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Thread: overkill???

  1. #1
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    overkill???

    are the hope m4's overkill for cross country ?

    I know they cost more but will I be happy with them or will I get thrown off my bike every time I feather the brakes?

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    If you have the money then there is no such thing as overkill. XTR race, BFO, ect will all work great and are light, just not on the wallet.

    Mark
    2012 XXL Carve Expert

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    Im upgrading from elixir 3's
    I am considerint xt's or the hope m4's or x2's
    It seems like the xt's would be the smart option, but theres somthing about having 4 piston that I dont know if I can resist

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    I went from the M446's (lowest grade Shimano hydro) to the XT's and I am very happy. I was on my son's RH comp today with the elixir 1's and its a no contest. If you are looking for 4 pistons look at the Zee or Saint. Both are 4 piston, you were asking about a XC brake and these are DH brakes. I am close to 300lbs and my XT's on 180/160 RT86's stop me on a dime. Nevertheless, buy what you can afford. BFO's look very trick with clear lines and the ability to color you brake oil, very cool but with rotors you are near $1K for the setup, that is more then I paid for my son's 2012 RH comp.

    Mark
    2012 XXL Carve Expert

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    are they overkill? probably, but they work great and have awesome build quality. ive had my X2s for about 2 months now and love em. the X2s are really strong, although i ride in Texas where there arent any sustained downhills. if I lived somewhere with long sustained downs, I would have gone for at least one M4.

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    There's no such thing as overkill, at least I haven't found it yet. I'm running Saints on a hardtail XC bike and I have no problems keeping the bike rubber side down even though I only weigh 150 lbs. The stopping power is incredible yet very easy to control, I can feather the brakes while riding on snow & ice without having a wheel lock up or slide out.

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    Not overkill at all. I ride primarily in central NC -- tight, twisty, short ups/downs -- and never find my tech m4's to be overkill. My brother rides the x2 and x2 evo, and gets by fine in the same area. For power, the x2 evo seems to be on par with my old tech m4s -- the m4's have better modulation.

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    Thanks for all the replies

    Well I was considering a m4 and an x2, one in the front and one in the rear

    or

    saint in the front and an xt in the rear

    I am one of those people that use their rear brake more than they should(I do not lock out and drag though)

    Its correct to have a stronger brake up front right?

  9. #9
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    You'll be very, very pleased with an M4/X2 combo for XC riding. I think it would be the superb brake setup. You will have amazing braking power and control with that setup.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Let me throw another option at you. The Shimano SLX brakes are BOMB DIGGITY and quite a bit cheaper than some of the other options you have listed. I have Avid Elixir 3s on one bike and shimano SLX on another and the SLX brakes are WAY stronger and very seldom make a noise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    You'll be very, very pleased with an M4/X2 combo for XC riding. I think it would be the superb brake setup. You will have amazing braking power and control with that setup.
    Woud you reccomed the m4 in front and the x2 in rear respectively?

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    Quote Originally Posted by goatman2304 View Post
    Let me throw another option at you. The Shimano SLX brakes are BOMB DIGGITY and quite a bit cheaper than some of the other options you have listed. I have Avid Elixir 3s on one bike and shimano SLX on another and the SLX brakes are WAY stronger and very seldom make a noise.
    I found xt's for sale
    Xt's are better than slx's right?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post
    Woud you reccomed the m4 in front and the x2 in rear respectively?
    Yes. You want more power in the front . . . just like your car.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Yes. You want more power in the front . . . just like your car.
    These are on sale for 120
    Shimano XT M785 Disc Brake | Shimano | Brand | www.PricePoint.com

    do you know the diffrence between the tech and "non-tech" evo brakes?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post
    do you know the diffrence between the tech and "non-tech" evo brakes?
    You mean for Hope's? I don't think that there are "non-tech" brakes. Basically, all the levers are the same except for the Race levers.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    You mean for Hope's? I don't think that there are "non-tech" brakes. Basically, all the levers are the same except for the Race levers.
    I see ok
    So what are the difference then?
    the tech has more adjustable features on lever positiong?

  17. #17
    007
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    The Tech levers have a greater degree of fine-tuning, and IMO, have a better lever feel. The trade off is that they are heavier than the race version. Unless you care about weight, there is no need to get the Race levers.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    The Tech levers have a greater degree of fine-tuning, and IMO, have a better lever feel. The trade off is that they are heavier than the race version. Unless you care about weight, there is no need to get the Race levers.
    +1
    I have my reservations about BFO brakes due to the closed loop system, not a proven thing as of yet, but servicing is the main issue along with durability and the lack of tuning. For 1k for brakes, it needs to do all of those.

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    I ran the old X2 they were great however lacked the power for the steeps. I was using two fingers for braking down the steep stuff, now I running the m4s on my trail bike and they got plenty of power. Im about 200lbs however. What is your weight? X2 Evos should suit you fine for your xc rig.

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    I actully sprung and got 2 m4's front and rear with a set of hope 183 mm rotors. I put them on today and honestly not too impressed yet.

    They do need to be burnt in still, and I wont be able to ride today cuz the storm.

    I do have a ton of confidence though I am sure theyll be amazing once broken in a little.

    Oh and for the record im about 5'10'' and my weight flucatates.

    When I started riding this season I was 215 now im about 208 and Ill prolly weigh around 190 in septmeber.

    I ride a 29er and I ride pretty f-ing hard

    I used to ride a 26 and ive also been wanting new brakes cuz the 29er carries more speed and I need the extra power

  21. #21
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    You won't be disappointed . . . HOWEVER . . . I wasnt impressed with the stock organic pads. I was very happy with Brake Authority pads, but can't seem to find them now. I have a set of EBC Red's waiting to install next.

    Hope's do need to be bedded in properly. Read the directions on their site about it . . . . something about getting them hot, then squirting them with water, repeat.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    You won't be disappointed . . . HOWEVER . . . I wasnt impressed with the stock organic pads. I was very happy with Brake Authority pads, but can't seem to find them now. I have a set of EBC Red's waiting to install next.
    Have you tried Shimano's M03 pads for their old M755 disc brakes? It's the same pad as the Hope M4, and out of all the pads I used in the M755 it was probably the best one. Probably, since I only had the BA Burly pads in them for a short time before my recent brake upgrade, I never got a chance to work them all that hard and I'm not entirely sure if they were completely broken in. The BA and Shimano pad seemed to be pretty close, both were significantly more powerful than the Koolstop, EBC green, Jagwire, and various other pads that I had the brakes over the years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    You won't be disappointed . . . HOWEVER . . . I wasnt impressed with the stock organic pads. I was very happy with Brake Authority pads, but can't seem to find them now. I have a set of EBC Red's waiting to install next.

    Hope's do need to be bedded in properly. Read the directions on their site about it . . . . something about getting them hot, then squirting them with water, repeat.
    WHAT???
    youre telling me that this "hope's bedding process" is different than alll other brakes on the market?
    whats up with that?

    Well and actually I did squeeze a ride in and Im super duper impressed and apparently there not even bedded it in right.

    Its hard to compare because I had elixir threes and they needed to be bled so this is a humoungous upgrade for me.

    The front brake works amazing.

    Also the modulation is great

    didnt hit any down hills to heat up the rotors too much, but I did not notice any fade on my ride.

    haha It started raining during my ride today and I "hope" that counts as getting the rotor wet for this bedding procedure lol

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    also whats the point of organic pads if everyone hates them and switches them out anyway(with every brake ever...)?

    I am excited to see what these babies can do at 100% and even maybe with different pads and also to see how hard I can flick my bike with these

    Ill take a picture tommorow of my setup cuz it looks sick!

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    I just went throught the manual and did not find any thing about water on the rotor.
    it said to follow the hard stops procedure, if you know where a video about it is please link it

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    Have you tried Shimano's M03 pads for their old M755 disc brakes? It's the same pad as the Hope M4, and out of all the pads I used in the M755 it was probably the best one. Probably, since I only had the BA Burly pads in them for a short time before my recent brake upgrade, I never got a chance to work them all that hard and I'm not entirely sure if they were completely broken in. The BA and Shimano pad seemed to be pretty close, both were significantly more powerful than the Koolstop, EBC green, Jagwire, and various other pads that I had the brakes over the years.
    yea they look the same

    are the shimano pads better than the equivelent hope brand pad for this brake?

  27. #27
    007
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    Here's a thread I started on this very topic a couple years ago: Bedding in Hopes?

    Edit: Skip the mud part unless you can find some very, very fine grained dirt. I did it with just the water part. In hindsight, however, I really think its just the pad compound. I did not have the same problems with the Brake Authority's or now with EBC Reds/Greens.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Bleeding hopes are easy. Just a procedure involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Here's a thread I started on this very topic a couple years ago: Bedding in Hopes?

    Edit: Skip the mud part unless you can find some very, very fine grained dirt. I did it with just the water part. In hindsight, however, I really think its just the pad compound. I did not have the same problems with the Brake Authority's or now with EBC Reds/Greens.
    Nice! thanks for that gem of a thread.

    My first thought would be to use polsihing/rubbing compound from the auto section.

    Safe for the pads? not sure

    what do you think?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post
    Nice! thanks for that gem of a thread.

    My first thought would be to use polsihing/rubbing compound from the auto section.

    Safe for the pads? not sure

    what do you think?

    Definitely NOT. The ONLY thing I will willing let touch my rotors/pads are a) water and b) rubbing alcohol. You can similarly try rubbing the rotors with a fine grit sand paper perpendicular to the brake track. Just be careful to not bend the rotors.

    One key think I have found is that you DO need to get them hot enough to really bed in. You can do this easily on a big hill, or by pedaling with the brakes applied so that its pretty hard to pedal. Both will heat the brakes up good, its just a matter of effort.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Definitely NOT. The ONLY thing I will willing let touch my rotors/pads are a) water and b) rubbing alcohol. You can similarly try rubbing the rotors with a fine grit sand paper perpendicular to the brake track. Just be careful to not bend the rotors.

    One key think I have found is that you DO need to get them hot enough to really bed in. You can do this easily on a big hill, or by pedaling with the brakes applied so that its pretty hard to pedal. Both will heat the brakes up good, its just a matter of effort.
    so bedding brakes is almost more of how hot you can get them.

    We should call the process burning brakes instead of bedding

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    As an update:

    These breaks have been stellar so far but I do feel like they have not reached their max poetential.

    It is absolutley an incredible feeling flying downhill around tight corners knowing that the brakes will stop almost instantly.


    I do want to take out the pads and take sandpaper though
    What is the prefered method?
    Vertical sanding?
    then brake cleen after?
    Should I do this to the rotor as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Definitely NOT. The ONLY thing I will willing let touch my rotors/pads are a) water and b) rubbing alcohol. You can similarly try rubbing the rotors with a fine grit sand paper perpendicular to the brake track. Just be careful to not bend the rotors.

    One key think I have found is that you DO need to get them hot enough to really bed in. You can do this easily on a big hill, or by pedaling with the brakes applied so that its pretty hard to pedal. Both will heat the brakes up good, its just a matter of effort.
    Man I tried to get these hot!!!!

    I put the bike in the stand, cranked, slammed and repeated about 10 times
    put my hand to the rotor and nothing... cold as ice
    f bedding is going to hard
    this is probably why the fine grit sand and water (mud mixture is needed)

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by toot334455 View Post
    As an update:

    These breaks have been stellar so far but I do feel like they have not reached their max poetential.

    It is absolutley an incredible feeling flying downhill around tight corners knowing that the brakes will stop almost instantly.


    I do want to take out the pads and take sandpaper though
    What is the prefered method?
    Vertical sanding?
    then brake cleen after?
    Should I do this to the rotor as well?
    I would not sand the pads . . . only do that if you get something on them or swap rotors. As for heating them up . . . two things: 1) don't use your fingers as a test! They can/will get hot enough to cause pretty severe burns. 2) spinning in the bike stand isn't gong to do it. You need to either find a long hill (maybe a parking garage if no hills in your area) or ride on the street with the brakes applied.

    Edit: Also, you don't want to come to a complete stop during the bedding in process. You want to come to a near complete stop then release the pads. There's a lot of threads all over the internet for bedding in brakes. It's the same concept as it is for cars as it is for bikes.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    So after a few weeks I still dont feel like these are up to 100% power
    I also got rained on the other week and im not sure if that had anything to do with it.

    My check list:
    Realign caliper
    Brake cleaner to the rotor
    Brake cleaner to the pad
    IF not better Sandpaper to the pad OR rotor?

    Then the last thing would be to bleed them?

    How hard is it to get H2o in the brake line ?

    Thanks

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    I have just upgraded from the old x2 to m4 evos. I have been running them now for about 2 months. They dont feel quite broke in however they are way more powerful than my x2s. I was ridding with my a couple of friends over the weekend and couldnt believe how quite my brakes were compared to my friends avids. At least they kept the bears away! Toot334455 give them another couple of long rides. If that doesnt help swap out the pads for sintered, however they will be more noisy and grabby then the organics and take longer to break in. Make sure you bleed them after swapping pads. I am going to stick with the organic pads, I love the feel of them.

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    By the way, I forgot to mention I originally was running 183mm front & rear rotors for my m4s. The 183 in the back seemed a bit too much so I swapped it out for a 160mm. Way better control now for the rear. Im about 200lbs.

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    Any of the stock or EBC pads are great, but you can run the x2 in the rear and m2 up front. It's a great combo. I may run that when I get my replacement frame soon. I'm 225 and 240 fully packed. x2 with a 180 rear works perfect, but I am running v4 f-r on my HD and v2-x2 on my SLR.

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    I've got 183 mm front and rear.
    The brakes are m4's and im 208 lbs.

    I havent had that feeling like the brakes are too grabby yet.
    so thats why I think there not at full poetential

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