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  1. #1
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    My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.

    Hi all, I just joined MTBR a few mins ago. I ride a 2012 Specialized Epic Comp that came with Avid Elixer 7 or something brakes. The brakes generate a horrific vibration/turkey gobble/warble sound that can come and go, but for the most part it was always there and I hate it. From what I hear it's very common. What fixed mine was to remove the pads, clean the backing plate with alcohol and apply blue painters tape to the backing plate. Trim it about a millimeter in from the edges with a razor blade. Install the pads back into their original location. My bike brakes go from horrible to a pleasure to ride with the tape on the back. Now I search for a better material to use, not sure how long the tape lasts. I will report back after a few more days of testing. But adding the tape shut my brakes up instantly. Auto brakes always have a backing plate covers and phenolic pistons, probably for the same reasons. Why my MTB doesn't, I have no clue. I hope this can help some people out there having the same issue.

  2. #2
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    That is a great first post!
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  3. #3
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    LOL, thanks. I just got the bike brand new a few weeks ago. Before I added the tape on the backing plates of the brakes, my front and rear brakes were shaking the bike bad. So with the tape installed, the immediate result was no noise/vibration. I did nothing else. I literally went from a real bad issue at all times, to adding the tape, going down the road and having the issue gone. Nothing else was done. Stock pads and rotors are in place.

  4. #4
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    I have attended quite a few automotive brake classes over the years and brake noise is usually the primary topic. Seems like brake noise has lessened over the years primarily due to better manufacturing tolerances. Brake shims are used to aid heat dissipation and alignment imperfections. I'd say bicycles brakes suffer from minimal overall materials and misalignment. Most automotive calipers "Float" which really helps alignment whereas a mtn bike is 100% fixed. Just had a bike come through the shop w/ a noisy & lightly vibrating brake where the owner said new brake set ( new pads 2 different sets) he had the mentioned problem. We confirmed a true rotor and non-contaminated quality pads. Lightly facing the disc tabs eliminated the problem. He had switched from a Hayes brake set to Avids - Apparently the Hayes were less tolerant of the mis-aligned disc tabs.

  5. #5
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    I worked for Ford and also have had my share of brake problems in the automotive field. I see less and less warped rotor and noise issues with automotive brakes these days. Back when I was working for Ford I was constantly working on brake troubles. After getting my first bike with disk brakes a few weeks ago and running into this issue , I realized the lack of parts compared to an automotive brake. Just for laughs I decided to use tape as a makeshift backing plate. Lucky for me it works. price and effort was minimal. I feel in my case the tape stops the pads from developing the vibration frequency that the bike frame and forks do not like. It must shim out some slop and also isolate the vibration. I took a ride today and I'm still good

  6. #6
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    I seemed to have made a few improvements to my brake noise saga. I was still going strong with the blue painters tape but I switched to a thin aluminum tape used for duct work. I covered the backing plate and one edge of it with the tape. I also bent the retaining clips slightly out to add more pressure There seems to be two issues causing the warble. I feel the rotor design causes the vibration and the lack of shims and insulators allows it to resonate through the bike. The tape alone makes my front and rear brakes 95% quieter. Adding a simple Hayes rotor up front made the front even better. The pad hitting the rotor spoke doesn't sit well with me on the stock rotor design. I like how the pad rides in the meat of the rotor on the Hayes. I still have to change out the rear rotor although it is very quiet now. I feel it will get better. I will report back.

  7. #7
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    The aluminum tape sounds more durable than painters tape. It may well be that the layer of adhesive is what is doing the job of damping out vibration.

    I did a spring mod, not to increase the pressure but to make it more even top to bottom because as it is the majority of the force is on the top of the pads. You have to just bend the 'tines' out enough to balance things without having the spring not sit flush with the pad in situ.

    I never had that much noise from mine - Elixir 9 on an '11 Epic, but things have been eerily quiet for the last few months. I ride an hour or two a day on mountainsides so they get lots of exercise in mostly dry conditions. I run OEM pads on G3 rotors.

    For the record, I was running Maguras on a [new] loaner for two weeks and they had the classic turkey warble in stereo. No Avid patent on it, apparently! Nice brakes, great lever, but would take some sorting out in this case.

    This is a useful post; thanks for the ideas.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulerias View Post
    For the record, I was running Maguras on a [new] loaner for two weeks and they had the classic turkey warble in stereo. No Avid patent on it, apparently! Nice brakes, great lever, but would take some sorting out in this case.
    Word. MT-8s here, front brake howls and vibrates the whole bike horribly. A little dab of grease on the pads helped, but I am going to try some tape, too.

  9. #9
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    Try the aluminum tape. I'm testing that now with a stock rotor and pad in the rear and a Hayes rotor up front with stock pad. I think I was going to rip through the blue tape fast. Having the aluminum tape on the back and down one edge locks them in nice
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.-image.jpg  


  10. #10
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    I swapped in a set of Serfas semi metallics and found that the noise disappeared instantaneously. They aren't as aggressive to stop, but much easier on the ears. Wet or dry, not a peep.

    I'm on my second set, with another pair for next year. $10 a pair is a lot more forgiving than the $30 avid wants for garbage pads...

  11. #11
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    Great to hear I was wondering if there was a decent pad out there for a more reasonable price. I tried organic pads but that did not cure what I like to call the turkey warble problem. That to me is a different sound than a squeal. I can almost live with some squeal. The warble to me is horrible and no fun to deal with on a ride.

  12. #12
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    Why not just use disc break quite from an automotive parts store on the back of the pads? it is designed for these issues and would probably last long then tape with expose to water and muck and so forth.

  13. #13
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    My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.

    Try Gorilla Tape


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phinox View Post
    Why not just use disc break quite from an automotive parts store on the back of the pads? it is designed for these issues and would probably last long then tape with expose to water and muck and so forth.
    Because I wanted to shim the pads so they don't move and vibrate. The aluminum tape is extremely sticky also. I was never a fan of the spray on or the jell type of brake quiet in the past. Although I did think about it. As of now I'm 100 % cured and I feel it's mostly from having the tape on the edge of the pad to take up some slop. Along with it in the backing plate and the more simple design of the Hayes rotor. Today's automotive brakes come with very well made shims and insulators as for the goop and the spray on stuff .......I have not touched it in 20 years. There is the type that soaks into the pad and it does not last the other kinds can't act as shims.

  15. #15
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    If you shim the caliper up off the adapter just enough to keep the pads from contacting the rotor spokes, you will find it reduces noise. I had to use a couple of washers with my Elixir trails to keep them quiet. I do know of a bike that is resistant to even this solution, so I will try some tape on his pads and see how that works. Thanks for posting your results!

  16. #16
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    I agree, in my opinion there are 2 parts to the problem in my case. I thought for sure that just changing the rotor or doing what you did with the shims to lift the pad out of the spokes would solve it 100%. It didn't. It got a little better . I feel the brakes work by doing millions of micro stops that I call stiction and a vibration is always created. Insulating it or changing its frequency is the next step. As far as a brake squeal goes it's caused from the pad crystallizing from heat. Most the time it can be sanded off or in case of a car rotor it can be resurfaced.

  17. #17
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    Took my bike out for a major beat down on the trails today. I'm finally very happy , the brakes performed beautiful. Very enjoyable ride.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragundicm View Post
    I literally went from a real bad issue at all times, to adding the tape, going down the road and having the issue gone.
    Sweet...glad to hear. What Bike and brakes are you running ? What tape did you use and how did you apply it. I'll post pictures later of the tape after it gets more abuse. My ride yesterday involved some sand, mud, and down hills. Performance before the tape shim was horrific......Now, I just smile and enjoy.

  19. #19
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    Lead tape that's used to customize tennis racquets might be something else to experiment with if for some reason the aluminum tape doesn't get the job done. Sounds like the aluminum tape may be the fix though. Vader1 is going to have the undying gratitude of a lot of people if that's the case.

  20. #20
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    I will have to say I had it bad, front would vibrate like crazy, rear felt like crap and would also vibrate. I bought a roll of 4 dollar blue painters tape and put it on the back of the pad and rode 12 hard miles on sunday and didn't have one problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy907 View Post
    I will have to say I had it bad, front would vibrate like crazy, rear felt like crap and would also vibrate. I bought a roll of 4 dollar blue painters tape and put it on the back of the pad and rode 12 hard miles on sunday and didn't have one problem.
    Nice....12 miles of good braking is nothing to complain about for 4 bucks. I would guess you could do a good 80 or more on the blue tape. Who knows, maybe it holds up for the life of the pads ? I got 4 miles on the aluminum tape and there is no signs of needing a change yet. Did you go along the sides of the backing plate with the tape Flyboy907 ? I found this to be a huge improvement over just putting it on the backing plate only. I only went down one edge because both seems too much.

  22. #22
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    I also don't see the tape creating any other problems. Only time will tell for me. I was so fed up with the vibration before this that it does not even matter. I got four miles and counting, another guy got 12 and we are happy. My front vibration was so bad.....I didn't want to ride. You could literally see the forks acting like tuning forks when you looked down the side of them. LOL, not cool.

  23. #23
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    I Put about another four miles on, lots of heavy down hill braking. Zero noise, Zero vibration. After my next run I'll inspect the backing plates and take some pictures. This is all on my 2012 Specialized Epic with Avid Elixer's running the stock pads with the aluminum tape on the backing plate and down one edge. It's one continuous piece.

  24. #24
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    With new brake pads, I'm surprised there's enough room to apply tape on the backing plate and install the pads with no drag. I'll try my Elixir CR's and see if it helps.
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  25. #25
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    The thickness of the tape I've been using is .004 When you say Drag....are you talking about braking force that's going to stop or slow you down or are you talking about the pad lightly brushing the sides of the rotor ? I would not worry too much about a new pad that slightly just brushes a little bit. My bike is new and the pads clear with the tape. After the tape is applied....I just loosen up the caliper bolts, squeeze the brake lever and then torque down the bolts. I don't even fart around or look at it after that. Just ride. If you hear a slight brush.....Just ride it. It will break in real nice very fast. I also use a set of Hayes rotors....seems to be even better. $22 bucks a rotor. The stock ones were fine with the tape but these Hayes just seem to hit a home run.

    Without the tape applied....the problems are bad. It's night and day. This goes for stock avid rotor or the Hayes that I got. No tape = bad news. Horrible sounds and vibration.

  26. #26
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    Hi-

    I have Avid 9 Trail on a 2013 stumpy fsr 29er.... and am dealing with shudder on the front fork. Did you have shudder? Are you using organic or metallic pads?

    I have a set of Kool Stop metallic and organic. I also happen to have some aluminum duct tape. Any thoughts on how to cure my shudder?

    Thanks,

  27. #27
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    My front forks were vibrating like a tuning fork, the vibration could be called a shudder. Sounds like a turkey gobbling, the front forks shake mostly from the rear. the rear sounds like it's a gobbling turkey and grinding stones at the same time. I use the stock pads that came with the bike. They look like metallic pads. Try the tape with the stock pads. Look at the picture I posted. Do one edge also with the tape. Slide them back in real easy and even. Don't let the tape fold off the edge.

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    One edge front or back of the pad?

  29. #29
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    Duct tape, Gorilla tape, now Vader tape. Are we present at the beginning?

  30. #30
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    Well brakes let me down .... Again ..... I did a 6 hour endurance race this weekend and after 25 miles at the end they are squealing and vibrating like hell!!!! Just rode with the wife to the store and she looked at me as was like what the hell is that noise ,
    Pretty sad when my 3k bike sounds worse then here 300 dollar bike !!

  31. #31
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    just my 2 cents...

    Make sure your pads are contacting the rotor at exactly the same time.
    In my experience, if one touches before the other the rotor will flex and .... noise.

    My calipers need to be re-centered on occasion.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    just my 2 cents...

    Make sure your pads are contacting the rotor at exactly the same time.
    In my experience, if one touches before the other the rotor will flex and .... noise.

    My calipers need to be re-centered on occasion.
    Been there done that this tape trick is done after all else fails

  33. #33
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    I will have to try this. I also have a sticky piston issue on the rear brake (elixir 7s). Any tips on that one?

  34. #34
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    i just put aluminum tape on the back of my pads today, horrible turkey gobble even though i just put on new kool stop organics. they didnt make any noise for about the first 20 miles or so and then slowly it came back. had really good bed in procedure and when i took pads out to put tape on they arent glazed or damaged in anyway, they look really good.

  35. #35
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    took the bike out with taped pads for a 10 mile bike ride tonight, lots of hard downhills and tight corners, no noise so far. i actually didnt even expect this to work at all, but so far so good!

  36. #36
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    Could you show some clear photos how you put the silver tape on the back of the pad, with one edge? Thanks.

  37. #37
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    when i put the tape on i did not leave one edge taped. i put the tape on the back and traced out the brake pad pattern.

  38. #38
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    Whatever works best guys. Experiment and post your findings and experiences.
    Last edited by Vader1; 10-10-2013 at 11:21 AM.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevor_b View Post
    I will have to try this. I also have a sticky piston issue on the rear brake (elixir 7s). Any tips on that one?
    That's another subject. There are other post about the pistons sticking I would rebuild them if they are old. Sometimes you can free them up or the o ring around the piston needs a replacement.

  40. #40
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    Here's my experience :
    • I've put aluminium tape on the back of the pads and on one edge
    • Cleaned the pads and rotors with isopro alchool
    • Centered the calipers with home made shims (from pop can, works really well).
    • Climb the mont sainte-anne.
    • Went back down on an mostly downhill ~10 km trail.

    The brakes were dead silent for 3/4 of the trail, I was extremely pleased... But then, the warble came back with a vengeance! Perhaps all the hard braking and heat got through whatever was silencing the brakes. But it did work for some time, very happy I was!

    I'll try with blue masking tape next...

  41. #41
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    I have 12 miles now on the aluminum tape and I'm still 100% quiet and vibration free. My downhill riding in NJ are short runs. I rode today and was very pleased once again. dclxvi....post a pic of the back of your pads after your run if you can.

    After I record the mileage afte my tape stops working, if it ever does, I have a few ideas of other materials to try. I'm looking into getting some thin sheets of rubber or titanium about .004 thick.

    I just ordered some titanium foil to experiment with.

    We need some pictures of the tape after it fails to see what happens to it.

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    Perfect pictures dclxvi !!!!! Looks like the tape gets worn through or worn too thin ???? The lower right pad shows a few spots where it looks worn through ? I'm going to work on trying the titanium foil when I get it. I'm still going strong on my tape but I guess your fierce down hill ride was too much.

    Wow....so the aluminum doesn't do that bad. OK.......plan B. We need something stronger. I got some ideas brewing.

  44. #44
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    It sure look worn through. I'll add another layer where the pistons push the pads and see how that will go (if it fits).

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvi View Post
    It sure look worn through. I'll add another layer where the pistons push the pads and see how that will go (if it fits).
    It might make it a little too thick, but sounds like a good plan. Keep us posted.

  46. #46
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    My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.-image.jpgToday I got the titanium foil. When I get a chance I will cut a few backing plate shims out of it and test them out on the trails. However my original tape has another 8 miles on it and its still working. I think that's 20 miles now. Here is a pic of the titanium foil.

  47. #47
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    Titanium foil with tape backing?

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    I'm probably going to secure it behind the backing plate a different way than the tape. I'm still doing some thinking. One good thing so far is this titanium measures as thin as the tape. I'm not sure how it will work but its worth a shot. Im just looking for a material that will stop the turkey gobble like the aluminum tape and withstand some punishment of severe down hill braking.

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    Re: My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.

    Simply cleaning the disc rotors with denatured alcohol does the trick for my mechanical disc brakes.
    What works for me may not work for you. What's best for you depends on many factors. We are different from each other.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtb_beginner View Post
    Simply cleaning the disc rotors with denatured alcohol does the trick for my mechanical disc brakes.
    different brakes. This is mostly for Avid hydraulic brake. This fix is for the people that are at their wits end. In fact I have not cleaned my rotors with alcohol once after this. Cleaning with alcohol is mostly just general maintenance on a relatively problem free braking system. Making shims cuts out vibration and insulates the rest of the bike from the vibration of the brake rotors and pads. Cleaning my brakes stops my problem and many others for about 30 feet. Trust me , we have all tried that already. Do we clean our car brakes with alcohol often ? Hmmmmm. Not.

  51. #51
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    Re: My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader1 View Post
    different brakes. This is mostly for Avid hydraulic brake. This fix is for the people that are at their wits end. In fact I have not cleaned my rotors with alcohol once after this. Cleaning with alcohol is mostly just general maintenance on a relatively problem free braking system. Making shims cuts out vibration and insulates the rest of the bike from the vibration of the brake rotors and pads. Cleaning my brakes stops my problem and many others for about 30 feet. Trust me , we have all tried that already. Do we clean our car brakes with alcohol often ? Hmmmmm. Not.
    After reading more about that issue, I'm now curious about which bike brand is still using Avid brakes on any of their model lineup. Looks like Specialized totally dropped this brake on their latest lineup.
    What works for me may not work for you. What's best for you depends on many factors. We are different from each other.

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    Yeah it happens with other brands of brakes also. Avid seems to be one of the notorious to cause the vibration in some bikes . If you have a set and have this issue it should cure it. Cost is like four dollars. It may not even be the brakes it could be that some frames don't react we'll to the vibrations that a certain brand of brake will produce on that frame. Well I'm all cured so hope this helped some.

  53. #53
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    MTB_BEGINNER, trek still uses avid on alot of their bikes.

  54. #54
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    vader, i think they problem lies in the pistons. al those little "feet" dig into the aluminum and thats what starts the noise. thats why at first the aluminum backing works, then slowly comes back. it makes the same impression in the tape as the shoes. i bet if the pistons had more surface area such as just a solid round contact point it would cure all problems.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryandurep View Post
    vader, i think they problem lies in the pistons. al those little "feet" dig into the aluminum and thats what starts the noise. thats why at first the aluminum backing works, then slowly comes back. it makes the same impression in the tape as the shoes. i bet if the pistons had more surface area such as just a solid round contact point it would cure all problems.
    I'd suspect that it's the damping effect of the adhesive. Pads get hot and are probably baking and compressing the gum. I had major warble with some recent Maguras; I guess I should have taken a closer look at the pistons. You could be right.

    Wish my Avids would start warbling and I could get in on the R&D. ;-)

  56. #56
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    Sure does look like it Ryan. One strange thing is the warble comes and goes without any added tricks. With tape it never happens until the piston rips through it. I think just from preventing the pad from vibrating and at the same time insulating it also must take up play that may be the main problem. On a car the shims and insulators take up slight play which makes them quiet. The piston pushes on a shim rather than the pads backing plate. The caliper also floats. Unlike the brakes on our bikes. I'm in the process of making the titanium shims. I'm utilizing the bolt to hold them in behind the pads.

  57. #57
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    "Wish my Avids would start warbling and I could get in on the R&D. ;-)"

    dont you say that. dont ever say that!
    My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.-billy-madison-w1280.jpg

  58. #58
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    vader, id like to see your outcome with titanium. althought ceramic is tough stuff, i have found .025 thick ceramic that im contemplating on buying and cutting to the side of the piston, or getting a tough high heat epoxy and filling in the piston grooves.

  59. #59
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    Lol. Love that Ryan........is that my brakes or my cheeks flapping in the wind.

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    Ill work on the titanium ASAP. I've been pressed for time lately with two young boys to attend to.My two sons are into bikes and motorcycles also ,so there are lots of projects with them also. On most of my repairs or mods, I try not to alter any of the original parts by cutting, glueing, or grinding. I always want to be able to go back to original. I'm still going strong on my original piece of aluminum tape. I'm wondering if my success is do to the tape being on the edge of the backing plate that gets shoved forward by the rotor. My pads can't move forward due to me having the tape on that edge. I will try to get the titanium exactly the same.

  61. #61
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    i think tonight i am going to see how deep the "feet" are on the piston and pop them out and sand them smooth with some 220 silica carbide paper.

  62. #62
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    The titanium shims do not work, however the original pieces of tape were still 100 percent in tact. What I notice is the pistons ridges find a home in the aluminum. Sort of wiggles its way into it. Aluminum is also very gummy in a way. It may be acting as a lubricant. If you ever machined 6061 you will notice it gums up cutting tools. The tape I'm using is called Nashua 324A cold weather. Install time less than five mins
    Last edited by Vader1; 10-21-2013 at 06:17 PM.

  63. #63
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    My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.

    I just taped my pads with 3m aluminum tape. I have ridden the same pair of Juicy Sevens since there was only one pinch bolt at the handlebar.

    The brakes have lasted three bikes, thousands of miles, pads, rotors and bleeds. But, I had accepted the turkey warble.

    I am excited.

  64. #64
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    vader, yes the piston impression the feet make in the pad is where i think some of the noise comes from. i say this because when i put new pads on it was super silent, then slowly came back and what do you know it had indents, aluminum tape gave a "flat" new surface for a few miles but then go right back to finding its way into the pad feet impressions. what you go could is epoxy the titanium on the back of the pad in a circle, no need to tape the whole pad i dont think.

  65. #65
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    Im not ripping through my tape for well over 20 miles or more. I have not found the limit on my tape yet. The most I ever ride in one day is about 10 to 15. I installed the titanium between the piston and pad last night. The sound is horrific , so it does not work. New pads are quiet because they don't have the full braking force for a while. Until they are bedded in , they are not capable of producing the problem. If you spray alcohol on the rotors it makes the brakes less grabby for a short time. Trouble goes away. You can't stop the vibration , you have to just take it out of its frequency. New pads will do that for a while. Once they bed in the pads and rotor start gobbling on some bikes . For some reason the tape stops it and I'm actually shocked at how well it works .I'm not ripping through the brand of tape I'm using ........at all. So I'm sticking with this. Literally .Someone made a good point about the glue on the back of the tape could also be helping out. It's just weird how quiet they get. Makes you smile. The trouble is 2 part. The vibration has to be just so and the piston material or design chatters on the backing plate of the pads. You stop those 2 and you're in business

  66. #66
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    my tape is not ripped through and they are pretty quiet but every once in awhile i get 5 minutes of squealing. i ordered some mica washers that qithstand high temps and are a little softer, i will see if they stop the noise. the are 3/4 od which is just slightly bigger than the piston footprint, so installation should be quick and easy! i will post pictures tomorrow with results later that night after i ride!

  67. #67
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    the reason i used mica as well is because it is known for being very excellent in the sound proofing and heat dissipation areas. should work well!

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    Ahhhhh good idea, its thin also. Squeal is from the pads crystallizing on the surface from heat. Do you want more heat in your rotor or in your caliper ? I know Organics and metallic pads put the heat into different parts of the brakes. I forget what way it goes. I think a squeal is a different problem than the Turkey Warble. Or does it all go hand in hand at some point ? My results, so far are zero noise....No turkey or pig, ZERO. I'm feeling very blessed. lOL

    I have never experienced a squeal with my mountain bike brakes. It as only been the so called turkey sound. Squeal is probably from all out heat and maybe even contamination from water and mud.

  69. #69
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    What I want to know is, how in the f%*k does Vader only have one chicklet?????

    I don't have Avids on my bike, (wife does, but no issues) but I'm reading this thread and thinking how helpful and willing to share you are is commendable. There are folks on this site that have posts out the wazzoo, positive rep chicklets out the same orifice, and from what I can read, don't even deserve them...

    Vader on the other hand...

    Positive rep this guy folks!!

  70. #70
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    50/50. heat in rotor will cause fading, heat in caliper will keep fluid hot, although caliper is more likely to cool quicker due to having a larger surface area hitting wind rather than cutting through it like a rotor.

  71. #71
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    Ok...that's why you can't use Metallic pads on a magnesium caliper. Those pads put the heat out to the calipar or simply generate more heat and that could = more noise. Squeals are more from dirt and pad contamination and sometimes when heat is too excessive, its actually the material crystallizing. In that case, it would have to be sanded off or the dirt simply moves off on its own after it cools down. Who knows.....it does not hurt to experiment.

  72. #72
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    im rocking organic pads, so i shouldnt have problems with the material crystalilizing on my pads i wouldnt think. i will just experiment until snow flys then buy xtr's! lol

  73. #73
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    I'm doing a 1x10 now and a rear hub. I have to make some of the stock stuff work for now. I wonder what a good replacement brake would be ? I could head to the LBS and just complain again. I'm still under a year on my ride. The tool at the LBS acted like he had no clue. Avid will send out parts if needed. I notice brand new organic pads and rotors did not work. Instantly they made the noise. Took 1200 feet to start acting up. With the tape, I have some excellent feeling and working brakes. Go figure 3300 bucks for a bike and I got to rig stuff. Guess I didn't pay enough. The good bike was 10,000
    Last edited by Vader1; 10-23-2013 at 06:52 AM.

  74. #74
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    yeah, i hear ya, bikes made this high end shouldnt have problems. i ride a 7000 dollar bike, trek superfly pro 2012. and nothing but problems with the brakes. everything else is amazing though.

  75. #75
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    Bummer....It pisses you off. Man, what a price tag !!!! In reality, I probably paid for the frame and suspension. The rest was to get it rolling out the door. As time goes on I will have this machine well tweaked, just like all my other stuff. (within rea$on)

    Too much fun to give it up. These XC 29ers are a blast to ride. Love that Superfly.

  76. #76
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    My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.

    Rode tonight and I still had a noticeable warble from the rear. It was quieter but the same noise.

    The front was dead silent.

    The bike stops so I am happy.

  77. #77
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    My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.

    In hindsight I realize that I taped the rear first and the front second. I was very liberal with the front and taped both edges and had to use a tool to tap the pads into place.

    With the rear, I barely taped one edge and pretty much just covered the back of the pad.

    I will retape the rear and see what happens.

  78. #78
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    I got a new rotor, and will get new avid pads. Will see if it stop the sound. I suspected that my rotor is worn out, even I true it on my park tool wheel stand. The old rotor might have marks on it that created sounds, even after I replaced the pads. However, beside that, they do brake well...

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    In hindsight I realize that I taped the rear first and the front second. I was very liberal with the front and taped both edges and had to use a tool to tap the pads into place.

    With the rear, I barely taped one edge and pretty much just covered the back of the pad.

    I will retape the rear and see what happens.
    Just go on the edge that the pad gets shoved to by the rotor during braking. Two edges will make the pad a little too tight in the caliper in my opinion. My fronts always feel better than the rear (on pavement) but they are both working fantastic. I installed brand new rotors and pads on mine without the tape and I had the vibration and noise within a few hundred feet. I'm not sure why this is because when I got the bike brand new and test rode it, everything was fine. Its probably because they were not bedded in. Strange I tell ya. Good luck with yours bud.

    Also....all my riding is done off road in dirt. Braking forces on a road are probably much more aggressive. In other words....with my big ass on my bike off the road, the tires will lock way before they will on a road. Pavement will probably induce much more force on these already troubled brakes. So on the road.....I stop like I do with my Harley. I apply most of the braking in the front without jamming on it and fill in the rest with the rear. Off road.....its a little different. Test your tape off road for a while to see how it is.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader1 View Post
    Two edges will make the pad a little too tight in the caliper in my opinion.
    I taped my rear by just adding a second layer to the outside 1/4 of both edges of the pad, covering the edges completely. The pad is still sloppy loose in the caliper. My rear is 1st Gen Juicy 7, front is a 2nd Gen (has the two bolts at handlebar). I got them circa 2005/2006.

    I only ride my mtb off road.
    Last edited by Adroit Rider; 10-24-2013 at 09:00 AM.

  81. #81
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    My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.

    Here is a pic of rear pad after 10 miles of rolling tight twisty.

  82. #82
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    This is my final write up on the aluminum tape fix for the turkey warble noise on newer Avid Elixer hydraulic brakes. I apply one layer on newer pads and two layers to worn pads that are maybe more than half way gone. As for older model brakes......I have no idea. Sorry Adroit Rider. This may still apply to your older brakes also but I have no way to know. Ok.......after testing I have found that you must have the tape on the edge of the backing plate or it does not work 100 percent. It has to be on the side that shoves into the caliper during braking. On the other edge of the pad, I have been putting some graphite on it for good measure. The mod seems to work because it takes up slop around the pad and prevents it from rattling around inside the caliper. As the rotor runs past it and shakes them side to side. The rotors are not 100 percent true nor does the caliper float, so the pads backing plate thrashes all around inside the caliper. They are solid mounts, so are most the rotors. As my pads got older I added another layer of tape but only to the backing plate, not another layer to the edge. You can only take out so much play without having things too tight. This fix lasts a good amount of time for me. If your pads shake around too much inside the caliper,even after tape, you may not get 100 percent quiet. The aluminum acts as shims. It also insulates and is a bit slippery. The turkey warble is actually a very fast squeaking sound. It can also be a fast grinding sound. You can see all the rubbing going on inside the caliper and on the backing plates. That is what generated the sound. The trick is to stop it.
    Last edited by Vader1; 10-26-2013 at 02:16 PM.

  83. #83
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    The graphite is a good idea. Small amount will lubricate that end of the pad so that it doesn't bind on the inside of caliper, and it shouldn't creep and contaminate/lubricate the pad surface/rotor.

    Simple as just rubbing a pencil on the pad edge.

  84. #84
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    did this yesterday... works. Will see how long, but even if it doesn't last forever it is easy to do so , Thank you!

  85. #85
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    Can you please tell me visually where to put the graphit? A photo would be helpful.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader1 View Post
    This is my final write up on the aluminum tape fix for the turkey warble noise on newer Avid Elixer hydraulic brakes. I apply one layer on newer pads and two layers to worn pads that are maybe more than half way gone. As for older model brakes......I have no idea. Sorry Adroit Rider. This may still apply to your older brakes also but I have no way to know. Ok.......after testing I have found that you must have the tape on the edge of the backing plate or it does not work 100 percent. It has to be on the side that shoves into the caliper during braking. On the other edge of the pad, I have been putting some graphite on it for good measure. The mod seems to work because it takes up slop around the pad and prevents it from rattling around inside the caliper. As the rotor runs past it and shakes them side to side. The rotors are not 100 percent true nor does the caliper float, so the pads backing plate thrashes all around inside the caliper. They are solid mounts, so are most the rotors. As my pads got older I added another layer of tape but only to the backing plate, not another layer to the edge. You can only take out so much play without having things too tight. This fix lasts a good amount of time for me. If your pads shake around too much inside the caliper,even after tape, you may not get 100 percent quiet. The aluminum acts as shims. It also insulates and is a bit slippery. The turkey warble is actually a very fast squeaking sound. It can also be a fast grinding sound. You can see all the rubbing going on inside the caliper and on the backing plates. That is what generated the sound. The trick is to stop it.
    You have to take into account that at a 1/2 G stop - locking the front - you'll have maybe 100 lbs times four or two hundred pound load per pad on that leading edge. Whatever load you put on the tire is multiplied by four and lands on that little spot inside the calliper. The car pads I work on usually have a little stainless clip thingy that they ride against. Maybe the fix should be something in that direction at the front of the calliper rather than on the pad.

  87. #87
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    Let us know what you come up with. It's a great thought.

  88. #88
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    Do you think this solution is specific to Hyrdo's? Is there any reason to think it wouldn't work the same on mechanical?

  89. #89
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    It stops the pads from rattling around on the inside of the caliper. I don't think that has anything to do with them being mechanical or hydrochloric. I never had mechanical brakes to test it on. If you do.....try it and let people know what you find. So far I have found that Brake Quiet goo works and the aluminum tape. I rather not mess with the goo.

  90. #90
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    i just ran iceman in michigan this past weekend, was wet and at times going through some large puddles. this tape kept my brakes quiet as a mouse the whole time

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryandurep View Post
    i just ran iceman in michigan this past weekend, was wet and at times going through some large puddles. this tape kept my brakes quiet as a mouse the whole time
    Nice !!!! I took my bike to the local bike shop the other day. The Mechanic says to me....."there is something wrong with your Avid brakes, they are not making any noise." I had to fill him in on the tape trick . I could tell that he was liking it. He said he has had so many issues with his brakes over the years and he will try it out also.

  92. #92
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    I have been thinking about the sounds from the breaking, have anyone thought about the spring that is between the pads created a high tone? I was thinking to do something about the spring...maybe aluminum tape it? Tape it where it touch the pads? Just an idea...

  93. #93
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    My fidings on the Turkey Warble Noise.

    I've been dealing with this noise on the BB7's. I have sets on two bikes with different rotors. My 1x1 ha s the factory bb7 pads with no mods, BUT had Shimano rotors. These rotors don't have the crazy slot design and the brakes are quiet for the most part....MUCH quieter then my Long Haul Trucker that has bb7 with stock everything, including the rotors. These things are noisy as hell!

    So i have a set of Shimano rotors (these just have round holes in them as opposed to the cheese grater slots) that I'm going to install this weekend and see how it does. I'm thinking part of the issue is the crap rotors Avid makes, and the second issue is the slop that the tape is fixing. I might try the tape trick on the 1x1 and see if it does anything to it!

    I'll post what I find, if anything.
    ACCESS Stealth 3.0 carbon 29'er
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  94. #94
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    The tape will quiet them 98% the simple rotor design will do the other 2%. It seems to shim the pads has better result than messing with changing parts.

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    I'm happy that I found the thread. The solution is simple and cheap, but I have one question. When the tape (in case of non metal tape) is between the pad and the piston, the heat can not pass to calliper (and then to air). Is there an over heating problem on long descends with continuous braking?
    Last edited by selin; 11-07-2013 at 11:06 AM.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by selin View Post
    I'm happy that I found the thread. The solution is simple and cheap, but I have one question. When the tape (in case of blue tape) is between the pad and the piston, the heat can not pass to calliper (and then to air). Is there an over heating problem on long descends with continuous braking?
    I think the idea is to not have the heat pass to the piston and then to the fluid or calliper; fluid temperature is one of braking's limitations. This is why you see the finned pads. Also why you use a composite or ceramic piston. Ideally, the heat should go to the rotor out there spinning in the wind.

    There is a question of whether the tape would reduce the cooling of the pad backing plate. I'm also suspecting that the glue should start to cook at some point.

  97. #97
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    So now it's raining almost everyday in my area. Since the rain, the stock MTB_BB7 with 180mm G2 CleanSweep rotor have been screaming. Aluminum tape behind the pad dampened the screaming, but not by much. So with 250p grit I refaced the rotor, and with 100p grit refaced the pads. Going to re-embed them as SRAM/Avid states and see how they act.

    It would seem to that the primarily cause of sound is in the rotor. Ever flick it, does it sing back? Okay, so I lived with a sound engineer for 7 years, I have a limited education in sound.

    Rotors with long spokes and a near circular outside radius are essentially set frequency tuning forks; rotors have a bar at the end(the braking surface) that will ensures a particular vibrational frequency from the end of the spoke. The shorter the spoke, the less distance the vibration has to build up resonance. The OD of the rotor; if the cuts are smooth and elliptical creating an outer edge that is near circular in its diameter, this will allow the vibration from the rotor spokes to move around the OD, were the spokes in conjunction with the brake path amplify the vibration when vibrating together, more so under braking.

    I had a friend tell me I should put some red silicon between the hub and rotor mounts as well as a small amount of brake goo to cover the area the piston makes contact with on the back of the pad where the aluminum tape has been applied. He also stated, "Brake Goo is specifically used on the caliper, between the cars brake pad and hydraulic cup to dampen vibration".

    Anyone try a brake goo or easy to clean silicon adhesive on the back of their pads and/or rotor mount yet?
    Last edited by pdxmark; 11-07-2013 at 07:56 PM.
    Goodbye '95 ZJ. Just so you know, transfering box of left behind womens panties to next truck. Thank you ZJ!

  98. #98
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    Yes we have tried brake quiet. Lets not forget this thread is for the vibration that we have named the turkey warble. It's not a brake squeal. Two different animals. We have already figured out what is rubbing to create the sound and vibration earlier in the post. It's simple the pad rubbing on the inside of the piston and caliper. It's that simple. The tape stops it. No overheating. Aluminum is great for taking on heat. A brake squeal is caused be the rotor and pad surface the pad and rotor gets glazed. It's actually crystallized. Sanding and cleaning helps that.

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    My bad, sorry I over looked that. Is there a thread in regarding squeal? I'll start looking.
    Goodbye '95 ZJ. Just so you know, transfering box of left behind womens panties to next truck. Thank you ZJ!

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    Yes there is. That seems to be a more difficult issue and I'm glad I don't have that problem. Although I could deal with that more than what we are discussing here. I have never had a brake squeal issue.

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