Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,365

    Some thoughts on pads for Avid Juicys

    I live in a wet place. A very wet place. Pad longevity, wet-braking performance, and anti-squeal are my top priorities. I have run a lot of different compounds through my brakes and I thought I'd pass on what some my experiences are.

    Here is what I have used so far:
    Avid ACP (ancient: long phased out)
    Avid UCP (old: long phased out)
    Avid B3 (old: long phased out)
    Avid C4 (recent pad)
    Avid C4 "G" (late 2003 update to the C4)
    Avid B4 (current shipping pad)
    EBC Gold (requires serious modification to fit Juicy caliper)
    Aztec for Avid (run away from these worthless lawyer-bait POS!!!!)
    Fibrax FMC (requires heavy modification to fit Juicy caliper)

    The champs for wet weather are the EBC Gold pads and the Avid B4. The Golds ran pretty silently and provided good power and feel for most of last winter (wet), and though much of our Utah road trip (dry). I swapped them out for Avid C4 pads after a couple hundred Utah miles to save them for home. Back home again (wet) the C4s I had put in in Utah (dry) started howling immediately, so I reinstalled the Golds, and surprise, they were now noisy too. I torched/sanded/shook chicken bones over them, but they did not come back to their pre-Utah performance. Odd. Overall, the new Avid B4s are the best wet pads, though the Golds are very good when cooperating.

    My most recent trial was with the Fibrax FMC pads. Dry performance was fine, but wet brake power was pathetic. For a pad billed as being a wet/mud pad, the things were noisy and seemingly greased when damp. They look very similar to the EBC Golds in carrier, and similar in compound so I wondered if they came from the same factory, but their behavior on the bike is quite different. The Golds spank them handily.

    The Aztec friction material sloughs off the carrier at normal operating temperatures. A totally worthless product. They didn't even survive bedding-in.

    My first set of Juicys are almost a year old now. In the back the pistons were getting sticky, retraction slowly and incompletely, not snappy. I took the pads out, held one piston in place and pumped the lever to advance the other piston into the rotor slot until I could pull it all the way out. Brake fluid obviously ran all over with the piston gone. I wiped the piston clean and put it back in the caliper. I did a very very rough bleed, then pumped the other piston out and cleaned it up too (I could not find a way to get the second piston out without doing a basic bleed to use the lever as a pump) then put it back. I followed this with a more careful bleed. Blammo! Snappy, fully-retracting, factory fresh brakes again. If you live in a wet place and regularly bake gooey scum into your caliper and your Juicys are getting tired and it is time to get the gummy crap out of the seals, this works well. I just use some generic walmart DOT fluid (cheap) since the performance is the same as Avid's stuff and you end up wasting a lot of fluid doing this.

    I still love the Juicys silly. I would like to try some Martas but the bleed needs scare me off (I like how the Juicys bleed- no mess, easy), and the new El Caminos look very sweet.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  2. #2
    Feeding your addiction
    Reputation: Ventanarama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    2,667
    Good info as always Philip. I got some Galfer pads in recently for the Juicy's, anxious to try those and see how they compare. If the quality is as good as the rotors (I'm running Galfer wavy 185 front & rear with my Juicy's) then they could be a winner.
    Larry Mettler
    http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com
    "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity". - Dave Barry

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,520

    I've had fair results with EBC red and B4 but...

    My experience as been, let's say, a bit mysterious.

    My front Juicy (with original Avid pads) has been trouble free and squeal free from the beginning except for a minute or two when they get wet.

    My rear Juicy is another story. Squealing and all sorts of random and misterious noises. I've used the original pads, the Avid C4 and EBC red. I even changed the rotor for the Avid mech rotor which helped quite a bit. The Avid pads are definitely more problematic with squealing. The EBC red are almost perfect. I have a pair of EBC green that I have yet to try out. Lately, I've had this kind of random "chirping" noise. I thought it was my pedals but last night I discovered that it was my rear brake again. I'm not sure yet if it could by my hub that is loose, my QR that has moved a bit, my calliper that needs a new tightening or whatever else. Anyway, I have to check it out. I am thinking about getting myself one of those Hope Spot disc mount facing tool. Maybe my rear end is not so strait and that is why I'm always getting these weird random noises.

    Bottom line, I love those Avid Juicy and I'm undecided about which brakes I'll be buying for my girlfriend's bike soon. Juicy or ElCamino!!! ElCamino seem very nice, if they are much lighter than my Juicy this might justify the decision since my girlfriend needs light stuff!

    Cheers.

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I live in a wet place. A very wet place. Pad longevity, wet-braking performance, and anti-squeal are my top priorities. I have run a lot of different compounds through my brakes and I thought I'd pass on what some my experiences are.

    Here is what I have used so far:
    Avid ACP (ancient: long phased out)
    Avid UCP (old: long phased out)
    Avid B3 (old: long phased out)
    Avid C4 (recent pad)
    Avid C4 "G" (late 2003 update to the C4)
    Avid B4 (current shipping pad)
    EBC Gold (requires serious modification to fit Juicy caliper)
    Aztec for Avid (run away from these worthless lawyer-bait POS!!!!)
    Fibrax FMC (requires heavy modification to fit Juicy caliper)

    The champs for wet weather are the EBC Gold pads and the Avid B4. The Golds ran pretty silently and provided good power and feel for most of last winter (wet), and though much of our Utah road trip (dry). I swapped them out for Avid C4 pads after a couple hundred Utah miles to save them for home. Back home again (wet) the C4s I had put in in Utah (dry) started howling immediately, so I reinstalled the Golds, and surprise, they were now noisy too. I torched/sanded/shook chicken bones over them, but they did not come back to their pre-Utah performance. Odd. Overall, the new Avid B4s are the best wet pads, though the Golds are very good when cooperating.

    My most recent trial was with the Fibrax FMC pads. Dry performance was fine, but wet brake power was pathetic. For a pad billed as being a wet/mud pad, the things were noisy and seemingly greased when damp. They look very similar to the EBC Golds in carrier, and similar in compound so I wondered if they came from the same factory, but their behavior on the bike is quite different. The Golds spank them handily.

    The Aztec friction material sloughs off the carrier at normal operating temperatures. A totally worthless product. They didn't even survive bedding-in.

    My first set of Juicys are almost a year old now. In the back the pistons were getting sticky, retraction slowly and incompletely, not snappy. I took the pads out, held one piston in place and pumped the lever to advance the other piston into the rotor slot until I could pull it all the way out. Brake fluid obviously ran all over with the piston gone. I wiped the piston clean and put it back in the caliper. I did a very very rough bleed, then pumped the other piston out and cleaned it up too (I could not find a way to get the second piston out without doing a basic bleed to use the lever as a pump) then put it back. I followed this with a more careful bleed. Blammo! Snappy, fully-retracting, factory fresh brakes again. If you live in a wet place and regularly bake gooey scum into your caliper and your Juicys are getting tired and it is time to get the gummy crap out of the seals, this works well. I just use some generic walmart DOT fluid (cheap) since the performance is the same as Avid's stuff and you end up wasting a lot of fluid doing this.

    I still love the Juicys silly. I would like to try some Martas but the bleed needs scare me off (I like how the Juicys bleed- no mess, easy), and the new El Caminos look very sweet.

  4. #4
    Riding free's the mind
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,003

    Question about pads

    Tscheezy

    In your experience, have you noticed that the stock Avid pads that come with Juicy's leave a kind of dark colored wear ring on the rotors? I also get this harsh vibration from my rear caliper every couple rides- almost like I've got rubber pads?

    Second question- is it possible to over-fill the system with too much brake fluid? My last bleed, I noticed the reservoir bubble was kind of sucked in, so I pressurized the system by pumping more fluid with the syring. Now it seems like the pads are running too close to the rotors and getting a lot of scrape. The up side is that the pads engage very quickly with little lever throw.
    [SIZE=2]Question to a custom frame builder..."So what makes your bikes climb better?"....his answer, "Uh, your legs?"[/SIZE]

  5. #5
    No, that's not phonetic
    Reputation: tscheezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    14,365
    I have not noticed that any particular pad makes more or less marks on the rotors. I also ride in wet conditions so they get "rinsed" often. I would not worry about a few black circles. If they are putting out lots of black goo, there is a problem though.

    I think you can overfill and it may lead to heat expansion problems (lockup). I noticed that reservoir housing cupping in thing too when I follow the directions. It is a matter of the instructions telling you to push the pads all the way into the caliper before bleeding, but then they want to sit a bit inboard the rotor slot when actually operating later, so they pull a suction on the reservoir. It does not seem to be a problem, but during my last bleed I left the pads in the caliper, and the wheel/rotor mounted, so I ended up with a "neutral" reservoir pressure. You should not need to do anything special during the bleed to get the pads to engage quickly since you can just back the Speed Dial all the way out to achieve that. I guess there is a limit to that adjustment, but you can make them grab pretty quick if you want. It would eliminate the rub by letting the pistons relax fully.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  6. #6
    banned
    Reputation: jaco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    656
    Me thoughts you was a Mono Mini user....BTW will those galfer rotors work with the minis?

  7. #7
    Riding free's the mind
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,003

    Dark ring

    My brakes seem to be settling in. There's a slight rub in the front, but nothing that's worth going through the whole bleed thing for now. I think I'd better just leave it alone for now.

    However, I still get this nasty howl and vibration in the rear, seems to occur after not using the rear brake for a few minutes. The weather was very foggy and drizzly which I think contributed to the vib. Strange tho, after a couple harder pulls on the lever, it goes away. Still wondering if there's something up with my pads as I have that dark ring where the pads rub the rotor?
    [SIZE=2]Question to a custom frame builder..."So what makes your bikes climb better?"....his answer, "Uh, your legs?"[/SIZE]

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,198
    Hey Phil, I use compressed air to pop out the pistons.
    You can pump one out with the fluid, then I usually put it back in and pump air into the bleed nipple to pop the other out.
    It works fine on hayes, should work for the juicy's too.

    I've also found working them in and out a few times will unstick and clean a piston reasonably well.

    To avoid overfilling hayes, I push the pistons back flush and completely fill the system. When the pads come in to the rotor, the reservoir finds a happy medium.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Service Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
    SPV Devolve

Similar Threads

  1. deore discs?
    By xisaacx in forum Brake Time
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 07-06-2004, 04:44 PM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-03-2004, 12:49 PM
  3. Aztec pads for Avid discs: Extreme Danger!
    By tscheezy in forum Brake Time
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-03-2004, 05:59 PM
  4. New Avid pads don't fit Rim Wrangler shoes
    By Dr.Faustus in forum Apparel and Protection
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-29-2004, 02:04 PM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-07-2004, 09:30 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •