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  1. #1
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    Most Powerful Brakes

    Hey Guys
    Ive got a Giant Glory which i use for DH. The stock brakes are 2008 avid juicy 5's.
    So far ive had a few problems with the brakes. They need regular bleeding dont seem to have the bite that im after, even with EBC red pads.

    Im now wanting to get a more powerful brake set (mainly for the front)
    What i really want to know is what would be the best brake to go with. Normally im weight concerned but i would rather stop properly than have a light bike.
    Im interested in the Avid Codes, the New saints, and maybe some Hopes.

    So what would be my best bet. I want power. and reliability no matter the weight.

    I hope you guys can help
    Cheers
    Brent

  2. #2
    ballbuster
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    Define 'best'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bon Fusious
    Hey Guys
    Ive got a Giant Glory which i use for DH. The stock brakes are 2008 avid juicy 5's.
    So far ive had a few problems with the brakes. They need regular bleeding dont seem to have the bite that im after, even with EBC red pads.

    Im now wanting to get a more powerful brake set (mainly for the front)
    What i really want to know is what would be the best brake to go with. Normally im weight concerned but i would rather stop properly than have a light bike.
    Im interested in the Avid Codes, the New saints, and maybe some Hopes.

    So what would be my best bet. I want power. and reliability no matter the weight.

    I hope you guys can help
    Cheers
    Brent
    .... Cause somebody makes an 8 piston with a 220mm rotor IIRC. On paper, that looks like the most powerful brake I can imagine for a mountain bike. Weather you would actually want it on your bike is another story. Sounds like throwing a 2" stick in your front wheel.

    I would have to say Hope Mini M6 would probably be as good as it gets for hard clamping binders, but IIRC they stopped making them this year.

    I had a 4 pot Shimano XT brake, and that was pretty crazy strong, even with a 160mm rotor...and still had good modulation. The new Saints are a similar format with 4 pistons. I'm going to venture that is your best bet paired up wtih a big rotor.... although I have not tried the new Saints myself.

  3. #3
    TLL
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    Gustavs

    ONEs or MEGAs

    Saints

    No experience with the Hopes, so can't comment, tho I hear they are super.
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  4. #4
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    Gatorbrake makes that monster 8 piston brake system.

    We are testing it now on a Specialized Demo 9. Still a while to go before we can write the review but this is the feedback so far (the limited other feedback online on them is not very positive, but our experience differs so far).

    - excellent lever feel
    - no sponginess at all - the Juicy 5 is a noodle compared to it
    - excellent modulation
    - adequate absolute power ie. you can stop
    - looks great

    The assumed benefits that we have not tested yet would be that these brakes would not suffer much from brake fade or anything heat related due to their massive size.

    The brake that I can say is vastly superior to the Juicy 5 for DH use where weight is not the primary concern are the Gatorbrake 6 piston that we did finish reviewing.

  5. #5
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    Another vote for the hope M6. Do think they're overkill though.

    My nomad came with juicy 3's, upgraded to the 5's then on to the hpe M4's. Had too many problems with fade on the juicies on very long downhills. When swapping to M4's also upgraded fronts to 203mm

  6. #6
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    I have a set of M6's that I might part with.
    Team MOJO Wheels.

  7. #7
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    I would go with Hope Moto V2s, Formula THE ONE or MEGA.

    You can get more "power" from Hope M6's, but I find the power easier to control on the Moto V2.

  8. #8
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    The M4s and the V2 brakes are both great for that area of riding...

    or you could go something extreme like this, he he he...

  9. #9
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    I know I'm going to get killed for saying this..... but my 203mm BB7s with speed dial levers will easily send me over the bars with a fairly easy two finger pull. I'm sure if I wanted to, I could endo with one finger with a little effort.

  10. #10
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    Custom brake system

    To the OP. I have Shimano XT BL-M755 4 piston calipers with XTR M975 levers on my bike and they are AWESOME. If you have any interest in a set up like this I have the means to make it happen.

    This is a custom system and has proven to be very powerful, with great modulation, and good lever feel.


    PM me with interest.

    Cheers,
    BFE
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #11
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    I have no idea why you have a 4 pot brake set up on a HT SSpeed/Rolhof hub...? Thats too much brake for that bike and set up...!?

    Your bikes stays have not been reinforced to support that kind of brake force, so under harsh braking, sqeeling, and trail chatter or bumps small jumps etc etc that may put stress on that area, you also may infact damage your bike...?

    But then again, this special set up you talk about may inhibit that...?

  12. #12
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    Hi,

    I use Formula the One brakes.
    When I pull hard on the front, the fork visibly bends under the bike.
    It's a top of the time AM fork, WB Fluid 135.

    Only problem I have is they seem to want a fatter rotor than I have.

    Does anyone have any advice, I hear the Hope moto V2 rotor might be the right size, anyone had any experience?

    Thanks

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidsy
    I would go with Hope Moto V2s, Formula THE ONE or MEGA.

    You can get more "power" from Hope M6's, but I find the power easier to control on the Moto V2.
    Incorrect. The V2 is the most powerful brake in Hope's lineup, with approximately 20% more braking power than the M6, according to them. It also is one of the, if not THE most powerful brake made to this day. It was even ranked in some of those German tests where they actually quantify the braking force.

    Also of note- the V2 is replacing the M6 completely and an enhanced M4 is somewhat filling the gap left.

    Another vote for the V2. They are made also to resist fading and thus far, I have not even gotten the lever to pump up in the slightest, intentionally dragging the brake to try and fade it down a mountain.

  14. #14
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    Another vote for the Hope Moto V2. It's way more powerful than my 6 Ti's, but doesn't modulate as nicely.
    --> Both powerful, both modulate nicely, but the V2 ramps up and bites quicker.

  15. #15
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    Hope Moto V2,

    with out a doubt
    tried the vented hated it, floating is perfect, locks up fine, just as powerful as the 6 pot and nice feel from lever, as i work in this trade found out that the 6 pots are now being layed off by hope, they said that they are over kill now weigh too much and the v2 is lighter and as powerful if not more than the 6 pot!

    cant complain from my V2 at all

  16. #16
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    why did you hate the vented?

  17. #17
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    well i had 2 sets front and rear and well lets say they are suppose to stop heat? sorry reduce by 15% it wasnt that it done nothing at all! made them go spongy sent them back to hope they said the pads were fine and rotors had no issues but supplied new ones, hope (no pun intended) they go well so i put them back on the bike gave them a go down hill and these just didnt want to no either no bite no feeling but the floating is total opposite cannot get better both me and a few guys from other stores i work at agree and had the same issues so thats my personal experience wouldnt go near the vented but tryit first dont take my word as being correct all the time

  18. #18
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    I just couldn't follow that. I'm sorry. I don't ordinarily do this, but I really want to know what happened, and I just can't understand you.

  19. #19
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    Wink

    hey
    dont worry..

    well basically i have a V2 front and rear on my ironhorse sunday...

    started out with the vented option and the wouldnt lock up and gave me a really nasty feel through the lever.

    sent them back to hope being unhappy with them, they said the pads were fine (even though they replaced the free of charge) and the rotors seemed ok too but again replaced them to see if my problems were solved.

    got the new pads and rotors back with the brake, put them on and this time it was worse just wouldnt really perform right. no feel there didnt feel good so i said could i try some floating rotors and they kindly sent some out to me and ever since then they have been powerful and so strong better than the 6pot i had before from them!

    now i get to endo.. skid how i like, and actually able to brake in progression if i want or lock up instant sucha great brake with the floating rotor even put a front on my XC! over kill maybe but works better than anything i had before hope ya understand this 1

  20. #20
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    I have both the Magura Gustav and the Hope Mono 6. The Gustav trumps the Mono 6 in terms of power while the Mono 6 has better modulation than the Gustav.

    The Gustav is a bit heavier than the Mono 6 and uses a 210mm front rotor and 190mm rear rotor while the Mono 6 uses same sized 203mm rotors. The Gustav has a fixed rotor and 2 piston monoblock sliding caliper and it uses mineral oil. The Hope has floating rotors, 6 piston monoblock fixed calipers with DOT 4/5 fluid. My Gustav have standard brake lines while my Mono 6 have steel braided lines. Both brakes have excellent quality but the Hope seems to have more bling. I like the Hope's lever feel over the Gustav.
    DH:Mountain Cycle Shockwave 9.5 w/ 888R
    FR:Marin Quake w/ 888RC
    AM:BMC Superstroke 01 w/ 66RC2X

  21. #21
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    Dude, you're smokin' it. That is the biggest line of.........

    I'm 6'6" tall and 210#. I am running 160mm rotors f/r. There is no undo stress on my frame. give me a break. These 4 piston brakes are not specific to big hit downhill bikes.

    If you want to go flame someone go to the political forum and flame on.

    I have no idea why you are talking out of your a$$, but get off my back!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sim2u
    I have no idea why you have a 4 pot brake set up on a HT SSpeed/Rolhof hub...? Thats too much brake for that bike and set up...!?

    Your bikes stays have not been reinforced to support that kind of brake force, so under harsh braking, sqeeling, and trail chatter or bumps small jumps etc etc that may put stress on that area, you also may infact damage your bike...?

    But then again, this special set up you talk about may inhibit that...?

  22. #22
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    Wow...where did that come from...? I am actually surprised at your reply son.



    Although I think YOU are the troll buddy.... I mean WHY else did you react so aggressively and arrogantly to my post. Or, have you come to the bewildering conclusion that people on this thread are disallowed to express their ideas and opinions about your bike, you and your set up...?



    Now, I was not on your back...neither was I insulting you nor your apparent NEW design set up for your bike. You could drop off your simple existence tomorrow and I would not give you a second thought...so why the sudden misunderstanding.

    I simply made a statement and gave you very simple justification as to why I think that...SO...how am I flaming you...? Was I somehow mysteriously insulting you? Can you point that out please...?
    The biggest line of....
    I am not here to give you any kind sh!t that you imagine I am apparently giving you. I simply replied to your post and if you cant deal with that simple fact that perhaps you should not post on this or any forum for that matter, because that is what tends to happen on threads you know. People post and others comment...you know, making conversation and exchanging ideas. Im sorry...did your last post express any ideas...?

    Now you owe me an apology thank you very much. I never insulted you...and I did not give you any reason to insult me.

    If you can not handle someone talking about your post, your ideas or any part of your frothing statements, then you should not really be here. Anyone on this thread has the right to say as they please about anything you post as long as it is not insulting you or degrading you.
    Or do you need to read the forum rules again...?

    1) Dude, you're smokin' it. That is the biggest line of.........
    2) I'm 6'6" tall and 210#. I am running 160mm rotors f/r. There is no undo stress on my frame. give me a break. 3) These 4 piston brakes are not specific to big hit downhill bikes.
    4) If you want to go flame someone go to the political forum and flame on.
    5) I have no idea why you are talking out of your a$$, but get off my back!!
    Let us now look at the waist of time BS you just wrote down, point by point so its easy to follow.

    1) Dude, you're smokin' it. That is the biggest line of.........
    How that the biggest line...? Please explain your answer with some slight level of articulation. I expressed my opinion and backed it up slightly with why...what did you do?

    2) I'm 6'6" tall and 210#. I am running 160mm rotors f/r.
    And...I am supposed to GUESS this info right. I did not see you post that info anywhere and if you did...well, I did not see it. Either way, that is not any kind of justification for opting for 4pots on an SS that has no area on the frame, which has been reinforced for such a piece of equipment (NOT to say it can't or that people do not do it though)

    3) These 4 piston brakes are not specific to big hit downhill bikes.
    Erm...sorry you lost me here...? Did I say that those specific brakes were designed ONLY for DH did I (?).

    4) If you want to go flame someone go to the political forum and flame on.
    Im sorry but I have not been to the political forums yet (not that I remember at any rate) so I would not know if people are flaming on there or not...however, YOU obviously do!!!!

    Flame...you mention this quite strongly. Where did I flame you, tell me...?

    5) I have no idea why you are talking out of your a$$, but get off my back!!
    Again, I was not ON your back. I dont understand how you came to that thought...? I state an obvious assertion regarding a possible missmatch and you think I am on your back...? Son, you have no idea...IF I WAS ON your back, believe me you WOULD know it. Now I have nothing further to say to you and you are on my blocked list just because I think your an idiot, basically...

    On that note, if you wish to have the last word and use your vaunted powers of deduction and type out some insulting BS about me...go ahead, the floor is yours and yours alone.
    I do not take part in flame wars or trolls fishing for trouble. So this is my last reply to you.

    Perhaps you can ACTUALLY make an intelligent response, stick to the topic and help or chat about the current discussion with more appropriateness (if thats a word) than you have so far displayed...?

    Apologies to everyone for having to read all this prose-tripe BS.
    __________________________________________________ ______________________
    This reply took 2 mins of waisted time...I could have been riding instead of having some troll ride me up the backside with his superfluouos verbal diareah.

  23. #23
    TLL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sim2u
    Wow...where did that come from...? I am actually surprised at your reply son.
    I think he replied the way he did because you commented negatively on his setup. You reply is even more comical than his.

    BTW, that brake is just fine on that frame. Sycip brothers make a solid frame.
    Hadley rear hub service here and here.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jme46
    hey
    dont worry..

    well basically i have a V2 front and rear on my ironhorse sunday...

    started out with the vented option and the wouldnt lock up and gave me a really nasty feel through the lever.

    sent them back to hope being unhappy with them, they said the pads were fine (even though they replaced the free of charge) and the rotors seemed ok too but again replaced them to see if my problems were solved.

    got the new pads and rotors back with the brake, put them on and this time it was worse just wouldnt really perform right. no feel there didnt feel good so i said could i try some floating rotors and they kindly sent some out to me and ever since then they have been powerful and so strong better than the 6pot i had before from them!

    now i get to endo.. skid how i like, and actually able to brake in progression if i want or lock up instant sucha great brake with the floating rotor even put a front on my XC! over kill maybe but works better than anything i had before hope ya understand this 1

    Sounds more like you worked an airbubble out of the lines when changing pads/rotors around, than it being a problem w/rotors.

    They are both made of the same grade stainless, and offer the same surface area for pad contact. One just has vents, which has no bearing on friction/pad contact.

  25. #25
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    I thought the same as well. Even my V2 vented was used and the braking was fine. Two sets of pads, and it's still running strong. Hell, I've even tried dragging them down a long descent and got nothing in terms of fade. They felt identical, beginning to end, although there was definitely more bite when they got hot.

  26. #26
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    ERM...Yeah, it was meant to be lol...the sarcasm was laid pretty thick man.

    Quote Originally Posted by TLL
    I think he replied the way he did because you commented negatively on his setup. You reply is even more comical than his.

    BTW, that brake is just fine on that frame. Sycip brothers make a solid frame.
    Well I agree with you that they make solid frames, I just disagree with the set up. But hey, thats my POV so deal with it really. No need to start throwing BS around like space monkies.

  27. #27
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    Sim2u, i think you have far too much time on your hands to write a reply of that size mate. Try going out for a ride instead!

  28. #28
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    Do not feed.

    Thank you TLL, and thank you Hadouken.


    Sim2u,

    Don't call me son. I know you are not reading this post, but in regards to me being a TROLL. Well, you can think what you want, and you can speak what you want, but don't expect me to sit back and take a slap in the face. I put a lot of time and research in how I build my bikes. When someone comments on my set up and really has no idea how that set up would work in the real world I get heated.

    Maybe I should not have come at you (Sim2u) so strong, but constructive criticism and flat out bashing someone's bike are two totally different angles to take on a topic. I'm not going to quote your TROLL post, but it takes a troll to know a troll and you don't know me.


    Now, to get this thread back on topic. I have been using the old school Shimano M755 4 piston calipers and new Shimano XTR M975 levers on two different bikes for the past 12 months, and I love the set up. I went from using Avid BB7 mechanicals to using this custom set up and I am very impressed with the brake feel and the huge difference in modulation I was able to get out of the hydraulic set up.

    Mind you I have not used Hayes, or Hope, or Magura brakes so I am not comparing or bashing those brakes one bit. I have only used said brakes above, both of which work well. The differences in the Avid and Shimano Custom set up were enough for me to source 775 calipers and 975 brake levers and start building the brake systems for others. I have two other friends/family running these brakes and loving them. The others running the system are both XC riders. Niether of them have had problems with the brakes being to powerful for their frame or fork set up.

    In all reality brake calipers are only as forceful as the force applied to them. Stating that a brake system is to much for said "SS/Rohloff" frame is ridiculous. There are many powerful brake systems out on the market. The custom set up I have built is one of those powerful systems. The custom system is not main stream and you can't buy them in the store, but you can build them or have them built and they will work great.

    Cheers, to those who have not blocked me on MTBR, and good day.

    BFE
    Last edited by BIGfatED; 09-25-2008 at 11:10 AM.

  29. #29
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    Last, long post...warning...its all good though.

    Hadouken-san, most of my replies I do while at work and I tend to type extremely fast - which is why my spelling blows. The acuracy goes right out the window. At the upper end of the work spectrum, I have a bit more time than others. And while being on the computer almost ALL day using a package of software, I like to swipe inbetween my work and here as well as 7 other sites, 2 of which (including this one) are not related to THIS work at the moment, but they give me focus - if that makes any sense? And this post should only take about 1minute or less, so thats not too much time really.

    But yes your right bro, I DO need to go for a ride...badly. Its been raining HARD here in Japan where I am so its a bloody mud fest. Which would normally be quite fun.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________

    BIGfatED, it was my intention to simply block you and leave it at that. However, it was mentioned to me by a person who frequents this site and the other I was on at the time, that you had replied so I thought I would check it out and give you the benefit of the doubt. Simply bloking you will not solve our dispute, missunderstanding and your attitude online in your response. And I called you son, because you replied like a younger person weilding illiterate copy&paste insults with the same angst to boot.

    So let me first address what you said about your bikes and work in a freindly manner conducive to a more even keel. I can fully understand how you feel when a person comments on your work, which you rightly so feel pasionate about. Myself and many others would feel perhaps similar in some regards.
    However, I would not have reacted as you did though. I mean when I am in an R&D dev meeting presenting my roadmap/ idea for a product, when some one shoots it down or just simply mentions their ideas that may contradict with my own, well I don't go around the office calling them names and insulting them regardless of what they say. Of course it's bad for business and not professional on any level. And if what you state is correct and your business is making bikes then you should really adopt another tact when defending your ideas, assumption and or concepts either online or in any context...you never know who the people you are speaking to online are.

    And as I mentioned, it was not my intention to flame you or bait you in ANY way, so if you felt as such, then I will do the honorable thing and apologize to you for that if you felt that way.

    I say troll...ONLY because of your response. Recently there have been quite a few arseholes on here baiting and just plain being twats and it does get VERY tiresome because my intentions on this thread are simply to have a chat about anything MTB related. Learn something I do not know from others and generally just relax and chill out when some anally retentive-butt-newt tries to push a few buttons from their lack of understanding in reading the basics or any intricacies of a written statement.

    And after reading alot of your prior posts I do not think you are a troll, ok. But, calm down on the rhetorics mate. Its all good, even the bad...just depends on your perception and how you see things from out of the box.

    Now when you mention that you get heated when someone who has no idea about a given topic and they say something that is characterized as criticism either Pos/ neg, then you mention again that you get heated. Well, dont you think that perhaps you should have reacted in way that would help educate and show the person that they are wrong with some basic facts and if needed a pic so that they can gain a deeper understanding of your concept..I would! Unless they were a troll, or a w@nker ...which you are not.

    Yes that is right, I do not know you...but that is an easy thing to remedy with the internet. Moreover, I also work within the bike industry for one of the big guns at an Exec level. And this is just 1 of the companies I work for, there are 4 in total that encompase the automotive industry as well and all within the Industrial Design/ consultancy arena. Now I do not mention this to blow sh!te up the southern end of your rear facing north, I mention this because I do have un understanding of the bike business, their collective aims and goals as well as the bike industries direction etc etc and the various products thereof. That does not mean I have complete transparency in understanding of you, your ideas and or your business 100% or the bike industry either for that matter though, ok. I can make as many mistakes as the other guy.

    So I can comment on how I see something with a logical point of view. But, I am not engineer either, so please correct me if I am wrong, but do so in the same manner that was given to you; and the comment that was made was neither harch in any way nor was it intented to bait or insult you or give you or your product any disrespect.

    Now, I do not claim god status and there are sooo MANY things I do not know and understand and I do not claim any status in which I think I do. So, if I make a statement about any given object (as mentioned above) that you may think is wrong or in some way stunted, then by all means correct me and show me what you mean..BUT WITHOUT the BS, the attitude and insults please, OK...unless your a mate, in which case it's all 4 doors open on the agenda, he he he.

    Now I do not mind if you give me some sh!t here and there or even pay me out with a funny insult, if your intentions are both friendly and what you say is actually funny...I am VERY easy going.

    After reading many of your posts, you come accross as rather a nice guy, so its a pity we got off on the wrong foot really.

    So...you are unblocked (I know this has no bearing on you of course, its the gesture really) and lets just push the water under the bridge.

    Yep...back to the topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by BIGfatED
    Thank you TLL, and thank you Hadouken.

    Sim2u,

    Don't call me son. I know you are not reading this post, but in regards to me being a TROLL. Well, you can think what you want, and you can speak what you want, but don't expect me to sit back and take a slap in the face. I put a lot of time and research in how I build my bikes. When someone comments on my set up and really has no idea how that set up would work in the real world I get heated.

    Maybe I should not have come at you (Sim2u) so strong, but constructive criticism and flat out bashing someone's bike are two totally different angles to take on a topic. I'm not going to quote your TROLL post, but it takes a troll to know a troll and you don't know me.

    Now, to get this thread back on topic. I have been using the old school Shimano M755 4 piston calipers and new Shimano XTR M975 levers on two different bikes for the past 12 months, and I love the set up. I went from using Avid BB7 mechanicals to using this custom set up and I am very impressed with the brake feel and the huge difference in modulation I was able to get out of the hydraulic set up.

    Mind you I have not used Hayes, or Hope, or Magura brakes so I am not comparing or bashing those brakes one bit. I have only used said brakes above, both of which work well. The differences in the Avid and Shimano Custom set up were enough for me to source 775 calipers and 975 brake levers and start building the brake systems for others. I have two other friends/family running these brakes and loving them. The others running the system are both XC riders. Niether of them have had problems with the brakes being to powerful for their frame or fork set up.

    In all reality brake calipers are only as forceful as the force applied to them. Stating that a brake system is to much for said "SS/Rohloff" frame is ridiculous. There are many powerful brake systems out on the market. The custom set up I have built is one of those powerful systems. The custom system is not main stream and you can't buy them in the store, but you can build them or have them built and they will work great.

    Cheers, to those who have not blocked me on MTBR, and good day.
    BFE
    Thank you for your response, I appreciate it.

    What you say here is generally (generally) true. But, in an unpredictable world where people tend to do as they please, or do not have the ability to understand the given product in its given context and proceed to just plant their whole fist on the brake while riding some cool looking SS down a partially agressive AM-ish trail with enough idiotic repetition that something will actually and eventually brake. This would be because the design was not taking into account the unpredictable nature of the persons intentions, so your product has to be able to do more than just what you aim it to do for a specific area. There are names for this...

    I mean, look at lawn mowers for example. Those noisy, petroleum based defunct techy grass choppers were never design to be used for anything other than munching down tall poppies, grass or other ill begotton bastions of weed. Now, some crazy buggers are actually RACING them in the US somewhere...? And for me this is just absurd really, but its their fun and so be it. although they were never designed to be used in that fashion. Therefore, there are many brakages upon certain load areas that were not engineered to do so.

    You have slide drop outs which are great, but have certain draw backs too especially under high force braking - entailing all the dynamics of braking...extreme vibrations from multiple avenues being one of them. Trek had some issues SIMILAR (not exactly the same) in that regard to braking forces upon a load baring area and only from the standard 160mm rotor with a normal garden variety hydro brake.

    Am I wrong in that regard...perhaps, let me know though. I am wrong about many things and I do not mind that I am, so dont be afraid to put it on the table like a full house mate. Just be wise HOW you reply and put it on the table.
    Last edited by Sim2u; 09-25-2008 at 10:35 PM.

  30. #30
    narCOTIC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sim2u
    Hadouken-san, most of my replies I do while at work and I tend to type extremely fast - which is why my spelling blows. The acuracy goes right out the window. At the upper end of the work spectrum, I have a bit more time than others. And while being on the computer almost ALL day using a package of software, I like to swipe inbetween my work and here as well as 7 other sites, 2 of which (including this one) are not related to THIS work at the moment, but they give me focus - if that makes any sense? And this post should only take about 1minute or less, so thats not too much time really.

    But yes your right bro, I DO need to go for a ride...badly. Its been raining HARD here in Japan where I am so its a bloody mud fest. Which would normally be quite fun.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    Fair play. Enjoy the mud!!

  31. #31
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    Sure thanks mate, If I do, perhaps I should post them on the muddiest bike thread.

  32. #32
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    I'm still at a loss on how a more powerful brake puts more stress on a frame/fork than a weaker one assuming the weaker one can lockup/cause an endo. Once you hit the point of lockup or endo, you can't put any more force on the components, a more powerful brake just makes it easier to do so. Even with my super cheap fork and a 203mm BB7 that will endo me with one finger, I've had no problems.

  33. #33
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    Water under the bridge.

    Sim2u,
    Thank you for the reply. I appreciate what you have said in this last post and agree, we definitely got off on the wrong foot. It's all good

    In regards to your comment about some people being arseholes on this forum, I would have to agree, and I think that is the reason I reacted the way I did. I do my best to post positive feed back in other members posts and present my knowledge the best I know how. Lately people have just been bashing on topics, which come off less mainstream and Lemming-ish, if you will. I have never been known to follow the masses and probably never will. Some people on this site don't like to take off their blinders and look at topics of interest from any angle other than those which have been presented by the mainstream product pushers. Not everything new and shinny is better than that of which it replaces. Forums are ment to help people see past the smoke and mirrors and make an educated decision on the product, which they will spend their money on.

    As for the brake topic:

    I don't really understand why you feel the 4 piston brakes are so dangerous to put on an XC bike. From all the information I have gathered these calipers have been around since about 1999. People have been using them on everything from XC to DH. The 4 piston set up ables the brakes to have a greater ability to modulate and create a progressive lever feel. The power of the brakes is all regulated through the lever and is very linear in its progression.

    The Paragon sliding dropouts, that I'm running on my bike are CNC forged and very strong. The caliper mount, dropout and contact point of the frame to the slider all work as one piece when the rear wheel is in place. It seems to me that the forces which I apply to the drivetrain, wheel axles, pedal spindles, fork legs etc, far exceed the single force of the 4 piston caliper on a rotor. I'm no physics expert, so I might be missing something, but I see no reason why these brakes would cause damage to this frame or the Paragon drops regardless of how I ride my bike.

    I have put greater than 150 miles on this bike since I built it up three weeks ago, and I have not been gentle to it. I built this bike to take all that I can give it. Jeremy Sycip hand built this frame specifically for me and my riding style. This is the second frame he has built for me and the second is even better than the first. I have a lot of trust in Sycip and in those who have helped me choose the parts for this build. So how about this.....I am going to ride this bike as much and as hard as I possibilly can, and if I every have a failure of my frame due to the brake system that I have built, I will make sure and post so you can say, "I told you so". Until then........Ride on!!

    Besides, brakes are for those who don't like the speed they are going. Personally I like to go as fast as my body and bike will let me.

    Cheers,
    BFE



    Quote Originally Posted by Sim2u
    __________________________________________________ _______________________

    Now, I do not claim god status and there are sooo MANY things I do not know and understand and I do not claim any status in which I think I do. So, if I make a statement about any given object (as mentioned above) that you may think is wrong or in some way stunted, then by all means correct me and show me what you mean..BUT WITHOUT the BS, the attitude and insults please, OK...unless your a mate, in which case it's all 4 doors open on the agenda, he he he.

    Now I do not mind if you give me some sh!t here and there or even pay me out with a funny insult, if your intentions are both friendly and what you say is actually funny...I am VERY easy going.

    After reading many of your posts, you come accross as rather a nice guy, so its a pity we got off on the wrong foot really.

    So...you are unblocked (I know this has no bearing on you of course, its the gesture really) and lets just push the water under the bridge.


    Am I wrong in that regard...perhaps, let me know though. I am wrong about many things and I do not mind that I am, so dont be afraid to put it on the table like a full house mate. Just be wise HOW you reply and put it on the table.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuickGN
    I'm still at a loss on how a more powerful brake puts more stress on a frame/fork than a weaker one assuming the weaker one can lockup/cause an endo. Once you hit the point of lockup or endo, you can't put any more force on the components, a more powerful brake just makes it easier to do so. Even with my super cheap fork and a 203mm BB7 that will endo me with one finger, I've had no problems.
    Because as mountain bikers, we know enough to not lock up the wheels and skid. That's why many trails say "ride, don't slide" because lockups create erosion. I understand that you know your way around car forums or cars in general, as do I, and hell, I even have the Poston Enterprises books on the GN/GNX and the GS/GSX, and was even looking for a switch pitch convertor at one point. However, things are different in biking. When you're on the edge of max braking force, part of the experience in riding for some years before declaring yourself an amazing rider is learning how to crash, how to avoid crashes, and learning how to MODULATE your brakes to just before the point of lockup. Sure, according to tests, one can simply lock them up and get some braking, but the difference in bikes is the profound loss of control compared to cars (and believe me, my old Audi Quattros had anti-lock off buttons and I used them in the winter), but this is not the same in bicycling.

    Read around the forums a bit, learn some stuff along the way. Bikes are not cars.

  35. #35
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    In regards to your comment about some people being arseholes on this forum, I would have to agree, and I think that is the reason I reacted the way I did. I do my best to post positive feed back in other members posts and present my knowledge the best I know how. Lately people have just been bashing on topics, which come off less mainstream and Lemming-ish, if you will. I have never been known to follow the masses and probably never will. Some people on this site don't like to take off their blinders and look at topics of interest from any angle other than those which have been presented by the mainstream product pushers. Not everything new and shinny is better than that of which it replaces. Forums are ment to help people see past the smoke and mirrors and make an educated decision on the product, which they will spend their money on.
    Bro...I have to completely agree with you there. Even I have lost the plot here and there with the kind of nobs that just ruin it for the most part.

  36. #36
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    On my Stumpy fsr I have the Juicy Ultimates, 8 inch rotor front, seven inch rear, very nice, TONS of modulation, never have to have more than one finger to slow. On my hardtail I have BB7 rotors with Avid Ultimate Speed Dials. Not near as much modulation, but easily as powerful. Have to be careful on the BB7s to keep from locking them up and taking a trip over the bars. One finger on the front brake will send a person flying easily.
    Without the modulation the BB7s are actually TOO powerful.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Because as mountain bikers, we know enough to not lock up the wheels and skid. That's why many trails say "ride, don't slide" because lockups create erosion. I understand that you know your way around car forums or cars in general, as do I, and hell, I even have the Poston Enterprises books on the GN/GNX and the GS/GSX, and was even looking for a switch pitch convertor at one point. However, things are different in biking. When you're on the edge of max braking force, part of the experience in riding for some years before declaring yourself an amazing rider is learning how to crash, how to avoid crashes, and learning how to MODULATE your brakes to just before the point of lockup. Sure, according to tests, one can simply lock them up and get some braking, but the difference in bikes is the profound loss of control compared to cars (and believe me, my old Audi Quattros had anti-lock off buttons and I used them in the winter), but this is not the same in bicycling.

    Read around the forums a bit, learn some stuff along the way. Bikes are not cars.
    I agree 100%. I was just speaking in terms of peak loads on the frame, how would a big brake put more load on parts than a small one assuming both are capable of producing the same peak load (lockup). I went with the big front brake for fade resistance, less lever effort, and modulation seems easier with the bigger brakes even though the stockers could send me over the bars.

    I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand. I realize I'm in the bottom 10% in knowlege of bikes around here.

    Oh and with the new turbo technology, switchpitch convertors and super high stalls aren't necessary anymore. I put down 620lbs of torque at only 2,800rpm. But since I can't afford to drive it much anymore, my new obsession is mountain biking. Much cheaper and learning new stuff is fun even if I screw up. BTW, I went over the bars for the first time a few days ago. Felt kind of good in a weird sort of way lol.

  38. #38
    ballbuster
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    Would you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sim2u
    Wow...where did that come from...? I am actually surprised at your reply son.



    Although I think YOU are the troll buddy.... I mean WHY else did you react so aggressively and arrogantly to my post. Or, have you come to the bewildering conclusion that people on this thread are disallowed to express their ideas and opinions about your bike, you and your set up...?



    Now, I was not on your back...neither was I insulting you nor your apparent NEW design set up for your bike. You could drop off your simple existence tomorrow and I would not give you a second thought...so why the sudden misunderstanding.

    I simply made a statement and gave you very simple justification as to why I think that...SO...how am I flaming you...? Was I somehow mysteriously insulting you? Can you point that out please...?

    I am not here to give you any kind sh!t that you imagine I am apparently giving you. I simply replied to your post and if you cant deal with that simple fact that perhaps you should not post on this or any forum for that matter, because that is what tends to happen on threads you know. People post and others comment...you know, making conversation and exchanging ideas. Im sorry...did your last post express any ideas...?

    Now you owe me an apology thank you very much. I never insulted you...and I did not give you any reason to insult me.

    If you can not handle someone talking about your post, your ideas or any part of your frothing statements, then you should not really be here. Anyone on this thread has the right to say as they please about anything you post as long as it is not insulting you or degrading you.
    Or do you need to read the forum rules again...?



    Let us now look at the waist of time BS you just wrote down, point by point so its easy to follow.

    1) Dude, you're smokin' it. That is the biggest line of.........
    How that the biggest line...? Please explain your answer with some slight level of articulation. I expressed my opinion and backed it up slightly with why...what did you do?

    2) I'm 6'6" tall and 210#. I am running 160mm rotors f/r.
    And...I am supposed to GUESS this info right. I did not see you post that info anywhere and if you did...well, I did not see it. Either way, that is not any kind of justification for opting for 4pots on an SS that has no area on the frame, which has been reinforced for such a piece of equipment (NOT to say it can't or that people do not do it though)

    3) These 4 piston brakes are not specific to big hit downhill bikes.
    Erm...sorry you lost me here...? Did I say that those specific brakes were designed ONLY for DH did I (?).

    4) If you want to go flame someone go to the political forum and flame on.
    Im sorry but I have not been to the political forums yet (not that I remember at any rate) so I would not know if people are flaming on there or not...however, YOU obviously do!!!!

    Flame...you mention this quite strongly. Where did I flame you, tell me...?

    5) I have no idea why you are talking out of your a$$, but get off my back!!
    Again, I was not ON your back. I dont understand how you came to that thought...? I state an obvious assertion regarding a possible missmatch and you think I am on your back...? Son, you have no idea...IF I WAS ON your back, believe me you WOULD know it. Now I have nothing further to say to you and you are on my blocked list just because I think your an idiot, basically...

    On that note, if you wish to have the last word and use your vaunted powers of deduction and type out some insulting BS about me...go ahead, the floor is yours and yours alone.
    I do not take part in flame wars or trolls fishing for trouble. So this is my last reply to you.

    Perhaps you can ACTUALLY make an intelligent response, stick to the topic and help or chat about the current discussion with more appropriateness (if thats a word) than you have so far displayed...?

    Apologies to everyone for having to read all this prose-tripe BS.
    __________________________________________________ ______________________
    This reply took 2 mins of waisted time...I could have been riding instead of having some troll ride me up the backside with his superfluouos verbal diareah.
    ...beotches stop hitting each other with you purses, please?

    Frame stress is a non-issue with disc brakes... as long as the frame was designed correctly. I've only seen a pic of one broken disc brake mount, and it was a recent Trek Fuel with a minor design flaw that was fixed.

    I think the only exception was there were some forks that had a limit on rotor size form Fox.. or maybe something weight weenie like a SID.

  39. #39
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    Purse snatcher

    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    ...beotches stop hitting each other with you purses, please?

    Frame stress is a non-issue with disc brakes... as long as the frame was designed correctly. I've only seen a pic of one broken disc brake mount, and it was a recent Trek Fuel with a minor design flaw that was fixed.

    I think the only exception was there were some forks that had a limit on rotor size form Fox.. or maybe something weight weenie like a SID.
    LOL. It's all good pimpbot. We have come to amends and are moving on.

    Thanks for your support, "brake pad avatar man"

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