. In the mud. Just sayin'

    You are also saying that she is on a hardtail, therefore a hardtail is the best choice and all anyone needs to ride? LOL

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhaskell
    a hardtail is the best choice and all anyone needs to ride? LOL
    Sometimes it is. Seriously.

    (sometimes you do not need front suspensions or multiple gears either. Seriously.)

  48. #48
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    Because we choose life... Ok, for real, I used v brakes for 8 years, so I know them better than the back of my hand. They can be made very strong stoppers, but they require CONSTANT adjustment, and even trail dust is enough to undermine performance, so while they are a good idea on an xc race bike, otherwise discs are just obviously a better idea.

  49. #49
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    I love my V's, but...

    I've been riding v-brakes since I started 10 years ago, and I've never had a situation where I thought I needed more power. Usually, when braking falls short, it's due to slick terrain and/or tires that won't bite hard enough.

    Still, there are a couple downsides that have once again shown up since fall hit:

    - leaves getting stuck between the tire and the cable. Seriously, this is THE most annoying thing ever. You'll just be riding along, when suddenly, "PBPBPBPBPBBPPPPBBBPBBPBPBPBPBP...." It's not so bad on descents, since a lot of the times the tire will eventually grab the leaf and throw it out, but it's really distracting on tough climbs.

    - mud. Yeah, mud causes braking issues when it gets on your rims, but it's usually not terrible. The bigger issue is with rim wear, as the mud--and whatever tiny rocks it contains--grinds into your rims as you brake. I went throw some gloppy mud the other day, and the next time I hit my brakes, the scratching sound of tiny rocks on my rims made me wince. I stopped and wiped the rims/pads off before I went any further.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by f3rg
    I've been riding v-brakes since I started 10 years ago, and I've never had a situation where I thought I needed more power. Usually, when braking falls short, it's due to slick terrain and/or tires that won't bite hard enough.

    Still, there are a couple downsides that have once again shown up since fall hit:

    - leaves getting stuck between the tire and the cable. Seriously, this is THE most annoying thing ever. You'll just be riding along, when suddenly, "PBPBPBPBPBBPPPPBBBPBBPBPBPBPBP...." It's not so bad on descents, since a lot of the times the tire will eventually grab the leaf and throw it out, but it's really distracting on tough climbs.

    - mud. Yeah, mud causes braking issues when it gets on your rims, but it's usually not terrible. The bigger issue is with rim wear, as the mud--and whatever tiny rocks it contains--grinds into your rims as you brake. I went throw some gloppy mud the other day, and the next time I hit my brakes, the scratching sound of tiny rocks on my rims made me wince. I stopped and wiped the rims/pads off before I went any further.
    Your just not pushing yourself hard enough! ok just kidding, but really, after 8 years of vbrakes I know them pretty well, and let me tell you after I upgraded to discs I started riding faster, because I can push harder and still stop in time (and yea v's seem fine till youve ridden some good discs for a while, then you realize you really did need stopping power.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiCN WC
    Um humm
    V brakes have there place specifically flat places where brakes are not used however I really do not like them for mountain biking where there are hills and mountains.

    I've been riding for over a decade have a strong upper body, have fairly good technical skills, worked in a shop for five years and still ride V Brakes on my oldish school hardtail. XTR levers and calipers near perfect adjustment and wheel trueness and they still lack the power and control of almost all disks.

    I ride down 2000 vertical foot descents and Vee Brakes wear my forearms out so bad that I have to stop a couple times on descents where I would not have with disks. Also fatigue does not allow you to push as hard as you otherwise would with disks Vee brakes force you to brake earlier loosing time on the approach to corners. a pound does not matter if you loose a minute on a decent or crash.

    Vee brakes are antiquated technology that due to current monetary constraints I am obliged to live with.

    Mountain biking started with modified cruiser bikes....
    the technology we've gained in the past ten to fifteen years has made mountain biking easier and safer, and as a result the limits have been able to be pushed farther than ever before.
    that being said, people still started this whole thing on cruiser bikes riding down fire-roads on Mt. Tam... do you guys remember cantilever brakes? we managed to ride on those back in the day, and since there was no such thing as disc brakes, or even V brakes, nobody complained.
    Yes, good Disc brakes are the next technological step on the mountain bike that is taking over just as V systems did when they came on the scene. they work better, and have a lot of advantages over older systems. but V brakes still work just as good as they always have. personally, i ride as hard as my body lets me, maybe I'm just used to them but V brakes do ok for me. I'd love a nice set of disc brakes, but $ keeps me from them for now.
    as long as your bike lets you ride in controll then it works just fine, enjoy riding and dont worry so much about having the latest and greatest bike gear.

  52. #52
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    Using both on same bike

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand/of/Midas
    i run both, for me the advantages of each are...

    disk: low maintenance,doesnt make grinding noises after a creek crossing,feel cool,more rim options.

    Vs. easy maintanance, light,looks perfect on my steel HT,cheaper.
    I run both on one bike, front =V, rear =disc.
    I prefer the additional force to lock up the front to avoid aerial excursions OTB. Disc's I have tried up front are too easy to accidentally lock up in bumpy terrain.

    Disc's are much more expensive to maintain, a lot more. I go though pads on both about every 4 months (2000' descent typical ride, ride 4 to 6 times per week). Pads are 1/3 the cost of disc pads. Bleed kits required for disc, calipers get dirt in seals, parts are expensive. V's, just replace pads and cables at the same time and they work fine.

    Had a rim disintegrate on V brakes due to wear while descending. Tire split rim brake surface where rim had become thin. That was a surprising moment...

    Disc's much better in mud.

    I enjoy the combination.



    I

  53. #53
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    Disc's are much more expensive to maintain, a lot more. I go though pads on both about every 4 months (2000' descent typical ride, ride 4 to 6 times per week). Pads are 1/3 the cost of disc pads. Bleed kits required for disc, calipers get dirt in seals, parts are expensive. V's, just replace pads and cables at the same time and they work fine.
    ??? Avid BB7 pads are less expensive than V brake pads, and the cost certainly is NOT much more expensive. No bleeding, no bleed kits, no hydraulic problems whatsoever. BB7 mechanical discs, just replace pads and cables at the same time and they work fine.

  54. #54
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    The bike I ride most of the time Has a Maguras disc up front and a HS rim in the rear. I've never had a problem with HS brakes stopping, I do have to squeeze harder when the trail is muddy if using a front rim break. The rear wheel is easy to lock. I have had mud cake and drag on rim breaks. Dry a rim break is a 24" disk but usually you set the pads almost touching on a disc, and milimeters or more on a MTB rim break. You are loosing some mechanical advantage by having some of your lever travel used to bring the pads into contact with the rim.
    I think HS lock wheels better than disk dry.
    Canti's and Vs and Us may as well, but I think cables and springs make them more difficult to pull.
    Actually I've used Calipers, U-brakes, Cantilevers, Drums, and Peterson/SE, and Magura Hydrostops and Disc. I think Vs are newer than HS. I went from canti's to HS. Ive never tried a cable disc, or road a Vs on a trail.
    I believe disc have a more gradual feel than canti's, and I expect Vs are grabby as well. I don't get forced into endo recovery with the front disc.
    I've had some canti's make noise.
    Although I agree in a lot of situations I would prefere a disk (and if weight didn't matter, drums), I think the difference between rim breaks, and disk is as great as some make it out to be. I've had someone recently tell me I was probably going to have to walk a section because I have a rear rim break.
    I also read: "...we really have come a long way: even my singlespeed has disc brakes!"

    Drums Have more modulation than disc, and can be used to control speed for extended periods of time. You can heat rims till the tire pops with rim brakes, or boil hydrolic fluid and/or warp disc. but these sort of things usually only happen on road tandems.
    I've found both Magura Hydrostops and disc easier to work on than cable brakes, but hydrolics require a short read where cable rim brakes are self explanatory.

    I think i remember that V levers pull more cable than Cantilevers so I expect it would be interesting to mix. Cantilever levers with V brakes would have little clearance with more mechanical advantage possibly the equivalent of mechanical 24 inch disc, but I've never tried it.
    V levers pulling canti's would make for weaker brakes with more clearance.

    I've heard that disk are eventually cheaper as pads last longer and the cost of replacing rims vs rotors.
    I've never complained about rim breaks on a normal road bike.

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  55. #55
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    steepness

    Quote Originally Posted by BEETROOT
    I've never really understood the 'power' argument. Can anyone explain exactly what that means? I rode V brakes for years, and I never had a situation where I didn't have enough 'power' to stop the bike. With V brakes, in any situation I felt I would have no problem locking up either wheel if I so desired (tried to avoid this with the front wheel though...). I can't recall ever feeling as if I needed more power in my fingers to pull the levers back.
    i think the power argument really only comes into play on seriously steep terrain and is somewhat confused with modulation. with my hydros on really steep trails i feel like i can have greater power and control without locking up. i definitely skid more when i ride my v-brake bike and have a bit more fear on the super steep stuff.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iridethedirt
    Mountain biking started with modified cruiser bikes....
    the technology we've gained in the past ten to fifteen years has made mountain biking easier and safer, and as a result the limits have been able to be pushed farther than ever before.
    that being said, people still started this whole thing on cruiser bikes riding down fire-roads on Mt. Tam... do you guys remember cantilever brakes? we managed to ride on those back in the day, and since there was no such thing as disc brakes, or even V brakes, nobody complained.
    Yes, good Disc brakes are the next technological step on the mountain bike that is taking over just as V systems did when they came on the scene. they work better, and have a lot of advantages over older systems. but V brakes still work just as good as they always have. personally, i ride as hard as my body lets me, maybe I'm just used to them but V brakes do ok for me. I'd love a nice set of disc brakes, but $ keeps me from them for now.
    as long as your bike lets you ride in controll then it works just fine, enjoy riding and dont worry so much about having the latest and greatest bike gear.
    Great response. The next XC hardtail I get will likely have disc only because there is no other choice...FORCED evolution in my opinion and I resent the crap out of it. NO ONE can justify my xc hardtail (which is disc compatible) is worth putting a thousand dollars into just to have a "slight" advantage on braking. No way, not in this economy, not ever.

  57. #57
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    Discs provide more power with much less hand effort, great for long downhills. Also don't have to worry about the rim heating up causing fade. The proximity of the v-brakes close to the tire also hinders the tire when in muddy conditions, and debris gets caught between the rim and pads on dusty trails.

    I'll reserve v-brakes for the road converted old mtn bike as they're quieter when wet. But for mtn biking, will never go back to v-brakes or mechanical discs for that matter.
    Question to a custom frame builder..."So what makes your bikes climb better?"....his answer, "Uh, your legs?"

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bstyle74
    why v-brakes are better than disc:
    - cheaper
    - lighter

    why v-brakes are worse than disc:
    - more fade on long DH (dont care, dont do long dh)
    - less power and modulation, leading to more skidding (doubtful...never had this problem)
    - affected more by out-of-true wheel (true, but anyone who isnt lazy can cure this)
    - more susceptible to mud and water (true..cant deny it)
    - requires adjusting distance from pad-to-rim as brake pads wear down
    (true but can be taken care of in minutes)


    Bottom line is, I dont ride in super mud, snow, ice, with polar bears and am not rich. I will ride rim brakes till they are unavailable due to over hype of disc by magazines and the new bmx extension segment of the sport.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by autoduel
    Disks require less finger pressure for the same stopping power.
    Compare to power brakes of modern cars vs non-vacuum assisted brakes. Power steering. etc.
    Long downhills benefit from disks. Clydes that weigh over 200lbs and 45lb DH rigs benefit.
    tell me where the vacuum assist is on your bike?

  60. #60
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    For me the disc brakes is all about the modulation. And single finger braking. Maybe my old vbrakes sucked. But there is no way I could have sent my self over the handle bars with a single finger working vbrakes.

  61. #61
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by autoduel
    Disks require less finger pressure for the same stopping power.
    Compare to power brakes of modern cars vs non-vacuum assisted brakes. Power steering. etc.
    Long downhills benefit from disks. Clydes that weigh over 200lbs and 45lb DH rigs benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by jager7
    tell me where the vacuum assist is on your bike?
    Are you serious? You better read my post again.

    Do you want to know where the power steering is too?
    Last edited by autoduel; 11-19-2008 at 03:06 AM.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdusthuffer
    Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    Except for the wal-mart bike, I thought I knew what your point was here. But If your point is wal-mart bikes have v-brakes and good bikes have disk brakes, then you've never been to many XC races and you also haven't been to wal-mart in a while (as there are now equally crappy disk brakes bikes at walmart)

    Here's a pic: Gunn-Rita: multi-time Marathon world champion. All those times on V-Brakes. Mud. See Pic. Look at brakes. Look at mud. All I'm saying is, you can be world champion on v-brakes. In the mud. Just sayin'
    Quote Originally Posted by mhaskell
    You are also saying that she is on a hardtail, therefore a hardtail is the best choice and all anyone needs to ride? LOL
    I don't see the word "hardtail" in mdusthuffer's post.
    According to your skewed logic, white shorts are also the best choice and all anyone needs to ride? LOL

  63. #63
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    Discs look cooler
    My little BB7 resource.
    How to setup the Avid BB7

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMW
    Discs look cooler
    Dunno... on some bikes V's look pretty cool too

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wankel7
    For me the disc brakes is all about the modulation. And single finger braking. Maybe my old vbrakes sucked. But there is no way I could have sent my self over the handle bars with a single finger working vbrakes.
    Disc are easier to control, I've not gone over the handlebars solely because of breaking using a disc. I am puzzled by the reputation rim/V brakes have. I've never had one on my bike, but they were supposed to be great compared to cantilevers. They did look like it was harder to set them up wrong. They were also marketed pointing out the mechanical advantage of the brake itself over cantilevers. Levers were marketed for their greater cable pull for more clearance (no mention of the loss of mechanical advantage; I thought the Vs would still be ahead ov Canti's).
    V-brakes did look easier to set up so that they lined up and hit symmetrically.

    My experience with Canti's has been that they vary in performance with set up.
    They tear up rims on a sandy river bank.
    They change with whats on the rim.
    They can catch on a limb and get pried out of alignment without the rider being aware of it.
    (however a cable getting caught is unlikely to do permanent damage).
    I' ve have cut a tire, but not to failure buy undiscovered misalignment causing the pad to drag on sections of the tire.
    They are more difficult to work on/set up to optimal adjustment.
    They have a stronger lock.
    When set up right they have thrown me (never twice in the same year, and not in many years) by just playing with them on level ground.
    I have wanted more brake when they were misaligned.
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  66. #66
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    I've used a lot of different systems down through the years. Each with their own advantages/disadvantages but things change and newer technologies appear. Disc are currently that "new" technology. There's no denying the older stuff still works, just not as well.
    Nobody can ever convince me that a set of V's (and I'm not talking about hydraulic rim brakes, they are not V's) are better than a set of hydraulic discs - both set up properly. In wet conditions, the difference between V's and discs is night and day. In dry conditions, the difference is less but the discs are still better.
    To answer the OP; the reason we don't see more high-end V's on bikes is because the vast majority of people want to see disc brakes (the "new" technology) on bikes and manufacturers give people what they want, regardless of the quality and how well those particular discs perform.

  67. #67
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    Anyone can benefit

    Even x-county bikes benefit. Anyone riding off-road benefits with discs. So many lightweight choices today that it's not just for DH bikes anymore.
    Question to a custom frame builder..."So what makes your bikes climb better?"....his answer, "Uh, your legs?"

  68. #68
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    I've been mentioning my various experiences with cantilevers. I have a theory:
    Cantilevers were available with different design, shapes, angles, sizes, and colors.
    Cantilever levers were probably not standardized; some probably had more cable pull and less leverage, and visa versa. Lever size varied also.
    I expect there were freestyle/trial canti, and U-brakes designed with more leverage and less clearance.
    These cantis (not all) may be stronger (not better modulation; beter at stopping, not slowing down or using the wheel as a fixed object to jump on) than disc statically, but with the pads to close to the wheel for most MTB.
    V brakes Seem to be pretty standard some were complicated.
    I expect that V-brakes are not as great compared to cantis (but easier to align) and just marketed as better because the caliper itself has more leverage. The V-levers had less leverage.
    All V-brakes probably aren't superior to all cantis and yet cantis are only for niches; I suspect to most customers cantis are thought of as obsolete, as are Vs.
    I have seen new trial bikes with hydrolic rim brakes.
    Magura HS aren't cheep and get mistaken for V brakes by people who have never heard of them.
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    All the top trials riders use hydraulic V's.
    No, they use hydraulic rim brakes, not "v" brakes. There is no "v" aspect of HS33s.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    "-more fade on long DH"

    i've never noticed much fade with hydraulic rim brakes. no more so than problems i've noticed with avid juicy carbon on the front on long dh, and bb7 in a similar situation.

    less modulation with v's, definitely. with hydraulic rim brakes, it's pretty much equal..
    Well, I used the HS33s for a while. They tend to "expand" your fork/chainstays when you use the brakes, which is fairly bad for the structure, also they aren't very light (compared to disc brakes). They are used with "brake boosters", but even still the hydraulic cyclinder is so strong that it tends to do the above. They were good back when we didn't have disc brakes, and had some of the advantages of discs, but discs have even more advantages without as many disadvantages.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianb00
    I run both on one bike, front =V, rear =disc.
    I prefer the additional force to lock up the front to avoid aerial excursions OTB. Disc's I have tried up front are too easy to accidentally lock up in bumpy terrain.

    I
    Thats a different approach, interesting. For people who are worried locking up their front disk and going OTB, all you have to do is adjust that option out via lever and cable setup. You can make it so you can grab a bunch of lever and still not lock up. A common tactic in motorcycle road riders. You can actually set it up so your bike does perfect stoppies, almost like an anti-lock. Of course body position is as important as anything else when braking and I dont think enough attention is given to that either. Just because they come from the factory sensitive as a hemmorid doesnt mean it has to stay that way. Make some changes and exploit the advantages of the disk!

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    No, they use hydraulic rim brakes, not "v" brakes. There is no "v" aspect of HS33s.
    Yeah they're hydraulic cantilevers. HydroStops pre-date V-brakes. Besides HydroStops, HS 11, HS 22, HS 66, and even HS 33 mount to "canti studs".
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGB
    I've used a lot of different systems down through the years. Each with their own advantages/disadvantages but things change and newer technologies appear. Disc are currently that "new" technology. There's no denying the older stuff still works, just not as well.
    Nobody can ever convince me that a set of V's (and I'm not talking about hydraulic rim brakes, they are not V's) are better than a set of hydraulic discs - both set up properly. In wet conditions, the difference between V's and discs is night and day. In dry conditions, the difference is less but the discs are still better.
    To answer the OP; the reason we don't see more high-end V's on bikes is because the vast majority of people want to see disc brakes (the "new" technology) on bikes and manufacturers give people what they want, regardless of the quality and how well those particular discs perform.

    I would agree with your astute answer...however, I contend that the only reason people "want" to see disc brakes on bikes is all the eye candy driven by Mountain Bike Action and the like. Discs certainly have their advantages, I can't deny. BUT...this whole argument would be solved if they just gave people reasonable choices for both. Quite frankly, I wouldnt even consider a disc hardtail bike if V Brake hardtails were still in the mix more. And is it me...or has this new found revolution only occurred over the last two years!???? Suddenly V's suck and are for retro or Vintage??? Hell, my car is older than that and is NOT vintage...lol.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbx
    I would agree with your astute answer...however, I contend that the only reason people "want" to see disc brakes on bikes is all the eye candy driven by Mountain Bike Action and the like. Discs certainly have their advantages, I can't deny. BUT...this whole argument would be solved if they just gave people reasonable choices for both. Quite frankly, I wouldnt even consider a disc hardtail bike if V Brake hardtails were still in the mix more. And is it me...or has this new found revolution only occurred over the last two years!???? Suddenly V's suck and are for retro or Vintage??? Hell, my car is older than that and is NOT vintage...lol.
    I want disk brakes because I need to be able to stop in wet muddy conditions and V's just can't do it for me, not because they're fashionable. I've always felt V's sucked, but then again I never had a bike that had V's fitted. I went from canti to hydro rim to hydro disk and everytime I test rode a bike with V's I was disappointed
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

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    I picked up my first bike with disks, avid juicy 7's, this summer. My other bike is all xtr including xtr v-brakes. Honestly, I was a little disappointed. Not that the disks were bad, but they weren't the big improvement over the v's that I was expecting.

    I'm also not sure how people define power in this thread? It's much easier, and most reviewers seem to agree, to lock up the wheel with v-brakes.

    Modulation and all day comfort goes to the disks. It's easier to ride all day with one finger on the lever.

    I really don't care about the arguments people are throwing out about replacing rims or disks. In 20+ years of riding, including racing road/mountain at an elite level riding sh^tloads, I've never thrown away a rim because the brake pads wore it out. Either I would just crash the rim somehow, or it would just fatigue - crack, pull nipples through, break spokes, break a flange on the hub, or otherwise just not stay true - and need a rebuild. At that point I would just buy new rims, spokes, etc.

    Still, I was expecting a bigger evolution in braking going from v's to disks. Going from cantilevers to v's was a bigger step.

  76. #76
    cbx
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    Believe me...given all the catering to disc brakes the industry seems to be turning to (ie, v brake options shrinking) I will likely have a disc bike next. My problem with that is they are replacing it with a product that is 4x as expensive. I just picked up a set of Avid Single Digit SL's with Ti hardware for 64 bucks for front and rear. Top end components that function great for my environment and XC riding style. For me to get a lightweight top end disc setup it would cost me 400+ for the equivalent disc/lever combo. I just can't justify the cost for only a modest performance gain in my riding environment. I can't speak to your setups with your v's...mine are single digit stopping power.

  77. #77
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    1. Around here, you can go through a set of pads in one long ride.
    2. You can go through several sets of rims in a season
    3. When it's really muddy and wet, they do not stop you very good until the mud/wetness is scraped off... delay in power or no power if you are going through a puddle.
    4. You have to adjust the barrel all the time when it's muddy and you are using up a lot of pad

    I sure don't miss rim brakes.

  78. #78
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    I note that a lot of bike forks, starting in '09, are omitting the v-brake mounts (e.g., check out the '09 Epic lineup). Looks like it won't be an option for suspender riders for too much longer. I, for one, am sorry to see this. My XTR v's are simple, light, and easy to live with. I don't have to worry about forcing the quick release loose on the front, either, but that's another matter, isn't it..?

    Maybe I'd better stock up on some brake pads while I can.

    jeff

  79. #79
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    My bike has mid-level rim brakes, and it's all I need 99% of the time. I must admit though, that I've been riding my son's bike with low-end disc brakes this weekend, due to all the snow and ice. It's easy to get spoiled by disc brakes in those conditions, but when the conditions improve and I get back to my rim brakes, I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodletips
    I note that a lot of bike forks, starting in '09, are omitting the v-brake mounts (e.g., check out the '09 Epic lineup).

    jeff
    That started happening quite a few years ago.

    They don't come with the cable stop for canti's, either. Or u-brake mounts. Wonder why?.

  81. #81
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    so far,im still using v brakes.
    xc use
    but i use ceramic.
    as far as mud races,i still have pads left...unlike some disc brake racers.
    i will say that the xt xtr v's are not my cup of tea.the avids have good modulation.
    never tried the xt or xtr v's for continual down hill xc courses,but something tells me they would be much easier on my hands.

  82. #82
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    Vees don't play well with snow at all. Even in colder temperatures when the snow doesn't melt, its crystals wipe away pad material from rim braking surface.

    Hydraulics require a bleed kit and expensive spares (especially the levers, as these are vulnerable to crashes). I try to keep as few flimsy protruding parts on my bikes as I can; this means grip shifters (and not triggers), metal bar end plugs, beefy short cage derailers etc. But I cannot do anything to protect brake levers... so I guess it's better to make them cheap and quick to replace?

    Enter mechanical discs...
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  83. #83
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    After several years of riding, I had my first ride with discs yesterday. Avid SD 7's were replaced with XT hydraulics. IMO, the discs have more power, require less effort on my part, and have slightly better modulation. Bottom line: I won't go back to v-brakes.

  84. #84
    I think we should go back
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    Rim brakes and disk brakes are both good. They both brake plenty strong (when setup right) but when it comes to the elements, rim brakes lose much of their stopping power while disks continue to run strong

    Rim brakes: tight budget, want a lighter bike, will not be riding through too much stuff like water, snow mud ect

    disk brakes: for people who will be rdiding through a lot of mud and does a lot of snow rides (You almost have to have disks on snow or ice rides! especially on cold days because the ice builds up and freezes on the rim. The disks maintain a fare amount of heat and is less likely to get ice build up.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho
    Vees don't play well with snow at all.
    It has been a while since I had this problem. In the last week we've had some snow fall and my commute has taken me through a couple of spots with soft dry snow almost up to the hubs. That made my V brake bike lose all braking power for several seconds at a time. Imagine approaching a line of cars at a red light, squeezing the levers, ... and nothing happens until about five seconds later... I managed to miss that car and took it easy the rest of the way.

    No major issues when I can stay away from deep snow.

  86. #86
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    The only time I hate my v-brakes is riding in the wet/muddy conditions. Cold probably doesn't help. But it's typically not below freezing when I ride.

    But you get mud or water on the rims and I lose 75% of my power and modulation. The rears don't even work any more. The fronts are basically either on or off. Very little modulation.

    Very difficult to come down a steep technical single track on a HT.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho
    Vees don't play well with snow at all. Even in colder temperatures when the snow doesn't melt, its crystals wipe away pad material from rim braking surface.

    Hydraulics require a bleed kit and expensive spares (especially the levers, as these are vulnerable to crashes). I try to keep as few flimsy protruding parts on my bikes as I can; this means grip shifters (and not triggers), metal bar end plugs, beefy short cage derailers etc. But I cannot do anything to protect brake levers... so I guess it's better to make them cheap and quick to replace?

    Enter mechanical discs...
    Incorrect. Several lines of hydraulic discs are bleedable without kits, something I've criticized the companies using them for. Hope and Shimano allow bleeds without kits and are incredibly easy.

    As far as lever replacements, one can get replacement Hope levers for about $20. I have been involved in several crashed with them, including ones that have bent the levers and I bent them back and they are fine.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    It has been a while since I had this problem. In the last week we've had some snow fall and my commute has taken me through a couple of spots with soft dry snow almost up to the hubs. That made my V brake bike lose all braking power for several seconds at a time. Imagine approaching a line of cars at a red light, squeezing the levers, ... and nothing happens until about five seconds later... I managed to miss that car and took it easy the rest of the way.

    No major issues when I can stay away from deep snow.
    Exactly!
    Except that I cannot stay away from snow, somehow... well, I can.. but it's funnier the other way. ) My typical evening ride from work to home starts with some entry-level trials training in the streets, and then I'm off to a nearby forest that has some interesting terrain features (but also lots of snow). It's generally hard to find places to ride when so much snow is around..

    Then again, I don't even need to ride to a forest to find myself hub deep in the snow. All it takes is to mess up handling on a skinny one-man wide path that pedestrians have trodden through some snow-covered yard. )

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Incorrect. Several lines of hydraulic discs are bleedable without kits, something I've criticized the companies using them for. Hope and Shimano allow bleeds without kits and are incredibly easy.

    As far as lever replacements, one can get replacement Hope levers for about $20. I have been involved in several crashed with them, including ones that have bent the levers and I bent them back and they are fine.
    I knew that someone would mention Hope in this regard. ) Yes, that's very right - Hope seems to be the best choice of serviceable hydraulics. However, I do like to have bombproof backup options, and mechanical discs fit this description the best in my book. For me, it's hydraulic disks on FS trailbike, and mechanical disks on the hardtail. This kind of... evens out overall complexity of each bike, I think.
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  89. #89
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    Have'nt read the whole thread but I have had XTR-v's on ceramic rims, XT/LX-v's/magura hydraulic/XT canti/ on regular and now I run crappy shimano m485 discs on my newest bike, I like the discs better than all others, even tho these are low grade discs, theyre just more dependable in all kinds of weather, snow, rain, ice and -20C they work just as good (but at -20C they freeze up kinda, like the rest of the bike, need DOT brakes), scary downhills, no problem. The only enviroment I havent tried them in is in dry warm weather. But i guess they would work good there too.The only brake that would come close is the maguras, but discs are still better imo, even crappy ones like the m485s.
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  90. #90
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    NO QUICK RELEASE!
    Decision make for me, as i take the front wheel off to transport everywhere.

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