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  1. #1
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    The "nope no turkey howl here" thread

    Maybe this should be a poll
    There are plenty of threads in "Brake Time" on the Juicy Turkey Howl and that's good.
    Embedded deep in those threads are a few lone voices saying "but I have no problem"

    I thought I'd start one for folks that have no annoying noises from their juicys.
    I'm one, my wife's the other.

    Post away.






    .

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  2. #2
    Canuckistan
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    Do I count for 3? all 3 of my bikes have Avid Juicy 5's and none of them howl,moan,scream or make any noise

  3. #3
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    it seems like all the people who know what they're doing have quiet juicys... just an observation.

  4. #4
    Canuckistan
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    as blunt as that came across....I hate to say it...but I kinda agree...now let the flame-fest begin!

  5. #5
    I Love my Rize
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    None here........ Love my J7's, never made a peep and are perfect.
    Early to bed early to RIZE makes a man healthy, wealthy <(scratch that) and wize.

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  6. #6
    Calm Like a Bomb
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    none here for 3 sets of j5s, 3 sets j7s, 1 set of codes
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  7. #7
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    wow this thread is taking off...even if you are right that people "who know what they are doing" are not having this problem does not speak well for the product. Who wants a brake that you need to be a mechanic to use...could you image having to buy a car that you are an expert in fixing in order for it to work...Common sense shows these brakes sucks...PM for 150.00 for juicy 7's with 8 inch rotos...pick up on the front range...great deal for experts.....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenR
    could you image having to buy a car that you are an expert in fixing in order for it to work...Common sense shows these brakes sucks...PM for 150.00 for juicy 7's with 8 inch rotos...pick up on the front range...great deal for experts.....
    How many people work on their own vehicles?? If every one was a mechanic then there would be no need for a service department or repair shop. Just for SNG what do you do for a living??
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    How many people work on their own vehicles?? If every one was a mechanic then there would be no need for a service department or repair shop. Just for SNG what do you do for a living??
    that is the point, if you need to be a mechanic in order for these brakes to work...they suck...thanks for making the point for me...cheers

  10. #10
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    I have never touched my brakes. I bought the bikes from bike shops that had expert mechanics, like bike shops are supposed to.

    I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

  11. #11
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    The problem is that there are many different noises caused by several different things. The other thread is for the warble which is a different noise than a howl.

    I've heard 4 different noises so far from my Avids.

    1. Warble (from what I've deduced is caused by misalignment)
    2. Screech (happens when bedding large pads like Codes)
    3. Howl (sorta like wine-glass friction)
    4. Squeak (dunno...it's random)

    The misalignment on my warble is caused by frame flex. It's fine until moderate braking. When my frame begins to flex...then the caliper starts to twist with my stays causing the pad to dig into the vents. (I've watched it) Still waiting on a warranty frame to verify...but I'm pretty confident.

    A. I wonder how many people are calling any old noise the "warble".
    B. I wonder how many people with the actual warble noise are bigger dudes like me with weak stays. These "Big Boy Warblers" may just need a frame with vertical support struts or beefier stays.
    C. I wonder if we could record the noises and share them. It's the only way to actually separate the actual symptoms into appropriate categories to come up with definite fixes.

  12. #12
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    All my juicy's but one work just fine. I bent the rotor on one and now there's a slight gobble.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenR
    that is the point, if you need to be a mechanic in order for these brakes to work...they suck...thanks for making the point for me...cheers
    So I'll take it that you dont do anything because it may concern maintenance, Ekkerz your on a computer oh Wait you can afford to just replace rather than repair, got it.
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  14. #14
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    The only time my stock J7s would make noise is when they got dirty or hot. Since changing to organic pads, they're as silent as one could want. Would I buy Avids again? You bet!

  15. #15
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    This is the thread for those of us that don't have any of the problems you are describing, so you might want to try a different thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    The problem is that there are many different noises caused by several different things. The other thread is for the warble which is a different noise than a howl.

    I've heard 4 different noises so far from my Avids.

    1. Warble (from what I've deduced is caused by misalignment)
    2. Screech (happens when bedding large pads like Codes)
    3. Howl (sorta like wine-glass friction)
    4. Squeak (dunno...it's random)

    The misalignment on my warble is caused by frame flex. It's fine until moderate braking. When my frame begins to flex...then the caliper starts to twist with my stays causing the pad to dig into the vents. (I've watched it) Still waiting on a warranty frame to verify...but I'm pretty confident.

    A. I wonder how many people are calling any old noise the "warble".
    B. I wonder how many people with the actual warble noise are bigger dudes like me with weak stays. These "Big Boy Warblers" may just need a frame with vertical support struts or beefier stays.
    C. I wonder if we could record the noises and share them. It's the only way to actually separate the actual symptoms into appropriate categories to come up with definite fixes.

    I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

  16. #16
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    J5 and J7's on two different bikes....both don't howl, screech, or gobble. Although, I do hear a slight "shing" every now and again. I'm no bike mechanic...I just read a tutorial on proper bed-in and they worked fine from day one.

  17. #17
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    I've got 2 sets of J5's that are dead quiet, but then again, although i'm not a bike mechanic, I'm a genius, a prophet, and the future leader of the united world government.
    I like cheap stuff that works great and is very sturdy.

  18. #18
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    No problems here...

    I have or have had, two sets of BB7s and one set of J7s. My first set of BBs howled like a dog in pain when brand new. Once the pads bedded in though they went silent. The only time I ever hear anything out of my brakes is when they are hot or wet. More so when wet than anything else.

    But those instances aren't a "problem" with the brakes. I haven't found a mtb disc brake that wouldn't make noise under the right conditions.

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    I have never touched my brakes.
    My friend, you must share with us your expert descending technique; You only get the howl when you use them, so you don't count. In your case, save the weight and take them off!

    Mine used to howl, but not anymore... eBayed them off months ago.
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  20. #20
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    No noise from mine, unless I glaze the pads, but that's my issue.

  21. #21
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    I have Juicy Ultimates on my Moots with ZERO odd sounds and they stop like a champ. I think if you set them us as per the instructions, following them exactly, you won't have any problems. I ride with 5 other guys that have various levels of Juicys with no sound problems. As we say in our house; RTFM (read the F**K'n manual).

  22. #22
    beautiful noise...
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    in between?

    So, I've had some noises but most of the time there are none. That places me in between I suppose. I equate this in part to the fact that I'm 195lbs and running a QR fork with worn bushings on the brake side and environmental factors such as moisture, mud, dust, etc... I live in the Pacific NW and ride year round and I have never heard of a single brake system that didn't make at least some noise on occasion due to the above mentioned criteria. I will agree though that a large percentage of issues experienced by folks on these boards in regards to Avid brakes seems to be set-up related.

    I'm currently running J7s but previously had BB7s on the same frame. The BB7s had the "gobble" bad in the back. No amount of set-up helped. I was able to eliminate it by having my disc mount tabs faced. I've had very few issues with the J7s now on the same frame. Most of the noises I've heard have come from the front and since I already know my bushings are worn (I get a "shudder" on the left leg) I expect that my next overhaul (and swap to 20mm thru-axle lowers) will cure it. There. That's my pointless contribution for the day

  23. #23
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    Iíve ridden 25+ bikes with Juicy brakes, after a year of effort I managed to get mine to work for a week in a satisfactory way on a different bike with non Avid washers and Iíve tried one 29er with Juicy Ultimateís working fine, I know thatís not good but those are the only 2 times Iíve ever tried and they have been working as well as I would expect from any other brake.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogonfr
    So I'll take it that you dont do anything because it may concern maintenance, Ekkerz your on a computer oh Wait you can afford to just replace rather than repair, got it.
    You are correct, if my computer broke I can afford to fix it or replace it...however I am not a computer repairman and this thing has actually worked fine the last 4 years. I know crazy to expect a product to work with just regular maintenance....

  25. #25
    I Love my Rize
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    A true expert

    Dogonfr.....Please don't argue with Big Ben as he is a "seasoned expert on bikes"

    From
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by danoalb
    Dogonfr.....Please don't argue with Big Ben as he is a "seasoned expert on bikes"

    From
    (City, State or Country):
    NY
    Year started riding:
    2007
    Favorite type of riding
    (can choose more than:
    All Mountain
    Favorite Trail:
    Colorado
    Bike Setup:
    2007 Gary Fisher HIFI
    That is the point dumbass, you should not need to be an expert for the breaks to work. However these bikes are simple to work on no doubt and 2 full seasons riding here in CO is more than enough time to learn how to fix them, just some of us would rather ride that waste time fixing a crap product that needs more than regular care to just function at a basic level...We all grew up building BMX bikes and the such so I would figure anyone can fix these bikes...Commonsense, is where I think I lose you guys at, is that a new product should not need to be tweaked to work at a basic level. If anything tweaking should aid in performance, not make them just acceptable...
    Last edited by BenR; 09-27-2008 at 06:59 PM.

  27. #27
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    Too funny

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR
    That is the point dumbass, you should not need to be an expert for the breaks to work. You are the definition of a total ****ing idiot...Cheers....

    Maybe if you could spell you might understand the directions better.
    Early to bed early to RIZE makes a man healthy, wealthy <(scratch that) and wize.

    RIGHTY on a LEFTY

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by danoalb
    Maybe if you could spell you might understand the directions better.

    thanks.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by danoalb
    Dogonfr.....Please don't argue with Big Ben as he is a "seasoned expert on bikes"
    No need to worry this is the net where one can be as tough and perfect as one wishes. Everyone needs a tech you cant know it all thats life.
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  30. #30
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    My juicy's work great too!! Because they are sitting on the fing bench. I don't think skill has anything to do with it because alot of good shops and mechanics have tried to fix the problem without success. I think each person gets lucky and nails it for their particular situation. For all you guys that have fixed the problem, that's great but I would refrain form hammering on anyone that hasn't been able to be so fortunate as yourself.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick59349
    My juicy's work great too!! Because they are sitting on the fing bench. I don't think skill has anything to do with it because alot of good shops and mechanics have tried to fix the problem without success. I think each person gets lucky and nails it for their particular situation. For all you guys that have fixed the problem, that's great but I would refrain form hammering on anyone that hasn't been able to be so fortunate as yourself.

    Everything mass produced is going to have flaws the Turkey thread has gotten out of control which is possibly why this thread was started by dusthuffer from frustration of seeing that post keep coming up.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick59349
    My juicy's work great too!! Because they are sitting on the fing bench. I don't think skill has anything to do with it because alot of good shops and mechanics have tried to fix the problem without success. I think each person gets lucky and nails it for their particular situation. For all you guys that have fixed the problem, that's great but I would refrain form hammering on anyone that hasn't been able to be so fortunate as yourself.
    Not to shut you down, but this is the thread for folks who do not and maybe have never had juicy noise problems. You know, if I wasn't such a nice guy I'd write: If you can't even figure out you're in the wrong thread, what chance do you have of ever installing your brakes right?

    I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    Not to shut you down, but this is the thread for folks who do not and maybe have never had juicy noise problems. You know, if I wasn't such a nice guy I'd write: If you can't even figure out you're in the wrong thread, what chance do you have of ever installing your brakes right?
    I guess I'll just move on then.
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  34. #34
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    just breaking in my J5s. no howling or gobbling so far thank goodness, just the 'shing' sound after hard cornering, presumably a bit of rubbing between pad and rotor as the clearance is so small.

  35. #35
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    dusthuffer

    Yet this thread is more worthless than the Warble thread.

    The purpose for this thread should be to find those with properly working Juicy's and find out what's different.

    Rider Weight
    Riding Style
    Frame Design
    Fork

    Nothing's listed.

    Instead, this thread is a lookie how many people aren't having issues. Whoopee!

  36. #36
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    I've had 4 sets of J7s, everything from the first 04 models up to the 07 models. I've had a set of J5s. And I've had a set of J-Ultimates. No problems with any of those. No problems with the Juicies I've set up for my buddies either.

    I've had them on my Kona Coiler. I've had them on my Specialized Bighit. I've had them on my Addict Cycles DJ. I've had them on a BlkMrkt Mob.
    I weigh 160. The brakes have been set up on Marzocchi DJ2, Rockshox Pike, Marzocchi 66. Most have been set up with stock pads and Hayes v-cut or round rotors.

    One buddy is 250. It's on his Ironhorse Porter with a 203mm Avid Polygon rotor. He's got J-Ultimates on his Kona Dawg.

    One buddy is 170. It's on his Kona Coiler with a QR Marzocchi Drop-off. It's been setup with both the Polygon rotors (185/160) and the Cleansweep rotors (203).

    Another buddy is about 180. It's on his Giant AC with 20mm TA Manitou Sherman. It's been set up with 203mm Hayes Round rotors and Cleansweep G2 rotors. No problems with either.

    Another friend is 130 or so. He rides his hardtail everywhere. it was set up with Juicy 7s on a Haro Escape, then a DMR, then a Soul Cycles Roscoe. It went from 185mm Polygon rotors to 203mm Hayes V-cut rotors. No problems with either.

    I have a friend with J7s on his Stumpjumper with Fox fork and CS G2 rotors. He weighs 180 and rides XC.

    I ride with these guys on a regular basis and do all of their maintenance. I've set up PLENTY of customers with Avid brakes. I've had one come back with a leaky piston. But none have had noise complaints. One customer has complained of noise on J7s that he purchased from another shop, but he never brought them in for me to take a look at them.

    Yes, there are some components that do not play well together, and it allows resonating. But the majority of issues seem to stem from improper setup, break-in, or pad wear. Some people have had issues with the Polygon rotors. I have addressed and fix the issue, but sometimes it does require the rotor to be replaced. Some people replace rotors, but do not replace the pads after the pads have already worn unevenly.

    Other brakes WILL make noise and gobble if they are not set up properly (or if the component combination allows the resonating to propagate). You see many people with complaints about Juicies because of the sheer volume of them out there. The Juicies also tend to be a little finicky and can be more difficult to allign properly because of the CPS washers, especially if the washers are pitted.
    Last edited by XSL_WiLL; 09-27-2008 at 09:56 PM.

  37. #37
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    I disagree. Some good might come of it, right? Like what if somebody reading this was planning on buying a bike with Juicy's maybe this would be interesting to them.

    For what it's worth, I think you're looking at the wrong causes, entirely. I'm not criticizing, I'm just saying you're not even close.

    It's a lot more likely there maybe was a bad run of juicy's from factory, so if people posted their serial numbers maybe the bad run could be detected, but serial numbers are probably really hard to find, they might have been on the original box, but not on OEM bikes.



    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    dusthuffer

    Yet this thread is more worthless than the Warble thread.

    The purpose for this thread should be to find those with properly working Juicy's and find out what's different.

    Rider Weight
    Riding Style
    Frame Design
    Fork

    Nothing's listed.

    Instead, this thread is a lookie how many people aren't having issues. Whoopee!

    I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

  38. #38
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    ugh, here come the whiners.
    I like cheap stuff that works great and is very sturdy.

  39. #39
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    The thing that I have found that will cause the most howl on a brake (and that is any brake, disc, rim, or otherwise) is contamination of the braking surface. If a shop set them up and wasn't careful or the owner set them up and wasn't careful, and just the tiniest bit of brake fluid or greasy fingers got on the rotors, they'll squeal like a pig. And, if the pads are "organic" they'll be more likely to absorb some of the contaminant and the sound will never go away.

    After I installed my Juicys and before I ever installed the wheel, I cleaned the rotors with some White Lightning Clean Streak and no problems. I am telling you, if you are sloppy with any lubricants at all, you'll have problems.

  40. #40
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    um-hm, my V brakes scream like slaughtered pigs any time it rains. fortunately it rains only maybe 5 days in a year here.

  41. #41
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    J7's. No noise on the front. Eventually developed a howl and vibration in the back. Replaced the rear CS G2 rotor with a Galfer and have enjoyed the silence ever since.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    I disagree. Some good might come of it, right? Like what if somebody reading this was planning on buying a bike with Juicy's maybe this would be interesting to them.

    For what it's worth, I think you're looking at the wrong causes, entirely. I'm not criticizing, I'm just saying you're not even close.

    It's a lot more likely there maybe was a bad run of juicy's from factory, so if people posted their serial numbers maybe the bad run could be detected, but serial numbers are probably really hard to find, they might have been on the original box, but not on OEM bikes.
    I just find it rather odd that my J5's worked GR8 for 2yrs on my XLT. Then...all the sudden I switched to a 2004 Jamis Komodo Hardtail and they warble. Switched to brand new brakes...and they also warble on this bike. When I looked down at the stays and gripped my rear brake and rocked it forward...the caliper-side stays flexed forward and inward. The caliper flexed forward and inward. The warble and shudder doesn't happen until moderate/hard braking ie...when stuff starts to flex outta whack.

    Would make sense that a 160lb rider on something like a Kona Coiler wouldn't have issues and a 195lb rider on a fairly standard HT could. I really think that alot of it is due to frame design.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    I disagree. Some good might come of it, right? Like what if somebody reading this was planning on buying a bike with Juicy's maybe this would be interesting to them.

    For what it's worth, I think you're looking at the wrong causes, entirely. I'm not criticizing, I'm just saying you're not even close.

    It's a lot more likely there maybe was a bad run of juicy's from factory, so if people posted their serial numbers maybe the bad run could be detected, but serial numbers are probably really hard to find, they might have been on the original box, but not on OEM bikes.
    I would be interested in hearing your opinion on the "right causes". I had my Juicy's since 2005. I monkey'd with them alot. The first bike I had them on had tiny aluminum stays with no vertical support strut. They warbled.

    Then I switched them over to an XLT that had quite a bit of support in the stays area. No warble.

    And now...well, you know.


    It seems that I've been accused so many times of being an idiot and not knowing how to set them up properly. I was able to do it for 2 solid years just fine. Why would it be different on this frame?

    It's unlikely that it's the brake's fault b/c I had Avid send me new ones.

    What else could it be? I tried different brands and sizes of rotors, different brands and compounds of pads, different methods of "bed in". The way they feel and sound is so much like the caliper is misaligned that it's scary. Yet the caliper is perfectly centered. (until the stays flex )


    I'm interested in your theory.


    But as I said...my Juicy 5's were awesome for 2 solid years. Very quiet and smooth. I'd recommend them to anybody on a bike with supported non-drive side stays.

  44. #44
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    No problems for me

    Rider Weight = 165lbs
    Riding Style = All cross country technical Northeast singletrack
    Frame Design = Pivot Mach 4 and Seven Cycles Sola
    Fork = Fox 32 post mount
    Brakes = Juicy Carbon's

    I am an ex cycling industry employee of 20 years, 14 of which as a pro mechanic so maybe I am not a great example..........

    I have used almost every model brake out at one time or another. I settled on Avid's brakes because of the ease in which you can adjust and maintain them. I experience no signs of abnormal sounds or "warble" at all. The only exception is during peak humidity season in the summer when you get the occasional squeel, not just from my Avid's but almost every brake I have ever used.

    Just my 2 cents
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed
    I just find it rather odd that my J5's worked GR8 for 2yrs on my XLT. Then...all the sudden I switched to a 2004 Jamis Komodo Hardtail and they warble. Switched to brand new brakes...and they also warble on this bike. When I looked down at the stays and gripped my rear brake and rocked it forward...the caliper-side stays flexed forward and inward. The caliper flexed forward and inward. The warble and shudder doesn't happen until moderate/hard braking ie...when stuff starts to flex outta whack.

    Would make sense that a 160lb rider on something like a Kona Coiler wouldn't have issues and a 195lb rider on a fairly standard HT could. I really think that alot of it is due to frame design.
    I tend to agree. After all the peepin' I've been doing on the subject, frame flex seems like the logical answer for the wobble-gobble.

    Oh, and I am qualified to post here. Two years on some J7's, 2 wheelsets, Alligator & Avid rotors, Disco & Avid pads, no problems whatsoever except for some occasional mud-induced squeaking that goes away quickly.

  46. #46
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    I just ignore the racket. I stop, therefore, the brakes work.

  47. #47
    Reviewer/Tester
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    Avids..

    I've tested a few different types of hydro brakes over the years, and settled on the Avids simply because they are easy to set up and maintain.

    I only ever had a problem with one set of Juicy 7's that squeeled and howled like a stuck pig. I had to change the pads and rotors on that set, but eventually got them nice and quiet.

    I've found [i'm a bike mechanic] that set up is everything with the Juicies. You have to get them right, otherwise they will make a racket every time you hit the lever. Most bikes that come through my workshop have the pads set too low on the disk and the pads rub on the arms, which produces a warble under braking.

    Another thing...most new Juicy owners don't run the pads in correctly, and glaze them right from the start, which tends to make them noisy and not work well.

    Spacing the caliper out with small washers to get the pads biting only on the rotor and not the arms is vital to obtaining a quiet set of brakes. There are a few little but important things you need to do to get them working well and run in well. However, I have never ever managed to stop them howling and squeeling when wet...but that's pretty standard for all hydros..

    As far as frame flex goes, yes, it does happen, and yes, it does affect your brakes. There isn't anything you can do about that, except get a stronger frame. You don't have to be a mechanic to set up your Juicies properly, just do some research and homework before you start...it's not rocket science. My Avid Juicy 7's are dead quiet, except when wet.


    Rainman.
    It is inevitable ...

  48. #48
    Person Who Bicycles
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    Brakes: Juicy 7s
    Frame: 08 R.I.P. Niner
    Fork: F29120mm (post mount)
    Rear mount: I.S.

    Mine are dead silent even during bed-in, and only experience noise...if they are untrue or have a bent rotor. And when that happens they hiss slightly like any other untrue brake. OMG. helpppp.
    I agree with rainman above. I've only been biking 8 months but after a careful and proper setup I've had zero problems.

  49. #49
    Girt by sea.
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    Juicy 5s, Epic 2005 model, rider weight = 83kg, non-mechanic owner.

    No squeal except when wet.

    Cheers,
    Graeme
    What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's all about?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    My photography web site: www.scenebyhird.com

  50. #50
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    Juicy Ultimates here, running set stock Avid rotors.

    "Nope no turkey howl here."

    No mush, no squish, either.

    And, in fact, good modulation.

    As I raised in a "Juicy Ultimates Suck" thread, it may have to do with rider profile/style vs. application of the hardware.

    The Ultimates are for light & fast XC/race riders and applications and their concomitant skill set, not for chili extra cheeseburger types who plow through everything and then wonder why nothing's made well enough.

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