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  1. #1
    Knollician
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    Tech M4 vs. Formula R1

    Anyone have any experience with both? My only complaint with the M4s is the noise, and I have tried everything. Different pad compounds and manufacturers, facing, the alignment is spot on and there is not contamination. I will be trying new rotors this weekend.

    Strangely, I have better luck with sintered pads. They are much quieter than the any of the organics I have tried, but still sound like fingernals on a chalkboard.

    My previous Formula brakes were all dead silent.

    Thanks for your help!
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  2. #2
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    I had this problem with my rear brake. Embarrassing on group rides. I was running a 183 front and 160 rear with organic pads . Replaced them with the sintered and 183 rear and that was the ticket (for now).

    I had luck quieting them down with a lot of rubbing alcohol and sanding down the pads too. But at that point my pads were probably too contaminated cause the squealing came back after 10-15 minutes into the ride.

  3. #3
    Knollician
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth1972
    I had this problem with my rear brake. Embarrassing on group rides. I was running a 183 front and 160 rear with organic pads . Replaced them with the sintered and 183 rear and that was the ticket (for now).

    I had luck quieting them down with a lot of rubbing alcohol and sanding down the pads too. But at that point my pads were probably too contaminated cause the squealing came back after 10-15 minutes into the ride.
    Yep, done all if that. New pads, cleaned and torched the rotors, did the "mud treatment" per Hope, etc. It is embarrasing, but more importantly the screeching takes away from my concentration. I love the Hopes since they are just so reliable, consistent, beautiful, and just work. But I have to finad a solution. Gonna try some Hayes rotors and see if that helps.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  4. #4
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    Is it both brakes? What size rotors? I know it's a pain, but have you tried switching calipers front-to-rear?
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  5. #5
    Knollician
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveUK
    Is it both brakes? What size rotors? I know it's a pain, but have you tried switching calipers front-to-rear?

    Front only, 183 sawtooth. I have not swapped calipers front to back. I am going to put on a Hayes adapter and rotor this weekend to see if it solves the issue.

    Also, the noise is only at a certain pressure. If I am light or real hard, there is no noise. But in the "mid stroke" its like a Banshee. Right now, I am running Shimano sintereds which are not known for being quiet, but significantly better than any organics I have run. Looking at throwing in a set of Goodridge sintereds to see if that helps.

    I live in the desert where it is super dry, and I use my compressor to blow out the dust from the calipers and rotors after each ride.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  6. #6
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    Before you spend any more money on pads, try swapping calipers; although before that, it has to be worth spending some time making sure that all four pistons are working properly. If you extend them all with a large washer/spacer in the rotor gap (like this), you'll be able to clean the pistons and get some lube onto the pistons and seals (see below). Extend-lube-clean-lube-depress the pistons three or four times, then double-check alignment, refit the pads and get them aligned. Don't worry too much if pistons move at slightly different rates when there are no pads in - they should balance out once the pads are in and they have a rotor to clamp onto.

    I suspect that the Hayes adaptor will be incompatible with Hope's funky 183mm rotor.

    I live in the desert where it is super dry, and I use my compressor to blow out the dust from the calipers and rotors after each ride.
    I see the potential for a problem here. Compressed air is indiscriminate and can just as easily push particles down between the caliper and the piston (and into the seals) as it can push it out and away. I'm not saying that this is necessarily the cause of, or contributing to, your problem, but it's a pertinent consideration.

    Believe it or not, we have trouble with dust in the UK (no, really, we do!!). I use 3-in-1's silicone spray lubricant to keep my calipers clean all year round. Obviously the wheel/rotor needs to come out, so it's a slower job than blastign air in, but, with the excess wiped away, it'll dry without damp residue and actually stops much dust gathering in the first place. I spray the caliper, wiped up as much as I can with a soft cloth and clean the exposed parts of the pistons with a cotton tip. The real bonus of the silicone spray is that the stuff that gets doen between the piston and the caliper will help to keep the seals supple and the pistons moving smoothly.
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  7. #7
    Knollician
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    Thanks for the info, I do not have any sticky pistons and I actually perform the pad centralization on each set of pistons. First, I do the basic to get it really close, then I work the front or rear set, sometime right to left depending how the pads are touching. I have spent litteraly hours just getting the pads to hit the rotor perfectly.

    When I mount the caliper, I put the wheel in and use feeler guages to perfectly center the caliper top and bottom.

    I have tried everything imaginable, including using some CRC brake squeal (a rubberized goo that goes on the back of the pad...it has helped a bit) so that is why I can only think that the rotor is the culprit. Maybe there is something wrong with one or more of the rivots? So I am going to mount a Hayes rotor (using a hayes adapter due to the goofy Hope 183 sizing) to see.

    I am at wits end with the noise. They have been noisy from day 1.

    Edit: I just recently started to blow off the caliper/rotor, as I was trying to account for brake dust.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  8. #8
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    Strange I have Tech M4s and they're quiet even in the (usual UK)wet.I previously had Avid Ultimates which wailed like a banshee
    I have a 203F and 185R both with floating sawtooth rotors.I haven't tried anything but sintered pads but am considering Kevlar for a forthcoming trip if the weather stays as dry as it's been recently.I doubt I'd use any other brakes after have these

  9. #9
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    I align my Hopes not by the Avid method. When using that method, I get noise. When making sure the caliper is centered over the rotor, all is well.

  10. #10
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    Tech m4 vs the one

    I just switched from tech m4 to some 2010 the ones. I really liked the hopes, rode them for close to a year. Unlike the others, mine were completely silent, all winter and all summer in thw pacific northwest, lots of mud and rain. Those were the best I used so far.

    Been a month on the ones, they are every bit as good. I felt like the hopes did not bring on the power soon enough, almost like there was too much modulation. That being said they were plenty powerful, and were a treat to run.

    The ones.seem to be more powerful with a lot less effort. They really grab, but still have great, modulation. Dont modulate as well as the hopes, but damn good. They also have.very little clearance from pad to rotor, so took a little.more fiddling to get right. They are running silent with no drag. I do get some high pitch squeak from the rear on initial pull, but that is gome pretty quick, only to return on next application. Have not been able to eliminate.

    Overall rrally pleased with both, if I kill the squeek from rear, the formula are better. Not by much, but better. Oh, and the ones are freakin light.....

  11. #11
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    Wrap the chainstay in rubber; might fix the rear howling. IF you come up with a solution for the front, I am all ears .

  12. #12
    Knollician
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    Threw a brand new Hayes 203 rotor on the bike today and that was NOT the answer. Wow, Hope and Hayes don't play well. It started out pretty good, but as the pads/rotor bedded in, they began to screetch and vibrate. Jeez, though I was on a set of Avids suddenly.

    So...I think it is time to try the Goodridge sintered pads which I have had very good luck with on my V2s.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  13. #13
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    I've had great luck using Magura's wavy rotors (not the Marta ones) with Hope. I never had the noise problem to begin with, but I've nonetheless used the Maggie rotors with good results.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by junktrunk
    I've had great luck using Magura's wavy rotors (not the Marta ones) with Hope. I never had the noise problem to begin with, but I've nonetheless used the Maggie rotors with good results.

    Thanks, I have looked into those. I do feel there are many advantages to the floating rotors though, even more than just the heat dissipation. I find that they are much stronger, and stay true. If they do go out of true, they are very easy to put back in. Oh, and they look nice too

    Anyway, some here might cringe, but I am very interested in the new Hayes Prime Pro. Just might have to see what they are all about.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  15. #15
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    I understand about your reservations and the advantages. I run the floating ones myself, but I have not had any concerns with warping with the non-floaters. The thickness of the Maggie rotor is perhaps even more than 2.0, and a bit stiffer. Heat dissipation would need to be quantified, but I have not yet had trouble with fading on these Maggies when I used them on 2000+ meter descents.

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