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  1. #1
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    Rim brakes are better than disk, we've been sold LIES!

    I dont care how much you "break in" hydrolic disk brakes, they cause friction, make you work harder to go slower, and require more maintenence than a bike should ever need.Six years ago i bought an aluminum frame $600 bike with a Deore shift set, sun rims, and a marzocci fork, and Shimano RIM BRAKES. In SIX FREAKIN YEARS I HAD NO SERVICE REQUIRED for the brakes. I adjusted the tension of the wire from time to time but please... And u know what, the bike stopped just as well if not better than my new bike with Juicy 3 Hy. disk brakes. My new brakes cause friction, this is like the one thing I would want to avoid in a MTN bike besides a cracked frame. I just bought a $1300 bike, and it takes me 15-25% longer to get where I'm going because of the new "upgrade" on the brakes.

    I read all these post talking about "bleeding the fluid evry couple months" and "cleaning the rotor with alcohol" and all this crap, and its not hard, its easy-- but time consuming and stupid as hell.

    I love the bike I just bought for $1200, I would like it more with Rim brakes for $1000, It would GO FASTER and be more convienent. Great frame, great fork, great shift, great rims, RIM BRAKES..This is what I'm looking for in a couple years in a MTN bike.

  2. #2
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    hmmm i disagree
    ive had my cheap quad sp-1 hydraulics a few years and had no problems with them, havnt needed bleeding or any maintenance at all, and theyre at the low end of the market

    obviously bleeding them and cleaning the rotors is gonna make the brake funtion at its maximum potential, but its not neccessary in most cases, you just do it because you can and it might make a slight difference

    and is an hour a year or every 6 months that bad? dont know about you but i like fiddling and messing with things, it helps me learn how
    things work and for me its part of the enjoyable part of bikes

    (by the way its friction between the rotor and pads that stops the bike.....so more is better
    i dont know what sort of "friction" your talking about lol

    what disc brakes has your new bike got?

    sorry didnt see juicy 3's
    ive tried them and they seemed good to me, stopped me a hell of a lot quicker than any rim brake ive ever tried
    low maintenance too, seriosuly i dont think you need to bleed them all the time and clean the rotors etc, as long as the systems completely sealed, your ready to roll.... and then stop.... quickly

  3. #3
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    it's a matter of convenience, to me.
    i'm not sure about weight comparisons, but i do know that rim brakes are somewhat simpler to maintain, and perform relatively well in most conditions...disk brakes shine in the wet and muddy conditions, but require more maintenance, and are substantially more expensive.
    I ride a 26'er with tubes and rim brakes.
    Yeah, I'm basically living in the stone age.

  4. #4
    squish is good
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    Quote Originally Posted by STACK
    Rim brakes are better than disk, we've been sold LIES!
    No they aren't. You're wrong.
    Bike good, work bad.

  5. #5
    Hic-A-Doo-La!
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    Quote Originally Posted by STACK
    I dont care how much you "break in" hydrolic disk brakes, they cause friction, make you work harder to go slower, and require more maintenence than a bike should ever need.Six years ago i bought an aluminum frame $600 bike with a Deore shift set, sun rims, and a marzocci fork, and Shimano RIM BRAKES. In SIX FREAKIN YEARS I HAD NO SERVICE REQUIRED for the brakes. I adjusted the tension of the wire from time to time but please...
    I have a bike with rim brakes that hasn't needed any service for at least 6 yrs also, because it's been sitting in my basement. The amount of time means nothing, it's the frequency of use.

  6. #6
    Braaaapp!
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    You can argue that rim brakes need maintance as well. Cleaning the rims, pads, adjusting pad toe-in, lubing the cables, lubing the pivot points, etc. You are neglecting these and still say the brakes are fine. I'm sure you could ignore disk brake maintance and not notice either then.

    I have a VERY hard time believing that your discs are causing enough drag to make you 15-25% slower. If they are rubbing that badly then something is out of adjustment (just like a rim brake can be). Or different tires could have more rolling resistance. Or a heavier wheelset. Or (per your other posts), the geometry just isn't right for you since you went from a 21" to an 18" frame.

    Don't blame the brakes yet. Discs are proven to be good performers

  7. #7
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    im sorry you have such trouble maintaining something so easy to keep up with. the rest of us dont.

    dont worry though, in a couple years when you're ready for a new bike, im sure you'll understand disc operation by then

  8. #8
    Prez NMBA
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    you also need to take into consideration the life of the wheel with rim brakes as they erode the braking surface and eventually need replacement much sooner than a disk wheel would

  9. #9
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    Agreed!

    Disks add weight, complexity and cost.

    There are only 2 situations that favor disks: extreme downhill riding and riding in mud. None of us should be riding in mud, since this damages the trails, so disks are just for DH riders, and aren't actually required for that.

    I'm so happy that my Epic has rim brakes (XTRs), and dread the day I may have to replace it as the new models are disk-only.

    ..it's just an opinion, folks.

    jeff
    Last edited by noodletips; 04-06-2009 at 03:44 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clutchman83
    No they aren't. You're wrong.
    I routinely use inferior items on my bike, thusly I'm using disc brakes.

  11. #11
    Former Bike Wrench
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    None of us should be riding in mud, since this damages the trails
    Typical Californicator response ...guess what, there are places where not riding in the mud means no riding for 8 months of the year. And in those places, its disc brakes and replace the pads or rim brakes and replace the pads and rims each year. Yes, when I was going to school at UNLV and riding the Mustang Trails...disc brakes would have been overkill. But when I returned to the PNW...its not the same situation.

  12. #12
    bi-winning
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    Quote Originally Posted by STACK
    it takes me 15-25% longer to get where I'm going because of the new "upgrade" on the brakes.
    You're doing something wrong.

    Your brakes should be running drag free, and only causing friction when you command them to do so by pulling the lever.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  13. #13
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    hes also running j3's.. you cant use the bottom of the barrel hydraulic as a sweeping generalization for hydraulic brakes.

  14. #14
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    Can't wait for Nino to find this thread!

  15. #15
    Pedaler of dirt
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    Quote Originally Posted by STACK
    In SIX FREAKIN YEARS I HAD NO SERVICE REQUIRED for the brakes. I adjusted the tension of the wire from time to time but please...
    .
    Did you actually ride the bike in six years??

    You never had to replace pads or worn out rims?

    Disks are so much easier to look after than rims brakes? I ride in mud, dust and sand all year and the only thing I have to replace is pads ever few months. No tools required.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

  16. #16
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    Fer F@cks sake people


  17. #17
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    Quote Originally Posted by STACK
    I dont care how much you "break in" hydrolic disk brakes, they cause friction, make you work harder to go slower, and require more maintenence than a bike should ever need.Six years ago i bought an aluminum frame $600 bike with a Deore shift set, sun rims, and a marzocci fork, and Shimano RIM BRAKES. In SIX FREAKIN YEARS I HAD NO SERVICE REQUIRED for the brakes. I adjusted the tension of the wire from time to time but please... And u know what, the bike stopped just as well if not better than my new bike with Juicy 3 Hy. disk brakes. My new brakes cause friction, this is like the one thing I would want to avoid in a MTN bike besides a cracked frame. I just bought a $1300 bike, and it takes me 15-25% longer to get where I'm going because of the new "upgrade" on the brakes.

    I read all these post talking about "bleeding the fluid evry couple months" and "cleaning the rotor with alcohol" and all this crap, and its not hard, its easy-- but time consuming and stupid as hell.

    I love the bike I just bought for $1200, I would like it more with Rim brakes for $1000, It would GO FASTER and be more convienent. Great frame, great fork, great shift, great rims, RIM BRAKES..This is what I'm looking for in a couple years in a MTN bike.
    Three things:

    1- I refuse to believe you have not had to replace or re-adjust the pads in 6 years unless you never ride. I also refuse to believe that your brakes did not feel like crap if you never replaced the cables in six years.

    2- You are comparing v-s to lower end hydros that are OBVIOUSLY mis-aligned.

    3- The advantage of disc is not the sheer stopping power. In dry conditions on shorter stops, v's are just as powerful as most 6" discs if set up well(which few people ever did). It is the consistency in all conditions, greater control, and lack of fade that make them better.

    I think v-brakes are fine, and I ran them on my ss up until two years ago, but a set of bb7's have them beat in every way.

    I had a set of Hayes Hydros a few years back and they were a nightmare, and I regretted going disc. Then I got some bb7's and I've been a happy camper ever since.

    If you do mostly xc riding , in a dry climate with no long downhills that require a lot of braking, the benefits of disc are not going to be as useful, but they should be stopping you every bit as well as your v's, and not dragging. You need to get yours set up right if you want to have an intelligent opinion about this.

  18. #18
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    You ever try to get back to the truck with a bent wheel? With disc brakes you at least still have brakes to use.
    Team MOJO Wheels.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007
    Fer F@cks sake people

    Exactly. Im surprised people are actually giving serious replies.

  20. #20
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    It defintely sounds like something is out of adjustment. On another note, even though the Juicy 3s are low level Hydraulics, properly adjusted they should still stop you worlds better than a cable activated rim brake.

  21. #21
    Bicyclochondriac.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLMike
    Exactly. Im surprised people are actually giving serious replies.
    I feel so silly, now.

  22. #22
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    BB7"s
    next time

    [QUOTE=spazzy] Might as well sell your bikes, E-riding is much more productive.

  23. #23
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    Damn. I gotta go out and get me some rim brakes on my car and motorcycle.
    Gotta get up to get down.
    LMB

  24. #24
    Doctor
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsteele
    You ever try to get back to the truck with a bent wheel? With disc brakes you at least still have brakes to use.
    ..you make a valid point. touché


    jeff

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72
    Typical Californicator response
    ..guilty as charged. And I see your point.

    jeff

  26. #26
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    I generally agree with you about rim brakes.

    I just built up two race bikes for teenagers and the rim brakes have been working well. Easy to set up, no maintenance, stops well in XC conditions.

    And for cheaper bikes, I much rather have rim brakes than cheap disc brakes.

    But before you jump off your soapbox, rim brakes do not stop as well as discs, particularly when the conditions become more extreme: steep and/or long descents and wet conditions.

    Now, if I was rolling strictly easy descents, then I could use rim brakes. Move to real downhills, then rim brakes are woefully inadequate. I think the biggest problem with rim brakes is the lock-up factor.

    You might be able to lock up your wheel, but that's not braking. Control over speed is proper braking. Then discs are vastly superior to rim brakes, which is why you see only disc brakes on the big mountains.

  27. #27
    one less car
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clutchman83
    No they aren't. You're wrong.
    agreed. for yrs i've had rim brakes on whatever bike i owned at the time. then i got one with discs and there's no way in hell i'll go back to rim if i can avoid it. got an adapter for the TREK to convert the rear. just hope the rotor fits the stays
    nothing in life is real, so if anything goes wrong, blame the dead guy

  28. #28
    is buachail foighneach me
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    while the OP is obviously just trolling or riding aml-adjusted disks, i do personally still prefer magura hs-33 rim brakes to any of the hydraulics disks i've used for more than a ride or two. bb-7's are nice in the winter, but i don't think i'll ever get used that annoying screech of wet rotors.

  29. #29
    is buachail foighneach me
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsteele
    You ever try to get back to the truck with a bent wheel? With disc brakes you at least still have brakes to use.
    i've never had a wheel that was bent so badly that i couldn't bend/whack/pry it back into good enough shape to clear the brake pads and ride out. i remember folding a d521 nearly in half on a trials bike, bending it back on a log by stomping on it, then some tweaking with a spoke wrench and it lasted till the braking surface wore through.

  30. #30
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    Yeah, you need to go waste tons of money on the really high end Discs if you want to open your mouth and speak the obvious on this forum. Discs are so much better that you should not even think about it, and since you have tried both and have formed your own opinion all by yourself, shame on you.

    Sarcasm. I agree 100% with the initial complaint on how overrated Discs are for riding. Not to mention the $$$ you have to drop not only on new brakes, but new wheels too to get something that is so overhyped it's laughable.
    ... And I Am You,
    And What I See Is Me!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by WTF-IDK
    BB7"s
    id rather be beat to death with my old SD7's than install another set of bb7's

  32. #32
    tcufrog02
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    Strange...

    Quote Originally Posted by tomsmoto
    id rather be beat to death with my old SD7's than install another set of bb7's
    I went from SD7s to BB7s and the BB7s are much better. To me, they are a step between v-brakes and hydraulic brakes.

  33. #33
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    just opening a can of worms :P i dont like them, lots of people do. whatever.

  34. #34
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    There was absolutely nothing wrong the power of rim brakes, they're lighter so that's why you won't see roadbikes going that route anytime soon. Discs require maintenance and cost way more than Vees if you want them light.

    But if you ride back east where there's wet and mud, you very quickly tire of eating through that expensive light wheelset and eating it on the trail cause you just lost your brakes on that puddle back there.

    Discs brought us brakes that still worked after a puddle and a bent rim. And for that I am grateful. Besides I spent WAY more time truing my rims when I ran rim brakes so that's an added maintenance hassle right there...

  35. #35
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    maintaining bikes is easy.. really, really easy. its funny seeing the maintenance issue being used for any argument.

    if you bend a rim out on the trail, discs or not, you're gonna be limping home anyway. its not like you can taco a rim with discs and go on doing 10 footers like nothing happened.

  36. #36
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    Rim brakes are great



    on road bikes.
    If I disagree with you, it's because you are wrong.

  37. #37
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    yo STACK, lay off the pipe man

  38. #38
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    I need some help converting my Knolly V-tach from discs to rim brakes.....

  39. #39
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    now that i think about it...

    why cant we just have the best of both worlds.

    use Vbrakes AND discs on the same wheel!!!!!!

  40. #40
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    Rim brakes and Discs are overrated. When I need to slow down I just stick my foot out. I took the brakes right off, saved a bunch of weight, and my feet never need adjustment or replacement.

  41. #41
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    There are plenty of things of the trail that can slow down and stop you - trees, shrubs, mud, animals, rocks, creeks, other cyclists, unseen obstacles, etc. You can cut off your legs and save a whole bunch of weight.

  42. #42
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    What has helped me with these types of threads is; if the person cannot spell the word "hydrolic" (sic) I do the opposite of their advice.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by victim
    What has helped me with these types of threads is; if the person cannot spell the word "hydrolic" (sic) I do the opposite of their advice.
    That's some sound advice
    At least he spelled "brakes" instead of "breaks" - I don't know if anything annoys me more on these forums
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  44. #44
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    I have ridden bikes with V-brakes, and yes they are better IF:

    1. You do not ride in dusty, dirty or muddy conditons
    2. You do not ride in wet conditions
    3. You do not ride down extended downhills (Vs fade more than discs)

    So for a bike that doesn't go offroad they are better, they are cheaper, offer more power, less maintenance and lighter weight. But for a mountain bike that actually sees dirt, mud, dust and water and extended downhills discs are far superior.
    2013 Santa Cruz TRc 650b
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    1987 Haro RS1

  45. #45
    himom!
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    I think both systems take about the same amount of time to maintain (if you use your bike, which you don't seem to be doing).

    When I used V-brakes I was always prying rocks out of the pads, re-aligning the pads (angle and toe-in <- such a freaking pain to get right!), cleaning the rim surfaces, and replacing cables and housing.

    Hydraulic brakes also take maintenance, but I actually do less day to day fiddling. I just tweak the rotors occasionally (takes 60 seconds) and sandpaper the pads (also 60 seconds). When the brakes start feeling mushy (1-2 times a year?), I spend 30 minutes bleeding them.

    YMMV, obviously.

  46. #46
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    With my hydraulics, I bleed once every 1-2 years, just to renew the fluid. I change pads, depending on my riding, about yearly or longer.

    That's about it.

  47. #47
    Never trust a fart
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    That's some sound advice
    At least he spelled "brakes" instead of "breaks" - I don't know if anything annoys me more on these forums

    Check out the signature.

  48. #48
    ~Disc~Golf~
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    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc
    Check out the signature.
    Yeah, I get a nice warm&fuzzy feeling whenever I see one of your posts - It's like everything is right in the world.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  49. #49
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    The guy at the bike shop says he is going to get rid of the friction.... But heres the thing, I already "got rid" of the friction in the front brake, and when i spin the wheels of my old bike next to the wheels on my new bike, the old bike with the rim brakes spins like 20% longer..WHY?? I ride through mud occasionally, but i try to avoid it when possible like most of you i imagine. And I always ride the black trails when i do go off road, but I dont see any advantage other than for the people selling them.

    I hope i'm totally wrong, and my disk brakes end up being a plus instead of a minus on my new bike that i really want to enjoy. BTW I ride about 30-80 miles a week from may to sept.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by STACK
    The guy at the bike shop says he is going to get rid of the friction.... But heres the thing, I already "got rid" of the friction in the front brake, and when i spin the wheels of my old bike next to the wheels on my new bike, the old bike with the rim brakes spins like 20% longer..WHY?? I ride through mud occasionally, but i try to avoid it when possible like most of you i imagine. And I always ride the black trails when i do go off road, but I dont see any advantage other than for the people selling them.

    I hope i'm totally wrong, and my disk brakes end up being a plus instead of a minus on my new bike that i really want to enjoy. BTW I ride about 30-80 miles a week from may to sept.
    You have a problem with your hubs then and not the brakes. If neither brake is engaged or rubbing how could they be the cause of a slower rolling wheel?

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