Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 55
  1. #1
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645

    Massive Warrantys On Avid Juicy/Elixir Brakes

    On Behalf of My Friend Chris Seymour at http://www.hilobikehub.com/ I'm Posting this thread. Right now he's got 3 Avid Equipped bikes in for warranty work. We wanted to find out if anyone else in the LBS's is having massive issues warranty wise? BTW we are located in Hilo Hawaii if that matters.They have been doing at least 4 a month lately.
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  2. #2
    T.W.O.
    Reputation: mimi1885's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8,158
    What's the problem beside the usual Avid noise.

  3. #3
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    The Calipers Lock up, Needs Constant Bleeding. New, Old most have the same problem. My Prophet has had 2 sets of brakes on it.
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  4. #4
    T.W.O.
    Reputation: mimi1885's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8,158
    I have altogether 5 set of Avids 4 J7 and carbon, and one elixir Cr other than annoying noise there's no issue so far. Thank god.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    500
    I work at LBS in South Florida. Haven't had any warranty claims on avid.

  6. #6
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by pumaking
    I work at LBS in South Florida. Haven't had any warranty claims on avid.
    Any other regions out there experiencing problems?
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  7. #7
    T.W.O.
    Reputation: mimi1885's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8,158
    I hope not. I doubt it too Juicy series has been around for a long time and elixir is not a new platform either if there's a massive defect we would know about it already.

  8. #8
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    It might be the 90+% humidity we have here on Hawaii island.... The levers just get tighter and tighter then you get constant rubbing on the rotors, if you leave it you get complete lock up! We are under the assumption that the dot fluid absorbs moisture out of the air. It's a constant battle! Most guys and gals have abandoned their avids for Magura set ups, but alot of us can't afford to go that route
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    629
    I've had constant issues with the Juicy 3s on my wifes bike, which don't get much use. When I last lokked at the bike the brakes were completely looked up. I've also had constant leakage issues from the plastic reservoir caps.

    My Elixirs seemed to lose performace quickly from new. I haven't tried rebleeding yet, but will do. The paint on them is also bubling and flaking off, so I'm not too happy with them.

    I'm in Brisbane. As you may know, we've had a lot of rain and humidity here this summer.
    Lapierre XR29ei, Chris King LB Carbon, XTR 1 X 10
    Planet X Dirty Harry
    Chiner 29er SS

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    528
    I have seven sets of Avid Brakes. I have one set of Code R's. Three sets of Code 5's. One set of Elixir R's and a set of Elixir CR's. One set of Avid BB7's.

    Aside from squealing/vibration I haven't had any issues with my brakes. However I do live in Southern California, a comparatively dry climate compared to Hawaii and Brisbane.

  11. #11
    Master of Disaster
    Reputation: Clones123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    979
    Eh? Who'd have thought that Avid brakes would have a high warranty rate?

    The Juicy brake turkey warble/vibration MEGA THREAD (689 posts)
    The Juicy brake turkey warble/vibration MEGA THREAD
    I'm gonna miss me when I'm gone.
    IMBA member #234701

  12. #12
    Never trust a fart
    Reputation: frdfandc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    4,049
    I work in a LBS in Delaware that services Delaware, Southern New Jersey, Northeastern Maryland, Southeastern PA. However, within a 20 mile radius, there are 10 bike shops. So I can only speak for myself.

    Only had 2 Juicy warranty issues in the past 3 years. And I'm currently running Juicy 7's without issue.

  13. #13
    Master of Disaster
    Reputation: Clones123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    979
    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc
    Only had 2 Juicy warranty issues in the past 3 years. And I'm currently running Juicy 7's without issue.
    That's not quite the same as saying that noise/vibration is rare with Avid brakes. Whenever I hear Turkey-gobble from a bike on the trail, I look to see and each time it's always been Avid hydro brakes making the noise. Not to say that there aren't large numbers of Avid-equipped bikes that don't make any embarrassing noises. Just saying...
    I'm gonna miss me when I'm gone.
    IMBA member #234701

  14. #14
    Bloated Cubs Fan
    Reputation: waterdude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    It might be the 90+% humidity we have here on Hawaii island.... The levers just get tighter and tighter then you get constant rubbing on the rotors, if you leave it you get complete lock up! We are under the assumption that the dot fluid absorbs moisture out of the air. It's a constant battle! Most guys and gals have abandoned their avids for Magura set ups, but alot of us can't afford to go that route

    If guys in South Florida aren't having the same problems (like the dude from the other LBS), then I would say it isn't the humidity. It's generally above 90% down there too.
    I said, "Do you speak-a my language?" He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich...

  15. #15
    Never trust a fart
    Reputation: frdfandc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    4,049
    Quote Originally Posted by Clones123
    That's not quite the same as saying that noise/vibration is rare with Avid brakes. Whenever I hear Turkey-gobble from a bike on the trail, I look to see and each time it's always been Avid hydro brakes making the noise. Not to say that there aren't large numbers of Avid-equipped bikes that don't make any embarrassing noises. Just saying...

    If you read the OP's 2nd post - Post #3 - he mentions nothing about noise/vibration issues in which we all know depends on the bike frame/brake/wheel combo. He states calipers lock up, having to bleed numerous times, ect.

    Just saying.....

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    249
    Edit: I would like to retract the first sentence of my post as the OP is obviously clueless and not a representative of the bike shop in question and is probably misrepresenting the statements made by his "friend".

    ****** **** **** ****** ** ******** *** ********* ** **** ** ********* ******.

    If the brake came with a bad bleed from the factory is should need to be bled one time. If the problem comes back within a short time then obviously bleeding again is not going to fix it.
    Last edited by HungarianBarbarian; 04-07-2011 at 12:55 PM.

  17. #17
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianBarbarian
    Sounds like your friend is probably not qualified to work on hydraulic brakes. If the brake came with a bad bleed from the factory is should need to be bled one time. If the problem comes back within a short time then obviously bleeding again is not going to fix it.
    Lol this is an on going problem for the last 5-6 years as far as I can remember on many different brands of bikes. Also it has been happening on customers bikes that have been brought here from abroad. As for My Friend and his Shop's Qualifications their mechanics they are all more then qualified to bleed my and everyone else's brakes!
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  18. #18
    Recreational Racer
    Reputation: Jvan_wert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    98
    I have Juicy 7's on my Giant that spent two years on Guam, never had any issues other than a bad bleed job when I learning how to bleed my brakes.
    “Let me 'splain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up.”

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    71
    I Cairns, Australia, Hgih humidty and me and Mrs Hay Ewe ride all year round
    I ahve Juicy 5 since Jan 08, no problems.

    Mrs. Hay Ewe had Juicy three, problem with the front, changed to Elixer and no problems since.

    Also, rarely get the warbling noise either - disks are moutend on Mavic Crosstrail wheels

    Hay Ewe

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bicyclelist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    452
    it seems the elixirs come with air in their initial bleeds so even when you get a set of brakes/a new bike, you will need to bleed them to get them to feel as they should. it's sad

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    249
    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    Lol this is an on going problem for the last 5-6 years as far as I can remember on many different brands of bikes. Also it has been happening on customers bikes that have been brought here from abroad. As for My Friend and his Shop's Qualifications their mechanics they are all more then qualified to bleed my and everyone else's brakes!
    Did you actually read my entire post before you started typing? I never said that they couldn't bleed a set of brakes. What I said was that if the brakes are bled properly and the problem comes back quickly then bleeding the brakes again is very unlikely the permanently solve the problem. You stated that Avid brakes need constant bleeding. I am telling you that no hydraulic brake that is working properly ever needs constant bleeding and if a shop is doing that then they are putting their customers health at risk. Being qualified to work on hydraulic brakes as a professional requires more than just knowing how to do a bleed. You also stated that most Avid brakes have this problem. Perhaps many do but my 1 set of Avid hydros worked fine from the factory and the only maintenance they've needed was a pad replacement. I doubt that most hydraulic brakes made by Avid have the problems that you are describing.

    Name dropping your "friend" and his shop in a thread where you are ripping on the products they sell is just stupid. Given your total lack of comprehension of my previous post, I doubt that you are accurately representing the statements made by your "friend".

  22. #22
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianBarbarian
    Did you actually read my entire post before you started typing? I never said that they couldn't bleed a set of brakes. What I said was that if the brakes are bled properly and the problem comes back quickly then bleeding the brakes again is very unlikely the permanently solve the problem. You stated that Avid brakes need constant bleeding. I am telling you that no hydraulic brake that is working properly ever needs constant bleeding and if a shop is doing that then they are putting their customers health at risk. Being qualified to work on hydraulic brakes as a professional requires more than just knowing how to do a bleed. You also stated that most Avid brakes have this problem. Perhaps many do but my 1 set of Avid hydros worked fine from the factory and the only maintenance they've needed was a pad replacement. I doubt that most hydraulic brakes made by Avid have the problems that you are describing.

    Name dropping your "friend" and his shop in a thread where you are ripping on the products they sell is just stupid. Given your total lack of comprehension of my previous post, I doubt that you are accurately representing the statements made by your "friend".
    Hey quit ya yellin.......
    My Name dropping is per request of my "friend' I would not have posted a link to his shop's website if I was not representing him. you are free to give him a call if you do not believe me.... (808)961-4452 No I do not work for the shop in question but that does not make me a non Representative

    The Statement "
    that most Avid brakes have this problem
    Yes Here where I ride, Hilo Hawaii, the Brakes have this problem. I think it's a problem like i said before with the high humidity and constant wet conditions we ride in. My "Friend" the owner of Hilo Bike Hub asked me to post a thread asking if anybody else out there is experiencing these issues.

    The constant bleeding of these systems is the only "remedy" besides changing out the entire Master/Caliper combo. I know this "fix" is just a band-aid on a gunshot wound but it keeps you going. Imagine doing a ride and your front wheel constantly dragging? Sucks huh? The System is simply absorbing too much moisture from the air and building pressure therefore locking up the caliper. I don't know, they don't know how this is happening with this so called "sealed system" but it is.

    As for your so called "health risk" if you properly dispose of dot fluid.......
    Last edited by ae111black; 04-07-2011 at 02:38 PM.
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  23. #23
    T.W.O.
    Reputation: mimi1885's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8,158
    What did avid said when the brakes were sent back to them for warranty. Did avid come up with solutions? How 'bout the other shops in the area do they have the same problems. What about hope brakes they used dot too any problems with those as well?

    I'm try to narrow down any possibility that may have common problem from any above sources mentioned. Your title is a bit of a stretch covering not one but 2 generations of avid brake lines. What evidence that your shop offer to you other than your op. This is not an attempt to bust your balls but I want to know in case it turn out to be the case as your situation is quite specific to the location but not necessary climate.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    249
    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    As for your so called "health risk" if you properly dispose of dot fluid.......
    You are clueless dude, the health risk is putting people on the trail with brakes that are not functioning properly. If your conditions are truly so hardcore, then I guess the only solution if for the shop to stop selling Avid brakes but since other shops in areas with high humidity don't have the same problem I tend to doubt your story.

    In any case bleeding brakes is only a solution for air in the system, if the fluid is contaminated with water then bleeding will not solve the problem.

  25. #25
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885
    What did avid said when the brakes were sent back to them for warranty. Did avid come up with solutions? How 'bout the other shops in the area do they have the same problems. What about hope brakes they used dot too any problems with those as well?

    I'm try to narrow down any possibility that may have common problem from any above sources mentioned. Your title is a bit of a stretch covering not one but 2 generations of avid brake lines. What evidence that your shop offer to you other than your op. This is not an attempt to bust your balls but I want to know in case it turn out to be the case as your situation is quite specific to the location but not necessary climate.
    That's an awesome statement.... I'll talk to him today to see if he has talked to the other shops in the area. I don't really do business with them so I really don't have a rapport with them. As for Hope Set up's I haven't seen many here in Hawaii but I'm sure they are out there. They have also had problem's with Hayes set ups but not as many as the Avid's

    Basically Avid just sends a new set of brakes out (thats how I got my current elixr set up...) I think they are fully aware of the rampant problems we are having by now...
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  26. #26
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianBarbarian
    You are clueless dude, the health risk is putting people on the trail with brakes that are not functioning properly. If your conditions are truly so hardcore, then I guess the only solution if for the shop to stop selling Avid brakes but since other shops in areas with high humidity don't have the same problem I tend to doubt your story.

    In any case bleeding brakes is only a solution for air in the system, if the fluid is contaminated with water then bleeding will not solve the problem.
    fine I'm clueless...... End -O- discussion Mods please delete thread
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  27. #27
    Afric Pepperbird
    Reputation: dirt farmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,714
    Quote Originally Posted by CoppellStereo
    it seems the elixirs come with air in their initial bleeds so even when you get a set of brakes/a new bike, you will need to bleed them to get them to feel as they should. it's sad
    What's sad is that this is a complete generalization. I've not experienced this problem.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    370
    maybe all that hawaiian red dirt is clogging up the calipers?

  29. #29
    smartass
    Reputation: amish_matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    547
    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer
    What's sad is that this is a complete generalization. I've not experienced this problem.
    It is a generalization, but my Elixir's came with a crap bleed as well.

  30. #30
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by irv_usc
    maybe all that hawaiian red dirt is clogging up the calipers?
    Hahaha...... not much red dirt on the hilo side! It's more of a black.... No the dirt is not really the problem, But like my statement said above I'm CLUELESS!!!!
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  31. #31
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    3,816
    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer
    What's sad is that this is a complete generalization. I've not experienced this problem.
    I don't think many riders really know how to tell or care enough to ponder it. Its never enough air for the lever to go to the bar. Its just enough for the lever to be a little mushy, usually firming up after 2 or 3 pulls. You can definately get a much firmer and consistent feel out of avid brakes if you do the bleed procedure very carefully.

    I think avid brakes are victims of their own market domination. You hear more pissed off users because they are on so many bikes in the market.

  32. #32
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli
    I don't think many riders really know how to tell or care enough to ponder it. Its never enough air for the lever to go to the bar. Its just enough for the lever to be a little mushy, usually firming up after 2 or 3 pulls. You can definately get a much firmer and consistent feel out of avid brakes if you do the bleed procedure very carefully.

    I think avid brakes are victims of their own market domination. You hear more pissed off users because they are on so many bikes in the market.
    YES... !!!look @ 90% of the bikes on the market today from any manufacturer if there is hyd brakes its gonna be Avids (actually I see alot of Tektro's now days)
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,641
    I'll add that I've had a similar issue with my J5s, though not as severe. Over the course of a summer the brake fluid expands to the point that I need to let some out. I've pretty much had to do this once a year for the past 3 years. I also assumed it was moisture being absorbed into the brake fluid, so it would make sense that someplace tropical would experience the issue to a greater degree. I live in the upper midwest and the bike is stored inside, so my bike has much less exposure than others may.
    Warning: may contain sarcasm and/or crap made up in an attempt to feel important.

  34. #34
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by trailville
    I'll add that I've had a similar issue with my J5s, though not as severe. Over the course of a summer the brake fluid expands to the point that I need to let some out. I've pretty much had to do this once a year for the past 3 years. I also assumed it was moisture being absorbed into the brake fluid, so it would make sense that someplace tropical would experience the issue to a greater degree. I live in the upper midwest and the bike is stored inside, so my bike has much less exposure than others may.
    Yes The Tropical Climate.

    Had a Conversation with my "friend" today and he told me he reviewed the thread last night and said I forgot to bring up a few important points about our "so called" weather and riding conditions.

    1. The Condensation Rate: it will be raining in the morning and 62 degrees F, and by lunch time it will be 85 and sunny. this reeks havoc on many things here that are sensitive to sudden climate change which brings on condensation. Dot Fluid=Hygroscopic Newer Avid's with the 5.1 Fluid is even more Hygroscopic than Dot 3 or 4

    2. Elevation change : We are riding @ anything from 0 ft elevation to 4500 ft elevation and it may just take a few miles to do that. Couple that with our dew point and we have a recipe for Dot fluid expansion.
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  35. #35
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Ok No One Else Care to Chime in?
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: xmangox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    502
    The "custom" Elixer R SL's that came on my 2011 Specialized Epic Comp Carbon 29er make this horrible shreeeeeeek after like 30-40 min of riding. The rear brake has already been bled once and now I can completely pull the handle until it touches the bar, and it will not fully stop. I have no idea what the hell is doing on with it.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PG256's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    292
    From what I've seen Avid hydro's seem to have more issues than Shimano, Formula, Magura... That said they also have great warranty and will send out completely new systems with little questioning. They also give shops something for warranty labor which is nice.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tinshield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,084
    Just swapped out my Elixer R's with XT's. I put up with the Avid's for far too long. Sick of the noise, constant rubbing, etc.
    JRA Cycles
    My Trek HiFi
    NEMBA Racing
    SNEMBA
    I love learning new things in my pajamas.

  39. #39
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by xmangox
    The "custom" Elixer R SL's that came on my 2011 Specialized Epic Comp Carbon 29er make this horrible shreeeeeeek after like 30-40 min of riding. The rear brake has already been bled once and now I can completely pull the handle until it touches the bar, and it will not fully stop. I have no idea what the hell is doing on with it.
    Sounds like maybe you got some oil on them. Pull the pads and on a flat surface with some med grit sand paper (150) rub the friction side until you see fresh material, this will hopefully deglaze them a bit. Next take a bit more of that sand paper and clean the rotors. Try to give them a good cross hatch pattern (will help the pads bed in quicker). Hopefully the oil is not soaked through as you will need to get a new set of pads. I usually get that howl on the beginning of wet rides (almost every day) but thats due to water on the rotors.
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  40. #40
    AZ
    AZ is offline
    banned
    Reputation: AZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    19,201
    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    Ok No One Else Care to Chime in?



    No, you've had enough abuse.

  41. #41
    ballbuster
    Reputation: pimpbot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,702

    Are they open?

    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    It might be the 90+% humidity we have here on Hawaii island.... The levers just get tighter and tighter then you get constant rubbing on the rotors, if you leave it you get complete lock up! We are under the assumption that the dot fluid absorbs moisture out of the air. It's a constant battle! Most guys and gals have abandoned their avids for Magura set ups, but alot of us can't afford to go that route
    Every hydraulic disc brake I have owned (and no, I have not owned Avid hydraulics) are sealed systems with a little bladder to allow for pad wear. They are completely sealed off from the air. I've owned Magura, Shimano and Hope. They all basically work on the same principals. An as for humidity... I ride in hard rain all winter long. Doesn't get any more humid than that, other than jumping in a swimming pool.

    And your brake should never 'need' bleeding other than regular maintenance, and as long as they were bled correctly the first time. There is no reason for air to get in the lines unless you are losing fluid somewhere through a bad seal, master cylinder, slave cylinder, banjo fitting, etc..., or if they were not set up with the correct amount of fluid in the first place.

    There should be no 'absorbing moisture out of the air' because they are completely sealed off from the air. When you set them up and bleed them, part of the procedure is to displace air from the reservoir with the bladder that is shaped to dip into the fluid.

    Car brakes absorb moisture out of the air, because the brake fluid reservoir caps are vented. I don't know why car mfgs haven't put some kind of accordion shaped bladder in there like bike brakes, but they haven't.

    That is not to say you never need to change your brake fluid. You still get wear particles in there that need the occasional flushing out.

    I've had issues with just crud fouling up the seals, making the pistons sticky. My Maguras had a habit of not compensating for pad wear properly, and would suck in a big fat bubble at the caliper when the internal suction got too great. That made for some interesting descents, having the lever go flat to the bar with no front brake. The third time it happened, I dumped them and got Hopes.

    If your brakes are getting hot and expanding into the lever, it sounds like you're are no using their brakes well. You can't just grab them and pull the entire way down 2000 feet of descent and expect them to not get hot. Every brake I have owned does this. I find it happens less when I use sintered pads.Sounds to me like you need to pulse your brakes, letting the pad faces cool off a bit.


    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    Sounds like maybe you got some oil on them. Pull the pads and on a flat surface with some med grit sand paper (150) rub the friction side until you see fresh material, this will hopefully deglaze them a bit. Next take a bit more of that sand paper and clean the rotors. Try to give them a good cross hatch pattern (will help the pads bed in quicker). Hopefully the oil is not soaked through as you will need to get a new set of pads. I usually get that howl on the beginning of wet rides (almost every day) but thats due to water on the rotors.
    Sandpaper doesn't remove oil. You need to decontaminate them with some sort of zero residue solvent.

    I just decontaminated my Shimano XTR pads using Brake Kleen at first, then a propane torch to burn off any oil that soaked in. Worked great. Then I did what you suggest with the sandpaper, and they're good as new again. Good thing, too. Those pads are exactly two rides old and my hose banjo fitting was seeping. I wasn't looking forward to blowing another $30 on a set of pads.

    Also, if you got brake fluid on your pads, you should probably spend time figuring out where it came from, or you'll be doing that procedure again soon.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 04-11-2011 at 09:04 PM.

  42. #42
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS
    No, you've had enough abuse.
    at least I haven't been called a troll..... Sheesh you would think some of these posters had stake in SRAM or something!
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    587
    I purchased a pair of elixirs R last year around this time, the fronts and the rear wear both warranty once each within the first 3 months for air getting in the line. after the replacement no issues since.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,170
    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    Every hydraulic disc brake I have owned (and no, I have not owned Avid hydraulics) are sealed systems with a little bladder to allow for pad wear. They are completely sealed off from the air. I've owned Magura, Shimano and Hope. They all basically work on the same principals. An as for humidity... I ride in hard rain all winter long. Doesn't get any more humid than that, other than jumping in a swimming pool.

    And your brake should never 'need' bleeding other than regular maintenance, and as long as they were bled correctly the first time. There is no reason for air to get in the lines unless you are losing fluid somewhere through a bad seal, master cylinder, slave cylinder, banjo fitting, etc..., or if they were not set up with the correct amount of fluid in the first place.

    There should be no 'absorbing moisture out of the air' because they are completely sealed off from the air. When you set them up and bleed them, part of the procedure is to displace air from the reservoir with the bladder that is shaped to dip into the fluid.

    Car brakes absorb moisture out of the air, because the brake fluid reservoir caps are vented. I don't know why car mfgs haven't put some kind of accordion shaped bladder in there like bike brakes, but they haven't.

    That is not to say you never need to change your brake fluid. You still get wear particles in there that need the occasional flushing out.

    I've had issues with just crud fouling up the seals, making the pistons sticky. My Maguras had a habit of not compensating for pad wear properly, and would suck in a big fat bubble at the caliper when the internal suction got too great. That made for some interesting descents, having the lever go flat to the bar with no front brake. The third time it happened, I dumped them and got Hopes.

    If your brakes are getting hot and expanding into the lever, it sounds like you're are no using their brakes well. You can't just grab them and pull the entire way down 2000 feet of descent and expect them to not get hot. Every brake I have owned does this. I find it happens less when I use sintered pads.Sounds to me like you need to pulse your brakes, letting the pad faces cool off a bit.




    Sandpaper doesn't remove oil. You need to decontaminate them with some sort of zero residue solvent.

    I just decontaminated my Shimano XTR pads using Brake Kleen at first, then a propane torch to burn off any oil that soaked in. Worked great. Then I did what you suggest with the sandpaper, and they're good as new again. Good thing, too. Those pads are exactly two rides old and my hose banjo fitting was seeping. I wasn't looking forward to blowing another $30 on a set of pads.

    Also, if you got brake fluid on your pads, you should probably spend time figuring out where it came from, or you'll be doing that procedure again soon.
    How true...
    The old cars I grew up with had bladders under the stamped steel cover on the master. My service van has a vented cap. When I do a brake service I suck out the master, add new fluid before setting the new pads.

    My Julies has pistons that retract poorly so I pushed them out as far as I dared and cleaned the pistons. Relubed with pertosn 7.1, waped off the excess and pushed the pistons back in. Just the little fluid left after a good cleaning got to my pads and, well, you know... but the pistons now retract just fine.

    When someone inverts their bike and gets air into the system, the master had air in it. How one treats the master is important.

  45. #45
    T.W.O.
    Reputation: mimi1885's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8,158
    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    Ok No One Else Care to Chime in?
    Consider that a good thing, if there's a real problem at least it just confine to your location only

  46. #46
    Plant Eater
    Reputation: clj766's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by xmangox
    The "custom" Elixer R SL's that came on my 2011 Specialized Epic Comp Carbon 29er make this horrible shreeeeeeek after like 30-40 min of riding. The rear brake has already been bled once and now I can completely pull the handle until it touches the bar, and it will not fully stop. I have no idea what the hell is doing on with it.

    I also have been on a 2010 epic comp "demo bike" same brakes and mine are sticking pretty bad and also making noise. lots of contamination going on with us epic riders eh.
    Gen. 4 Raw Dillinger

  47. #47
    I Have Cookies
    Reputation: ae111black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot

    Sandpaper doesn't remove oil. You need to decontaminate them with some sort of zero residue solvent.

    Also, if you got brake fluid on your pads, you should probably spend time figuring out where it came from, or you'll be doing that procedure again soon.
    If it just gets a drop or two especially brake fluid you can just remove whatever got on the surface with the sandpaper.

    And Yes if they are totally saturated by oil or brake fluid you need to decontaminate them Via heat and or chemicals. Most time you would need to replace them cause @ 15-20$ a pair it's just not worth my time to do all the "cooking" procedures..
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

    ____
    Kimo

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Acero853's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    Yes The Tropical Climate.

    Had a Conversation with my "friend" today and he told me he reviewed the thread last night and said I forgot to bring up a few important points about our "so called" weather and riding conditions.

    1. The Condensation Rate: it will be raining in the morning and 62 degrees F, and by lunch time it will be 85 and sunny. this reeks havoc on many things here that are sensitive to sudden climate change which brings on condensation. Dot Fluid=Hygroscopic Newer Avid's with the 5.1 Fluid is even more Hygroscopic than Dot 3 or 4

    2. Elevation change : We are riding @ anything from 0 ft elevation to 4500 ft elevation and it may just take a few miles to do that. Couple that with our dew point and we have a recipe for Dot fluid expansion.
    No issues with my Elixirs but I do have a query: Why doesn't your friend with the bike shop and computer access post his own fu#$%ng questions?
    Barry
    Yeah well, that's just, ya' know, like, your opinion, man.

    _____________________________
    the cycling librarian(blog)

  49. #49
    ballbuster
    Reputation: pimpbot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,702
    Quote Originally Posted by 1niceride
    How one treats the master is important.
    That's what she said! BOOYAH!!!!!

  50. #50
    ballbuster
    Reputation: pimpbot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,702

    Cooking...

    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    If it just gets a drop or two especially brake fluid you can just remove whatever got on the surface with the sandpaper.

    And Yes if they are totally saturated by oil or brake fluid you need to decontaminate them Via heat and or chemicals. Most time you would need to replace them cause @ 15-20$ a pair it's just not worth my time to do all the "cooking" procedures..
    ... took me like 3 minutes. You take a torch and heat them up. They smoke like crazy. Keep torching them until they stop smoking. Let them cool for 10 minutes, Done. Sand with medium grit, clean with brake kleen, keep on moving. Don't forget the safety glasses.

    At $30 a set, I'm willing to spend a few minutes on it.... especially the night before a ride when the shops are closed.

    And yes, you have to clean off every drop. Those little drops are what cause howling and sometimes overheating. You're not going to clean anything off a porous surface by sanding it.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •