Magura Louise vs Juicy 7 -- which one to get?
I just got a new bike and need some advice.
Both of these brakes, everyone seems to like/love whatever. Weight is the close to the same. It appears that most like the Magura for the feel and setup. The Avids seem to be the choice for maintenance and ease of setup.
Please feel free to chime in on what you do or dont like about either. I am upgrading from V's to disc at this point so I have no clue to what to expect.
Proud Tribe member since 1992 - looking for better singletrack to be ridden year round
I have the louise, and have not used the juicys, just so you know my pov. I've tried the lever on bikes in the shop and a friend's bike with the juicy 7s.
1) Lever Feel
The Juicys have a very solid lever feel... once the pads touch the disc there's little movement. The maguras have a softer feel once the pads are on the disc. I actually prefer the firmer feel, having come from Magura HS22s. Coming from Vs you might prefer the softer feel of the Louise. With a really good bleed and braided lines the Maguras aren't soft (certainly not like V-brakes are!), but not ultimately the firmest out there (braided lines don't make a huge difference btw).
Avid seem to have this one. I've not played with them, but everything I read is about how good the CPS is. The Louise can take a while to set up, and like any conventional IS mount brake they are picky about frame/fork alignment being right. If you have faced or stainless mounts (ie magura forks) then it shouldn't be problematic. Once you've got them set up the louise can be left untouched for years.
Again, Avid seem to have a somewhat easier bleed system. The Maguras you have to get it right, and tend to spill some amount of oil around the place. However, spilling magura fluid won't eat you, your clothes or your bike, unlike DOT fluid. Additionally, you could well not need to bleed the Louise... ever (even when shortening lines). The Avids must be bled periodically due to the behaviour of DOT fluid.
Both are good. Either one will stop you and stop you well. Either one is quite capable of working nicely for years, or either one is quite capable of giving you headaches. Some love one, some love the other. I'm happy with my Louise/FR.
This is like asking what size pants to buy and not giving us ANY idea how big you are.
Tell us more about your trails, riding conditions, weather, etc and maybe we can help more. I have owned both but I would not suggest one over the other without knowing more about you...
If you're going from Vees to discs, you'll love either one of these.
Originally Posted by yetirich
Louises modulate very good. Juicys are very on/off. Both have about equal stopping power. Louises run quieter. The Juicys look really cheap, the forging process by which they are made makes them look really crappy, in my opinion. New Louises have bite adjust which works better than Avid's. I prefer the lever feel of Louises. Others prefer Juicys.
Final nail in the coffin, Louises run on mineral oil, which won't hurt your hands nor your paint job, nor your house when you spill fluid during the bleed. DOT fluid is hydrophilic, meaning, it absorbs water. Over time, with enough water absorbed, the boiling point of the fluid is much reduced, speeding up brake fade. No such thing with hydrophobic mineral oil.
Maguras a tad ackward to bleed, not sure how the Juicys are bled, but I would not want to mess around with DOT fluid, regardless.
Louises are German enginirum!
P.S. Tcheezy, there you are! I was wondering where you were getting your forum fix at.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
-- Einstein, Albert
With the '07 Louises you can forget of one of the most common complains about Maguras, which was difficulty of installation and set-up.
Now they install as your typical Hayes, Shimano, Avid, etc. as they quit the IS mounts for PM's with adapters. No more shimming. They were a breeze to set-up on mine.
The bleed process of the Maggies is cave-age, but stupid simple and if you spill the oil, nothing happens to your paint. Just make sure your brake pads are not around.
Oh... and the warranty is 5 years. You'll probably end-up swapping brakes before running out of warranty.
Avid is said to have a very good CS, but you know... Magura is the benchmark there.
No squeal on Maggies under virtually no conditions.
Edit... on the installation ease... the Avid CPS may look like having the edge, but having the Maguras and older Shimanos with PM's and adapters and comparing them to some Avids I had, the CPS is tricky. It actually requires more attention as you may cause the caliper to disalign when torqueing down the bolts. Not that you need to be super-precise, but it certainly takes more attention than the Shimano's/Magura's where you just tighten the bolts down and you're done.
Last edited by Warp; 02-22-2007 at 04:42 PM.
I have owned both
I don't have time now to go into a huge response; however, here is my quicky review.
Originally Posted by yetirich
The Maggies are very smooth with less overall power for a given roto sizer. Good power though. They are super quiet 90% of the time. I don't like the overall ergonomics of the levers. I also hated the shim design. New ones are post mount I hear. Good brake. I had some unwanted rubbing on the rotor at times. Great customer service!
J7s are very powerful with great ergonomics. Kind of cheap with a Pacific Rim look. Pads last a long time. Easy to set up. Noisy at times, especially in wet. Customer services is good. They modulate well. I disagree they are on/off brakes.
I like both pretty well. Maggies gave me more grief. I'm looking at the new Hopes. Love the bling factor in that great looking brake. No stress either choice. I got my Maggies for $240 and my J7 for $275. Cheap! Good luck.
I have the juicy 5s, and the louise bats on 2 separate bikes.
Personally I think the Louise levers are ugly, and the lever reach doesn't get close to
the bar enough.. if you have short hands, then you may have to reach a little bit. I have long fingers, but still prefer to run my levers fairy close.
I prefer the juicy's initial power and ergonomics, but I've only had the Louise for a ltitle while so
it could be that i'm used the front end power in the initial squeeze in the avids
My maguras had some major leaking problems at first, but after replacing the entire lever assembly, and olives, they were fine. Their CS is awesome.. and the brakes are nice and quiet and don't rub at all.. yet. The lever is also very solid. Depending on what you want, you do have to squeeze more to get to the louise's power. One small thing that kind of irks me is how if you squeeze the lever, then let go if them quickly, the release spring is pretty fast so they snap back to full lever reach, and if you squeeze again, they click (clicking is from the lever reach screw) before coming back to the original reach position. But when you are riding .. you don't really do this anyway.
However, my juicy's pistons are totally sticking in the back and therefore the lever is very slow
at retracting back if you squeeze quickly a bunch of times. I have cleaned and oiled the pistons and they'd be better for a while (30 minutes), then go back to their sticky ways.
My levers also developed A LOT of vertical wiggle.. almost as if those rubber rings were thining down or something.
Juicys are also very noisy in the wet.. i think in my recent group ride of 20 people in foggy weather, I was the only one running juicys.. and my brakes were the only ones squealing.
So between the two... i would go with Louise.
When the juicys were working, they were great. But I will be swapping them out for Formula K24 very soon.
Last edited by unfluid one; 02-28-2007 at 09:46 AM.
I've never tried Louis's but I love my Juicy 7's. You have to buy their bleed kit, but it works well and is easy to use and set up.
Rain or Shine
I prefer Formula K24's. They are dependable. They are built strong (with a 23mm piston). They mount easily and they are durable. The pad contact lever works much bette than the red dial on the Juicy and it won't break when the you crash.
Last but not least, it's Italian and not Chinese or German which in this case is for better.
I understand that being them Italian is better than Chinese.... but better than German?
Originally Posted by zkampyman
I would say they're on par at least.
Now the Louises are 22mm at the slave piston, but that's not all that makes a brake. Then there's the dia of the Master, pad and rotor compound and contact path, caliper forging, etc.
As for the lever not breaking... that's not much of a good thing per se. I would prefer the lever to break before the Master Cylinder to get damaged.
Now Louises mount as the other two and are backed up by a 5 year warranty, that speaks of some confidence of Magura for durability.
However, the Formula's are nice brakes... Actually, the only other brand I'd consider apart from Magura.
Add Hope Mono Mini of M4's to your list. Prices are reasonable, bleeding is the easiest out of all of them, sintered pads can be used, and well made out of metal. Got an 07 and an 06 on both my bikes.
Going for a ride......
If your preferance is for mineral oil but you can't afford Formula then consider the Shimano lineup as well.
There's no app for this.
watch that back piston
I just went thru a lengthy process as my new juicy 5's seized up in the rear. Factory fix failed, they finally gave up and sent me a new brake for the rear.
I'm shopping now for new Louises having had many Maggie sets in past years. Never had this kind of problem with them. I'd get some Gustavs (man I LOVE those brakes) except they are a bit much for the old XC bike.
Jim MCM #11
Now with 3 more inches!
I just installed the Louise B.A.T Carbons and they were super easy to install and set up. On a par with, if not easier, than my Avid BB7s. Shortening the hoses is really easy. Only had a short ride on them so far, so I don't know about power. Quality of construction seems to be excellent, and they come with a proper manual.
The levers aren't the sexiest out there, but the reach and bite adjustment are nice. Maybe not so good for smaller hands though.
Glad to know!!
Originally Posted by tigerdog
Now with 3 more inches!
Can't believe they came from Mexico overnight. DHL was awesome.
Originally Posted by Warp
One thing I didn't realise until it was too late, was the caliper hose fittings are different. I guess they were set up for UK style. So now I have a banjo on the front and a straight fitting on the back. Doh! No biggie, I suppose, but maybe when I eventually bleed them I'll get a new banjo hose to put on the rear and move the straight one to the front. Of course, it's a good excuse to get braided hoses too.
Now with 3 more inches!
It's pretty much the same for me. Just seemed they would go the other way round.
Originally Posted by Warp
One thing I didn't find until I rode it, was the levers rub against my LX rapidfires blocking downshifts. No problem, just had to rotate the shifters a fraction so they're not flush against the brake levers.
Have had both
started my new bike build with the J7's hoping they fulfill the promise... must say i was disappointed. bought Louises for half the price and double the power and modulation. the J7's also made alot of pumping noise that was kinda making me feel uncomfortable every time i applied the brake hard in a steep section.
i am about 220 and ride mild aggressive, the J7 rear break 180mm rotor couldn't stop at the level i wanted going down hill - was pretty scary. the magura's can stop anywhere/anytime... i do feel some fade in the braking power in long descents though (4 miles +)
the louise's are by far the best brake i had (didn't try formula's yet though)
On average, how often (kms/weeks/months?) would you suggest the Juicys need to be bled?
Originally Posted by Isaac Sibson