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  1. #1
    mtbr member
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    Reports of usless marta's ?

    Hi
    I want to buy a set of Marta sl's and I read that they are not good for long downhills or nose wheelie stops ? and that fade is a big problem.
    This this so or will i need to go for teh XTR instead

  2. #2
    Bodhisattva
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    What kind of riding do you do and how much do you weigh?
    What kind of long DH's are you talking about?

    Marta is an ultralightweight XC brake, as is the XTR. Neither will do a great job for clydesdales riding down 2000' descents and that is not their intended purpose.
    If you fall until either category then look at Louise FR. The weight differences between the bigger brakes made for more aggressive riding & Marta is minimal.

    Either brake is plenty strong enough to do a nose wheelie unless you weigh 250#. FWIW, I've ridden both and think Marta has more power & better modulation. I'm underwhelmed by the XTR discs.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  3. #3
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    Currently

    I am 80kg 176lbs i think , and am planningonloosing some of that.
    I do XC racing and all day trail riding.very light free riding. more you light to agressive trail riding.
    Dont do downhill racing but I enjoy pulling nose rides and some light trials.
    The brakes will be going on a Switchblade. that isset up with 4.5" front and rear.
    thanks

  4. #4
    Bodhisattva
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    I would not recommend the Marta or XTR for you. Racing, yes. All day trail riding, light FR & trials? No. It's not what they're designed to do.

    If you like Magura (I sure do) then take a look at Louise or, for more power, Louise FR. The minimal weight gain gets you more power & durability.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  5. #5
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    Currently

    I amusing V-Brakes with ceramic rims Avid5 , the power of the brakes are ample and the only reason why I am going disk is cause my Reba comes in a disk only.
    I would expect the disks to be alot more powerfull than my V-set up

  6. #6
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH_WP
    I amusing V-Brakes with ceramic rims Avid5 , the power of the brakes are ample and the only reason why I am going disk is cause my Reba comes in a disk only.
    I would expect the disks to be alot more powerfull than my V-set up
    Maybe so, maybe not. Good v-brakes, properly adjusted, with ceramic rims are quite powerful.

    The larger rotor sizes, say 180 mm & up, will be more powerful than your v's. The 160 rotor may not feel much different. But power is only part of the benefits of discs. Don't forget that discs aren't affected by moisture & mud and you don't have to worry about wearing through rim sidewalls or having your rims perfectly trued.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  7. #7
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    Ok

    Well thanks for the info... still not sure what to do.
    I have seen some 5.5's sold with XTR so maybe they might be abit more powerfull ..
    the reason i have chosen the Marta or the XTR is cause they the only ones I can get here at the moment.
    Maybe if I push I can get the Hays mag plus carbons ... but not sure about the performance of hayes

  8. #8
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH_WP
    Hi
    I want to buy a set of Marta sl's and I read that they are not good for long downhills or nose wheelie stops ? and that fade is a big problem.
    This this so or will i need to go for teh XTR instead
    You have to attempt to match brakes' abilities to the job at hand. You wouldn't expect a racing Mini Cooper's brakes to be good for offroad 4-wheel racing would you? Brakes' abilities are limited by the amount of generated heat that they can absorb and dissipate and by the amount of power they can apply (read: rotor diameter)

    Get it wrong and your brakes will boil (well hydraulics will) and fade. Get it right and you will have one finger braking all day long and a big smile.

    We probably touched on this in the FAQ at the top of this page.

    The brakes you mention are for XC racing. Brakes are generalized roughly as XC, FR and DH. What category does your riding fit? Almost no-one complains about buying too much brake.

    Mike T. (mcm # 717 & FOG)
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

  9. #9
    galferusa
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    change the pads, rotors and lines, not the calipers

    Quote Originally Posted by DH_WP
    Hi
    I want to buy a set of Marta sl's and I read that they are not good for long downhills or nose wheelie stops ? and that fade is a big problem.
    This this so or will i need to go for teh XTR instead
    Does anyone want to tell me the difference between the louise and louse freeride? Or how about the difference between the xtr, xt and saint calipers. the diffence is not the caliper at all but the DIAMETER of the rotor. Larger diameter rotors create more power. Here is another news flash, Every caliper company buys the absolute cheapest pads they can for their product and to sell on the replacement market. Go into a motorcycle shop and ask the parts guy which are better, the stock replacement pads form suzuki, or a pair of Galfer (or EBC or SBS or Ferodo) race pads. Not only will the aftermarket pads be much better performers, they will probably be cheaper too.
    Buy the martas. They are a good system. Then pull the stock pads and 160mm rotors and put them on e-bay. Buy a set of of Galfer high performance semi metallic pads and a 203mm wave rotor for the front and a 185mm wave for the rear to help dissapate heat and minimize fade. Power and fade issues solved.

  10. #10
    Bodhisattva
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    I'm no brake expert but have spent a lot of time using & working on Maguras and talking with Jimi, Jude & Co. at Magura.

    First...how do you propose to fit a 203 rotor into Marta? The caliper is configured for 160. I suppose you could mount the rear up front and use an adaptor if you're so inclined.
    Second, according to Magura, there are differences between Louise & Marta beside the size of the rotor. Of primary importance is that Louise has a bigger resevoir which allows the fluid to expand and thus prevent/delay fade. Power on Louise & Marta will be almost identical when the brakes are cool but Louise has a bigger pad surface area so more contact with the rotor.

    I don't know squat about Galfer pads, but Magura is quite insistent that only their pads be used. May be just marketing & money. I don't know.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  11. #11
    Do It Yourself
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    If you want bigger rotors, Louise is the way to go. Marta is nice and svelte but not meant for high powered operations. The Louise have a taller brake track and more solid lever feel. Louise are much lower in priced. They don't have the polished look of Marta but more industrial. Functionally, they have all the good features of the Martas with the one piece calipers, wavy rotors, mineral fluid, and backed by some of the best folks in the business (at least here in the N. America).

    Magura does license Gaffer wavy rotor technology for both Marta and Louise. They do only recommend using the Magura pads because they are the only ones that have been tested to work properly. I really don't think you would have a problem with aftermarket pads as long they were organic kevlar type and NOT the sintered metallic. The metallic pads can conduct too much heat and melt the seals and other bad stuff.
    Long Live Long Rides

  12. #12
    galferusa
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    magura setup

    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I'm no brake expert but have spent a lot of time using & working on Maguras and talking with Jimi, Jude & Co. at Magura.

    First...how do you propose to fit a 203 rotor into Marta? The caliper is configured for 160. I suppose you could mount the rear up front and use an adaptor if you're so inclined.
    Second, according to Magura, there are differences between Louise & Marta beside the size of the rotor. Of primary importance is that Louise has a bigger resevoir which allows the fluid to expand and thus prevent/delay fade. Power on Louise & Marta will be almost identical when the brakes are cool but Louise has a bigger pad surface area so more contact with the rotor.

    I don't know squat about Galfer pads, but Magura is quite insistent that only their pads be used. May be just marketing & money. I don't know.
    To answer your questions, an adapter (Gravity racing components make great one) will easily adapt your calipers out to 185mm and 203mm and shouldn't cost much.
    Both levers have resevoirs with expandable bladders (or a similar system) and usually these systems allow the same amount of expansion. One of Magura's levers might have slightly greater fluid capacity at the lever but that really doen't make that much of a difference in terms of a systems ability to dissapate heat. There is some experimentation in the motorcycle industry with resevoir extesion kits that can actually triple a remote resevoirs fluid capacity but the jury is still out on the validity of this becasue most of the heat is down at the caliper, not at the lever.
    I broke out the micrometer on the pads and actually measured the area of each pad in square millimeters.
    Here are my results:
    pre '01 louise and clara pad- 343 sq. mm
    marta pad- 356 sq mm
    clara pad- 352 sq mm
    julie pad- 423 sq mm
    Now from the smallest pad to the biggest in area the difference is only 18% and if you consider that most pads don't hit the swept area exactly flat like they should due to caliper missalignment (by the way, Magura makes an awesome tool for facing fork and frame brake tabs- I have one myself!), the difference in pad surface area is not that great.
    Going from a 160mm rotor to a 203 makes for a power increase of 75% (you might want to check my math on that as I am not sure of the proper formula for determining the difference in leverage ratios as they pertain to a radius.- either way, I know it is a lot greater than the 18% increase in pad area)
    I know one thing....most caliper companies DO NOT make their own pads. I actually don't know of one who does. Galfer has been an OEM supplier for most of the european bicycle caliper manufactures including magura at one time or another. By the way, we've also been an OEM supplier for Brembo automotive and moto divisions (amongst others) which means our pads have come stock on Ducati's, Porsche, Ferrari, etc.
    Of course they are insistant that you use their pads. They want to make a living just like the rest of us. Plus it helps with quality control to know that specific pads are being used with their rotors.
    Galfer USA

  13. #13
    Bodhisattva
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    Very interesting info. Thank you.

    I'd be curious to try Galfer semi-metallics on my Maguras and maybe will someday. I have a small stockpile of pads for my 180mm Louise FR for the time being.

    Care to send me a set to try out? I'd be happy to give them a shot & report back to the forum as to how they compare.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  14. #14
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by galferusa
    Buy a set of of Galfer high performance semi metallic pads .
    You're telling Magura brake users to use semi metallic pads? I don't know if we're splitting hairs on terminology here but this is from Magura USA and is on my Magura Cult pages -

    "Be aware of companies such as BBB, EBC, etc. using sinterized pad compounds for making pads for our brakes. This can cause overheating and ultimately total brake failure as the inner seals in the caliper will be damaged by the heat. So we strongly recommend using only our organic pads for our brakes. Also, using any other pad or any other part with our brakes will void the warranty. NO sinterized pads!! "

    Mike T. (mcm # 717)
    Mike The Bike's home wheelbuilding info - dedicated to providing Newby wheelbuilder information and motivation.

  15. #15
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    ok..... my 2 cents

    Use the Louise FR brakes instead of Marthas... I have my reasons, but cannot and will not explain, as Magura is a competitor ...

    Galfer USA statement 1 : about brakemanufacturers are using the cheapest pads. I can not tell about anybody else, Formula uses the best available metal sintered pads in all their brakes from the factory on, they are "built" to Formulas specification from one of the major names in the brake pad trade.

    GalferUSA statement 2 : to use semi metalic for Magura brakes... THIS will get Magura brakes in real trouble, as the mineral oil will most certainly boil and the brakes will fade horrendesly. Thats the reason all over Magura's website, it is strongly advised to only use Magura pads, versus anything else. Semi Metalic pads are carrying the much higher heat they create into the caliper.

    Galfer USA Statement No 3: more fluid doesnt do anything on the temperature. That is incorrect, more fluid especially in the right place, will create lower temps.

    lol. Dont worry Andy ... most of what you wrote is quite correct. Just a few pointers..lol

    Brakemeister

  16. #16
    galferusa
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    Galfer semi metallic pads

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T.
    You're telling Magura brake users to use semi metallic pads? I don't know if we're splitting hairs on terminology here but this is from Magura USA and is on my Magura Cult pages -

    "Be aware of companies such as BBB, EBC, etc. using sinterized pad compounds for making pads for our brakes. This can cause overheating and ultimately total brake failure as the inner seals in the caliper will be damaged by the heat. So we strongly recommend using only our organic pads for our brakes. Also, using any other pad or any other part with our brakes will void the warranty. NO sinterized pads!! "

    Mike T. (mcm # 717)
    Sintered pads are generally full metallic pads and do run on the hot side. I think Magura is more worried about the rider who rides hard but doesn't maintain his brakes by periodically bleeding them and replacing the seals. I can't imagine this would be an issue for the rider who properly maintains their stuff. Semi metallics are not sintered and shouldn't be an issue at all. Galfer's sintered metallic motorcycle pads (HH) use a large amount of ceramics in the pad compound which allows them to run much cooler than most full metallics. We also recently introduced a new ceramic coating on the backing plate to further insulate the pad from the caliper. As the motorcycle technology goes, so our bicycle pads will also benefit.

  17. #17
    galferusa
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    Here is my 2 cents thorsten-

    Quote Originally Posted by Brakemeister
    ok..... my 2 cents

    Use the Louise FR brakes instead of Marthas... I have my reasons, but cannot and will not explain, as Magura is a competitor ...

    Galfer USA statement 1 : about brakemanufacturers are using the cheapest pads. I can not tell about anybody else, Formula uses the best available metal sintered pads in all their brakes from the factory on, they are "built" to Formulas specification from one of the major names in the brake pad trade.

    GalferUSA statement 2 : to use semi metalic for Magura brakes... THIS will get Magura brakes in real trouble, as the mineral oil will most certainly boil and the brakes will fade horrendesly. Thats the reason all over Magura's website, it is strongly advised to only use Magura pads, versus anything else. Semi Metalic pads are carrying the much higher heat they create into the caliper.

    Galfer USA Statement No 3: more fluid doesnt do anything on the temperature. That is incorrect, more fluid especially in the right place, will create lower temps.

    lol. Dont worry Andy ... most of what you wrote is quite correct. Just a few pointers..lol

    Brakemeister
    Statement 1- last pair of formula's I took apart had a pair of semi metallic pads stock. They were not sintered. Could you e-mail me a close up view of the pads you are using. I apologize for lumping Formula in with the others. My Bad. I do believe formula uses more motorcycle technology in their design than any other company and this is a good thing.

    Statement 2- I am not a fan of bicycle companies using mineral oil as the basis for their brake fluid. Mineral oil does not hold a candle to DOT 4 race fluid in terms heat capabilities. Unforrtunatley, because these manufactures uses seals designed to work with specific fluid, the consumer is stuck. DOT fluid does have its disadvantages, it is nasty to paint and skin and doesn't keep. I do know Galfer pads tend to run cooler than other semimetallics. Also- Sintered and semi metallics are two different things. And we've made pads for formula and magura and we only make semi metallic bicycle pads so can you explain that one?

    Statement 3- like I said, the jury is still out on the remote resevoir extensions. We've been toying with mounting remote resevoirs at the caliper. But that brings up some other issues......

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