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  1. #1
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    Storing bike w/Martas upside down

    I'm going to invest in new disc wheels and brakes this fall. Trying to decide which brakes. Magura Martas seem to be the brake of choice these days, and the light weight appeals since I am pretty strictly an XC rider.

    The manual for my Fox Float RL Fork says to store the bike upside down to let oil run into the foam rings and keep them saturated. But I seem to recall reading that storing a bike with Martas upside down will cause them to need bleeding more often.

    Do any of you Fox/Marta owners have any thoughts on this?

    Maybe I should just get some Avid Juicys. Low maintenance is a top priority for me, but I'm pretty sure I want to go hydraulic.

  2. #2
    Bodhisattva
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    Hydros are hydros and the principals of not storing any of them upside down are the same. The majority of problems with any hydro brake arises from improperly bleeding & installation.

    Bottom line: if the brakes are bled properly, there is no problem storing them upside down. It is only when they are improperly bled, and air is hiding in the system, that turning them can create problems. It's not the act of turning them upside down, but rather the simple disloding of hidden air bubbles.

    As for the Fox, I've had 2 Fox forxs over the past 3 years and haven't had any problems with the foam rings & I store mine in a stand upright. Every few months I'll lift up the seals and add a small amount of fork oil to the foam rings but they've always been moist except after long winter storage.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  3. #3
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat
    Magura Martas seem to be the brake of choice these days.....I seem to recall reading that storing a bike with Martas upside down will cause them to need bleeding more often.
    Let's take a look at this and insert some reasoning. Air getting into the brake system when the bike is inverted is always user error. If you read 1Speed Mike's fine bleeding instructions that were posted on this forum today it's impossible for this inversion air entry to happen. Just about the same instructions (provide to me by MaguraUSA) are on my Magura Cult site.

    If air does get into your lines due to inversion it can only get there from one source - the reservoir. It couldn't have been in the lines before this or you would have had a spongy brake.

    If you follow all of Mike's instructions to the letter (this why no-one should let anyone else bleed their brakes!) then you could ride your bike upside down while pumping the brakes and no air could enter. How could it? There's none in your system.

    Mike's explanation of expelling the air from the reservoir is perfect. How could it not be? He's an engineer and hydraulic bicycle brake expert.

    As your pads wear and fluid is needed from the reservoir to extend the pistons, the bellows expands and air enters BEHIND the bellows through the cap vent hole. This allows internal reservoir pressure to equalize. The bellows is a flexible membrane that separates the fluid from the atmosphere.

    If you change pads at the factory recommended thickness then the reservoir (and bellows) will have enough capacity to accommodate the wear.

    Don't fault Maguras because of the inexperience of others.

    Mike T. (mcm # 717 & FOG)
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    Don't fault Maguras because of the inexperience of others.

    Mike T. (mcm # 717 & FOG)
    Read my post carefully. I wasn't "faulting Maguras because of the inexperience of others".

    I wrote that I had read somewhere that storing Magura brakes upside down caused them to need bleeding more often. This is different from making such an assertion myself.

    I am not an expert on the conditions under which air gets into hydraulic disc brake lines, causing them to need bleeding, because I have never owned disc brakes.

    The point of my post was pretty clearly to inquire whether what I had read about upside down storage of Maguras was an issue or not, given that I have a Fox and they recommend storing bikes with their forks upside down.

    I do appreciate knowledgeable people debunking this apparent myth.

  5. #5
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    Mike T, 1Speed, and Squeeky,

    Thanks for expelling the myth and settling this once and for all. I just got the Martas (non-SL, great looking in BLACK btw!) and am loving it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DALI
    Mike T, 1Speed, and Squeeky,

    Thanks for expelling the myth and settling this once and for all. I just got the Martas (non-SL, great looking in BLACK btw!) and am loving it.
    No worries! Enjoy your new Martas and welcome to the Cult!
    Ride Hard,
    Mike B. (MCM# 7.77)
    http://www.one-speed.com

  7. #7
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    This is my first cult!

    BTW, I just received my latest MBAction magazine last night and it was ironic that they recommended as a rule of thumb not to hang one's bike updside down with disc brakes. I do enjoy the magazine (advertising, perceived bias and all), but this was the first time I strongly disagreed with them. Especially after reading the well informed posts here.

    Now I'm off to riding. Final note -- I never thought I would use any brake levers other than Avids (I had the Ultimates previously mated to Avid Mechanicals) but the Martas are just as swank!

  8. #8
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by DALI
    Final note -- I never thought I would use any brake levers other than Avids (I had the Ultimates previously mated to Avid Mechanicals) but the Martas are just as swank!
    Funny you should say that. Over the past few years I had briefly tried Avid Mechs on various bikes. My impressions were strong but grabby & I didn't particularly care for them.

    Recently I've been riding my friend's bike a lot which has a 8" front & 7" rear Avid Mech and really liking them. Not more than my Louise FR, but more than I have in the past. Then again, it's a 35# freeride bike so the extra weight & a bit of grabbiness doesn't hurt.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  9. #9
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    Marta newbie

    Hey guys I was just reading your post and I finally jumped on the hydro bandwagon and ordererd a set of martas not the sl. I have been riding avid mech. discs for about 2 years. I know there are some major performance increases from cable to hydro but I was curious about the bike hanging thing. I currently hang mine not upside down but from the front wheel. Cuts down on the clutter in my garage. Me being new to hydros I do not want to incur any headaches to my first experience. What I'm getting at I guess is can you truely store the bike hanging upside down or by the front wheel?
    Thanks for any info.

  10. #10
    Bodhisattva
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    Tom,

    I don't mean to sound rude, but have you read this thread?
    Life....the original terminal illness

  11. #11
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    I have

    I guess if they are properly maintained is the correct answer. Sorry trying to squeeze in net time at work. Was in a hurry. Do you have experience wiyh hanging bikes with hydros or is this speculation?
    Thanks

  12. #12
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom schoonveld
    I guess if they are properly maintained is the correct answer. Sorry trying to squeeze in net time at work. Was in a hurry. Do you have experience wiyh hanging bikes with hydros or is this speculation?
    Thanks
    Correct.
    Let me capsulize this for you: the system is closed. Air cannot enter. Hidden air can be dislodged by turning the bike upside down, turning it sideways, upright, looking at it funny, thinking bad thoughts, etc....
    Any "need to bleed" caused by movement of the bike is the sole result of incorrect bleeding in the first place.
    Yes, I have first hand experience.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  13. #13
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom schoonveld
    I know there are some major performance increases from cable to hydro.
    Can you share these major performance increases with us?
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

  14. #14
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    If you can store the bike upside down ... can you

    Run the levers on the opposite side ? and upside down ?
    The reason I ask is I have a set that I have not mounted yet , but they are prebled and are left/front and Right/back . by running them upside down they are left/back right/front.

    I am bit worried to try and switch the lines.
    thanks

  15. #15
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH_WP
    Run the levers on the opposite side ? and upside down ?
    The reason I ask is I have a set that I have not mounted yet , but they are prebled and are left/front and Right/back . by running them upside down they are left/back right/front.
    I am bit worried to try and switch the lines.
    thanks

    Running levers upside down is not the thing to do but most hydraulic brakes can have their lines switched without bleeding. I know this is a fact with Magura and Formula brakes. You didn't tell us what you have so I can't be more specific.

    Mike T. (mcm # 717 & FOG)
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

  16. #16
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    The brakes would be..

    The Marta SL's

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    Running levers upside down is not the thing to do but most hydraulic brakes can have their lines switched without bleeding. I know this is a fact with Magura and Formula brakes. You didn't tell us what you have so I can't be more specific.

    Mike T. (mcm # 717 & FOG)

  17. #17
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH_WP
    The Marta SL's

    Uhh then no sweat. The info will be on Magura's site under shop manual downloads, in your yellow shop manual or on my Magura Cult site. It's under the "Shortening Hose" section in the manuals. On my site it's under Self-Adjust brakes/Brake Lines/Going Moto. Read mine first

    Mike T. (mcm # 717)
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

  18. #18
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    Thanks for the info

    The brakes are not on the bike yet and are sitting in the box. Suppose it is easyer doing the swap on the bike. will try the weekend.
    thanks for the info , love the site .. you must really love your brakes , cant wait to try them out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    Uhh then no sweat. The info will be on Magura's site under shop manual downloads, in your yellow shop manual or on my Magura Cult site. It's under the "Shortening Hose" section in the manuals. On my site it's under Self-Adjust brakes/Brake Lines/Going Moto. Read mine first

    Mike T. (mcm # 717)

  19. #19
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH_WP
    The brakes are not on the bike yet and are sitting in the box. Suppose it is easyer doing the swap on the bike. will try the weekend.
    thanks for the info , love the site .. you must really love your brakes , cant wait to try them out.

    Thanks for the praise on the site. Do the switcheroo with the brakes on the bike as it holds things firmer plus you may need to shorten the lines anyway. Of course I have that info too. Don't forget the most importand thing - " Don't let that line wave around, wag, dangle or snap away while you're doing the swap or you WILL lose fluid. Move slowly and use a helper."

    I personally wouldn't attempt this without having a bleed kit on hand. Murphy's Law is relentless.

    Mike T. (mcm # 717 & FOG)
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

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