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  1. #1
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    New question here. New organic pads fadeded, why?

    I installed front/rear EBC Green organic disc brake pads on my Juicy 7's. On the first ride at about 13 miles I descended Elevator in El Moro and near the bottom my brakes completely gave out. The rear lever went all the way to the bar and the front was fading as well. After I picked my self up I re-adjusted my brakes and they seemed to work fine, but I didn't do any more steep descending, so I don't know if the same will happen. I've never run this type of pad, so I'm curious if they were not broken in yet at 13 miles ( seems they should have been ), were they not adjusted in enough or did they just get too hot and fade?

    Do organic pads not dissipate as well as the OEM type pads? I'm not sure what OEM pads are made of, but I'm guessing they are metallic. I've run disc brakes for years and descended Elevator many times and never had brake fade.

    Bike: Rigid 29er SS
    Brakes: Juicy 7's with 6" rotors
    Riding style: XC
    NOTE: I'm having a slight confidence issue with these pads after this happened.

    I searched and it's been mentioned organics fade faster than metallics, but the way these faded was crazy fast. If what I experienced is normal, then I'll have to go back to metallics.

    Any thoughts or suggestions?


    Thanks!
    AC
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  2. #2
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    Read my very recent post on rim brakes... But really yeah, death by break failure on a bicycle is not the way i want to go out. Ask the Juicy people what they think...then make a change back.

  3. #3
    Never enough time to ride
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    I've had the same issue with organic pads in the past, on really steep/fast downhills they faded out...you should try it on The Ribbon in Fruita...talk about scary. They don't seem to handle the heat as well and consequently fade rather quickly. I would switch at least the front brake back to a metallic or oem pad. I've never had a problem with them fading at all.

    I've got my J7's with a 7" rotor out front with metallic pads and a 6" rotor out back with an organic pad. The organic on the rear gives me better modulation which helps with wheel lock up and the extra power on the front makes draggin my 220 lbs butt down from speed a breeze, one finger all the way. And on a 29er you might want to consider poppin up to a 7" in the front at least, better heat control and more uummph to slow down the bigger wheels.

    Ignore this STACK joker. I just got done reading his last post, and he's just being a dink. Adjust them right, bed them in, get your pad compound right and your good to go.

    My .02 any way.

    happy trails...

    squish
    Get out and ride!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by STACK
    Read my very recent post on rim brakes... But really yeah, death by break failure on a bicycle is not the way i want to go out. Ask the Juicy people what they think...then make a change back.
    OR he could fix the problem and end up with a more powerful brakes system.
    Your "issues" are a lack of knowledge and ability. That does not make disk systems bad.
    I HATED the lack of wet braking with rim brakes, the need to dry them our before I could expect them to work and all that rubbish.

    I wouldn't be pointing people back at your rant about the subject and expect them to take you seriously from that point on



    OP, how did you run them in? You didn't just put them on and ride normally?

  5. #5
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    STACK is on crack, ignore him. Lever to bar = fluid fade. How old is your brake fluid?

  6. #6
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    Yeah, I bed them in before I started any descents. But, to be sure I'm going to sand the pads and give it another go. Thanks!

    UPDATE: I did about 10 gradual slow speed parking lot stops.

    Quote Originally Posted by ash240
    OR he could fix the problem and end up with a more powerful brakes system.
    Your "issues" are a lack of knowledge and ability. That does not make disk systems bad.
    I HATED the lack of wet braking with rim brakes, the need to dry them our before I could expect them to work and all that rubbish.

    I wouldn't be pointing people back at your rant about the subject and expect them to take you seriously from that point on



    OP, how did you run them in? You didn't just put them on and ride normally?
    Last edited by anthony_coley; 04-07-2009 at 06:45 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Yes, "Lever to bar = fluid fade" is what I've always thought. I've had these J7's almost 1 year, so I doubt the fluid is bad. I'm wondering if ash240 is on to something and maybe I didn't run them in well enough. I ran them in just like I always have with metallics, but maybe organics need a little more for proper bedding.. I'm going to pull them out, rough'em up, reinstall, re-run in and see how it goes.

    Just from my first ride I think I like the organics. They felt really smooth and quiet and didn't I get any brake chatter feedback that is so common with the stock pads.


    Quote Originally Posted by vk45de
    STACK is on crack, ignore him. Lever to bar = fluid fade. How old is your brake fluid?
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  8. #8
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    hmm, I guess I can't help ya then. The only cause I know of for a spongy level is air. Pad fade will usually not give your a spongy lever.
    http://www.se-r.net/car_info/brake_performance.html
    For cars, but the mechanics of things are the same.

  9. #9
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    Nice, see red below. Maybe I'll just call it quits and go back to metallics, since I've never had any issues with metallics. I'm not a DH'er, but I do like to ride fast and want to know I can scrub speed when needed.

    Thanks everyone.

    "Organic pads are kind of old school and are common on cheap aftermarket replacement pads for older and sometimes new cars. These pads do not wear the rotors very much. Some cars have these as stock pads. Beware of these as they are worse than the stock pads...."

    Quote Originally Posted by vk45de
    hmm, I guess I can't help ya then. The only cause I know of for a spongy level is air. Pad fade will usually not give your a spongy lever.
    http://www.se-r.net/car_info/brake_performance.html
    For cars, but the mechanics of things are the same.
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  10. #10
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    It just sounds like fluid fade (from boiling) to me. I had it a bit on my magura martas (has organic pads, sintered are not recommended there)

    If it was the pads, you would have had some nasty squealing with fairly normal lever pull, but way less than normal braking power.

    You issue is partly still the pads because organics dont handle heat as well. I also noticed EBC organics seem worse than most. So, go back to stock sintered pads.

    Another contributing issue maybe your fluid is a bit old and absorbed some water which significantly lowers it's boiling point. It also could be DOT 4 fluid. Nothing wrong with DOT 4, but DOT 5.1 has a higher boiling point. Replacing the Dot 4 with Dot 5.1 (make sure it's DOT 5.1, not DOT 5)will help your fading.

    If you were to do either the fluid replacement (you can do this yourself) or sintered pads, your problem would be reduced if not go away.

    If you were to do both, you would have a nice solid brake system for those long downhills.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  11. #11
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    Update....

    Hi,

    I got around to bleeding my brakes this weekend and wanted to provide a follow-up. I was shocked when I removed my NEW ( only one 15 mile ride ) EBC Organic pads and noticed they were shot. I mean the rear was completely worn out and the front was almost worn out. I'm shocked! To recap, I installed these pads new, adjusted calipers, went for 15 mile ride that had about 2500' equal climbing/descent, crashed on a steep descent at about 13 miles because my brakes quit working. I'm 175lbs, ride a rigid 29er and have ridden this same descent many times with metallic pads. I installed new metallics this weekend and rode the same decent with no issues.

    I compared the organics to my original OE metallic pads, which I've had almost 1 year, and the EBC organics were worn down just as much. Weird! How can that be? These pads have to be defective.


    I will post some pics if anyone wants to see.
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  12. #12
    LDH
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    any pad can be overheated and worn to nothing in short order if you drag them , I did it before too. Use a on/off braking method to prevent this.

  13. #13
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    EBC's own branded pads are the absolute worst. I still can't believe they sell these compounds after all these years. Maybe they're just betting on bikes being single purpose, as in strict XC meaning no downhill trails and no moisture on the trails either.

    Please don't use EBC. The avid compound is actually quite good.

  14. #14
    ballbuster
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    well.. myeahhh... but...

    Quote Originally Posted by vk45de
    STACK is on crack, ignore him. Lever to bar = fluid fade. How old is your brake fluid?
    I had the same exact issue on my Hope Mono Minis. I got some cheapo Disco Brake organic pads (4 pr for $25 shipped including pad spring!). They were great, until they got too hot... which was pretty easy to do on some of the hills around here. They used steel backs instead of the Hope's copper backs, and steel doesn't get rid of heat nearly as well as copper.

    When they got too hot, I needed more brake lever, and eventually they would almost go flat to the bar. I backed off before it got to that point, but I can see how somebody else might let it go hotter.

    I just recently broke down and bought some Hope Sintered pads... problem solved. Downside is (are) they are $$$ (like everything Hope) at $35 a set, and they are squeakier. I can live with that. Brake bite is actually about the same, but they resist fading way better. Now I need to find an LBS with another pair so I can do my rears too.

    Pulsing your brakes helps, of course. Let some cool air run across the face of the pad.

  15. #15
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    Wow that website said organic pads are like cardboard.... I guess they only exaggerated a little.

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