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  1. #1
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Marta SL's impressive in power. Same as Louise/FR...

    I have a LOT of Magura brakes now, all Louise and Louise FR. A guy on the Turner board just mentioned wanting to unload some Marta SL brakes and I picked them up (lightly used for $125 for the pair no less ) to give em a whirl. I took my Louise brakes off the 5-Spot, and bolted the Martas on. I went ahead and left the Louise rotors and adapters in place to compare apples to apples. The fork has a #15 adapter and a 190mm rotor in front. The rear bolts right up with no adapter and I am running 160mm rotor. I went out to bed the brakes in this afternoon (no real ride; went skate skiing earlier) and was surprised that they came up to basically exactly the same power as the Louises. I generally run Endurance pads, and the Martas may have Performance installed (forgot to look), though the two pads generally generate similar power in my experience.

    The rotors which came with the Martas are blue on the brake track and look kinda cooked. The calipers seem similar in weight to the Louises so I am guessing the heavier rotors Louise brakes use will make the diff in dealing with heat build-up.

    The surprising thing is that the rotor/pad clearance seems greater on the Martas than the Louises. Rub is easier to eliminate. Who woulda thunk it?
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  2. #2
    Daniel the Dog
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    I agree....

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    I have a LOT of Magura brakes now, all Louise and Louise FR. A guy on the Turner board just mentioned wanting to unload some Marta SL brakes and I picked them up (lightly used for $125 for the pair no less ) to give em a whirl. I took my Louise brakes off the 5-Spot, and bolted the Martas on. I went ahead and left the Louise rotors and adapters in place to compare apples to apples. The fork has a #15 adapter and a 190mm rotor in front. The rear bolts right up with no adapter and I am running 160mm rotor. I went out to bed the brakes in this afternoon (no real ride; went skate skiing earlier) and was surprised that they came up to basically exactly the same power as the Louises. I generally run Endurance pads, and the Martas may have Performance installed (forgot to look), though the two pads generally generate similar power in my experience.

    The rotors which came with the Martas are blue on the brake track and look kinda cooked. The calipers seem similar in weight to the Louises so I am guessing the heavier rotors Louise brakes use will make the diff in dealing with heat build-up.

    The surprising thing is that the rotor/pad clearance seems greater on the Martas than the Louises. Rub is easier to eliminate. Who woulda thunk it?
    The only reason the Louise FR I am riding now are more powerful is because I have 7" rotors on both ends. I also cannot tune out the rub on the front of my Louise FRs. I also think the Marta has better modulation. What do you think?

    A recent British mountain bike magazine rated the Marta as a better brake than the Louise FR. They stated the Marta has better modulation with nearly as much power. They stated the Louise FR are grabby at times. I'm not sure I agree with that but I don't think the Hayes Mags are off and on brakes.

    Killer deal!

    Jaybo

  3. #3
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I don't notice a difference in modulation yet. The lever is shorter on the Marta and this gives you a little less leverage. The master cylinder guts look the same, so I think the two systems push the same volume of fluid for a given lever throw. The calipers also seem to use the same pistons, so you would get the same piston movement for that lever throw. The pad's friction material is the same I am guessing, and offers the same area of contact with the rotors. Basically the Martas are the same mechanically as the Louises, just in a lighter package. The diff in heat resistance is probably the rotors. Even the 160mm rotors the Louise come with have a much more substantial brake track compared to the Marta 160's and so probably more heat absorption/cooling capacity. Even the fluid reservoir in the master cylinder looks to be similar in volume.

    The carbon lever scares me a little, and I may take them apart to reduce the small amount of lever slop where the lever blade's pin pushes on the master cylinder. Otherwise most of the performance seems to come from the rotor size.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  4. #4
    Bodhisattva
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    Am curious to hear your thoughts on Marta in reagards to fade & pump on long descents. As Jimi once explained it to me, the reservoir on Marta is not as large as Louise so there is less room for expansion when things heat up.
    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 03-06-2006 at 09:39 AM.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  5. #5
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Am curious to hear your thoughts on Marta in reagards to fade & pump on long descents. As Jimi once explained it to me, the reservoir on Marta is not as large as Louise so there is less room for expansion when things heat up.
    I doubt I will ever be able to answer that. I probably don't have a long enough sustained descent here at home to put the brakes through a real heat fade test, and when I travel I take the 6-Pack.

    If the brakes heated up and the fluid expanded beyond the reservoir's capacity to take the extra fluid, the caliper pistons would simply not retract fully and the pads would start dragging on the rotor (what you called pump?). I don't know how many ml of fluid the Louises can accept compared to the Martas, but just eyeballing the inside of the reservoirs, it actually looks similar. The membrane which seperates the fluid from the atmosphere is thicker on the Martas I think. That may eat some expansion room.

    Fade would be dependent on the ability of the caliper and rotor to conduct heat away from the pad/rotor interface and I don't think the fluid would take any real part in this regardless of the reservoir's ability to take expanding fluid. If the fluid circulated (acted as a coolant) somehow it could make a difference. The Marta caliper has a lower mass so is able to absorb less heat before leading to fluid expansion so may be given to both fade and pump, but as I said I don't think I will ever hit that point.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  6. #6
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    according to Jude from Magura, the rotor does make a big difference, but it also has a decent weight difference... so using the Marta with the Louise rotors erases some (but not all) of the weight savings of the Marta.

    As far as tuning out rotor rub on the Louise, have you gotten in there with a thin file gauge and tried to reset the pistons? Also, are you sure the rotor is dead straight? Morningstar makes some killer tools for truing up larger diameter rotors. Also, if you're working in the stand and there's a little rub left, take the bike for a good ride- I've started a ride with some rotor rubbing and by the time I'm halfway done, the problem has taken care of itself.

  7. #7
    No, that's not phonetic
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    I wasn't complaining about rub, just saying the Martas offer a tiny bit more pad retraction it appears.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  8. #8
    Daniel the Dog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan
    according to Jude from Magura, the rotor does make a big difference, but it also has a decent weight difference... so using the Marta with the Louise rotors erases some (but not all) of the weight savings of the Marta.

    As far as tuning out rotor rub on the Louise, have you gotten in there with a thin file gauge and tried to reset the pistons? Also, are you sure the rotor is dead straight? Morningstar makes some killer tools for truing up larger diameter rotors. Also, if you're working in the stand and there's a little rub left, take the bike for a good ride- I've started a ride with some rotor rubbing and by the time I'm halfway done, the problem has taken care of itself.
    You are absolutely right about the rubbing taking care of itself halfway through the ride. You are also right about the rotor having a millimeter or two of of wobble to it. Anyway, to get back on thread, the Magura brake is finicky with a constant need for some level of love to work at its peak. Not a complaint. It just is what it is. I do think Tscheezy is right about the Magura having the same power with equal rotors. But, the Louise FR does have better levers in my opinion (seem a bit beefier).

    Jaybo

  9. #9
    Daniel the Dog
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    I might have to look at the Marta

    My Louise FR's pretty much rub in the fron before every ride. I take 'em off, reset the pads, and go ride. They usually run fairly free by the end of the ride. Ride is over and they rub again. It is so much fun to do this before every ride. If the Marta's stop this pain in the butt process, I'm game. I want to ride, not screw with a brake system before every ride. My Hayes never rubbed unless they were covered in mud. I'm whining...I'll admit. I don't have a terminal disease, maybe a bad attitude, but certainly want nearly maintenance free brakes. I apologize ahead of time to the Magura homers on this site but I really don't want a MCM number Just kidding..cheap shot.

    Jaybo

    PS they do work well once they quit rubbing. Oh, they do make a vibrating noise 4 times or so during a ride. Big deal. I just want the rubbing to stop. Make it stop! Laughing.

  10. #10
    Bodhisattva
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    Question Jaybo.
    You state that your front rubs before every ride. Is this after removing your front wheel to load it onto a rack ?
    Life....the original terminal illness

  11. #11
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    i definitely don't have that problem before every ride, but when i do, i can usually fix it without taking the wheel or the brake off to mess with the pads. if you're using 180mm or larger rotors, try this: with a glove on (or a really clean hand) find the spot in the rotor that's rubbing, and bend it gently toward the pad it's rubbing on, then grab the brake hard a few times with the rotor in that position. that almost always works, and i know it's not as good as the brake being maintenance free, but once you get used to it, it only takes 30 seconds and you're ready to ride.

  12. #12
    Daniel the Dog
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Question Jaybo.
    You state that your front rubs before every ride. Is this after removing your front wheel to load it onto a rack ?
    I reset the pistons when I do that; however, you could be on to something because my QRs are never completely consistantly tightened. This changes the position of the wheel a touch. What I'm struggling is how to find a happy medium for these brakes require perfect alignment to run quiet and not rub. With Hayes, Avid, or other slot systems, you just loosen the bolts and either eye the caliper and rotor or just loosen the bolt and tighten to align. I prefer this design. Some hate slot systems.

    I need to true the rotor also. It wobbles probably 1-2mm. I'll see how bad I can warp it with a monkey wrench .

    By the way, I'll admit, I have a bone to pick with Magura because my Marta's were such a pain. Nonetheless, they flat works as well as anything except Shimano (sorry Magura).

    Jaybo

  13. #13
    Daniel the Dog
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    Good tip

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan
    i definitely don't have that problem before every ride, but when i do, i can usually fix it without taking the wheel or the brake off to mess with the pads. if you're using 180mm or larger rotors, try this: with a glove on (or a really clean hand) find the spot in the rotor that's rubbing, and bend it gently toward the pad it's rubbing on, then grab the brake hard a few times with the rotor in that position. that almost always works, and i know it's not as good as the brake being maintenance free, but once you get used to it, it only takes 30 seconds and you're ready to ride.
    I will give it a shot.

    Jaybo

  14. #14
    Bodhisattva
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    Jaybo,
    I suspect operator error, not a brake defect.

    You need quick nuts
    http://www.1upusa.com/quicknuts.html
    Life....the original terminal illness

  15. #15
    Daniel the Dog
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    I agree....

    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Jaybo,
    I suspect operator error, not a brake defect.

    You need quick nuts
    http://www.1upusa.com/quicknuts.html
    But, this is the same response I got on my Marta's a couple years ago. I finally, after a year, sent the rear one to Magura, and it was a bad brake. They replaced it. I appreciate the link to quick nuts; however, I'm a bit uneasy about the name of them

    Jaybo

  16. #16
    Bodhisattva
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    Kidding aside, sounds like the problem you're experiencing is from tightening your front QR at varying tensions. The quicknut is $3.99 and is a quick & easy fix.
    Life....the original terminal illness

  17. #17
    Daniel the Dog
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    I'm almost talked into plain old XTs

    I played with those Magura's for 3 hours tonight. Still rub! Urg! The rear one has never rubbed one second. So, I can't believe it is my setup. I have changed a couple flats too. The pads in the front don't spread enough to allow the rotor to run drag free. F 'em!

    Mike at Universal told me to go XT. Idiot proof with the best levers and modulation I have ever tried. I'm obivously not smart enough for Magura.

    Jaybo

  18. #18
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    That's ironic

    When I was working at a shop, I saw probably more XT discs than anything except Hayes 9's, but I installed quite a few Maguras as well. In my experience, I almost always had trouble getting XT's to run drag fee- I had the exact problem you're having with Maguras... not enough space between the pads. I even talked people into Maguras when they couldn't get their XT's to run right, and no one ended up complaining. But you're experience is your experience, so I'd say go XT if you've had good luck with them. Also, don't forget about El Caminos. Same drag free performance as with Hayes Mags, but better modulation.

  19. #19
    No, that's not phonetic
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    The only real dragging issues I have had with Maggies was if I did a bleed with well-worn pads and ended up overfilling the system. The pistons would then not retract enough when new pads were installed. Using the yellow travel spacer during bleeds fixes this (not doing this was a goof on my part). I have Maguras on 4 bikes and none of them rub.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  20. #20
    Daniel the Dog
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    I was impulsive....

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    The only real dragging issues I have had with Maggies was if I did a bleed with well-worn pads and ended up overfilling the system. The pistons would then not retract enough when new pads were installed. Using the yellow travel spacer during bleeds fixes this (not doing this was a goof on my part). I have Maguras on 4 bikes and none of them rub.
    I bought a new pair of Magura Marta SLs from Performance. It sounds like you got a killer deal but I got 'em for $315. Not bad. I will probably sell 'em on Ebay and make a few bucks and later use the points to buy something else. Any reason to keep the Marta SLs and sell the FRs? Any difference between them besides a small amount of weight and power?

    I will let some oil out and see if that helps.

    Jaybo

  21. #21
    No, that's not phonetic
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    To get oil out, push the pistons in as far as you want them to go, then rotate the lever's reservoir to be horizontal and loosen the tiny torx bolts on the reservoir. If there is extra oil in the system, it will ooze out from below the res cap. You can then immediately snug the cap back on and not bleed or anything.

    I don't know yet if the Martas offer anything over the Louises. I was just surprised at how similar they were, actually.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  22. #22
    I-S
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    When using the standard wavy rotor, how much weight difference is there between louise and marta though?

    Magura's numbers bear out what you say... the piston sizes are the same in the marta and louise systems, and magura claim 6.2ms^2 deceleration for 160mm louise vs 6.0ms^2 for marta/sl.

    Since the piston sizes are the same, that suggests you could use the marta caliper with the louise lever (or vice versa). That would get the reservoir volume back (if indeed that is a difference), but obviously the weight saving involved in changing from a louise caliper to a marta caliper is pretty small if everything else remains the same... it might give this greater pad clearance though.

  23. #23
    No, that's not phonetic
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    The Marta master cylinders, lines, and calipers taken together are about 50g lighter than the Louises per brake. The rotors are lighter too, but I am not counting those.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  24. #24
    Daniel the Dog
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    Mine no longer drag :)

    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    The only real dragging issues I have had with Maggies was if I did a bleed with well-worn pads and ended up overfilling the system. The pistons would then not retract enough when new pads were installed. Using the yellow travel spacer during bleeds fixes this (not doing this was a goof on my part). I have Maguras on 4 bikes and none of them rub.
    I finally said screw it and bleed them myself. The LBS did it twice and was overfilling 'em. The right amount of oil created a bigger gap, so my rotor doesn't rub anymore. I also found a guy at another LBS who is skilled at working on them. He gave me some tips.

    I'm done with LBS mechanics. I can do 90% of my own wrenching but some stuff I can't do: facing tabs. I don't have the tool. I thought the LBS could handle the job. Wrong!

    I might sell the Marta's to the homers on the Turner board for just what I paid for them. I need to buy an ad first.

    Jaybo

    PS One tip I learned is to slightly loosen the resevior lid, push the pads apart until they are back all the way, and then tighten the lid up. It removes the last bit of air and puts the right amount of oil in the system. Worked for me.

  25. #25
    No, that's not phonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I finally said screw it and bleed them myself. The LBS did it twice and was overfilling 'em.
    Good for you. My bikes have not seen the inside of a bike shop in many, many years. With practice you can do a better job than most shop rats out there. Face it, it's your bike, so you just care more. Buying some specialized tools like headset presses and learning how to use them is an investment in your autonomy.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

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